[00:16:27] Hey, I think I got lucky and used the latest dump. I say that as "Verny Barren Desert" is in the newer dump but not the older one [02:30:24] [1/2] hm [02:30:25] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216211528009650286/hJDS5wv.png?ex=65ff9040&is=65ed1b40&hm=ffc80da24b6fb42104dd755b91c71e995a63e916a3680810c545c172646ba64d& [02:34:57] what about it [02:35:19] nothin i just havent been on the base main page before [02:35:30] also these banner ads still show on main pages cry [03:30:29] one who moved #tech to support that goofy [03:31:08] also first time i reached out to my fandom wiki rep and super nice person so W [09:16:27] Is he focused on his own future though? [10:46:28] <.labster, replying to luna.nightfern> not really; he and Trump don't have all that much future remaining. I am looking forward to having non-boomers run our country eventually. [10:56:06] Yeah they show on the main page of a wiki even if logged in too boooo [11:11:13] Icky, glad I use an adblocker [11:13:58] What's his future? He's nearly 90 [11:32:16] fandom try not to post ads (impossible= [12:15:12] Real.. [12:15:53] I use an ad blocker so I see no ads on FANDOM [12:21:30] [1/11] There is no future in politics. It's always a downwards spiral. [12:21:31] [2/11] We have a Dutch song that put's it perfectly: [12:21:31] [3/11] ```Hoera, de revlutie, T'is eindelijk zover [12:21:31] [4/11] Maar de nieuwe leiders blijken net zo autoritair.``` [12:21:32] [5/11] Translates as: [12:21:32] [6/11] ```Hurray, the revolution, It's finally there, [12:21:32] [7/11] But the new leaders appear to be just as authoritair(ian)``` [12:21:33] [8/11] People keep hoping that the new government will end the current problems. [12:21:33] [9/11] But in stead they either make them worse, or replace them with new ones. [12:21:33] [10/11] And adding to this, you can't make everyone happy, especially not when it's the opposite side that is in power. [12:21:34] [11/11] I personally stay neutral in politics, and don't involve myself in it. [12:24:30] You know what Miraheze can do? We can give wikis options to include a section in their skin that promotes other wikis, and only wikis that have that enabled go in that pool (no, bad idea) [12:40:02] Maybe wikis could have nav boxes like that, linking to other simlar wikis like those on FANDOM [12:41:18] [1/2] I think it is a bad Idea. [12:41:19] [2/2] You could be creating a trend where wiki's create the opposite, and list all the "bad" wiki's which would attract vandalism to those wiki's [12:41:35] Strange. [12:42:19] [1/2] Not strange at all. There are two kinds of people. Positive and negative. [12:42:20] [2/2] Positives want to build up. Negatives like to tore down. [12:42:30] IDK how it works on FANDOM [12:43:08] Because I think it is done centralised, and is heavily moderated? [12:43:32] We don't have the manpower to oversee such idea [12:43:38] Hm. Maybe. [12:43:57] Would WikiDiscover ever be updated? [12:45:02] Don't know [12:45:46] I mean, having a neat way to find other wikis would be nice [12:46:08] I agree [12:46:34] [1/2] that's something fandom is always hated for so nope [12:46:34] [2/2] each wiki is free to have some kind of affiliations though [12:46:53] some ideas were flying around [12:47:15] It is a bad idea, but I am just putting it out there, especially if you use the Cosmos theme to add to the "Authentic Experience" [12:49:46] Might be better to have a list per skin, which wiki's use that skin [12:50:29] So as to see what is possible in a skin. [12:50:39] How it would look [12:51:41] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Skin:Cosmos - Literally says: based off Oasis skin. So imagine Fandom but with MH branding and no ads. [12:57:10] I find it a horrible skin [12:57:22] but that's my personal taste [12:57:40] Don't say that, our very own CosmicAlpha made it 🤫 [12:57:48] It's the third most popular skin iirc [12:57:52] after Vector and Monobook [12:58:37] I like it [12:58:48] The search bar is a bit meh though [12:58:55] that would be my only gripe [13:01:15] Athria likes Cosmos for its mobile responsiveness. This skin menaces with spikes of FANDOMness [13:01:35] LOL. For me it is too much contrast. I like a bland skin. Like Anisa where the skin doesn't dominate [13:02:52] it's by miles better what Fandom has turned Oasis into before taking it down [13:03:09] plus even Oasis itself isn't responsive [13:03:11] I tend to go for low contrast skins but still colourful [13:03:29] ngl Cosmos was initially the main factor of me joining Miraheze lol [13:03:38] but I eventually became Timeless person [13:04:17] I go for low contrest but still colorful [13:04:36] https://jwmeeting.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page?useskin=Foreground [13:05:57] [1/2] For me a skin needs to be an addition, not a distraction. [13:05:57] [2/2] Too me, Cosmos does that [13:06:35] [1/2] Ro, genuine question - why see some of my wiki's styling are here lol [13:06:35] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216371625264549969/IMG_20240310_160545.jpg?ex=6600255a&is=65edb05a&hm=b63455b534a794555ef89ec818f874beb98d11ad05eae315425eab2e768ad392& [13:07:54] also I got logged out [13:08:25] Cause you share them in the chat perhaps? [13:09:00] [1/2] I mean, yeah but [13:09:00] [2/2] the color? [13:09:08] isn't working [13:09:23] I thought something messed up on my end [13:09:44] [1/2] It's a pretty clean skin. Vector 2010 with Monobook's background sweeping lines is what I think works really well. [13:09:45] [2/2] (Imagine being the person colsing the new Vector RFC) [13:09:53] WEIRD!! [13:10:04] [1/2] It does for me [13:10:05] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216372505275666442/image.png?ex=6600262c&is=65edb12c&hm=bca31f85c9677506da90c688ebaf5ce52e63944f828440d0b7c088fc2cee5193& [13:10:22] [1/2] Uhhh [13:10:22] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216372579489677452/68fabdfb799e1deb.png?ex=6600263e&is=65edb13e&hm=4c8b67282e88d4d6aa1bd2eb6ac8e5c6122629f2ea26934664bf3b62ad2a89d6& [13:10:23] How come you see it so dark? [13:10:43] maybe you changed on user css but didn't update timeless.css? [13:10:53] [1/2] Looks good to me [13:10:54] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216372711102746634/2d202ce1a4a04e0b.png?ex=6600265d&is=65edb15d&hm=b5707e589fc327198edb3efb6f88f05d99382eebb6b4022b36df389fe75ff1da& [13:11:02] :ThinkerMH: [13:11:17] I think it is on your end 😄 [13:11:33] AH [13:11:36] I know why [13:11:55] I think I might have an idea of what happened. Let me test a theory real quick. [13:12:01] sidebars transform under 850px [13:12:11] and they have different classes/id's [13:12:20] amd I'm on mobile [13:12:28] When that’s annoying [13:12:58] [1/2] you had to update their bg color too [13:12:58] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216373232970502206/IMG_20240310_161236.jpg?ex=660026d9&is=65edb1d9&hm=249f48dcf775afedcf4a695459fe6b96a37bf49ad1784dceddd30d5ce7cb5584& [13:13:32] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216373374725656628/image.png?ex=660026fb&is=65edb1fb&hm=5c8936c8019441d7abfa2d07d47d13ee3927cf779225e61798fb67b8d1beb6b0& [13:13:32] Yeah [13:13:35] I see [13:13:37] hmmm [13:14:13] Glad that my {User} template works [13:14:35] [1/2] Hmmm [13:14:36] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216373642615853237/034e946b40d9f8d6.png?ex=6600273b&is=65edb23b&hm=9a2725104c0d1e7535b7d8993789f300886bf0c8d045e58d6a7ceadd256a0ddb& [13:14:59] Where do I update that? Mobile.css? or [13:15:09] click on sandwich, and you'll get same stuff [13:15:32] Sandwich? [13:15:39] Hamburger? [13:15:41] Timeless.css? it says I'm desktop [13:15:55] or that, idk how it's called lol [13:16:06] Can confirm - same stuff indeed [13:16:16] Three stripes for me would be okay also 😄 [13:16:23] true [13:17:55] it's either new class names or something w/ `@media` values [13:18:09] I can't remember [13:18:18] [1/31] ```/ Sidebars / [13:18:18] [2/31] /* Placing all sidebars to the left aka forcing layout under 1340px as default [13:18:18] [3/31] Taken from Inkipedia [ https://splatoonwiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Timeless.css ] */ [13:18:19] [4/31] @media (min-width: 