[01:31:24] <Juesto8050[m]>	 its fixed?
[01:31:59] <Juesto8050[m]>	 the aposthrophe issue i mean, also it seems to happen with things that come from irc side
[01:53:37] <Dinoguy10003726[>	 keep in mind this is a three-way bridge between Discord, Matrix, and IRC
[01:53:50] <Dinoguy10003726[>	 apostrophes might work fine from one but not the other
[03:52:07] <Shaun>	 I have a backup (mysqldump) from a wiki, is there a way to tell what version MW it was used with?
[03:52:52] <Reedy>	 Kinda, yeah
[03:53:20] <Reedy>	 You'd have to compare what tables are there.. And then potentially columns in those tables
[03:54:24] <Reedy>	 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Database_layout can help
[03:57:13] <Shaun>	 I think that actually worked out quite well, thanks.  I'm 99% sure it was an LTS because I set it up in the first place, so that narrows it down pretty well
[03:57:25] <Shaun>	 I do have bot_passwords and I don't have ip_changes, so probably 1.27
[03:58:01] <Reedy>	 1.27 was an LTS, so yeah, that sounds potentially right
[04:00:55] <Shaun>	 I still need to go back and get a better backup, since I didn't get the uploads folder either, and they'll notice that.  but at least with this I can make a start on dragging the database up to date while I'm waiting
[04:02:06] <Reedy>	 1.35 should upgrade from 1.27....
[05:48:05] <bawolff>	 I'm thinkig of backporting the require( "strict" ) lua stuff. Everyone copies wikipedia templates, so it would be good to have forwards compatibility
[06:29:29] <Izno[m]>	 bawolff, I mentioned that to legoktm on Discord based on some comments we got here.
[06:32:02] <bawolff>	 Izno[m]: its backported now
[06:32:15] <bawolff>	 So many communication channels!
[06:32:42] <Izno[m]>	 😄
[06:33:46] <Izno[m]>	 Probably wouldn't hurt to pull some of his other feature adds back too.
[06:35:27] <bawolff>	 Yeah maybe. Especially for the upcoming 1.39 LTS release at least
[06:37:16] <bawolff>	 hmm, i think mw.loadJsonData() is the only one
[06:37:36] <Izno[m]>	 Might be.
[06:38:51] <Izno[m]>	 Oh I missed those backports because I'm apparently not watching Scribunto, smh
[06:42:14] <Izno[m]>	 bawolff https://blog.legoktm.com/2022/10/09/a-short-scribunto-sprint.html
[06:42:41] <Izno[m]>	 One or two of those deliberately not backported, but the others might be reasonable.
[06:43:21] <bawolff>	 There was an interesting conversation on the mwstake room on matrix where Jeroen wanted to be able to access unparsed template arguments in lua. At first i didn't like that idea, but thinking about it i kind of think it'd be cool. You could e.g. use lua to read syntaxes that are not wiki, like make a markdown parser, or do some sort of macro expansion on wikisyntax before parsing it
[06:43:32] <bawolff>	 Although such a feature would probably be controversial
[06:45:17] <bawolff>	 I don't think most of those need to be backported. Maybe the cursor one
[06:47:01] <Izno[m]>	 I know I've been in a few conversations on en and elsewhere where we've wanted access to unparsed args. I think the reason that wasn't done already was because of intermodule communication.
[06:47:40] <bawolff>	 How would that allow intermodule communication?
[06:49:24] <Izno[m]>	 Idk
[06:49:31] <Izno[m]>	 Did go looking and found https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T140489#2466977
[06:50:09] <Izno[m]>	 Probably "I don't want to touch a 20k line file" is the next best reason 🤭
[06:50:21] <Izno[m]>	 For MVP*
[06:51:19] <bawolff>	 In the parser, the expand method contains a second argument, which allows you to go in the other direction (to unparse), although its a bit internalish, and i don't think it works 100% of the time
[06:52:17] <bawolff>	 So in theory we could expose $frame->expand( $node, PPFRAME::RECOVER_ORIG ), although im not clear which situations precisely it works
[06:52:37] <bawolff>	 And if people want to expose something so internalish, especially given I don't know what the plans are with integrating parsoid
[06:53:03] <Izno[m]>	 On a tangent, we do have getContent as well, which has mostly served for a lot of the same uses that raw args would.
