[00:36:27] @Agent you should have asked me these questions in RfGR; would be more interesting than citing just wikipedia essays [00:38:31] Perhaps he would have been compelled to change his approach if the questions I had posed in a similar vein were answered. [00:39:22] yes, I was wrong, I was supposed to answer your questions. but I never saw the agent voting support (nothing against it because of your opinion). [00:45:46] The issue with you is that you're a relatively new user who has shown issues recently and displayed a somewhat hat-collecting attitude by repeatedly requesting rights time and time again. Additionally, your attitude of refusing to get the point and canvassing around administrators to see which one was willing to regrant you patroller after a good portion of administrator's declined is concenring. All of that caused me to be [00:45:46] forced to oppose. Ugochimobi on the other hand is an established user with a history. Sure his RfS went horribly but there haven't been any overwhelmingly negative points that have forced me to oppose him. [00:46:06] Again, if you wait a little bit and build up community trust, I will have no problem in supporting you for more advanced rights [00:49:32] Command sent from Discord by Superintendent: [00:49:32] . [01:01:48] Did you hear the news? @raidarr just became a new Global Sysop. Take it away Mr. Raidarr. [01:02:09] no, i did not but thats poggers [01:02:19] What do you mean poggers? [01:02:33] poggers = Good [01:02:35] happy [01:02:40] Ah, okay. [01:02:48] I'm surprised you've never heard of the word poggers [01:03:24] Actually I did hear that word from somewhere. I just forgot about it. [01:03:32] same, [01:03:32] i mean [01:03:34] your on discord [01:04:06] This was months prior to your arrival, when a vandal had that name. [01:04:27] anyone like futuristic wikis [01:04:29] or is it just me [01:14:35] No, calm down here. I understand what you say so much that my behavior has improved a lot (I've been editing Meta since August, although I've been registered since October last year). And yes I understand the general global rules of MH, and I strive to understand it, you just trust. [01:15:35] But I thought the community didn't trust me. am sorry [01:15:39] Indeed, and it should continue to improve before you make any new permissions requests. Don't focus on what you could do if you had a hat, focus on what you can do now and build up your trust. [01:15:53] That's all I ask, that you wait. [01:17:13] But do you (and the rest of the people here) like my contributions and me? [01:18:08] Trusting all your contributions is a wide statement that I cannot back but I do agree that you attempt to be helpful both on Discord and on-wiki [01:18:28] Why is MediaWiki only reconizing 1 when i have DiscordNotifications installed [01:18:28] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/923384027715633152/unknown.png [01:18:30] and configured [01:18:33] atleast i think [01:19:13] Thanks. But why "it tries to be useful"? I suspect that. You still don't find me useful? [01:25:54] It? Who? [01:26:19] did you enable the extension by adding wfLoadExtension( 'Discord' ); into your LocalSettings.php? [01:27:00] im using discord notifications no [01:27:08] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DiscordNotifications [01:27:09] [url] Extension:DiscordNotifications - MediaWiki | www.mediawiki.org [01:27:17] well then, wfLoadExtension( 'DiscordNotifications' ); [01:27:28] Command sent from Discord by Superintendent: [01:27:29] .. [01:27:32] i have all of this config code [01:27:37] but no Load for the extension [01:27:38] ssf [01:27:53] make sure to place it before your extension configuration [01:28:53] now im getting a blank page with no html [01:28:54] at all [01:29:06] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/923386704130359436/unknown.png [01:29:07] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/923386704386195476/unknown.png [01:29:42] check your error.log [01:29:52] Doing [01:30:35] it cant open a file [01:31:07] @Superintendent Where did you place the DiscordNotifications folder? [01:31:12] In the /extensions/ folder? [01:31:22] /var/www/html/w/extensions/ [01:31:23] yes [01:31:29] You unzipped it, right? [01:31:35] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/923387326963531806/unknown.png [01:31:38] oh [01:31:39] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/923387345825316874/unknown.png [01:31:40] rename it [01:31:48] remove the numbers? [01:31:49] rename it to just DiscordNotifications [01:32:04] Ok [01:32:11] still blank page [01:32:32] what can it not find per your error.log [01:32:46] You [01:33:17] You said "it tries to be useful" so you're saying I try to be helpful or I say you try to be helpful? [01:33:19] I consider myself