[00:00:04] I wouldn't have though of that [00:00:39] I'm always too skeptical of anybody with any control over anything lol [00:00:48] I'd like to see an Ombuds Committee if we had a bigger volunteer base [00:01:06] So any way to reveal private practices to the public and keep institutions accountable, I'm all for :p [00:01:14] Remember the Code of Conduct Commitee and how it basically failed to meet? [00:01:24] yup... [00:01:28] unfortunate [00:01:38] If we had a more active volunteer base then I'd propose an RfC for it [00:01:59] I've thought about creating, and tried a little bit to create, an online, decentralized ombuds council [00:02:23] Essentially like a volunteer ombuds corps/volunteer "professional" association [00:02:33] Just ombuds to be available for communities to implement [00:02:45] Also, we've never granted CU/OS to non Stewards so there's that [00:02:57] Our current Stewards are competent enough imo to not misuse the tool [00:03:47] Now if we were like Wikimedia that has hundreds of CU/OSers across all projects then even without a very active user base, I'd support the proposal [00:05:22] imo ombudsmen would be implemented something like this... 1. Have all tools necessary to view, but never take action on any information uncovered 2. Do not have the authority to make binding decisions or implement sanctions 3. Have unrestricted access to make public any findings, and issue recommendations 4. No class of functionary be protected from viewing by ombuds 5. Ombuds never have, nor do they currently, hold any [00:05:22] functionary permissions with the ability to execute in violation of 1 or 2 [00:05:24] as an ideal [00:05:29] or a framework [00:06:31] Of course, it narrows the user base lol [00:06:44] yeah lol [00:06:49] With a council, you could narrow it down to just one sitting member that meets point 5 [00:07:12] But... Those are what I view as necessary tenets of ombuds in any environment [00:07:51] We need functionaries just like WMF tbh [00:07:56] We need a global Arbitration Committee [00:07:58] :P [00:08:35] An Ombudsman Committee would be interesting but yeah, we lack the volunteers for it and also, there's not too much of a need [00:08:51] we've never granted a non-Steward CU/OS [00:09:04] I would actually kinda appreciate if more public logging were done [00:09:07] as a compromise [00:09:36] I was actually thinking about that, a public log would be nice, sort of like WMF Stewards who publish stats on their loginwiki CheckUsers [00:09:52] i.e. because regular users can't view CU-log, I wish we could have a page where stewards note what is being checked and why [00:10:01] With only IPs and PII redacted [00:10:08] Ah [00:10:22] Go bug WMF devs then lol [00:10:40] tbf we could write it down :p [00:11:09] but if we go to a non-IP identity, CU-log could probably be public [00:11:16] that would be revolutionary [00:12:30] Unless the Wikimedia community pushes for it, I don't see it happening soon [00:12:37] me neither [00:12:56] Perhaps maybe checkuser.miraheze.org or something like that? [00:13:14] MW devs primarily focus on Wikimedia (which is to be expected) so we'd need Wikimedians to push for such a change [00:13:26] https://checkuser.wikimedia.org This is an example. [00:13:27] [url] CheckUser Wiki | checkuser.wikimedia.org [00:13:32] oh [00:13:33] hmm [00:13:40] I didn't know such a wiki existed [00:13:50] neither did I.... [00:13:54] strange [00:14:04] They've always had that wiki. [00:14:20] Well, I don't think such a wiki would be needed as all our CUs are Stewards :P [00:14:20] Well, that's good [00:14:30] Yeah, true. [00:15:30] Either way, to get local CheckUser, you'd need at least 2 users who meet Steward requirements to win at least a 70% (or whatever the ratio is for Stewards to win an RfS) support ratio and at least 20 unique votes [00:15:37] So I doubt anyone will be getting local CU soon [00:15:48] might as well run for Steward lol [00:31:11] I tend to go to the IOA a lot for Ombuds resources tbh https://ioa.memberclicks.net/what-is-an-organizational-ombuds [00:31:12] [url] What Is an Organizational Ombuds | ioa.memberclicks.net [02:00:38] @Agent I actually see that naleksuh puts yes for users to follow the content policy. [02:00:59] Only on one request because the request was very confusing [02:01:19] Check all their other approvals, it just says "Request approved." [02:04:01] I don't see it. I see him saying "Request approved. Please, follow the [CP]". I