1340px) { [13:18:19] [5/31] #mw-content-block { [13:18:19] [6/31] display: block; } [13:18:19] [7/31] #mw-content, [13:18:20] [8/31] #content-bottom-stuff { [13:18:20] [9/31] margin-left: 14em; } [13:18:20] [10/31] #mw-content-wrapper { [13:18:21] [11/31] float: right; [13:18:21] [12/31] margin-left: -14em; [13:18:22] [13/31] width: 100%; } [13:18:22] [14/31] / Width and paddings / [13:18:23] [15/31] #mw-site-navigation, #mw-related-navigation { [13:18:23] [16/31] width: 14em; } [13:18:24] [17/31] #mw-related-navigation { [13:18:24] [18/31] padding: 0 1em 0 0; } [13:18:25] [19/31] } [13:18:25] [20/31] / Other sidebar styling / [13:18:26] [21/31] #mw-site-navigation .sidebar-chunk, #mw-related-navigation .sidebar-chunk { [13:18:26] [22/31] background: lightblue; [13:18:27] [23/31] border: none; [13:18:27] [24/31] padding-bottom: 2px; } [13:18:28] [25/31] @media (min-width: 1100px) { [13:18:28] [26/31] #mw-site-navigation .sidebar-chunk, #mw-related-navigation .sidebar-chunk { [13:18:29] [27/31] font-family: 'Montserrat', sans-serif; [13:18:29] [28/31] font-size: 0.85em; [13:18:30] [29/31] color:white; [13:18:30] [30/31] padding: 1em 1.5em 0.01em; } [13:18:31] [31/31] }``` [13:19:52] [13:20:31] you know, I probably need to rewrite some code [13:20:31] From there to the bottom right? [13:21:01] I'm a copy paster, So anything going wrong, is someone elses fault 😄 [13:21:35] [1/2] till line 252 at least [13:21:35] [2/2] the rest, of you need them ofc [13:22:16] I'm trying to describe every rule [13:24:00] I have that part already in there [13:24:04] 😄 [13:24:34] https://jwmeeting.miraheze.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Timeless.css#L-127 [13:27:55] As a programmer, aaaaayyyyeee [13:33:34] LOL [13:35:04] [1/2] It's a bit to black and white put, as I do create some light stuff myself. [13:35:05] [2/2] I copy a snip it, and build upon that [14:44:16] @agentisai Why did you remove interwiki rights from sysops in https://github.com/miraheze/mw-config/commit/666f2c441eda6d1aa0c15931ec70f2da2fb84a07 ? [14:46:44] @agentisai also why not votewiki [14:46:58] A separate votewiki would be much better [14:47:59] probably a mistake, I was also nuking interwiki-admin from existence [14:48:36] not sure how to set that up but either way, I'm not super sure how another wiki could be useful [14:50:18] Got too trigger happy? [14:50:26] The WMF do it for security reasons [14:50:38] Votewiki is extremely locked down [14:50:47] It doesn't even have CentralAuth on [14:51:01] Wait what [14:51:08] So do global accounts just [14:51:09] Not [14:52:21] Yeah, I wouldn't be sure how to set that up [14:52:49] either way, Meta shouldn't be super insecure. It should also be pretty locked down as well [14:53:15] especially as the wiki where I can change rights globally [14:53:35] Also I love the fact out of pure chance we just happen to get 2 AP and one patrol request in a few days, considering I barely saw any of either in Archive 9 [14:54:13] Correct [14:54:23] Votewiki needs a local account [14:54:35] But is it like linked to global? [14:54:38] The WMF takes election security seriously [14:54:56] Yes, you can authenticate using weird shit to vote [14:55:16] But people who need to scruitineer have local accounts [14:55:27] And voting records are encrypted [14:56:04] What kinda werid shot [14:56:20] Don't ask [14:56:49] Ideally, someone not on the board or ballot should hold the private key for the election [14:57:15] The WMF even have people on the ballot suspend shell access but we don't have the people for that [14:57:24] Wow [14:57:46] Would have to be an SRE ig [14:57:53] Reception maybe? [14:59:42] I would suggest someone not on the board or ballot is appointed to hold the keys [15:01:54] Like who [15:06:49] Likely Harje or a steward [15:07:07] Harej is a board member [15:07:15] Literally a steward then [15:07:21] NA or Kiju [15:07:35] Is reception on the board? [15:07:57] We don't know until we have candidates [15:08:06] We don't know who they'll be [15:08:16] But they should be as independent as possible [15:09:17] Ideally not an SRE too [15:10:55] Why [15:11:24] What are you talking about? [15:11:35] Because if you have the key and access to the votes, you can manipulate them [15:12:29] I'd suggest someone like me or @bluemoon0332 if they could cope without test access for the election period [15:13:09] Oh right, I forgot test is still party connect to production [15:14:44] You need someone whose technical & has an NDA but no access to manipulate anything [15:15:01] Or we appoint a law firm or something to be a keyholder [15:15:15] Sounds expensive [15:15:39] Don’t worry I’ll do it save us cash 😆 [15:15:52] I am very trustworthy yes yes [15:15:56] https://tenor.com/view/nod-cat-hyper-gif-9540792418684483949 [15:16:35] Not that much, it's not much work [15:16:58] All the scruitineers need to be fully independent [15:17:11] I'm not sure why we picked secure poll with such a small group tbh [15:17:27] Because with a small group, there's not many people to scruitineer [15:17:48] You need 2 people who are technical enough to use GPG but not SRE or board [15:22:32] Agreed. [15:22:51] The supporters must have never used secure poll before [15:23:08] https://tenor.com/view/i-didnt-want-to-nini-high-school-musical-the-musical-i-was-against-it-i-opposed-it-gif-22948622 [15:35:36] Under the new RfC just passed, Stewards not running will oversee (Kiju, Void), along with the DT&S (Harej) [15:35:45] + whoever else Stewards asks to assist [15:35:56] So Kiju and Harej [15:36:49] and Void [15:37:17] So Kiju and Harej [15:37:22] ??? [15:37:40] (Cause void busy irl) [15:38:38] I assume Void would still help facilitate a Board election, but regardless of his availability, he'd have a seat on the committee [15:39:00] But yes you may be right [15:47:01] Was it you asking about role color switches, by the way? [15:47:10] Could've sworn there was someone but I don't remember who [15:48:44] Xena? [15:48:58] I was the one asking bout role icon switches [15:49:07] Ohhhh yeah [15:49:15] DM me them and I'll see how many I can apply [15:51:17] heh @pixldev want to make a new GS logo [15:51:17] I’ll sent what I can find since I’m not home rn [15:51:24] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216413102745063566/CVN_logo.png?ex=66004bfb&is=65edd6fb&hm=953b6b9fa402d84baaa38a09c83f641c1c1dcbbfdd061cd9e54574afe668fdcb& [15:51:25] Many prob have a white background [15:51:37] I’ll think [15:51:50] maybe this is the new CVT logo [15:51:51] Maybe change the heze logo to have blue and green [15:51:55] The colors of the globe [15:51:55] yeah [15:51:59] Plus a mop [15:52:10] okay that's the CVT logo then [16:17:35] Quick poll (not in general, cuz, y'know): This is the current interwiki admin role. Now that interwiki admin is gone, I want to keep the logo, but move it to Board or T&S. Which fits more? [16:17:36] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216419699563303023/Miraheze_interwiki_administrator.png?ex=66005220&is=65eddd20&hm=ff80a1eacaa067854daced68d279f91059326d578ee5f6acb153098ea6729545& [16:18:06] Nah gotta use @.labster’s board logo [16:18:21] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1190405830206566531/miraheze_board.png?ex=65fdf7d2&is=65eb82d2&hm=f521c8dbe18039c3f55f4e8f6d77be1c18bbe5ab936ad50a4b75a055eb5d5677& [16:19:09] stupid [16:19:09] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216420088878469280/Screenshot_2024-03-10_at_9.19.06_AM.png?ex=6600527d&is=65eddd7d&hm=c96202368d5ce85f3da9946e39474b6d74b960d3f4d71516755ccedfa6d9e168& [16:19:58] @pixldev ^ [16:20:46] not sure [16:20:47] (This is just for Discord roles btw) [16:20:56] oh I see [16:20:57] I'm not making a userbox for it (actually maybe??) [16:21:03] It ain't that hard [16:21:47] I kinda wanna make the TS logo something with an eye [16:21:49] Like the Phab logo [16:21:51] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216420769937100840/image0.jpg?ex=6600531f&is=65edde1f&hm=3a6397efd1ac27a1ffb83f82ae88b3588a0079474ee1b4c9087d788e2346156a& [16:22:13] new logo [16:22:31] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216420934337167441/Nutheze_black.png?ex=66005346&is=65edde46&hm=4c0b92da14bd33706066c43ebeb3adb05fbc964fbd26b301e92eaffe88a51daa& [16:22:35] oh