[15:27:41] I’m wondering how complex it would be to make our own version of https://community.fandom.com/wiki/Help:Theme_Designer [15:27:51] Coding wise [15:33:40] Sounds doable [15:34:08] I think recreating Discussions would be better though because you already have a shitter ThemeDesigner by configuring the Cosmos skin [15:35:38] I don't think recreating Discussions would be hard and I am probably going to do it myself it'd just be time consuming + I'm not 100% sure if it should also implement comments and message walls and if so if that would conflict with SocialProfile (which it should probably support for profile images) and other extensions [15:35:52] Not everyone wants to use cosmos [15:35:58] Oh fair [15:36:09] But most themes have color config I think [15:36:12] Plus I have no idea where to start with discussion [15:36:18] However Cosmos is like the Fandom skin [15:36:18] Not to my knowledge [15:36:22] Oh [15:36:49] Just use css rn [15:37:09] Especially for complex stuff [15:37:16] Take PTW [15:39:40] not everyone ant discussions too [15:39:55] For a theme designer I may have like a very basic idea of how it may work [15:39:59] Ik but all the Fandom communities I know of like Discussions [15:40:10] But I’m not experienced in mediawiki extensions yet [15:41:09] they are nightmare to moderate and depending on community can become a trash dumb of images [15:41:22] Oh I know that [15:41:34] That doesn't mean people don't like them [15:41:35] and develop into toxic pits [15:41:44] Well not necessarily [15:41:49] Not any more than a usual forum [15:41:49] yeah, better use something else, like discrod [15:41:53] honestly [15:41:54] Bruh [15:42:01] Discord serves a completely different purpose [15:42:07] discussions [15:42:10] man [15:42:13] to discuss [15:42:18] Yeah but it's not formatted in the same way [15:42:33] I like the Fandom discussions /shrug [15:44:02] It’s personal preference [15:44:09] well I hang w/ migrated community which had absolute worse discussion experience and the bunch which decided to stay on fandom - only for discussion, went down further into toxicity [15:44:19] That's the point [15:44:27] Some people enjoy it [15:44:31] Some just find it toxic [15:44:32] do they want to bring this into miraheze? absolutely not [15:45:07] [1/2] That's why I want to make an extension, not a MediaWiki feature [15:45:07] [2/2] They shouldn't enable extensions that don't work for their communities [15:45:58] If it’s not a core part of making a wiki mediawiki won’t include it in core [15:46:10] yeah ik [15:47:41] aight, but I feel like you don't need to push a wiki closer to social media [15:49:44] correct me if ai wrong, but files still stay in db after deletion, including old revisions? [15:50:28] Yeah I know but some people just discuss their wiki's topic, it's not really detracting from the wiki content or editing, just makes people like using the wiki more [15:50:32] I think so [15:50:34] But [15:50:49] You can delete the files if you have access to the wiki storage [15:50:51] talk pages? [15:50:55] at least if it was deleted using ManageWiki stuff- [15:51:02] Doesn't work in the same way [15:51:15] Yup [15:51:24] Even oversighted [15:51:48] Mediawiki shits throws a tantrum when you permanently delete stuff like db rows or files [15:51:48] [1/2] Like this is on the HSR wiki, it doesn't really fit on talk pages or Discord [15:51:48] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1006789349498699827/1211339773751459920/Screenshot_20240225-075112.png?ex=65edd713&is=65db6213&hm=f7412c026c73f8f5607bae4574367ec8a104b9005ebc103c8ec99b158f21fc70& [15:51:51] I misread lol [15:51:56] but vanished from the db level then :skull_c: [15:51:57] The only way is for SRE to manually delete [15:52:00] Oh [15:52:48] Oversighted just means that it won’t be shown to anyone through the web or api other then a oversighter [15:53:01] Side note do y’all say oversight or suppression? [15:53:11] ah no, I mean if the wiki is deleted from db level- [15:53:16] Oh [15:53:28] In that case I imagine heheh files would likely [15:53:32] But actually not sure [15:53:40] that's close to threads in discord tho [15:53:43] Well it'd still be possible to leave the files in place but I don't think you would [15:53:56] @cosmicalpha do hard deleted wikis have their files also deleted? [15:58:58] [1/4] Not exactly because Discord lists every open post in order of creation, Discussions mostly focuses on new posts and slightly prioritizes more liked ones, and the formatting works differently from Discord posts, and Discord doesn't support polls, and it's possible for moderators to remove but later restore a post and