[00:14:55] Anyone here play D&D? [00:15:20] nope [00:22:11] Huh, kinda pegged you for the type of person who I'd think would play. Not to mean anything by it, you just seemed like someone who would to me. [00:28:29] I used to, like many years ago, before D&D got fancy and hardover and all [00:46:53] Its too confusing to remember whats going on [00:47:01] Then Fandom bought D&D beyond and that soured it for me [00:49:10] I think we can safely rename #offtopic to #fandom-hate at this point. Seriously, what are some positive things Fandom has given us? [00:50:20] it [00:50:21] what [00:50:33] Portable Infobox [00:50:35] soured [00:50:41] like when something is made sour [00:50:55] no not that [00:51:05] FANDOM OWNS DNDB???? [00:51:18] :Cursed_SkullEmoji: [00:51:41] Fandom owns a lot of things, including metacritic and TVGuide [00:52:10] OKAY [00:52:13] THEY DID [00:52:17] not anymore [00:52:18] https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/13/23023426/dungeons-and-dragons-wizards-of-the-coast-hasbro-fandom-dnd-beyond-acquisition [00:52:31] 🙏 [00:52:42] I mean the PR around WOTC isnt always great [00:52:46] but its not fandom [00:54:03] Is it just me or most of the modern internet's features can be credited to Jimbo in some way or another [00:54:25] :sus: [00:54:27] shit he noticed [00:55:20] I mean it was under Curse for a year ish, Fandom for 2 and Hasbro since 2020 [00:59:28] [1/2] Jimbo has much to thank Magnus Manke for. Magnus is a big brain behind Wiki. [00:59:29] [2/2] He was already a big name when he was still at BB-Fora. He coded most of the codes there I believe [01:05:14] BB Fora? [01:05:37] Yeah they sold it to wizards of the coast [01:05:50] The only reason they got it was becauze they wanted gamepedia [01:06:12] They also sent all of their app team off to wotc too along with it which is why the fandom app is so bad [01:09:04] Oh no it would be bad anyways [01:09:18] that just means it has slightly less features [01:11:34] https://www.phpbb.com/downloads/?sid=ad12164ac10ecc7def64f0c770c0242b [01:19:55] Those Fora were really popular at one time. [01:25:09] <.labster> I still spend more time on Forums than any other social media [01:28:23] [1/2] Oh, not saying that they aren't popular, but before there was much choice they were popping up everywhere. [01:28:23] [2/2] Now it's stable I guess [01:29:15] But I liked the phpBB 2 better than the later versions [01:29:48] I'm off to bed now. Sleep well when your time comes 😄 [01:29:55] FluxBB is kind of the peak of forum [01:29:56] 🛌 [01:30:21] phpBB reminds me od bbm [03:57:41] <.labster> [1/2] http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Anti-Wikia_Alliance [03:57:41] <.labster> [2/2] Miraheze has 4 stars, WikiTide has 5 stars, so do we only get 4.5 stars after the merger? [04:02:31] life hack: rename Miraheze to WikiTide and steal it's rating [04:09:42] it's still alive huh [04:14:16] Sounds like how averages work [04:15:22] (let's not bring weighted averages into this based on wikis hosted. 😄 ) [05:13:15] I mean (to my understanding) on the legal side, that first part at least is exactly what actually happened= [05:13:43] legally, yeah [09:33:42] phpbb is a noble effort but not forum software I'd recommend for '24 [09:34:33] the premiums have the market if you're looking for high end and anything less is going to struggle to thrive [09:48:23] <.labster> I'm kinda not sure what you mean. I don't really even think a large forum is the best forum to be on, it's nice to have a small forum where you can read everything new every day, and know all of the people. [10:07:02] I do tend to like smaller forums but there is an acute interface difference between a xenforo board and a phpbb board which, unless it was radically changed by 3.3, still feels decades behind [10:07:24] mybb is a compromise but still leaning dated [10:20:15] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1209082008907677716/image.png?ex=65e5a05e&is=65d32b5e&hm=d6043f421cdd2a6c0808ec05bd4781c3b0362130ff0066b5b63126a297fb43fa& [10:24:23] the first is moot as creation has been stopped [10:25:27] It just redirects to Miraheze when clicked, so you are better off heading to the honeycomb. [10:36:53] the two are merging yes [10:45:56] good morning lol [13:19:16] Should probably explain that [13:20:37] So people don’t get confused [14:48:18] Take into consideration the fact that WikiTide only existed for ~5-6 months before merging but managed to swipe Miraheze's top 5 wikis [14:55:02] Maybe they've been more aggressive in reaching out to the Google Bot? 