[03:24:27] There are Fandom shills on the Fandom server who love to berate Miraheze, I'm guessing they have nothing better to do [03:27:55] TIL: $wgEnableScaryTranscluding is enabled, meaning that we can transclude templates/pages from other wikis [09:49:33] Nice. So if someone makes a template with specific local data like "number of pages", the data gets transcluded or is differnt? [09:51:41] You mean cross wiki transclude? [09:58:25] I don't know what is the technicism, but is the thing i understand from the previous post [10:00:00] I can't see past messages [10:23:53] i was talking about this one. Quote. Agent — hoy a las 5:27 TIL: $wgEnableScaryTranscluding is enabled, meaning that we can transclude templates/pages from other wikis [10:24:16] is about 7 hours ago [10:31:32] Question to all (RhinosF1 doesn't have to answer this one): What is the origin of your usernames? For me: My username DarkMatterMan4500 on Discord, Wikipedia, Wikimedia, and Miraheze and my YouTube username, DarkMatterBladeMan4000 are based off of the main antagonist who also serves as the secret final boss of Kirby's Dream Land 2, Dark Matter. [10:35:06] heh, I created mine like almost 8-9 years ago, I don't even know honestly. I'd probably change it if I could but I'm too known by this username so it's not worth it [10:36:33] I'll pass on this lol but my mh username is just gibberish [10:37:27] The reason why I didn't want RhinosF1 to answer this is because he answered it a while back saying that his username is based off of some team name, and his passion for Formula One. [10:37:58] @Reception123 I've always wondered if you were in your 20s for a while now. [10:49:27] conjoin of two fairly obvious words, made at the turn of the year, done in a rebranding attempt in favor of my MechWarrior franchise origins. [10:49:41] Ah, I see. [11:01:05] Phonetically obvious, I should say [11:38:45] I love the character of Kirby. Is one of my most favourite characters [11:40:17] which two obvious words? And is only specifically because of mechwarrior? [11:42:42] I see "raid" and "radar" 🤔 [11:42:58] and "rider" [11:43:04] My current username comes from my old username, still in use in wikimedia, Paladium, and my liking for angelology, and that some OC of mine is named Avangel, so the "conjoin", as Raidarr like to say, of Paladium and Avangel is Avengium [12:07:09] Well, the account specifically was only meant as a mechwarrior hideaway, then it became the 'daily driver' :p [12:08:30] what means daily driver? [12:09:18] raid and radar os ok. and Rider. But why is obvious to have two rr? i think that is for style points [12:10:59] That part is [12:24:31] I have to highlight this fellow from the fandom server; the attitude is pretty clear (in regards to miraheze) [12:24:31] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/872817341698813952/unknown.png [12:40:41] that was the guy who said MH support is horrible lol [12:41:24] nobody gonna miss fandom's rude staff ¯_(ツ)_/¯ [12:41:36] There is one point to account for, and it's how reception wiki SEO can override looking for a different sort of miraheze wiki [12:42:27] actually noticed that too [12:42:34] ie, [12:42:34] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/872821884125847592/unknown.png [12:42:56] Idk, I would much rather see those results flipped as a rule [12:44:48] I just don't understand why rate stuff when you can just provide info, is that easier for people? [12:45:18] That's what we do, but some people seems to think quantity is better than quality. [12:46:48] eh? [12:47:01] I'd rather see breakdown and verifiable presentation over bullet point lists of grievences on a hot-take wiki title, personally. [12:47:32] But again, in spite of my own grievance with the formula, there is a degree of hope in at least optimizing what it is. [12:48:40] And I suppose the 'polar approach' will always have its appeal, even if I dare say the appeal isn't especially mature. [12:49:23] I think he is saying nobody will miss Miraheze or Fanfiction or even know that wikis existed [12:50:12] I agree with that. I noticed that when google "Miraheze" [12:50:46] Honestly, that's his problem. [12:51:04] There is an inkling of truth to what he says, but the sum is a bit disingenuous and some statements are certainly disingenuous. [12:51:32] But I imagine he has only seen the unclean side of Miraheze, not so much the better potential of its contents. It doesn't help that MH, as a second place rival, certainly attracts those salty with the first place holder. [12:51:59] That would be in comparison to Wikipedia. [12:52:25] Add a very relaxed content policy and it is nigh inevitable that Miraheze would be known in mainstream terms by its spicier content that it allows as compared