[00:22:02] [1/2] average rust build process [00:22:02] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1251330845609037824/image.png?ex=666e302a&is=666cdeaa&hm=1006b187325669b84c17e704a46bf04ba5faaa2d254e4527a1d9599d161e7d39& [01:03:16] Btw what’s was the worst wiki you had to deal with [01:08:31] Yea reception wikis are pretty bad [01:09:40] I've also seen wikis that started with good intentions and had a genuine purpose, but eventually people stopped caring and now it's just sitting there, unmaintained and vandalized to high hell [01:12:09] Short rant: How come QuakeNet still not support TLS and SASL? It's 2024. Even Freenode has those things implemented. [03:37:22] [1/2] I wrote ga instead of wa, is that really wrong? Isn't she the object? Or is kawaii the object? [03:37:23] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1251380003111960626/Screenshot_20240614-203551.png?ex=666e5df2&is=666d0c72&hm=8063cdff363a8b411c68e75c09825daabbcd217f08cd4b0c2279cf7f78218e07& [04:11:05] I've seen game wikis get created on Miraheze every day, a lot of them end up being abandoned and left with like a few pages at most [04:13:59] And most of them are like a rehash of an already existing developed wiki with an active community [04:17:47] If I were them, I wouldn't really find a point requesting a wiki when an established one already exists, unless if we're talking about forking to Miraheze and that it was agreed upon the community, otherwise, it'll just be pointless competition imo [04:22:28] Though thankfully, there are some original game wikis being established on Miraheze, or at least the best existing wiki of a particular game being on Miraheze, and even if those wikis are small, I'd be willing to help out those wikis. I keep a curated list of good game wikis on Miraheze for this reason [04:34:46] Ye [04:35:13] Although I'm talking more about wikis that usually get established with a whole community at its back but then it just gets abandoned [04:35:26] It mostly happens on Fandom [04:35:59] Haven't really seen it in Miraheze tho [04:36:58] Like with the Little Einsteins wiki, I was scrolling through it because I was curious, I knew fandom was trash but there was no other wiki so yea I just left it at that [04:38:20] It was absolutely riddled with vandalism, every single link was broken and led to a page that either didn't exist or wasn't related to whatever page I was on previously at all, and clearly has not been taken care of for a while [04:39:54] But despite that, it was still full of information and images from the show n stuff [04:40:07] So clearly it was loved at some point, but now it's just there [05:15:10] I believe competing with other platforms is acceptable [05:19:14] @foxstep_the_cat 100% agreed. Abandoned wikis deserve more love and better treatment in general, even if they're only on Fandom. [05:21:34] Even tail64 saved some of them [05:21:49] Yea [05:24:21] I personally do help out on the newer/smaller gaming wikis on all 3 major wiki platforms, and I even promote some on reddit [05:26:05] Yeah abandoned wikis are just sad as they start turning into a pile of dust that just sits here clogging the amount of wikis with no use left but to rot [05:37:01] I'm a bit late to the discussion but yeah, it feels like it's either March or late October right now. I don't remember a recent summer that's been so cold and rainy [05:38:34] Yea, and I feel like it's sorta a waste of space in a way, like I'm pretty sure that whatever data that dead wiki is using could be used by a wiki with a happy, bustling community [05:38:47] But even then, every wiki deserves a chance [06:05:58] Well put fox well put [06:18:50] Thamk [06:19:11] I'm trying to be a tad more active here so seeing how nice y'all are is kewl ! [07:03:37] That’s what people who don’t know about miraheze always downplay this farm without knowing the true intentions of the community [07:04:24] Yea, I know I've been here for a bit but I tend to not really talk in new servers and be weary of the people there [07:05:00] But it's nice to see nonetheless [07:05:20] I'm really happy with my wiki, and how helpful the community is when I want to make it better [07:06:06] Seriously y'all are so patient n understanding thanks for all y'all do [07:08:13] [1/2] Yeah the only ones complaining are the people who don’t know that the wikis have changed I even saw someone on deviant art who has nothing better to do then complain complain instead of trying to change stuff for the