[00:33:49] > You stole all my money [00:33:54] Donation gone wrong? [01:20:51] Blog page deletion [03:10:08] So Discord has a messages when anyone created a thread. I just notice [11:06:52] Dormancy policy absolutely got ripped with a breakdown that would make me proud :p https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Talk:Dormancy_Policy [11:06:53] [url] Talk:Dormancy Policy - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [11:07:11] Fair points here and there, worth replying to if someone doesn't have it 'on the menu' already [11:19:47] Yeah, I've been looking at that, The points raised really needs to be addressed. [11:58:23] Probably the only way to satisfactorily address them is to redo how the content is laid out on the page [12:05:53] I imagine one way to start is to have the first main content actually lay out the process in a list format, ie, after x days, wiki is set to inactive, nothing really happens but it starts the next timer and a b-crat must remove it through managewiki And so on for each stage, following up with an 'if there has been no edits,' an abridged version of the same process. Following sections would be adoption and so on, including a recovery [12:05:53] section if the wiki database is uploaded to archive.org (with the obvious disclaimer for private wikis). [12:06:52] But, that would brick translations until they're redone... ¯_(ツ)_/¯ [12:31:12] These are some of the things I was almost doing until I considered consensus, then That user just boom, brought that up. [12:31:40] I was afraid If anyone could have objected. [12:37:58] For what it's worth I'd probably have agreed, a lot of the pages now that I look at it could use rewrite [12:38:11] But that can easily turn into an 'eyes bigger than stomach' deal >.< [12:41:35] Hmm [14:49:00] Hello Guest26! If you have any questions, feel free to ask and someone should answer soon. [15:24:30] The section written by TheDungeonMaster (talk) 13:46, 28 July 2021 (UTC) On Talk:Dormancy policy Arised several points [15:25:46] 'eyes bigger than stomach' is so much like my kind of projects @raidarr [15:34:18] Yeah, not uncommon at all to be sure. [16:40:30] Yeah [16:57:07] Just an fyi, there has been a new request for Stewardship: https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_Stewardship [16:57:08] [url] Requests for Stewardship - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [16:59:37] 5 Ugochimobi's Request for Stewardship [17:01:38] I absolutely support this, as he has done some reports, but I think I've done more reporting than he did, despite it not being an issue there. [17:06:22] Same, I support his RfS because he's shown himself to be very competent [17:06:29] How many days is for an steward request? [17:06:47] I don't think it matters how many days it can stay up. [17:06:57] I think it has to be a minimum of a week [17:07:25] > There is no fixed time requirement for requests to stay open, but the 20+ users should be given time to discuss any potential issues, and the candidate should address any concerns raised [17:07:38] no, sorry. I was asking how long is the election process [17:07:54] Ok, thanks agent [17:08:28] Darkmatter put some questions, so it seems the election will be long [17:10:14] I like the idea of community too, but i don't know much about the technical side of Miraheze so i can't be a steward. But i'm glad Ugochimobi applies to steward [17:10:53] You don't really have to know lots of technical things, you just need to be trusted by the community [17:11:10] Ugochimobi has shown to be a trusted person so that's a plus for him [17:12:14] I am trusted too (i think 😅 ) but i don't know technical things of Miraheze [17:21:24] I feel like we might want more globals than expanding the steward count just yet [17:21:35] not a statement against ugo, though [17:21:58] we definitely need global sysops but we also need Stewards too [17:22:15] all our stewards are currently busy [17:22:22] and can't attend to some of their vital functions [17:22:41] once we have enough Stewards, then focusing on Global Sysopship would be nice [17:23:13] I'm sure Doug has been very busy these past few days, we haven't seen him around for much [17:23:18] he pops in occasionally [17:26:08] I guess if that goes through I might give a sysop run a try, eventually. Probably a terrible idea now even still though :p [17:26:44] help is urgently needed at Miraheze, you should give it a try! [17:27:07] I mean, I've been spouting off repeatedly that I don't think I'm qualified, but I guess what better way to learn than by call to action :p [17:27:15] We have 1 global sysop at the moment, 1 that's requesting rights but even then, for 4400+ wikis, 2 sysops is too few a number [17:27:52] well, hopefully you apply in the future when you feel more capable [17:28:22] I guess if enough people just go 'yea whatever', then I could give it a shot :p [17:31:13] yeah, maybe build up experience and apply for sysop [17:31:24] just noticed your acc