[16:51:40] <ApexAgunomu>	 Are there any stewards here? Just wondering as I need to tell one of them something private.
[16:55:19] <ApexAgunomu>	 It's okay, I'll check back later. It's nothing urgent
[17:17:53] <MirahezeBot>	 Hello Guest969! If you have any questions, feel free to ask and someone should answer soon.
[17:19:30] <Guest969>	 Hello, I have problems to login to Phabricator.Miraheze.Org with my existing user account validated on Meta.Miraheze.Org and on Login.Miraheze.Org where I could also edit my "global" user page.
[17:19:59] <Guest969>	 I'd like to report other problems, but it seems that your Phabricator instance is out of sync with the rest of your wiki servers.
[17:20:33] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Agent> What's the issue specifically?
[17:20:55] <Guest969>	 Phabricator.Miraheze.org constantly returns "invalid username or password"
[17:21:11] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Agent> You have to click the "Login with MediaWiki" button at the bottom of the form
[17:21:33] <Guest969>	 and if I click "I forgot my password" it does not even know my email (even if it exists and is validated in the wikis)
[17:21:49] <Guest969>	 I have also used "click with MediaWiki" and this does not work
[17:21:58] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Agent> What error does that button give you?
[17:22:28] <Guest969>	 I have also used "connect by Google" but your server says that you've closed this OAuth provider
[17:22:42] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Agent> That's not even an option afaik...
[17:23:41] <Guest969>	 The message "Username or password are incorrect." in a red box, at top of the form and "Invalid" in red above both fields "User name" and "Password"
[17:25:01] <Guest969>	 If I click "password reset" and send the email address with whcih I am already authentificated in the "Login" and "Meta" wikis, it just says "There is no account associated with that email address."
[17:25:34] <Guest969>	 So I think that Phabricator is just out of sync or has a long lag behind wikis
[17:26:04] <Guest969>	 or that it has lost its own connection to the database used by Login.Miraheze.Org"
[17:26:08] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Agent> You don't sign in with Phabricator, you sign in via Meta. Follow the guide on [[Phabricator]] and see what happens
[17:26:08] <wm-bot>	 https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Phabricator
[17:26:09] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Wiki-Bot> <https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Phabricator>
[17:26:09] <MirahezeBot>	 [url] Phabricator - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org
[17:26:32] <Guest969>	 That's exactly what I used already.
[17:27:38] <Guest969>	 And I ma already logged in suyccessfully in Meta.Miraheze.org and on Login.Miraheze.org
[17:28:00] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Agent> And what error do you get when you click the "Login with MediaWiki" button?
[17:28:48] <Guest969>	 Exactly whatI said above: The red box "Username or password are incorrect." and just below, "Invalid" in red above both input fields.
[17:30:51] <Guest969>	 Are there characters that may cause issues in passwords or usernames ? I use a password manager that generated a complex password containing a dollar sign
[17:31:30] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Agent> Please send a screenshot
[17:33:18] <Guest969>	 How do I send a "sreenshote in a text-only IRC ?
[17:33:23] <Guest969>	 screenshort"
[17:33:29] <Guest969>	 "screenshot"
[17:34:07] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Agent> Upload it to Imgur or something and then paste the link
[17:42:10] <Guest969>	 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QDWGSsf9STn12DFssZawmAkY4zsmBlpL/view?usp=sharing
[17:42:11] <MirahezeBot>	 [url] invalid login phabricator.miraheze.png - Google Drive | drive.google.com
[17:44:21] <Guest969>	 Note also that I cannot login here in this channel with my miraheze account (there's an IPv6 connection timeouts reported between libera.chat and yoru server)
[17:45:13] <Guest969>	 I suspect the Phabricator.Miraheze has losts its IPv6 configuration or does not route it correctly
[17:46:08] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Agent> That's not the correct form
[17:46:10] <Guest969>	 Note that my fiber access also has IPv4, it is dual stacked. IPv6 is jsut used by default
[17:46:13] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Agent> You must click "Login with MediaWiki"
[17:46:20] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Agent> And it'll take you to Miraheze Meta
[17:46:41] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Agent> Stop trying to login with that form, that one doesn't work for normal users
[17:48:13] <Guest969>	 Oh I see that there's was a very long delay to send the authorization to my email. I had already granted the authorizatrion in a prior email.
