[00:10:39] [discord] i made a quick guide for people trying to figure out masseditregex for the first time: https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/User:Dimpizzy/MassEditRegex_Guide [00:10:40] [url] User:Dimpizzy/MassEditRegex Guide - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [00:12:30] [discord] Well... technically there is an upper limit on namespace count... The dbvalue for namespace is stored as an INT, which has a maximum upper bound of 2,147,483,647 [00:13:28] [discord] I don't know what happens if you exceed that (or if there are earlier in-built limitations) but it'll definitely be some kind of error. [00:19:34] [discord] Hello, [00:19:34] [discord] Is this common issue with auth command? [00:19:35] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1064700473208229978/image.png [00:20:03] [discord] try again in a bit, might be busy [00:20:56] [discord] yea, it went through with some delay. [00:21:24] [discord] this might be some relevant information for that guide [00:21:25] [url] Discord | discord.com [00:22:17] [discord] oh yeah characters that need escaping might trip people up, ill add that, thanks [00:23:14] [discord] yes that happens a lot [00:32:01] [discord] Welcome @soulthunk! You are already authenticated to User:Souliousery, nothing further is required. [00:32:17] [discord] sup [00:36:44] [discord] updated [00:42:52] [discord] i need to know, was i incorrect as tagging this for deletion as out of scope and not what user pages are for https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/User:Reymundo_Hernandez [00:42:53] [url] User:Reymundo Hernandez - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [00:42:59] [discord] someone seems to have written an encyclopedic article in their user space [00:44:19] [discord] thats weird. i doubt it, but maybe the user really is that person [00:45:04] [discord] if it was its written in the wrong tense [00:45:22] [discord] true [00:46:25] [discord] it looks like they're requesting a wiki to be about that person [00:47:06] [discord] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:RequestWikiQueue/29284 [00:47:08] [url] Wiki requests queue - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [00:47:08] [discord] in that case, the article needs to go on their wiki [00:47:09] [discord] not on meta [00:47:14] [discord] yeah [00:51:13] [discord] They also need to give more scope. A single-person wiki topic *about* a person is generally not approved. If it covers their works in greater depth, that can be approvable [00:51:54] [discord] yea [00:58:36] [discord] After several more rounds of polish I might start linking this in request responses... [00:58:37] [discord] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/User:NotAracham/Requesting_a_Wiki [00:58:38] [url] User:NotAracham/Requesting a Wiki - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [00:58:38] [discord] [00:58:39] [discord] There's been plenty of folks with great ideas that just don't *quite* have the right frame of reference to write an approvable request. 😦 [01:00:22] [discord] hmm yea [01:06:08] [discord] looks like you're doing a good job w/ your guides [01:06:10] [discord] very happy about that [01:06:24] [discord] hopefully [01:06:25] [discord] they will help [01:06:29] [discord] lots of people [01:11:14] [discord] Lol "Random baking puns" got a question mark [01:11:22] [discord] lmao [01:11:57] [discord] It's not a good guide without a little bit of fun mixed in. 😄 [01:13:53] [discord] Thanks, that's nice to hear, it's part of the same three realizations I had that got me started with wiki-stuff in the first place: [01:13:54] [discord] [01:13:56] [discord] 1. Dang, there's no good guides on how to do this, it should be simple! [01:13:57] [discord] 2. Why hasn't anyone done this? Oh wait, I could do this. [01:13:58] [discord] 3. If I can do this, why don't I get started? [01:14:00] [discord] [01:14:01] [discord] Hopefully by the end of this it'll be of use to a good few folks. [01:14:15] [discord] ye [01:14:19] [discord] thats good [01:20:06] [discord] I got a custom domain set up and now the root comprehensibleinput.miraheze.org redirects to the new domain, but going to pages on the old domain doesnt redirect, is that normal? [01:20:35] [discord] hmm [01:20:36] Your guide has misinformation in it [01:20:36] [discord] good question [01:20:46] [discord] bleach cures covid-19 [01:20:50] "Wiki Creators often decline requests when there are changes or clarifications needed for the request to proceed. " [01:20:58] [discord] Let's convert that complaint into a suggestion: What did you spot? [01:21:04] ^ This has not been standard practice for about a year [01:21:53] [discord] That was the standard practice communicated to me when I joined the WC team in early November, I and the others have largely been operating on this practice. [01:22:08] Which others? [01:22:31] The declined status was used for asking for changes before the "on hold" status was made. It was released in early 2022 and now declined should only be used for requests that are actually declined [01:22:52] I personally didn't use decline for anything but declining even before on hold existed (I would comment). But there's DEFINITELY no reason to do that now [01:23:42] [discord] hmm [01:23:44] [discord] thats odd [01:26:45] [discord] Looking through the farmer log, it's what every other WC has been doing in the overwhelming majority of cases where the more details needed template applies. [01:27:16] [discord] (Did that as a self-check courtesy, as there's every possibility I could have been incorrect) [01:27:52] [discord] Not saying that we shouldn't adjust course (I find it odd myself to have the first action be a decline), but I was operating by the overwhelming consensus behavior [01:28:09] Why?????? [01:28:10] [discord] And wrote the guide according to prevailing behavior. [01:28:21] I asked so hard for an on hold status and everyone is just wasting it???? [01:28:26] Guys, THIS IS WHAT ITS SUPPOSED TO BE USED FOR [01:29:48] [discord] hmm [01:29:49] [discord] yea [01:29:52] [discord] lets use on hold [01:32:26] [discord] Either way, not sure general chat is the best forum to be committing policy/best practice decisions, but a valid point we should come to consensus on within the WC group. [01:32:47] [discord] *committing and debating changes to [01:32:51] [discord] yea [01:32:52] [discord] anyway [01:33:07] [discord] LMAO i just found this block reason and im just trying to imagine what people would think reading his posts https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Blubabluba9990 [01:33:08] [url] User contributions for Blubabluba9990 - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [01:33:56] [discord] That particular situation is best left in the history pile. 