😄 [15:04:59] which too wikis? [15:49:07] We have a migration FAQ, and existing WT folks have been notified. [15:49:29] WT Meta will be locked shortly too [15:49:40] Might be worth adding a site notice, though [15:49:53] I mean for new people, they hear about this WikiTide thing and go to make a wiki, but gasp are brought to this Miraheze place?!? [15:50:38] Extra oh no points if they know Miraheze as that one reception wiki farm that’s held together with hope dreams and flex tape [15:51:34] Y e a - [15:58:44] You can delete my account there, doesn't need to be merged [15:58:48] Or do I have to do that myself? [16:00:51] I don’t think you need to delete accounts [16:01:03] Mediawiki also really doesn’t love deleting accounts [16:01:10] ok [16:57:52] Hello! I am a Dirruw'o in the Meta. What standard time analysis new wiki? Sorry, I can't very well speak English. [17:00:06] Time the analysis... [17:13:46] Guest28: You mean how much time from asking for wiki to wiki being made? [17:28:21] @pixldev they disconnected prior to your response [17:29:33] Aight, thanks [19:13:07] Bro that unironically kept me from starting on Miraheze for so long [19:42:45] My point precisely [19:42:48] lol [19:44:52] :DoneMH: [20:37:31] Quick answer: How I change the navbar icons color in the Chamaleon skin [20:38:40] that's not gonna be a quick answer [20:38:48] with css [20:38:55] also did you mean question [20:39:12] Not everyone reads every single page on meta-wikis and learns it by heart, so yes, I would think showing newcomers what's what and where probably might be a good idea, make their wiki experience that bit less stressful. [20:39:14] no because i need the answer quick [20:40:28] i now that the navbar is `.p-navbar { background-color: #THECOLOR }` but the color of the icons? [20:47:01] hey...! [20:48:34] mate [20:48:45] if nobody replies it's more likely nobody knows [20:49:02] Chamaleon is not a popular skin so I have zero exprience w/ it [20:50:05] coloring of icons - unless you go and replace them, is quite pain in the ass [20:50:19] saying this from my Timeless experience [20:50:35] so I'm replacing [20:51:40] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1209240911595446303/2024-02-19_23_51_34.png?ex=65e6345b&is=65d3bf5b&hm=238dc07698c37c71c1862d31f2b69b5a2a9e7b650b29de1692277ff215a0b7f5& [20:53:42] try using the element explorer to view the elements [20:58:06] [1/2] It's over [20:58:06] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1209242530957365308/image.png?ex=65e635de&is=65d3c0de&hm=62175f8d611eb662eb199ea44eb326ecf0573e3b7c4d56758e7ddb665ef5736f& [21:01:05] <.labster> Omg, we really went for red and orange wiki?! [21:01:10] The fork has unforked [21:01:19] Nature is healing [21:01:27] Hold on was it Harej that autoblocked the entire conference after Gmaxwell mass vandalized from a alt? [21:01:42] From what I've heard [21:02:42] <.labster> I’ve never heard this story [21:03:43] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Bad_article_creation_bot found it. [21:04:36] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_stocks#Gmaxwell_for_the_Conference_Called_award [21:04:39] Wiki never forgets [21:05:21] Ah yes, the hall of fame. Going to the stocks and having a fish thrown at you is a hazing ritual for en.wikipedia it seems. [21:06:31] miraheze stocks when [21:07:43] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Stocks [21:07:58] I have to admit I never heard the story either. That's a cool one! [21:09:01] <.labster> https://melmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Screen-Shot-2019-07-31-at-5.47.12-PM.png [21:09:31] I got recently told about it. I watch ANI and ARB quite closely for entertainment value but there's always more to it. [21:09:52] we are so back [21:10:00] same [21:10:02] People still think that CheckUser is omniscient. (It's not) [21:10:19] Its raidin time [21:12:02] CheckUser isn't a magic wand [21:12:07] Russian Wikipedia is probably the one most vandalized by automated tools, and I have to admit those are pretty good. If the AWVT developer actually contributed to MediaWiki we might have so many nice things, but no. [21:12:14] That project got abandoned [21:13:33] No more so then anything else we use. [21:13:53] To the technically illiterate anything we do is as good as magic [21:14:39] [1/3] I found navbar-nav but doesn't work when putting it in chameleon.css [21:14:39] [2/3] sorry if I was a dumb dumb [21:14:40] [3/3] `.p-navbar-nav { background-color: var(--brandwhite) }` [21:14:47] [1/2] Nu-Uh! [21:14:47] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1209246728927182928/a8d23795f1bf0b70.png?ex=65e639c6&is=65d3c4c6&hm=c2e95387069b61048884b4bf63c429cd4205b0d3794c0214dfdc512a62a22d86& [21:16:49] What was anti harassment at the time tried to redo CheckUser to have some level of investigation in it [21:17:00] We type lines of weird words and numbers and symbol onto a light projecting piece of glass and plastic using plastic buttons to create the infinite complexities of wiki and internet, to be able to view render and understand ones and zeros stored half way across the world in the form of all the knowledge in the world. May one not call that magic? [21:17:04] But the output was awful and got abandoned [21:17:12] check user is like kinda doxxing [21:17:25] Hence why it’s so regulated [21:17:40] And doxxing implies it’s publicly published [21:17:58] Just assume that whenever you click the edit button on Wiki your IP and useragent will be visible at all times even when logged in [21:18:10] private doxxing [21:18:11] It’s not doxxing, but in the hands of a bad actor, it can be used to do so. [21:18:47] Any site actually, if you connect to it, assume the webmaster can know the IP [21:18:59] VPN not withstanding [21:19:42] Exactly. On all .f2esports.net sites I blank the IPs in the logs for a reason. [21:20:06] It's not doxxing [21:20:24] Access to CU data is highly controlled and heavily regulated [21:20:55] It still takes a lot to connect a IP and useragent to a flesh-and-bones human being, at least here. [21:21:18] It really doesn't [21:21:25] Not with the right tools [21:22:22] It could be a criminal offence to publish CheckUser data or perform a check without at least reasonable suspicion [21:22:42] In the states it depends. Some ISPs give you a fixed IP that traces back exactly to your house on look-up, sometimes you get a dynamic IP out of a small pool that changes daily and in cases like my secondary there are tens of thousands of IPs that rotate every time your DHCP session expires or you restart your client terminal. [21:23:15] Depends, if say I vandal as an anon at my school, you may be able to pin point a location. But the person? Nah [21:24:06] I would not even run CU until I have a beyound-a-doubt connection of multiple cases. I look it writing style, patterns, opinions, time of posting, etc and CU to add a confirmation to this. [21:24:11] or mall wifi [21:26:21] That's good [21:27:49] wikis are some of the most stringent communities on the internet with ip data short of something like discord where the chances of being in contact with someone who would have any incentive or knowledge of you directly is minuscule [21:28:24] among wikis wiki farms tend to be even more restrictive with miraheze and wikimedia among the most stringent with such access that I've ever seen, literally any forum gives far more data far more easily [21:29:21] [1/3] If I was to one day wake up and say I am going to vandalize I would have a plan. [21:29:22] [2/3] I would write a automated tool, get a good proxy list, schedule the edits in times with low RPM when nobody really watches recent changes or during high RPM where people are reverting obvious vandalism and sneaky edits can fly under the radar. I know how ClueBot and Huggle works pretty well so I would structure the edits to look "clean" to them. [21:29:22] [3/3] I would keep my main account far away from IPs and time patterns used by the socks/anon edits. Plus, I would modify my writing style to not match mine. [21:29:45] vpns aren't an end all for security but they're a nice place to start for that reason and there are many more resources than checkuser that a site admin can use including cookies, basic scripting, and fingerprinting as a general idea using methods nearly impossible to subvert client side [21:30:18] and of course any techie can in theory just take a peek [21:31:45] good proxy lists tend to be blocked on mira for similar reasons [21:32:07] though in mira's case legitimate users can pop an email and generally be fine [21:34:33] You have to remember pretty much any Huawei ONU box can be used as a proxy provided you know what you are doing and a lot of private proxy/botnet