useful yes [01:33:41] I [01:34:02] Issue of semantics I guess [01:34:31] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/923388068076060692/error.log [01:35:14] annoying is this: about-conversations. What's the fun of two conversations? [01:35:50] sorry. [01:35:53] It seems you're also trying to enable DarkMode, is the folder for DarkMode named "DarkMode"? [01:36:00] oh wait [01:36:03] i forgot about that [01:36:18] thats that one extension that couldnt Get Tar xsf [01:36:44] This is the problem with discord, that's why it's good to talk privately [01:37:06] 😤 [01:37:13] Two convos can work with the right parties, but admittedly that starts to roll the odds [01:37:54] What? [01:38:05] it works, Agent [01:38:08] Im gone [01:38:21] Eh, don't mind me, I'm a little less coherent than usual :p [01:40:24] ? [01:47:23] ? [01:48:44] what a joke, guys [11:51:47] Tbqh I was having something to drink last night, so my clarity was, almost literally, under the bar >.> [11:52:29] it happens :P [15:09:23] remembers that one time I got drunk because I thought that the beer can was pepsi [15:09:49] I wonder what I was thinking “hmm this pepsi tastes weird” [15:09:58] “Must be limited edition” [15:15:08] Believe it or not, between yesterday (and actually this morning so far) a whole bunch of things happened all at once, and I reckoned a beer (which usually makes me more sleepy >.>) would be a good way to answer. [15:38:27] It didn't make sense to me once again you quoting NotYet [15:38:39] even if it's not me, even so [15:39:41] @Agent voting support doesn't hurt and it's free, you not voted support on RR's request. Why did you do that? [15:40:25] This sounds like something to confer with him in PM for. Regarding support however, a support is indeed free to give, yet its impact is worth something and so it should not be given freely. [15:40:30] Wikipedia essays will have to be banned in miraheze, , in my opinion [15:41:01] Considering a great deal of how Miraheze operates is backboned through Wikipedia policy, that would be an extremely unwise choice. Instead they should simply be used more carefully. [15:41:22] Dude, that won't happen, as some of us have worked hard on modifying the essays. [15:41:37] ^ [15:41:52] Essays = things done by wikipedia dictators, so it wasn't supposed to be here, only the policies [15:42:51] but it's to defend myself and defend the kind users, got it? [15:43:31] It sounds more like you are misunderstanding the intentions behind the use of the essays, something which is consistent with the repeated conversations that are trying to demonstrate the issue that you are indeed, not ready because you are misunderstanding the very culture that Meta has, and if you do not understand this then you will inevitably have problems with local users in spite of you not intentionally doing anything [15:43:31] wrong. [15:44:57] The spirit of community and collaboration, ideally free of drama and cultural division is every bit as important as the contributions themselves, considering community is what gets people to work together and thus keeps a majority of them contributing for a longer time. Thus you need to try and understand this aspect. As advised in confidence, I think a good step to this end is taking a step back from Meta and the near [15:44:57] endless arguments circling around this topic. [15:45:19] ok, forget it. The reason here was because I never saw the user mentioned above voting support. I just agree with some essays and that they really help, not some that are..... [15:46:11] His individual reasons for doing things are connected to a wider reasoning. How he votes in one case goes by the arguments presented to you, while his voting in another recognizes that the circumstances are different and pertain to them. [15:46:14] And Doug said it doesn't take several months for me to ask for some cool rights [15:46:41] Didn't he also say something else regarding that? [15:47:00] What is missing from that citation to Doug is that it doesn't necessarily take several months because rights are not a matter of the time you spend, but your integration and trust in the community itself. This could be in a shorter or longer period of time and it is a journey for each user. [15:47:27] He said it wasn't WP:HAT but WP:NOTYET [15:47:30] You don't have to be a genius for clarification to come into play either. [15:47:47] Don't they both fall into nearly the same category? [15:48:10] well I collaborate a lot here, so I just say one thing you are not obligated to do: trust or not [15:48:25] No [15:49:25] You must have missed my participation in many other RfXs before. Raidarr knows he has my support and in fact, he knows he has my strongest support. Your vote is important, if you don't believe someone is fit to do something then why