to Fandom. [12:52:45] FANDOM's policies are a huge mess. [12:52:45] As an individual, incredibly long lasted and indeed iconic standalone wiki, I do not believe it is comparable to scaling of wiki farms. [12:53:21] Obviously it takes the top as far as topic focus and centralized community, which of course has its splinters (ie, our very own famepedia). [12:54:23] I would say for what it is, Fandom mostly works and I could understand or excuse a good majority of what can be said about them, even if I don't consider it optimal and on principle I dislike corporate behavior. [13:09:37] speak of the devil: the biggest fandom wiki I worked on got a staff member to fix technical errors such "too much templates on pages, loops in templates", etc [13:11:56] Might have been a wiki representative, which tends to happen if thep lace gets big enough [13:13:05] the wiki has a lot of very custom things coded [13:13:41] the admins are well experienced w/ them and fox everything if something happens to break [13:14:42] If the interference actually broke established stuff, that might be a problem [13:17:45] probably ad blocks lol, but idk, they also were well counted [13:18:53] it reminded me of that time fandom persuaded people to stop using navboxes [13:19:00] I've raised eyebrows on some ad-based sites with my screencaps that were suspiciously ad-free [13:19:07] or tried persuade [13:20:55] Browsing around I have to highlight this bit... [13:20:56] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/872831537396207626/unknown.png [13:21:00] No, this is not what they do [13:21:56] lmaooo [13:22:36] I agree. [13:23:05] Also, I tend to be a little concerned when a wiki's policy for acquiring staff is 'get 100 edits' or some such. [13:23:17] 100 edit =/= administrator qualification [13:25:09] Maybe @Musicismylife think the way to rename the main page is deleting that one [13:26:17] Looking back he did indeed use the move feature, but took off the option to redirect for whatever reason. Likely accident. [13:26:29] But however it came about is not helpful when the sidebar directed to a deleted page :p [13:30:25] Having Drama based wikis is an example of Wikis herming the credibility of other wikis by having a better SEO [13:32:01] I think Miraheze is great. In a scale i didn't knew before joining. But after joining i asked for features and the volunteers of Miraheze provided or coded that features. Whose web host does that? So i'm very pleased with Miraheze [13:33:32] Yeah, it has a lot more under the hood than some popular query results might indicate. [13:36:37] This is what I wanted to point out before my scary transclusion comment, Fandom shills don't take a break [13:37:02] It's really only a few who regularly raise eyebrows, and in the discord that is the one [13:37:12] "mIrAheZe hAs iSsUeS wItH uPdaTes" lol no, ask Wikia who was on MW 1.19 for decade [13:38:13] yeah, mostly that Tupka guy [13:38:42] but I mean, I see why he's a shill though, he's member of the community council and has a need to feel part of something lol [13:38:42] i always thought wikia made its own fork of MW [13:38:51] because of the amount of time they spent on 1.19 [13:38:54] Na, not a full fork [13:39:09] But they do tweak it out somewhat when they upgrade, so it is not strictly 'out of date' in the sense it gets zero attention [13:39:30] I previously knew the guy from the Diablo Wiki, which I was almost interested in contributing to at one point [13:40:20] the only "good" thing about this was the possibility to use css vars inline, but that's it [13:40:50] I've been wanting to chime in whenever they talk about Miraheze because they have some wrong info about us [13:41:28] It would have to be done carefully, I think [13:41:44] and that Tupka guy is always berating and saying "going to miraheze is death sentence," "only bad wikis go to miraheze," "Miraheze is unsustainable, it'll shutdown or be bought," etc. [13:42:30] There are slight elements of truth, but yes, the bulk is highly disingenuous and pretty much wrong [13:42:33] extremely carefully, we can't just go and yell at them [13:42:35] lol [13:42:50] Tupka has consistently defended every shitty decision made on Fandom and dismisses anyone who dares share their grievances [13:43:12] well, tbf, bad wikis only found out about Miraheze because Wikia staff literally told them to come here and made it seem like a safe haven for their acts [13:43:14] There is just enough that Tupka can reasonably fall on + the general difficulty of having a sincere discussion that actually addressing him regarding miraheze is a more dangerous approach than it appears. [13:43:56] I can imagine, he's a Community Council member and IVT member, I could definitely see him doing that [13:44:01] Bad