[00:04:54] Naleksuh, I don't think 90 days is unreasonable by any stretch. These things take time. What I'd just like is some sort of firm, actionable, and measurable commitment with respect to timelines [00:05:15] Is this you? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d6yBHDvKUw [00:05:16] [YouTube] ⁨These Things, They Take Time.⁩ | 9s | Channel: ⁨Reverend_Puffin⁩ | 574,208 views | 2012-06-09 - 20:31:47 [00:05:21] They've had time, plenty of time [00:05:38] Also, there is no legal stuff for them to sort out at all [00:06:05] Miraheze can help them out from their end- for example, by changing the incredibly vague `bots` domain to whatever new name they choose [00:07:27] We have quite a few wikis which utilize vague subdomains. Note that in this case, they're using `wiki.mirahezebots.org, not `bots.miraheze.org` (that only serves as a redirect) [00:08:03] Their database is `botswiki`, which is incredibly vague and would normally be for either an official Miraheze project or a wiki about bots [00:08:28] Agent, for example, uses `irc.miraheze.org`, and the db name is `ircwiki`. Should we compel him to rename his wiki so we can use it for official purposes? [00:08:47] I don't think that would be fair; I'd rather invite them to request a db rename :) [00:09:34] I can't view the contents of `irc.miraheze.org`, but I assume it is a wiki about IRC [00:09:45] In this specific case, people would assume bots.miraheze.org is a wiki about bots [00:09:54] It's an old Orain IRC Wiki archive he and, I think, Southparkfan started [00:09:55] to be quite fair, there are a lot of wikis with vague domains [00:10:03] Agent: exactly [00:10:16] There shouldn't be [00:10:21] Honestly, this shit needs to stop. [00:10:26] Also, in this specific case, the domain was reserved for an official Miraheze project [00:10:38] Citation needed? [00:11:10] Miraheze Bots, before being renamed [00:11:34] Miraheze Bots was never an official Miraheze project, though? [00:11:34] How do you know that/why do you think so? [00:11:37] I'm confused [00:12:05] As wiki people I think we can all agree that repeating a fact isn't the same as providing a citation. [00:12:52] just like Public Test Wiki and even Miraheze Template Wiki are not official projects, though they do have some Miraheze community-established procedural grounding in the form of conventions, documentation, and norms [00:13:14] I was unaware those were not official projects either [00:13:22] These projects are extremely misleading [00:13:28] Why don't you make a list of what you believe is and is not official? [00:13:34] And, in your own words, citation needed [00:14:09] Template Wiki was started by Rob Kam, if not mistaken, but over time, it's received some grounding as a quasi-official project wiki in the form of community referrals, documentation, and the like [00:14:25] And is that also dev or just template? [00:14:59] Miraheze Developers Wiki was started in 2020 by CosmicAlpha, aided by myself, though that does have a CN discussion which the community endorsed [00:15:29] Miraheze Commons is an official wiki because it is required for the InstantCommons/WikimediaCommons extension, afaik [00:15:52] No it isn't required for that. [00:16:10] Commons was established by an RfC in 2017/2018 I believe [00:16:10] It is another shared repository acting like Wikimedia Commons/instant commons. [00:16:18] CosmicAlpha, well it is in the sense of having a local Miraheze shared repository [00:16:30] otherwise we'd be using WMF Commons [00:16:33] Agent, yeah [00:16:34] I'm not sure what the purpose of Miraheze Commons is [00:16:39] It just duplicates Wikimedia Commons [00:16:42] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_Comment/Miraheze_Commons_-_a_common_image_repository_for_Miraheze [00:16:44] [url] Requests for Comment/Miraheze Commons - a common image repository for Miraheze - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [00:17:07] Naleksuh, it does provide us more freedom than Wikimedia Commons, where file hosting is subject to Wikimedia community policies [00:17:32] also local uploads are disabled on Loginwiki, so Commons is required for global user pages [00:17:47] Editing should be disabled on