[01:34:42] @marxismleninism hi [01:35:27] hi [01:41:45] Why can't private wikis host legal content that is against Miraheze content policies? [01:42:12] Because Miraheze Content Policy is only superseded by law [01:42:22] Just like a company that you work for would have policies [01:42:28] Or a school you attend would have them too [01:42:33] we have policies about what we want to host and what we don't want to host, that's it [01:42:40] If you don't like it, you can try a free web host [01:42:49] because that's not how platforms work, period [01:42:51] I'd also like to add - I don't really think we restrict all that much? [01:43:01] you follow the rules of the platform or you do not use the platform [01:43:08] We don't allow problematic content - what types of content would you want, anyway? [01:43:11] That’s the point of a content policy? Just because it’s not public don’t mean its immune. We host. We decied what we host. Simple as that [01:43:35] The basic question we all are eager to know the answer to is... What is it you want to have on your wiki! [01:43:58] On a platform called notebook.ai, you are allowed to have anything legal in a private world. [01:43:58] If I offer a locker service that don’t allow you to store humans limbs, I don’t care if the general public won’t see it [01:44:06] cook [01:44:16] we aren’t notebook.ai? [01:44:18] If you are unable to follow the policies that Miraheze has set forth, then Miraheze is not for you. [01:44:20] we aren't notebook.ai [01:44:22] Simple as that. [01:44:25] I never got super in to the platform because it doesn't resemble wikipedia enough. [01:44:30] good for notebook.ai, that's not miraheze [01:44:36] Self. Host. [01:44:43] Money. [01:44:48] and [01:44:48] What’s new [01:44:50] oh well [01:45:02] Nothing free is truly free [01:45:10] miraheze will not change its policies for your empty wallet [01:45:58] [1/4] You aren't getting any love here from anyone. Here are your options: [01:45:58] [2/4] 1) Agree to follow Miraheze's policies - we don't restrict much and are happy to host wikis for you. [01:45:58] [3/4] 2) Self host. [01:45:59] [4/4] 3) Find another platform to host your content. [01:46:09] If you don’t put into the work or investment to get what you want. You don’t get to bitch about not getting what you want. [01:46:32] miraheze is for community members :p [01:47:03] When I say truly free I mean without any rules, aka no content policy [01:47:11] ah yes [01:47:14] I have no issue with it obvi [01:47:16] Going to ask that tone stays civil here, please and thank you [01:47:37] Sorry- I can get a bit snarky, my apologies [01:47:38] I choose 1 but I will still actively advocate for the policy change. [01:47:49] it will not be changed [01:47:58] It is not logical. [01:48:05] It will eventually be changed with enough support. [01:48:06] I'm genuinely curious here: what policy change are you seeking? [01:48:08] miraheze has come too far and had too many people abuse its goodwill in more liberal times, it is not logical for it to undo years of progress [01:48:09] What is it you want to change in the first place [01:48:10] Like what clause, specifically? [01:48:11] We are community run. Get the community’s opinion [01:48:23] To allow private wikis to host anything legal in their country. [01:48:35] I'm curious what sort of content you'd want to host that's legal but against the content policy. Like, what specific clause do you have a problem with? [01:48:49] They won’t prob argee with you. Thats not a prediciton, it’s a spoiler :/ [01:48:51] the issue seems to be more principle of it [01:49:19] Right, but what are you looking to host? Is it the principle of a Content Policy itself for private wikis, or a specific clause in the Content Policy that you'd like to host and isn't allowed? [01:50:03] yeah i am very curious what they are trying to post that breaks content policy lol [01:50:10] The principle of a Content Policy itself for private wikis. [01:50:42] [1/3] If you want to rent a room in my house, fine, but I state that you're not allowed to smoke. [01:50:42] [2/3] You can agree to that, or complain but abide, or find another house to rent a room. [01:50:42] [3/3] Same principle aplies here. [01:50:43] I believe you may be looking at the term “private” incorrectly in this case. No offense meant. [01:50:52] It's a speculative hard-core science fiction project that might take a controversial turn. [01:50:56] [1/2] Good to know. Here's my answer: [01:50:56] [2/2] No wiki is truly private. SRE, the Board, Trust and Safety, and Stewards are permitted to access any wiki at any time. [01:50:59] How so? [01:52:40] And the main page is public to everyone as well [01:53:13] [1/3] I don't have clear plans on the controversial content and may never even make it, but: [01:53:13] [2/3] 1. If the wiki takes an NSFW turn, it will inevitably take a controversial/possibly offensive turn. [01:53:13] [3/3] 2. Just the very thought of a limitation to what I can make can drastically crash my motivation. [01:53:22] You could just make a page with “go away, or go to [[Mainer Page]]” [01:53:22] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Mainer_Page [01:53:22]

[01:53:49] [1/2] 1. What type of offensive turn? [01:53:50] [2/2] 2. That's on you. We can't cater to every single person. [01:54:06] Are you intending to document or write it on Miraheze? [01:54:55] Yes, but because it looks the most wiki-like (uses MediaWiki), does not have page or storage limit, and is pretty great compared to Fandom. [01:55:16] tbqh it should get a storage limit [01:55:23] The offensive turn is something I would rather have through DMs. [01:55:30] Feel free to send through [01:55:31] My apologies for the miscommunication. I asked, are you going to write, OR, document [01:55:35] or be less willing to soak up hundreds of gigabytes for horribly inefficiently uploaded foot pictures [01:55:36] my DMs are always open [01:55:48] But whatever I say in the DMs, will I get banned on the server for it? [01:55:54] no [01:55:56] This is assuming I'm only communicating the ideas. [01:55:58] No, you will not [01:56:30] The fact you’re asking worries me slightly. But I appreciate the consideration in not sending it here [01:57:04] generally the only subject in creative writing (by experience) that tends to cause a run-in is when it ends up involving kids in particular detail [01:57:30] Feel free to send through and I will review [01:57:47] ew hopefully that isnt the case [01:57:48] That’s, um, certainly a way of putting it [01:58:09] I must concur with Eri on the matter [01:58:11] I never had to actually deal with a wiki that crossed that line and resulted in action but it's the only content policy vein we have which I've seen end up in the 'too controversial to host' camp [01:58:29] in regards to controversial worldbuilding/writing [01:59:07] Also someone remind me: modification of Content Policy is subject to the board, correct? [01:59:29] it is modified by community vote [01:59:38] Right [01:59:40] the board has generally little involvement except in the current case [01:59:45] Wasn’t sure [01:59:48] Thankd [01:59:53] the Board can technically do whatever it wants to :trollgod: [02:00:07] time to ban non-fiction wikis [02:00:10] an sre dude can technically do, well, anything [02:00:45] If you think about it, peer pressure is what keeps Miraheze together and in check [02:00:49] @human8462 curious did you decide not to send? [02:00:56] don't see anything in my DMs [02:01:05] :ThinkingHardMH: [02:01:11] holdup [02:01:18] there's a good point in there [02:02:05] @agentisai smartest thing I've heard all day [02:02:19] and it's actually good that MH works that way when you think about it. [02:03:23] sometimes [02:03:43] depends on how receptive the person is to their peers [02:04:04] naleksuh [02:04:08] I believe that the community as a whole exists of a few dedicated volunteers that want the best for the future. Too many couldn't be bothered, just like in real life. Anything that is far from their bed, keeps them apathic. But if something limits them, their aggression comes up. Unfortunately, that is even more so online, as we can "feel" anonymous on the internet. [02:04:27] Very true [02:06:16] Yeah, if something is hard then some people just don't bother [02:06:25] but we must be industrious [02:06:42] I'm sure we both know a thing or two about hard work \:P [02:11:48] Yeah, I believe that giving leads only to more happiness. Maybe people aren't appreciative, but I feel I have nothing to be blamed