[01:28:29] I had an accidental nap [01:28:38] With dream 💀 [02:44:21] am I seriously the only one who reads safety instructions on a plane [02:50:13] I'd like to make a proposal in #discord-forums to create a meme channel but i'm not sure if that proposal would go over well [03:08:59] We don't really get a lot of memes; any memes we do get can be posted here in offtopic [03:09:04] hm alr [04:30:50] When I waked up, I was like "Did I just sleeped" [04:31:40] btw yesterday I stayed up to like 1:40 am, and i waked up like very tired [04:32:26] so with that accidental nap I recovered those hours lol [04:35:23] [1/2] Quora... I don't know Hebrew [04:35:24] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1236536700767830066/Captura_de_Pantalla_2024-05-04_a_las_10.34.59_p.m..png?ex=66385e0b&is=66370c8b&hm=b118e31c567a34c7b44fea2b8ded2f1248bc4afccb9304651165ed69f175a197& [04:53:04] zionists have taken over your device [05:05:26] [1/5] anyways, here's some good news, regarding the story of a particular wiki: the wiki about the band Yes was finally revived recently: https://yeswiki.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page [05:05:26] [2/5] ok, so why am I talking about this wiki in particular? well, it's because there's an interesting story to this wiki. years ago, they used to have a wiki on Fandom that iirc had 5000 pages. sometime in like 2021/2022, for no apparent reason, that wiki was closed, and I'm gonna assume that they looked at the wiki name and say "this is spam" [05:05:27] [3/5] https://web.archive.org/web/20210415173445/https://yes.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page [05:05:27] [4/5] here's a snapshot for someone having the "yes wiki" created but as an empty wiki (and I'm gonna assume not about the band): https://web.archive.org/web/20220326175416/https://yes.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page [05:05:27] [5/5] but hey, 2 years later, someone on miraheze finally requested a wiki for the band. it doesn't have 5000 pages, but for what the wiki has documented so far in just a week, it's doing pretty good [05:09:01] I just have quora just to get bombarded with mails with crazy stories like "My uncle drug me and something I can't say" because idk [06:35:26] damn lmao [06:35:48] Yes weee highly influential how can you fuck up so badly [06:36:00] 5k article [06:36:13] I assume no dumps were left [06:43:20] It's unfortunate that it got deleted like that without even checking the content [06:43:52] Yeah, Quora is crazy lol [06:45:07] yeah [06:45:15] but hey, at least the wiki is back in a decent state [06:45:30] I haven't otherwise seen any other revivals of the wiki beforehand [06:47:04] thinking again about music wikis alliance thing which was suggested at some point here [06:48:00] that would be cool [06:51:10] [1/4] like u have the Soft Cell Wiki [06:51:10] [2/4] and there's the Ennio Morricone Wiki [06:51:11] [3/4] and there are also a few expansive external wikis of bands, such as The Police and Sublime [06:51:11] [4/4] and of course, let's not forget the other Fandom wikis of actual pop stars and bands such Taylor Swift, Ariana Grande, Justin Bieber :P [06:52:47] and there are some really good wikis based on a genre, like the jpop wiki and the kpop wiki [06:53:02] and another two good wikis of edm labels, which are the monstercat and ncs wikis [06:53:08] SPcodex is quite big and ot started on Miraheze initially [06:53:43] I think the that actually made me start on my own was Elvis Costello wiki [06:54:00] NIN wiki feels very odd tbh [06:54:02] and finally, there's metal archives, which I think counts as a wiki? if so, I'd argue that's the best music "wiki" [06:54:51] those on fandom? [06:54:56] yes [06:55:09] but content wise, they're pretty high quality [06:55:22] DMlive wiki is massive tbh, it acts like archive too [06:55:41] don't even know who dmlive is/are lol [06:55:49] Depeche Mode lol [06:56:13] it initially started as place for documenting live recordings and shows, it seems [06:56:47] https://dmlive.wiki/wiki/Main_Page [06:57:07] btw, of course I expect there to be wikis for like pop stars cuz they are famous and have a fanbase, and wikipedia usually isn't enough for the documentation of