[00:43:52] oh yea i was gonna put a last call out lol [00:45:28] brb [00:47:33] I posted previously on the talk page that, even if keeping the RfC open longer doesn't materially affect the outcome, it may be a good way to hear from people we might not otherwise [01:05:00] Why "unfortunately"? If there is something annoying that would rather change in the bot I can. I don't quite understand what the issue is here though. [01:07:13] @cosmicalpha: oh, I agree with you. I personally don't mind being pinged on both platforms. I just ignore them on the other one if I've already 'seen' them. Some people don't like it, though [01:10:00] [1/2] The reason it pings with :, and it used to with , also but I removed that because it had a lot of false positives is to replicate what an IRC ping does, just for discord. Like if I do dmehus: ping, it pings, so when you do doug: ping it pings via Discord also because that is the Discord username. That was the idea anyways, to make native IRC pinging as close a [01:10:00] [2/2] s possible for cross platform pinging without causing to many false positives that just pinging by typing username would cause. [01:12:19] @cosmicalpha: ah, that makes sense. thanks for the explanation :) [01:12:57] You also intentionally can't role ping from IRC though as there isn't really a way to do permission management, so I figured it was best to leave out, otherwise you rely on the permissions the bot has for what pings can be done so I figured that was to risky. [01:14:54] @cosmicalpha: oh, that sucks re: role pings. Can I test to confirm that? [01:15:48] Feel free. It won't work (I think) unless you use the ID then it might but only if the bot has access. It is something I may still consider but it is an intentionally missing feature for now. [01:16:34] It would be nice for when, say, I need to alert @cvt to something in the CVT channel [01:16:40] ^ cvt: ignore the above [01:16:53] It probably has quite a bit of usefulness if the feature is officially added I guess though. [01:16:54] hmph [01:17:09] I will consider it. [01:17:25] Oh, yeah, weird. It didn't come through. Is that a RelayBot issue, a Discord issue, or a CVTbot issue? [01:17:48] It is a relay bot thing. Not really an issue since it is intentional though. [01:18:23] Yeah, we've got pretty active Discord moderators that can kickban users pretty quickly if it's misused [01:18:46] Discord moderators, huh? [01:19:00] yeah [01:19:01] The issue is lower moderation on the IRC time that kinda takes a little bit longer to handle sometimes. [01:19:13] Discord moderators alone couldn't moderate that. [01:19:21] How does moderation work on IRC, anyway? [01:19:22] true [01:19:26] Without muting the bot itself [01:19:28] I mean, IRC is a lot simpler so [01:20:01] yeah [01:20:29] I think the + next to some usernames has something to do with it, right? [01:20:39] I have been considering some slash commands that discord side can use to limit things like this like `/discord-mute ` [01:21:32] But I don't want to complicate the very simple code base. [01:21:53] It didn't take me that long to write this relay bot. Like probably less than a week or so. [01:24:24] voiced users [01:25:03] Voiced or Opped isn't it? [01:25:07] for GA+ [01:25:13] or something like that [01:25:18] in the CVT feed channels [01:25:38] I think so [01:25:43] Check what I am in cvt [01:26:01] If I’m still connected via Claire’s bouncer [01:26:06] nope [01:26:11] Hm [01:26:16] Opped is necessary for moderation all voiced typically have the permission to op themselves. [01:26:22] I’ll fix my IRC setup eventually [01:26:32] And then voiced is...? [01:26:57] Voiced has no special permissions by itself other than to show who typically might have moderation access. [01:27:02] Should probably go ask someone for op and such for on IRC w/ stewardship [01:27:20] Unless the channel is restricted so only voiced users can speak [01:27:43] We should just unify platform moderators tbh. That is my preference, so mods on discord have op permissions on IRC. [01:28:09] I’d agree w/ that [01:29:19] Do you know if RelayBot supports relaying to a thread post? [01:29:50] If DC mods will be IRC mods, maybe IRC users should be able to participate in elections [01:29:55] but that seems messy [01:29:58] Yeah [01:30:00] It doesn't yet. I will add that