[00:00:34] It was incredibly likely due to an "unknown error" that I have received. [14:02:16] I think this is the most ruthless policy I've seen for administrators on Miraheze, frankly [14:02:16] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/908355952577749102/unknown.png [14:02:33] Primarily the last bit [14:02:40] Where was this from? [14:02:50] Observation on Allpedia [14:03:00] That's really strange. [14:03:21] It's relatively normal with how the wiki operates, but I was especially taken with 'you take breaks? admin isn't for you' [14:03:42] That's no way to go about this. [14:06:11] Perhaps not, but it is what it is [14:06:38] The trick is that current administrators have gotten on with similar, so they don't seem to necessarily mind even if there is not much evidence of consultation [14:50:15] oops [16:02:57] Hm, this is not good. [16:03:22] I’ll try to get around to remove that. [16:03:23] You're one of them now that I think of it :p [17:20:46] dmehus I'm sure you're doing good. [17:21:28] ugochimobi: please check #interwiki-requests [17:21:56] I've seen it actually, but I have finally been locked out of my account [17:22:06] o [17:22:10] I'll get on it then [17:22:16] Hm? [17:22:22] What happened? [17:22:25] thank you @Agent [17:22:47] lost 2fa? [17:22:50] Compromised? [17:23:02] I need lock backup codes of 2FA plus Authentication device [17:23:07] Naahh, [17:23:20] email tech{{@}}miraheze.org [17:23:20] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:%40 [17:23:21]

https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:@ [17:23:22] [url] Template:@ - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [17:23:30] maybe they can help [17:23:49] Samuel has help though, I need to submit some documents [17:23:58] So I need to rectify some things. [17:23:59] yeah, long process [17:24:18] s/has help though/has helped though [17:24:18] ugochimobi meant to say: Samuel has helped though, I need to submit some documents [17:24:55] If you get it back, you should make a SHA-514 commitment [17:25:20] flashbacks to T7854 [17:31:04] @SelfCloak I have that already, [17:31:58] did you send it to tech? [17:33:29] All possible avenues have been tried, including emailing sre@ [17:34:23] Yes Agent [17:34:39] Me + Owen have spoken to ugochimobi numerous times [17:34:56] The sha thing was added post request so we can't use it [17:35:08] Ah, alright [17:49:13] .mhca Magogre [17:49:13] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:CentralAuth/Magogre [18:13:59] Heh, I still remember this https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_global_rights/Archive_2#Oppose_16 [18:14:04] [url] Requests for global rights/Archive 2 - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [18:15:00] Redmin made a great oppose reason. [18:21:16] @SelfCloak, why is hat collecting a "great oppose reason," or was that sarcasm? From my perspective, it's not a great reason, if it doesn't address the person's capacity or competency to assist [18:27:31] It was more of how he said it [18:29:18] Bukkit, oh [18:29:40] @dmehus we need your help at famepedia please help [18:30:03] Cocopuff2018, I know it's on my list to do [18:30:38] * dmehus is hoping another Steward (or two) is around to discuss the matter...@Void and @NDKilla, ping me in #miraheze-cvt-private if you're around [18:31:21] @dmehus we need sun removed asap we all had sucessfull RFP and now he is removing us the policies say nothing about him having to be present for a promotion [18:32:31] He has other things to do, Cocopuff:. [18:32:38] Cocopuff2018:* [18:32:46] Okay, to be clear, though, this is complicated by the fact Sunil and Ugochomobi have a partnership agreement. That may cover the use of the name "FAMEpedia," though it doesn't preclude the contributions from being used on another wiki as the wiki is CC licensed [18:33:15] Bukkit, it's a fair report. It's just more complex than a simple lacking consensus to remove users [18:33:27] ok so i dont get admin back? [18:33:27] but I'll get to it by the weekend [18:34:14] @dmehus how you plan to resolve all this? [18:34:30] Technically