[02:56:28] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Lake> looks like the UK finance ministry made a Discord server?
[02:56:37] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Lake> lol
[06:32:28] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> It's read only
[06:32:38] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> But yes Treasury have a discord server
[11:57:20] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Blad> I just joined it
[11:57:32] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Blad> It's already getting chaotic
[16:34:06] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> Speaking of chaos, this is a great way to grind a company into dust:
[16:34:07] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/nov/16/elon-musk-gives-twitter-staff-deadline-to-commit-to-being-hardcore
[16:34:08] <MirahezeBot>	 [url] Elon Musk gives Twitter staff deadline to commit to being ‘hardcore’ | Elon Musk | The Guardian | www.theguardian.com
[16:34:36] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <raidarr> hardcore knuckleheads barreling into oblivion with unclear direction changing like the weather?
[16:34:40] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <raidarr> Sounds easy enough
[16:35:22] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> A midnight ultimatum to commit to a minimum of 80 hour work-weeks without additional pay within the next 24 hours or receive 3 months severance.  Sure, what could go wrong?
[16:36:53] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> I'm upping my bet on twitter services going offline before end of year, I'll say that much.
[17:01:12] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Reception123> Heh you're not even allowed to work more than 48 hours in the EU I believe, and in many countries limits are even lower
[17:54:46] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Han> I really hope they stay up. twitter is an important source in my area of interest
[18:04:32] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> Same, though I'm heartened to see more and more of the communities I follow come to consensus on backup plans.  It's verging more towards when rather than if at this point.
[18:04:52] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> Same, though I'm heartened to see more and more of the communities I follow come to consensus on backup plans.  It's verging more towards when rather than if re: technical collapse at this point. (edited)
[18:36:33] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <raidarr> yeah, time to look into alternatives
[18:36:42] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <raidarr> if it wasn't the moment shenanigans started
[18:43:34] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> Yeah, one of those "I'll get to it eventually" things, didn't seem like it would go so far afield so quickly.
[18:56:07] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> Not sure about EU but UK has Working Time Regulations 1998
[18:56:13] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> You can opt out though
[18:57:20] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Reception123> Yeah those are actually from the EU
[18:57:56] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Reception123> but iirc you can't get fired for not opting out so Elon Musk's plan would certainly not work in the EU or the UK
[18:58:41] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Reception123> but either way I don't think it's very common in Europe (unless I'm mistaken) for people to work more than 40/45 hours per week except for some specific sectors that demand a lot of work
[18:59:30] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> Playing calvinball with labor laws generally doesn't end well for the instigator.
[18:59:50] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Reception123> I think the US is quite lax compared to the EU (and UK) when it comes to labour laws
[18:59:59] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> EU Working Time Directive 2003
[19:00:07] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Reception123> Ah yeah, that'd be it
[19:00:08] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> US Labour laws don't exist
[19:00:46] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> Oh 100%, they're weak as hell.  But still, there are consequences when you don't adhere to even the barest minimums.
[19:00:53] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Reception123> But yeah, I think generally the EU/UK is way more concerned with workers' health and safety than the US. It's quite shocking to hear some people could be made to work 80 hours per week
[19:01:08] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> It also enforces rest periods
[19:01:27] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Reception123> and unions are also stronger in Europe so I think there'd clearly be strikes if that happened (and no, people couldn't be fired for that)
[19:01:54] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Reception123> Personally I don't believe in such work hours as I think people are way less productive if they're overworked like that
[19:02:29] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> Yeah.  US largely relies on report of labor law breaches by the employees and nominally has protections for those that report against retaliation.
[19:02:30] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> 
[19:02:31] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> In practice, it doesn't always work out that way.
[19:03:03] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> Yeah.  US largely relies on report of labor law breaches by the employees and nominally has protections for those that report against retaliation.
[19:03:04] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> 
[19:03:05] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> In practice, it doesn't always work out that way.  And salary-overtime exempt positions generally get abused more than they should to skirt rest period restrictions. (edited)
[19:04:03] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> Yeah.  US largely relies on report of labor law breaches by the employees and nominally has protections for those that report against retaliation.
[19:04:03] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> 
[19:04:05] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> In practice, it doesn't always work out that way.  And salary-overtime exempt positions generally get abused more than they should to skirt rest period statutes.
