[00:16:32] didn't think of much beyond a meta-spawn and miraheze references [00:17:06] Hexagonal spawn building, reverting your bad construction decisions [00:19:11] and use medik [00:53:30] <.labster, replying to tali64> https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/User:Owen [00:54:00] <.labster> That was faster than I expected TBH, I thought we might have a week [00:55:32] The decision to unban wasn't what caused that decision from me [00:55:44] I was fine with the unban [00:57:11] a criminal offence to perform a check without reasonable suspicion? i doubt it [00:57:18] agains tthe privacy policy? yes, but its not a criminal offence. [00:57:38] oh thats a necropost [00:59:50] It actually is under the right circumstances - either S1 of CMA 1990 or S170 of DPA 2018 [01:03:22] can you point to the exact line where it says its a crime? [01:03:22] <.labster> We basically said that we wouldn't permit him back without a training program, and you rejected it because everyone would have the same training program and it wasn't enough sanctions on Raidarr. [01:04:39] if a training program was expected that should have been 'in the deal' to begin with for all stewards at the start, rather than an arrangement where folks were at least in my time tossed in with bugger all backup [01:05:12] really not opposed to the idea but such things should be clear and collaborative from the start [01:05:12] I'm not going to debate this publicly out of a matter of courtesy - but at no point was there any assurance given to me of that type. I was told the opposite - I was told no training was necessary for which I didn't agree with [01:05:44] <.labster> You made accusations on your user page that we do not protect privacy, so this is now public. Congrats, you brought this out. [01:06:01] that phrasing does invite public laundry, yes [01:06:16] And you don't. At least, I was told that when I was resigned from the Board. [01:06:27] Because that was the reason I resigned. [01:07:21] If the board has now changed it's approach, that's great. I just wish it didn't take me resigning to happen [01:07:48] <.labster> Okay, I will also not debate as a matter of courtesy, other than to say that the Board of Directors has the expectations for even stronger standards of data privacy in the future, and hopes to continue to have the community as a vital partner, despite what you may have heard elsewhere. [01:08:33] And if that has changed as a result of my resignation - great. But that was not the case when I did resign. [01:08:45] <.labster> Nothing changed, the same thing will happen. [01:10:49] <.labster> Likely the main effect of your resignation will be that TSPortal is unmaintained. We were going to move forward on developing more training anyway, but we can't require it before we have it. [01:11:50] email works as it always did [01:13:15] TSPortal being dropped is fine - it's not built for WikiTides workflows so is not really a loss for me. It met the purpose for which I built it [01:27:26] This does not appear to be a win-win to me. I don't think efforts at blamecasting benefits the platform. [01:28:06] i'm sad to see Owen leave, but that's their decision and we should just move on from there. [01:29:29] <.labster> No, it's definitely a loss [01:36:35] [1/2] Perhaps not the best place to discuss this, as it is public, anyone can read this, also for us that don't need to know that there are disagreements. [01:36:35] [2/2] But anyone stepping down, is a loss as it means all the others need to take up extra work. [01:37:37] Disagreements should be public, imo, it keeps the trust in the community and this was fine. [01:37:54] miraheze is a transparent company, there is no reason it shouldn't be public. [01:38:08] but this is just rehashing 6 month old stuff so probably best to leave it. [01:38:18] Better to be left, yes. [02:02:20] [1/2] To help drop the subject, here's what an artificial heart looks like. [02:02:20] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1209319092163715072/f8554d79d6f35cfad51b670f194544c868aa234e.jpg?ex=65e67d2b&is=65d4082b&hm=52d73ae9c45432079613a3d487f83c5cee3b2431f7d1bb12acebba7eac9561fa& [02:02:23] Pretty neat [02:03:58] the future is now [02:04:35] Apparently it doesn't pump with the rhythm of a regular heart, it just kinda flows like how an aquarium pump filters water. In saying that, imagine how confused an unknowing doctor would be if they hooked up an EKG on someone alive and conscious and found no pulse cause they had this heart. :') [02:35:09] I agree lack of transparency is what caused issues