[03:04:22] <.imamy.> (( ⁠volunteering - Questions/advice, all things relating to volunteering. Feel free to ask questions, none are bad. Please stay strictly on-topic. )) [03:04:30] <.imamy.> Hi everyone [03:30:47] <.imamy.> [1/3] Lately I feel pressured to go to Discord or IRC ... I'm unlikely to be frequent even if I feel pressured . I tend to talk where I work and I really don't do anything here . [03:30:47] <.imamy.> [2/3] I am talking now because I have started a hard break from Meta . I don't know what that means yet except that I can't take a hard break from Miraheze because I follow other wikis . The last time I took a long break, after the wikis closed, they couldn't be reopened ... so I know I have to be around else they all close ... [03:30:47] <.imamy.> [3/3] When I'm here, I check for mentions but I've never found any so I need to see pings otherwise I get discouraged ... [03:49:02] @wikitideharej are we treating the commons RFC as local or global? [03:49:25] if its global, than policy would require that it remain open until friday [03:51:22] <.imamy.> [1/3] @rhinosf1 I'm sorry that I never responded to your message request ... I found the request after your post at the Help Desk ... I decided not to open the message ... but I did look for mention here and did not find one . I'm really not good with social media. I still have no idea what you wrote to me but just wanted to say thank you for reaching out . It's just that I would have li [03:51:23] <.imamy.> [2/3] ked to get a heads up . and I still don't know if I can make myself open the message. That help desk message took me by surprise in a very bad way. Once I found the message request, I probably should have come to this channel to talk, but none of the channels feel like the right channel . [03:51:23] <.imamy.> [3/3] See even now ... I see other people talking and it feels weird to keep talking about stuff like feelings . I'm always in a state of interrupting something so that's another reason I prefer to talk where I work ... Everything is side by side . Very little chance of going off topic . [03:51:59] MacFan4000: Future of Miraheze Commons is being treated as global since it affects other wikis' ability to use Commons [03:52:47] ok, so then it will need to remain open until this friday as per RFC policy (which states that it must be open 14 days) [03:58:38] MacFan4000: but it looks like it's been open since last year? https://commons.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_Comment/Adopting_two_policies_as_official [03:59:09] oh, I misunderstood what you were referring to [04:00:04] yeah, that's the RfC I'm asking about. [04:03:28] closed it as having no consensus [04:04:35] Thank you! [04:34:24] <.imamy., replying to wikitideharej> [1/3] @wikitideharej I found the Discord announcement that you posted regarding Future of Miraheze Commons RfC ... [04:34:24] <.imamy., replying to wikitideharej> [2/3] Could you post a very short message that is translated into multiple languages? I don't know if that is possible or permissible. [04:34:25] <.imamy., replying to wikitideharej> [3/3] . Anyhow, that's what popped up in my mind when I read it. [04:34:31] <.imamy.> Have a good night [05:31:47] I don't think RfC needs to be translated, although we can put the translation tag for the announcement regarding the accepted proposal [06:30:27] I don't think we have translated an RfC at any point in the last 11 years [06:30:50] Our policies are in English by default and developed in English [08:48:26] yeah, i'm pretty sure of that too as i don't believe i can even translate it [08:48:34] damn i lose all my motivation fast lol [12:00:14] if it was an existential sitenotice we could probably have that translated [12:01:04] commons is in a funny space where it is technically very central however the active utilization and concern for it is quite marginal, and the most radical change to it that would affect everyone (outright deletion) is set back into the realm of being virtually impossible [14:29:16] There’s also the practical matter that in order for me to write something in multiple languages I would first need to know multiple languages [14:29:53] Wikimedia more or less has volunteer translators on demand. I don’t think Miraheze is so lucky. They exist but there are fewer of them [15:00:05] it would be trickle in volunteer translations by precedent, which is of fairly limited use for that reason [15:00:28] translation has long been a struggle on miraheze given the limited pool and the desire to avoid machine translation before AI took over that market too [15:02:22] [1/2] it also tends to be very hard to audit that pool and the intersect of senior volunteers who understand and apply policy, in this case the necessary phrasing for a global notice, with the people who are typically willing to translate, is murkier than we like with little time to commit to auditing translations specifically, along with a couple other common litigations like the way tran [15:02:22] [2/2] slation stuff greatly complicates anything it touches [15:23:28] where translation is not well maintained sometimes prepending `special:mylanguage/` to links can be counterproductive. it's still alright if it goes to english bc it's not available in “my language”. but some occasions it brings me to a page with outdated, incomplete translation so i have to click once more to go to the english page [15:24:33] that would be something to review in detail to see if the current arrangements with translation still work [17:30:09] I’ve always wondered about the chicken and egg problem of hiring a translator when you can’t verify their work. This actually affected the Wikimedia Foundation which put out a Chinese translation of a statement that was complete nonsense. [18:03:50] Agreed. Translations are a challenge, especially on official Foundation statements, policies, and the like. We do put a template {{note}} at the top of such translated pages, indicating the English version takes precedence over the translated versions. But yeah, that is just a bare minimum in terms of being a potential liability waiver. It doesn't mean that nonsense may exist. [18:04:46] The alternative to translations could just be ditch them entirely and allow users to use in-browser functionality that translates English documents into their own language themselves [18:07:26] [1/2] It doesn't always select the correct word if there are two that happen to use the same spelling in English though, so sometimes that's also entirely capable of coming out with nonsense. [18:07:26] [2/2] That said, I've had a human translator do the same on a project elsewhere, so using people doesn't necessity help with that anyway. [18:11:03] Good points too. [19:02:39] reminds me of something like a police department hiring a sign language interpreter who didn't actually know sign language and just made it all up [19:16:13] Yeah, the double-edged sword of translation is that you kind of need someone you trust to verify the translation is accurate for you. That's actually how we handle it on our wiki, where we've built up a group of translators able to verify each other's work, though of course that's not easy to do if you haven't built up that kind of community. [19:19:43] Yup. [19:24:57] This also happened at Nelson Mandela’s funeral. Though he wasn’t hired, he just showed up at no one’s behest to do fake sign language [19:31:24] given the limited bandwidth to cultivate a true translator base I've been in favor of auto translate to have a broad functioning baseline of okay instead of our highly inconsistent baseline of some great, some hopelessly obsolete, everything in between [19:31:43] which would be optimal if said auto translate solution could then be refined on demand