🙂 [01:34:29] Colleiflower are you a wiki creator? [01:34:38] You and NotAracham can join #miraheze-wikicreators [01:35:01] [discord] uh [01:35:02] [discord] no [01:35:07] [discord] i have like 8 edits on meta [01:35:32] [discord] actually i have 21 [01:35:33] [discord] but [01:35:34] [discord] They are not, but that actually raises a good point... we probably should look into relaying the IRC WC channel with the Discord WC channel [01:35:38] [discord] im not going to be ready to be a wiki creator any time soon [01:35:54] [discord] because [01:35:55] [discord] requirements [01:35:59] [discord] The IRC WC channel is public though [01:36:01] I didn't know there was a "Discord WC channel" at all [01:36:05] [discord] Ah, fair point [01:36:09] [discord] finally agent is back [01:36:12] [discord] # [01:36:15] [discord] fix this [01:36:17] [discord] or someone do [01:36:21] [discord] the newest post there i mean [01:36:21] [discord] I'll look at it [01:36:24] [discord] alright got it [01:36:33] @Agent The IRC channel used to be private but it was made public. The subject of Discord didn't come up at the time [01:36:38] [discord] another person lost perms and its been weeks and still not fixed [01:37:21] [discord] It'd probably be a good idea to relay the channels again if the IRC WC channel is made private once more as we do deal with more sensitive topics in there [01:37:38] I had no idea it even existed [01:37:43] Why does noone tell me shit? [01:38:11] [discord] too much work [01:38:12] [discord] Most WCs are on Discord, I guess the fact that one is on IRC exclusively gets overlooked [01:38:51] But there was a discussion about the wiki creators IRC channel [01:38:57] You'd think the Discord channel would have come up ever during that time [01:39:15] [discord] It was created a while after that discussion [01:39:23] Oh [01:39:30] OK fine, let us bridge it then [01:39:53] Actually wait, there are two aren't there? [01:41:43] [discord] Hmm? [01:42:04] When the channel was made public I made a private backup [01:42:20] Agent would you say the Discord channel is more active than the IRC one? If so I would support bridging it [01:42:28] [discord] Much more active [01:42:38] OK then [01:43:35] [discord] On that topic, the WC channel's ownership should probably be transfered over to a Steward [01:45:20] This discussion was has once before and agreed it was fine how it was [01:45:28] Also, the "steward" to transfer to was dmehus and where did that get us [01:45:43] [discord] Dmehus was a controversial figure from the start [01:45:59] I guess so [01:46:01] [discord] If you feel better, you can give ownership to John, Void, or Reception [01:46:03] But there is already a new dmehus [01:46:14] [discord] And who would that be? [01:46:18] I noticed recently that the latest miraheze meeting was closed by a 3 month old account [01:47:00] [discord] ah [01:47:14] [discord] Well, unlike Dmehus, NotAracham doesn't seem to want hats [01:47:34] [discord] I'm not a fan, they make my head too warm. [01:51:18] I have asked in #miraheze-wikicreators if anyone minds [01:51:24] Is there an advantage to a public one ? [01:58:58] [discord] To answer credentialing concerns seriously re: me closing meetings, I was elected as a moderator on the Discord side by community vote before taking on that task in any real way. [01:58:58] [discord] [01:59:00] [discord] I wouldn't have been comfortable doing so (even though I had volunteered as a backup meeting host when Agent's away) without that having been successful. [02:05:34] Yes, and so was dmehus [02:09:12] Dmehus never was an elected Moderator on Discord they inherited permissions from Steward when it was like that, but when Moderators became a thing they lost moderation. NotAracham has not been like Dmehus, doesn't want additional hats like that. [02:14:01] NotAracham is nothing like what happened with Dmehus. If they suddenly ran for Steward it would be another matter, but I do not believe that would ever happen, at least not this early, probably not for a long time. We are not eager to repeat past mistakes. [03:14:05] [discord] i seriously lack context [03:14:30] [discord] but from what i can tell [03:14:46] [discord] naleksuh is accusing notaracham of hat collecting [03:14:51] [discord] i find that both harsh and incorrect [03:19:09] [discord] i also havee no idea who the hell dmehus is [03:21:12] [discord] Sounds like some fun drama [03:21:38] [discord] A former Steward who got revoked following a very dramatic revocation request [03:23:12] [discord] I assume "hats" refers to multiple roles on MH. Why would notaracham becoming a steward be bad for his wiki creator role? [03:23:39] [discord] Hat collection is the issue. Hat collection is when you want lots of roles but for no reason other than inflating your ego [03:23:50] [discord] makes sense [03:23:53] [discord] Holding multiple roles is fine if you actually want to be helpful [03:24:05] [discord] Ah i see [03:25:04] [discord] ah i just checked the post that i found in his user rights log lmao [03:25:31] [discord] If you check [[Requests for Stewardship]], you'll find the full drama [03:25:31] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_Stewardship [03:25:32] [discord] [03:25:33] [url] Requests for Stewardship - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [03:25:43] [discord] It's at the very top of the page [03:25:49] [discord] I think I've pretty clearly established my desire to be helpful, but I've also pretty clearly established that I already have a scarcity of hours on the day. 🤣 [03:26:07] [discord] yea [03:26:08] [discord] anyway brb [03:26:20] [discord] NotAracham is a very valuable team player even if he doesn't hold many hats [03:27:34] [discord] Wikipedia has a good article on the topic, to clarify what it is and isn't [03:27:35] [discord] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Hat_collecting [03:27:36] [wikipedia] Wikipedia:Hat collecting | "Hat collecting is the process of gaining rights on Wikipedia (and other wikis) just to show off or to boost one's ego, rather than because you have any actual use for them. Voters in the request for adminship process need to decide whether or not the user requesting adminship actually has a use for those rights or is simply "hat collecting". This is why adminship candidates should have some […]" [03:27:42] [discord] He's definitely a very welcoming presence on discord [03:28:16] [discord] I *think* the term may have originated there, but I'm not positive [03:28:50] [discord] Hat collecting, yes [03:30:31] [discord] yeah, a bit late but pitching in here, @NotAracham is absolutely not hat collecting, from what i can tell [03:30:49] to be clear Dmehus wasn't actually revoked, rather it was a self-resignation because there was a revocation request with the consensus heavily in favor of revocation [03:31:15] [discord] their actions seem to be genuine [03:31:37] [discord] and i understand the need to not have another dmehus [03:31:47] [discord] but notaracham isn’t dmehus [03:31:57] [discord] [[w:WP:AGF]] [03:31:57] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:AGF [03:31:57] [discord] [03:33:00] [discord] from a technicality standpoint yes, but had the rights remained for a day or two longer it would’ve been gone [03:34:15] [discord] Also would suggest that the revocation topic is another one best left to history, continuing to unearth it isn't fair to that user. [03:34:50] [discord] uhhh considering the user’s actions i would disagree [03:35:14] [discord] like LawrencePrairies, they are an example of what *not* to do on miraheze [03:35:36] they have been largely inactive, so unless they read the channel logs they aren't actually seeing this