[00:30:07] reading this is funny considering a fandom star tried to come into here to spy on migrating wikis, and they shat on miraheze in the wiki.gg server lmao [01:03:17] I'm convinved that person was a troll theres no way a living person would think fandom is good jihgvfctgyh [01:08:10] person? [01:22:20] some people do truly unironically enjoy fandom [01:22:36] nothing against them I suppose. There are some merits to they way they run things [01:23:06] fandom employees also tend to get paid more for being a shill [01:23:14] so interpret as you must [01:28:15] ah yeah [01:29:02] and I mean I do sorta have to use it for like one thing (my singing monsters, but I may make my own miraheze wiki for this eventually but for now its just the bugapedia) [02:49:38] If you wanna use Fandom theres nothing wrong with that. It's your choice, they do some stuff better then Mira [02:49:54] if you value those things over what Miraheze has go for it [02:50:07] It's a choice and an opinion [02:50:24] No point in harrasing someone for it [11:56:04] Like what? (Generally curious, if there's space for MH to improve!) [11:59:55] probably default set of templates, that's the only advantage fandom has over other farms (and only for newbies, exprienced editors/admin would rather start from scratch) [12:40:21] [1/2] Re what fandom has: a lot more newbie-friendly ime. more community support (in the sense of "how do i grow my wiki/make a good community"). guides that explain basic things like templates and categories (yes you can read mediawiki documentation but most new people don't even know that documentation exists). Larger support community. SEO. Just overall easier to get your footing as a [12:40:22] [2/2] newcomer because you get default templates and categories, and they have a sort of "to-do" thing to get your wiki running. You get a forums discussion thingy. Message walls are easier to use for newbies compared to traditional talk pages. Some of this functionality you can get on Mira or other wiki platforms (or indie wiki) but that requires additional setup. [12:43:16] Those were the sort of things that I found helpful as a newbie. Of course not everyone needs or wants these things especially if you're more experienced. But a lot of people wanting to make wikis are not experienced and fandom has a much lower barrier of entry if you have no idea what you're doing [13:00:07] I barely looked at fandom guides, I simply was looking at exosting wikis [13:00:47] the only thing good i can say about fandom as a user is that some wikis have amazing tables [13:01:16] wiki.gg doesn't even have discussion tools, which I now always put into instead of raw talk pages on Mira [13:01:48] [1/2] fandom lets you host shitty wikis. no seriously. a lot of people will make wikis for some weird niche garbage and thats their entry into the world of wikis as a whole. [13:01:48] [2/2] Furthermore as a free service, the end result is honestly pretty impressive. [13:03:11] funny you say that when fandom staff loves to delete niche wikis w/o warning [13:04:17] I didnt say longevity was any good [13:04:19] Yeah this says it better then i could [13:04:48] I just mean that people's first interaction with any form of any wikis is near exclusively fandom or inexplicably the Super Mario Wiki [13:05:38] wanna know what my first non Wikipedia wiki site was? fucking Lurkmore lol [13:06:36] Yeah my first wiki was fandom, but it was the wiki of a minecraft server I played on, I just wanted a page for my character [13:06:44] exactly [13:07:34] even though neocities or something would be far better, the barrier to entry with wikis is low enough more people will opt to do it [13:09:27] My first was the Saw fandom wiki because I wasn't allowed to watch the movies lol [13:18:33] <_terbo> fandom more like terrible [13:18:38] <_terbo> please laugh [13:19:00] when I didn't know better Wikia seemed very much alright [13:19:11] back then more customization was allowed as well [13:19:30] and I personally hated the Monobook/Hydra layot [13:20:32] but the support also was better? [13:21:53] <_terbo> fandom