[01:09:34] :SupportMH: [01:10:21] me too [01:18:19] I have a better one. What if everyone was called "Anonymous" and had a UserID. [01:48:35] WikiTide into Miraheze. The name that will continue is Miraheze. 👍 [01:49:07] Nope. We are offically rebranding to WikiTide [01:49:11] Not if the Board has anything to say about it [01:50:23] This is what most people wanted but the Board is trying to override that decision sigh [01:50:58] It's not a big issue, our wikis are still the same, but ignoring community consensus sets a very bad precedent [01:51:01] Whatever tho [01:51:05] It's being discussed on wiki [01:51:06] imo might be better if you chose between either this account or your Koreirose one [01:51:12] and I think there's one more even [01:51:21] it just allows for consistency is my 2c [01:51:44] @collei_no_last_name [01:52:16] ah yes [01:52:20] I have around 6 accounts but only these 2 in the server (there's also Colleirose but I can't login to it so I'm not counting it), and alr I'll probably stick to this one for Miraheze purposes because it has most of my group chats on itv [01:52:25] I agree with that, Tali64 [01:53:40] If I were to count every account, including ones that are banned from Discord, I've lost the password to, are stuck on phone verification, and so on, I've probably created 10-15 accounts since 2023 I think [01:54:05] jesus [01:54:27] But I only have 6 that I've actually used for anything this year and only this one, Koreirose, and Colleirose have been used for more than testing bots, playing around in DMs, etc [01:55:41] I had created all the accounts for specific purposes but I've forgotten what the purposes are and what the original names were given how much time has pases [01:56:14] The way is said "we agreed to move forward" it looks like "the people with voting rights" agreed [01:56:27] Have you used a password manager? [01:56:33] Yes [01:56:55] But there's a lot of results for Discord including backup codes, third party apps, etc. so I didn't bother to count them all [01:57:37] I have one central KeePass DB and that works for me. Also how do you manage to get your discord locked? It's hard to get TOS banned. [01:57:41] There have been times where I messed up entering the password or forgot to press save in the password manager etc and lost a new account I made but that's happened less as I've gotten better at using the password manager [01:58:45] should I just kick colleirose? [01:58:56] [1/5] Each time it's happened, almost everyone I know got locked or warned around the same time, not sure why it happens so often honestly [01:58:57] [2/5] List of reasons I've gotten in bans, warnings, and account standing limitations: [01:58:57] [3/5] Spam [01:58:57] [4/5] Child safety [01:58:58] [5/5] Child self endangerment [01:59:04] If you want sure [01:59:16] done [02:00:27] [1/3] Haven't kept track exactly but I think I've gotten like 3x child self endangerment 2x child safety and 5x spam [02:00:27] [2/3] I read the linked policies and am pretty sure I did nothing wrong, I asked Discord support what I was banned for and all they'd tell me is that they'd uphold the ban [02:00:28] [3/3] So no idea but I guess the worst server I've joined would be japanesepeopletwitter which is a more questionable community [02:02:09] the last two... You either have moderator/admin permissions on some shady discords or you write some things that get reported and sent to the trust/safety team. [02:03:16] Yea [02:04:40] [1/3] That looks like it. The thing is that it looks like Miraheze is a sole property of the staff and we are here like people who inhabit a house but aren't owners and can't decide a thing. [02:04:40] [2/3] So the staff are managing and doing it "what is best for it" because we can't decide. [02:04:40] [3/3] Or as an alternative, we don't know how to manage ourselves. [02:05:32] Getting banned by discord is two extremes. You either get banned for just having an account or you have done something that has gotten into the press and makes discord look bad. Discord is a hot mess [02:13:43] I think that's was the plan all along. Since many months ago. [04:56:45] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1230743873295351888/image.png?ex=66346e8d&is=6621f98d&hm=0f937e5316061b3d69bf1b9f5dfd0824a2eec0c5b5978589de021829a1a26bd2& [05:05:38] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1230746106963427408/cursed-asthma-v0-5g8q64kih8vc1.png?ex=66234d22&is=6621fba2&hm=74af03a71b9fb50079e308adf456392603e92d7e6690c518bd95c9df71c2c236& [06:37:37] [1/3] guess what got indexed lol [06:37:37] [2/3] I suppose it's because of custom domain? [06:37:37] [3/3] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1230769252609294346/IMG_20240419_093509.jpg?ex=66348630&is=66221130&hm=833559da4e8d26ef14d75c98872ac90278a0b554519385d1c16d9a15810aa07d& [08:52:39] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WikiTide [08:55:17] Yeah, got