[00:16:32] MediaWiki's core search is bad but with extensions we get advanced search that is better than what Fandom has IMO. [00:29:51] [1/2] When you know how to datamine voice lines and sprites. [00:29:51] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1518412668355219556/image.png?ex=6a39d37e&is=6a3881fe&hm=dfb4e88d723c4d8c4eee0aa1b629647d5204c0d0d5a9f177838446c6b72e3b73& [00:30:25] [1/4] Unrelated: [00:30:25] [2/4] I'm compiling a list of wikis with No-AI policies. [00:30:25] [3/4] https://git.average.name/1something/No-AI-Wikis [00:30:26] [4/4] Suggestions of wikis to add? [00:51:32] i actually added it to my calendar lmeow [00:51:57] delt,arune [01:29:07] Fanon wiki here, but I'm currently on making a No-AI policy as well, since everyone's hopping onto the bandwagon (rightfully so). I still have to split it from the main policy page into its own policy page of itself. [01:38:59] [1/2] This made me realize I never formalized an anti-AI policy on one of my wikis oops! [01:38:59] [2/2] -# Tbf the rules on this wiki need a rewrite anyways, I looked and they're mostly just the defaults from way back a year ago when we were on fandom lmaooo [02:06:04] how in the hell do you get this sickass widget [02:43:45] I, too, am curious. [03:02:00] Technically, all wikis on wiki.gg [03:09:28] And in my network of wikis on wiki.gg (see [here](https://support.wiki.gg/wiki/User:JustLeafy#newwikis) and [here](https://support.wiki.gg/wiki/User:JustLeafy#newwikis)), I did put on the main page strictly prohibiting use of genAI, which would uphold whether wiki.gg would have an AI policy or not [03:11:36] [1/3] Furthermore, I do have these two specific wikis having policy pages prohibiting use of genAI: [03:11:36] [2/3] https://vampire.survivors.wiki/w/VSW:AI [03:11:36] [3/3] https://pronounpalace.miraheze.org/wiki/Project:Disclaimer#Stance_on_Generative_AI [03:19:09] My restrictions for LLM usage will equally uphold on every single one of my wikis, regardless of whether they have individual AI policy pages or not [03:28:56] [1/3] Anyways, other wikis that I know have a genAI policy page include the Minecraft and RuneScape wikis: [03:28:57] [2/3] https://meta.runescape.wiki/w/Meta:Generative_AI_policy [03:28:57] [3/3] https://minecraft.wiki/w/Meta:Generative_AI_policy [03:30:44] Also, I'd add Weird Gloop to the list of good wiki farms, if you're counting ABXY and Twelve Worlds as wiki farms as well [05:38:32] I'd really like to take another stab at seeing if we can develop a better/more explicit global policy on this at MH, though there's some extremely strong and conflicting feelings on the matter. Even just getting a more explicit "We reserve the right to block any LLM scraper at any time" vs the implicit tech authority to do so in current policy would be a nice add for clarity. [05:40:41] Point of order - we block them because if they were unblocked we'd be down due to the load [05:40:51] Not just because they are an LLM [05:41:17] Tech reserves the right to block any traffic that will affect the availability of the site [05:41:56] Yep, that's what I meant in what I said [05:43:04] It's end of day for me so my language is starting to get a bit blurry [05:43:25] I think the issue on Miraheze is not the idea of, say, banning or restricting LLMs, it's more so how they can be banned or restricted [05:44:36] some wikis might say "let's do a blanket ban", others might want to just ban ai-gen images or text but not code, for example [05:45:20] Mhmm. Right now it's pretty much up to the local wiki, though we've had some folks cranky that we're not permitting popular (but aggressive) LLMs through. [05:48:11] I think the best choice here would be allowing wikis to opt out? [05:48:23] opt in if anything [05:48:26] we are not letting them loose [05:49:08] if the paid actors and other sloplovers want their wikis to be used for slop, then sure [05:49:38] I read it like opt out from their wikis being scrapped from LLMs [05:49:58] we are not making LLM scrapping a default, never [05:50:07] [1/2] I mean if they really want to let an LLM access their site it's pretty easy. ChatBots in a web interface have heavier restrictions, though, so they are probably complaining about that. [05:50:07] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1518493264813097020/image.png?ex=6a3a1e8e&is=6a38cd0e&hm=34d2f69dbcd1003a7304cb4a97eb452e410ee38badf884f4817297a1d4a79d00& [05:51:18] that's good to hear [05:51:39] AFAIK, wiki.gg and Weird Gloop puts up a blanket ban on LLM scraping too, which is great [05:51:44] not you using a misleading UA 😭 [05:53:39] If it uses curl directly without a UA the request will also go through. Once an LLM gets access to the command line it becomes pretty easy to circumvent restrictions like that. [08:04:04] not gatekeeping here u go [08:04:06] https://chloecinders.com/blog/discord-widgets [08:19:50] [1/2] the main rationale I've seen is llms have become a leading way people actually find stuff, ironic considering how they just regurgitate other people's stuff, but used very slightly responsibly they do at least offer linkbacks that some wikis may value, and there is also some sentiment that better people get information by any means than not at all with a fu [08:19:50] [2/2] ll llm ban [08:42:48] [1/2] why did i laugh [08:42:48] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1518536722659676310/image.png?ex=6a3a4707&is=6a38f587&hm=a703171365d105cee9ca7d47d3827cbbaa14ca9b8eb204c4980416df083c45a7& [08:42:50] would u know of any wikis that mention the developer/coding side of generative AI in their AI policies?? im needing to write an AI policy for deadlock wiki but every example ive seen so far just goes over image and article text generation [08:42:54] "we don't bite" [09:56:04] damn you guys have rules on your wiki [09:57:15] tbh