wikis could well find out anyways, anything that prides itself on openness to MH's scale and at MH's scale is going to attract certain crowds that aren't "legally" bad, but ultimately a bit of a toxic influence. [13:44:13] I liked Tupka much better when I just saw him on the Diablo wiki though. [13:44:26] what is a tupka [13:44:32] I remember him doing this as far back as in 2016 if I remember correctly, and this was before he became a Community Council member [13:44:54] A well-established local administrator who participates in global conversation on Fandom. [13:44:54] :sannse: [13:45:03] Local to fandom of course. [13:45:08] oh I see [13:45:10] man's been at it for years, shilling for a corporate wiki farm for free :HA: [13:45:16] I think there's a lot of those [13:45:23] naturally :p [13:45:36] His persistence and attitude do stand from the crowd. [13:45:37] (I think one of them was the reason why Wikidex left Fandom) [13:45:40] Hail the corporate overlords ig [13:46:15] Fandom's direction is untenable for various communities that it originally hosted, especially those that want to imitate Wikipedia [13:46:39] Yeah no, if you want to imitate wikipedia theme then Fandom is most certainly not for you :p [13:47:02] But alas, I think it will stand up for their desired majority. [13:47:18] I can't speak for actual fandom-based wikis that Fandom specifically caters to, but Constructed Worlds left in 2017 precisely when they pulled support for Monobook and now, the people on Althistory Wiki have been seriously debating whether a migration is the move [13:48:09] The majority I mean tend not to care much about the layout as long as it's vaguely consistent. But again, wikis wanting to secure a particular aesthetic are in for a bad time. [13:48:16] yup [13:48:19] Imagine getting the Spotify guy to say "Want a break from the ads? Move to Miraheze" [13:48:42] there's more people now who are fine with Fandom's Oasis skin but even that has been dropped lol [13:49:01] If I get a vaguely decent paycheck (not likely this week, but meh) I might be able to prop some in for MH finally, that would be nice [13:49:09] :THONKING: [13:49:27] Another issue is that Fandom pushes changes down your throat, I remember the mass exodus of 2010 after Monaco was removed and replaced by Oasis [13:49:44] as a web designer, layout is extremely important to me :p [13:49:47] and now, I've heard people talking about leaving Fandom because of the FandomDesktop skin [13:50:01] Their answer to people's natural resistance to change is 'well that sucks, have fun with the new shit' [13:50:04] did their staff threaten to remove the local administration for linking to the new fork [13:50:18] yup, and they followed through [13:50:21] :brazil: [13:50:29] Time will tell how effective that is in the long term. [13:50:37] not surprised [13:51:16] I used to avidly contribute to the Club Penguin Wiki and it was funny to see Wikia staff literally threaten kids who were admins with demotion [13:51:17] their policy against sharing links to fork really hinders the growth of our community. People have to first join our Discord server in order to even know our Miraheze fork exists [13:51:26] how do you guys manage to let people know? [13:51:28] hmm, what would be the probability of "success" of a wiki "leaving" Fandom? [13:51:44] On occasion Fandom itself directs wikis to Miraheze. [13:51:49] real shit? [13:52:05] after a lot of discussion, I think they finally let you advertise your fork for 2 weeks only, after which you must change everything back [13:52:17] also didn't this happen with the Runescape wiki where they removed the old administration and promoted their own handpicked users [13:52:29] this is what they told me as well when we moved [13:52:59] I think it really depends on the wiki in question that's trying to leave. By default a departing wiki will lose out on SEO and from there it depends on administrator competence. A brilliant admin will have no trouble and make something technically better with competitive long term SEO appeal. A less competent admin (unfortunately the majority) may flounder when attempting to also account for the more manual process of [13:53:00] MediaWiki management on top of regular admin duties. [13:53:00] happens at so many wikis, at the Club Penguin Wiki, they promoted the best bootlickers users to the job [13:53:09] sorry to hear that [13:53:16] seems like it's become the norm now [13:53:37] @raidarr At lest I left befre it was too latee [13:53:49] I believe a number of departing admins would/will realize that moving platforms is actually a lot of work and end up suffering from it, but naturally others will adapt and be better for it. [13:54:23] Unfortunately Fandom does remain the path of least