[00:00:58] @Doug did you vote in the canadian elections? [01:09:45] from what I can tell, this was probably the most useless election in canadian history [04:58:45] @paladox, I did. Voted for the local Conservative incumbent, albeit rather reluctantly. I can't support the Liberals due to the arrogance of Justin Trudeau, though I remain a registered Liberal [05:00:03] I can't support a Prime Minister who doesn't respect the rule of law, breaks his promise to implement proportional representation for the next federal election after 2015, and has been cited by the Ethics Commissioner for thrice having contravened the Conflict of Interest Act [05:00:53] @Lake, 💯 agree. $650 million for the Liberals to gain or lose 1 seat, essentially. Expensive chair ;) [05:02:45] $650 million just to get another minority government, lovely [05:04:52] yeah :( [05:06:30] and though he was legally able to call an elxn, within the Constitution Act, 1982, and/or Constitution Act, 1867, we have a fixed-date elections law that says elections are supposed to be held on a fixed four year schedule unless there's a loss of a non-confidence vote, essentially, so in my view, he broke the spirit of that law, too :( [05:07:22] (for context, 1982 is the year Canada fully repatriated its constitution from the Great Britain) [05:08:31] though in practice the Statutes of Westminster Act of, I believe, 1931, is when we stopped having to have the British privy council approve certain regulations and laws [10:05:16] @Doug heh, I would never vote conservatives in Canada. I was between ndp and liberals. After finding out the ndp leaders views I then leaned towards liberals though I liked ndp policies. [10:06:12] I don’t particularly support PR right now and I’m glad the labour conference failed to pass it even though the leader is free to ignore the motion. [10:06:30] You need to agree on a pr system, all good saying pr, but what type? [10:08:19] Though it was kind of stupid he went for an election. May tier 2.0 [10:12:25] Tbh, I still like how the canadian system works over the US even if it clearly has its flaws [10:13:00] Well the Canadian system doesn’t cause the issues the us have :mirth: [10:13:18] I support parliamentry systems like we have here in the U.K. [10:13:35] Indeed. And I'd rather see minor changes, stalemating, minority parties than a binary 'choose which hole to take it' [10:14:05] I support the democrats in the us [10:21:28] is a labour member [10:24:29] * RhinosF1 wants to shout at these kids below [10:28:21] doesn't like FPTP [10:30:37] Why not [10:31:02] Though I must say the conservatives switching all mayoral elections and police crime commissioner to fptp is vote rigging [10:31:18] Literally switching to fptp because they want to rig the vote in their favour [10:33:09] Because I don't think it's great to have to basically choose between two big parties: what if you don't agree with either of them? [10:33:50] It does have it's advantages but I think there's more disadvantages and people should be able to vote for a candidate/party that they like, not have to vote tactically [10:34:04] You still have to do that under pr [10:34:49] I don’t like how people proclaim that your vote under pr counts. It doesn’t although it counts a tad bit more then fptp. PR makes you have a coalition and really hard to have a majority govt [10:35:14] Yeah, I didn't mean PR is better. I prefer ranked voting [10:35:19] but yes of course, every system has its flaws [10:35:25] Ranked voting is pr [10:35:38] oh, I thought PR meant proportional representation [10:35:43] At the very least the practical illusion of diversity is preferable to open admission that there is only a binary and that is your choice (or in some cases, only one choice at all). Rather have that little bit more of a count + a pretense to fall back on of there being more than a system that more or less surrenders to flagrant vote tactics. [10:35:46] It does but has many systems [10:35:54] Stv, mixed and so on [10:36:23] Well then there's also two-round systems where the two candidates with the most votes advance to a second round [10:36:31] So in the first round you can vote for whoever you want without fearing that your vote won't matter [10:36:32] Which is why throwing pr around without the system is just bad [10:36:38] And would lead to a bad campaign [10:37:14] My problem is just with the fact that if you don't choose Party A or Party B your vote will be 'wasted' [10:38:41] Yeh, I don’t really support being forced to have coalitions [10:39:15] In a case where the prime minister isn't doing their job right is a problem, isn't it? [10:39:38] Yeh [10:39:50] I don't know much about this but for example in Scotland if there wasn't FPTP I think the SNP would have less votes because at least some Conservative voters might rather vote for Labour if the alternative was only SNP if they're remainers [10:40:21] But this way there's only one vote and Labour + Conservatives have more votes together than the SNP candidate [10:40:21] Well in Scotland if they switched to pr for westminister snp would lose seats [10:40:35] Scotland uses the same system as New Zealand [10:40:50] Wales the same although labour there is looking at changing to stv [10:41:01] Including including how many members of welsh Parliament there are [10:41:15] (From 60 to 90) I think [10:41:22] Ah I don't mind STV. [10:41:39] STV is better then the welsh and Scottish system [10:41:44] Lists are terrible [10:42:23] Also fyi tactical voting is still a thing in Scotland [10:42:27] You saw that in may [10:42:35] Conservatives voting labour and vice versa [10:42:45] You had unionists energised to vote [10:43:23] I quite like anas sarwar. He’s surprised me and my ratings of him have gone up [10:44:00] (I’m a unionist fyi) [10:44:20] Yeah though if there was a different system the SNP would have lost even more because if there were only two candidates Labour would probably vote for Conservatives if they're a unionist and vice-versa [10:44:26] I guessed that 😄 [10:44:51] I would probably agree as I think we've seen how long a