albums/songs/etc. [06:57:38] but the niche wikis that have like thousands, if not tens of thousands of pages, are interesting [06:57:52] music wikis overall seem to be in a minority comparing to other mediums [06:57:55] and like [06:58:30] yes, when the artist/band is big, there's definitely gonna be someone were nerdy and dedicated [06:58:45] and bunch of fans are very very organised and stuff [06:59:07] [1/2] if not - congratulations, you're fucked lol [06:59:07] [2/2] that's my case [06:59:57] plenty of fans over 40 out there but they're sooo unorganized, passive or plain greedy lol [07:00:14] yeah [07:01:20] if I was there in the 80s, man, I wouldn't miss anything, and would probably be the first person to run a proper fan site, and make a wiki by mid 2000s [07:01:37] interesting [07:03:30] [1/2] here's Elvis Costello btw, 31k pages lol [07:03:31] [2/2] https://www.elviscostello.info/wiki/index.php/Main_Page [07:03:36] [1/3] tho if anything, my favorite type of music wikis are the genre/label wikis, most particularly the ones that are expansive (like I've said, wikis such as monstercat wiki, jpop wiki, vaporwave wiki, eurobeat wiki, ncs wiki, etc.) [07:03:36] [2/3] because the artists documented on those wikis are otherwise not like very well known, but not very obscure either [07:03:36] [3/3] however, it's nice to find out basic info about who the artists are in the form of a wiki, where they're otherwise not documented on wikipedia [07:05:24] [1/2] yeah, just talked about this wiki, earlier [07:05:25] [2/2] like it's cool that a wiki of one particular/more niche musician exists, but I genuinely wonder how u can get so far as to having 31k pages [07:06:12] they document everything, even magazine interview [07:06:19] the guy is very fruitful too [07:06:48] for comparison, I know this is a totally different subject of wikis here, but games like minecraft and dwarf fortress are very in-depth games, their wikis have 10k pages each lol [07:07:16] my wiki isn't about single band too, it's supposed to be everything about 2 artists, but my brain can't take solo Marc Almond shit and I just hope someone else will jump on that lol [07:10:35] [1/2] these guys nearing 5k [07:10:36] [2/2] https://musewiki.org/MuseWiki [07:11:36] there's also http://tmbw.net/ [07:11:58] 6k pages [07:13:01] I love their name lol [09:22:45] I reckon it was due to copyright issues [09:25:54] I think if we had the manpower to thoroughly investigate wiki's, many would get closed. [09:26:38] [1/3] @felenov https://discord.com/channels/407504499280707585/407537962553966603/1236455951364653147 [09:26:38] [2/3] You mean on a wiki farm like here on Miraheze? 👀 Otherwise you have to take care of the hosting as well which is more troublesome than syncing an Obsidian vault. [09:26:39] [3/3] I like Obsidian for personal notes because I just like having all my files locally. But it's true, still searching for a way to have wiki-like templates in Obsidian, it has at least three template systems and they're mostly for copy-pasting >-> [09:27:10] After using mediawiki templates there's just nothing better for certain things [09:44:46] stable fan communities are arguably free matketing [09:46:18] if it was something along the lines of piracy yeah, I can see DMCA being justified on a platform (indie wikis don't care) [09:46:59] but otherwise it hurts artist's image more than helps [11:22:00] [1/7] Depends. Disney for example is quite strict, especially with music and video's. [11:22:01] [2/7] Fan content can only go so far. [11:22:01] [3/7] If they copy everything, on several sites, the exclusivity is gone. Another problem is our licenses. Cc-by-sa states that you are allowed to make money from it. So If I were to play dumb, and make lot's of money from making merchandise, I could claim, well On Disney.miraheze.org (no does not exist) it states cc-by-sa so I am allowed. [11:22:01] [4/7] That would mean, I go free, but then Miraheze comes in trouble as we host that wiki who falsely claims that images are available under that license. [11:22:01] [5/7] Disney is known for their aggressive campaigns against copyright violations. [11:22:02] [6/7] We just do not want to, nor should, get to such point. [11:22:02] [7/7] And even though the likelihood