[00:07:49] [1/3] Feedback on these pages pleaseeee (Content, formatting, & text suggestions) [00:07:50] [2/3] https://oblasia.miraheze.org/wiki/J%C5%8Dky%C5%8D-Oiwai_naming_conflict [00:07:50] [3/3] https://oblasia.miraheze.org/wiki/Time_zones [00:10:20] Good start so far; the only suggestions I have is to avoid blank sections and to remove the "Time zones" header in the related page as it's unnecessary [00:23:02] 👍 [04:36:14] I think I might write the Chinese (or Leinati, in the case of your world) “城京-追井命名衝突” without the hyphen [04:40:25] I also find the third paragraph a bit confusing. What are people trying to change the name to? Chengjing to Jokyo or vice versa? [04:41:05] By the way, in the infobox, you call Oiwai/Aojing as Zhuijing. [04:48:50] Anyway, I think this is really cool! [04:52:21] [1/3] I know you only asked for feedback on those two pages, but I hope you don’t mind [04:52:21] [2/3] https://oblasia.miraheze.org/wiki/Leinati_language [04:52:21] [3/3] The romanisation has a typo in the infobox [10:24:50] [1/3] 4 clicks on 7th, google decided to nerfs us hard 🥲 [10:24:51] [2/3] no links appear even on "see omitted results" [10:24:51] [3/3] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1215968534602190948/IMG_20240309_095840.jpg?ex=65feadf2&is=65ec38f2&hm=44335fc992993bdcc640fc9b015794563947dd2eca71bdf8b06a4d14809aada5& [10:34:32] Yeah google is not being nice recently [10:55:46] I have a silly idea [11:04:00] Silly ideas are the most fun ones [11:04:03] 😄 [11:10:23] I got distracted lol [11:11:40] can we make an open letter, or start a petition, to call out google's preference on fandom because of ads + its heavy catering to algorithms above actual quality of content and user friendliness? [11:12:00] my wiki's case rn is especially ridiculous lol [11:13:47] You can write an open letter [11:13:50] No one will listen [11:19:37] [1/4] there was an official wiki on Gamepedia, started in co-op w/ dev studio, they switched publishers twice and the wiki got abandoned and horribly outdated before the game actually came out [11:19:38] [2/4] then there is wikia version, which I've adopted and was curating for like a year, because the game came out in July 2017, the dev studio got disbanded in November, and in July 2018 it got shutdown (fun) [11:19:38] [3/4] then Fandom buys Gamepedia, locks down the OG wiki while plastering "OFFICIAL WIKI" on their version - which I stopped maintaining by that time, and nearly half of pages and got broken w/ unified platform circus [11:19:38] [4/4] and you get 2 fandom owned wikis, one locked and another broken, and both claim to be official w/ zero endorsement from new publisher/IP owner who revive the game now [11:21:58] That's potentially an issue the publisher could resolve [11:23:21] Publisher asking for removal is the fastest and highest chance [11:23:36] [1/3] I relentlessly push migrated wiki trough community but it's hard, people still click on whatever is easier to find [11:23:36] [2/3] and yeah, I was hoping to contact the publisher but the only venue is semi-official discord, and in a form of suggestion thread [11:23:36] [3/3] when I tried to explain the issue to server mod, who does have contact to publisher, he simply dismissed me [11:24:06] Does publisher have email or some sort of direct contact? [11:24:24] like, this is not a big issue, we have link to new wiki in resources channel, doesn't worth the fuss [11:24:46] I was told to use the contact form on site which is broken [11:24:56] 💀 [11:25:00] Whoever owns the actual rights to the game needs to obtain legal advice [11:25:15] Because only the judgement of a court is going to be something fandom listen too [11:25:56] and it doesn't even have a misc variant, only game related like a bug, a issue w/ client, harassment, etc [11:26:27] oof, sadly you have to work on the wiki harder to compete against that [11:28:00] google is visibly pushing us out despite the console showing me 59 indexed pages [11:28:10] the dip is depressing [11:28:35] 59 indexed pages doesn't sound a lot [11:28:45] I suppose if enough people fuss a letter could add on [11:29:13] Nothing on its own but that thinking at scale is exactly why [11:29:22] ^ [11:29:45] Also works if everyone in that Discord server make a fuss [11:32:02] I will try to make a bigger thread by myself now, because I brought it the first time in another user's thread asking if they want to make official wiki [11:32:21] and general channels, whoch aren't monitored by big people ofc [11:32:39] I lowkey comme off annoying lol [11:32:52] but some other people