was not informed that he did not speak [02:07:51] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:RequestWikiQueue/22325#mw-section-comments https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:RequestWikiQueue/22327#mw-section-comments https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:RequestWikiQueue/22276#mw-section-comments https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:RequestWikiQueue/22201#mw-section-comments https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:RequestWikiQueue/22185#mw-section-comments [02:07:53] [url] Wiki requests queue - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [02:07:56] > Request approved. [02:07:58] [url] Wiki requests queue - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [02:07:59] [url] Wiki requests queue - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [02:08:00] [url] Wiki requests queue - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [02:08:01] [url] Wiki requests queue - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [02:18:23] John was recently re-added as a Steward again, and that's great that he's back. [02:18:32] I noticed, and some were still today. He is the only user who has gained rights with just 30 issues, named by Doug. But he doesn't seem to have a little knowledge of CP, he should just cite it more for uninformed/newcomer users [02:19:38] He had a previous Wikipedia background which may have helped him [02:20:02] WTF is CP? [02:20:17] yea he also helped outside of Meta-Wiki [02:20:30] [[m:Content policy]] [02:20:30] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Content_policy [02:20:31]

https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Content_policy [02:20:32] [url] Content Policy - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [02:20:47] Indeed [02:21:02] He's been more focused on Infrastructure though as of late [02:22:25] I hardly agree with a user benefiting from Miraheze just by having rights in a WMF wiki [02:23:17] They shouldn't but you have to remember that a lot of our users were or are also Wikimedia volunteers [02:24:26] yes, but most leave WMF because of the light bureaucracy there [02:25:08] WMF is also responsible for MediaWiki after just get it. [02:25:39] I frankly don't know why people leave Wikimedia to be quite honest [02:26:06] @Oofernet It stands for Content policies. [02:26:12] but some of our users have later gone on to be enwiki admins, ArbCom members, CU and OSers, and even Wikimedia Stewards [02:27:00] oh. [02:27:20] get tired of editing or else they will create their own wiki [02:27:26] I replied u [02:27:51] One of the CheckUsers is Sammy (or simply TheresNoTime), who also happens to frequent not only Wikimedia server, but also here (but is communicative as tn on IRC. [02:29:06] Indeed [02:29:19] though I think you just pinged them on IRC [02:29:31] Yes, I did that purposefully. [02:29:32] You did 🤪 [02:29:45] i'm probably gonna work on my wiki when the migration is done so it won't be 2 hours just to get out Vs Oofernet Week 1. [02:29:52] apologies for that :P [02:29:53] tn Oh, I didn't think you'd pop up online. [02:30:07] That's only in 3 days from now. [02:30:15] alright. [02:30:27] That's okay :) [02:30:38] Oops wrong button there 🤣 [02:30:57] Yeah, I've seen you on the Wikimedia server anyway. :P [02:31:52] bots... are.... taking.... over.... [02:32:12] Wha? [02:32:44] THE BOTS IT JUST MADE A FULL ON CONVERSATION. [02:33:04] hmm? [02:33:07] No [02:33:12] @Oofernet It's not as bad as you think. Bots are very helpful on any MediaWiki project. Hell, you can even make your own bot with just a few easy steps, which does include coding and programming the said bot(s). [02:33:41] User conversations on IRC appear here. are users [02:33:43] Also, this isn't a bot speaking to you, it's actually me, @DarkMatterMan4500, speaking to you in both places. [02:33:56] Oh, hi me, darkmatterman450. [02:34:11] Yeah, we're on IRC, that's why it seems like the "bot" is talking [02:34:19] the bot is relaying our messages [02:34:24] Agent Exactly. [02:34:37] How do i talk on IRC? [02:34:50] Did Miraheze have anything to do with me going on to become a steward or was I already one 🤔 [02:35:05] Bots are useful for doing tasks that humans find lazy like archiving, repetitive editing. Creating a wiki is not a task to be lazy about. [02:35:59] tn You were never a Steward on Miraheze, but you were on Wikimedia. Also, speaking of which, I've recently