better and think that because one thing is bad that means all miraheze wikis are bad which is clearly not the case remember tho [07:08:13] [2/2] se who confuse the character wikis are only character receptions and that it nothing else [07:11:52] Yea, also I'm hoping to somewhat eliminate the stereotype that Miraheze wikis are bad or low-effort. I mean, you literally need to submit an application for a wiki, meanwhile on fandom you could create a wiki all willy-nilly about quite literally anything [07:12:21] Agreed only fools believe in stereotypes [07:12:24] And I honestly prefer the application method as compared to the freedom method [07:13:11] Because I feel as if someone decides they wanna own a wiki on a whim, they can actually think about how much maintenance and time a wiki actually needs before they create it [07:13:27] there's no moderation on opening, but shutdowns happen often + bear in mind that serious wikis are legacy of Wikia [07:13:37] And if they decide they want that wiki, they can create a clearer idea of it [07:13:38] As those who do the stereotype are appeal to ignorance at best who refuse to anything of the truth [07:14:21] Yea, you are right about that [07:15:36] Fax plus those who think miraheze is bad stereotypes please those are appeal to ignorance at best they have complete lack of knowledge of how this wiki farm works [07:22:33] Yea [07:22:49] You should probably actually take a peek at some wikis before you decide what to think [07:22:57] Or ask someone who uses it how it's like [07:23:17] But eh whatever it's 2am and I don't feel like making a strong argument rn [07:25:57] How are you? [07:26:09] Im working on stuff while listening to music [07:34:58] I am very good I am mostly known as the LWC ADMIN guy as I make most of my edit their [07:55:37] Kewl [07:57:51] [1/2] One thing I do not tolerate I will tell you are users like these [07:57:51] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1251445553393434644/IMG_3081.png?ex=666e9afe&is=666d497e&hm=7fe671c303d4f632bbac7d280b6928ae9e76033ecc13c7d7b92331b2c18f4d2f& [07:58:18] Ooof [07:58:24] That sounds like it sucks [07:58:43] social profile extension needs to be dumped tbh [08:01:42] Yes I despise foe request sent to me for no reason plus it’s one of the worst features I ever seen [08:02:54] Context as I am missing the point myself [08:02:59] For requests are a thing? [08:03:06] *foe [08:03:13] Yes they are [08:03:29] What genius came up with that? [08:03:41] That’s thing no genius [08:03:52] Yea lol I was being sarcastic [08:04:01] Ik [08:04:17] I was playing along with it [08:04:41] @theoneandonlylegroom what do you think of foe request feature [08:04:45] Oh sorry lol I misread that [08:04:52] It’s ok [08:06:02] Tbh it's a bit awkward being hyperfixated on something extremely obscure cuz im basically the only one editing my wiki lol [08:07:07] Like yea wiki bots do come in to do maintenance and sometimes this guy from my discord server fixes a typo I didn't catch but then I'm the one writing in everything lol [08:07:17] imo, what I think is sad is that some people shame a wiki for being incomplete or even insult the wiki itself only because of where the wiki is hosted [08:07:34] Not complaining tho, I'm passionate about the topic and I know a lot about it [08:07:43] Appeal to association fallacy then [08:08:07] Just because a wiki is related with a bad wiki farm doesn’t means it’s awful [08:08:13] exactly [08:09:06] kinda insulting to say "ugh, the tboi wiki sucks cuz it's only on fandom", when one could instead say "the tboi wiki is a great wiki with good content, even tho it's still on fandom" [08:10:08] Tbh if the wiki is accurate, well moderated, and actually serves its purpose, it's a good wiki [08:10:33] [1/2] This is what they use [08:10:33] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1251448751105642546/IMG_3091.png?ex=666e9df9&is=666d4c79&hm=a2fd02bade10c4a0e1e928a4c31f71c535611d5880b2d7035953b6cd585c44a7& [08:10:45] exactly [08:11:07] fandom and its wikis are the perfect example as to why nuance is important: we don't have to like fandom for being fandom, but no need to insult the wikis hosted there [08:11:23] Correct [08:11:25] more power to u being the change u want to see in the world ✊ [08:11:35] hell yeah [08:11:53] my wiki is for a kinda obscure manga that i got into in 2018 and thought "well someone will make a wiki im sure!" and then i came back to it in 2023 and fuck all has happened [08:11:54] unless of