speaking, Ugochomobi and Sunil should not remove each other's rights, so if that's been done, I will ask the offending party to restore those rights or explain what policy justified that [18:34:45] Hmm, new admins are being promoted [18:34:55] Without consensus [18:34:59] @dmehus you can see he removed me without a demotion thread [18:35:05] and now he is randomly promoting [18:35:17] Can't edit incidents noticeboard [18:35:29] even @Agent knows i am a good admin to famepedia and of course fair [18:35:51] Nothing precluded Sunil from blocking Ugochimobi, and nothing precludes Ugochimobi from blocking Sunil, but it's the rights removals that are problematic [18:36:07] Sun accused all of us of being an alt to Joseph [18:36:46] Aside from that, as a secondary concern, I'd like to discuss with Stewards about a clause in their private bilateral comment [18:36:56] still if he can randomly promote pepole wihtout a request for admin thread then he cannot demote us without a valid Request for revoktion thread [18:37:05] its common sense [18:37:11] s/comment/agreement [18:37:11] dmehus meant to say: Aside from that, as a secondary concern, I'd like to discuss with Stewards about a clause in their private bilateral agreement [18:37:48] @dmehus so we did have a request for revoktion for sun aswell [18:38:02] everything should be reversed till a decision by the community is made [18:38:14] that's complicated, per what I said above [18:40:52] I have no options left than to unblock myself and act, I can no longer sit back and watch things tear apart. [18:41:38] so will ok [18:41:47] just remove sun [18:45:21] don't rush others just to make things worse [18:46:02] :catGun: [18:46:23] :waaa: [18:48:17] Ugochimobi, you can unblock yourself, that's fine, but neither of you should be removing rights from each other [18:49:36] hrm [18:49:39] dmehus: his rights need to be removed, at least for now, given his recent log actions [18:49:39] What's the repercussion of removing rights from him? dmehus? [18:50:30] agreed [18:53:42] Ugochimobi, DM me, but you have an agreement that precludes that which, in effect, serves as the wiki's founding constitution. It's complicated by other factors in the agreement [18:54:11] Nothing is complicated. [18:54:34] I'd be more inclined to lock the wiki at this point, pending a resolution, but am waiting to discuss with other Stewards [18:54:51] why are you flexing your nitro :( /j [18:55:19] a lockdown they can just unlock it [18:55:21] @dmehus [18:55:40] Cocopuff2018, no, not with an extension, with ManageWiki [18:55:54] Bureaucrats though... [18:56:06] Requires `managewiki-restricted` to unlock. It would only prevent ManageWiki changes from being made [18:56:19] Basically, restore status quo and lock, pending resolution [18:56:21] Ah, alright [18:56:23] how long a steward review will take? [18:56:26] @dmehus [18:56:37] THE WIKI SHOULD BE LOCKED THEN. [18:56:44] Cocopuff2018, could be a few days to a few weeks, but hard to say [18:56:51] oh gosh thats long [18:57:07] We're all volunteers, remember, with other priorities [18:57:10] we need to keep the wiki going [18:57:17] Yeah [18:57:22] LET IT BE LOCKED with more capital letters. [18:57:30] Ugochimobi, please DM me [18:57:36] oh you did [18:57:38] why not remove sun till his demotion is decided [18:57:38] nevermind [18:57:43] instead of locking [18:58:59] @dmehus [18:59:54] more of the community wants sun removed so its more against one [19:00:43] Cocopuff2018, there's not the existing policy support for that, though. Ugochimobi can fill you in further, probably privately, if he wants [19:01:07] please do @Ugochimobi [19:01:28] kinda upsetting the wiki has to be locked down for a few weeks [19:02:13] The clarity of the founding policy is incredibly shoddy on FP at best tbh [19:02:28] Cocopuff2018: it will only lock managewiki not editing, I think, right, dmehus? [19:02:58] locking manage wiki locks down actions [19:03:06] There is certainly zero disaster contingency for when the key operatives turn on each other; alas, domain control and the other third party elements are under