seen that you have that sparked interest in being a Wikimedia Steward again. [02:36:27] https://web.libera.chat/?channel=#miraheze [02:36:27] [url] Kiwi IRC | web.libera.chat [02:36:36] (yes should have specified WMF Steward) [02:37:15] It is very annoying as you have to do something to hide your IP [02:37:44] You suddenly resigned in 2020 for unknown reasons, which had something to do with you personally, something that wouldn't be discussed normally in public, if I'm right on that. [02:38:17] darkmatterman450: the extra context is really not need in this situation [02:38:21] darkmatterman450: that's right, yes :) I drafted my renomination at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:TheresNoTime/Steward_2022 [02:38:22] [url] User:TheresNoTime/Steward 2022 - Meta | meta.wikimedia.org [02:38:42] Sup. [02:38:58] who is tn? [02:39:00] Auto support just by virtue of being a Miraheze user :P [02:39:52] YellowFrogger: a long time Miraheze user [02:40:04] Agent, what extra content? [02:40:07] and also Wikimedia volunteer [02:40:16] tn I've seen that a couple of weeks ago. [02:40:57] Bruh I Got Marked away just for not messaging for 1 minute. [02:41:08] nvm [02:41:21] Oofernet Did you mark yourself as away perhaps? [02:41:29] Welcome to IRC :p [02:41:31] yeah. [02:43:07] Do not know. But she is a veteran and her last contribution was in August. And according to the userpage, it's a girl. Sorry if something goes wrong, and I say "him/he" ✋😃 [02:43:46] your IP is in public, on your profile, you have to do something to hide it [02:43:58] Me?! [02:44:08] Yes 😅 [02:44:14] IRC is a old service [02:44:37] i left IRC. [02:44:46] Good [02:45:09] but just do something complicated to hide [02:45:48] welp i don't trust IRC. [02:46:03] cuz it leaks F*cking IP's [02:46:45] Luckily, my IP is just a VPN that I've had apparently for quite some time. [02:47:38] Logged out users who edit wikis their ips are in the edit history. You have to login to hide, so don't worry. It is dangerous to show IP in public. [02:48:32] If That Doxxer Bot Still Associated with Miraheze There might be a Dox-pocylpse. [02:49:10] Lol [02:51:05] It's not leaking if that's how it's designed :) [02:52:00] An IP can wield very limited info on one. At most, it tells people in what city you live but without hundreds, thousands or maybe even millions of people in your city, that's not very helpful [02:52:41] ok [02:53:31] hmm... I Have a good idea for a Funkiheze Fanon Mod! [02:55:36] In fact this is debatable. A computer can be tracked by IP, only if a hacker wants to know. It's dangerous. [02:58:14] With most ISPs, you can easily switch your IP by restarting your router [02:58:37] oh- [02:59:09] Oh I wouldn't be too worried about an IP :) [03:00:42] yeah ima stay off of IRC still. [03:02:55] Oh really? my ip changed once from ipv6 to ipv4 [03:07:52] know what i don't want my day ruined just because of a old service. [03:10:18] * tn has been using IRC for 10 years or so, it's fiiiine [03:40:26] Home office. Delicate service. Miraheze 12:38 am ☕ [03:40:26] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/930667511106633748/IMG_20220112_003724398_HDR.jpg [04:35:57] Entity #2373: The Dox. The Dox is a red liquid similar to the glitch. but red. it turns entity's into aggressive zombies which usually have murderous attachments onto entity's bodys. [04:38:58] and either the victims eye color changes to light red or rose red or just no iris' The Also have a Chance of Smiling. [04:42:29] Also, when it infects a robot it'll just make it murderous. [04:58:15] Bois i can be in IRC again i got a VPN [05:00:53] Bruh The dumb bot is banning me for no goddamn reason. [05:01:37] It says because you're using a "proxy or VPN" [05:01:51] [[No open proxies policy]] [05:01:51] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/No_open_proxies_policy [05:01:53]