conversation [03:35:42] [discord] their actions were wrong, i’m not saying anything about them as a person at all, i know they are a good person actually [03:35:55] [discord] i’m just talking about their actions [03:36:42] [discord] Sure, but it's not relevant here. People are different people, unless I'm secretly a golem piloted by three Dmehuses in a trenchcoat. [03:37:06] [discord] I could it as a revocation. It's like being fired and saying you quit instead [03:37:21] [discord] pretty much [03:37:30] [discord] or nixon about to be convicted before the senate [03:37:33] [discord] and resigning before [03:38:18] [discord] Definitely. If we rehash the drama from then, we won't ever stop [03:38:20] [discord] Dear lord was his VP sketchy as hell too for totally different reasons. But that's an off-topic conversation. [03:38:32] [discord] maybe not relevant but definitely fair [03:38:36] [discord] but yeah it can be dropped [03:38:42] [discord] VP? [03:38:55] Vice president [03:38:56] [discord] Friggin Agnew accepting bags o cash in the WH basement. What a weirdo. [03:39:26] [discord] ah yeah that’s what i thought but didn’t know what VP doug had [03:39:32] [discord] then i remembered nixon lol [03:39:52] [discord] Vice Stewards [03:39:53] [discord] lol [03:40:02] [discord] Global Sysops basically [03:42:34] [discord] true [03:43:52] [discord] lmao [03:48:30] [discord] naleksuh is accusing notaracham of hat collecting [03:48:31] 7:14:51 PM [discord] i find that both harsh and incorrect [03:48:37] Yes, I also find your accusation about me harsh and incorrect [03:48:44] Glad we both agree I never said that [03:51:22] [discord] oh [03:51:36] [discord] i have no idea what you're saying then [03:53:47] [discord] Probably best to call it a day on this topic too, then. [03:53:47] [discord] [03:53:48] [discord] While the staunch endorsements are great and all, I'd prefer to get back to wiki stuff. 🙂 [03:54:00] [discord] alright got it [03:54:00] "staunch endorsements"? [04:00:01] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> Can offtopic stuff (both current conversations and future conversations) please be moved to #ID:615786602454581249 on Discord or #miraheze-offtopic on IRC? [04:00:02] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> [04:00:03] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> If discussions that can bring drama, like the whole revocation topic, I'd prefer that be discussed in the offtopic area also. I typically don't mind some offtopic general conversations here, and dont usually try to immediately shut them down, but when it becomes truly unconstructive (as this seems to be), it becomes an issue, and I'd prefer that take place offtopic if it must at all. [04:00:31] [discord] It would be wiser to discontinue the entire topic imo [04:06:50] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> It would be, but I don't think we should force that, I believe in discretion, if it becomes an issue that seriously plagues us with drama, or that increases moderation difficulty we shut it down, but if it is unconstructive or unnecessary conversations, I believe that can in offtopic if the conversations **must** continue, however I would of course prefer it cease entirely. [04:06:51] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> [04:06:52] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> I don't want to turn this into a Authoritarianism either. Saying it like that is probably over the top, as it wouldn't be like, but the point I mean is given, we do have a certain amount of leniency and personal discretion given. [04:08:28] [discord] i think it would be wiser to give me more primos in genshin [04:15:44] [discord] https://static.miraheze.org/intercriaturaswiki/c/c9/J._Paul_Getty_Ms._100_Bestiario_de_Northumberland_folio_41r.jpg [04:15:51] [discord] Unauthorized [04:15:52] [discord] This server could not verify that you are authorized to access the document you requested. [04:17:09] we are aware, and will try and get this fixed ASAP [04:17:17] it is an issue with swift [04:23:27] [discord] i am able to access it now [04:24:36] [discord] "Get this user 777 draws!" [04:27:14] [discord] lmao [04:31:13] [discord] Welcome @Vardox! If you would like to authenticate (validate) your Miraheze account, please type [04:36:44] MacFan4000 Can you add WikiAuthBot to the bridge blacklist [04:37:08] Also what on earth is "" supposed to be [04:37:18] Is this Discord's stupid slash commands update [04:37:36] [discord] Discord uses slash commands now, yes. /auth is short for authenticate, or authentication [04:38:07] I could open a PR but i am not Fossbots staff so couldn't actually deploy [04:38:18] [discord] ok [04:38:21] [discord] thats a you problm [04:38:49] though probobly does make sense to add it to the ignore list [04:39:28] [discord] RhinosF1 can probably tackle this when they're back online in a few hours. [04:39:35] [discord] kk [04:40:04] it has my support as an IRC platform moderator, but probably should get support from another as well [04:42:17] I thought you were Fossbots staff [04:42:41] though it is my belief that Fossbots should not be running any bots in the Miraheze namespace [04:43:59] [discord] Fair point, adding my +1 from the discord side of things, but discord mod != IRC mod. [04:43:59] [discord] [04:44:01] [discord] We actually had the authbot welcome text moved to standalone channel during the November/December outages given the crazy join volumes, I think there's a reasonable argument to move it back. [04:44:02] [discord] [04:44:03] [discord] Most servers have a dedicated join/depart channel for this reason. [04:44:31] [discord] yea [04:45:27] Naleksuh: I was, but I resigned, as I just couldn't devote time to it anymore [04:46:04] Fine, I will make a PR [04:51:42] [discord] have fun [04:51:55] I already did make it [04:52:07] It is more complicated than I remember. GitHub must have added extra steps [04:57:34] [discord] before the mediawiki upgrade [04:57:47] [discord] im going to make a database dump for the genshin wiki [04:57:54] [discord] to back it up [04:58:09] [discord] to make sure that there isnt another db141 incident [05:04:37] @NotAracham What is the channel ID for the wiki creators channel on Discord [05:06:02] [discord] my theory was correct [05:06:03] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1064772564821495940/image.png [05:06:35] [discord] the hoyodex wiki and genshin wiki both have these on the footer of our main page (hoyodex's main page is unprotected and so far they've raised no objections to me changing it) [05:06:35] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1064772703682302022/image.png [05:06:40] [discord] and it's gotten both of us [05:06:42] [discord] some new visitors [05:07:04] [discord] i think that same idea might help other wikis as well [05:21:06] [discord] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:RequestWikiQueue/29287 there is already a test wiki 😐 [05:21:07] [url] Wiki requests queue - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [05:21:57] [discord] also is it possible [05:22:11] [discord] to get only admins to have permission to see Special:Analytics [05:25:42] [discord] :DerpDawwurp: [05:27:39] [discord] Sorry, at a dinner and on mobile