[17:49:10] <Guest969>	 OK now it works (note also that Wikimedia MetaWiki also has its own local delays!)
[17:49:43] <Guest969>	 I had already tried that button, and it failed multiple times !
[17:50:47] <Guest969>	 OK thanks anyway... I suppose this was temporary, because I had already tried all options before, including the one you suggested
[17:51:26] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <raidarr> the only option that is supposed to work is login with mediawiki and if you had confirmed your email then yeah, quite possibly was a server side hiccup
[17:54:47] <Guest969>	 It's strange that you do not even offer a connection to your own Phabricator using your existing connection to your own "Login" or "Meta" servers.... the MediaWiki server is not supposed to be used this way as your agent. So your users have to manage two identities, which may be different between MediaWiki (where they not even be allowed to
[17:54:48] <Guest969>	 access), and your own wiki (using very different policies, notablyt in terms of privacy)
[17:56:10] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Agent> The Privacy Policy is the same globally, no wiki can impose their own afaik
[17:56:12] <Guest969>	 But may be you think that for your own security, the Wikimedia servers offer a better 24/7 protection than what you could do yourself in your own farm.
[17:56:53] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <Agent> At most, we should disable the Phabricator login form (cc @Reception123)
[17:58:38] <Guest969>	 and anyway most users of your Phabricators should also be users of Wikimedia. But your wikis are supposed to be used for much less technical users and smaller and more local contents. If they wanted to be connected with the world at large and abey everything that is required (or limited) in Wikimedia, they would not need your farm to hsot their own
[17:58:38] <Guest969>	 small wiki.
[18:00:01] <Guest969>	 but beause your support instructs all your users to report problem to Meta, which then drives them to your Phabricator, what you are doing is to drive all your users to get an account on Wikimedia if they have any problem on your locl wikis, but Wikiemdia won't help them!
[18:00:23] <Guest969>	 That's quite strange !
[18:01:23] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <raidarr> where does phabricator bounce people to wikimedia
[18:01:28] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <raidarr> it certainly doesn't do that when I get in
[18:02:38] <Sario>	 Guest969: are you sure that you're going to the Miraheze Phabricator? https://phabricator.miraheze.org/
[18:02:39] <MirahezeBot>	 [url] Main Page | phabricator.miraheze.org
[18:03:01] <ApexAgunomu>	 Can I please be unbanned on discord? I promise not to spam any more.
[18:03:07] <Guest969>	 Also there are many suers that have been excluded unfairly from Wikimedia jsut because of actions of admins on small wikimedia wikis (some of them are known to be badly administered). Crating such dependency between the Wikimedia real ond Miraheze means that they are no longer independant.
[18:03:07] <Guest969>	 Yes finally my logon to Phab.mh worked
[18:04:14] <Sario>	 There is no connection between Miraheze and Wikimedia, save for the fact that Miraheze uses Mediawiki software
[18:05:39] <Guest969>	 There is a connection if you require us to get a connection on Phabricator.Miraheze that ONLY works for users that are actually logged in via MediaWiki.org (in the Wikimedia realm for SUL)
[18:06:30] <Guest969>	 Mediawiki.org is very restrictive (even more than other wm wikis) and tend to eject people very rapidly.
[18:07:25] <Guest969>	 I have an account ther, but it is very easy to get blocked for jsut a minor unintentional thing. MediaWiki.org has a very small local community.
[18:09:27] <Sario>	 Miraheze Phabricator requires a Miraheze login, not a Mediawiki.org login
[18:10:16] <Guest969>	 Anyway will you accept something that was just blocked in MediaWiki.org (not my case, but I know a lot), but not at all globally (so they have many valid accounts in all other WM wikis). Normally they should have an SUL-unified WM account, which should permit their access via WM MetaWiki or WM Commons (very popular, including for your use on your
[18:10:17] <Guest969>	 wikis where you borrow its mediafiles), rather than by mediawiki.org which is very obscure and too technical for many users.