updated today [09:00:20] You brought up a good point in the RfC btw, what I think is missing was proposal 4 "Wikiheze" (imo bad idea) [09:01:40] I gotta add to proposal 3 rq [09:01:55] [1/2] Which point are you referring to? [09:01:56] [2/2] And yeah, that is worse than WikiTide [09:03:14] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1230805902802550804/image.png?ex=6634a852&is=66223352&hm=ac040316126bea8399314961aeb3acf3a82bd420ada6a36c56c6a2e065f35b45& [09:04:53] Timing and Handling. [09:05:02] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_Comment/Miraheze%27s_name_and_branding#Comments [09:06:12] I did not even remember this thread existed - been up for 24 hours now [09:16:17] my comments on page should be just about done for the forseeable future [09:27:43] [1/2] We were said Miraheze was absorbing WikiTide so we will continue on Miraheze. Not the opposite. [09:27:44] [2/2] And recently board members said this will be called wikitide because 'Miraheze' is It is causing commercial opportunities to go away and that makes it difficult to maintain the project. [09:28:52] commercial opportunities, no [09:29:10] technical volunteering opportunities seems to be the big one they want and have made this bet for [09:29:50] forget about anything commercial, we are a charity [09:30:51] The thing is that this is not by the community and is not for the community [09:31:36] the intention is for the benefit to run down to the community, but indeed the handling has been botched [09:36:17] I haven't watched Harej's presentation yet but got a silly question - do Fandom people attend mwcons? [09:37:49] [1/3] It is hard for the board to acquire skilled volunteers, as (What labster says) they do not want to be associated with "Miraheze". For those few people, the community is set aside, to please these skilled volunteers. [09:37:49] [2/3] The problem is... They might not even join anyway, as WikiTide = Miraheze. [09:37:50] [3/3] You can take the name out of the organisation, the organisation is still the same! [09:38:49] [1/2] yeah, I just [09:38:49] [2/2] don't understand this too [09:39:46] also least y'all forgot how much people were asking about requirements for SRE volunteering, and they were pushed by - NDA [09:40:05] during hard times in summer 2023, I mean [09:40:23] just as soon the devs are going to look at the incidents that have run up to and including the decision of renaming and come to the same conclusion anyway [09:40:34] indeed they'd have to be living deep under a rock not to notice [09:41:11] either because they didn't to reveal their PI, or because there was no point to sign existing at that Miraheze Ltd NDA and people were waiting for Foundation one [09:43:51] there's no win on that one tbh, nda is the single flimsy barrier that exists against abuse of the most dangerous power available [09:45:09] absolutely [10:15:04] [1/2] An NDA is pretty useless in any state becauase its arguable whether or not WikiTide has the funds to pursue someone for breach. [10:15:04] [2/2] In this instance signing of an NDA is a goodwill gesture. [10:40:26] It's slightly better than useless @originalauthority [10:45:44] Disconnected from irc again grrrr this is why i dont use it [10:45:50] Absolutely useless [10:53:31] Get a bouncer [11:15:57] A whay [11:41:41] A thing that keeps you connected [11:41:56] Hosts your connection in the cloud and you connect to that [11:42:08] IRCCloud is used by many of us [13:14:06] good morning, and tomorrow is Saturday, yay [13:22:03] I voted 👍 [13:42:08] I'm using irccloid [13:45:41] It should keep you on for 2 hours then [13:45:48] Any longer and you got to pay [13:46:15] Ill just stick to discord and stay connected forever for free [14:10:02] [1/5] Regardless of the practicalities of enforcement, it does provide: [14:10:02] [2/5] * an outline of volunteer obligations to the org and community's data [14:10:03] [3/5] * A signed understanding of appropriate use of systems [14:10:03] [4/5] * a stronger avenue for future enforcement should it ever be needed [14:10:03] [5/5] I do hope we never reach the point in which enforcement does become a necessity, but I don't think it's appropriate to suggest it's fully toothless/without purpose. [14:13:39] Did I miss smt [14:22:09] Nah, just a general reply to an earlier comment [14:23:20] Aight [15:23:40] [1/2] Board members decided on their own to change the name and identity of Miraheze so we can convince people to work here, and because those people are superficial and judge Miraheze by the name, is better yo change the name than to change the manners. So we can have the same manners but with a different name. [15:23:40] [2/2] That's the impression it gave me the speech they said to the community [15:26:14] We want that people under a rock to help us here at because we are a brand new wiki. With none of the vices of the past. [15:49:01] If we have to rename we should avoid anything