dang [16:22:40] Y'all that logo for some reason is titled Nutheze [16:22:41] thats the dev wiki logo? [16:22:42] I have no words [16:22:53] Meta interface admin but for this it's going on MW engineer [16:23:08] deez [16:24:21] lemme see what wm did for os [16:24:35] Oh ye [16:24:36] Ah yes the dev wiki logo [16:24:41] the missing pieces [16:25:26] need GS, software engineer, Board, and maybe T&S [16:25:36] you got board smh [16:25:36] CVT is ancient but it's a nice relic so it can stay [16:25:40] sigh [16:25:48] at least add the MH logo in there [16:25:59] its there [16:26:03] pls vot [16:26:05] like ikea furniture [16:26:08] where [16:26:14] the hexes [16:26:25] can you post it here [16:26:31] they are arranged like a group of people sitting at a table [16:26:47] image? [16:27:07] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1190405830206566531/miraheze_board.png?ex=65fdf7d2&is=65eb82d2&hm=f521c8dbe18039c3f55f4e8f6d77be1c18bbe5ab936ad50a4b75a055eb5d5677& [16:27:39] Oh yeah also the GS logo should just be the Steward logo but add a mop [16:27:45] eh [16:27:48] that's what the WMF has [16:27:52] globe and mob may look odd [16:27:54] oh [16:28:09] ah [16:28:14] not bad actually [16:28:16] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216422381984284795/150px-Meta-Wiki_Global_sysop-2000px.png?ex=6600549f&is=65eddf9f&hm=26eb85a5bee82e390e9432a91edb8e1f1f044e40b551ad43ef857dd44ab7a7e5& [16:28:19] for reference [16:28:53] also thw role icon for verified is a bit eh [16:28:59] cause it shows next to everyones name [16:29:05] maybe make it th plain logo [16:29:11] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Meta:Userboxes [16:29:19] that was autopatrolled on Meta [16:29:20] A bunch a role logos exist [16:29:22] ty MacFan4000 [16:29:39] also until i make a icon for mwtsv maybe just put the mediawiki logo [16:29:41] MacFan: we don't have a GS one though [16:29:43] the new one [16:30:04] Uswr CVT is what GS used to be [16:30:29] [1/2] old Meta crat, new Meta software eng.? [16:30:29] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216422940023853206/Miraheze_Bureaucrat.png?ex=66005524&is=65ede024&hm=c8798dbfc4c53f81bb151256aa0dbc036ab1e2d2e624677661a833f0bedc9e88& [16:30:38] [1/2] New design for the former IW admin role icon, since the old one didn't exactly look the best [16:30:38] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216422976216629288/Miraheze_interwiki_administrator_new.png?ex=6600552d&is=65ede02d&hm=3503d82ddcf8bc3aedbfca7717fe4b031b0af4ed397d523e0aac642493aa3b88& [16:30:42] hm [16:30:50] yeah MacFan but CVT is old [16:30:56] and also generally doesn't fit the template [16:30:59] looks more like config then writing software [16:31:04] mop on globe would be better [16:31:34] mediawiki engineer maybe then [16:32:08] There is also User system administrator [16:32:18] (For SRE) [16:32:24] maybe [16:32:44] what about nutheze (krill me) [16:33:12] MacFan4000: if you pop on Discord, looks a lot better imo [16:33:22] this looks more like sre but also the dev wiki logo looked cooler so id want that for sre [16:33:32] switched devwiki to all SRE, Meta crat to MW Eng. (for config), and sysadmin to software engineer [16:33:36] Give in [16:33:38] switched to MWE [16:34:02] yay [16:34:14] so now that we have more peoples [16:34:20] @brandon.wm 2 of them are on the board [16:34:22] I'm a regular user of GnuPG, I use both encrypted & signed emails and signed Git commits, so I know how 2 GPG. Would also be OK with no having test151 access during the election, since I don't need access 24/7 unlike prod, if this is still wanted. [16:34:49] Void/Kiju aren't, but Harej was appointed anyway since there's no expiry to that term afaik [16:34:52] So Kiju is the only independent scruitineer [16:34:53] hey google how does one sign git commits [16:35:06] Did void leave the board? [16:35:18] Yeah, he declined to be a part of the WikiTide Foundation's board [16:35:22] burnt out I assume [16:35:29] He was never on the WT board I don’t think [16:35:33] maybe SWE could be the mh logo but some parts are a dashed outline [16:35:37] yeah [16:35:37] lime its under construction [16:35:51] here let me post a current update of what it all looks like [16:35:54] He's board of MHL still so not fully independent [16:36:08] [1/2] rolz [16:36:08] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216424361859481600/Screenshot_2024-03-10_at_9.36.03_AM.png?ex=66005677&is=65ede177&hm=a7cfd8bce8a31a27a44cd70836c31556a8c6d1bf2f95e1d633f6edafe13d2a52& [16:36:11] MHL hasn’t been disolved yet? [16:36:13] True [16:36:16] Next year [16:36:20] afaik? [16:36:44] oh thats nice [16:36:57] It would be up to @kiju1108 to decide if they want to be only person fully independent [16:37:13] GR is hurting my soul though [16:37:32] it's smaller than all others and I hate it [16:37:33] But I'd suggest either @kiju1108 or someone they appoint holds the private key to the votes [16:37:35] I'd imagine no [16:37:52] I would say Kiju should hold but there should be a few more appointed to the committee [16:38:07] Harej was codified as the backup so I'd consider including him [16:38:17] T&S now [16:38:37] By the way, if you guys want me to switch these in the future that's completely fine [16:38:48] I'm not making on-wiki changes just Discord ones to see what's liked [16:39:02] Kiju should be on it yes [16:39:15] But they should appoint others I think [16:39:17] I mean Void's a part of MHL but not Foundation [16:39:22] so he could probably do it [16:39:49] Ideally who have the technical knowledge of secure poll and are as independent as possible [16:40:04] NDK (if around) [16:40:12] Ye [16:40:13] or maybe you/OS/OA [16:40:24] @bluemoon0332 said they would [16:40:32] And I'm fairly happy too [16:41:18] OA would have to lose MWE access for the duration of the vote [16:41:26] @originalauthority has full mw-admin access and id rather not have to suspend MWEs [16:41:47] Anyone scruitineering should not have the power to interfere with the vote [16:41:47] True [16:42:09] try changing MWTSV to the mediawiki logo [16:42:18] Me, I guess? Highest ranking volunteer with no involvement outside Kiju tbh [16:42:25] But no signed NDA as of now [16:42:34] though that could change I suppose [16:42:37] send me it? [16:42:53] you mean shell access right [16:44:02] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MediaWiki-2020-blob-logo-horizontal.svg [16:44:07] eh [16:44:08] no [16:44:09] wait no not him [16:44:21] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MediaWiki-2020-logo.svg [16:44:26] drat it has text [16:44:27] pls help [16:44:35] Yes [16:44:40] got it [16:44:52] b/c I assume shell could somehow switch SecurePoll votes [16:44:58] Yes [16:45:01] Ahhh okay [16:45:11] I'd prefer not directly copying from MW tbh [16:45:22] SecurePoll needs the signing key to sign votes [16:45:23] Fair [16:45:31] You could modify a cast vote [16:45:35] thought i meant it more as a temp image [16:45:38] Ahhh [16:45:40] That would be bad [16:45:56] Eh you have some good ones, it can wait till you're available [16:45:59] ill make a icon like the other ones o made that has the mw logo in it [16:46:01] Well anyone can ask those doing the tally to check [16:46:33] As you'll have a GPG signed vote and scrutineers have semi CU access [16:46:50] Ah yep [16:46:53] oh [16:46:54] so NDA [16:47:11] And the fact it's a private ballot [16:48:04] Thinking about it, void is stillSRE, so would have to lose ops access [16:48:10] Oh that too [16:48:34] That would be up to him I suppose to decide which he would want to do [16:48:54] SecurePoll allows arguably greater power than CU as it shows aggregate data [16:49:00] (we probably should've codified that elecom members can't hold ops access at the same time) [16:49:05] But it's only on loginwiki [16:49:23] Ahh okay [16:49:37] Oh wait [16:49:38] switched [16:50:05] Meta is the wiki the vote is being done on [16:50:17] Yeah makes sense [16:50:18] also @rhinosf1 on an unrelated note....thoughts on role icons? [16:50:25] They look ok [16:51:11] I'll send you the full list [16:51:14] Aggregate CU is powerful and outside of for the purposes of the vote fairly unethical and probably against privacy