Suni's control while the wiki itself is technically community governed with default wikipedia import policy or none at all with no other on-wiki evidence to sustain otherwise. [19:03:24] Though there is something protectwiki option but suni will be able to unlock that [19:03:29] Tbh given there is a new Steward in the room I was wondering if we'd see John in the mix, back end of course. [19:03:41] @John [19:03:42] You can lock down a wiki so bureaucrats can't operate it, that's not a problem [19:03:50] good idea [19:04:05] we should revoke crate actions [19:04:06] It was mentioned already but still seems to be a contended idea [19:04:17] John is not in this channel Cocopuff2018 [19:05:06] oh [19:05:20] CosmicAlpha, that's right [19:05:35] At least, I think something should be done to prevent what's happening on the wiki. [19:05:48] they can still edit and change a user's rights, but it'd prevent changes to group permissions [19:06:32] That's what I figured. [19:06:37] Thanks! [19:06:39] np [19:07:44] what we gonna do to famepedia for now then? [19:09:48] well, now I'm just waiting until windowswiki gets resetted [19:10:04] seems like this week has been busy for SREs, so I can't complain [19:11:01] famepedia is screwed [19:11:09] what happened [19:11:14] Take a break, vacation for a while and come back when the Stewards figure something out [19:11:19] There's really no point at all until then [19:11:28] sip tea on moviepedia or something :p [19:11:47] Literal civil war between once-equal bureaucrats [19:12:11] im bymyself at moviepedia [19:12:15] oh, I did see someone complaining about famepedia on phabricator, but I don't know the context [19:12:41] That's pretty much what it boils down to, one bureaucrat was absent, came back, didn't like what the other bureaucrat was doing and flipped out [19:13:26] yep bingo [19:13:30] strange [19:14:32] Indeed [19:22:35] im sorry so is sun collecting our private user data i never gave consent to it @Dmehus [19:24:56] Has he asked you for it>? [19:26:20] what's happening on relay [19:27:40] Cocopuff2018, he hasn't collected your data if you've not provided it to him. I'm just seeking clarification re: that [19:28:14] He has likely asked from newly promoted admins [19:29:13] Yes, ^. Based on the log actions, it seems the recent user promotions have provided their private information to Sunil, so I'm seeking clarity in terms of how that data is handled and what, if any, local privacy policy they've put into place [19:30:06] Wouldn't that violate the Terms of Use? [19:30:50] One interesting aspect to me is that there appears to have been hardly any, perhaps no defined policy structures at all until Ugo arrived and imported large swathes of wikipedia policy en masse, resulting in the odd condition FP is in today regarding its policies. Any sort of founding agreement or other definitions of control are also absent via the wiki itself. [19:31:48] Sunil = the other bureaucrat of famepedia, right? [19:32:13] yeah [19:33:47] And the original wiki creator; Ugo (known here as Joseph) was brought on some time later as a co-founder, acting manager in Sunil's new absence and apparently "CEO" whatever that was supposed to be >.> [19:34:38] it's a whole brand apperently [19:34:46] consisting in the FAME prefix [19:34:55] The other sticky bit, literally any other FAME thing is under the original founder's exclusive control [19:35:33] Frankly I don't think it's a stretch to say based on earlier entries and the bureaucrat's prior activity, the wiki was specifically set up as a vehicle to promote himself, those he knows/associates with and the brand. [19:35:50] Closed for advertising [19:35:53] :catThumbsup: [19:35:54] That's just fucked up. He shouldn't do that at all. [19:36:08] The trouble comes with Ugo working to make the wiki something more expansive built from wikipedia, including notability policies that destroyed his original self-promotion content >.