[06:45:13] @DarkMatterMan4500 could you tell Qualtipedia admins to always add a sitenotice explaining why a wiki was closed? We're going to have a flood soon of users asking why Rotten Websites Wiki was closed [09:16:12] With a name like that i wonder how Rotten could open [09:57:27] Oh. Never knew they got closed. [11:02:53] Rotten was closed? Who decided that one? Blimey... [11:03:16] Not me. I was asleep when it occurred. [11:03:33] Oh I'm sure, it's just another case of admins going rambo without communicating again. [11:03:56] Frankly I would advise a nuclear option at this juncture, but I'll detail it in message if you wanted to hear about it. [11:04:24] Okay then? [11:04:32] Private message, I mean. [11:04:43] I knew what you meant. [11:05:17] It's just quite frustrating that everyone speaks about resolving problems and then people go off making decisions that start new ones. [11:05:33] It gets annoying after a while. [11:05:57] Perhaps if people have the capacity to start problems out of thin air, their ability to do that should be removed until there is a clear system they must follow to make decisions. [15:08:23] But people can make problems out of thin air. You can't stop that [15:10:45] When you go to sleep and find out your fellow admins have pissed off another dozen users... [15:11:24] Yeah, it happened while I was asleep. [15:12:10] Frankly at this point what I'd like to say about the Qualipedia admins would get me banned from this discord. [15:16:18] Well, you can stop them from arbitrary blocks, deletions, closures and other decisions that tend to be made by people of authority. [15:17:19] Namely you ensure their damage may only be caused by words or abuse of good-faith procedures, which I think is much more manageable than people 'in authority' using cold hard tools. [15:19:31] That are scenarios, but things out of thin air are literally from thin air, not scenarios [15:20:44] I'm not sure why we're arguing semantics here to be honest. [15:21:09] It's quite simple, if people are causing problems with tools usually handed to people with authority and responsibility, then those people have abused both and should have neither. [15:21:09] The freedom we give to local admins to close their wiki singlehandedly has this downside [15:21:45] common users want the wiki open, and local admin put their permission group in action, and close the wiki [15:21:51] In this scenario, one local admin made the decision without even consulting the others, and evidently the others are just rolling with it. It doesn't help there is a local boogieman against drama, which in practice translates to 'let us do stupid things and don't complain about it'. [15:22:48] That's the price we pay for letting them have the independence to close whenever they want [15:22:51] Or the latest line, 'take it to the meta' while the meta is incredibly underdeveloped and largely ignored by those admins themselves. Noting that the meta is in fact a meta for the wiki 'network' in question. [15:23:14] The trouble is that one of the users with the power to change this condition is a regular here, and the designated leader of the mess. [15:23:36] Not just an admin, the actual presumed leader who even b-crats should look to. [15:52:53] Please don't dump it on metawiki for the avoidance of doubt unless it's a significantly backed proposal to usurp the wikis with a steward-backed coup [15:53:31] And probably a policy change to state when a steward backed coup to prevent admin closure where the community disputes is appropiate [15:54:35] Clarity on the latter might help, the most I see right now is that stewards can approve a community fork, ie, if enough users were pissed by the incompetence that they want to make their own edition [15:55:12] As for the former, 'take it to the meta' is locally used to take it to 'qualitipedia meta', which understandably makes a confusion in terms when both places are mentioned on those sites. [15:59:44] For me, the existing community of a wiki should be able to over rule admin & crat actions if there's no local policy allowing it [16:00:10] I'm not sure of much precedent though [16:00:43] This is why to be honest well formed arbitration via Stewards & community RfC would be quite interesting [16:01:16] Well frankly, in this case any topics to discuss the matter are shutdown and told to go elsewhere, leading to hardly any opportunity for the community to unite and discuss. [16:01:17] DuchessTheSponge was the one who closed both of the Website wikis without any consensus whatsoever. [16:01:31] Beyond the basic fact that the wikis themselves are closed and cannot be discussed on. [16:01:52] I'd be quite interested in a single thread as an RfC [16:02:18] Ok, I'll tell you in public what the nuclear option is. Demote him. He has violated consensus time and time again between both admins and community members. You are the elected leader of Qualitpedia. Use your authority. [16:02:29] Reopen it, demote them, resolve the issue personally. [16:02:37] From a meta admin perspective, I don't see an issue as long as it's well formed so the precedent it sets it careful [16:02:58] Keep an eye out for Trevor, who has publicly listed Duchess as a friend and may attempt to overrule your decision. But in that case you may have a cause for Steward arbitration. [16:03:00] What we want is the community to be able to take action if it has a rouge admin [16:03:28] In this case it can be solved locally, because DMM is literally elected to be in charge of the network. He has the power to overturn a rogue. [16:03:34] Not anyone to say I didn't like that they blocked me so I want to desysop them [16:03:53] Especially when the community clearly has no power to stop it, and yet they clearly did not agree to the decision in any form. [16:04:06] I've already been demoted from the Website wikis as part of the closure, especially when it shouldn't have been done to begin with. [16:04:47] Then you have been doubly violated in authority, and I fully support a move to respond by removing them on all QP for power abuse and supporting Blazikeye's petition on the [[Stewards' noticeboard]]. [16:04:47] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Stewards%27_noticeboard [16:04:48]