finally started contributing [11:36:57] I mean, can NIWA and the likes, Miraheze, wiki.gg, the new indie wiki fed co-op on something? [11:37:23] honorary mention for AWA lol [11:38:28] even mammoths like Bulbapedia and Terraria Wiki still struggle against Fandom [11:39:36] ain't talking even talking about freshest big migrations - MCW, Tardis, WoW [11:44:40] Trust me, Fandoom will be gone when wiki.gg is big enough [11:45:08] funny you say that [11:45:21] I also got some salt on my wound recently [11:47:27] Also Google Search results are a part of enshittification [11:47:33] [1/6] some dude started contributing on mira wiki, then nearly called me a dictator [11:47:33] [2/6] after listening my to my reasoning, he continued to edit [11:47:34] [3/6] but then goes "you know I actually want to make my own thing so I won't edit on your place anymore" [11:47:34] [4/6] and I was like "ok, but where?" [11:47:34] [5/6] "wiki.gg" [11:47:34] [6/6] 🥲 [11:47:35] right now [11:47:56] oof [11:48:32] what's the problem with wiki.gg btw? [11:48:51] better seo than mita [11:49:03] ahh, I get it now then [11:49:08] currently the biggest competitor to fandom [11:51:04] [1/2] like, I have no problem w/ wiki.gg itself [11:51:04] [2/2] it's just certainly will worsen condition my migrated and reworked version is going through [11:51:50] and splitting the resources of battling against fandom versions [11:55:27] Really? Oh I move there then too.. Bye bye! [11:56:30] (just kidding by the way) [11:57:08] If I was you, I will try to compete against the new wiki for a while then decide to migrate [11:57:45] I migrated back in October 🥲 [11:57:51] oh [11:58:05] when new owner started the weird closed "event" [11:58:27] it was the first sign of revival, but wasn't confirmed until February [12:12:33] [1/2] yeah but when it was 39 pages there were no issues lol [12:12:33] [2/2] some pages showed up on 4tg place [12:21:43] thanks for listening my vent btw lol [12:44:56] hi [12:59:18] Does it? [12:59:28] I feel like they're just more proactive [12:59:45] like they'll list the sitemap for a wiki early on to promote it on Google [13:00:04] and some tips given in onboarding are generic like "rewrite pages so that your wiki isn't penalized" [13:32:43] they have ads and google analytics, it certainly helps [13:33:38] turns out google likes it when you show ads from their ad platform 😉 [13:33:53] I don't understand what happened w/ my wiki despite some pages getting massive rewriting, some getting renamed + re organised categories and overhauled templates [13:35:22] [1/2] like again, I migrated in October, I finished rework in late November and submitted sitemaps + requested separate page indexing [13:35:22] [2/2] character specific pages showed up fine until luke 3 days ago [13:35:46] afaik, wiki.gg doesn't use Google AdSense [13:35:59] they have their own in-house platform [13:36:14] we got massive spike on 20th w/ revival announcement and since then back to the ground in both shows and clicks [13:38:08] I don't see any ads platform on their wikis [13:38:16] but maybe that's because of NoScript on my end [13:42:20] Likely [13:42:58] Also fun fact: DID YOU KNOW FANDOM DONT CONSIDER THOSE ROLLING VIDEOS AS ADS FOR THE DONT SHOW ALL ADS SWITCH [13:45:10] that thing that takes more than one third of the screen when I browse any Fandom wiki on mobile? [13:45:29] what even are those videos then??? (I never watched one) [13:52:01] Idfk [14:09:29] One of my worst nightmares is stewardship on a wiki farm of any size. I been a sysop on a few independently run wikis, not wanting to do that any time soon, but stewardship is a whole new level of nightmare. [14:22:47] Thing is, when you're involved in wiki's that are in the scope of your interest, it is much harder, then when you have to deal with things you're otherwise are not involved in. [14:23:21] How so? [14:23:23] Oh yes, POV is a very dangerous and easy trap to fall into. [14:23:37] Ah [14:25:50] I think the issue is that Wiki.gg is a lot more focused. Miraheze tends to accept, well...anything with a good request. [14:26:17] I would say the percentage of Miraheze wikis that actually focus on anything of substance is probably below 10% [14:26:31] I have seen a very intense fight on IRC about camera lenses on a Russian-speaking wiki [14:27:24] fair [14:27:37] the most active wikis on our platforms are wikis that have migrated [14:28:17] a pretty big cut of the rest are private too [14:28:54] the ones I've seen public are a one-man show too, though they're pretty cool wikis like Pisces' [14:29:11] I am kinda glad