with an ambitious pronunciation and this is 2 different possible pronunciations [15:51:05] Some lawyers take cases on a contingency fee basis, i.e they don't get paid unless you win, and by extension they usually don't take cases that it's hard to know if they'd win, but I think someone breaking an NDA and leaking a lot of PII is a case that you could easily win [15:54:47] I agree with this, I don't think people are more likely than before to join Miraheze if all that's changed is the name [15:56:10] Maybe instead of MiraTide, we go with WikiHeze. :p [16:07:22] It’s been proposed but that defeats the part about pronunciation [16:18:04] That’s not what’s been said when people have attempted to recruit, so I’d refute that part of the argument. [16:21:31] @.labster are you going to be uploading the slides from yesterday’s presentation onto WM/MH Commons or linking them on wiki? [16:27:52] <.labster> I probably should do that. The conference organizers will also be uploading them [16:28:13] <.labster> They're in Keynote format for no particular reason, it was just the easiest tool at hand for me. [17:25:58] You didn't read Labsters comments then. [17:29:46] Danke you:) [17:29:59] Say thanks to all the organizers for me plz [17:30:10] I hope to be able to go to next year's MWCon [17:31:18] Same if it’s on the east although if it’s schedule is the same in that it’s all day during the week I wouldn’t be able to anyways [17:31:32] It's in Ohio next year, supposedly [17:31:55] https://tenor.com/view/qyuwi-qyuwi-ai-ohio-gary%27s-mod-running-gif-4748032648497466694 [18:03:01] What was said by Lab? It’s true that volunteers won’t come because of the name. [18:13:48] If volunteers are simply refusing to volunteer because of the name of the organisation, that brings questions about the type of volunteer they are. People don't necessarily buy a name, they buy the value and work you do, the accessibility of it. [18:16:49] @owenrb the name is associated with history [18:17:50] But it's the same organisation, the same history - if anything the act of renaming has been done in such a way to show even with a new organisation leading, the same problems exists and will continue under a new name [18:18:32] WikiTide Foundation has actually conducted one of the biggest middle finger moves to the community in Miraheze's history based on people's reactions [18:18:46] I am glad I moved to self hosting now [18:20:36] the real one [18:21:19] The history argument in favor has been muddied at best with the rename process [18:22:53] Deem's reply on the rename rfc strikes very true imo [18:23:19] They should of asked us first before starting to rename the farm [18:24:01] There was an ask, it was how and handling that jigged it [18:25:05] I thought they decided to go ahead, whatever the commuity said [18:25:27] So they asked after the decision was allegedly already made [18:25:31] That is unfortunately how it ended up happening [18:25:37] But before it was announced [18:26:50] It's hard to see how any disagreement would have actually affected things, really dislike the rff in its entirety for that [18:27:02] The rename was handled poorly [18:27:06] :thistbh: but considering the fact the board hasn’t really responded much besides labster I imagine an insight into the decision and process is going to be released still [18:27:31] I don’t wanna flame this too strongly until I read that [18:28:16] The board must convene and make a proper answer [18:28:36] Also, I have noted that Orcale Cloud appears to do a good free plan. I am intersted in using it [18:31:15] They do when you can get it [18:31:46] Imagine the worst, most unreliable, shittiest credit card processor in existence [18:32:38] Then imagine it was designed by the devs of Cyberpunk 2077 [18:33:09] Then multiply by suffering raised to the power of insanity [18:33:16] It’s basically that [18:41:37] Is it really thatg bad? [18:43:44] I could aways try set it all up ahead of time [18:44:12] The lynchpin seems to be if it’ll accept your card [18:45:02] I mean, the £6 a month saved would be nice though [19:03:04] Indeed [19:03:07] Agreed [19:03:15] A volunteer refusing to volunteer entirely because of the name might not be very good [19:14:53] I mean, will they lisan to us? [19:20:10] The Board of course listens to the community [19:21:56] [1/4] I'm not opposed to a rebranding (I even suggested it back in June, when everything exploded, as I felt "miraheze" doesn't really come across as a wiki site at first sight) but this is awkward at the very least. Please forgive me if this recap is not accurate, but it's what I understood from all this fuss. First, some guys leave Miraheze and create their own wiki farm for reasons; then [19:21:57] [2/4] , as Miraheze sadly proved it couldn't properly function without them, those same guys offer to merge both farms under the pretext that the old 'miraheze trademark' would be respected, as