resistance as far as number of steps/general handholding for most use cases. [13:54:39] If you know how to use WikiSEO, then you've got the cat in the bag. Wikia doesn't employ anything other than good SEO, learn from their example and do what they do and you should be good [13:54:53] Fandom's direction isn't to become the premier wiki farm anymore but to become a second-rate social media platform and entertainment "hub" [13:54:59] SEO is really a full design attitude and cannot be fully accounted by any particular plugin [13:55:04] Though I'm sure it helps [13:55:19] Fandom is attempting to broaden a corporate approach and scope, of which wikis are just one part [13:55:32] I understand that it employs various aspects but even copying a bit of their example is helpful [13:55:37] fortunately, I didn't edit much wikia/fandom wikis [13:55:54] like renaming your main page to the name of your wiki, use certain keywords, etc [13:55:55] Wikia ultimately was my first 'serious' wiki editing ventures as a user [13:56:14] I never really understood Oasis so I quit lol [13:56:20] Never liked Gamepedia though, particularly Curse, then Curse + Twitch [13:56:40] Gamepedia seemed fine before the acquisition [13:56:43] well, my interest in wikis began in 2019, but before that, most of my rare edits were on actual independent wikis [13:56:55] very rarely on fandom [13:57:36] I've always used independent wikis, I've never really edited on Wikia despite my account being a decade old [13:57:47] I probably have like 50 contributions on Wikia [13:58:11] was that out of personal preference? [13:58:12] tbh, 99% of my edits prior to 2019 were on bulbapedia or mariowiki [13:58:54] Wikia + a few independents, sadly one of the earliest ones may be dead for good [13:59:45] tbh, I could never find any interesting wikis on Wikia so I never really contributed [14:00:44] Mariowiki seems very well-organized and professional [14:01:18] Jojo wiki moved out fully and only then announced the move, after that they had huge support in their already huge community, someone even made chrome extension to redirect from fandom to new wiki lol [14:01:27] yes, all wikis on NIWA are very organized and very anti-fandom [14:01:39] well... except for Zelda Wiki, which is a major controversy on the group [14:02:12] the one on gamepadia? [14:02:15] yes [14:02:23] :yes: [14:02:24] they used to be independent, but the owner started to work on gamepedia [14:02:37] and then gamepedia was acquired by Fandom [14:03:11] have they decided to fork [14:03:36] there are some people requesting that, but it's a bit difficult [14:03:46] they have been members for over 10 years and then this happens [14:05:17] awkward to see .fandom on a list of "independent" wikis [14:05:31] maybe if nintendo will treaten fandom lol [14:05:39] just to delete [14:05:50] 💀 [14:06:21] /j [14:07:24] also, jojo wiki partnered NIWA as well [14:07:40] (not a member, but just like an anti-fandom partner, lol) [14:11:34] yea, I mean, they really done it well [14:46:42] What is the Jojo wiki? [14:47:23] wiki about JoJo's Bizarre Adventures [14:47:29] wiki about anime/manga Jojo's Bizarre Adventures [14:47:54] Ok [14:48:44] I'm in independent wiki too. But my community is very few. Is not compared to niwa or jojo wikis [18:50:51] tbh, I think Miraheze should have in-house support for translating extensions/system messages Translatewiki is useful but it gets confusing trying to translate system messages on Translatewiki and Meta pages on Meta. I think it should be uniform. [19:02:36] I like that is on Translatewiki [22:45:53] Probably not worth the time and effort for an in-house solution to be made atm, when there is nothing wrong with translatewiki other than inconvenience [22:46:49] Plus, if we were to make an in-house solution it would only really be Miraheze users translating, whereas when we are doing it through translatewiki we also get the translators there too [22:46:53] I recognize that's it's mostly the inconvenience caused of having to log into a different website rather than an issue with it [22:47:11] Rather seldomly though, people usually translate a project they're interested in [22:48:42] No, I bet there are a number of people on translatewiki who go around to translate projects that they are not a part of [22:52:01] I actually checked that out the other day and in most circumstances, it's users related to Miraheze and then occasionally the random user who fixes a grammatical mistake [22:52:09] But I do agree that if it isn't broken, don't fix it [23:17:46] Tbh, the way it works gives me good mental reason to avoid it [23:18:01] Positively nightmarish trying to figure the code with 't' nonsense everywhere, at least as it looks like to me [23:23:55] ? [23:24:50]