> [19:36:30] what was the goal of famepedia originally? [19:36:47] I actually just knew its existence after Ugo/Joseph talking about it [19:37:02] Per above I don't think it was explicitly stated, but rather obviously (even from recent conversation) for promoting his brand and the routine of owning a wiki. [19:37:03] Joseph's goal, an encyclopedia that more people can edit [19:37:23] It's administration is less harsh per se [19:39:13] 🤔 [19:39:38] but hey, if Joseph in the end wants to fork things, he can do that [19:39:45] just needs to change the name I think [19:46:58] It's something he can viably discuss with the stewards [19:51:16] Ugochimobi, https://en.famepedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Sunilbutolia#Question_regarding_your_partnership_agreement_with_Ugochimobi_with_respect_to_the_FAMEpedia_%22brand%22 [19:51:17] [url] User talk:Sunilbutolia - FAMEPedia | en.famepedia.org [19:53:36] Yay [19:53:38] :D [19:54:10] hola, peruanoball :D [19:54:22] Hola peruanoball_2 :D [19:54:26] :D [19:54:28] :D [19:54:54] Por favor, no clones [19:54:57] no botnets [19:55:05] che [19:55:09] no te preocupes [19:55:19] No, dije no clones [19:55:21] This is an off-topic channel, but trolling/speaking to yourself with different users is inappropriate [19:55:33] a weno [19:55:37] asi sí [19:55:43] ok [19:55:52] ta bien [19:56:01] ya me fui [19:56:02] xd [19:57:06] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/908445250706628638/unknown.png [19:57:14] If Sunil's case hinges on this question, he's toast tbh [20:06:33] yeah [20:11:29] listo [20:11:38] me quedare aqui [20:12:02] Mejor [20:14:24] *bebe un vaso con agua* Listo, ahora sí, este es un mejor lugar, una pena que todos estan como un NPC xd [20:15:31] Peruanoball: Eso depende de cada uno [20:15:35] A mi el brazo, casi no me ha dolido [20:15:45] Y tengo las dos dosis desde hace un mes [20:15:49] bueno [20:16:07] no es que me dolio tanto pero, no podia levantarlo en cierto punto xd [20:16:25] Es peor fiebre o algún otro malestar [20:17:15] pos, no senti fiebre [20:17:19] Desde la experiencia de mi entorno, los que tienen Pfizer han sufrido más en la segunda dosis que en la primera [20:17:22] solo un pequeño dolor de cabeza [20:17:24] AstraZeneca, al revés [20:17:42] Y en mi país compraron una basura china [20:18:05] F [20:18:07] Una fórmula de un laboratorio del mismísimo estado chino, del régimen chino [20:18:07] @dmehus, so if no policies were followed to admin being demoted do we get restored [20:18:16] que el gobierno se ha empeñado en hacer lobby [20:18:27] diciendo que aquellos que estamos en contra de la misma "desinformamos" [20:18:54] @dmehus so private data transferd to sun isnt that aginst TOS [20:18:59] Si fuera legal matar chinos... condenado DD.HH. y su- momento... :Trollface: [20:19:04] todo porque un presidente que tuvimos, se vacunó a escondidas, y a cambio de eso dilató los contratos con Pfizer [20:19:11] ya regreso :> [20:19:13] (se vacunó a escondidas con estos chinos) [20:19:26] ire a visitar a china de forma "amigable" [20:19:33] No compraron moderna, siendo la más eficaz [20:19:37] No compraron Janssen [20:19:51] Moderna han comprado, para el otro año (2022) [20:20:28] Y ahora recién están vacunando a los mayores de 12, cuando todos los países que limitan con el mío -salvo uno de ellos- ya están vacunando a niños mayores de 5 o de 3 años [20:20:29] Cocopuff2018, it depends how he's collected the information that's our concern from a T&S perspective, hence the reason for requesting clarification [20:20:54] @Dmehus so more likely if no policies were set to my demotion will you most likely be restoring my admin [20:21:40] *Me banean de China* Perfecto, no los quiero de todas forma, y uno cosa más... R [20:22:06] MmmhmhmH... bueno, que paso mientras no estuve? :D [20:22:32] @dmehus i have proof i was promoted with a RFP thread which i was Nominated by Joseph, if he was not present for the vote then that clearly means their is no policies which cover this [20:22:48] Cocopuff2018, well that's separate from the T&S clarification. I've separately requested clarification, as a Steward, re: their founders' agreement. That may effect their right to use the FAME wiki brand, but that's between Ugochimobi and Sunil. In terms of