[00:17:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> Here where I live (Nevada) we had a Flash Flood, was actually really nice
[00:17:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> Nevada needs the water lmao
[00:17:20] <BlankEclair>	 why did i think of adobe flash
[00:18:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> I miss Flash
[00:22:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> Glad there's that team that made a extension that can play Flash extensions, though it's not perfect
[00:22:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> I think it's called Rufflw
[00:24:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <yoshi459292927370272> So blank what do you do at miraheze as I see your part of people who use the relay
[00:26:02] <BlankEclair>	 i maintain the rainverse wiki (https://rainverse.wiki), help out on phorge and discord/irc, and occasionally check meta
[00:28:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <yoshi459292927370272> Rainverse huh what’s it like in their
[00:30:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <yoshi459292927370272> Blank what is the rainverse wiki like for you
[00:51:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> i haven't been on meta in ages wow
[00:52:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <yoshi459292927370272, replying to originalauthority> One question how is telepedia going for you
[01:09:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> good
[01:54:28] <BlankEclair>	 yoshi459292927370272: there's only two other editors and they're both bureaucrat + admin, but otherwise nice
[04:12:30] <Felenov>	 I would say in a healthy wiki there's at least 2 crats, 4 sysops, 1 person who can into IA and rollback coverage 24/7
[05:00:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> definitely at least 2 crats is a minimum
[05:01:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> crat and sysop are synonymous most of the time
[05:37:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [1/3] a forked to independence wiki copied some bits of "moving from fandom" essay I did for pizza tower wiki lol
[05:37:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [2/3] not directly credited but there's a link to essay anyway 
[05:37:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [3/3] <https://dovedale.wiki/wiki/Project:Moving_From_FANDOM>
[05:43:40] <BlankEclair>	 hate it when i find two bugs in cargo in under 24 hours of using it
[06:24:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to originalauthority> The weather sucked yesterday
[07:47:56] <BlankEclair>	 a bug i found is caused by type juggling >_>
[08:16:10] <BlankEclair>	 should i bother reporting bugs in cargo that i haven't faced in the wild yet?
[08:29:46] <RhinosF1>	 Ye but to Wikimedia's phab
[08:31:28] <BlankEclair>	 i think i'm starting to see php's bad reputation
[08:42:38] <BlankEclair>	 i thought i found four bugs in cargo
[08:42:42] <BlankEclair>	 turns out it's just three
[09:21:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> do fandom wikis have copyright disclaimer in editor, and does visual editor anywhere have that?
[09:22:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> also we still haven't implemented a "warning" on request form? like we discussed on noticeboard that requester should consider if they'll be able to run a wiki at all, check guides etc
[09:24:36] <BlankEclair>	 what kinda warning?
[09:26:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reception123> I think Legroom is referring to my idea since we've got an issue where people underestimate how hard it is to make a wiki
[09:27:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reception123> So we wanted to, at least in a first instance, have a warning that basically says "Are you sure you're able to create a wiki by yourself? See [{X page]] for more details"
[09:27:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reception123> eventually they'd have to answer an additional question but that could at least be a start
[09:28:01] <BlankEclair>	 hmm that seems like something that could be done by changing a localization string
[09:28:13] <BlankEclair>	 the hardest part is writing X page
[09:28:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reception123> yeah, the actual warning is easy but we'd need a page explaining why creating a wiki by yourself is a difficult thing and if you don't have someone to help you might want to think twice
[09:29:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reception123> not that it's not possible but it takes a lot of motivation to build a wiki by scratch and then also have people visit it and become editors
[09:29:08] <BlankEclair>	 yeah you definitely want someone who'd spend hours to chase down a bug
[09:29:21] <BlankEclair>	 (i kinda wonder how the rainverse wiki would've gone if i wasn't there)
[09:32:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> my initial question still stands tho, I'm just on phone, re fandom and copyright/license disclaimer
[09:34:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to reception123> an experienced admin will handle this ofc, we usually see total newbies getting disappointed by the whole process of setting up a wiki, even those who wish to fork but don't have enough experience get stuck
[09:35:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> there needs to be some kind wiki editor + admin basics page
[09:36:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> I was thinking about this recently actually, as I watched those SW fans who wish to start a new wiki don't know a lot even about editing
[09:36:33] <BlankEclair>	 SW fans?