course, the wiki intends to be a competitor to a clearly well established non-fandom wiki [08:12:02] I didn't know people insulted wikis just based on where they're hosted, that doesn't make much sense [08:12:16] [1/2] Aka [08:12:16] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1251449182691262485/IMG_3091.png?ex=666e9e5f&is=666d4cdf&hm=5f41b777a0283425d54ef88dfa050dccf4cc6b76a2db8763ee01085b499663d9& [08:12:51] yeah but here it's not even that, as being hosted by someone isn't really an actual association [08:13:00] but honestly, I don't recall the last time where, for example, someone advertised "join the wiki on fandom instead of the other one!!!" on reddit [08:13:01] Welp [08:13:10] Still the claim follows that [08:13:18] That reception wiki sucked [08:13:28] Tbh I just wanted to show people the series without having to talk about it so when people are like "what do you watch on YouTube" I just slide em the wiki [08:13:29] And because they were hosted by miraheze then miraheze sucks [08:13:32] but I mean I have seen that before, with people thinking MH is a terrible place just because we used to host reception wikis [08:13:54] true, except this time, it was the other way around: it's not the host being bad, it's the reception wiki(s) being bad [08:14:01] Like people need to stop using fallacious [08:14:08] Yeah still a fallacy [08:14:29] That could be more understandable if there was really a host that didn't moderate wikis and things like that [08:14:43] that's what I'm saying [08:14:46] but blaming wikis for being hosted by a platform is more difficult [08:14:49] admittedly, I used to think that a little bit, especially since miraheze was unheard of to me before reception wiki(s) [08:15:05] If we take the Fandom example, many people probably don't even know there's other free alternatives [08:15:26] If the wiki is a wiki, it's a wiki. If the wiki is just a half baked unmoderated mess, you can sort of complain about it [08:15:27] or it might be too much of a hassle for them to move especially since Fandom doesn't really allow advertising your wiki on another hos [08:15:57] i havent been neck deep in the wiki circles in a couple years but i feel like general public's opinion of miraheze is generally positive and "fandom but no ads" [08:16:11] I mean [08:16:17] I use cosmos template so [08:16:20] Yea basically [08:16:35] that's fair, but even then, just insulting the wiki isn't productive either. giving out criticism as to where the wiki can potentially expand on is [08:16:42] I can finally see my beloved page without dune 2 and Paramount+ clogging my sidebar [08:16:57] Yea, I should have mentioned that [08:17:28] i used to css out the ads on my fandom wikis and got told off by staff lmao [08:17:37] BAHAHAHAHAHA [08:17:45] @reception123 how much do reception wikis cover of miraheze [08:18:58] honestly, I tempted to do the same, especially since my smaller wikis are y'know, smaller wikis, probably rack a few cents at most [08:19:20] Herrrmmm [08:19:20] very little especially since a lot of them shut down a long time ago [08:19:29] I can't really give an estimate but it's a very very small percentage [08:19:33] reception wikis are probably like <0.5% [08:19:35] Ok so basically now it’s gal under [08:19:36] couple quarters is a generous estimate id say more like 0.0001 cents [08:19:47] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1251451074506788934/IMG_3092.png?ex=666ea022&is=666d4ea2&hm=5b7a07941f572096085ca665fedf7072fbdf259e2a9c974125764b2071b8bde4& [08:19:49] and that's assuming there really are 40 reception wikis here [08:20:21] For people that think that because reception wikis are the most known think that every wiki is one and that reception wiki were bad type of stuff [08:20:47] Idk but I feel like i should probably bring up the AI thing going on with Fandom, which is the main reason why I left it [08:21:01] what the hell is fandom doing now [08:21:05] [1/2] there are some wikis with like 100 monthly views, others with like a few thousand [08:21:06] [2/2] either way, they shouldn't be really profitable [08:21:13] Well this #offtopic so you can blast away [08:21:34] Well apparently to my knowledge Fandom is planning to add something called "quick facts" to their wikis [08:22:27] There's no way to disable or remove these "quick facts" and they are generated by AI reading through articles in the wikis [08:22:35] recently, they did publish a blog/community connect talking about how they want to improve