soon. [01:30:03] Could just be on wiki [01:30:17] And also the fact IRC is a lot easier to join [01:30:19] since also normal users can’t see previous votes [01:30:21] When I first made the bot, threads did not exist. [01:30:28] And spam [01:30:55] oh, that sounds interesting [01:31:03] true [01:31:26] For cross platform onwiki makes sense but I like regular discord users being able to see elections [01:32:05] [1/2] I could expand the bot significantly to make it necessary to authenticate to a wiki account to relay certain messages, or join certain channels, the bot auto kicking if not authenticated also. In the same way permission based systems works on Discord for things like election to require an authenticated wiki account and what not. Though this may end up being a [01:32:06] [2/2] different bot entirely. [01:33:07] The issue is some users on Discord don't use IRC and vice versa, so I'd like having separate channel operators / moderators on both platforms, but that being said, I can see a use case for Discord moderators being made Global ChanOps on IRC. But we would still want to have individual channel operators as well [01:33:10] We should brainstorm possible options, decide what’s technically possible/feasible, then let it go to RfC [01:33:34] ahem [01:33:37] I like that idea [01:33:42] hey, all ops on miraheze irc, say hi! [01:33:57] Most is technically possible when time permits. It is more of a time commitment issue then what is possible tbh. [01:34:18] RfC is necessary though yes. [01:34:25] And now we wait and see if MacFan is alone and MacFan alone [01:34:43] I really should connect to IRC again lol [01:35:03] I think I am also still a Group Contact there as well but I rarely connect now lol [01:36:06] I will need to connect again especially if I work on the bot more again lol [01:37:32] I haven't been on IRC since last year [01:37:42] Just finally sort of faded out of my life after it was a part of it since 2001 [01:37:51] Man, I use IRC a lot [01:48:18] More than Discord? [01:48:28] Yes [01:48:32] ah, nice :) [01:48:44] yes, it is simpler when you figure out all the commands [01:49:40] It's also so convenient. [01:49:40] I can have IRC open on my school laptop while patrolling miraheze [01:49:41] and I can take it at school so I have better availability [01:50:25] "Crystalite why don't you have your homework [01:50:25] Sorry teacher duty calls" [01:50:38] And then I get a detention /j [01:50:46] lol [01:50:57] jokes aside don't worry guys I would never sacrifice my education for miraheze [01:51:03] heh schools haven't blocked IRC I guess [01:51:28] It's weird, they've blocked the libera chat website but not the actual chat platform [01:51:32] So like [01:51:44] That's like blocking the guides for games, but leaving the games unblocked [01:51:58] I mean cough cough what video games on my school computer [01:52:00] I would never [01:53:01] The only videogame I need is Miraheze [01:53:35] heh [02:05:18] @pixldev you are connect to IRC but, for permissions you need to also be authenticated with NickServ (you aren't currently) [02:05:23] connected* [02:06:49] re the commons RFC, when it does get closed, I'll put on my bureaucrat and do the permissions changes [02:07:04] s/bureaucrat/bureaucrat hat [02:10:00] Thank you for that [02:10:26] Hey harej [02:10:29] was wondering [02:10:49] How are you planning to make communities official [02:11:38] Close to one year now, isn't it? [02:12:55] also with IRC moderation, there is no group ping for ops, but for some of us (me included) if you directly ping, we can be around to deal with it [02:13:53] yeah [02:14:38] and MacFan4000 is usually the most available IRC operator [02:18:44] Crystalite13: there is a draft rfc on miraheze projects which includes communities [02:34:42] do i not have my cloak on [02:35:17] nope [02:35:20] i see 8a023a9e4a@sharkgirl.ing [02:36:37] lmfao [02:36:40] Crystalite13: https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_Comment/Miraheze_projects [02:36:54] Let me go see about logging back in [02:37:05] I don't have an IRC client on this laptop [02:37:07] hm [02:37:11] any recommendations for winodws [02:37:47] I've always used IRC cloud (web based) [02:39:53] ill just use libera's web one for now [02:40:11] wait no i have to connect to the bouncer directly [02:41:49] fwiw your nick is currently underscored as well (PixDeVl_) [02:43:53] interesting [02:44:02] my real nick is reserved so [02:44:17] IRCCloud has a free option, but I pay $50 USD/year to always be connected [02:44:42] okay im gonna put a reminder and do this another day, im really tired and have been pushing the staying up late too far and was not fully operational today [02:57:03] i use hexchat [02:58:38] think that may have been what i used on my last windows [02:59:07] actually apparently hexchat is unmaintained now (since early 2024 apparently) 🤔 just goes to show how i haven't used irc lately [02:59:28] there's a fork called zoitechat tho [03:00:40] huh [06:13:16] Teamspeak [12:43:48] there's stuff like the lounge I've looked at but I'm not really interested in making containers etc to run a chat client [14:24:05] [1/20] ### 🇺🇸 Licensed U.S. CPA | Accounting, Tax & Financial Services [14:24:05] [2/20] Hello everyone! 👋 [14:24:06] [3/20] I’m a licensed U.S. CPA providing professional accounting, tax, financial reporting, and business advisory support to entrepreneurs, startups, e-commerce businesses, corporations, LLCs, and other organizations. 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[14:24:12] [18/20] If you're a business owner, founder, entrepreneur, or individual who currently needs help with an accounting, tax, financial statement, bookkeeping, CPA letter, or related matter, feel free to reply here or message me privately. [14:24:12] [19/20] I'm happy to discuss the situation first and determine whether I’m the right professional for the engagement. [14:24:13] [20/20] Licensed U.S. CPA | Professional • Confidential • Client-Focused [14:28:07] @Discord Moderators: ^ [15:58:11] Yeah... sounds interesting. Lots of cool things now need to be run in a Docker container heh :p [16:17:41] I'm kind of resisting all that until I can reliably do podmon based stuff [22:48:55] I've noticed people tend to upload files to Commons, and then use it on their wiki and that's it. Is there a reason someone might upload to Commons instead of their own wiki? [22:49:50] Is there documentation somewhere encouraging this? We might need to update it if we restrict uploads to select people. [22:50:27] In one case, a series of files that are full-on copyrighted, authorized for use on a single Miraheze wiki. I would get uploading files to Commons if you wanted to give back to the Commons, but this is a case where that wouldn't even make sense. [22:50:31] private wikis is one reason [22:50:47] Are private wikis not allowed to have their own files? [22:50:53] @wikitideharej: Infoboxes and userboxes on Loginwiki, or their global user page on Loginwiki are the three big ones. [22:51:03] Doesn't uploading files publicly defeat the purpose of having a private wiki? [22:51:15] Private wikis can have their own files, afaik. You just have to whitelist them on any whitelisted pages [22:51:19] That too. [22:51:21] they are but they won't work if you're logged out unless there's some weird config for the whitelist [22:51:46] people use private wikis for all sorts of things that they aren't meant for [22:52:42] The other reason might be because of multi-wiki or interlanguage wikis, i.e., a group of wikis. There does exist some shared DB config they can do, but some prefer Commons [22:53:29] is one such example [22:53:48] [1/2] Isn't it that private wiki images are served differently (imgauth.php or something? can't remember) so anything you want to be viewed publically needs a static.wikitide address which can't be got unless you upload either to commons or another wiki and then use the cross-wiki file thing? [22:53:48] [2/2] I thought I read a conversation about that, but I may have misunderstood. [22:54:25] I also take it Login Wiki not allowing uploads is a deliberate policy choice (as opposed to a functionally technical one) that won't be revisited [22:54:34] > In one case, a series of files that are full-on copyrighted, authorized for use on a single Miraheze wiki. I would get uploading files to Commons if you wanted to give back to the Commons, but this is a case where that wouldn't even make sense. [22:54:34] I will say, though, that with regular and more active Commons enforcement, we can help to track this going forward with tracking categories and GlobalUsage, as GlobalUsage updates much more frequently with the JobQueue changes I think [22:54:45] unless you put `.