is 30days old lol [17:32:57] And what are the common task a sysop do? [17:34:22] From what I understand they pretty much drop in and deal with local issues if a local admin is not there, or if they request it, or if there's a severe bit of local drama requiring the intervention of global mediators [17:34:24] fighting vandalism [17:35:01] And murdering vandalism [17:35:03] Yes, exactly. [17:39:07] Good. I think that can be done with no need to know how to program or use github [17:40:06] I've always wondered if Stewards had to know certain GitHub codes or have little experience in programming. [17:40:30] I haven't seen Doug code, maybe not? [17:41:00] Doug can do basic [17:41:08] He can understand syntax [17:41:12] I can't code [17:41:26] well that's good [17:41:31] a bit of PHP [17:41:38] I do hope Doug returns at some point. [17:41:41] very useful, esp for MW [17:42:16] Did I hear doug can do BASIC? :p [17:42:22] Doug actually can though, He has done some, and I have witnessed it, he even did one for me back then. [17:42:25] Yes, you did. [17:42:35] A venerable coding language to be sure. [17:44:24] assembly ftw [17:44:41] binary keyboard or noting [17:45:08] Void's an expert at dealing with whatever issue arises anyway, so he definitely knows what he's doing. [17:46:42] Void's expertise is a no-brainer too. [17:48:30] I like how people in here are supportive of each other. For the little number of staff that we have, we help a lot [17:49:01] and the volunteer staff are tireless. That counts too 😄 [17:51:11] And it's definitely no time-waster either. [17:55:24] Perhaps a first step might be to step into wiki creator or some such on my part [17:56:59] Hi everyone. I'm glad to see that we have quite a few people willing to volunteer, that's great to hear 🙂 [17:57:00] I would too but I'm too shy [17:58:02] I can only look at top staff go 'we need volunteers, no really people should volunteer, it's ez just volunteer' and ignore it for so long >.> [17:58:57] I'd be more than happy to help, as long as I can get my act together. [17:58:57] yeah lol [17:58:58] Yeah it does depend on the role. For example, it's relatively easy to become wiki creator after being around here for a while but it would be quite difficult to become SRE in the Infrastructure team as that requires a lot of technical knowledge and trustworthiness [17:59:25] and some people are just made for some roles and aren't for others [17:59:28] I spend more time on Meta than on my actual wiki stuff anyways, so I guess I should do something about it [17:59:48] I'd like to spend more time on Meta but for now I've been mostly doing technical stuff [18:00:03] As I understand there's an awful lot of tech stuff need doing, anyways. [18:00:24] yeah, SRE has a huge backlog [18:00:26] Technically speaking I have some qualification, but not enough for what MH backend actually needs. [18:00:27] Yeah, there's definitely a large volunteer gap there [18:00:58] same, I was an MW admin for a while but idk if that'd be enough to satisfy the need of such a large wiki farm [18:01:52] I can handle Linux terminal/server, various hardware configurations/tests and have a degree involving networks, but none of that translates into the actual code knowledge to make the place better. Open offer still stands if MH needs and would like me to sponsor an extra server though. [18:02:09] However many bucks to get it running and stay running. [18:02:11] you can always donate [18:02:22] and help sponsor a server technically [18:02:30] Oh that's interesting. Of course people's comments and ideas are also really valuable and you don't necessarily have to have a role name to help [18:02:31] I'd donate an actionable amount to see it done if I know what and where it goes [18:02:39] "Wiki Creator" is also a role? If is easy to become a Wiki Creator i could apply at that. [18:02:40] anyone can help out and comment on tasks if they have knowledge on the topic [18:02:58] Wiki creator is a matter of knowing, understanding and evaluating requests in context of the content policy [18:03:07] Yeah, it's relatively easy to become a wiki creator. You just need to have a good understanding of the Content Policy, have been around for a bit and be active on Meta [18:03:25] Though most of the time it's "is it vaguely descriptive/not a bad thing/doesn't already exist' [18:03:44] yeah, and if there's something that you're unsure of you can just let a more experienced creator handle it [18:03:48] So I might go for that for good measure [18:03:51] I've read the Content Policy a few times over, maybe I should apply [18:04:12] ladies and gentlemen of discord, let us spam the requests with wiki creatorship [18:04:22] heh, it would be funny if all of a sudden we had 3 wiki creator requests 😄 [18:04:28] :winking: [18:04:33] by the way [18:04:39] It's bonkers volunteering season, why not [18:04:54] a bit off topic, but I don't recommend creating threads on the IRC relay channels [18:04:57] I'm not sure if all of you