is small, it would be another stain on our reputation. We really need to clean up our act. [11:23:31] images don't state they're CCBYSA when tagged properly like w/ fair use [11:25:02] That is the main problem. If no license is given, the logo at the bottom showing CC-by-sa would provide the license for that image [11:25:37] That would include any video or image [11:25:53] [1/2] again, more and more people now hate disney and nintendo for their rampant copyright attacks, but clearly they're too huge to care [11:25:53] [2/2] other companies are more cautious of their image/perception [11:29:02] Miraheze does better job at telling users about copyrights tbh [11:29:20] the fact that file licenses are needed [11:30:48] [1/2] Unfortunately, they just put a PD on an image that is licensed under cc-by-sa [11:30:49] [2/2] Or forget licenses. No sources given, ... It's a mess. really a mess [11:33:06] Fandom, despite having default set of templates, doesn't get this trough [11:34:59] "no sources given" is what drives me up the wall the most, especially when I'm doing research. I started adding that information to my images because I was tired of forgetting where I got them from lol (even if the info is just "screencap from the movie itself") [11:35:26] Screencaps are a problem as well [11:35:39] [1/2] oh that's yeah lol [11:35:40] [2/2] pinterest my behated [11:36:22] I figure a single cropped frame from a movie to put in the character infobox falls under fair use [11:37:51] sometimes I think pictures just spontaneously spawn on Pinterest because I'll be finding stuff there that doesn't seem to exist anywhere else :p [11:38:04] I never understood uploading a barrage of screenshots [11:38:06] I agree. A little fragment is no problem. The problem is that some users copy several images that tell the scene, which then no longer falls under fair use [11:38:45] exactly, and lack of sourcing or descriptions is frustrating [11:39:09] also reposts from other places which actually do have info [11:39:19] just cus yeah, collecting fave pics [11:39:36] and I gotta somehow find the original copy [11:41:00] [1/2] Same with uploading an icon to use on ones user page, does not fall under Fair use. [11:41:01] [2/2] Fair use is only permissible under "Educational" status. Not for own entertainment use [11:42:18] it's kinda covered by DMCA tho? [11:42:38] or nobody would be permitted to post on social media [11:43:48] etc [11:45:50] [1/2] Uploading to social media is always ending up in a far less quality and a bit distorted. Often only available in 50x50px, and as such the big tech try to avoid the problem. [11:45:50] [2/2] But yeah, Social Media are a big problem. As everything is AI nowadays, much isn't seen yet. Just switch the image from left to right → right to left is confusing. You see that on YouTube. [11:46:51] And then after 3 weeks they delete the vids, before the owners can have their reports filed. Then all YouTube can do is state "The owner has deleted the content" [11:47:23] Copyright is a minefield. [11:48:38] Commons.wikimedia.org has a large group of volunteers who daily check new uploads, and a load gets deleted straight away. [11:49:48] I would rather suggest that commons.miraheze gets closed and users only be able to upload to Commons.Wikimedia or on their own wiki. [11:50:08] We simply lack the volunteers for this, who also have the ful knowledge [11:51:11] I seem the one being most active on that front. But I only can do so much besides WikiCreation and Development wiki [13:08:03] It's self-hosted and for me it's pretty easy since I already maintain two other wikis (software docs and a sandbox wiki) and there is some level of automation in place [14:38:59] Oh yup in that case it's awesome 👌 [15:20:18] [1/2] @neoqwerty menacing shit [15:20:18] [2/2] https://dearsoil.bandcamp.com/album/raw-ambassador-barbaric-tendencies [16:46:19] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1236720645468061806/Screenshot_20230910-110749.png?ex=6639095b&is=6637b7db&hm=f1897941c4630e226cc0fa02a5940687e1ca2f941ff8b28a589150fb4a1baf42& [17:04:54] ….. [17:07:33] We need to recreate FandomDesktop: Cosmos sucks [17:07:48] wrong [17:08:04] cosmos > oasis >>>>>>>> fandomdesktop [17:09:28] Well