[06:53:19] <bawolff>	 hmm, that's true
[06:56:42] <Izno[m]>	 > most don't need to be backported
[06:56:42] <Izno[m]>	 Json in Module space by default and loadJsonData would be the two I'd pick from that list besides require strict.
[06:57:03] <Izno[m]>	 The others look minor
[06:57:52] <bawolff>	 If people are copying modules from wikipedia via special:export, the default probably wouldn't matter since it would be overriden in import anyways
[06:58:34] <Izno[m]>	 I've heard of people having problems importing alt content model pages.
[06:58:50] <Izno[m]>	 "non default"?
[06:59:26] <bawolff>	 I just mean, that in theory its supposed to take the content model from the xml file, where the json module patch was just changing what the default would be if you created a new page
[06:59:36] <Izno[m]>	 Yes
[06:59:47] <bawolff>	 So in principle that shouldn't help anyone importing
[07:00:08] <Izno[m]>	 Not everyone uses the special page. 🙂
[07:00:41] <bawolff>	 ugh, everyone renamed everything in scribunto
[07:00:55] <Izno[m]>	 Yay
[07:07:51] <bawolff>	 Well that was a fail of a backport
[07:18:06] <bawolff>	 ok, that's better
[07:19:19] <bawolff>	 The fact that jenkins-bot didn't flag that as totally broken is kind of concerning
[07:22:09] <bawolff>	 And then when i run locally i get 515 test failures :(
[07:45:27] <Izno[m]>	 😦
[07:49:16] <p858snake>	 Platonides: I heard you like phpmyadmin, so I put a phpmyadmin installation in your installation 
[08:05:28] <marvnc>	 why is it that other languages seem to have a prettier layout for wikipedia than in english?
[08:06:32] <bawolff>	 marvnc: There is some work going around to replace the main skin. It is being tested on some languages but not all of them
[08:06:51] <marvnc>	 is there a way to enable it in english?
[08:07:13] <bawolff>	 marvnc: Just to confirm, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/?useskin=vector-2022 is what you mean by is prettier?
[08:07:22] <marvnc>	 ah yep
[08:07:25] <bawolff>	 marvnc: You can enable it in Special:Preferences under skins
[08:07:29] <marvnc>	 thanks!
[08:07:57] <bawolff>	 marvnc: There's also a special:GlobalPreferences which lets you change it for all languages at once
[08:08:57] <marvnc>	 ooh
[08:09:02] <bawolff>	 marvnc: If you're interested in the politics of it all, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Deployment_of_Vector_(2022)
[08:09:30] <marvnc>	 interesting
[08:10:10] <Izno[m]>	 > politics summarized
[08:10:10] <Izno[m]>	 Change bad
[08:10:29] <bawolff>	 'tis true
[08:10:47] <bawolff>	 Bring back nostalgia.wikipedia.org
[08:10:54] <bawolff>	 The one true skin
[08:11:13] * bawolff actually likes original vector
[08:11:45] <marvnc>	 wow
[08:13:01] <p858snake>	 bawolff: just bribe ashley to rewrite nostalgia as a modern skin then >.>
[08:13:58] <bawolff>	 I never understood why we removed it from main mediawiki. https://nostalgia.wikipedia.org is running modern mediawiki, so the skin has to be compatible anyways
[08:14:41] <bawolff>	 https://nostalgia.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Version omg its so ugly. I love it. What is that yellow colour?
[09:05:32] <Izno[m]>	 Look at recent changes, our poor yellow has been spoiled by /grey/
[09:09:21] <bawolff>	 lol, very sad
[10:30:33] <Deus>	 165 oppose vs. 145 support
[10:35:24] <bawolff>	 yeah, but its unclear if this issue is being treated as a democracy or not
[10:41:10] <Archimedes1560[m>	 Vector 2022 is ugly
[10:41:10] <Archimedes1560[m>	 And dumb
[10:41:11] <Archimedes1560[m>	 Imagine collapsing options into 1 button when you have like 50% free space left
[10:41:36] <Archimedes1560[m>	 * space left anyway
[10:43:16] <Archimedes1560[m>	 And it's not like it has any more options in the first place
[10:45:28] <ashley>	 much like emperors and kings back in the day, some things just are above criticism today :^) (whether they *should* be or not is, of course, an entirely different debate!)