[09:37:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> there was a Wookiepedia (Star Wars wiki on Fandom) drama and a portion of fans decided that there needs to be a new and better wiki, I checked their discord out of curiosity
[09:37:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> I know there were attempts at an intro to admin page
[09:37:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> na might have been one of the ones working on it
[09:38:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> yeah, I think it was NA
[09:38:02] <BlankEclair>	 is it just me or is miraheze kinda slow lately
[09:38:18] <BlankEclair>	 yeah it's NA: https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/User:NotAracham/Welcome_to_Miraheze
[09:39:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> what I'm thinking which might compliment na's resource is a primer of key things to know initially, leading into those docs
[09:39:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> that's not something I can even start until next month though
[09:39:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> how's that new SW wiki business going btw @bongo50 ?
[10:07:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bongo50> I've not really checked in on it
[10:07:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bongo50> My interest declined when I realised it wasn't a proper fork
[10:07:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bongo50> I don't even like Star Wars
[10:26:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac, replying to theoneandonlylegroom> I seen that
[10:27:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> Their main account runner for twitter/X also unfollowed a ton of people. even my wiki, which had a Star Wars page (they were unfollowing accounts that didn't have relations to Star Wars media
[10:28:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> I think it's leafy? or something like that
[10:28:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> Was super chill with me, but after everything he's now stopped talking to me in full
[10:29:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> He's going coperate lmao
[10:46:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to aidenthetoymaniac> [1/2] no lol, different guy
[10:46:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to aidenthetoymaniac> [2/2] he was booted from wiki
[10:47:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac, replying to theoneandonlylegroom> No, I'm not talking about the guy that got booted
[10:47:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> I'm talking Leafy, he's a admin of the wiki
[10:47:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> And runs the twitter
[10:47:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> I should have specified
[10:48:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> this @justleafy2003 ?
[10:48:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> Hm?
[10:48:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> Ya know what
[10:48:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> I think I'm actually getting this mixed up 💀
[10:49:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> It's not that leafy, he's chill
[10:49:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> Tbh I'm a little tired so yea I thinknI got that mixed up, Mb
[10:51:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> 😭
[12:15:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority, replying to BlankEclair> Thats not phps reputation you're seeing its Yarons poor coding
[12:15:27] <BlankEclair>	 yeah half of it is the bad code
[12:16:01] <BlankEclair>	 but like, why is (string)false equal to "" and (string)true equal to "true"
[12:16:39] <BlankEclair>	 wait no, (string)true is "1"
[12:21:50] <BlankEclair>	 https://unstable.systems/@AmyZenunim/112810984528719221
[12:25:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> Google Search is fuckin horrid they need to just shut it down.
[12:46:15] <RhinosF1>	 Php is weird with true/false
[12:46:23] <RhinosF1>	 When not as a Boolean
[12:48:18] <BlankEclair>	 casting a boolean to a string though, just weird
[12:48:58] <BlankEclair>	 i rewrote trim( $paramValue ) into $paramValue === false ? '0' : trim( $paramValue )
[12:50:03] <BlankEclair>	 ...and now i gotta check whether or not i used single or double quotes in my patch because i'm not yet used to php yet
[12:50:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> Doesn't really matter most of the time
[12:50:23] <BlankEclair>	 yeah it's kinda a nit
[12:50:25] <BlankEclair>	 unless $
[12:50:42] <BlankEclair>	 oh okay i used ''
[12:50:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> I always use doublen so i dint have to escape apostrophes etc
[12:51:47] <BlankEclair>	 i started out programming in python so i used single because lazy, but then starting using c and c++ so i switched to using double quotes, and now i'm editing php lmao
[12:56:06] <BlankEclair>	 i'm mildly curious, what style should edit summaries be? Add "I'm gay too." or Adding "I'm gay too."?
[12:56:16] <BlankEclair>	 i do the former because i'm too used to git commit messages xD
[13:00:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> Both work
[13:01:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> I tend to just do "+ xyz" and '- xyz" if removing sttn
[13:01:32] <BlankEclair>	 is there generally like a common style or something is more what i'm asking
[13:01:44] <BlankEclair>	 though conventions can depend per-wiki so not like it matters :p
[13:14:57] <BlankEclair>	 nini
[13:15:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> don't think so
[14:02:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <justleafy2003, replying to aidenthetoymaniac> Nah, wasn't me at all
[14:03:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <justleafy2003> I'm no admin of Wookieepedia
[15:09:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to bongo50> Fork of what?