for. [02:12:57] A good reputation is good value. [02:15:05] I was busy with something. [02:17:43] Most certainly. As wisely said by our songbook, "giving reaps the greater happiness" [02:17:51] No worries [03:35:51] you don't have to describe taboo stuff in detail, just saying [05:55:02] <.labster> Did anyone ever get the skinny on what was being requested here? I'm a fanfic author and I'm working on the new content policy for Miraheze so I'm really curious. [06:16:07] fanon wikis will be allowed tho? [06:17:10] wait, does alt history counts as fanfiction of real events and people :ThinkerMH: [06:18:54] and did some poor soul believed in stuff from alt history wikis lol [06:25:07] <.labster> I’m reminded of this post from the FBI: https://leb.fbi.gov/articles/featured-articles/larping-and-violent-extremism [06:26:41] <.labster> How the duck quacks makes a big difference in whether something is fanon or misinformation, just like you aren’t LARPing if your anger is real [06:29:24] <.labster> I personally want to allow fanon wikis; if the ones we wanted to import had problems, we should look at those problems rather than banning a broad class of wikis [06:30:23] a have a concern on uh, celeb fanfiction [06:30:43] but otherwise it's harmless [06:31:02] Hey buds? Some of us just yearn for simpler times and hitting each other with foam sticks. [06:31:06] <.labster> What is that concern? [06:31:18] Perhaps with a trials and tribulations yarn attached [06:33:16] <.labster> The fact that Twilight exists is proof fanfic is not harmless [06:38:49] <.elizabethy_> Hello [06:39:04] Hi! [06:39:18] absolutely [06:39:32] I meant cases like real people shipping going out of hand [06:39:58] probably should add living [06:40:46] shipping dead peoples kinda weird too [06:40:57] need i remind you all of Jefferson Miku Binder [06:41:07] lmao yeah [06:42:30] [1/3] you can't stop shippers ofc [06:42:31] [2/3] but if it gets into a wiki form it might have a risk of misinformation/rumours source [06:42:31] [3/3] you see the thing is on ao3 and like "eh", but a wiki [06:42:40] <.labster, replying to theoneandonlylegroom> Going out of hand how? Libel, gratuitous sex? [06:42:57] parasocial [06:43:30] like that case when Sherlock fans went ballistic over something about on of actor's gf I think [06:45:41] but I guess you have more knowledge/experience, I just voiced a thing [06:50:06] <.labster> No I really don’t, I’m actually trying to understand the components. [10:56:07] Yes please. Never heard of that [10:56:47] [1/2] its not just jefferson though they did the whole cast of hamilton [10:56:47] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1200031505108447263/EQJcHOdU0AAIkV9.png?ex=65c4b36e&is=65b23e6e&hm=c1b84d56da03aabc5aa19caa172906c3b21c41dd390a957f23905a3e83c9684a& [11:00:26] this would be much preferred, I had a 'well shit' moment seeing a major class of writing just tossed out the door [11:04:09] <.labster> I'm somewhat motivated because I'm running a fanfiction wiki on Miraheze right now. [11:05:40] I'll probably never make a wiki but if I did a few have fan settings as inspiration [11:06:00] basically taking lore from starved games and making it a little more fleshed out/sane [11:06:15] i have a buncha ocs on my wiki so its a whole buncha multi-fandom stuff [11:06:55] would be reasonable for someone to inquire in the exact logic that made fandom wikis a sticking point on that rfc [11:10:42] <.labster> I keep asking, it's basically "we had to deny a bunch of questionable wikis" [11:11:51] <.labster> I wish someone would say "we don't want to host lemon" or "no real person shipping" [11:12:46] <.labster> But I also feel like it's a class distinction because fanfic is considered lower class as creative writing (and it often is worse, and skill level really does matter in how embarassing it is). [11:12:47] I don't recall fandoms necessarily being that questionable [11:13:08] but then I've been out of the loop for a long time so [11:13:33] and yes I see where the 'classism' comes from distinctly [11:13:35] <.labster> I mean, I'm watching Foundation on AppleTV now and it's totally a great fanfic of the books. [11:14:05] with modern media really driving the bar down on storytelling in IPs I would think fanfics suddenly might not be