kinda [17:09:40] Cosmos is kinda old [17:10:05] I don't entirely mind FD but I think some changes could be in order [17:10:25] evelution started as fd fork [17:10:37] but now it's whatever it is ... [17:10:52] Yeah I did not like Evelution at all [17:11:07] cosmos is juuust right [17:11:18] :DoneMH: [17:11:39] Has too much shit going on in the screen [17:11:45] Yeah [17:11:52] Looks weird, hard to navigate too [17:12:15] So we should recreate FandomDdsktop? [17:13:01] Sometimes I love FD [17:13:17] I am willing to help with that if you want after I finish working on recreating Discussions but I think some changes for FD could be useful [17:14:14] I don't know how to make a skin ☠️☠️☠️ [17:14:40] Just read the documentation [17:15:07] I could help you a bit if you want though but not a lot because I want to do my other ideas [17:15:25] [1/2] One thing is that the sidebar on the left is crap [17:15:25] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1236727969125236736/Screenshot_20240505-101427.png?ex=6639102d&is=6637bead&hm=aa9f7d66cb1b0e236cd894af9179c288a002f207512cb1945ee0cf7b1fced7b4& [17:16:18] Let's infiltrate into FANDOM's FTP server and download the skin right from there lol [17:17:16] Their code is all stored in a private GH repo, if you can compromise the account of someone with access you can do that [17:17:27] But it's not well legal [17:17:41] So not something I'd talk about here [17:17:41] lol joke [17:17:50] Yea I thought so lol [17:18:37] sidebar just needs to be placed horizontally on yop, and then you just get sligtly updated oasis [17:18:57] like vector to vector 22 [17:19:04] Yea [17:19:53] Also the language dropdown needs a localization-related icon next to for people who don't speak English and wouldn't know what it means [17:20:55] Also FD fork would need integration with Pix's theme designer, SocialProfile, and my Discussions [17:24:11] why not tbh [17:24:51] cosmos is just a re-created oasis, and not much issue there [17:25:03] I mean, yeah [17:26:03] FD kinda sucks but I kinda like it [17:27:00] imo, the skin itself isn't the worst, it's just the fact that it is associated with the terrible ads experience [17:27:15] I prefer it adless over evelution [17:28:30] and I guess it can be made like without the global nav to the side, but rather on the top [17:29:57] Yea [17:30:15] not like there's really a global nav on miraheze to begin with [17:30:36] but there is the local nav of a wiki on the top of the page and then follows you [17:33:50] Yeah I know [17:34:12] I'm thinking the "global" nav could be merged with this [17:34:13] [1/2] let's take this nav for example, instead of a search button, we can put a search field, and page counter can be below those buttons [17:34:13] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1236732698295271504/image.png?ex=66391494&is=6637c314&hm=5da63adbd0642b57c881314a20000b2f6d974e166fa1827b0dfa3e9d760733e0& [17:34:32] I think a search button popup would be fine [17:34:56] [1/2] search field will also exist here, and profile and notifs will be on the right side after the buttons [17:34:56] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1236732881041231973/image.png?ex=663914c0&is=6637c340&hm=abf31797b62a593b21daec046e07ca28cca8f833ad655cd7980f2e8e4f783def& [17:35:05] I think extendable search bar is nicer [17:35:09] than popup [17:35:12] I was thinking of the left [17:35:23] Hmm I see what you mean [17:35:29] But I'm not sure [17:35:46] nah, I don't like it, takes time to load [17:35:47] One sec I'm going to draw what I'm thinking of in my mind [17:35:57] search field is simpler [17:35:59] I mean make a drawing [17:36:02] One sec [17:36:05] I'll send soon [17:36:11] but if navigation has a lot of items it can be a problem, unless you it opens up bellow or above, but that's probably gonna look weird [17:36:52] Could be an issue regardless of it being on the left or right [17:37:03] Hold on a bit [17:37:10] I do a remember a time back in like 2018 when u click search, the links to "games, movies, tv" disappear, seemed cool to me [17:37:53] not a bad option, but a search field that's always visible to me seems the best imo [17:38:38] agree [17:38:58] but you also just can make same thing that cosmos does [17:39:11]