[14:41:09] [1/2] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/User:AnimalCollectivePorn [14:41:10] [2/2] Unwanted username [14:41:48] @CVT ^ [14:42:28] I feel like this is just barely acceptable, though some may disagree [14:47:34] hell no [14:47:36] [1/5] I find it offensive "Porn" should not be used in a username, especially with another word that suggest the type of porn. [14:47:36] [2/5] Animal+Porn [14:47:37] [3/5] Child+Porn [14:47:37] [4/5] Feet+Porn [14:47:37] [5/5] ... etc [14:48:14] I should not even have to explain this 🤦🏻‍♂️ [14:49:42] It's quite possible that the username is a reference to a band named "Animal Collective": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Collective [14:56:54] So if a user with "1Anal Cunt" is created, you accept that as it is a band name? [14:59:51] In that case, the band name itself would be offensive; the Animal Collective username is only problematic because of the addition of "porn" after it (which does have SFW uses, BTW) [15:00:38] I disagree. Animal Porn is a real thing, and is offensive. Placing Collective in between doesn't make it less so. [15:03:09] Shouldn't even defend that [15:05:30] [1/2] If the username were just "AnimalPorn", then that would be an obvious lock. However, English is a fickle language - one word can make a phrase go from benign to unimaginably offensive, so it'd only make sense for an additional word making a phrase go from offensive to OK. [15:05:30] [2/2] To be absolutely clear here, I am only defending the username because it happens to be the name of a (presumably) well-known band combined with "porn" resulting in one with unfortunate implications. I do not support bestiality in any way, shape, or form [15:06:06] _looks at Reddit and countless subreddits with "Porn" in themsuch as SpacePorn, BotanicalPorn, WaterPorn, SeaPorn, EarthPorn and all of them SFW_ [15:06:39] @rodejong I see where you're coming from, but I disagree that this username is offensive enough to warrant action [15:12:26] [1/4] We are an international community with a lot of languages that have no other meaning for porn than "porn". Many fora and even Wikipedia doesn't allow such user names. [15:12:26] [2/4] We are not the English Language Miraheze. We are Miraheze where we have to take height for our international users. [15:12:26] [3/4] And quite honestly... Reddit is really not a standard we want to lay the bar on! We should have a much higher standard than that! [15:12:27] [4/4] I'll take this upstream [15:13:43] We also shouldn't be complete puritans for the sake of "but it might be offensive to someone"; this is how authoritarianism starts [15:36:01] [1/4] No, that is where respect for other people starts. [15:36:01] [2/4] What you accept on your own wiki, is your own thing, but when it is a large international community, you accept that others have a more strict view. [15:36:01] [3/4] If my town square has a neighbourhood party and there are a lot of muslims there, I won't start a barbeque, because even though I have the right too, I respect my neighbours beliefs, and don't want to offend them. [15:36:02] [4/4] If you do that anyway, you are considered selfish, without any respect. [15:40:17] The converse also applies - if there's someone at a restaurant eating ham, the Muslim sitting next to them should respect their beliefs [15:45:06] I don't think an argument on where the border should be with what constitutes "offensive" in context of Miraheze policies can be resolved with barbecue analogy, because ultimately what is "offensive" is entirely subjective and one could with success make arguments about how their own stricter worldview disallows references to homosexuality in nicknames and therefore Miraheze community should disallow using "gay" in the nickname. This discussion is... [15:45:12] ... about the line the community establishes for itself on what kind of things are allowed or not. And I'm sorry to say, but offensiveness is not an objective thing. There still needs to be a discussion about it, but I feel it's not as black and white as you are trying to make it rodejong. [16:01:53] The Usename Policy states "offensive" [16:02:30] Agent's comment does not imply that the username is offensive - it was said in the context of blacklisting new usernames containing "porn" (which has been done) [16:02:55] I shouldn't have transcluded it here, and deleted it again. [16:03:15] Again, what is considered "offensive"? As I and Frisk have said, what constitutes offensive varies from person to person [16:03:58] Again. We are an international community. Not an English language community, even though most communication is done in English. [16:04:10] You need to take that in considereation [16:04:42] In almost no other language is "porn" not considered offensive. [16:05:21] Thus what is offensive, is what internationally is considered to be offensive [16:05:42] Like the F* word [16:06:04] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/porn - the two non-English languages that have their own section make no mention of it being offensive [16:06:35] WOW. well that must be how the whole world perceives it [16:07:01] Where's your proof to the contrary? [16:08:00] [1/4] Yes, the word "porn" and its direct translations are generally considered offensive, obscene, or highly inappropriate in many languages and cultures, similar to its status in English. [16:08:01] [2/4] Linguistic Roots: The term "pornography" originates from Greek, where it was originally used to describe writing about prostitutes, but its usage quickly expanded to include "objectionable or obscene material". [16:08:01] [3/4] Translations: Direct translations, such as pornografía in Spanish or Portuguese, and equivalent terms in Asian languages like 淫穢作品 (yínhuì zuòpǐn) in Chinese, refer specifically to sexually explicit material that is often taboo. [16:08:01] [4/4] Contextual Offensive: While often used in English to describe any explicit material, in many cultures, the term is viewed as directly referencing immoral, immodest, or exploitative material. [16:08:29] Where's the AI's proof for its statement? [16:10:55] [1/2] You can look it up yourself can't you? LOL [16:10:55] [2/2] https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/english-language-learning/porn [16:13:47] I'm not going to continue this conversation any further since it appears you're just interested in one-upping me rather than holding a civilized debate [16:14:59] Sure, you tell yourself that. I am not upping you anything. I just state that most of the community would find it weird that such username is allowed, as most do not have English as first language. [16:15:30] And as Agent stated ... It is good to have that word filtered [17:03:56] [1/6] A few of us discussed so the logic on the username issue is this. [17:03:56] [2/6] Miraheze supports a very wide range of not just different language speakers but also types of communities. In Wikipedia that name would not fly. If Wikipedia was a Miraheze wiki it would have every right to reject a member based on that name. Miraheze is global in the sense it still supports more 'spicy' communities to whom the vague inclusion of 'porn' in a username is not offensive [17:03:56] [3/6] . When acting globally we consider that by and large people stick to their spaces. This is why we are ultimately very open on names we accept and are reluctant to hit for offensiveness. It's a fact of life all volunteers will encounter and need to wrangle with this array unless it's in a known category the meta community or volunteering base have rejected. [17:03:57] [4/6] Relatedly, when determining 'offense', we do not judge by what might possibly offend someone. We're more concerned if the only people who'd tolerate it are the kind we wouldn't allow on miraheze anyway. It's why, as Tali was getting at, we will give more slack to a probable reference to a spicy band where there isn't a more popular overriding meaning, while if you stick 'child' in th [17:03:57] [5/6] e name, it becomes something universally unacceptable. If it was merely 'animal' plus 'porn' it would be much more likely to be hit. [17:03:57] [6/6] I don't think its fair for Tali to assume Ro is 'just interested in one-upping' here. Ro is a user with strong opinions and you are both coming from radically opposite perspectives. In this case Ro, I believe your read, despite accounting for the international community and general definitions, is missing the other nuance I hope I've summarized properly. [17:04:10] [1/2] Now as action goes, [17:04:10] [2/2] The word porn has been added to our filter on username creation due to a clear potential for misuse, but we do not find it inherently 'offensive' per above under the intended guidance of policy. This action is more along the lines of an ip block on VPNs for the chance of their abuse rather than an absolute lock on an individual (name). [19:19:46] [1/2] Although I disagree with this, I will accept that. But I believe that the policy should make that nuance more clear. Or at least copy a similar explanation to the talk page. [19:19:47] [2/2] The policy speaks of "is offensive" without explaining what is, and what isn't, and is open two the whim of the admin or steward. I understand that it is hard to give a clear line. But it is difficult for me as non-native English speaker to find what is and what is not acceptable. [19:21:32] I hope you can add a little explainer to the policy talk page. [19:26:54] I'd be cool transcribing all that pretty much as is with a few edits to the talk page [20:32:11] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Talk:Username_Policy#From_Discord I hope that is posted accurately! [20:51:48] Raidarr's actually working on a cleaner version of it approved by fellow stewards, may end up replacing once he's got that sorted [20:57:23] its more or less what I was going to get at tbh [20:57:32] I'll need to look closer when I'm less blurry [21:05:16] I have no issue if you remove my version when you're done. I thought you made it as a suggestion to me [21:05:26] I clearly misread that [21:05:29] sorry [21:05:37] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/User:UChihaItachi9126 [21:06:08] No link, but I feel that could come? Not sure if this is spam or not? @CVT [21:06:44] I'm not familiar with it [21:06:45] Definitely looks like spam to me. [21:07:16] It’s weird but yeah safe to cook [21:08:33] Nah, it was very ambiguously worded, no fault of anybody [21:09:02] The pages have been cooked (in other words, they're gone now). [21:15:33] Thanks [23:16:45] the subreddits themselves may be sfw but the name is derived from something not safe for work (or at the very least not safe for children). personally I'm with Ro with the not liking the name but I don't want to revive a dead discussion so I'll leave it at that