loginwiki [00:17:50] Agent, thanks for that RfC [00:17:51] It ruins the point of having a login wiki at all [00:18:00] dmehus: np [00:21:38] Anyway, that's not related to the point about the database, both in part because it is not an official project and will be renaming and because it is not a wiki about bots, and certainly is much more likely to be an advertising platform [00:22:38] so shall we go ahead and rename every wiki with a 'vague' subdomain? [00:24:03] yeah, as wiki creators, we can be proactive in encouraging users to select a more clear subdomain [00:24:27] Agent : I haven't come across any others, but it would depend on the situation [00:24:32] but as to existing wikis, I don't think it's something we should undertake, which is why I'd only suggest it [00:24:46] Naleksuh, test.miraheze.org [00:25:22] although that existed first and yet SRE used test1wiki, test2wiki, test3wiki, though I'm glad that's been renamed now [00:25:34] First off, I was under the impression that was an official wiki. Second, even if it is "vague", test.miraheze.org accurately sums it up just fine [00:25:49] True to the second point [00:26:22] Another Miraheze project, the bad thing is they use non-free licenses. [00:26:32] The Miraheze Commons [00:26:47] NoDerivates or NonCommercial is no free licences [00:26:48] It has some codification with respect wiki creator documentation, and in various discussions, but no, it's still a wiki founded by NDKilla and Reception123 [00:27:47] In this specific case, the problem would be that `bots.miraheze.org` is not a wiki about bots but would be for one particular bot hosting service which is about to have a new name [00:28:58] but who is to say that Miraheze would have any more rights to that subdomain? And invariably, they'll likely use a custom domain, so I still don't see a compelling rationale to force a db rename [00:29:07] But I think Miraheze Commons uses this license because it's available for wikis [00:29:21] Hi Doug 👋 [00:29:22] It is a subdomain of miraheze.org [00:29:26] if someone had a legitimate need for that subdomain, we could approach them about requesting a db rename, but until then, I'd say it's pretty harmless [00:29:31] Also, it applies to all wiki names, and the database name [00:29:36] `botswiki` [00:29:42] but so are about 5,000+ subdomains [00:29:57] Most of them are different [00:30:06] Cool [00:30:26] If the bots project wishes to have its subdomain changed as a part of their rebranding, that's up to them. There is no precedent (nor should one be set without global community consensus) that the holders of any particular subdomain must meet some specificity of their wiki to use that subdomain. [00:30:32] I don't really see how this is any different, though? [00:30:45] Nice [00:30:51] Bueno [00:30:59] > If the bots project wishes to have its subdomain changed as a part of their rebranding, that's up to them. There is no precedent (nor should one be set without global community consensus) that the holders of any particular subdomain must meet some specificity of their wiki to use that subdomain. [00:30:59] agreed [00:31:12] Because the subdomains of most wikis are not that misleading [00:31:25] I don't see it as misleading, though? [00:31:27] Most of them are a negative quality then a category of things [00:31:34] I already explained how it is misleading [00:31:36] Scroll up [00:31:47] It's a bot-related wiki we host, and it redirects to wiki.mirahezebots.org / any new custom domain [00:32:17] > Anyway, that's not related to the point about the database, both in part because it is not an official project and will be renaming and because it is not a wiki about bots, and certainly is much more likely to be an advertising platform [00:32:17] I don't see that? [00:32:28] Any reasonable person would expect `botswiki` to be a wiki about bots, not one specific third-party bot hosting service [00:33:30] awb not welcome with me [00:33:36] Well, that's the case with non-English wikis about astronomy or biology that use the generic "astronomy" or "biology" handle, expecting they be an English wiki related to the subject. Or with private wikis that use a coveted, generic subdomain [00:33:53] it's not