separation can take and how much money and time it costs [10:44:53] SNP and conservatives are both terrible parties, stoking up division [10:45:09] SNP are just liars [10:46:36] I got a letter through the post for my local elections in may [10:46:42] It was from my conservative mp [10:46:49] I was like lol no I’m not voting you [10:47:47] My seat changes in 2023 🥳 [10:48:14] A coalition represents a greater portion of the population [10:49:03] I generally don’t support that as it means you have to water down your manifesto. The manifesto you were elected on. [10:49:12] I like majorities even if I don’t like the party [10:49:33] It does mean you water it down, because a majority of the population didn’t like your manifesto [10:49:34] These past two years my political views have changed :mirth: [10:50:04] @Owen you support pr? [10:51:06] I don’t really have much of a preference around voting systems. FPTP and constituencies have their problems, but I don’t dislike it enough to want to change it [10:51:23] So I’m in the same position as you [10:51:27] I’m soft-fptp [10:52:15] If you had to chose what pr system would you go for @Owen ? [10:52:20] I would pick stv [10:54:34] AMS is an interesting system and could potentially work but probably not in a local-politics lead system [10:54:44] Heh [10:56:07] @Owen since we’ve last talked politics my views have changed significantly. [10:57:36] @Owen wait, Scotland uses AMS. It uses lists. [10:58:04] Yeah [10:59:30] I don’t really support ams. [11:01:17] AMS [11:01:35] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Additional_member_system [11:01:35] [wikipedia] Additional member system | "The additional member system (AMS), also known as mixed-member proportional representation (MMP) outside the United Kingdom, is a mixed electoral system with one tier of single-member district representatives, and another tier of "additional members" elected to make the overall election results more proportional.The term additional member system, introduced by the Hansard Society, has […]" [11:02:39] I don’t know why ams was picked for Scotland and wales though wales seems to be heading towards stv for the next election [11:04:12] @Owen did you watch the political conferences? [11:12:17] The weird thing in the UK is that Scotland, Wales and NI have their own parliaments for devolved matters but England only has the UK Parliament even for its devolved matters [11:13:07] the government here is almost identical to the government system of france [11:13:31] but it's not working as expected, since 1822 [11:13:38] Ah, that's intereting [11:13:52] Your president is the worst though :D [11:14:29] well, that's one bad thing about this tgovernment system, only one specific guy can open an impeachment process [11:14:34] but he refuses to do so [11:16:03] Yeh [11:16:09] I support the U.K. going federal [11:16:27] Though not like the us where you have different vats in each state [11:16:45] Yeah though I doubt that would satisfy the Scottish independants [11:16:52] I like vat to be unified so I don’t see different prices when going to the shops [11:17:13] It would [11:17:16] More powers etc [11:17:26] Yes wouldn’t go down significantly but it’ll go down [11:17:33] But either way no is leading right now [11:17:36] Yeah though in the US the taxes only get added at the end they're not included in the price you see [11:17:45] Yeh that’s stupid [11:17:50] Yeah like the SNP would still be puhsing it I'd say [11:18:01] Well it’s a Scottish nationalist party [11:18:15] Yeah, without independence they're pretty much dead [11:18:24] it's still pretty weird to me how few political parties there are in the US, UK, Canada, etc [11:18:38] There’s a lot of parties here [11:18:41] Yeah because of FPTP [11:18:51] Well yes they exist but they're meaningless [11:19:08] They would still be meaningless under pr [11:19:11] I know of some in the US, but I think they have more of a regional/specific scope [11:19:22] Unless they garnered some major support [11:19:58] there's at least 50 federal parties here, and this fracture the congress entirely [11:21:24] Well small parties aren't meaningless in countires like France, Germany, etc. [11:21:38] Or Brazil yeah [11:22:08] yes, the party Bolsonaro was part of was pretty small until he started campaing [11:25:52] Kind of are [11:36:12] Well yes in a sense but they have seats in Parliament and some of them are also in governments [12:07:18] Biker Anonymous by k6ka (AKA Czar Hey) https://www.flickr.com/photos/czar_hey/51546332602/, https://www.deviantart.com/k6ka/art/Biker-Anonymous-893774235, https://www.instagram.com/p/CUlR_7EgvFl/ Date Taken: Oct 2, 2021, 5:56:24 PM EST Camera: Nikon D7100 Lens: AF-S DX VR Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G Shutter Speed: 1/8000 sec Aperture: f/3.5 ISO Speed: 100 Focal Length: 18mm Flash: Off, did not fire [12:07:19] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/897817770887118908/DSC_1312_2021-10-02_edit2-2021-10-03.jpg [12:07:19] [url] Biker Anonymous | The neat thing about silhouettes is that y… | Flickr | www.flickr.com [12:07:20] [url] Biker Anonymous by k6ka on DeviantArt | www.deviantart.com [12:07:23] [url] Login • Instagram | www.instagram.com [12:11:59] Well I don’t think all small parties in Germany are in Parliament [12:12:11] Isn’t there some kind of percentage before they enter Parliament? [22:27:25] In france all the parties are awful [22:27:36] literally don't know which party i would support [22:27:53] macron trying to outdo le pen. Le Pen being anti eu and far right [22:28:19] centre left god awful in france [22:58:54] Le Pen is the last i would vote [23:09:04] indeed [23:10:21] Norways centre left govt gets sworn in today [23:31:20] unfortunately, this "reactionary" right wing took over italy [23:37:34] who [23:38:19] seems like the main parties and a large part of the population are supporting very trump-like politics [23:38:30] In italy? Well [23:38:39] i think the current govt is centre-left [23:38:57] though right wing and centre-left parties are pegging each other in the polls