I've used AI for like 10-line JS snippets before. it's kinda useless for Lua and doesn't do much for CSS [09:57:38] AI CSS does more harm than good [09:59:15] yeah not used AI to generate any lines of CSS, but I have used it occasionally just asking about something specific I want to do. although I can't actually remember it doing anything other than wasting time [10:28:46] the million cold colors of doom and despair [11:11:05] https://forsaken.wiki [11:11:44] https://forsaken.wiki/Forsaken_Wiki:Policy/Generative_AI [11:11:57] Skye bites [11:12:06] _stay clear_ [11:12:17] ^ [11:13:16] are we gatekeeping eating now??? [11:17:32] gatekeep gaslight girlboss 💅 [11:21:13] you got the order wrong [11:35:21] theres an em dash in ur gen ai policy [11:35:51] 2 of them on the copyrights page [11:35:53] funniest shit ever [11:59:22] One of the main things about LLMs thag piss me off is vilifying the em dash [11:59:33] It’s a very useful semantic tool [12:00:38] Nah, not any specific wiki [12:01:46] Even Weird Gloop's AI policy seems ambiguous in that regard from what I know [12:02:53] I know your wiki is independent, but wiki.gg does allow for AI-generated code, as long as it is disclosed [12:03:23] my horrifically long punctuationless mess would like to disagree [12:05:27] BAHAHAHA [12:05:28] Ngl, I personally don't feel too bad if it means every website gets equal treatment in terms of being scraped by LLMs for AI slop overviews [12:06:12] I’ve had to explicitly state in class essays I write “yes there is an em dash I know it’s an LLM sign I used none of ts I just like em dash check the history” but in a vacuum I am allergic to periods [12:06:36] What I mean is that if LLMs only did it for specific wikis, then I would be angered, since it would feel targeted to harm the traffic of the wikis. But if it did it for every site without exception, I wouldn't feel as bad, since it doesn't feel targeted at least [12:06:53] That's not to say it's good or anything, but still [12:07:20] this is more or less the stance we are going for so ill look at wikigg's, thanks [12:26:56] Poupedia bans AI content [12:27:30] what is that? [12:27:49] https://poupedia.com/Poupedia:Code_of_Conduct [12:28:16] On the Articles section [12:48:34] I didn't memorize ALT+0151 as a kid only for em dashes to later become a hallmark of AI slop 😒 [12:50:34] I have a draft of an anti-AI policy somewhere if you're still interested; right now we only have a line about it on our copyrights page [13:49:43] [1/3] That isn't sufficient for my list, because it still allows AI generated content as long as you call the content "code." [13:49:43] [2/3] > It is allowed to use AI tools to assist in the creation of illustrated diagrams, code, and text. For example, the following are all allowed: [13:49:44] [3/3] > Using AI to compose a Lua function for you, which you then test thoroughly before deploying [13:50:55] Also thanks for the suggestions y'all. [13:51:36] I see, that's fair [14:04:37] Professional writing actually use em dashes hence the AI learns to use rather than using minus symbol. [14:29:40] My wiki bans AI [14:40:28] I think it's fine for LLM to scrape web pages but the actual LLM when you use search it's so crap it has memory loss and hallunicate lmao [14:41:58] I mean the AI overview on Google it's absolute trash tier [14:43:30] Your locally deployed AI is way better than that fake AI [15:01:05] Yes, I know [15:01:17] That's why I was complaining [16:15:10] i always switch back to chinese ime to input two em dashes (——) and backspace to get one em dash when writing in english [18:06:09] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKrXCmPp56k ...how much of my data gets tracked now... [18:09:50] i suppose that's why you should go a few hours away before posting something online...this shit is pretty interesting... [19:29:40] well the steam machine dropped about an hour ago [19:30:02] they dont directly say that steamOS is ready for every desktop yet [19:30:18] > ...We are working on broadening support, and with the recent updates to Steam and SteamOS 3.8, compatibility with other AMD powered PCs (handhelds and desktops) has been improved. [19:32:06] [1/2] steam machine price and specs for those curious and lazy enough not to go check themselves [19:32:07] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615786602454581249/1518700127043326042/image.png?ex=6a3adf36&is=6a398db6&hm=b8fec6540182ceb54ca894ecc92c49dbdb2820d68ebeddfb2d6b4f789cdfc4cc& [19:35:12] ai killed the steam machine in its cradle [19:52:16] A number of the wikis listed (including English Wikipedia, AVID, and Nookipedia, among others) only explicitly prohibit AI content for articles, and don't mention or prohibit in other areas such as code. I think the criteria or list need to be revisited, or maybe worth charting what sort of content each wiki restricts. [19:57:29] Hi Kayvan [19:57:50] Huwwo a:wave: [19:59:21] and perhaps what kind of code count as AI-generated [20:01:31] as in like ai finding and debugging something small like a syntax error in a template/wikitext vs a whole js script that one would have no idea of [20:02:01] I have a 2.5k GBP rig - high up GPU, i9 CPU, 64 GB RAM [21:18:14] [1/2] https://www.fandom.com/utilities [21:18:14] [2/2] Fandom resorting to AI slop as usual [21:32:25] so they barely let you write your own js then they add slop without consulting you [21:33:23] yes [22:29:47] CSS hard [22:29:58] Anyone know any good looking timeless wikis? [22:35:28] [22:35:51] Knew the first result was going to be a Roblox wiki lol [22:36:25] fisch wiki uses timeless too. I have permanent safemode enabled on fisch wiki [22:36:41] battle cats wiki has styling for timeless [22:37:30] might be a bit too customised, relies too much on mouse movement [22:38:27] actually how could I forget