would you for in support of them? Your vote lacks merit and should be discarded if you vote just to vote without any real reason to do so. [15:49:47] I mean, in terms of essays, while they aren't the same, that doesn't necessarily imply that they aren't eligible for the snowballing clause. [15:50:31] WP:HAT and WP:NOTYET are nice ways of two other essays I have seen invoked regarding your activities, WP:CIR and WP:IDHT. The essays are used because they reflect a general wiki understanding of what they mean, but in this case I will explain the last two: CIR as an issue of the user integrating well in the community. It does not mean they are useless or do not help, but it does mean that the results are problematic. IDHT [15:50:31] as an issue that is difficult to use correctly, but in so many words points to when someone is explained the problem, yet is unable or unwilling to reckoning and adjust their approach to fix it. However, the choice of essay is not important, and it is distracting from the point to argue about them. What matters is why they are being used. [15:51:19] Consider why people see the need, and regardless of your personal convictions, recognize that and adjust your approach to at least understand the problem, and ideally take steps to fix it. [15:51:34] Many Miraheze users are Wikimedians and in fact, some of our users later go on to serve in high positions within the English Wikipedia (like English Wikipedia CheckUsers, Oversighters, Arbitration Committee members) or globally across the Wikimedia movement (like Wikimedia Global Sysops ans Stewards) [15:51:34] you quoted WP:IDHT to me now? No, I accept what you say, no wonder I speak on the noticeboards (contributing) and I forget to ask for rights [15:52:15] Please do try to be civil, @YellowFrogger. [15:52:16] ? [15:52:26] The problem is that your changed approach is to raise the same problem in different contexts. The change needs to be more foundational. Ie, rights are not a right to have. They are a privilege conferred by the community. [15:52:39] There was nothing uncivil in his reply to me, I was the one to mention it. [15:52:47] [[w:WP:1984]] [15:52:47] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:1984 [15:52:47]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:1984 [15:52:49] [wikipedia] WP:1984 | "This is a comparison of Wikipedia to Nineteen Eighty-Four." [15:53:24] Yeah, I was afraid that there was argument about to commence, and I didn't want this to escalate. [15:53:52] Sorry if I was a little rude, don't take this personally. What I'm saying is that I'm collaborating, just see [15:54:01] Oh, the argument is here, the trick is to try and resolve it in a way that will reduce or eliminate the problem on Meta itself, as it has repeated several times. [15:55:18] Noticeboards, voting (it's important) and recently with my community whitelist [15:55:57] I do not take it personally, but I do implore you to reconsider why people are using the essays, to change how you view rights as static rewards for contribution as a 'leveling up' of activity, and to take a step back in why people are taking issues. You have done reasonably good things even if they are not always done in the ideal way. What we're mentioning is the less ideal things that come with it. [15:57:17] I will try to cite the reasons why they are citing this to me According to their opinion I'm asking for the rights early = WP:NOTYET I'm asking for the rights often one on top of the other = WP:HAT I'm not listening to you = W:IDHT Did I get it right? [15:57:45] Those are summaries of the essays. The trick is to understand why, in context of what you post, people are seeing the need to invoke them. [15:57:51] Those are good examples you pointed out here. [15:57:59] But yes, they are accurate enough for this conversation. [15:58:41] so should i eliminate all these problems and maybe two months from now i'll be consecrated? [15:59:31] See, and that's where I find another issue, that you seem to find rights as rewards when really, they're not. [15:59:46] I'd see it less as trying to eliminate them in pieces, and more changing how you approach them to improve interactions between users by Discord and by Meta. I would not consider a time limit, because it is not a matter of time, it is a matter of progress and perception. [15:59:52] yes man i know [16:00:33] Really, if you resolve all outstanding issues then I doubt people will oppose you, some may even support you. [16:00:38] I don't think I'm wrong in Discord [16:01:27] I think regardless of what specifically is wrong, the fact that issues tend to come up on Discord anyway is something to consider. [16:01:27] I mentioned these reasons so, according to you, I have to resolve them to gain the community's trust, right? [16:01:46] Yes. One