[18:11:08] <Sario>	 No, because MediaWiki.org has nothing to do with anything in Miraheze
[18:12:25] <Guest969>	 So your logon form is misleading: it shows the button with MediaWiki.org logo and with the name "mediawiki.org" !!!
[18:13:04] <Guest969>	 you should fix this button !
[18:13:16] <Sario>	 It shows the MediaWiki icon because we use MediaWiki software
[18:13:36] <Sario>	 Clicking that button takes you the Miraheze Meta wiki
[18:14:46] <Guest969>	 and it shows not just the logo, but the domain name. for showing that the site usses some sofwqr, but it just in a bottom banner (with privacy info, legal contact, copuyright and so on). NOT on the logon button!
[18:15:10] <MacFan4000>	 We also can't change the logo without modifying phabricator itself
[18:15:13] <Sario>	 Nope, it says "MediaWiki", not a domain. Again, that's because we use MediaWiki
[18:16:20] <Sario>	 Also, if you look again, you'll notice that it's the old MediaWiki logo, not the one currently used by WMF projects
[18:17:39] <Guest969>	 For GitHub (a downname) you show "GitHub" and the GitHub logo (this button does not work): it wants to go visting GitHub. You dhsould display on that button the Miraheze logo and the name "Miraheze Meta"
[18:18:13] <MacFan4000>	 14:15 <+MacFan4000> We also can't change the logo without modifying phabricator itself
[18:18:25] <Guest969>	 nothing prohibits adding addition icons for the softwares or service providers you use
[18:18:49] <Guest969>	 Did you request a patch to Phabricator so that you can tune that button?
[18:19:00] <MacFan4000>	 I'm not aware of any other way to do it
[18:19:00] <Sario>	 And again, if you actually *click* the button, you are brought to MH Meta. 
[18:19:31] <MacFan4000>	 and no, the upstream is very restricted, and also doesn't maintain it anymore
[18:19:40] <Guest969>	 Note that before coming here I had repeatedly used that button, and it did not work even if I was already registeed in MH
[18:19:54] <raidarr>	 I'd like to see how that login system changed as it's always been a source of confusion
[18:20:08] <raidarr>	 *-how
[18:20:43] <Guest969>	 Phabricator is supposed to be opensourced and reusable. I don't see why they would reject tuning that misleading button for your own use on your own farm
[18:21:13] <Guest969>	 A logon screren must be extremely clear about where people are conencting to
[18:21:48] <MacFan4000>	 it simply isn't going to be changed anytime soon
[18:22:31] <Guest969>	 If you don't find a solution for that, your site will be soon treated just as if it was phishing, so your new vistors may refuse to trust you
[18:22:37] <Sario>	 This is the first I've personally heard of anyone having issues logging into Phab
[18:23:07] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <raidarr> I doubt that impact is going to happen at any large scale, but I do agree with the argument - I never liked how phabricator's login worked and if there's any chance of adjusting it I'd like to see that followed through
[18:23:17] <Guest969>	 May be other usres have not botthered trying to use your Phab.
[18:23:46] <Guest969>	 I'm experienced since many yers with wikis, that's the first time I could solve problems myself and saw such misleading info
[18:23:50] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <raidarr> it's one of a few things that make its usability iffy as an 'offsource' to meta for issues of a broad scale
[18:24:48] <Guest969>	 you can still use a local patch from the opensourced software your receive, you can block any attempt to update that button you've tuned locally.
[18:25:39] <Guest969>	 That's exactly like translations made in translatewiki.net: each wiki can block selective messages to tune them as they need
[18:26:26] <Guest969>	 And it's in the philosophy of opensource software: everything should be patchable (and you're explcitly allowed to do that, by the licence)
[18:26:29] <Sario>	 MH Phab has over 3100 users, so logging in can't be that hard
[18:27:16] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <raidarr> well we do like to bring up how we have 100k+ iirc
[18:27:29] <Guest969>	 It was hard because of the MH.Phab server "hiccup" which failed mutliple times after many attempts
[18:27:46] <Guest969>	 I think that MH.PHab lags bnehind with its caches
[18:28:05] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <raidarr> server hiccup will happen, it's the presentation of the login that's really iffy and ought to be streamlined
[18:28:05] <Sario>	 Ok, that's a legit issue.
