[00:21:05] @Reception123 Do you have an explanation for this? ^ [03:51:02] Naleksuh, it was a valid close. Consensus is not merely counting !votes [03:51:37] @Bukkit, I'm okay with leaving you with the `global-ipblock-exempt` global group for now. No real need to downgrade it at this point [04:37:03] dmehus : I never said it was [04:37:58] But even if it is about counting !votes, did *anyone* support it? [04:38:36] Most people in neutral seemed like they were leaning oppose and there was certainly much more opposes than supports [04:38:46] There was only one support. [04:38:54] And if we are gauging cluocracy, where is the argument for supporting it? [04:39:29] that. (Only one support) really doesn't show consensus tbh. [04:39:30] The only support said they preferred meta sysop anyway, and mulutiple people listed very good reasons why it should not be by stewards [04:39:48] So no matter whether you are going by votes or arguuments, consensuus was clearly against it [04:40:20] I will take this onwiki and request overturn especially if no one has anything to defend it other than `Consensus is not merely counting !votes` [04:40:29] And the one support actually said the counter argument (only meta administrators can assign it) is preferable but still supported. [04:41:30] I don't see any way to say that has any sort of supporting consensus tbh. [04:42:21] Yeah [04:42:25] I am going to request overturn onwiki [04:42:29] I'll ping you when done [04:42:37] It's not true that there was only one support. Those classified as 'neutral' were with conditional or secondary supports. As Reception123 noted, Proposal 1 was successful, but it doesn't preclude a non-Meta sysop Steward (there are currently none, so it's moot currently) from granting a Meta IPBE instead of a GIPBE, when it's been requested privately [04:43:14] It would not be appropriate for a Steward to share a private e-mail request for a GIPBE with a Meta administrator who has not signed an NDA [04:43:35] We weren't talking about GIPBE [04:43:48] Local IPBE [04:44:12] Right, I get that, and that's how it was closed. If a local IPBE is being requested, it's Meta administrators [04:44:14] This is about local IP block, that is up to the local communities, as such any such request should be redirected to local venues as would be if it wasn't meta. [04:44:28] At least my opinion there. [04:45:08] but if a Meta administrator has referred a local IPBE request to a Steward for further consideration, or a Steward receives a private request for a GIPBE and the user is only active on Meta Wiki, they may grant an IPBE on Meta Wiki instead [04:45:49] but if a user has a legitimate need for a Meta IPBE on Meta Wiki, to edit through Tor, and the Meta sysop has no concerns with the user, then the Meta administrator would be the one to grant [04:46:45] `but if a Meta administrator has referred a local IPBE request to a Steward for further consideration` [04:46:47] What? [04:46:53] This doesn't happen [04:47:00] Because again, Stewards are not supposed tobe granting it [04:49:11] CosmicAlpha : Its up now [05:07:24] Naleksuh, it doesn't mean it won't happen in the future [05:14:20] Then that would be appropriate for the meta sysop to do [05:16:52] cosmicalpha [05:19:59] Naleksuh: I prefer to stay out of further conversation with this. I mean I gave my opinion already and further publically arguing my point has never really got me anywhere but into drama. Thanks for the CN post. I'll just wait and see where it goes, and I'll have to accept whatever outcome comes out of that. [05:21:00] CosmicAlpha : Did you? [05:21:05] Your opinion off wiki means nothing [05:21:08] Neither does mine or dmehus [05:21:14] It needs to be on wiki in order to get anywhere [05:24:57] Naleksuh: that's true. I might comment on the CN post later tonight or tomorrow then, but first I want to see where it goes if it goes absolutely nowhere I probably will, otherwise I just won't get further involved. I want to wait for Reception123 to give a more detailed explanation for the closure before I comment also. I do admit this does seem like it could've been a somewhat of a hard closure so maybe Reception123 will just need [05:24:57] to talk with John and see where to go with this. Until then I won't comment, but after some explanation is given I likely will. [18:46:39] betaheze 🤔 [18:47:02] 🤫 [18:47:16] We're planning to overthrow Miraheze 😆 [18:54:12] It's currently broken [20:39:22] RhinosF1 : What date were the accounts copied over? [20:39:29] I changed my email a few weeks ago so I need to know when to usue [20:42:54] Yesterday [20:43:01] But they don't fully work yet [20:44:31] Oh okay [20:44:35] So I can't reset