wikis are moving away from FANDOM, sadly old one still compeats [14:29:18] I dont generally see why people don't want to use MH for serious wikis, though. Its evidently a better service than both Fandom and wikigg [14:29:35] bad rep from the reception wiki days maybe [14:29:40] Maybe [14:29:49] Hey, My wiki is serious mate 😄 [14:29:51] The database issue probably compounded the issue [14:29:59] I wanted full control, more then what Miraheze offers, so I self host [14:30:37] for curiosity, what did you gain from self-hosting that we don't offer in MH? [14:30:51] did you want CheckUser access, oversight, or maint scripts? [14:31:01] I think its oversight access [14:31:03] Maint scipts (delete old revs) [14:31:10] Oh [14:31:37] The only thing I would want to oversight would IP adresses on request or simplar personal info [14:32:14] makes sense [14:32:29] you mean real deletion I guess [14:32:40] I do encourage account making as to mask IPs. [14:32:41] not just the hiding revisions you can do on-wiki [14:32:45] Yes. [14:33:16] I do encourage account making as to mask IPs. As people get a bit iffy about their IPs sometimes. [14:33:41] We're working to move away from our bad reputation [14:33:49] the database issue was also something [14:35:10] Server stability has been fixed which is great, that's a good step forward [14:35:20] but the brand needs some serious aid [14:35:30] oh man [14:35:53] Which is why I am not sure if allowing reception wikis back is the greatest idea [14:36:19] There seems to be little benifit [14:36:21] [1/2] maybe the whole "don't use fandom" trend needs to grow [14:36:22] [2/2] just mammoths migrating away isn't enough [14:36:36] Any ideas [14:36:55] Oh no yeah most people so far seem to be firmly in “AH HELL NAH” [14:37:09] [1/2] oh, absolutely against reception wikis being acceptable again [14:37:09] [2/2] I still see people associate Miraheze only w/ them and go over those remaining ones [14:37:12] Indeed, we'll be regressing [14:37:13] To put it bluntly, yes 😆 [14:37:23] maybe a rebrand might be good [14:37:34] like what 😶 [14:37:35] to a name that's actually pronounceable [14:37:43] Yeah, lets change our name to WikiTide 🙃 [14:37:45] I wonder how many people have messed up typing miraheze.org [14:37:54] true [14:37:56] u pushing wiki tide again huuuh [14:37:57] I've seen people call us Mirehaze [14:38:16] Eh [14:38:29] Lots of people here prob got some pride in the name Miraheze [14:38:53] Still [14:38:54] Lots of baggage attached to it unfortunately [14:38:58] It definitely has connotations in people's heads [14:38:58] Yup [14:39:01] But not all good [14:39:36] [1/3] wikis w/ custom domains won't care ofc [14:39:36] [2/3] subdomain ones might, but redirect can kinda solve it [14:39:37] [3/3] but idk how people will look at the fact that Miraheze is no more in the end [14:39:37] Really think a rebrand would work? [14:39:50] Yeah [14:39:56] it kinda like another sign of instability [14:40:01] Reception wikis, feet wikis, slow servers, database outages, almost shutting down [14:40:03] Kinda feels like throwing in the towel [14:40:27] https://tenor.com/view/you-read-my-mind-frank-sheldon-christopher-walken-the-outlaws-you-already-know-gif-25276014 [14:40:30] If a rebrand were to happen, I don't think we'd force people to use a new domain [14:40:35] well tbf Miraheze remains obscure af [14:40:53] despite bad rep in heads of those who know about it [14:41:08] MH is pretty well known in wiki spheres [14:41:09] Eh, I think if we did rebrand and left old wikis with the old domains it would just be confusing [14:41:16] :ThinkerMH: [14:41:18] especially after the shutdown incident [14:41:31] I’d still want the name Miraheze to be kept in a way, ie we can say the new name and people obviously know it, but if we say Miraheze, it won’t be werid [14:41:34] hey, mossbag gave mira some good rep [14:41:37] "incident" [14:41:45] everybody say thank you pizza tower wiki [14:41:45] less work changing obscure references to the name [14:41:48] accident? [14:42:21] https://tenor.com/view/the-thank-you-both-so-gif-22076877 [14:42:31] event [14:42:49] occurrence [14:42:52] No, not that. I was just commenting on how eloquently you put something that almost ended mira 😆 [14:43:24] Disaster [14:43:32] Embarassment [14:43:38] thee end [14:43:45] aight [14:43:48] I'd qualify it as that, yes [14:43:49] A reputation takes a long time to build up, but is lost very quickly. Let's build it, and not go back to old ways [14:44:09] Sounds like something to be added to a mira meeting agenda [14:44:25] Any ideas [14:44:51]