[15:10:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bongo50> Wookieepedia
[15:24:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to bongo50> You do know we do not allow for forking other wiki's right?
[15:25:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bongo50> this isn't related to Miraheze
[15:25:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bongo50> Wookieepedia is a Fandom wiki about Star Wars
[15:25:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> Ah, okay
[15:25:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bongo50> I saw some people talking about starting a new Star Wars wiki and assumed they would be forking the existing Wookieepedia
[15:26:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bongo50> But then I realised that they were planning to start from scratch and didn't even know what MediaWiki was
[15:34:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> LOL, Ok
[15:36:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> yeah, I'm not very hopeful either, plus no doubt there were attempts before
[15:36:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> wookie is too big and too old
[15:37:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> still can't remember what was Miraheze wiki, seemingly focused on some part of SW
[15:37:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> I remember its admin asking for infobox help
[15:38:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> if stars (lol) will align we are more likely to see full on community fork as they wanted to do ages before
[16:01:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> Iirc there has been quite a bit of tension on wookipedia for years now -- i wouldn't be surprised if they did eventually fork.
[18:18:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <solodayheavenofficial> https://link.springer.com/journal/12230
[18:44:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <yoshi459292927370272> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1264654369496760320/IMG_3148.png?ex=669ea8a9&is=669d5729&hm=5f7152a97af1420a23344df4fbb92769dfff0dd1b85f899703a6e0c692ec3f42&
[19:16:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <crazierinzane> Oof America
[19:17:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <yoshi459292927370272, replying to crazierinzane> PRO BEAR
[19:17:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <crazierinzane> Good luck, everyone.
[19:18:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <yoshi459292927370272> Warning this will may make your device load slowly as this is meant to be a thing on how to not make a page||Take a look at this reversion https://greatcharacters.miraheze.org/wiki/Mario_(The_Super_Mario_Bros._Movie)?curid=10213&oldid=104825||
[19:19:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <crazierinzane> The NL is accepting skilled workers still.
[19:19:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <yoshi459292927370272, replying to crazierinzane> Hi
[19:22:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <crazierinzane> Always register to vote and fight the tyranny at home.
[21:02:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mooncloud> Biden dropped out of the election?
[21:09:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac, replying to mooncloud> I seen that actually, yes
[21:09:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <luasucks> Helloo
[21:09:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> I'm not gonna get into it, Politics are a mess
[21:09:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac, replying to luasucks> Hola
[21:10:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <luasucks, replying to aidenthetoymaniac> yeah probably for the best...I could go on and on about protecting the NHS here in the UK
[21:10:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> Lmao
[21:10:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <luasucks, replying to aidenthetoymaniac> How are you :-)
[21:11:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> Good, just got my wiki approved, so I'm heading to work converting from Fandom
[21:11:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <luasucks> Ah awesome! I moved from Fandom
[21:13:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac, replying to luasucks> [1/2] Yea, it's this
[21:13:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac, replying to luasucks> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1264691857041133619/IMG_20240720_145049.png?ex=669ecb93&is=669d7a13&hm=99d1d0d2e3d1bc63bf364c0a2bc38c9e739350b943a35cca29a938daefc37da7&
[21:14:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> It's definitely going to be for the better
[21:14:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <luasucks> Try to download the zip file from fandom first, its helpful
[21:17:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac, replying to luasucks> I don't know how to, so I'm being very Barberic & doing it all manually
[21:19:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <luasucks, replying to aidenthetoymaniac> ah fair enough, Yeah I did a few things manually too
[21:21:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to aidenthetoymaniac> [1/2] you know about page histories, right?
[21:21:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to aidenthetoymaniac> [2/2] I suggest to ask our folks w/ wikiteam bot to get dumps for you
[21:22:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac, replying to theoneandonlylegroom> Well I heard a little about the dumping in #how difficult is it to run a Miraheze wiki compared to Fandom?
[21:22:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> I'm not completely dumb, only slightly.
[21:23:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <luasucks> I can relate lol
[21:28:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> Jeehesus
[21:29:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aidenthetoymaniac> This is gonna take a lot of getting used to
[22:04:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority, replying to mooncloud> Dont even think he knew he was in the race
[22:06:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <crazierinzane> Wikis will be dead in < 2 years.
[22:28:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <luasucks, replying to crazierinzane> i doubt it
[22:38:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <drewindigo> nope