*` on the read whitelist [22:55:07] or probably other paths too [22:55:24] > I also take it Login Wiki not allowing uploads is a deliberate policy choice (as opposed to a functionally technical one) that won't be revisited [22:55:24] Not really, actually. There was no policy basis. Stewards and/or Tech Team at the time were just tired of out of scope file uploads being uploaded to Loginwiki, but we could revisit this certainly [22:55:43] I still have no clue why tf this wiki is private when they put `.*` on the whitelist [22:55:57] It would be good if we can record somewhere this list of reasons why someone might upload to MH Commons that aren't multi-wiki use (IMO the strongest use case for it) or "for the hell of it" [22:57:00] some people also upload to commons instead of meta because their images got deleted for being out of scope [22:57:16] Oh, interesting. Presumably then it's people who don't realise they can do that? [22:57:44] or sometimes it's uploaded to commons with the intent of being used in multiple places but it only ever gets used in one place [22:57:53] > https://removededm.com/Special:Log [22:57:53] @thewwrnerdguy: interesting wiki. You have a good memory for interesting, niche wikis we host. What's what one, are they cataloguing unlisted YouTube music videos? [22:58:43] > It would be good if we can record somewhere this list of reasons why someone might upload to MH Commons that aren't multi-wiki use (IMO the strongest use case for it) or "for the hell of it" [22:58:43] Good idea. Do you mind if I note these somewhere on Commons, perhaps on the deletion policy draft? [23:00:15] well I remember this one because I was looking at cloudflare analytics a while ago and found a non-insignificant amount of miraheze bandwidth was because of public wikis using img_auth.php in css/managewiki. So I went on a mission to destroy them all. that was when I found out the weird setup of removededm, which is now the #1 wiki for img_auth.php requests [23:01:06] > well I remember this one because I was looking at cloudflare analytics a while ago and found a non-insignificant amount of miraheze bandwidth was because of public wikis using img_auth.php in css/managewiki. So I went on a mission to destroy them all. that was when I found out the weird setup of removededm, which is now the #1 wiki for img_auth.php requests [23:01:07] ah, interesting. I also noticed that my userpage isn't even hyperlinked in the top nav menu... odd choice [23:09:04] [1/2] What I mainly have in mind is that once we create the new uploader role, people will have to proactively ask permission and demonstrate they need to upload to commons specifically, and it would be good to know what valid reasons include. I'm actually not inclined to delete files that technically don't fit so long as there isn't some other reason to delete li [23:09:04] [2/2] ke copyright infringement. [23:10:09] @wikitideharej: ah, sounds good. So the reasons will mainly be used for the the Commons' scope page then, essentially [23:10:28] Documentation for the uploader role, a role that technically doesn't exist yet [23:10:41] ah, yeah, gotcha [23:11:18] and yes, I'm of a similar view, unless we receive a valid request to remove the infringing content, it's fine to let it remain [23:12:27] I was chatting with Raidarr, though, about putting in a place a local Commons wiki take down request form, which gets sent to local administrators/bureaucrats and copied to Stewards, so the community has a chance to action before it gets to the Trust and Safety legal level [23:13:05] Why not just nominate files for deletion [23:13:41] If it's complaints from the rightsholders, that should go through the DMCA queue only. We can't make the process confusing for rightsholders. When we get a proper ticketing system in place I am open to the idea of allowing more people to respond to copyright takedown requests [23:14:20] Even if you whitelist it it is served from img_auth, as it just checks the private setting in ManageWiki to serve it over that. [23:23:18] I should have been more clear, I was referring to the second part of the sentence "anything you want to be viewed publically needs a static.wikitide address ..."