it's possible fof mode [15:58:58] [2/4] rators to edit a post and you can see edit history, probably other features exist but I'm not an active Fandom user [15:58:58] [3/4] I think it works a lot more like Reddit than Discord but people aren't really wanting to make a subreddit just to discuss their wiki [15:58:58] [4/4] Also yes obviously, Discussions is not really what wikis should be for and wikis aren't social media platforms, but as it stands that's just what a lot of Fandom users do and iirc Agent Isai said some people decided against moving from Fandom entirely because they couldn't get Discussions, message walls, etc. anywhere else [15:59:29] Discord has a bajillion poll bots [15:59:43] There’s even evidence they are working on making it a native feature [15:59:45] Also [15:59:47] Reactions [15:59:50] reactions [15:59:58] more funky tbh [15:59:58] You can't prioritize posts by reactions [16:00:35] Anything is possible with enough bs [16:00:42] But those other points are valid [16:01:27] Also another think I thought up, after UCP I think everything was mad at Fandom so if everyone could have just up and left I think they would have, but both then and now there's never really been anything that has the same features as Fandom [16:01:53] Also I do understand where you're coming from about why Discussions isn't what wikis are for [16:04:05] [1/2] wikis need editors [16:04:05] [2/2] what I saw on fandom is readers flocking to discussions and stopping giving a heck about the wiki, while the amount of editors stay same, but they should also moderate discussions [16:04:34] What do you think are the main features fandom has that would be beneficial for other farms to add? [16:04:48] Curious [16:05:05] default templates [16:05:07] Interesting [16:05:22] Definitely [16:05:23] it was obvious long time ago [16:05:45] Seems like something also not hard to add [16:05:53] I know there have been discussions [16:05:55] dev wiki [16:06:14] I can’t recall why they’ve been shot down, I mean I think they were [16:06:23] [1/5] Probably: [16:06:23] [2/5] - Theme editor [16:06:24] [3/5] - The scripts and styles on dev.fandom.com [16:06:24] [4/5] - The templates on templates.fandom.com and also the default templates [16:06:24] [5/5] - Discussions [16:06:36] I think because MH wants to stick to normal MediaWiki as much as possible [16:06:38] message wall [16:06:47] Oh yeah definitely [16:06:52] I grouped that under Discussions [16:06:59] I like talk pages but yeah [16:07:28] Talk pages are not everyone's cup of tea, I'm fine with them but they're a bit annoying [16:07:46] If I find a point in my irl life where I have lots of free time I may(no promises or commitments) try and start learning extensions to make a theme thing [16:08:16] All I can guarantee if I make it is that it won’t be great lmao [16:08:49] In the Fandom wikis I've been on I've seen a lot of people who just comment on every page and talk in Discussions but not edit and also people who do that plus editing, never seen anyone who doesn't comment at least sometimes, save for the very active and busy admins who are always online doing something [16:09:12] https://issue-tracker.miraheze.org/T11901 for default loadouts such as templates btw. [16:09:31] I haven't visited a lot of Fandom wikis though [16:09:53] Cool [16:10:07] Ah I see [16:10:25] Well if they never comment, you wouldn’t see them would you? [16:10:46] No I see the ones who never comment but do edit doing editing [16:11:06] The ones who never do anything are in almost all platforms the majority of the users though [16:11:44] Unfortunately [16:11:55] Yea [16:13:09] on a side note, SKL created a trello roadmap for the wiki and folks in discord liked it so much, it actually kicked some into editing [16:15:01] Wow [16:16:18] thinking about creating one for my wiki, when the game comes out [16:21:59] Every trello we've tried doing has become dramatically outdated in a couple weeks, not sure I would recommend haha. Not easy to always remember managing it when the wiki is also in significant need of constant updating. It does give direction when you're starting though, that helps a lot. [16:22:58] it's more about fixing up the old stuff than actually follow update of wiki's subject [16:23:20] like, the wiki has improved a lot since migration, but there's still a lot of work [16:23:48] standardisation, adding missing things, fact checking [16:38:54] [1/4] Yeah you just need to be careful so that what gets fixed on the wiki is also marked as fixed on the trello, it's very easy to get caught up in wiki editing and let the trello slowly grow into an unreliable list of unmarked already-solved