know but we're also currently experimenting with a CreateWiki artificial intelligence system [18:05:02] because they, well, don't get relayed [18:05:04] (i assume) [18:05:09] I saw that, that'd be awesome [18:05:10] I've heard of that, can't say I've been impressed with the formula thus far though. [18:05:29] Yeah, currently it's not been doing great yet but I have some ideas on how to improve it [18:05:36] the CreateWiki comments are usually on par [18:05:38] though I'm not a developer so I can't personally do that [18:05:45] Yes. I'm in the same position as Raidarr. I could donate some money to miraheze if i know where it goes. If it just to save in the bank account, then there is no urgent need. But maybe i'm not expressing myself the way i want. [18:05:52] that's a good observation yeah [18:06:13] And in fact there is an arguable degree of communal charm to manually accepting and having an open door for 'if you need any help with that let us know' [18:06:54] I do tend to be very reserved on donations, but this is a place where I could make the exception. It grew on me :p [18:07:03] will this AI on CreateWiki identify that a wiki of a specific topic already exists? [18:07:07] Meta is not supposed to be a wiki to read about Miraheze? the thing "being active on Meta" makes it looks like is a place someone can chat in there. Or maybe i'm not understanding it [18:07:25] Meta's defacto community central for Miraheze [18:07:41] Let's say, I create a wiki about, idk, Africa. And there's already a wiki about this topic, so the AI could point me to this wiki [18:07:53] I never used much community central in Fandom [18:08:16] I honestly don't even know how to navigate Wikia [18:08:21] How did you find Miraheze actually? I'm always curious [18:08:21] the whole layout is confusing [18:08:26] There is one description I don't care for, and it's the one that tells everyone that the request is 'a bit vague'. That in itself is 'a bit vague' and can bring needless head tilting where it's not necessary, and I think it's with the 'good' option [18:08:53] That's interesting, probably not but arguably even human creators would have a hard time with that [18:08:55]

@DarkMatterMan4500, hey, I sometimes wrote to you on nonciclopedia (italian uncyclopedia), right? [18:09:28] Saw it mentioned in a community central Fandom thread after most of my time has been just lurking around on Wikia turned Fandom. After attempting to communicate an idea with Fandom staff and them pretty much saying 'won't work', I gave Miraheze a look. [18:09:34] Of course. [18:09:45] Iirc the context was 'if you want a custom domain you can look at Miraheze' in said thread [18:09:53] Heh, these days most people come from Fandom as everyone is fed up with them [18:10:05] yeah, I've found so many discussions on Community Central mentioning Miraheze [18:10:19] Fandom legit is terrible [18:10:24] :sannse: [18:10:26] In my case it's not really salt so much as amicable 'well, can't really do what I want', and to their credit Fandom is willing to go as far as say 'try Miraheze' officially themselves to unsuitable wiki formulas. [18:10:56] Though I've only heard that they say it to wikis they're going to close, did not get that statement personally with my own inquiry. [18:10:57] The skins are okay, but staff and the amount of ads are terrible [18:11:07] we have someone here who likes calling Fandom Fandumb 😛 [18:11:08] iirc, i found miraheze through a list of wiki farm comparisions on Wikimedia [18:11:12] oh yeah, staff is so aggressive sometimes [18:11:16] on Fandom [18:11:18] it's insane [18:11:26] Omg thought about that the other day lol. [18:11:35] But yeah I've seen people really don't like the staff there [18:11:38] I think it's fair to say a not-fandom large scale wiki farm is going to attract the 'healthy critics' of the larger mass :p [18:11:47] Love the play on words with fandumb [18:12:03] and if you try to leave Fandom, they pump up their SEO juice and bury your fork wiki at the bottom of Google [18:12:04] I've personally never really been involved with Fandom so I don't know what goes on there but I've heard so many stories that it sounds terrible [18:12:07] actually, it was on wikipedia, lol [18:12:09] I would say the biggest problem is that they have to do everything in a corprorate frame, for corporate optimization and reader/advertising returns at the cost of editor agency [18:12:28] (WikiDex calls Fandom "Fandoom") [18:12:40] Fandoom... [18:13:14] So if you have a particular creative wiki vision in skin layout and editor optimization, you do not fit the fandom formula; the idea is to get as many wiki subjects as possible onto Fandom's homogeneous structure. And obviously for ad traffic and so on. [18:13:27] https://www.wikidex.net/wiki/WikiDex:WikiDex_ya_no_forma_parte_de_FANDOOM not in english, but Google Translator exists [18:13:29] [url] WikiDex:WikiDex ya no forma parte de FANDOOM - WikiDex, la enciclopedia Pokémon | www.wikidex.net [18:13:30] Made