so I'll be a bit delayed. [05:27:40] [discord] [05:27:41] [discord] I'm a bit leery to start moving forward on bridges given the public/private stuff raised by agent before other folks are back online and have a chance to weigh in, maybe let's pause on that for the WC channel until then. [05:27:58] [discord] *status + channel ownership [05:29:23] [discord] apparently wikimedia currently refuses to mention miraheze on their list of alternative outlets page [05:29:35] [discord] because one of the miraheze staff members is banned by the wikimedia foundations [05:29:36] [discord] This is a request where we need a bit of clarity, they could be referring to their own personal code test library for a non-wiki project. But probably, let's stop putting specific wiki requests in general, don't want to shame folks who haven't gotten it right on the first try. [05:29:44] [discord] thing is... [05:29:57] [discord] > A wiki (/ˈwɪki/ (listen) WIK-ee) is an online hypertext publication collaboratively edited and managed by its own audience, using a web browser. [05:29:58] [discord] - Wikipedai [05:30:14] [discord] if the wikimedia foundation has the final say on everything and someone's existence has to be wiped out because the foundation doesnt like it [05:30:16] [discord] by definition [05:30:18] [discord] it's no longer a wiki [05:30:21] [discord] Which page? [05:30:32] [discord] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Alternative_outlets [05:30:32] [wikipedia] Wikipedia:Alternative outlets | "When content (text, pages, images, etc.) is deleted, various policies and guidelines such as "What Wikipedia is not", notability, verifiability and our prohibition on original research are often cited as reasons the material does not belong here, in an encyclopedia, and rightly so. Unfortunately, this is not particularly helpful or calming to the person(s) who put in time and effort to […]" [05:30:36] [discord] Ah [05:31:22] [discord] yes [05:31:32] [discord] yea sorry about that [05:32:38] [discord] Their official excuse is that we don't have a Wikipedia page [05:32:41] [discord] which is fair [05:32:56] [discord] ah [05:32:57] [discord] thats fair [05:33:03] [discord] Once we have one, it'll be hard to deny us a mention [05:33:06] [discord] No worries, intent didn't come across as bad, but there's less-charitable reads that none of us need to be on the table. Erring on side of caution is never bad. [05:33:43] [discord] on one of their forums (forgot which one but i think its that one for new editors or something) they said it was removed because he's ToU banned [05:33:50] [discord] in the edit summaries they also said removed because ToU ban [05:33:53] [discord] but yeah [05:33:58] [discord] Long story on that'n [05:33:59] [discord] hopefully we get a WP page eventually [05:34:00] [discord] that's not really a reason to remove it though [05:34:05] [discord] i know [05:34:12] [discord] There's a small group of extreme Wikimedians who don't like us due to that [05:34:15] [discord] yes [05:34:21] [discord] They're very faithful to San Francisco [05:34:29] [discord] if they think a wiki is controlled by a central organization [05:34:32] [discord] they don't know the definition of a wiki [05:34:47] [discord] if the WMF can just remove everything about someone arbitrarily it's hardly a wiki anymore [05:35:14] [discord] I guess I understand them but it's sad that due to one person, they'll deny the existence of a farm which hosts hundreds of thousands of users, thousands of wikis, and with serves over a billion pageviews per year [05:35:22] [discord] i think if miraheze gets some coverage in reliable sources it could help [05:35:28] [discord] Definitely [05:35:31] [discord] yeah [05:35:34] [discord] ye [05:35:45] [discord] We're almost there [05:35:46] [discord] the most notable thing on fandom's page is, again, its controversies .-. [05:35:50] [discord] indeed [05:35:59] @Agent I've been told there is a high likelihood we will never have a Wikipedia page again. [05:36:20] [discord] CosmicAlpha|AWAY: any specific reasons cited? [05:36:28] [discord] apart from reliable sources and whatnot [05:37:07] [discord] i just found something [05:37:09] [discord] funny [05:37:16] [discord] so fandom was nominated for deletion on wikipedia [05:37:17] [discord] in 2018 [05:37:19] [discord] as non-notable [05:37:22] [discord] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Wikia_(2nd_nomination) i don't oppose the keep [05:37:23] [wikipedia] Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wikia (2nd nomination) | "" [05:37:27] Agent: Secondary sources, they said we'd need 10-15 other reputable sources, which we haven't had in the years we've existed. [05:37:29] [discord] but... [05:37:30] [discord] > Speedy keep. Article is well-sourced and clearly passes WP:WEB. (Also, I note that I'm a former Wikia employee and am disclosing that COI.) --Sykes83 (talk) 23:20, 8 February 2018 (UTC) [05:37:46] [discord] people with a heavy COI aren't meant to be directly voting afaik [05:37:49] [discord] This just put in mind an image of a trolley-based cargo cult, and the stupid tangents that this thought is creating are very good. [05:38:08] [discord] that doesn't mean we won't ever obtain those [05:38:20] [discord] CosmicAlpha|AWAY: that's so dumb [05:38:28] [discord] a lot of nonprofits had to be around for years to decades to get the same notability that for-profits did in years or less [05:38:36] [discord] I feel like they purposefully put those obstacles in front of us [05:38:45] [discord] we don't have a full-time, paid, professional SEO or PR team [05:38:49] I've also been hinted that even if we do reach that because of some ToU issue they'll likely still reject it. [05:38:58] [discord] so we're obviously going to grow slower than fanodm [05:39:02] [discord] now that'd be censorship [05:39:04] [discord] that's... terrible [05:39:08] [discord] that's not a wiki [05:39:23] [discord] how can SanFan dictate the mere mention of something? [05:39:45] [discord] That's very annoying [05:39:46] [discord] We're also a competitor. As dumb as it is (and technically against ToS), we're technically the only other big game remaining in town. [05:40:21] [discord] this has been an ongoing problem with the foundation [05:40:29] [discord] i should try to find that "wikipedia has cancer" essay [05:40:30] [discord] I'd get maybe not linking to Meta or something but an outright denial of s page would be so ridiculous [05:40:44] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> All we need is one WP admin to show some courtesy and approve it, well theyd like discuss it amongst themselves first though, but if we get it and someone doesn't like it, it'll harder to find a reason to kick it off again also. [05:41:07] [discord] it's against their ToS to do anything that's illegal in the US, but they still have tons of pages about convicted felons, and businesses run by them. [05:41:10] [discord] I really hope John appeals his office action someday [05:41:38] [discord] but, for obvious reasons, these pages aren't deleted as ToS violations [05:41:43] @Agent You cannot appeal them [05:41:52] [discord] maybe John did something wrong, maybe he didn't, but that doesn't mean Miraheze as an organization is