WAS fine [13:22:00] <_terbo> and IS fine if youa rent taking things that seriously or deep [13:22:07] <_terbo> most of the time an adblocker does wlel enough [13:22:25] <_terbo> but for the most part any semi-serious project suffers from fandom and limits your capabilities [13:23:07] [1/2] I've adopted one cartoon wiki in 2016, and it was only about single pilot episode, but I got fixated, and it was the first wiki I "owned" alone, it became my sandbox, I was learning templates and css and stuff here [13:23:08] [2/2] it remained absolutely obscure and niche untill the cartoon finally came out in 2019 [13:23:31] wiki started getting tractions, it became significantly more active, I stopped being the sole editor [13:24:10] and soon it got asigned a fandom manager? I don't remember the correct term, but basically offered help and stuff [13:25:19] nobody invited her here, there was no bad precedents f(at that moment) either [13:25:23] <_terbo> fandom's good when everyone on board is sensible [13:25:27] they were monitoring wikis [13:25:34] <_terbo> the only problem is i dont think fandom is as good when it comes to unsensible people [13:25:46] <_terbo> cant even private a certain amount of pages [13:26:15] but shit exploded later w/ controversy about series creator and lo and behold - vandalism [13:27:05] there was like 3 waves of it, in the span of 2 months, and I still was the only admin, so yeah, she helped me, and I didn't have to reach her out [13:29:42] <_terbo> what community is this [13:29:47] <_terbo> every fucking indie community ever: [13:30:13] <_terbo> griefers are the worst tho [13:30:16] <_terbo> good morning [13:30:20] <_terbo> for anyone specifically where i live [13:30:42] Twelve Forever, I very much left it in late 2019 and gave blessing to new admins in 2021? [13:32:01] <_terbo> ah [13:32:07] <_terbo> idk what that is [13:32:11] <_terbo> but the community sounds lovely! not [13:32:49] I rarely consider myself a part of any "commuinity" or "fandom" tbh [13:32:53] hard to explain [13:33:18] I'd rather enjoy a thing and my fixation alone or in a small close circle [13:33:19] basically a fan but not part of the wider community [13:33:30] <_terbo> yeha [13:33:36] hey that's fine. if you're a fan, you're a fan [13:33:36] <_terbo> theres "Fan" then theres "Fandom" [13:33:47] <_terbo> to be fair theres a lot of lovely fandoms like the celeste community that i can get behind [13:33:51] <_terbo> but some communities [13:33:52] <_terbo> well [13:33:53] doesn't really matter if you choose to enjoy it alone or with the rest i guess [13:33:56] funny thing is that I saw the unfolding of that controversy in a discord server [13:34:00] <_terbo> its kind of hard to ignore the bad side and so you just prefer to say you arent in the fandom [13:34:07] <_terbo> i bet the controversy was something dumb too [13:34:28] vocal minority issues [13:35:24] it was strange kind of thing [13:35:50] someone scrolled creator's tumblr as far back to 2010 and found really weird posts [13:36:05] concerning, but then presented as jokes [13:37:04] knowing that her page gonna be vandalized no matter what I first decided to just lock it, but then started getting accusations of supporting her [13:37:09] <_terbo> ME WHEN I MAKE A CONTROVERSIAL JOKE 10 YEARS AGO [13:37:21] <_terbo> (it will be brought up in 10 years time to inevitably ruin my career) [13:37:29] <_terbo> this is why i hate cancel culture viscerally [13:38:22] that staff girl helped me to overcome those accusations too, but then I decided to just delete the page [13:38:31] and made a post in a blog [13:38:44] yeah, everyone shut up eventually [13:39:10] surprised that the deletion didn't blow it up even more [13:39:14] <_terbo> i always respect fandoms that can handle drama [13:39:27] <_terbo> unfortunately in todays age theres always going to be people who will blindly follow drama with minimal proof [13:39:41] <_terbo> when theres the slightest amount of quote unquote "evidence" then someone will bring it up [13:39:48] <_terbo> anyone looking to cause drama anyways [13:49:28] The amount