https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Stewards'_noticeboard [16:04:51] [url] Stewards' noticeboard - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [16:04:52] [url] Stewards' noticeboard - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [16:05:06] I saw @Blazikeye's thread too. [16:05:11] Not to mention (for Rhino's benefit), this is far, far from the first instance of that particular admin acting in very bad faith. [16:05:36] They have support in terms of certain users calling them friends, but even some of them concede that Duchess has no position leading the wikis. [16:05:56] And I would be very careful of Trevor instigating a coup as both a friend and b-crat, a classic case of conflict of interest. [16:06:14] This isn't the first time this has happened. Back in February 2020, someone named Landscape (PKMNLivesNew upon discovery by @Void) demoted everybody on the Amazing YouTubers Wiki, only for it to be reverted a few minutes later. [16:06:59] For me, there's definite grounds for mediation and forced action [16:07:09] Even Mario (who might be known here as a sort of 'flanker' for Duchess when expressing support, oppose and making decisions) has both privately and publicly made comments of deposing Duchess when they were still the figurehead. So no and I repeat, Duchess has incredibly little admin or community support. [16:07:36] But if you want to take a stand, you must take it immediately. [16:07:50] Mario's the questionable kind. There were times that I had to guide him about specific things. [16:08:05] Drop what you are doing if it is not real world important and resolve it, I can't tell you how much this is a pivotal moment in taking a stand for QP's leadership going forward. [16:08:20] From me to you, Mario is trustworthy enough to not be a risk in this case. [16:09:30] Speaking of DuchessTheSponge, I think I discovered an alt of his: https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:CentralAuth/Duchess7he5ponge [16:09:32] [url] Global account information for Duchess7he5ponge - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [16:10:18] Please focus on removing their permissions and lending appropriate support on the SN first. [16:10:36] Very well. [16:12:38] I'd quite happily put up an RfC for a policy on reopening wikis closed without local community consensus if needed [16:12:55] @RhinosF1 Feel free to. [16:14:37] Instant support [16:15:02] :SupportMH: I would definitely support this, no doubt. [16:15:39] But has Duchess been removed from CGW, QP central and the rest yet? [16:15:53] It is vital to do so to help stave off retaliation and handle the issue. [16:15:56] Oh no, not yet. [16:16:10] Please do so before entering discussion on the matter. [16:26:36] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_Comment/Community_Disputed_Wiki_Closures [16:26:37] [url] Requests for Comment/Community Disputed Wiki Closures - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [16:26:52] Okay. [16:29:18] Please focus on what we discussed regarding the demotion before lending support to ^ [17:24:25] We do have precedent for something similar, but I don't think it actually went through due to the community supporting status quo. I can't quite remember what it was though [17:27:30] I think with both admins and assorted community members confirming no discussion took place (and the backroom undercutting by the former), it's fairly clear in this instance. [17:35:22] While I have an understanding for the opposure, one's vote was questionable at best. [17:42:57] I actually meant to post the example here anyways [17:44:30] I might assume lack of full understanding of what it entails (a steward's nigh instant ability to say 'this ain't right' and take action) or the presumption that opposition opposes any ability to handle the situation, which would not be the case. Either way a notable position given the source is the rogue admin who stands to lose from the result. [20:47:34] Rogue admin are chaotic elements [21:07:18] Hot take: Miraheze needs a subscription service [21:07:41] Fill the service with ads, make it unscrollable like Fandom and then offer a subscription service [21:07:54] name it Miraheze+ [21:08:00] :coolcp: [21:08:29] no more budgeting shortfalls [21:10:20] <✨ TheresNoTime ✨> 😬 Discord Nitro [21:10:46] I'd sub, tbh [21:10:47] <✨ TheresNoTime ✨> (mucked up that joke eh) [21:12:10] oh yeah? Prove it 🤨 [[Donate]] [21:12:10] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Donate [21:12:11]

https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Donate [21:12:11] [url] Donate - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [21:12:11] [url] Donate - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [21:12:42] can I borrow 20 bucks [21:12:55] No reason [21:13:07] [[mh:bank]] [21:13:07] https://mh.wikipedia.org/wiki/bank [21:13:08]

https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Mh:bank?action=edit&redlink=1 [21:13:11] [url] Mh:bank - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [21:13:15] aaa [21:13:17] interwiki fail [21:14:26] Miraheze Nitro :nitro: [21:14:29] sounds cool [21:14:30] lol [21:15:25] yes [22:06:23] @raidarr: bank of RhinosF1 is shut [22:06:34] impossible [22:07:39] It needs to count everything up before September [22:07:48] And it gets bled out again [22:08:14] <✨ TheresNoTime ✨> offtopic but actually on-topic do I need to do anything else now that I've submitted a global rename request for my account, or do I just need to wait? ^^ [22:08:25] Just wait [22:09:08] <✨ TheresNoTime ✨> that I can do 😛 [22:09:51] But... Theres No Time! [22:10:08] Lol [22:10:37] * RhinosF1 shakes head [22:14:25] twitter is absolute trash when it comes to design, but now they reached another level [22:14:44] the follow button now is filled, and the following/unfollow is unfilled [22:15:41] <✨ TheresNoTime ✨> I just like how obnoxious a colour you can pick for the theme :') [22:15:46] <✨ TheresNoTime ✨> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/880213889252462662/unknown.png [22:47:16] damn, that fuchsia burns eyes [22:47:38] a [22:50:50] 1/4th of all topics on the Stewards' noticeboard is regarding a closed Qualitipedia wiki [22:50:53] that's insane [22:51:35] That's what happens when QP is a mini network on a network that's 'meta aware' :p [22:52:02] Hopefully with cleanup we won't see QP on Meta for a long time. [22:53:27] hopefully [22:54:11] <✨ TheresNoTime ✨> delete it all [22:55:36] I doubt that would work. [22:55:39] most of us want them gone [22:55:46] it's a joke :))