password? [20:45:02] Wait WHAT [20:45:12] meta.betaheze.org shows me Miraheze homepage https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/mQCIwlj1/image.png [20:45:17] And it's even in English this time [20:45:21] beta.betaheze.org [20:45:34] Agent : We weren't talking about that [20:45:47] Oh wait, no, they all do that [20:45:48] Not just meta [20:46:09] Strangely enough, everything except what actually *is* the homepage shows the homepage [20:46:12] Wrong on both counts [20:47:48] Oh yeah, I can't reset my password because it is attached to no wikis https://beta.betaheze.org/wiki/Special:CentralAuth/Naleksuh [20:47:49] [url] Global account information for Naleksuh - Betaheze | beta.betaheze.org [20:48:35] Betaheze accounts are a hot mess right now so I suggest staying away from it until CentralAuth is fixed 100% [20:50:42] I'm not really sure what is going on with beta.betaheze.org [20:50:48] Especially because beta.miraheze.org takes you there [20:51:00] That's a problem if they are using the same resources [20:53:21] We can create you an account [20:53:27] There's issues with memcache too [20:53:52] s/too/though [20:53:52] RhinosF1 meant to say: There's issues with memcache though [20:54:02] So it's not the best state at the moment [20:54:40] Ah okay [20:54:48] I already have a global account, but it's attached nowhere [20:54:59] Also, what is the deal with beta.miraheze.org [20:55:07] Betaheze shouldn't be linked to Miraheze it should be its own thing [21:00:18] It's the same CreateWiki DB for now [21:00:27] That is a problem.... [21:00:31] But hopefully it is fixed down the road [21:00:31] And no you don't, it's just a horrible cache [21:00:34] it is beta after all [21:00:36] It will be [21:00:45] It's a beta setup of beta [21:00:58] https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/xD5PUwQH/image.png [21:01:08] https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/9YYe8wPQ/image.png [21:01:18] And why does it say "All existing accounts were copied over" if it's not? [21:02:06] All existing local accounts were copied over so if you had visited Betaheze in the past, your account was migrated [21:02:41] RhinosF1 says I don't have an account [21:02:53] And that it's cached [21:05:29] Welcome back, Agent [21:05:57] It's a messed up cache from prod [21:06:08] The account doesn't actually exist [21:06:22] It's just displaying half info from production [21:06:52] Betaheze should not in any way be connected to Miraheze [21:06:57] Agreed [21:07:03] Takes time to set stuff up [21:07:18] I was talking to JohnLewis but I think we need more memory on test [21:08:05] Thank you [21:09:11] uh, how long did that take to send lol [21:09:28] I think my "Thank you" was delayed by about 2 minutes heh [21:13:27] Agent : 1:08:06 [21:19:33] RhinosF1 : So can you create my account now or it is morer once it is moved off Miraheze? [21:19:45] Also, what 'memory on test'? Is test Betaheze or testwiki? [21:26:33] Naleksuh: id rather we wait until memcache isn't messed up [21:26:38] And on the test server [21:27:41] "the test server" is Betaheze? [21:42:46] Betaheze is the test cluster for SRE to use to hopefully improve the testing regime for MediaWiki upgrades. It's hosted on Miraheze infrastructure. I personally don't really like the name "Betaheze" and would've preferred "Beta Miraheze," as I generally don't like combining two words together to form a new word when one word forms an official corporate name or brand. I also don't think we should've migrated any existing local betawiki accounts to [21:42:46] the new cluster, but that's in the past and is in the process of being resolved / is resolved [21:50:08] Fine, we'll ask Owen to register Betaheze as a part of the Miraheze trademark :P [21:50:15] hopefully then you'll embrace Betaheze [21:51:07] Why would we need that? [21:51:13] Nobody other than developers will use this [21:51:21] If there is a trademark dispute we can just switch domains or something [21:51:56] Naleksuh: dmehus says he doesn't like the name Betaheze because it's a new word formed from an official corporate name so I suggested registering it so that he feels comfortable using it [21:56:31] It's not a trademark dispute. Also, it's not a registered trademark, but Miraheze Limited would have inherent/implicit legal rights to use the name 'Miraheze', at least in the UK, as it's a UK-incorporated entity, I'm sure [21:56:54] Miraheze is trademarked [21:57:00] dmehus: it wouldn't have prevented any of the issues we've seen would creating accounts new [21:57:02] "Betaheze" is not, but there's no reason we need to lock into that name [21:57:10] And it doesn't even need to have that name at all, it could