the rights removals, I've requested clarification on what local policy was used to remove rights [20:24:44] @Dmehus and if no valid clarifications are made? [20:24:57] by the way @Joseph, could you explain for me how Wikibase works? I see you use it on famedata [20:25:18] Cocopuff2018, then I'd restore the status quo whereby users with rights removed would be readded [20:25:39] @dmehus and what in this case happens with SUn [20:26:12] but I'd against any sort of on-wiki retaliation against Sunil, unless they proceeded to further revert the reversion to the status quo [20:26:41] @dmehus i say we keep the Request for revoktion up for sun till a week passes [20:26:55] their is no way we will be keeping sun as staff [20:27:24] If nothing turns out with the founder agreement and local policy business, perhaps [20:27:50] Cocopuff2018, well that's not really assuming good faith. If the user admits it was a faux pas and moves forward, it's best just to let sleeping dogs lie [20:28:33] E [20:28:55] but if they just ended up ignoring the community's will again or otherwise ignored any requests of them, then a revocation would be fair game, imho [20:43:16] I'm back now. I had update the firmware on my laptop. [20:43:37] ah, wb darkmatterman450 [20:44:27] Yeah, I mean, I do have my phone with me anyway. [20:54:02] you need to ask questions, lol [20:54:28] It's because I'm not understanding exactly how do you structure the data [20:54:58] with Cargo, you parse the data inside templates, so when you use the template, the specified parameters get stored [20:55:09] but how does it work with Wikibase? [20:55:50] Ah, cargo is way different from Wikibase though [20:56:42] Let me give a brief and simple explanation of the data we're structuring. [21:00:15] Let me say we have an article about Lake Joseph and the contents are Lake Joseph (born 11 November 2021) is an American (whatever) Mirahezian and Mister man. He studied at Lake University, UK. With these sentences, not all robots would understand what this article is talking about, when I say robot I mean, robots like Googlebot and Bingbot. [21:03:10] i see [21:03:14] But when we create an Item on Wikibase and connect it to this Lake Joseph article Let's say; instance_of:human sex_or_gender:male nationality:American studied_at:Lake University, UK. Those internet bots will understand that this is about a person (human) a male for that matter, that studied at Lake University, UK, and is an American. [21:03:58] These are the languages that the google KP bot understands. [21:05:00] TBH, without Wikidata, Wikipedia is just there for nothing. [21:06:21] just one more thing [21:06:35] is it possible to query this data inside and outside of the wiki? [21:07:36] you could query these data inside the wiki if you're able to do that outside the wiki, [21:07:46] just like query.wikidata.org [21:08:23] just that configuring the query of a thing is a bit gonna be difficult here, on Miraheze [21:08:44] is it possible with the mediawiki api [21:08:46] ? [21:09:23] because with Cargo and SMW, it adds some parameters to the API so I can query the data even with Scratch if I want to [21:10:24] Oh yes, it is possible with mediawiki api iirc [21:11:28] I see, well I will try to use it on my project then [21:11:32] thanks for the help [21:12:33] no p [21:12:49] Wikibase is really interesting though [21:13:17] *if you understand it, lol [21:29:25] @dmehus im sorry so your saying we keep sun as staff [21:30:08] The private data part just concerns me. [21:30:32] of what sisutatiion Dark [21:30:41] Cocopuff2018, I'm suggesting that if Stewards revert to the status quo and Sunil either explicitly accepts his mistake or otherwise moves forward productivitely, to just drop it [21:31:28] If they refuse to move forward in that way and otherwise disregard the reversion to the status quo, then a local revocation should be considered [21:32:16] @dmehus and as for the current Request for revocation we already have on him"? [21:32:27] Sunilbutolia should **NOT** be collecting private or personal information from anybody, **PERIOD**. [21:32:36]