terrible [05:41:55] [discord] Naleksuh: you can actually, as of recently at least [05:41:58] [discord] Well, writing *about* illegality isn't explicitly disallowed, giving a roadmap to or creating a page in service of illegal acts is. [05:42:03] Since when [05:42:06] [discord] i know [05:42:08] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> Naleksuh: You can now, you couldn't back then. [05:42:09] [discord] Like last year I think [05:42:46] [discord] Now that'll be hard [05:42:54] It's only an action review really [05:42:56] Not a real appeal [05:43:12] Also that AFD was literally just [[WP:ITSNOTABLE]] [05:43:12] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/WP:ITSNOTABLE [05:43:37] [discord] yea i know [05:43:38] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> I think John actually tried to appeal once, but because there was no policy it was for obvious reasons rejected. Chances of a successful appeal now are slim. [05:43:40] [discord] [05:43:40] [url] Office actions - Meta | meta.wikimedia.org [05:43:57] [discord] Slim is better than none! [05:44:16] [discord] > Not all office actions can be appealed; some are final and non-reversible, and some have an expiry date. With regards to office actions undertaken around investigations into the behavior of specific users, the volunteer Interim Trust & Safety Case Review Committee has been formed to review appeals of eligible Trust & Safety office actions until a permanent process is created through the Universal Code of Conduct Co [05:44:18] [discord] thats from what agent quoted [05:44:20] [discord] its a mess [05:44:25] As I said before, "It's only an action review really. Not a real appeal" [05:44:48] [discord] i am seriously perturbed with our society if a wikipedia article can seriously shape the public's perception towards something [05:45:01] [discord] They should rename the section then [05:45:17] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> they're meant to be final, it is very hard to appeal something like that. [05:45:26] [discord] The idea that theoretically speaking the most visited website in the world wouldn't be notable enough for a WP page if it didn't win a WP-recognized award or had works published about it is extremely funny to me [05:45:26] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1064782479610871868/Screenshot_20230117-024329_Chrome.jpg [05:45:32] So was the ApexAgunomu global ban but how many RFCs have there been? [05:46:04] @Colleiflower It used to be used for Twitter verification back before you could just buy it [05:46:29] Community bans are entirely different. [05:47:18] Actually they're not [05:47:25] Just like WMF bans, they're supposed to be review-only, not appeal [05:47:35] They have reviews that are calls appeals but no real appeals [05:47:39] [discord] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Wikipedia_has_Cancer [05:47:40] [wikipedia] User:Guy Macon/Wikipedia has Cancer | "Alternative title: Just because you have some money, that doesn't mean that you have to spend it.In biology, the hallmarks of an aggressive cancer include limitless multiplication of ordinarily beneficial cells, even when the body signals that further multiplication is no longer needed. The Wikipedia page on the wheat and chessboard problem explains that nothing can keep growing […]" [05:47:43] [discord] there we go [05:48:01] [discord] > [irc] @Colleiflower It used to be used for Twitter verification back before you could just buy it [05:48:02] [discord] i was aware of that [05:48:22] [discord] when i was investigating some shady dealing on blackhatworld w/ twitter employees taking bribes to verify accounts [05:48:30] [discord] which obviously violates employment agreements [05:48:38] [discord] i got bored and tried to do osint to identify them [05:48:46] [discord] (didnt work obvious reasons and story for another day) [05:49:37] Hello collei! If you have any questions, feel free to ask and someone should answer soon. [05:49:42] i am on irc now [05:49:47] [discord] well [05:49:51] [discord] i always was on irc [05:49:51] Hi [05:50:04] [discord] (i.e., always since some hours ago) [05:50:16] but i decided to join the miraheze irc too [05:50:24] [discord] anyways time to test if message edits go through [05:50:29] they dont wtf [05:50:33] that'll cause some confusion [05:50:33] They don't anymore. [05:50:37] ye [05:50:44] But then you can send secret Discord-only messages [05:50:50] how do i get irc to not show my IP [05:50:59] i am obviously using protonvpn [05:51:00] We disabled it, as they send a new message to IRC for every edit, which spams it. [05:51:01] Register a nickname then request a cloak [05:51:08] i did the first one [05:51:10] [discord] The edits caused a lot of irc span from my understanding. [05:51:11] Or just keep using your VPN [05:51:13] and dont understand the 2nd one [05:51:20] Type : /join #libera-cloak [05:51:20] Naleksuh: you can also send secret messages from IRC that don't go to Discord. [05:51:21] will probably keep the vpn [05:51:40] [discord] makes sense [05:51:48] wtf replies dont go through either [05:51:49] annoyance [05:51:51] [discord] Yeah, edits were turned off because folks (myself included) were guilty of many , many edits. [05:51:52] [discord] [05:51:53] [discord] And each edit was conveyed as the whole dang message each time. [05:52:01] thats annoying [05:52:18] never realized how behind irc was until i used it [05:52:25] there is neither deletion nor editing here [05:53:01] It would be kinda nice if it was like the matrix edit, where MirahezeBot doesn't correct it either, but like [05:53:07] * but like this. [05:53:08] That's not being behind that's good [05:53:14] [discord] I just read about WP article situation, that's fucked up, good morning [05:53:21] Some IRC networks have shitty support for deletion and that's awful [05:53:23] > That's not being behind that's good [05:53:24] no it is bad [05:53:33] i want to just mass-delete and edit things [05:53:34] It's bad that people can't just take memory out of YOUR pc? [05:53:35] [discord] Indeed [05:53:50] obviously i cant reverse screenshots memories etc [05:53:51] Matrix edits don't send the whole message again, just correct the original part. [05:53:55] [discord] but well, maybe something will change down the line [05:54:00] [discord] in like 20 years [05:54:01] [discord] lol [05:54:03] And no, deletion and editing would mean some server is storing the messages [05:54:12] @Agent Freenode already has editing and deletion on IRC and it sucks [05:54:14] Good thing nobody using it [05:54:28] [discord] I was replying to Legroom actually [05:54:31] is there at least some kind of disappearing messages [05:54:42] [discord] I do see how it's annoying that replies don't pop up now for IRC users [05:54:46] >  [discord] I was replying to Legroom actually [05:54:46] yea reply context doesnt go through here [05:54:50] neither does deletion or editing [05:54:54] What are "disappearing messages" supposed to mean? [05:54:56] that is why i was silently opposed to irc bridging [05:55:03] but [05:55:05] im the only one with that concern [05:55:12] > What are "disappearing messages" supposed to mean? [05:55:12] So that Discord can just hold secrets conversations? [05:55:13] auto-deleting