[18:28:09] <Guest969>	 so we need some delay after we have created an ccount on MH so that MH.PHab can detect it
[18:31:03] <Guest969>	 Note that I was concerned because I have made many translation in TWN, including for a new messages group added today: there was a typo in English adn I could not report it because my connection from TWN drove me to MH.Phab. It failed, so I visited MH to create an account on MH.Meta. Then retried ton MH.Phab and it did not work even hours later.
[18:31:09] <Reception123>	 well I think it's rare for someone to create an account and then directly make a phab one
[18:31:30] <ApexAgunomu>	 I have seen your message Raidarr and I understand
[18:31:37] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <raidarr> we'll see
[18:31:54] <Reception123>	 ApexAgunomu: You've told us so many times that you'll stop. Unfortunately, we won't believe it until we see it
[18:32:00] <Reception123>	 No. More. Alternate. Accounts.
[18:32:06] <ApexAgunomu>	 Okay
[18:32:17] <Guest969>	 OK now you've seen my small comments... these are things to get fixed and tracked in your MH.Phab task.
[18:32:20] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <raidarr> I'd have been less bothered if it wasn't also hooked up with the meta vandalism stunt
[18:32:34] <Reception123>	 yeah... that's very disappointing 
[18:32:53] <ApexAgunomu>	 That was definitely a bad move on my part
[18:33:07] <Reception123>	 That should've been obvious from the start
[18:33:10] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <raidarr> yes well, now we're just going to see, and whatever happens will be the natural consequence
[18:33:36] <ApexAgunomu>	 Pkay
[18:33:42] <Guest969>	 anyway, i can say you that I compelted the French translation of the new module for MH on TWN.
[18:33:57] <ApexAgunomu>	 I meant okay
[18:33:59] <Guest969>	 two modules in fact
[18:34:14] <mhbridgebot>	 [discord] <raidarr> appreciated and noted re: contributions, apologies for the trouble with phabricator
[18:34:20] <Guest969>	 TWN is once again 10% translated to French
[18:34:23] <Guest969>	 100%
[18:36:55] <Guest969>	 I had reportd a bug/question on WM.PHab about your new "Miraheze ErrorPages" module (the mrkup format of hyperlinks, which is different from Mediawiki)
[18:37:55] <Guest969>	 Where can we try the new "Miraheze ErrorPages" with these messages (supposed to be rendered soon for 404 errors)?
[18:39:11] <Guest969>	 There's still an English typo in one English source message for the 2nd new module "Miraheze ImportDump"
[18:39:36] <Guest969>	 "to frequent" instead of "too frequent"
[18:39:53] <Guest969>	 That's what I initially wanted to report.
[18:40:38] <Guest969>	 Note also that all other translation modules for Miraheze in TWN drive us to WM.Phab, not MH.Phab to report these issues: this shouldbe fixed with TWN admins.
[18:41:44] <Guest969>	 So this also adds to the confusion between WM.Phab and MH.Phab for the same overall translation project for Miraheze
[18:43:55] <Guest969>	 Note that I speaking about this: https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:Miraheze
[18:43:55] <MirahezeBot>	 [url] Translating:Miraheze - translatewiki.net | translatewiki.net
[18:44:17] <Guest969>	 I have also update that page to add the 2 new message groups added this morning
[22:41:45] <Naleksuh>	 Sario : I also had that issue when I started out, but that was over 2 years ago
[22:42:01] <Naleksuh>	 I just asked and someone told me "oh, MediaWiki takes you to a Miraheze account" and that was the end of that
[22:43:16] <Sario>	 Yeah, I don't know why they were so stuck on the button image
[23:01:49] <Naleksuh>	 Going to try to push harder on proxy blocking both because of CAPTCHAs and because of a certain person whose name starts with a and ends with u
[23:01:56] <Naleksuh>	 Johnlewis Voidwalker Raidarr See here https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Stewards%27_noticeboard#Proxy_blocking