[19:04:06] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> 
[19:04:07] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> Also, don't get me started on right-to-work, the weakening of unions, and loosening of rules for private equity firms.  We could be here most of the day. 😄 (edited)
[19:05:43] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Reception123> Heh here it's quite the opposite. And while I don't have any first hand knowledge afaik in the US people can easily be fired for almost anything (except their race or things like that)
[19:05:58] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Reception123> in Europe you actually need a reason to fire people, you can't just decide to do it one day because you feel like it
[19:06:49] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Reception123> Of course different EU and European countries have different standards but overall even the weakest one in terms of labour laws is still way stronger than the US I'm sure
[19:18:51] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> One day we'll have saner labor practices on this continent.  One day.  Hopefully we do away with the health insurance scheme currently in place at the same time.
[19:19:10] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> One day we'll have saner labor practices on this continent.  One day.  
[19:19:10] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> 
[19:19:11] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> Hopefully we do away with the health insurance scheme currently in place at the same time, but that's probably a heavier lift.  So much money tangled up in that mess. (edited)
[19:23:30] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Reception123> Heh that part is another thing  that us Europeans find odd in the US
[19:26:30] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> Brian David Gilbert did a comedic but informative video on our special slice of existential hell that is the US health insurance system: 
[19:26:30] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> 
[19:26:32] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wpHszfnJns
[19:26:32] <MirahezeBot>	 [YouTube] ⁨A terrible guide to the terrible terminology of U.S. Health Insurance⁩ | 30m 19s | Channel: ⁨brian david gilbert⁩ | 1,451,742 views | 2022-09-26 - 16:15:00UTC
[19:26:53] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Reception123> That's interesting
[19:56:45] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> My life insurance certificate turned up today
[20:12:44] <ugochimobi>	 Hmm, RhinosF1 what does that mean then?
[20:13:15] <RhinosF1>	 ugochimobi: if I die, my family get an extra £100k to cover costs
[20:13:50] <ugochimobi>	 ah
[20:14:16] <ugochimobi>	 interesting
[20:15:28] <ugochimobi>	 RhinosF1, please live long for us :)
[20:15:31] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Gummiel> I always found life insurance to be such a funny concept, since you essentially pay for someone else to get money if something happens xD
[20:15:56] <RhinosF1>	 I mean you're paying to look after people
[20:23:03] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> Mhmm.  It's a weird concept, but not the worst idea esp. in countries without good survivor benefits.  
[20:23:05] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> 
[20:23:06] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> I've got enough folks to look after, they've got 5 years salary coming their way if I suddenly vanish off this mortal coil.
[20:31:08] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Gummiel> Ohh I never said it was a bad concept for sure, just funny, and quite different from other more "traditional" insurance types
[20:39:06] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> It's to ensure that the people behind can grieve without worrying about money
[20:39:32] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> From various sources, about 6x my salary would be covered
[20:39:48] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> And it would cover all expenses a few times over
[20:40:26] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> Traditional insurance is insurance that doesn't pay out
[20:42:02] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Gummiel> Hmm I geuss yeah in a way Life insurance is the only Insurance you can be insured (pun intended) will be paid out at some point indeed xD
[20:44:59] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> You can get nice insurers
[20:45:05] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> They are just hard to find
[20:56:51] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Gummiel> Well not so much about them being nice or not, but just in an ideal world you would never need most of your insurances to be paid out, as what you are insuring hopefully never breaks or whatever it is the insurance covers. Though if there is one thing that is true, it is that we will all die at some point, hence a life insurance at some point would be paid out.
[21:17:03] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> In an ideal world, I'd still want checkups
[21:17:08] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> Which my insurance pay for
[21:17:18] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> I have medical insurance
[21:17:35] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> Medical, home, travel is one company
[21:18:10] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Gummiel> Well in an ideal world(like here in Denmark where I live), Medical Checkup are paid over the tax 😉
[21:18:27] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> @Gummiel I could too
[21:18:29] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> I'm UK
[21:18:39] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> But private care is quicker
[21:19:00] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> NHS = appointment in a few days
[21:19:08] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <RhinosF1> Private = within 4 hours 24/7
[22:25:51] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <paladox> remember when it was undee 48h under labour but under the tories they've left it to so long like months but now their target is 2 weeks lmao
[22:26:22] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <paladox> (the target is probably out the window and they won't achive it like everything they say)
[22:40:28] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> Still better than any US care.  Primary Care from anything other than a walk-in clinic, anywhere from 3 days to 3 weeks.  
[22:40:29] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> For some specialists?  You're lucky to get in under two months.
[22:40:43] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> Still better than US care.  Primary Care from anything other than a walk-in clinic, anywhere from 3 days to 3 weeks.  
[22:40:43] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <NotAracham> For some specialists?  You're lucky to get in under two months. (edited)