tasks. [16:38:55] [2/4] Unless you make it public (but from what I've heard it's paywalled) only invited people can update it, which both means that you have to manage invitations, and that some people who inevitably won't have or make an account will complete tasks without being able to mark them as completed so others have to do it for them. It's just a lot of work added on top of actual wiki edit [16:38:55] [3/4] ing. [16:38:55] [4/4] On the other hand if you find a good workflow for it we might be interested in hearing about it hehe. [18:36:30] Yes they do [18:37:36] so basically if the wiki was deleted in the db level then in the worst senario: :skull_c: [18:37:39] gucci [18:38:18] still waiting for my request to be done loll [18:38:32] going to sleep now, it's 1.40 AM [18:39:29] I don’t remember when the last hard deleted run was [18:39:31] a while ago [18:39:39] Wikis are never automatically hard deleted just FYI, that has to be done manually but if CW deleted it and the manual script is ran to do it then yeah it would be bad [18:39:50] It was started a couple months ago but never finished [18:40:01] Due to issues [18:41:05] maybe if you’re lucking the wayback mac could have saved some [18:41:46] No wikis that weren't supposed to be were actually dropped IIRC [18:42:02] @bluemoon0332 @rhinosf1 https://issue-tracker.miraheze.org/T11902 any thoughts on how to implement that into the script? I found the command but not sure how to properly make it work with auto renewals... [18:54:38] You want the salt adding to mirahezerenewssl? [18:54:43] We can do that [18:55:06] Me and @reception123 spent a day debugging salt and python [18:55:16] Yes, if it can somehow detect what acme challenge it needs to add. [18:55:44] What's the output of LE [18:55:55] If it's easily parseable, it should be possible [18:59:03] Yeah but the issue is it'd need it before it displays, as it needs to add acme before final renewal is processed, using --manual-auth-hook in certbot may make it possible. [19:04:25] @rhinosf1 seems like if you use --manual-auth-hook pointing to a python script `os.getenv('CERTBOT_VALIDATION')` would contain ACME challenge `os.getenv('CERTBOT_DOMAIN')` can get domain accordinf to some examples of things like namecheap hook that uses it... like [19:05:00] That's cool [19:05:06] We can use that easy [19:05:55] i n t e r e s t i n g [19:11:29] looks like RhinosF1 figured this one already [19:12:24] Mostly [20:07:14] @bluemoon0332 mind giving https://github.com/miraheze/MirahezeMagic/pull/472 a review if you have time? [20:21:35] I'll take a look at it later, I'm logging off [20:44:30] <.labster, replying to theoneandonlylegroom> Which default templates, by the way.? I think it would be reasonable to provide export packages on dev as a way to quickly get good templates. Or maybe as part of wiki creation? [20:45:52] I suggest to part of Dev Wiki - admin would be able to pick which ones he need and will be able to directly import from Dev Wiki w/o messing w/ xml (on Special:Import) [20:46:21] <.labster> Just like a special page with checkboxes or something? [20:47:18] Special:Import alsready has additional part where 6 wikis can be choosen as source - 3 from Miraheze, inclusing Dev, and 3 from Wikimedia [20:47:34] it just grabs pages directly [20:48:17] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1006789349498699827/1211414389668716565/2024-02-25_23_48_14.png?ex=65ee1c91&is=65dba791&hm=ed8dbc76082f152c1522f954c1425169da8b609554534fee102f80ef4cc350b1& [20:48:26] <.labster> I guess you could set a cookie from a redirect to dev, and then have a "shopping cart" gadget on dev, and finally "buy" your wikis to import from dev [20:48:55] that's neat actually [20:50:20] [1/2] as for which templates - the usual article management ones (stub, delete, etc), licenses, documentation (simple) and infoboxes ofc, in PI [20:50:21] [2/2] need to make a list of most popular infoboxes tho, like country or elections often get drabbed from WP [20:50:32] <.labster> Hmmm if I could prepopulate Special:Import based on URL params it would actually be easy... not sure I could cross-site POST. [20:50:33] and remake in PI [20:51:43] also easy navbox module from dev fandom [20:52:51] it's really a life savet [20:53:35] If it’s not possible in mediawiki core, could we maybe add the functionality ib MirahezeMagic? [20:54:33] <.labster> Everything is possible with more programming, I'm just trying to figure out how easy it is and what I'd have to support [20:55:21] I like your wise words funny chair man [23:44:05] another invalid extension request [23:44:17] [[phab:T11904 [23:44:25] [[phab:T11904]] [23:44:26]