just be "aoweirjfaoweifjqawoefijwaoeif.org" [21:57:11] Naleksuh, not as far as I'm aware [21:57:21] I find the 'betaheze' bit fairly harmless tbh [21:57:37] Also, side poke to dmehus that a proper response is posted in dm [21:57:49] aoweirjfaoweifjqawoefijwaoeif.org [21:57:50] raidarr, thanks will look :) [21:57:52] raidarr : I didn't say it was harmful, I'm just saying it doesn't have to be "betaheze" [21:57:55] Ignoring my mid-day 'not ready yet' messages :p [21:58:01] Also yes, my test domain is `skjkwgmckukqyzyf.xyz` if you are curious [21:58:26] I mean, yes, it's harmless, considering we're using it on Miraheze infrastructure, but it's just more of a personal preference [21:58:45] I wouldn't look too deeply in my use of 'harmful', just an impression to counter the thought that betaheze isn't necessarily a great name [21:59:13] yeah [21:59:16] Strengths and weaknesses, I find it mildly catchy :p [22:00:19] Where is everyone going? [22:00:59] Mildly catchy, yes, but I'm not sure SRE's beta/test wiki cluster needs a catchy name. I'd probably prefer a theme, like names of planets, names of stars, or something. Names of stars could be interesting, since that's part of the origin of the name 'Miraheze' [22:01:25] Hezemira for a change [22:01:26] Discretionary I suppose, you could argue in either direction [22:02:05] Agent, Hezemira as the name of the test cluster? Not a bad idea. I like that. It's sufficiently more different than "Betaheze." [22:02:09] A familiar ish name with a twist does suit the informal requirements of 'branding' the test platform [22:02:26] In other words, perhaps making it much different or thematic is not necessarily desirable [22:02:54] Going to make me spend more money on another domain 😆 [22:02:59] dmehus : The domain has already been registered [22:03:01] Maybe for a Meta staging wiki [22:03:14] Naleksuh, ah [22:03:19] If it were up to me, I would just use a randomly regenerated domain [22:04:56] We could probably debate Raidarr's preference and my preference all day, but I'm not sure about a randomly generated name. What's your rationale behinmd that? [22:05:47] Naleksuh, I do not see where the name "hezemira" is already registered. Which TLD were you were referring to? [22:06:03] dmehus : I meant that the domain betaheze.org had already been registered [22:06:15] Ultimately, the name doesn't matter, and there is no reason to make even more domains and problems [22:07:00] Naleksuh, oh yeah, I knew that. Yeah, I'm not suggesting we change it at this point, not a compelling enough reason; just expressing a personal preference [22:15:59] sigmaheze.org [22:16:59] that's an interesting one also yeah [22:21:29] Naleksuh: that domain name is just, truly inspiring 🥲 [22:21:37] ? [22:21:47] (he's talking about the .xyz domain) [22:21:58] skjkwgmckukqyzyf.xyz? [22:22:04] Yes [22:22:06] Yep [22:22:54] If I’m honest, I would never remember the domain name, and would have to go to the domain host :P [22:24:44] Naleksuh and Agent, oh [22:25:23] Bukkit, do you mean you wouldn't use a custom domain because you'd never remember the domain name to access your website? [22:26:29] I mean like the skjkwgmckukqyzyf.xyz [22:26:34] re: randomly generated domain names like that, though, the issue for me is why would I pay for a randomly generated domain name? That sort of defeats the purpose of a common name [22:26:41] Bukkit, oh yeah, I see what you mean :) [22:26:50] dmehus : Because it's only for your own use [22:26:52] Not for other people to use [22:27:29] Naleksuh, why not use something like bit.ly or something then, or some other randomly generated subdomain on a parent domain? [22:27:37] Because I don't own bit.ly [22:27:39] SOmeone else owns it [22:28:01] true, but like skjkwgmckukqyzyf.naleksuh.com only you would know [22:28:06] or is that too long? [22:28:20] For some stuff, I need a full domain, a subdomain isn't enough [22:28:27] Also, people could still do DNS lookups on naleksuh.com [22:28:37] true [22:29:21] I hope ICANN can finally put forth a GDPR-compliant proposal that unbreaks the WHOIS system [22:29:24] just obfuscate whatever you've installed in a maze of directories [22:29:36] No [22:29:38] Agent, that could work too [22:29:39] And that also doesn't change the domain [22:29:40] /jehwusuwjjw/iurwiiwj2937odje/mediawiki :P [22:29:42] It could not work too [22:29:53] Like I said, some stuff I need is DNS entries etc [22:29:58] Or needs to be on the root directory [23:08:58] Naleksuh: I assume beta is happy that you don't exist now [23:09:07] ? [23:16:02] Naleksuh: try look up your account [23:16:10] Oh [23:16:11] Why it's gone? [23:16:39] Naleksuh: because cache is no longer broken [23:19:21] Oh