the ad experience and how 2023 was a big failure of a year to them for the recent controversies [08:23:25] they're now editable, idk if they can be removed tho [08:23:46] Meaning that these "Facts" could range from slightly off to just straight up wrong [08:24:05] ahhhh google ai answers 2.0 wonderful [08:24:08] Still means AI read them [08:24:27] ai models have read everything already anyway [08:25:15] And while this is unconfirmed, I could even theorize that they're probably using the wiki quick facts and stuff to train AI to make wikis [08:25:40] Or at the very least training them to write informational/technical essays [08:25:45] honestly, no idea where they pulled the training data from [08:26:04] but from wherever it did when they were first launched, it was just plain wrong 😂 [08:26:23] [1/2] The small sample is the reception wikis only and not every other wiki that isn’t one that miraheze still host and I find some people still use the reflection of reception to think MH is awful [08:26:23] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1251452734679416852/IMG_3092.png?ex=666ea1ae&is=666d502e&hm=174a6e67f3be26f65dc07ece4a93328de7f01f39f709cae41113207f058c8f21& [08:26:31] Yea... Idk man, I just heavily dislike the idea of fans not getting accurate information because they don't want to read [08:26:42] agreed [08:26:43] Again hasty general [08:27:01] So they click on AI generated quick facts that tend to be wrong a majority of the time [08:27:30] quick answers from the start should've been an opt in feature, editable, and reviewed by human wiki editors before publishing [08:27:42] Yea [08:27:52] Not saying it's wrong to want to get quick information on a character [08:28:03] Just when there's a high chance that information is wrong [08:28:09] exactly [08:28:23] Especially when we let AI do it [08:29:21] even during my Fandom Star days, I was pretty critical of features like this and how they were managed terribly and could've been done better [08:29:42] and if you're curious, yes, quick answers was pretty critical even among fandom stars too [08:30:53] same thing for stuff like how forking is handled and the logged out ad experience [08:31:13] Hmmm [08:31:26] Tmw your own celebrities don't like your features [08:31:28] What are fandom users known for [08:32:37] HOLY SHIT ITS ABOUT TO BE 4AM IN MY TIME [08:32:41] I need to sleep [08:32:44] i dont think anyone not on fandom's payroll likes fandom's business decisions [08:32:51] gn [08:32:53] Editing wikis and wanting to contribute to feedback for future features [08:33:02] Good talk but I need to not be awake at 4am [08:33:07] lmao gn [08:33:11] Exactly [08:33:11] GN [08:33:17] Good night [08:33:25] @foxstep_the_cat get your sleep it’s important [08:34:07] useless, it's part of social profile, which by itself horribly outdated extension [08:34:41] Most user agree that for request are dumb and need to be nuked [08:35:49] i wish there was a better alternative for social profile [08:36:12] a extension that just adds profile pics. i can dream [08:36:29] iirc Authority was working on an alternative [08:37:40] Btw [08:38:05] Which is the most common fallacy you see people use [08:38:10] https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Argument-from-Ignorance [08:39:11] [1/2] the one ur using right now [08:39:11] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1251455955133272115/image.png?ex=666ea4ae&is=666d532e&hm=9c8c573cfe6d9cdeda2cb9d578eb04e62f51ccf50f5c48d0a7239e51956ae50a& [08:40:27] When did i argue that [08:41:02] constantly trying to categorize every argument as a fallacy [08:41:35] Which I didn’t even say in the first place so that just [08:43:23] Because that by self it something I didn’t argue I was only talking about the claims against MH not every single one [09:27:52] What's a "Fandom Star"? [09:31:09] https://www.fandom.com/fandom-stars/ [10:49:47] as applications go miraheze is really quite lenient [10:50:07] the outcome is still often dropped potato or something doomed to be eh at best [10:51:10] long term something I'd want to try and I'm not sure I will, is a small by design host no larger at its peak then idk, the indie wiki group which consists exclusively of serious projects where people really have thought it out and they only die after at least giving it a good working go [10:51:59] that and/or a pay for what you use model inspired by nearlyfreespeech.net [12:29:19] I do think there should be options on the market for it [12:30:02]