is nothing without community trust. [16:01:53] yes, but conversations on top of each other are stressful [16:02:01] [w:WP:IMRIGHT]] These examples might also help you. [16:02:01]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:IMRIGHT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:YOUREWRONG [16:02:02] [wikipedia] WP:IMRIGHT | "Wikipedia discussions are supposed to be a place for intelligent, rational discourse, with due consideration given to all opinions, dissenting or otherwise. As adults we often assume this type of behavior comes naturally, rather than remembering the lessons on discussion and proper communication we learned as children.If any of us thinks back we can remember a time as children when we (or at least […]" [16:02:02] [wikipedia] WP:YOUREWRONG | "Wikipedia discussions are supposed to be a place for intelligent, rational discourse, with due consideration given to all opinions, dissenting or otherwise. As adults we often assume this type of behavior comes naturally, rather than remembering the lessons on discussion and proper communication we learned as children.If any of us thinks back we can remember a time as children when we (or at […]" [16:02:59] I read all this, the problem is that miraheze is a wiki hosting, and wikipedia is an encyclopedia [16:03:23] True, but one thing that still remains the same, is the engine both of them are running on. [16:03:53] Wikipedia is a community, and Miraheze is both a community and a creator of communities. The principles overlap. What the subject matter focuses on and indeed, the software it uses is not the key. [16:03:57] The two projects are closely related (though not the same) [16:04:40] Wikipedia = Wikimedia Miraheze = Miraheze Limited? [16:04:53] Yes [16:05:56] And I don't give a shit about Wikimedia (sorry if you're a volunteer there or something, but I don't mean to be rude). What matters is that she manages MediaWiki after she has acquired it. I don't want the harm of WMF, but we must focus on ourselves [16:06:17] Irrelevant to the purposes of this conversation. [16:06:36] yes, but what I say here is that we must focus [16:06:54] The essays are not invoked because Miraheze is Wikimedia, they are invoked because they describe behaviors and community elements that are part of a broader wiki culture, which is not exclusive to one platform or the other. [16:07:12] As I stated before, focusing on the use of the essays is missing the problem that invoking them is trying to convey. [16:08:11] OK, but I'm noticing rehearsals now, not the use of them [16:08:21] or from now on [16:08:50] If you believe, thank you, if not, I'm sorry. As soon as I can do it [16:09:04] Believe what? [16:09:17] The trouble is that I think in spite of this conversation, we're still not quite on the same page. [16:09:18] Believe in YellowFrogger [16:09:53] Indeed. I feel that the point has not been conveyed properly at this point despite attempts. [16:10:21] why? but yes I'm pushing myself and you'll see the results [16:11:08] We will see I suppose [16:11:21] And agent, would you give me a second chance? [16:12:18] ? [16:12:32] Ok thanks RR and dmm for the advice [16:12:53] now I'm going to review what I do as I've been doing before [16:23:23] Of course, as long as you resolve these outstanding issues and stop making so many hasty requests. [16:27:26] aren't you a high school senior? 🤨 [16:28:17] kids these days... [16:28:48] I thought that blue can was pepsi [16:29:09] As much as kids get over-exposed to adulting things, I must say that alcohol mishaps go for about any generation >.> [16:29:15] 🍺 limited edition pepsi [16:29:22] They do taste very different :P [16:29:34] Actually much stricter nowadays [16:29:53] Yeah, affects all generations [16:30:36] Thinking it's actually way, way harder to at least deliberately get into an alchohol mishap now [16:30:47] It's just that other things took its place + 100 >.> [16:35:12] A recipe for disaster: Mix a very tired Bukkit and beer [16:35:31] Or anything for that matter [16:35:41] When I’m tired I tend to be stupid :P [16:38:42] me, aged 14, got drunk on homebrew kvass [16:39:24] we had no idea it can ferment so strongly [16:39:59] Curiosity [16:40:04] Amazing [16:42:48] RhinosF1: Sore throat and a cough [16:43:04] Covid test. [16:43:48] I’m getting one sometime today [16:44:04] I’ll let y’all know the results [16:44:07] Good [16:44:35] * RhinosF1 is taking daily ones over the festive period [16:45:22] agent, do you know which table holds information to MediaWiki? [16:46:13] Ok I will do just that 🙂 [16:46:27] It surely gets a bit annoying, but I’d rather protect people with some inconvenience, rather than getting my friends and family and everyone around me sick [16:46:33] Just be glad my Covid test came back negative. [16:46:38]