messages [05:55:15] [discord] The IRC channel was chronically dead before this though [05:55:16] like on signal [05:55:23] > So that Discord can just hold secrets conversations? [05:55:23] no [05:55:25] [discord] I guess will have to add pingless "@ user" at the end of message, in such cases [05:55:26] Messages that delete aftee so long? [05:55:27] so that you can delete them [05:55:35] > Messages that delete aftee so long? [05:55:36] yes that is disappearing messages [05:55:37] Stop suggesting deletion [05:55:39] [discord] If we want secret convos, let's use #support 😆 [05:55:44] > Stop suggesting deletion [05:55:44] no [05:55:48] > [discord] If we want secret convos, let's use #support 😆 [05:55:49] good idea [05:55:50] People who use IRC are people who don't want others taking memory out of their PC [05:55:57] > People who use IRC are people who don't want others taking memory out of their PC [05:55:57] i hope you are joking [05:56:00] OK, type `rm -rf /` in terminal then [05:56:01] [discord] I don’t really continually like it being insinuated that discord has secret conversations. :/ [05:56:12] > [discord] I guess will have to add pingless "@ user" at the end of message, in such cases [05:56:12] also good idea [05:56:24] > OK, type `rm -rf /` in terminal then [05:56:25] 'rm' is not recognized as an internal or external command, [05:56:25] operable program or batch file. [05:56:28] haha im on windows [05:56:32] I don't like the idea of deletions on IRC it goes away from the original purpose of IRC and why IRC is IRC. Its nice on other platforms, but I wouldn't like it on IRC. [05:56:35] Oh use del then [05:56:40] [discord] #ID:407537962553966603 was sort of 'secret' to IRC-only users [05:56:48] [discord] Don't actually type that on linux, it bad for compy [05:56:51] > I don't like the idea of deletions on IRC it goes away from the original purpose of IRC and why IRC is IRC. Its nice on other platforms, but I wouldn't like it on IRC. [05:56:51] what is the purpose of irc?? [05:57:03] To be able to chat without big tech or other people stopping you [05:57:17] Like imagine if I had a message stored on my device and you could just remotely erase it [05:57:25] > [discord] Don't actually type that on linux, it bad for compy [05:57:26] I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system [05:57:26] components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX. [05:57:27] Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project. [05:57:27] There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a [05:57:28] complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux! [05:57:28] That would make me no longer in control of my own hard drive [05:57:33] > Like imagine if I had a message stored on my device and you could just remotely erase it [05:57:33] um [05:57:37] its stored on irc [05:57:41] not on your device [05:57:44] [discord] :thonk: [05:57:45] Uh, no [05:57:48] i am not remotely deleting screenshots [05:57:52] OK so clearly you have no idea how IRC works [05:57:52] or your cache [05:58:01] take a screenshot of it if you want to preserve it [05:58:07] > OK so clearly you have no idea how IRC works [05:58:07] correct [05:58:13] [discord] Verging on the time to move this to off-topic. [05:58:23] I will also just store it directly, since you can't delete it [05:58:25] people keep telling me about all this complex decentralized messaging [05:58:25] [discord] Verging on incivility in general [05:58:32] [discord] :ThinkerMH: [05:58:42] but its too complicated [05:58:47] > [discord] Verging on incivility in general [05:58:47] @NotAracham But it's stored on IRC! [05:58:47] ok sorry [05:59:03] [discord] *freeware intensifies* [05:59:12] [discord] oml [05:59:19] [discord] not everything is about freedom software [05:59:30] [discord] take a screenshot of messages you dont want to lose [05:59:39] [discord] you dont own the messages you just own your copy of them [05:59:42] [discord] freedom software 🦅 [05:59:43] Or just don't lose them directly [05:59:50] [discord] i can delete them, keep a copy if you want them [05:59:52] Please move to #miraheze-offtopic, I am getting a bit tired of continuing offtopic conversations here. This channel is for ontopic and constructive discussions for users, not these type of conversations. [06:00:00] [discord] ok sorry [06:00:06] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> #ID:615786602454581249 for Discord [06:00:08] [discord] Sure but it’s not like miraheze policy was universally decided in the ‘secret’ discord channel and then applied to the site. [06:00:25] [discord] yeah [06:00:48] @CosmicAlpha What is the channel ID for wiki creators [06:01:00] [discord] 1337133713371337 [06:01:12] 1029629996664365126 [06:01:49] [discord] Perhaps that’s just my interpretation of the implications behind the world ‘secret’ in the statements though. Balancing multiple points of contact is just hard to do overall 🙂 [06:02:14] [discord] i dont want impossible to delete messages [06:02:20] [discord] but [06:02:29] [discord] i think this is not the offtopic channel [06:03:00] [discord] #ID:615786602454581249 for discord [06:03:31] i tested and messages dont stay here when i refresh [06:03:35] [discord] Out of curiosity, how does irc handles discords thread feature? [06:03:44] [discord] im guessing it doesnt [06:03:46] It doesn't. [06:03:47] [discord] but let me test [06:03:49] collei : Yeah, they don'tt [06:03:50] [discord] ok got it lmao [06:03:59] Again there is no "stored on IRC" [06:04:03] > collei : Yeah, they don'tt [06:04:03] that is good [06:04:07] Messages are either stored on your device or not stored [06:04:12] that counts as disappearing messages [06:04:15] You're the one who wanted a remote detonate button [06:04:21] no [06:04:21] No it doesn't because your client can still log them [06:04:26] yes [06:04:27] i know [06:04:44] [discord] guys [06:04:50] [discord] fellas [06:04:57] i mean that i want it to not keep what i wrote 10 years ago around when nobody needs to find it [06:04:59] [discord] barely miraheze related [06:05:00] [discord] homeslices, even [06:05:03] ok ok sorry [06:05:07] [discord] Gentlehumans and Mirahezians [06:05:07] ill stop using this for off topic [06:05:45] [discord] Aces, much appreciated. [06:06:09] [discord] is anyone available to check deletion request on meta rn [06:06:16] [discord] i nominated a page for deletion as out of scope [06:07:00] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> Sure [06:07:11] kk [06:12:08] The wiki creators channel is now fully private again per the previous discussion [06:12:11] Can someone merge the bridge request? [06:13:42] [discord] no [06:13:44] [discord] too much time [06:22:16] [discord] Collei, WC channel isn't a matter that impacts you. 🙂 [06:23:14] I thought they were a wiki creator? [06:23:31] [discord] No, they're a newer user [06:23:42] So is NotAracham but they have wiki creator [06:23:56] [discord] Well, NotAracham has been here for a few months [06:24:00] [discord] Collei for a few days [06:24:27] Well, I thought they were based on the previous conversation [06:24:31] Maybe I misunderstood what they were saying [06:25:55] [discord] They're a very enthusiastic new contributor. I like their gumption, but definitely not a WC just yet. 