it was the better-known one; the community backed that rescue plan and apparently things started to work fine again, which we all are grateful for; and now, all of a sudden, miraheze is not a valid n [19:21:57] [3/4] ame anymore and we're all moving to our savior's chosen name when they first decided to run away from miraheze. Again, while I get and even share some of the reasons for a rebrand, it does seem to me like a childish way to prove a point, especially when it's imposed like this. Which only adds up to the whole mess of this last year. Why don't open a public process to choose a brand-new [19:21:57] [4/4] name, not linked to this recent past at all? Also, as a mild-NSFW wiki admin, I find this sudden change of heart, so opposed to what we were told during the merge, frankly concerning. [19:22:06] @brandon.wm you're not a corporate press officer [19:22:41] No but given the history of those that sit on the Board, I think it’s unfair to throw out that the Board is some corporate megalomaniac [19:23:25] Throw out the fact they are a corporate megalomaniac by sounding exactly like a press officer of a corporate megalomaniac [19:24:52] Not sure what you want me to say here. The Board was elected by the community. We trust them. This absolutely could’ve been handled better, but to say they ignore the opinions of others is false. [19:25:06] Individually, have any of them ever done so prior to this? [19:25:21] 100% could’ve been handled better but it’s not as if they’re dictators. [19:25:28] You didn't need to say anything tbh [19:25:42] Sometimes saying nothing is better than saying anything [19:37:37] [1/3] The NDA looks to me as a instance of "we got your dox please don't leak" [19:37:37] [2/3] I checked hte WMF NDA and that only requires a valid name. [19:37:37] [3/3] The only orgs on the internet getting my actual name is my bank and colocation provider for the company I run since they need a flesh human being to contact. Nobody knows where I live except my IRL friends (PO box) [19:45:57] I’m not sure why we’re debating the validity of an NDA [19:46:58] In a case of egregious bad faith, a breach of contract claim could be brought [19:48:10] Labster literally said he ignored our opinions [19:49:12] Also the board was elected by the community under the assumption that they wouldn't force Miraheze to rebrand or operate differently [19:49:29] As that reassurance had been given numerous times [20:02:38] Also, about it being too late to go back because it was already announced at MWCon: that's a niche conference that not many people attend, if the rename was never followed through I doubt many people outside the MH community would remember the announcement [20:04:48] use the classic mIRC or something open source idk [20:18:10] Also - let’s try and move all future discussion to #general on this topic. Thanks! [20:18:45] personally I think it may be better to keep it here to not get in the way of support [20:19:12] There could be a thread in #general as a compromise [20:19:47] That would butcher visibility [20:22:56] Nah general is probably max visibility and #support also exists [20:23:21] support is more for long stuff [20:23:56] we dont want someone to come asking about how to enable an extension only to be meet with a rebrand debate and asked to move to a thread [20:25:56] :SupportMH: We have a RfC on meta already [20:26:28] eh i dont like the rfc as a discussion venue but whatever [20:26:40] I already said ill wait to see if the board published an insight [20:26:47] im too tired for wiki-bickering [20:27:03] I personally would not advocate for an on-wiki venue as the main point of discussion as you’ll see that page get full fast. [20:27:39] Keep essentials there and the rest in general. [20:27:44] imo [20:28:20] Offtopic is more of a everything-topic (some cases will get one redirected to another feed) [20:29:48] [1/2] I think discussion on the situation is appropriate in offtopic because it is not very ontopic compared to the usual discussions and #general has a lot of new people asking for help and seeing a debate about the rebrand would be off-putting, a thread in general chat would reduce visibility a lot and sometimes we change the topic from the rebrand to something else and it' [20:29:48] [2/2] d be awkward to be like "oh let's talk about XYZ miraheze thing in general chat or a new thread", it is much easier to talk about it here because it's very visible to regulars without disrupting people asking for support, reducing visibility unnecessarily, and being awkward [20:31:16] Meh, if a Discord mod alongside me wants to overrule, they can [20:31:25] Offtopic is fine until it’s not [20:53:06] I haven't red much backlog so apologies in advance if I am misunderstanding here but IMO offtopic is fine for almost any discussion (even if technically ontopic and you don't want to backlog general) I don't see a problem with using offtopic. [20:55:12]