laws [16:51:28] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216428217104207913/Screenshot_2024-03-10_at_9.51.22_AM.png?ex=66005a0f&is=65ede50f&hm=1f19cfdac3537b6bcd410226824a31bf1b9a113c6af94b23dcb91a88842c182d& [16:51:38] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216428263879086120/Screenshot_2024-03-10_at_9.51.35_AM.png?ex=66005a1a&is=65ede51a&hm=65c3cd1fcc3d0d8e161b1b316936fece07ecf5c91c56d5e3ab58221ccf4c8240& [16:51:44] Wait [16:51:46] wut [16:52:23] So....illegal? [16:52:39] how so? [16:53:48] Yes [16:54:13] Because what would be the justification for fishing around technical data with no suspicion of abuse [16:54:19] so uh [16:54:22] that’s vad [16:54:37] Yes that's why we need trusted users [16:54:43] And NDAs [16:55:13] I imagine we’ll make it more clear in the coming days [16:57:48] i menat this part mb [16:58:05] How is aggragated more powerful then CU [17:05:52] You can fish [17:06:26] ..pardon? [17:09:26] Look with no cause [17:09:43] The standard for checking technical data is you've voted [17:09:55] And technical data is displayed to scrutineers [17:10:05] Openly [17:10:25] Whereas normal CUs are under a much higher standard of proof [17:11:27] If we're talking about Miraheze the problem here is that once you have an account you're allowed to use VPNs and Tor which I always do so I'm pretty sure that if you looked up me, Legroom, or other VPN and Tor users there'd be a lot of people on the same IP [17:12:42] @collei_no_last_name technical data is more than just your IP [17:12:50] We also have a bit of sense [17:13:18] what is the technical data that miraheze stores? [17:13:30] User agent, Cookies, IP [17:14:04] Do bear in mind it's stored for 90 days [17:14:47] Hmm [17:14:50] Ok I see [17:14:54] Interesting [17:15:13] Couldn't someone like clear their cookies and use a user agent spoofer though [17:15:14] my cookies last much less [17:15:31] You overestimate people [17:15:32] Also like "latest Chrome version on Windows" [17:15:36] Fair [17:15:45] People are pretty lazy [17:15:54] True [17:15:59] The chance of them doing it consistently for 90 days is low [17:16:23] That's a good point [17:16:51] I mean if someone really want to hide on the Internet, sure they can, but it takes a LOT of knowledge and effort to do succefully, far more than most are able/willing to [17:17:34] Quite a few people have been caught by ACE scruitineers on enwiki [17:17:39] Including some bigger users [17:18:49] yop [17:19:21] @gelato_affogato I believe has done ACE before [17:20:20] [1/2] There's a difference between hiding your irl identity from strangers (which isn't that hard to do, harder to hide from glowies though) and making a lot of unidentifiable sockpuppets [17:20:21] [2/2] Making them all in Tor or with a similar browser sounds simple but you'd stick out as one of the like 5 Tor users on the entire website [17:51:08] Wow, I went to my local library and was grabbing some PHP/SQL books and one of the librarians walked up to me and showed me that the library card gives access to a bunch of neat computer tech learning materials [17:51:16] 😄 i love the library [17:51:54] Libraries are awesome [18:05:43] Really! [18:05:44] @brandon.wm The problem with the black logo of [[dev:]]-wiki is that the logo isn't visible if the browser is in darkmode. [18:05:44] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/dev: [18:05:45] [18:17:20] really? [18:17:38] that's wrong [18:17:43] the logo turns white [18:17:54] Nope [18:17:59] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216449992412106924/isemORd.png?ex=66006e56&is=65edf956&hm=cf36c9ec9aa29ed20afcd853e7817bf75269208186b596284931923b046b514a& [18:18:00] what is this then [18:18:07] we don’t have a single SRE to test it lmao [18:18:10] i’ll try something [18:18:27] @eatyourglory please do absolutely nothing with this [18:18:33] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216450136041848923/image.png?ex=66006e78&is=65edf978&hm=94c55073a219a6fa0d368d8019b5c5f99fd56a72599fa80cae9c8cac02e6df72& [18:19:01] sure [18:19:01] yep, looks pretty hard to read [18:19:05] It's the standard Chrome setting [18:19:11] it’s fine [18:19:29] oh you mean the favicon [18:19:36] Yes, the Favicon [18:19:44] yes that is pretty hard to see [18:19:50] on chrome sure [18:19:52] on discord?? [18:20:14] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216450560211816468/image.png?ex=66006ede&is=65edf9de&hm=877a20768c3e5b2b88dd8a09feeb7f445b73cb45279566961ec22b48a035cb52& [18:20:35] why do i have the sre role again [18:20:42] maybe it is a sign [18:20:52] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216450717167128636/image.png?ex=66006f03&is=65edfa03&hm=7b00709eeb05d1f42da39ee5eefb6676b01c676a145c951b6154fcc2c7b058e0& [18:21:00] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216450752776769738/IMG_4206.png?ex=66006f0c&is=65edfa0c&hm=5ff8eea0c2096da573fb9ed096f91a5d47450a0a814b4ecfd8e9a4d4c2783a77& [18:21:01] eh [18:21:09] it’s fine [18:21:12] on my discord OLED theme its impossible to see [18:21:18] shhhhhh [18:21:37] we don’t talk about it [18:21:45] I love black, but not as favicon. 😄 [18:21:56] HUH?? [18:21:57] sure... [18:22:04] lmaooo [18:22:08] you know, we have this blue color with a black emoji??? [18:22:13] Hmm? [18:22:16] Why am I Ro de Jong | volunteer [18:22:20] surely there must be a better choice of colors here [18:22:34] the SRE role color and role icon [18:22:51] I mean [18:22:53] I could do black [18:22:54] but [18:23:11] destiny is trying to tell me something here [18:23:23] why is it green now [18:23:30] 😭 [18:23:48] Something fishy going on [18:23:51] 😄 [18:23:55] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216451486498947082/image.png?ex=66006fba&is=65edfaba&hm=2861042b5ce704fe266c5bcf30468a3464bc6e0c7d27877701e6b9ef49dc3213& [18:23:56] what’s green [18:24:03] just saying the access request form is at https://issue-tracker.miraheze.org/maniphest/task/edit/form/17/ [18:24:08] Oh [18:24:14] don't want to imply anything, just a cool factoid [18:24:14] I know what up I think [18:24:17] ⌛️ [18:24:38] then you can have keep that color and role icon forever [18:24:40] you changed your global display name to have the | Volunteer bit [18:24:50] Not the seever nickname [18:25:08] I noticed back when I saw your name in DMs [18:25:25] huh [18:25:44] damn you are really handing it to me on a silver platter [18:25:55] So go to settings and set your global display name to Ro de Jong [18:26:03] then use /nick to set your server nickname [18:26:14] hence how my nic here and in dms is different [18:26:28] why is verified role greeeeeeeeb [18:27:30] [1/2] is this good enough [18:27:31] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216452389276614706/OQcelyP.png?ex=66007092&is=65edfb92&hm=8720ec1d3f5077e37a90af047fba28f3f0a0cf90b68e5d2dab07569f4bd98497& [18:27:33] Test [18:27:41] perfect [18:27:43] thats… [18:27:52] instant approval, give root to every server [18:27:55] [1/2] Precisely [18:27:55] [2/2] (cc @rhinosf1) [18:27:56] not a ssh key 🤨 perfect [18:28:12] Don’t forget GitHub Owner and registar access [18:28:16] love to hear that [18:28:40] Test [18:28:46] Aha [18:28:53] 👍 [18:29:31] We love Librarians [18:31:09] was it not always- [18:31:52] NO [18:32:08] Well depends [18:32:18] you could have called that green maaaayvr [18:32:22] more blue [18:32:29] BUT NOT THIS GREEN [18:32:31] https://discord.com/channels/407504499280707585/786615849921675294/1216451164749565952 [18:32:45] so [18:32:47] is this fine [18:32:47] or [18:32:55] it's lighter [18:33:11] mmmmm [18:33:21] it being green looks like i'm on the herboristery reliability branch of miraheze [18:33:53] make it more blue [18:34:59] [1/2] not sure I'm digging that chief [18:35:00] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216454273613959418/image.png?ex=66007253&is=65edfd53&hm=a9ad100c4ffd896aa9e8dd3e9cb2b9e74d66bc6d31f157ea08a96056cc47bd97& [18:35:09] MMMMMMMMMMMMMM [18:35:14] YEAH YEAH I DONT KNOW MAN [18:35:23] I'm experimenting [18:35:24] chill [18:35:27] well [18:35:42] actually i like the purple [18:35:45] What about that [18:35:50] But im an outlier [18:35:56] y'all killing me here [18:35:56] I love saturated to fuck colors [18:36:04] I like it [18:36:06] [1/2] impossible to read [18:36:06] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216454552589434982/QDK3ErG.png?ex=66007295&is=65edfd95&hm=258a50cfb56ade04035ea73516df3847805007b3d4b76d20848e7fa946bcf03f& [18:36:10] just a but hard to read ysah [18:36:13] my eyes hurt reading it [18:36:27] why don't we like abolish colors [18:36:27] I like the dark purple concept [18:36:33] No [18:36:37] This is discord land [18:36:46] everything must be colored [18:36:54] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216454752812929134/image.png?ex=660072c5&is=65edfdc5&hm=cd03431baaca36df9eeb4bb8ddce5f73ea985b9aee15ad73c2636f4e5a01330e& [18:37:04] I am absolutely dying over here [18:37:14] New color scheme is wonky [18:37:17] I'll rework it [18:37:28] I like that on my discord the group names are gray [18:37:30] i'm just tryin my best [18:37:30] [1/2] now it looks a bit better [18:37:31] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216454906169262100/cIsJnuH.png?ex=660072ea&is=65edfdea&hm=fe5e7f3b79995f2df431047d13496f0ea3666d39f3d0285f6b5cdb3110805ace& [18:37:45] I wouldn't set normal users with such bright green [18:37:50] yeh that's true [18:37:57] What's that thing they say? Something Something being wrong on the Internet is the best way to get people to engage something something [18:37:59] they were a dull green to sort of not call the attention and accidentally imply authority [18:38:05] back to boring green yeah [18:38:06] Exactly [18:38:07] are you saying we're not as important? [18:38:16] I like that on my discord the group names are gray [18:38:23] nooooooooo [18:38:24] No, go back to editing plebs \>:( [18:38:26] yes (no (idk)) [18:38:41] y'all are back to boring now [18:38:44] and we love you for it [18:38:50] Didn't Xena suggest a new color scheme? [18:38:54] I forget [18:38:56] but I think so [18:38:58] [1/2] Just keep it like this.... [18:38:58] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216455275263955064/image.png?ex=66007342&is=65edfe42&hm=1a7d3bac1cb1d2edab0780a4b1354dcc126df9a5988f4485fe801a992006a1f8& [18:38:59] I don't like how three groups share orange [18:39:03] I like this blue green better actually [18:39:04] (does everyone like the icons at least) [18:39:05] Bots, WC, and trusted volunteers [18:39:09] LOVE [18:39:19] Which Icons? [18:39:21] Kinda wanted to switch bots to neon or something [18:39:28] WC is different [18:39:35] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216455430532890664/Screenshot_2024-03-10_at_11.39.31_AM.png?ex=66007367&is=65edfe67&hm=4708f4b05ddc9ba6cd69ef96cf2944fb7fe164ba9d9d31f5883d76626ed0c30a& [18:39:37] It's still orange \:P [18:39:47] I like WC at the dull brown [18:39:47] The icons are eh [18:39:50] I think we should make the MWTSV role a brighter red [18:39:51] Kind of exemplifies the role [18:39:59] like whats in the mediawiki logo [18:40:05] If you remember, those were actually the icons I originally set when we got to level 2 nitro boosts [18:40:07] a kinda pink red [18:40:10] but they're not the best designed [18:40:13] They look a lot like eachother [18:40:17] :9 [18:40:27] I don't mind em tbh [18:40:27] and Trust and Safety being the IW logo is odd [18:40:37] what if we just made that the new T&S logo [18:40:40] I made icons for the discord based roles that look more different [18:40:51] retcon lmao [18:40:52] it kind of? matches [18:41:18] You can barely tell groups apart now by icon [18:41:31] see the Board icon though? [18:41:37] CVT logo is ugly, I didn't realize WMF'S CVN is like that [18:41:46] That was ours actually [18:41:55] I pulled that off MacFan's userbox list [18:41:59] I'm pretty sure I've seen CVN use that for years [18:42:05] :shrug: [18:42:07] What I was doing with the discord based role icons os recolorong the miraheze logo based on the role color [18:42:07] or a variation [18:42:09] I think so [18:42:11] would that help? [18:42:20] I loved his bot one [18:42:29] we'd probably need to figure out role colors first [18:42:40] What if we recolored MW support to red-purple [18:42:43] Here [18:42:48] YIKES [18:42:51] ja [18:43:00] i like that [18:43:05] Nah [18:43:16] In all fairness it's how they're identified on-wiki [18:43:17] I like in general the idea of having a similar color to the mw logo [18:43:18] No please [18:43:40] Orange is a good colour. Jumps out [18:43:47] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216456485542953040/Screenshot_2024-03-10_at_11.43.25_AM.png?ex=66007462&is=65edff62&hm=1c6a25e713734eff233d2765c7cc98c8e7bd91a01c3e7d0b84031b8914a77bb2& [18:43:50] this discussion in one image [18:44:04] LOL [18:44:39] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216456705886523534/image.png?ex=66007497&is=65edff97&hm=84f5e42c9e9146a86eda700de4714aeef6ffe4c88b12abbe1da8bd49871e6b39& [18:45:04] Miraheze Jeopardy [18:45:08] Winner gets server owner [18:45:09] lol [18:45:17] RRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA [18:45:34] The contrast has to match on regular and dark mode [18:45:40] @.labster and @agentisai would faceoff in this lmaoo [18:45:50] Dark Mode is regular [18:45:57] there's a small set of colors that does that [18:45:59] who's server owner currently? [18:46:03] Mr. Void [18:46:04] Light mode is a mentally insane minority [18:46:10] Void [18:46:23] yeah if you do light mode idk what to tell you [18:46:31] kind of hard to have a server owner on a wiki farm with no owners [18:46:31] I've developed this entire colorset off light mode today [18:46:40] you need to have 1 [18:50:19] [1/2] this is the about one of the few colors I like [18:50:19] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216458128745300098/image.png?ex=660075ea&is=65ee00ea&hm=3dad7866bfc8310086d220a724c9f70ff494126932ffea23936f6e860226a284& [18:50:29] how do I get this role???? pls halp [18:51:21] No one knows actually [18:53:12] what about the IRC? [18:53:51] IRC's closest equivalent to Discord Server Owner is the Group Contacts [18:54:07] so? [18:54:25] Since the merge with Wikitide we actually have a lot of them: https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/IRC/Group [18:55:11] also [18:55:25] how do you become a wiki creator? [18:55:42] request it at https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_permissions [18:55:42] [[RfP]] i think thats the short cut [18:55:42] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/RfP [18:55:43] [18:55:53] [[Wiki Creator]] [18:55:53] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Wiki_Creator [18:55:54] [18:55:59] may wanna read up [18:56:10] i will [18:56:13] also [18:56:23] my translator perms request got archived... [18:56:27] what happens now? [18:56:52] nothing because the meta sysops ignore everything not currently on the board [18:56:56] feel free to re-request [18:57:21] if you didn't get a reply from a sysop that is [18:57:28] i did not [18:57:41] then request again [18:57:49] i'll think about it [18:58:13] that reminds me no-one answered my request to edit the interwiki table on Meta [18:58:39] womp womp womp [18:58:54] I move how many permission requests we getting lol [18:59:13] with wiki creator, a gr, etc [19:00:23] Did someone ping me [19:00:45] ye [19:00:52] Rhinos I think [19:01:02] up there somewhere regard ACE i think [19:01:14] (I do not know what ACE stands for) [19:01:15] enwiki? Yes [19:01:47] Enwiki's ArbComElection business [19:01:57] oh [19:01:59] I believe in this context this gotta be certifier stuff [19:02:29] @gelato_affogato yes [19:02:35] Exactly that [19:02:54] Pointing out Secure Poll elections need independence and trust [19:03:10] It's an important role [19:03:24] SecurePoll is being used for WikiTide's board [19:03:36] It's basically… CUing every voters [19:03:46] So all I can say is good luck whoever doing it [19:04:03] probably a Steward will end up being election admin [19:04:54] Election admin != certifier (not sure if this is correct term, been a while done that) btw [19:05:13] SecurePoll was used to select the WikiTide logo [19:05:22] We'll need certifiers [19:05:33] I'm pretty sure Stewards will end up handling everything [19:05:40] The logo and board seats are kinda a different level [19:05:42] or close to everything [19:05:49] One is well a bloody image [19:05:50] Certifier is basically… an auditor [19:05:59] yeah [19:06:01] One is a legal office of the company [19:06:09] the logo is waaaaaaaaaay more important [19:06:12] You probably want auditor to be pretty independent though. [19:06:20] Yes [19:06:30] So steward doing everything and do certify is probably a no-no. [19:06:50] I'd say so [19:07:07] I'd say me or @bluemoon0332 probably good certifiers [19:07:07] [1/8] ``` [19:07:08] [2/8] Elections shall be run by Stewards who will form an Elections Commission, not including those Stewards who are candidates or are openly supporting or opposing candidates. Stewards overseeing the election shall be impartial and not work toward the election or defeat of a candidate. [19:07:08] [3/8] Stewards are responsible for: [19:07:08] [4/8] Managing communication with the WikiTide Foundation to ensure that an election can be called appropriately and in a timely fashion; [19:07:09] [5/8] Verifying the eligibility of candidates; [19:07:09] [6/8] Ensuring the election is carried out in a fair and lawful manner; and [19:07:09] [7/8] Preparing a report of election results to the Secretary. [19:07:09] [8/8] ``` [19:07:17] [[Community Directors]] [19:07:17] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Community_Directors [19:07:18] [19:07:21] @kiju1108 and @orduin good scruitineers [19:07:34] Stewards can delegate to others [19:07:56] only other role mentioned there is the Director of Trust and Safety in the case the Stewards can't handle it [19:08:42] A director shouldn't be auditing the vote for directors [19:08:57] not sure that page is very up to date tbh [19:09:01] That's like a bloody criminal deciding if their innocent [19:09:35] I've been away from mh business for a while so have probably not enough context, but it's basically… you letting Enron audit their own book I'd say so [19:10:01] Make me an auditor yes yes [19:10:11] [1/3] ``` [19:10:11] [2/3] No later than seventy-two (72) hours after the time by which ballots must be received in order to be counted, the Stewards shall collect and count the ballots, and shall deliver a report to the Secretary containing the total number of votes cast for each eligible Candidate. A candidate shall proceed to consideration before the Board if they receive more support than oppose votes [19:10:11] [3/3] . ``` what? [19:10:13] Either way the community approved the proposal [19:10:13] no no [19:10:15] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_Comment/WikiTide_Foundation_Community_Directors#Proposal_1.2:_Director_of_Trust_and_Safety [19:10:31] can anyone explain "proceed to consideration"? [19:10:31] The community are bloody idiots then [19:10:55] Did anyone consider ensuring people knew what they were voting for [19:11:18] “In the event the DT&S is a candidate, one or more appointed members of the Board of Directors will conduct the election.” [19:11:25] 😂 [19:11:41] Seems like it pretty boils down to manpower issue [19:11:48] Should have voted "oppose" then, shouldn't ya ?? [19:11:50] 😄 [19:12:02] what [19:12:14] hold up [19:12:25] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216463694507151460/image.gif?ex=66007b19&is=65ee0619&hm=2ba7ee88ed567c43d25c1ff0abf6429f145178d2081b86767baf3970d47f4dcf& [19:12:37] I think this election gonna be pretty eventful [19:12:39] can we retcon that [19:12:47] oh god.. [19:13:13] Where is my certified popcorns [19:13:13] Someone just hit the panick button 😄 [19:13:22] That quote was part of the proposal as well [19:13:42] this is us rn [19:13:43] Who actually read that RfC [19:13:46] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216464031267688468/image.gif?ex=66007b69&is=65ee0669&hm=31bd7a891d4ff994af471ff9cfd320481917d1e2d027adbdac3ea54c1ad5c4e3& [19:13:50] I sure didn't [19:13:56] me neither [19:14:10] I guess this is what I get for not voting [19:14:13] @rodejong you bloody supported it [19:14:25] Clearly this is a wise decision in my eyes [19:14:30] You sure? [19:14:38] It was open for a full month [19:15:23] I'm honestly more worried about the "proceed to consideration" bit rather than who gets to run the election [19:15:31] Like what is that? [19:15:56] Go somewhere to sit, and think about election [19:15:58] ez /joke [19:16:15] Standard vetting [19:16:26] but that's all it says [19:16:30] Yes, can we have a civics class [19:16:35] Too much legalese I'd say [19:16:42] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216464768743899267/image.gif?ex=66007c19&is=65ee0719&hm=91baae2a5e52da19293338b268101a6d66e24872056481a468a7f0965e0af55d& [19:16:45] Sign an NDA, legal docs, prove who you are [19:16:51] It could mean that they'll look at the election, but will do whatever they want [19:16:59] you get what I mean [19:17:26] well I sure am readying my popcorn [19:17:29] The issue is in 1.2 right? [19:17:51] at least I hope we actually get an election going, I don't remember this ever happening on Miraheze [19:18:41] I read it as A back-up having a back-up. As such I found that a wise decission. [19:18:48] I can, um see the objections [19:19:22] Point of order, the capitol riots [19:19:37] That's why certifiers and scrutineers must be independent [19:19:39] Come on [19:20:05] Looks like the plan is to get the election going by April [19:20:11] That's it [19:20:22] Our election really doesn't need to be super complex [19:20:33] I trust everyone at the moment to not rig it [19:20:46] If transparency is really such an issue then we can do wikitext voting [19:20:57] Except for RhinosF1 perhaps 😉 hehe [19:21:22] His points are valid but WMF seems to have distrust in different levels of governance [19:21:48] Yeah MH Limited had policy for community directors, but no election ever took place [19:21:51] Point of order: Examknow, Sau226 [19:21:57] Everyone in positions of power [19:22:02] Anyone in WMF distrusts anyone [19:22:11] Have you ever dealt with governance [19:22:21] It’s the Wikimedia Foundation [19:22:25] cant blame them [19:22:35] WMF's? [19:23:01] Any [19:23:03] They're not trustworthy themselves 😄 [19:23:13] Humans are useless [19:23:28] Eh. [19:23:54] If transparency is really such an issue, we can just go back to standard wikitext voting and CheckUsering on suspicion of abuse but SecurePoll was just meant to make it easier for people to vote [19:23:55] I'm going to trust that the Stewards don't try to game the election, since they'll end up running it [19:24:06] If it's going to add more complexity then we must do away with it [19:24:31] Does it make it easier [19:24:41] this is basically our only choice since the election will be by April btw [19:24:44] SecurePoll is designed to add trust as its proper election software [19:24:45] It makes it easier to vote, yes [19:24:58] that wasn't really our goal [19:25:00] Either do it properly or not at all [19:25:02] or, well, mine [19:25:13] Harej seems to actually want to use the encryption features [19:25:21] Not at all it will be then [19:25:24] Harej ❤️ [19:25:25] Well I'd bloody well hope so [19:25:31] Harej should [19:25:36] It's called integrity [19:25:42] Make’s sense [19:25:52] It's not really hard to have someone certify the vote [19:25:57] Me and @bluemoon0332 could do it [19:26:12] not sure I want to get involved in this now [19:26:18] feel free to do it yourself [19:26:25] @bluemoon0332 you have to use GPG [19:26:33] It's not complex [19:26:40] But I mean I'll happily hold the keys [19:26:41] IK but... [19:26:49] The Board will discuss the process further then [19:27:09] might as well go back to standard voting like on RfXs [19:27:38] let's try to keep last minute changes to a minimum IMHO [19:27:46] SecurePoll it is [19:27:49] I agree [19:27:57] but it seems integrity is suddenly an issue [19:28:04] cc @serverlessharej to share your vision on how you intend for SecurePoll to work ^ [19:31:33] well that was a discussion [19:31:46] Either I would hold the decryption key or someone who is otherwise external to the election, and then only decrypt votes once the voting is over and we’re ready to count the votes [19:32:32] preferably the latter option will be done [19:32:45] I like the new board icon [19:32:51] I don't see any issue with the Board auditing [19:32:54] But agree with OS [19:36:48] I do, but honestly I have no reason not to trust Harej, so while I would like for a director not to run the election for their own seat, I think it is acceptable for now [19:37:38] like you said, we don't have that many people to run the election [19:37:49] we'll have to make do with the lesser of two evils here [19:40:32] No director that is running for a seat will be running any part of the election [19:40:44] The only directors that will run for their seat are me, NA, and Reception [19:41:13] that makes it better [19:41:19] Ideally no director should hold the key [19:41:28] I'd be happy to hold the decryption private key [19:41:29] ^ that too [19:41:42] This all boils down to manpower [19:41:54] Ideally, in the future, maybe we can have someone else hold the key [19:42:05] Why is manpower an issue [19:42:12] Surely @serverlessharej can delegate it [19:42:31] and ideally, the entirety of SRE would be fully well acquainted with SecurePoll because I'm pretty sure no one has delved into the docs [19:42:38] I've played with it very slightly [19:42:53] Is anyone fully acquainted with SecurePoll? [19:42:57] I have, whoever is running the votes should keep an install of MW ready [19:43:00] Apart from maybe Tim [19:43:14] so that the private key never touch the servers [19:43:35] The wikitech page is all you need tbh [19:44:22] The decryption can be done on the servers [19:44:43] But they key shouldn't be available until the tallying is done [19:44:49] https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/SecurePoll [19:45:13] tells you all you need to know on how to deal with the results [19:45:23] There’s someone I can ask to do the key management instead, it’s a solvable problem, it’s a matter of finding someone available and trustworthy [19:45:29] just ignore the WMF specific parts [19:47:04] If we're going to be serious, we should 100% do it [19:47:19] There is no Wikimedia Foundation in Ba Sign Se [19:48:32] also guys fandom no longer as the two keeps advertising the new wiki thing ja? [20:10:35] [1/2] I really think this is a bit more complex than it needs to be. We're not WMF and we don't have to do everything the same way they do. [20:10:35] [2/2] Trying to copy WMF has arguably gotten Miraheze into a lot of issues in the past. [20:16:45] I feel like we had to have this convo before pushing for RfC to accept such method [20:17:29] bit too late for that [20:17:44] let's see how this election goes and then we can think of changing policy [20:20:11] Oh absolutely [20:20:18] Good leason for us to remember though [20:21:00] I don't see why harej can't do it tbh [21:20:01] [1/2] WMF and Miraheze are two different structures with two different types of operation around the same core concept, so yes. Trying to copy WMF is a bad idea. [21:20:02] [2/2] Remember what MetaWiki says: If it looks and quacks like a duck it's not always a duck. [21:26:07] who says that [21:26:41] Don’t we say the wxact opposite about the [[wp:DUCKTEST]]? [21:26:41] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/wp:DUCKTEST [21:26:42] [21:30:21] There is [[WP:DBQ]] but I think there also was an entry on meta-wiki about that. [21:30:21] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/WP:DBQ [21:30:22] [21:30:38] Our Meta or WMM [21:30:59] WMM, it's worded but I recall reading something in that spirit there. [21:33:23] So. If it look’s like a Duck, and quacks like a duck, it’s probably a duck. Buuuut it may not be a duck. [21:33:39] Correct. [21:33:46] I love Wikipedia [21:34:03] If it looks like the policy works and could work it might not work. [21:34:04] Probably doesn't mean certainly [21:34:14] this describes me way too well lmao [21:34:47] Probably is like 55-75% [21:35:14] i read so much projectspace stuff on enwiki. If i started engaging in discussions a lot on there my ass with its 7 edits may very well be suspected of being a sock ngl [21:36:01] Speaking of socks, the only time I would reach for CU is when I am 100% sure that it's one operator. CU is just confirmation but I love to be proven wrong. [21:36:21] CU is not a magic tool [21:36:35] It's one possible way to gain evidence [21:37:39] [1/3] CU is like a microscope, it reveals certain things but it's up to the user to draw conclusions [21:37:40] [2/3] Reminder: [21:37:40] [3/3] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216500242988535858/firefox_2024-02-19_21-14-33.png?ex=66009d23&is=65ee2823&hm=ada18496cd990929021c9c392a0229008a2cd7c309b0aa3ebb03418535ab8476& [21:37:42] It's one that is likely to be useful if you suspect sock pottery but it shouldn't be your first or only piece of evidence [21:38:53] Most people do not change their writing style across multiple accounts. I observe how punctuation is used, what words and grammar are used, any slang terms or structure that is repeatable. One's writing style is a fingerprint. [21:41:22] I’ve seen this as well kinda. On one server I act as wiki staff, one of the main staff senior admins notified us that one of the users we had to block was a blacklisted player known for using discord alts to rule lawyer with staff. She shared some screenshots of him typing and I can see what you’re talking about in them [21:41:37] We never did see him sock though [21:44:25] Writing style is a good one [21:45:00] I tend to lurk a lot on [[WP:LONG]] and [[WP:SPI]] and there's a lot of interesting stuff that comes up from just edits. [21:45:00] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/WP:LONG https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/WP:SPI [21:45:01] [1/2] [21:45:02] [2/2] [21:45:31] was wondering what Wp:long was for a sec [21:46:39] Remember every edit has a timestamp, that's a data point you can use, there are tools on toolforge that take advantage of that, people often forget they exist, especially those who operate sock accounts. [21:48:25] Humans make mistakes, they get sloppy, they forget things, they get into patterns, they brag about things, this is what you can take advantage of as an investigator. [21:52:05] May I request elaboration? [21:54:14] [1/2] Okay, one probably has a life outside of editing a wiki, and their schedule will be reflected. Unless there is automation involved, edits will not come in when the individual is sleeping, a low frequency is expected during work hours with a relatively high frequency during their free time. Someone might post from account A, switch to B, and that output will shift accordingly on the t [21:54:14] [2/2] ime scale. [21:55:45] Smart [21:55:50] which toolforge is that [21:57:32] [1/2] Here's what I mean [21:57:33] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216505247120363651/1cf65e83d5977e35.png?ex=6600a1cc&is=65ee2ccc&hm=3156fa05f8b27f2a422a65cd570f6d57f2618d164623f4ef5699404f2adf8d85& [22:02:26] [1/3] XTOOLS https://xtools.wmcloud.org/ec [22:02:26] [2/3] ITL https://interaction-timeline.toolforge.org/ [22:02:26] [3/3] Both very useful [22:04:35] [1/2] This one of the things I look at on Xtools [22:04:35] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216507019771777124/c675b50e8d83b316.png?ex=6600a373&is=65ee2e73&hm=8f67aa8e6f69e7350804221a5d0469fba8f1759933244a00126f104570bf2ba4& [22:06:03] Can you look me up? [22:06:13] Would love to see my graph [22:06:16] 😄 [22:07:36] https://xtools.wmcloud.org/ec/en.wikipedia.org/rodejong Mid-week editor I see [22:08:35] [1/2] For those without a browser: here [22:08:36] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216508027931328692/843c471a34521ccf.png?ex=6600a463&is=65ee2f63&hm=8e49c5266b28d2b47859142e2e8a9a0e73d729e961157c68d8c8aeae7c22fde3& [22:10:01] Nah, I can edit all days, But there has been Formula1 this weekend, so it might have been a slow weekend [22:10:02] 😄 [22:11:10] I rarely edit and I edit from IPs since I can't care less. I see something wrong, I correct it, simple. [22:11:22] But you can see I edit on almost all hours [22:11:53] At least you are not addicted to Wikipedia [22:12:00] Not anymore [22:12:11] I used to before 2018 [22:12:28] Late 2010 shows a lot of edits [22:12:34] But it was too toxic, so I have a few years of inactivity [22:12:40] Yeah [22:13:08] It's when I first started editing. Lot's of discussions [22:13:35] I religiously