https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/No_open_proxies_policy [05:01:54] [url] No open proxies policy - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [05:02:22] I Don't Wanna get Doxxed [05:03:10] Fine Bot, you win. [05:04:00] It's a fair point about using proxies on IRC seeing as how the IPs are displayed publicly. But yeah it's still against policy. [05:04:38] fine. [05:18:30] @dmehus, did you see the latest request on Meta:AN? Rate if you want [05:18:51] I'm sure he'll get to it soon [05:25:32] Command sent from Discord by YellowFrogger: [05:25:33] . [05:32:40] made a mockup for my wiki layout [05:32:42] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/930695763057598484/unknown.png [05:32:59] Cool [05:33:16] Ok, @Dmehus [05:36:57] The guy who requested the astronomy wiki doesn't have a crystal ball to know the wiki of @hi :> [05:38:19] > lol [05:38:30] > well [05:39:29] I'm not arguing any side, I'm just saying that yes, it seems like it's a duplicate wiki [05:39:39] that's all [05:40:29] if it is intentionally, it's a problem, because he probably wants to create a competition, but I see that maybe that's not it [05:40:43] That's not what the policy means... [05:40:49] > sighs [05:41:05] > "I am not saying you should decline that wiki request or delete that wiki now, but the wiki has the same topic as my wiki, making it a duplicate." [05:41:24] > im just reminding him its a duplicate and i added it to that list [05:41:34] Ok, I know [05:41:47] Policies means what? [05:41:59] > [[User:Talk64³/Problem with duplicate wikis]] [05:41:59] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/User:Talk64%c2%b3/Problem_with_duplicate_wikis [05:41:59]

https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/User:Talk64³/Problem_with_duplicate_wikis?action=edit&redlink=1 [05:42:01] [url] User:Talk64³/Problem with duplicate wikis - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [05:42:04] > [[User:Tali64³/Problem with duplicate wikis]] [05:42:04] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/User:Tali64%c2%b3/Problem_with_duplicate_wikis [05:42:04]

https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/User:Tali64³/Problem_with_duplicate_wikis [05:42:06] [url] User:Tali64³/Problem with duplicate wikis - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [05:42:11] > wut [05:42:26] If I accidentally create defamatory content because I don't know the Content Policy, am I exempt from fault? No, it's still a violation. Therefore, even if it doesn't a mistake, a duplicate wiki is still a violation. [05:48:45] I saw here that the user account that requested this was created 7 months ago (June). I'm not claiming, but adding, that he must have been inspired by the anpang wiki during that long period of time, yet this anpang wiki is stalled. I didn't see him claiming to be inspired, so it's harder to know. I also saw in your CentralAuth that the account is not unified in @hi :> wiki [05:49:57] What's your claim here? I can't form a coherent sentence from this [05:49:59] Direct forks are **directly** prohibited by the content policy. Duplicate subjects are **not**. Direct fork, means the importing of content, and the forking of the other wiki. It also states "If mediation has been attempted and failed, contact a steward who will be able to support the community through any follow up processes deemed necessary including but not limited to acceptance of a fork wiki as an exemption to this [05:49:59] clause." So mediation could be attempted and then brought to the attention of Stewards if necessary. [05:50:01] > [[mh:space:Special:ListUsers]] dpoesnt contain him [05:50:01] https://mh.wikipedia.org/wiki/space:Special:ListUsers [05:50:02]

https://space.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:ListUsers [05:50:06] [url] User list - Astronomy Wiki | space.miraheze.org [05:50:07] > what [05:50:10] > wm-bot is broken [05:52:22] That I saw [05:52:34] > which means he never visited my wiki [05:52:41] yea [05:53:01] I interpret the "If we believe that your wiki proposal will hinder other wikis, we may decline your request." section of the policy to also apply to duplicate wiki subjects [05:53:05] > so he must just saw either my userpage or WikiDiscover for this to be true [05:54:27] Agent: I do not believe that the wiki is against the content policy. That section of the content policy is wiki creators discretion. [05:54:27] The requesting user must verify that a wiki of the same topic does not exist. However, no one has the patience for that. The problem is biting newcomers with this, for sure this user never knew about another wiki first because of limited notoriety. [05:56:17] > im hopping on irc [05:56:23] Really alot of this needs clarified though as this is really all open to interpretation. [05:57:43] That's it. This includes defamation/attacks/swearing on other wikis, but a user requesting a wiki accidentally "duplicate", for me it's only if the user knows of the wiki's existence, which is probably the intention to create a concurrence. [05:58:11]