so bad [11:14:18] easier to thrive if you're compared to rings of power and not lord of the rings [11:14:59] How can you have time for that? Ispend 12 hours working on my wiki per day 😄 [11:15:04] <.labster> No, fanfiction is the original method of story telling before IP laws, where storytellers would add to other stories they've heard and embellish them. IP law has essentially stolen a whole mode of creation from us. [11:15:29] oh don't get me started on copyright and ip and that crap... [11:16:06] of all things mickey mouse is a great case study of greedy companies refusing to let go [11:16:11] ...And soon Formula1 starts again [11:17:07] Is there a Wiki about Formula1 on Miraheze? (Thinks out loud) [11:17:24] <.labster> [1/2] lately I haven't been writing. What we do have written is here, we'll likely make our wiki public after the move (British law is really bad for fanfic): http://www.accessdenied-rms.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=41&datecut=9999&prefix=0&sortby=subject&order=asc [11:17:25] <.labster> [2/2] the conceit is that universes are collapsing and characters from fiction end up in our universe, like a reverse isekai, and someone has to provide housing for them. [11:17:53] you mean like how we got "wizard of emerald city" in ussr instead of "wizard of oz"? [11:18:10] it would be funny to go from miraheze's open ends in a uk host to just not touching it in a more liberal us host [11:19:06] <.labster> Nah, it's a group project, other folks are still writing even if I'm lazy. We still have weekly meetings. [11:19:07] oh thats a cool idea [11:19:42] oh I meant from a policy perspective [11:20:04] <.labster> Ah, yeah, I get you. [11:20:40] I've mulled a bit on and off about a wiki to document my rethought plotlines for starcraft 2, based on a roleplay campaign that was partially completed in the sc2 arcade and just all the other thoughts which basically reframe everything from how units work to how the plot is executed [11:21:21] one of those things that could be nice but I know it would result in me doing a little for a week and then months of tumbleweed and repeat [11:21:59] <.labster> You sound dangerously close to original fictions there. [11:22:55] well it is very much based on the themes of starcraft and takes sc1 as completely canon [11:23:12] I was just dissatisfied with how sc2 approached it and that is basically original using the pieces of sc2 [11:24:00] had similar theories how to approach the diablo 3 story which was also a mangled mess including how to build in the character classes into a party but that is even less likely to see the light of day [11:24:02] Sc2? U mean StarCraft 2? [11:24:06] mhm [11:24:14] :EpicFaceMH: [11:24:44] Bro, all those games made by Blizz are my favourites! [11:25:00] Especially StarCraft! [11:25:23] I tend to cultivate a mostly thought and scattered notes collection of settings, a majority of the smaller ones are derivatives of IPs done 'my way' and a handful are "original" but more cleverly hidden derivatives of virtually every what-if for fantasy and sci-fi respectively [11:25:53] starcraft indeed has a crapload of potential and it went as far as theorizing how a story for three could look like [11:26:45] the third campaign I never did get far in and tbh it doesn't help that blizzard became particularly lazy in mission design by then [12:39:38] [1/2] Hi! I'm BurningBlaze05 and I've had my Miraheze page for a year. I've learnt everything from scratch (I also use Wikipedia as a guide, because I make Wikipedia articles and stuff (for F1 junior drivers and stuff) I'd rather use wikitables or create a way out of things rather then infoboxes as I suck at technology. [12:39:39] [2/2] Share your racing related wikis to me if you want, mines is very complex tho... [13:39:48] Please share a link [13:40:25] //name.miraheze.org/wiki/.... will do just fine [14:12:35] https://burningblaze05f1universe.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page [14:13:32] Your profile says your 50+. My 16 year old self feels super young now... you're the same age as my parents probably... (No offence) [14:15:19] The wiki is a WIP though. [16:06:21] no worries 😄 [16:07:44] Ah... Formula one ! Nice... [16:08:21] and the feeder series as well [16:11:13]