practice [[WP:DGAF]] religiously on WMF projects. [22:13:35] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/WP:DGAF [22:13:36] [22:13:39] Especially on NLwp and DAwp later [22:14:07] 😄 [22:14:18] That's one way to put it indeed [22:15:00] https://xtools.wmcloud.org/ec/nl.wikipedia.org/rodejong [22:15:16] See factual error, correct factual error, maybe leave a message on the talk page. I don't care what happens after that. [22:15:23] I tend to edit during UK day time, few edits scattered over a day or a large amoun of simlar edits close together over hours [22:16:52] Depends if I am just adding a few things or doing major template or category work, I tend not to edit the lore itself [22:16:59] [1/4] www.wikidata.org 33,522 [22:16:59] [2/4] da.wikipedia.org 32,072 [22:17:00] [3/4] ► nl.wikipedia.org 23,573 [22:17:00] [4/4] I never thought that I had more edits on the Danish WP. Thought I'd had more on the Dutch one (I am Dutch living in Denmark) [22:17:30] Surprising data [22:17:40] I might contribute to Wikifunctions, but at the same time, I can't be arsed to do so [22:17:50] lol [22:18:43] [1/2] I got other shite to do [22:18:43] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216510577040556052/4a47f6196dd58347.png?ex=6600a6c3&is=65ee31c3&hm=ab073e52ce04ca07d7eaafdf20dee38b0041bc019d3dad5b98522760bdaf74b1& [22:19:40] Hey, I have Notepad++ too [22:19:50] The rest I don't know [22:20:03] VS2019, Catalyst Studio, Unreal Engine Editor [22:20:09] ah [22:20:26] [1/2] I have noted that most of what I do on my taerel wiki is category editing, template editing, and sometimes inporting in the new pages. [22:20:26] [2/2] I have noted that most of what I do on my Taerelworkshop wiki is category editing, template adding and updating lists [22:20:40] WikiEngineer, I see. [22:21:01] who? [22:21:37] On Wikipedia I tend to just do WikiGrome edits as an IP [22:21:39] [[WP:WikiEngineer]] [22:21:39] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/WP:WikiEngineer [22:21:40] [22:21:46] I am a Librarian. I love collecting data and put them together in readable pages [22:22:44] I just poke mw with a stick until it explodes in my face, draw a conclusion, roll back the damage and repeat. [22:23:12] J e s u s [22:23:29] I never understand how people get that many edits [22:23:40] I think I have about 3 Wikipedia edits (all minor fixes) [22:23:45] let alone the 13 wikipedians with over one million eidts [22:24:31] Speaking of, how does the idea of using a TDD to request pages and getting back faxes sound to you? [22:26:58] [[Telecommunications_device_for_the_deaf]] those things are pretty cool if you can get your hands on one and I got a fax machine around so all it takes is a simple script that connects to a phone modem. [22:26:58] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Telecommunications_device_for_the_deaf [22:26:59] [22:27:21] Wrong wiki, nevermind. [22:36:26] A friend of mine in The Netherlands used to have one. Don't know what he uses now, I lost contact over the years, but it's a smart system [22:45:38] Would you say I am more of a WikiGnome or a WikiEngeer? Given what my edits on my wikis do? [22:45:44] Gnome [22:45:52] Actually what’s the latter [22:47:17] Bot says a link [22:53:36] Oh like citation bot [22:53:56] @pixldev Yes, pretty much all my edits are probly "wikiGnome" edits, as I prefer to focus on technic stuff like tem,plates and categories [22:54:16] Oh [22:54:20] On Wikipedia, I do rember fixing a red link so it pointed to the right place [22:54:23] So a non mainspace gnome [22:55:10] In mainspace I tend to add/change categories and templates on pages (on Taerelwiki/taerelworkshop, my own wikis) [22:55:24] On Wikipedia, just minor error fixes I find [23:00:01] @pixldev What sort of edits do you do? [23:01:22] Ive made like two edits to the project space adding {{pastmeetup}} to a chapter event page [23:01:22] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:pastmeetup [23:01:23] [23:01:48] in the main space i add little bits of info bout characters in animes I watch [23:02:13] I find mass redoing template calls on my wiki if I wanted to fully redo templates a nightmare [23:02:17] [[w:D-Frag!]] and [[w:Kyubye]] are the ones i recall [23:02:17] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Frag! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyubye [23:02:18] [1/2] [23:02:18] [2/2] [23:02:55] I find mass redoing template calls on my wiki if I wanted to fully redo templates a nightmare [23:03:05] [[w:User:Romaine]] is a real Template fixer I know from the old days [23:03:05] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Romaine [23:03:06] [23:03:50] @rodejong did you add me as a sub on the wikibase task? [23:04:16] What is your fave and lest fave wiki tasks? I hate tasks that involde copypasting templete fields over and over, and huge category moves [23:06:15] I did yes [23:06:34] Thought you wanted to be included [23:06:43] Ah- got it [23:06:45] thanks [23:06:50] I know you love to be included in everything 😉 hehehe [23:07:06] Was confused since It didn’t show in the task you manually added [23:07:40] I do spontaneously combust whenever I’m left out of anything [23:07:51] oh hey the oscars are starting [23:08:08] LOL [23:08:08] doctors hate him! [23:08:28] That's something I really do not like watching. [23:08:48] im not exactly a theater person either [23:09:16] Lucky me that it's in the middle of the night, So my wife is to tired to see it. She'll be watching the replay in the morning, (when I am sleeping) hehe [23:09:33] What is your fave and lest fave wiki tasks? I hate tasks that involde copypasting templete fields over and over, and huge category moves [23:09:38] Hm. [23:09:49] I don’t love patrolling RC [23:09:50] Oh [23:10:12] Stuff like removing unneeded links from a very long page [23:10:49] monotomos repetitive and unautomatable tasks are my bane [23:10:51] I am rather the guy who pokes his nose in every where, and make people upset that I see things differently than them [23:11:13] What do you ,eam [23:11:41] Reorder things in the bottom section [23:11:45] I agree, I hate such tasks as well, esp if they invole many copy pastes [23:12:23] Like External Links and References. [23:12:58] So, you like editing that section? [23:13:45] [1/8] == References == [23:13:45] [2/8] [23:13:45] [3/8] ==External Links== [23:13:46] [4/8] * [23:13:46] [5/8] * [23:13:46] [6/8] * [23:13:46] [7/8] Boxes [23:13:47] [8/8] Categories. [23:14:02] Others prefer External links above the references [23:14:19] Oh. Interisng. [23:15:06] I am all for the new stuff. [23:20:19] [1/6] So I had lot's of arguments on Danish Wikipedia when Wikidata was being introduced. [23:20:19] [2/6] I started to include them in the Infoboxes. [23:20:20] [3/6] But Danes are culturally seen very ... conservative. They don't like changes. And often are 10 years behind in switching over. "This is how we always done it" is an often used phrase. [23:20:20] [4/6] They also have a mentality like bringing anyone down who shows initiative. [[Law of Jante]]) [23:20:20] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante [23:20:20] [5/6] "You're not more than us" [23:20:20] [6/6] So as a Dutch guy, who grew up with "ram your fist on the table, to get things done" had to change his persona when I moved there. It was a total culture shock 😄 [23:20:21] [23:21:39] But I was ... stupid ... and tried to do it anyway as I saw that it could save us a lot of work, and give more reliable data from Wikidata, which they saw as losing controle over what data was being shown. [23:22:27] [1/2] Lot's of arguments later It ended with me being banned. [23:22:27] [2/2] As I said, I had much to learn. [23:24:41] The ban was the best thing ever, as I quit Wikipedia all together then, and made me step back from it. Up to then I took it all too personal. [23:25:11] So good things can come from banning people [23:25:41] Hmmm... here I am writing life stories again 😄 [23:39:08] [1/2] That was my average work week on Wikipedia 😄 [23:39:09] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1216530814607560764/image.png?ex=6600b99c&is=65ee449c&hm=ae290ccec219ec9799b386f146741797428dbdca4dc0df41802fed9a38f1c75c& [23:41:12] Ro..