of times I’ve seen twenty page mald documents of staff abuse with ZERO actual evidence [13:50:42] It’s hilarious [13:50:54] People get so worked up over Funni block game [13:55:56] <_terbo, replying to pixldev> THIS [13:55:59] <_terbo> this is what sucks about long documents [13:56:06] <_terbo> people will just see a certain aomutn of pages and go "yeah this is legitimate" [13:56:20] <_terbo> and then you read the document and realise its a whole bunch of pointing fingers and about 10 pages of nothing [13:57:56] <_terbo> anyways i didnt know the miraheze server was chill like this [14:00:26] same [14:19:45] [1/2] Cancel culture would be really funny in my case, as really the only thing I remember from back then that was questionable was me being homophobic and/or transphobic [14:19:45] [2/2] And im like very VERY openly queer these days [14:20:37] And the rest is just stuff people might not agree with like me not supporting gross stuff [14:42:19] Daaaaaaang [14:52:20] lololol [14:57:14] I don’t like the new wiki cause I used to use the heat my computer gave off to heat my house1!1!1!1!1 [15:33:18] imagine buying an rtx graphics card to render a wiki [15:33:41] lol [15:44:27] Lmao [17:08:58] i'm just [17:09:03] gonna drop this here [17:10:12] waht [17:10:21] is that about [17:17:20] that is the stupidest shit i've seen [17:17:29] an unethical law is manslaughter [17:17:48] man enters my home and threatens me, i shoot him, i get charged because i abided by the second amendment [17:17:58] you see the problem [17:18:15] an ethical law is something like age of consent, that's perfectly fine [17:18:31] there's a difference between disgusting and perfectly okay [17:21:24] this was so dumb i had to join the server to dig into it more [17:42:27] ..Lucy [17:42:37] What are you on and where can I get some of this shit [17:47:22] I wouldn't actually be surprised if some the things fandom do (or don't do) might be borderline illegal in the EU, not sure at all though, so take that with a grain of salt [17:48:25] I would be surprised if fandom's behaviours weren't anti-competitive [17:49:01] Not sure if @owenrb knows anything about EU competion law [17:49:48] the cookies consent is borderline scam, even if it says the category is disabled, you expand it and half of the stuff inside is enabled [17:50:17] there are about 200 switches, maybe more [17:52:22] I'm not too au fait with EU competition law [17:56:06] It looks complex and something you'd need counsel to understand tbh [17:56:48] I think it would be a hard barrier to claim they are abusing a dominant position [17:58:22] And an even harder barrier to claim it's worth investigation [18:00:08] That is the unfortunate truth of most matters of laws. Though with both google and facebook even been hit by EA laws lately, it does prove that noone is truely safe from it [18:10:25] Google and Facebook are big though [18:10:29] Authorities care [19:53:05] HELPPP THIS IS SO FUCKING FUNNY [19:54:39] [1/2] wonder if lucy would say this about zoophilia/bestiality being legal in some countries [19:54:39] [2/2] hate this kind of argument it means Nothing [20:19:59] Fuck Now i’m curious ☠️ [20:22:03] Related thing Markus sent https://xkcd.com/1172/ [21:50:25] <.yowin> at least I tried [21:50:49] huh [21:51:37] <.yowin> I just tried to get all my images but fandom said no [21:52:58] oh, you can't [21:53:09] but I never knew it does it like that lol [21:53:17] you'll have to use a third party script [21:53:34] scrapping images from fandom is against their tos or whatever [21:53:38] burg [22:03:24] <.yowin, replying to theoneandonlylegroom> Yeah that's what we are trying to do with a friend dev I don't even understand what he is doing with python that's hypnotizing [22:16:47] lol that is honestly kind of funny xD [22:23:02] <.yowin, replying to .yowin> update: I beat fandom and got my 7242 images [22:28:01] WOW [22:28:42] o rly? [22:29:21] I do not in any endorse it but there is https://github.com/mediawiki-client-tools/mediawiki-dump-generator to download images I believe, I also think image scraping is against