most clear when they acquired gamepedia and have very transparently been smushing it together with former wikia. [18:13:30] Yeah, they want you and then they don't want you to leave [18:13:38] It honestly surprises me that they provide XML dumps to users [18:13:46] Yeah lol [18:13:56] that's great for us though 😄 [18:14:08] Yeah, makes is easy to migrate [18:14:30] It's funny sometimes I have to contact Fandom because the dumps are outdated and I don't think they've caught on that I'm a sysadmin at Miraheze or else I don't think they'd be so nice as to update the dumps every time for different wikis [18:14:33] "homogeneous structure". that's key to fandom. Even changing the banner on the main page breaks the policy for fandom [18:14:37] They want you to leave if your wiki is not ad friendly, is communally problematic (ie, the reception wikis) or if it is a topical splinter of an existing wiki (ie, where miraheze has a very high tolerance for duplication, Fandom can be merciless and will redirect your project into a larger mass) [18:15:30] So not to be a defender, but I do think to an extent a good portion of their individuals are reasonable and the company itself is mostly just looking out for its best interests, and usually doesn't act in a way that indicates malice or should I say, microsoft like behavior. They just know very clearly what they want, are typically transparent about it and rarely budge. And of course some people are better than others. [18:15:35] Yeah, I mean the Content Policy doesn't allow direct forks of other wikis but two wikis on the same topic can work or at least we're willing to discuss that with the communities rather than just shut them down [18:16:25] Yeah that makes sense. Not sure if you know the whole story but at least they're not like Freenode who banned everyone who even said the words Libera.chat [18:16:38] In reception wiki alone the fandom policy (if they allowed reception wikis) would likely take issue with a) the decentralized nature of many reception wikis b) wikis with similar purpose (ie, new reception wiki and qualitipedia and the newest 'wiki of good' [18:16:54] Apparently Freenode went pretty bonkers in top administration >.> [18:17:15] I've always been more of a forum user myself, rarely ever found IRC. [18:17:17] Well the reception wikis (the ones that are negative) were definitely problematic and as you probably know Stewards also ended up shutting down all the ones that were negative-based [18:17:18] Oh yeah, for the robloxwiki import, I am the only contributor iirc [18:17:25] let's say, this is the biggest problem with free commercial services [18:17:43] yeah, the Crown Prince of Korea went crazy [18:17:54] because the owner can take any actions they want and people will find reasonable because the service is "free" [18:17:59] like facebook [18:18:16] Aye, and I can definitely see where Fandom was coming from. Naturally you've seen the flareups pop into Meta especially as of the past few months :p [18:18:17] That’s legit what I want to change [18:18:37] IMO the community should be involved in most changes [18:18:55] Yeah... Miraheze is fine with positive Reception wikis but the negative ones were way too problematic and contained all sorts of rumours, defamation and all that so they had to go [18:19:25] Yes, that's definitely important and as you may have noticed lately we are consulting the community for such changes (i.e. ManageWiki changes) [18:19:50] MH could fund some projects to attract more people :P [18:19:58] To an extent Fandom does involve the community, but rather than just about anyone who wants to comment having a pull, there's mainly the Community Council system and a handful of staffers in place like the Discord. Part of it is likely also from the sheer scale of Fandom not being able to do the community gig the way MH at its scale does. Imagine 100 users editing support into the latest consultations, especially when a majority are [18:19:59] just various editors :p [18:20:12] But all in all I just plain like the Miraheze formula better. [18:20:13] Hm? [18:20:46] i'm not sure if "fund" in english always means something with money [18:21:16] I mean, Miraheze could have some more "official" wikis, as sort of projects [18:21:22] The qualification/quantification question still bugs the 'horrible/terrible/crappy' etc wikis today :p but at least they seem to keep running, and that's another thing I like about MH; it is incredibly reluctant to stick its toes into local issues, as well as pushes back when the local issues attempt to extrapolate across the wider network. [18:21:42] Do you mean as far as technically supporting/promoting the most edited communities as a 'flagship' pitch? [18:21:56] Hm, do I need to change my password to 12+ characters now? [18:22:02] Or the most complete ones, I should also say [18:22:08] Just saw T7713 [18:22:09] well, it could be there are a lot of interesting wikis out there, but I don't think many people know [18:22:23]