operators know about it. I looked into a lot of devices that are given to people by ISPs, and I am not going to get into detail of how pretty much every single one is exploitable for obvious reasons. [21:35:31] When you see a lot of abuse from some ranges it is very likely someone exploited a vuln in a CPE and is just using that as a proxy, we been through that. [21:43:59] At the end of the day, if all of us promised to be nice, anyone would be able to edit the main page and we would probably only need template an interface protection (because people make mistakes) [21:44:19] I'm going to drop a link to https://nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/cyber-choices for the record [21:44:58] [1/2] Oh yea, reminds me of this. [21:44:59] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1209254320982458398/kids-using-kali-linux-are-the-next-generation-hackers-uk-police-warn-529211-2.jpg?ex=65e640d8&is=65d3cbd8&hm=159a7a374683093d3a103ce0c5f4a061e1bc5ab9d464db19763a90a4324ce5c3& [21:46:01] IIRC, BKA (German version of the FBI/NCA) has made a really funny one, let me look for it. [21:47:21] Oh ye that was a shit poster from West Midlands ROCU but your comment would be lovely to read to you on the stand in a court [21:47:44] Because if you did that, I'd have a very easy time making a case under CMA to DC Murphy [21:48:01] Your discord comment would very easily prove intent [21:49:57] Lovely, let's label miraheze as a hacking group and send them all to the clink because they are oh-so-evil people trying to make reception wikis. [21:51:17] I hope we can still get our diffs through the post and submit edits back. Question is how would we make the [[wikitext]] clickable on paper. Hmmmm. [21:51:17] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/wikitext [21:51:18]

[21:54:21] Fun fact: Cyberchef is a GHCQ-made tool and Ghidra came out of the NSA. I wonder why do the alphabet boys make the coolest toys? (rhyme intended) [21:54:52] if I saw a kid with these things I'd admire their learning initiative and try to guide them to white-hat usage if necessary [21:57:50] Here you generally get let off on your first offence with a stern warning and a recommendation to get a job in infosec but I live in a country where things work different. [21:58:08] https://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/is-your-son-a-computer-hacker Here's a classic too. [21:58:36] what country? I might be silly and it's right there [21:59:28] Confoederatio helvetica, or as you know it, Switzerland [21:59:36] oh I see, yeah, I'd have no clue [22:00:26] That's theoretically what the cyber choices scheme is [22:01:01] if I see any kid with linux, even just a straight -buntu I'd be hopeful [22:01:13] Here the laws are interesting. You cannot be deported without your permission so as long as you don't commit cybercrime in Switzerland you are OK. Just like Russia, where the government does not care until you mess with with Russia or Russia's SOI (Subjects of Interest) [22:03:16] Even in the states, unless you have terrible OPSEC they would not really bother until you mess with the government or anything DC related. Otherwise the DOJ patiently waits until they have a strong case on you, their conviction rates are impressive. Morale of the story = do not shit where you eat. [22:15:13] [1/2] Here's something I cobbled together (shitpost responsibly) [22:15:13] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1209261938048114768/miraheze.gif?ex=65e647f1&is=65d3d2f1&hm=059eee3cc96cabe6a180ccefddaa9f0b7b22fac747784559b6d02d2825aaf01e& [22:16:56] :salute: [22:17:28] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Wikipedia_ads miraheze version time [22:22:04] [1/3] Looks like a hacking forum or a minecarft serverlist to me. [22:22:04] [2/3] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1209263658727645184/e2c8702ece16b05b.png?ex=65e6498b&is=65d3d48b&hm=08931171c96cb97e3173d2aea5ff5a704d75f500a42e6ec75a5b8143e530dd8a& [22:22:04] [3/3] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1209263659071574046/baccade0c230425a.png?ex=65e6498b&is=65d3d48b&hm=f7ac781417ae7802d691b66bd3dda6c87168f944128ac86ec03335dcd0a24dd1& [22:27:52] yup [22:36:20] literally how they'd look if wikipedia made a minecraft server list [22:36:35] guys miracraft when [22:36:38] mineheze? [22:36:41] I made the wiki for it once [22:36:47] WikiCraft [22:36:51] never did get around to launch [22:42:09]