Fandom TOS [22:29:42] yeah, it is deemed illegal [22:29:47] so shhh [22:29:49] Survey Deez nuts [22:29:57] I DO NOT ENDORE THIS [22:30:59] <.yowin, replying to pixldev> I did got my images with a python script, and I don't care, almost all images are screenshots done by myself [22:41:08] [1/2] how? fandom doesn't own the the rights to the images. that belongs to the creators. [22:41:08] [2/2] plus, if the images are licensed under creative commons or similar, fandom has no say over their use elsewhere as long as proper attribution is given (per the license) to the original author/creator [22:41:33] ikr [22:41:37] it's like [22:41:52] you allowed to download every file manually [22:42:01] one by one lol [22:42:12] but using scrapper is a no-no [22:42:22] but again - nobody cares [22:42:36] hell, there's still pcj's node.js script lol [22:44:34] so, fandom expects everyone to trust them to have a proper backup of every wiki and its images, since they won't let you do that. [22:44:46] I understand why they say no to scraping from a IT standpoint, but with their infra its unrealistic [22:45:56] right, they never do even xml backups unless on request [22:46:13] like again, the rest case w/ a wiki which was deleted accidentally [22:46:21] no way to recover, no backups [22:47:27] Backups, like full entire databases of wiki’s are large as hell, even for Miraheze [22:48:12] but we talk about fandom, the self proclaimed most stable etc wiki farm lol [22:48:24] <_terbo> "most stable" [22:48:39] [1/2] Yeah, but Miraheze allows me to do a database dump, so if there's some other failure, there's what I might have. [22:48:39] [2/2] vs. not being allowed to have anything. [22:48:40] <_terbo> they're only stable because they forcibly prevent you from removing wikis that have been ported [22:48:45] small MIraheze pulls stuff that a corpo platform can't [22:49:24] Its not that they can’t, its that they answer to shareholders and make a profit [22:49:44] yeah exactly [22:50:47] Where as Miraheze only answers to the community and its board of directors, and all money it earns goes back into the project [22:51:59] clearly shows who cares about community [22:52:09] Oh? [22:52:19] <_terbo> YEAHH my wiki got accepted [22:52:35] WOOOOOO [22:53:44] <_terbo> time to painstakingly learn everything [22:54:05] Remember there’s always people here willing to help [22:54:10] One does not simply learn all of MediaWiki [22:54:43] They provide XML backups on the Stats page wdym [22:55:20] Oh yea my friend jermy tried to learn all of mediawiki [22:55:30] still hasnt come out of his room [22:55:58] [1/2] key word on request [22:55:58] [2/2] it's not generate automatically, it doesn't update [22:56:39] Tmk an admin may press a button to update the dump [22:57:08] yea [23:05:42] would love to know more about this if youre able/willing to share [23:06:05] if you need help, we are here to help :) [23:08:16] 😂 [23:09:04] https://fxtwitter.com/WHA_Wiki/status/1716949107338826109 [23:09:58] Dang it beat me to it [23:10:14] ☠️ ☠️ [23:10:29] Ex-fucking-scuse me? [23:10:34] huh. small world i am helping their english wiki form [23:10:45] oh so they decided to fork [23:10:49] or at least trying. one of their staff is super weird about standing [23:11:46] I can only guess they drop data base immediately [23:11:58] after deletion [23:12:58] wait is each wiki on a wiki farm a seperate MariaDB? [23:13:05] I dunno [23:13:18] I never looked much into how Farms work [23:13:49] that or prefixing table names is all i can think of [23:13:58] Former makes more sense imo [23:14:04] even after deletion per mira dormancy policy, db isn't dropped till sre does it, I recall [23:14:13] Yeah [23:14:26] iirc the current backlog is 5 months [23:33:47] [1/2] never thought about this, but it kinda makes sense [23:33:47] [2/2] when you consider each wiki needs to build its own templates, images, categories, etc. [23:34:02] then again, i only have very basic knowledge of this kind of stuff [23:40:14] Images are stored in a file directory so idk how that works [23:40:24] all the rest are in various db tables