ideal, but there's no precedent, as Void explained, for compelling such renames [00:34:05] We can definitely *ask* them, but should not require it [00:34:19] nobody seems to care here — relay is too slow to get messages out [00:38:02] I was under the impression that users could request whatever domain name they wanted. Is that not the case? [00:38:18] They can *request* whatever domain name they want [00:38:18] I thought that's part and parcel with user choice. [00:38:27] As for whether or not it will actually be approved is a different story [00:38:32] There is an explicit contingency where a name should be more or less pertinent to the wiki topic and not too general in nature [00:38:40] That makes sense [00:39:20] Though it's more explicit on the WC side of things as prefabricated decline reasons [00:39:58] As long as the relation is seen to the topic at hand, it seems fine. [00:42:55] I tend to agree with this, compelling a rename of an existing wiki doesn't seem right. Just my two cents. [00:43:56] It's only on IRC that I realize the conversational disconnect that is caused by the bot not relaying discord's response feature [00:56:33] @dmehus please, unprotect the last RfC, your unsigned [00:58:01] Unprotection has been done shortly ago [00:58:09] No for me [00:58:42] It should be unprotected to anyone [01:00:35] Thz [01:02:59] @raidarr This relay is very bad, IRC users ignore Discord, do you agree, Raidarr? [01:03:07] Probably accidental or not [01:03:20] I don't see how ignoring is the case [01:03:34] if anything, deleted messages on discord are not deleted on irc [01:03:54] I will say, if you edit a discord message, that also won't appear on IRC - so correcting with a subsequent post in the relay channels is always best [01:06:30] No one ignores you. The issue is that whenever you talk, it seems everyone else is on a different point and continues on their conversation. [01:11:27] I know right [01:11:51] Access to your DM is free [01:36:13] @YellowFrogger: can confirm. I never pay any attention to Discord traffic into IRC channels. 🙃 [01:48:09] me either [01:53:59] Eu não sei quem você é, então esqueça 🙂 [01:54:12] I don't know who you are, so forget it 🙂 [01:54:24] I dont have the relay ignored [02:08:19] YellowFrogger: parabéns pelo seu português [02:26:29] Obrigado [03:44:50] Jesus Christ [03:45:03] I commented on two wiki requests for more information then other wiki creators just approved them without even reading the comments [03:45:08] Agent, we need an on hold status ASAP [03:45:39] And even better, this was two DIFFERENT wiki creators, not the same one twice [09:16:50] Personally I'd think we need more community between wiki creators [09:16:51] [tell] raidarr: 2022-01-17 - 06:28:48UTC tell raidarr Sorry I didn't get a chance to talk at length with you this weekend, left you a few bite/byte-sized MemoServ messages, so please review your MemoServ messages when you get a chance and DM me with questions :) [09:16:59] we can't be all on the same page if we're all islands [14:59:43] how is the migration going? in which letter is now? has it finished? [15:17:18] Long done now "p [15:17:48] After cleanup is all, not much of that left i hear [15:25:09] @Jakeukalane Hi [15:25:09] It's been a while :) [15:26:08] still a while to get to t, then [15:29:08] lol [15:35:13] hi ugochimobi, I am here from time to time though. Was here yesterday. Maybe in editions we don't have as many editions as before because we almost finishing importing the articles (17 years of articles 1100 articles) [15:38:00] ah, maybe when I'm around You're not and when You're around I'm not :) [15:38:25] wow, what an amazing import [15:38:25] The migration finished some days ago [15:39:01] JohnLewis, yeah, I am aware of that [15:39:25] ugochimobi: I wasn't answer your question [15:40:08] ah, okay then. [17:53:34] hello [19:14:19] Hello [21:21:28] quiet night on the miraheze rivera [21:56:14] Hi raidarr, getting lots of words in [22:03:27] BurningPrincess Hi [22:03:27] How's your wiki rn? [22:03:43] ugochimobi, getting words pretty fast [22:04:21] ah, great [22:07:27] #I may be able to break 2 million this month [22:14:05] WOW [22:19:05] ugochimobi, I know wikis bigger