[18:20:28] [1/2] I was looking through the Economist's Democracy Index and I noticed something a little unexpected. Of the top 10 countries for democracy: 5 are monarchies (Norway, New Zealand, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands); and of the bottom 10 countries: 9 are republics and 1 (Afghanistan) is an Emirate. [18:20:28] [2/2] Are monarchies (in particular, ones with only ceremonial powers) good for democracy? [18:42:01] @El komodos drago#0357, interesting question, and good to hear from you again. In general, I personally think so. Perhaps counter-intuitively if not ironically, I think constitutional monarchies perform the role they've intended to do, to hold the keys to parliamentary and governmental power free from political theatre/politics and, in doing so, protect our constitutional frameworks. I personally don't love King Charles for largely [18:42:01] personal reasons, but I don't doubt he will be a good monarch and fulfill the role his dear mum (yes, I intentionally British spelling of that word :D) did [18:42:34] dmehus: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T335851#8869692 [18:42:53] I also don't love that the monarch's representatives tend to be academics or celebrities, at least in Canada, but I would hate to have an elected head of state more [18:43:00] RhinosF1: looking [18:43:25] dmehus: you were asking about what replaces central auth [18:45:23] RhinosF1: yep, that's great. Thanks for linking me that task! Subscribed [18:46:00] dmehus: #affects-Miraheze is worth being a member [18:46:27] You are! [18:46:40] RhinosF1: oh, is it not the #Miraheze-Linked column of #User:RhinosF1 anymore? [18:46:55] dmehus: nope [18:46:59] Now it's own project [18:47:31] Oh, nice :) [18:47:35] Thanks for adding me :) [18:48:32] I think I moved everyone when Andre split it [18:48:39] All tasks were moved across [18:53:06] oh [18:53:08] cool [18:53:41] heh yeah it did kinda deserve its own project [18:54:06] It did [18:59:37] There are actually configuration settings for shared user tables in native MediaWiki that effectively simulate CentralAuth; ShoutWiki takes advantage of these [19:00:01] No they don't [19:01:41] Hey dmehus, nice to see you again. [19:03:06] There's a thread in which a ShoutWiki staff member states that they use the settings: http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Talk:Main_Page#This_site_is_still_alive%3F [19:03:30] @Tali64 [19:03:37] hi tali, how are you today [19:03:47] Fine, how are you? [19:04:03] I am also good thank you. [19:04:24] Ngl, $wgSharedDB and $wgSharedTables is what I use for my own wiki network. [19:04:45] Despite my weak support, you still do the wiki builder task very well, congratulations [19:04:55] @Tali64 [19:05:39] They don't simulate everything central auth does [19:05:55] Yeah, they can come somewhat closer than they could otherwise. [19:06:53] Not everything, but the unified login that CentralAuth provides (minus the list of attached wikis, since user accounts on ShoutWiki are tied to every wiki regardless of whether a user has visited it) [19:07:34] Yeah that could be a setback or an improvement depending on how you look at it. (For sharing user accounts everywhere on the farm/network.) [19:07:37] Shared tables aren't supposed to be single sign on [19:07:46] With CentralAuth you can find out which wikis you are logged into, which is an advantage anyway. [19:08:10] Yeah well, CA is harder to setup for some. [19:08:23] I could be wrong, but the instructions are not the best. [19:08:43] Example: [[Special:CentralAuth/HeyTürkiye]] [19:08:43] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:CentralAuth/HeyT%c3%bcrkiye [19:08:43]

[19:08:46] yeah [19:09:01] I've entered 100 wikis, I can see it from here [19:09:12] CA is an operational nightmare [19:09:25] So I've heard [19:09:38] They keep saying $wgSharedDB is better. [19:09:41] It's an unmaintained pile of technical debt that browsers don't like [19:09:50] lol [19:10:01] SharedDB is better for most cases [19:10:21] Yeah, for a small network like mine...I believe it'll do. [19:10:27] Yes [19:10:37] has ca caused any problems on miraheze? [19:10:43] Yes [19:10:46] Very [19:10:50] About to say I wouldn't be surprised [19:10:55] CA is a nightmare [19:11:08] One of the major security issues was central auth [19:11:19] oh boy [19:11:21] That was a fun evening [19:11:36] The easiest example off top of mind: accounts that are attached to ~1500+ wikis have a hell of a time logging in, though exact depth of 'hell' varies. [19:11:58] Oh yes it doesn't scale [19:12:04] At all well [19:12:15] We need CentralAuth though for now [19:12:21] It will break eventually [19:12:29] We'll need to replace it [19:12:40] With something better [19:12:59] CentralAuthV5 probably by Wikimedia's naming pattern [19:13:06] i mean i dont really think CA was built for that many wikis [19:13:16] No it wasn't [19:13:25] I mean it wasn't built for much [19:14:58] IIRC, wasn't it just a quick-and-dirty central authentication solution for the myriad projects under the WMF banner? Not really designed for a full-scale farm... [19:16:13] The SUL unification was a huge project [19:16:38] In true WMF style it's a critical component with no owner and no plan [22:23:57] dmehus, when you get a chance could you look at your private messages? Thanks [22:32:04] Hypercane, sure, will do now, sorry [22:32:07] thanks for the reminder [22:32:30] heh at least every time I come back, I still get lots of DMs :P [22:33:36] no problem and lol