in the past, and its unfair to people to only give one side of things publicly and then try to shut down any further public discussion about it. I’ve said for 6 years we need way more transparency a organization especially a non-profit that has something to hide is one that shouldnt be trusted. [02:38:25] I somewhat agree. I think disagreements should ideally be handled in private but the result should be discussed on wiki for transparency's sake. [02:38:31] What’s been said is probably enough but yeah, agree with Zppix that these conversations are fine to be had publicly. [02:38:45] [1/2] There's a balance here though. There's transparency and then there's releasing public multi-page documents any time someone is removed. [02:38:45] [2/2] (Not saying that's happening here, but thinking of horrors I've seen elsewhere) [02:39:36] We should strive for the most professional way of disclosure so as to not foment the typical wiki-fashioned "ooo, drama! they're going to collapse!" chatter which I know is popular [02:39:40] Don't need things turning into a dogpile over a disagreement, is my point I suppose [02:39:45] There is, and i don’t think any Wiki-related organization has found it yet [02:40:30] Ideally, the more information you give without getting opinions involved the better [02:40:53] Once opinions are involved thats when you know you’ve said too much [02:40:58] Transparency is about facts [02:42:10] Take a press release, remove the marketing and opinionated fluff [02:42:37] You may only have 10 sentences, but you have gotten the point across (sometimes) [02:43:13] Thats transparency. [02:44:51] You get rid of something or someone, you stick to reasonable facts. You don’t go out and say he got removed because he committed such and such violations of laws, you would say he has been removed because of actions that aren’t condoned and against the practices (or similar) of the organization [02:45:37] You avoid the initial shock factor, and answer most initial questions [02:46:17] Youre too the point but you keep it factor and you wanna try to leave as little to speculation as possible [02:46:25] Which isnt always possible [02:52:56] <.labster> I suppose we could make a press-release type thing. [02:53:23] <.labster> Probably not for the actual press... though on the other hand if they picked it up Miraheze would be notable for Wikipedia. [02:58:40] <.labster> [1/3] I do want make it clear that Owen has decided to go due to a disagreement with the rest of the board. No one asked him to leave, and it was entirely his own decision. And we value his years of service, keeping things running under Miraheze Limited and ensuring that we have wikis to work on today. We thank him for all that he's done, and wish Owen the best. [02:58:40] <.labster> [2/3] Simultaneously, I want to say that security and privacy remains a core commitment of Miraheze/WikiTide Foundation, and that we already have much higher standards than most websites, which sell your data to the highest bidder. And that we are working to strengthen our policies and practices, on security and all other practices as the new organization finishes the transition from Mir [02:58:41] <.labster> [3/3] aheze Limited to the WikiTide Foundation. [03:00:39] <.labster> Anyway, somebody should write something like that. [03:03:22] I suppose if we want to bureaucratic-ate it a bit, Miraheze could appoint a CCO [03:03:22] semi-officially [03:03:22] They’d be responsible for all official comms in relation to the Board, policies, T&S queries, etc. [03:03:46] Basically the point of communication for anything official (who can then of course pass on to anyone for more info if needed) [03:03:51] That’s only if Miraheze wants to formalize it [03:04:21] No actually press releases are not [[e:WP:RS]] [03:04:21] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/e:WP:RS [03:04:21]

[03:04:38] Ahem bot [03:05:18] [[WP:RS]] [03:05:18] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/WP:RS [03:05:20]

[03:09:40] Does MH want to formalize it @agentisai or @.labster [03:10:53] <.labster> We have a draft communications policy which would make everything go through Agent or his appointee [03:11:40] Oh? [03:15:46] That you in the picture? [03:18:39] I wish, who cares about the back pain, I'd be rich af [03:19:03] I was about to compliment the haircut. [03:19:16] It's probably the only haircut a doctor is allowed to have. lol [03:27:02] Oh! I actually had a big debate about this back when I was a biology major [03:27:17] “A life major” [03:27:32] So does that mean “a death minor” [03:27:48] Not the haircuts, but whether the pulse action of a heart is required for venous health [03:27:56] Yes it would [03:28:24] Vs continuous pressure of an artificial heart [03:28:29] Cause the respiratory system would need it otherwise your lungs would give out, wouldn’t it? [03:28:33] I'm interesting! If you're up to gush about it [03:30:55] On 4% battery, but will try to fit it in [03:31:20] XD Aight [03:32:16] Short version: beyond just add'l stresses of an alternating pressure/flow, the turbulence of reversing pressure gradients probably offers extra benefits [03:33:36] E.g. miniscule pumps not getting clogged in adverse topography situations and such. [03:33:47] The human body is stupid complicated [03:36:52] Which is a big reason I gave up the idea of doing a medical track before I even officially started [03:37:50] what about Paladox? [03:39:40] I won't presume to speak for them, but I would note that they've done a hell of a lot more than any volunteer should be tasked with in keeping MH running over the years, esp. in lean times. [03:40:14] So a break or a move on to other projects is both understandable and well-deserved [03:40:40] not even a goodbye :xsob: [03:40:48] wishing him best ofc [04:06:44] <.labster> I talked to Paladox, who is burnt out and has wanted to resign for months. I think this is a good time for that to happen. Also, paladox is deep into politics and it's an election year, so efforts may be better spent there. [04:09:59] Deserves endless thanks for keeping Miraheze operational with all the server challenges [04:12:20] Wishing them success, I know UK politics is messy right now, to put it mildly. [04:13:28] Also for some reason all medical profesionalls have terrible handwriting. [04:13:46] In my case only I can read my handwriting unless I write in caps. [04:17:28] If Labour win Parliament next year, we can probably thank Paladox for that \:P [04:19:11] <.labster> [1/2] And if they lose, well: [04:19:11] <.labster> [2/2] https://i.redd.it/g8tbwk2auum91.jpg [04:24:54] Unification... with Great Britain, right? [04:26:21] I texted this message with Chrome Remote Desktop [04:27:30] Emicraft, for future reference, please make threads in #support [04:27:49] ok [04:30:26] [1/2] Now that is advertising I want in permanently in my wiki skin. [04:30:26] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1209356363642310698/miraheze2.gif?ex=65e69fe1&is=65d42ae1&hm=58c6c625e4686f5a95530b480a7bb021d1b4fc96e4d23e2ad6a4fb2f899037c4& [04:31:41] I will play around with Natron and make a few more banners so we can get Miraheze ads template going for the lolz. [04:52:33] No ads smh [04:52:56] Ads are punishable by a forced donation of $250 to Miraheze [06:18:52] [1/2] Owen is right. Section 170 DPA 2018 is unlawful obtaining of personal info which is https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/12/section/170/enacted. I'm too lazy to get up CMA but I can't see why it couldn't be argued. No one would prosecute for a single check because that simply wouldn't be in the public interest. With enough misconduct, you could re [06:18:52] [2/2] asonably prosecute under either. [11:50:20] isn’t Miraheze now in the US? UK Laws don’t apply anymore, right? [11:52:11] It is in the US but the GDPR applies where the data of EU/UK citizens is processed [11:53:28] GDPR/DPA would still apply in some cases [11:53:33] true… how would miraheze know if I’m a EU citizen or not? [11:53:45] that's the neat part, they don't [11:53:45] it is up to you to state that [11:53:56] websites assume everyone is from the EU just in case [11:54:10] good [11:54:18] but we basically are nice and assume everyone is subject to the strictest rules [11:54:37] but if you are from the EU, you can complain to the relevant supervisory authority [11:55:15] which for data where MHL was original controller is either your country's or the ICO in the UK [11:57:02] Ok thanks [11:57:13] what can you complain for? [11:57:59] any failure to comply with the rights you have under GDPR or breach of the org's obligations to you [11:58:04] which I doubt we have done [11:58:24] but if you felt that way, you'd have the option [13:01:24] Maybe less arson? [13:10:38] Correction. Provided you don't use a VPN, websites detect this via your IP address. Hence why we Europeans often can't read articles from certain news outlets in the US for example, as they block European IP's. [13:11:18] (Geoblock) [13:11:51] How rude [13:12:15] And I thought legroom had it hard in Russia [13:12:46] that' the most unreliable thing in the world though [13:13:07] my IPv4's WHOIS is completely unreliable, and probably made up by my ISP [13:13:41] Agreed, but still it's the easiest way websites can comply with GPDR, if they don't want to have the hussle of complying with the GPDR [13:14:17] as long as it ticks the legal checkboxes amirite?? [13:14:29] Indeed [13:14:58] Correction; as long as it doesn’t meet the requirements to have to tick the legal checkmark [13:21:56] I confirm some US store sites and news outlets and whatever just block Russian IPs, actually been a thing even before 2022 [13:22:30] Not surprised [13:22:36] Sounds like something we’d do [13:25:15] Fun fact: If you use YouTube with Russian IP, you will never get ads [13:26:20] yup, because of 2022 sanctions [13:26:39] but you also get a lot of regional copyright blocks [13:26:48] iirc some us sites simply don't want to play with euro privacy laws and want to harvest you in peace, hence, block [13:26:57] I can't see some music videos even w/ VPN lol [13:26:58] the Invidious experience in a nutshell as well [13:29:44] blessed be the admins of US and EU Invidious servers [13:30:36] Russia is also the only country in the world to ban religious websites [13:30:47] afaik [13:31:28] Religion is having a hard time there anyway [13:31:59] u sure about that [13:32:06] pretty sure [13:32:19] idk about such cases but won't be surprised, the witnesses are getting jailed here hard, including at least one wheelchaired person [13:32:32] although religion often is banned in countries, websites are not put on block lists [13:32:57] Just read Forum18.org [13:32:58] “Harvest you in peace” [13:33:09] https://tenor.com/view/horror-smiley-face-nightmare-emoji-reaction-gif-27215281 [13:33:47] it's exactly what it sounds like I assure you [13:34:02] www.jw.org is only blocked in Russia, not even North Korea or China block the website, and neither does puppet Belarus [13:34:07] As an American get me out of here I know [13:34:14] 2018 marked a new spike in my paranoia as two innocent girls got arrested for "offending religious people" over ancient meme pics in VK (Russian Facebook) [13:34:22] NK??? [13:34:24] @rodejong https://explorer.ooni.org/search?since=2024-02-19&until=2024-02-20&test_name=web_connectivity&category_code=REL&failure=true&only=confirmed confirmed censorship of religious sites [13:34:26] I haven't heard of any other countries blocking religious websites [13:34:32] Oh no [13:34:32] lotta countries in that list [13:34:48] americans have a long way to go in their digital combat [13:35:04] but yeah, getting arrested over some memes reminds me why the us at the end of the day ain't all that bad [13:35:45] [1/2] amd that's why I stopped posting publicly over there, including my arts [13:35:46] [2/2] and in 2022 I finally deleted my account [13:37:27] A lot has happened since 2017 then 😮 [13:37:29] new trend here is, of course, "international extremist LGBT movement" [13:37:52] be gay, do crime [13:37:54] [1/2] so yeah [13:37:54] [2/2] get me out of here plz lol [13:37:56] We seem abysmal until you take a step back [13:38:06] The Extremism law is so vague that anyone can be arrested for litterally anything [13:38:12] exactly [13:38:15] Do I have too? :( [13:38:16] that's the point [13:38:21] I wanna commit crime without being gay [13:38:56] He learned the truth [13:38:58] Kill zem [13:39:01] If I share a blible text with my neighbour, I can get arrested. If you protest with an empty picket board, you can get arrested. It's crazy [13:39:55] Ya know Mercian isn’t that bad [13:41:17] exactly [13:41:38] even the uk is rather 1984 in comparison from all I've seen of it [13:42:17] Might aswell just blow the uk off the map if I'm honest [13:42:19] not in every respect but enough to be weary [13:42:20] There's no fixing us [13:42:24] [1/3] I knew already in 2016 when the Witnesses were threatened already. [13:42:24] [2/3] A friend from Denmark had served 6 years in prison/labour camp, for just being an elder and the one who opened and closed the door of their place of worship. [13:42:24] [3/3] He told his story last year in one of our meetings. High profile case as he was the first arrested in 2017 [13:42:40] can't blow out the uk, it's a legacy support system for governments around the world [13:42:47] America has a good protection of Religious rights [13:49:05] I already said in another server in similar convo, but I wish I was born in UK, would make my main hyperfixation much easier and won't keep me in big ol' closet w/ constant anxiety at least lol [13:50:12] I don't blame the many Russians fleeing Russia [13:50:41]