😄 [06:28:10] [discord] i know lmao [06:28:12] [discord] i was just joking [06:28:26] [discord] > [irc] I thought they were a wiki creator? [06:28:27] [discord] this is the 2nd time you've asked [06:28:32] [discord] no [06:28:34] [discord] im not a wiki creator [06:28:39] [discord] i have like 20 edits on meta [06:28:56] [discord] that's a lot for a less than a week old account tbh [06:29:00] [discord] the only significant thing i did was make 1 wiki and make some changes to another [06:29:09] [discord] well fair but im not going to be a wiki creator any time soon [06:29:09] Oh yeah? [06:29:11] [discord] Let's not rehash this again, point's made and I've got edits to commit. [06:29:13] Then explain this [06:29:15] https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/9KlezN6q/image.png [06:29:28] [discord] > Let's not rehash this again, point's made and I've got edits to commit. [06:29:28] [discord] yea fair [06:29:29] [discord] heh [06:29:30] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> huh [06:29:37] [discord] > [irc] https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/9KlezN6q/image.png [06:29:37] [discord] ? [06:29:41] [discord] uh [06:29:45] [discord] not sure what you're referring to [06:29:46] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> um.... [06:29:49] [discord] Cosmic ignoring my DMs XD [06:30:04] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> Sorry. I'll get to it soon. [06:30:08] [discord] Okie [06:30:10] [discord] It's 100% a joke, that's not even their on wiki username [06:30:15] [discord] lmao yea [06:30:21] [discord] thats what i thought too [06:30:29] Oh [06:30:32] [discord] my wiki username is Collei instead of Colleiflower [06:30:32] What is your onwiki username? [06:30:47] [discord] Where did that image come from in the first place lok [06:30:48] [discord] shouldve done your research first 😄 [06:30:52] [discord] *lol [06:30:56] [discord] devtools or something idgk [06:31:25] [discord] heres the actual log lmao [06:31:25] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1064794051888558100/image.png [06:31:27] [discord] Also I hate that editing messages is no good anymore (IRC forwards only the unedited message) [06:31:55] [discord] It's me, I gave them the wiki *twirls moustache like an old-timey arch-villain* [06:31:56] [discord] *receives [06:32:13] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> I know that, but what was the point of the joke here, and why after I have continued to say to stop the offtopic conversations, are they continuing??? This is still unconstructive offtopic. This is not going to make constructive and necessary conversations in this channel easy when this continues. [06:32:40] [discord] the channel topic is "Discussions and questions about Mraheze and MediaWiki." [06:32:50] [discord] even though its not a serious discussion, this is still a discussion about miraheze [06:32:59] Yeah [06:33:03] Also it doesn't say that on IRC [06:33:19] [discord] Topic is much different here on Discord [06:33:37] [discord] here we talk about GNU/Linux instead of linux [06:33:46] [discord] Linus [06:33:53] [discord] Linux Tech Tips [06:33:57] [discord] 🧠 [06:34:07] [discord] I'ma go eat a chip, y'all torvalds sort this out amongst yourselves. [06:34:13] [discord] have fun [06:34:14] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> Don't continue conversations that bring drama, I don't care what it relates to, this is getting out of hand, and if this continues I will start moderating. [06:34:21] [discord] uh [06:34:25] [discord] this does not bring drama [06:34:38] [discord] he used devtools to make a fake screenshot of me creating a wiki [06:34:39] [discord] thats not drama [06:36:08] [discord] It was just a light hearted joke I'm sure [06:36:26] [discord] Anyhow, I don't think this merits any further conversation so we should just disconverse for now [06:36:53] [discord] alright got it [06:37:51] [discord] On another note, anyone know of any new changes which MediaWiki 1.39 introduces that are not on [[MediaWiki/1.39]]? [06:37:51] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/MediaWiki/1.39 [06:37:52] [discord] [06:37:52] [url] MediaWiki/1.39 - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [06:38:14] [discord] I'm sure the extensions probably have a lot of new updates to them but I haven't had time to look into them [06:38:24] [discord] For example, DiscussionTools has that new interface now [06:38:35] [discord] and Vector 2022 new tabs [06:38:58] Oh DiscussionTools [06:39:00] [discord] hmm [06:39:03] Isn't that the thing that adds reply btutons and stuff [06:39:06] I think I opted out of that [06:39:07] [discord] test it [06:39:34] [discord] Yeah, it adds a reply button under new posts [06:39:46] [discord] yea [06:39:53] [discord] I like the new UI [06:39:57] [discord] it looks nice overall [06:40:13] [discord] Being able to subscribe to threads is really interesting too [06:40:37] [discord] grammatical issue here: https://login.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:User_wiki_creator [06:40:37] [url] Template:User wiki creator - Miraheze Login Wiki | login.miraheze.org [06:40:42] [discord] it should be `a wiki creator` [06:40:45] [discord] not `an wiki creator` [06:41:03] It should also say "on Miraheze" and not "on Meta" [06:41:21] [discord] Fixed [06:41:30] [discord] perhaps we can remove the entire "on Meta" part [06:41:45] [discord] kk [06:41:51] [discord] yea [06:44:36] [discord] loginwiki looks quite interesting [06:44:41] [discord] I haven't patrolled it in a while [06:45:26] [discord] ye [06:47:32] I can't even edit almost anything on there [06:47:38] Agent can even though all they have is autoconfirmed [06:48:33] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> No local groups on loginwiki. [06:48:54] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> Anyway I am off. [06:50:27] [discord] Why are these irc notifications coming? [06:50:42] Due to the high IQ levels [06:51:34] [discord] I don't understand what this has to do with high IQ level, but nice system, discord messaging between irc. [06:52:00] [discord] To clarify, we merged the miraheze-relay channel with General to give our folks over on IRC a little more direct access. [06:52:40] [discord] So now a message sent on either messaging service (either IRC or Discord) shows up in both places. [06:53:39] [discord] okey, thank you for information [06:55:15] [discord] hmm [06:55:31] [discord] is wikipedia's Pppery the same one as miraheze's? [06:55:32] [discord] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Pppery [06:55:41] [discord] they're an administrator on mediawiki.org and say they might want to be a wikipedia admin some day [06:55:53] [discord] mediawiki.org has also kept up the mentions of miraheze [06:56:05] [discord] They are, yes [06:56:21] [discord] MW.org is generally more forgiving heh [06:56:58] Hello HeyTurkiye! If you have any questions, feel free to ask and someone should answer soon. [06:57:09] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> Anyone who has just a little dev work can become an admin/bureaucrat there. Not hard. Wikipedia is entirely different. [06:57:27] [discord] makes sense [06:57:42] [discord] well if they're the same [06:57:46] [discord] and achieve their goal [06:57:50] [discord] of becoming a WP admin [06:58:05] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> It would then be a COI. [06:58:19] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> And likely wouldn't touch it at all anyway. [06:58:31] [discord] i am aware [06:58:44] [discord] i mean that they might be one of the few active people [06:58:49] [discord] who doesnt see miraheze as evil or whatever [06:59:01] [discord] Oh, adding conflict of interest (CoI) to the acronyms page. [06:59:06] Naleksuh: loginwiki is restricted via an AbuseFilter which has certain users and groups exempted [06:59:15] No, not the abuse filter [06:59:18] The template namespace [06:59:39] Also people kept getting on the exemption for weird reasons but I was never exempted [06:59:42] [discord] Not explicitly Miraheze but obscure enough that the average user might not lnow [07:00:02] [discord] You need to be autoconfirmed to edit it I think [07:00:24] [discord] how do you get autoconfirmed on a wiki where you can only edit your own user page [07:00:28] [discord] Yes MediaWiki loves its somewhat forgiving users. [07:00:29] Edit it 10 times [07:00:42] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> Edit it a few times. [07:00:49] [discord] good idea [07:00:54] [discord] Essentially, lol [07:00:56] [discord] could i just spam nonsense on it until i become autoconfirmed [07:01:00] [discord] I would even say version 1.39 of MediaWiki is the best version ever, they work very well [07:01:00] [discord] or do i have to put more effort into it than that [07:01:24] [discord] the latest functional and secure version is the best one [07:01:36] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> Each version is better than the last in some way, but they are also each have disadvantages from the previous. [07:01:40] [discord] That'll work, yeah [07:01:44] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> Like broken extensions. [07:01:57] [discord] Though your account also has to be 5 days old I think [07:02:03] [discord] well android has got considerably worse each version [07:02:07] [discord] but different produc [07:02:11] [discord] makes sense [07:02:13] [discord] anyway brb [07:02:16] [discord] +1 agree. [07:02:38] [discord] The disadvantage will of course be, everything has its disadvantages. [07:02:55] 4 days not 5 [07:06:04] [discord] By the way, https://en.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/wikipedia-tagline-en.svg will the tagline be when Miraheze MediaWiki upgrades to 1.39? [07:06:18] [discord] It won't, no [07:06:24] [discord] Will we be able to set the tagline in ManageWiki? [07:06:32] [discord] You can already set it, no? [07:06:37] [discord] At MediaWiki:Tagline [07:06:44] [discord] It's just hidden by default via CSS [07:07:25] [discord] Can I set it now? [07:07:30] [discord] Yes [07:07:42] [discord] Ha okey thank you Agent Isai. [07:07:58] The exemptions on the AbuseFilter are anybody with the delete userright and a specific list of users - I think they were generally trusted users with a valid use case [07:09:40] [discord] By the way, I mentioned the tagline in wordmark. [07:10:09] [discord] If the tagline in wordmark will not appear, there is no problem. I just wanted to ask [07:10:57] Macfan4000 : Not really a valid use cases [07:11:09] It was often a dumb reason like "to tag socks" or "to fix a typo on one guy's page" [07:11:57] hi! [07:12:52] [discord] hello [07:12:55] [discord] you're now on irc [07:12:56] Hello there [07:13:04] [discord] on irc you can't delete or edit messages [07:13:06] [discord] it's terrible [07:13:08] I was just about to go to bed but I will say hi [07:13:09] [discord] please come back to discord [07:13:14] Colleiflower please stop [07:13:18] [discord] ok sorry [07:13:29] Don't assume no-one else has used IRC just cause you haven't [07:13:43] [discord] ik people use it [07:13:45] [discord] i was joking [07:14:14] Some vesions of IRC do let you edit and delete (for example Freenode has it) and the problems with that as really obvious [07:14:22] So, very good we don't have that problem [07:14:55] [discord] i think [07:14:58] [discord] its off topic [07:15:02] [discord] to talk about thi [07:15:08] [discord] so im not continuing it [07:15:46] Fine, Miraheze IRC then [07:15:46] Honestly those specific exemptions should probably be reviews and some removed for users being inactive (CC: Stewards) [07:16:33] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> I was just looking at that also. But editing AbuseFilter hardly works on mobile so couldn't. [07:16:52] [discord] Probably everyone on there can be removed tbh [07:16:57] [discord] Even me [07:17:00] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> Yep. [07:17:19] Yup you’d already be included via the delete userright [07:17:34] (From the steward package) [07:17:50] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> That's what I was going to do, but I can't from mobile. [07:18:14] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> None of them have edited in a while (that isn't included in delete) [07:18:35] I could probably do it, just wasn’t 100% sure it would be within SRE scope [07:18:51] [discord] Arguably, it is [07:19:52] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> It could be, or CVT. But for loginwiki, since it's an SRE managed wiki it might be fine, but maybe if in doubt on scope you shouldn't MacFan4000. But I think it might be. [07:19:53] It totally isn't [07:21:19] Done [07:21:29] OK then... [07:21:32] Guess it was after all [07:21:33] Loginwiki is SRE managed [07:21:52] As it is vital CentralAuth working [07:22:48] & !("delete" in user_rights | user_name == "MirahezeBots" ) [07:22:49] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> It is in a technical scope, the on-wiki managed has also been a topic of debate I was never sure on. [07:22:52] Why | and not & [07:23:30] I’ll bring up the GUP RFC where John said that it was SRE managed and that no local rights would be assigned [07:24:00] I did leave MHbot in there since otherwise it breaks the status plug-in [07:24:18] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> I know that. But CVT (non-SRE) have always done actions as well. [07:24:41] Macfan4000 But the syntax is wrong [07:25:16] Oh wait nevermind the exclamation mark is outside the paranthesis [07:25:18] It's fine then [07:26:50] Strange usually AbuseFilter edits go to RC but mine didn’t [07:27:27] A long time ago a change was made for them to no longer be in RC due to some WMF considerations (I think they thought that vandals would see and change their behavior but that makes little sense) [07:27:52] I've always hoped there would be a $wgShowAbuseFilterInRC setting instead of the WMF just deciding for everyone [07:27:54] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> there is an abusefilter specific log I think. [07:28:35] https://login.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=abusefilter&user=&page=&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers [07:28:35] [url] Abuse filter log - Miraheze Login Wiki | login.miraheze.org [07:29:17] It does look like a few other SRE (non-steward, non-cvt) members have crossed that line [07:30:19] and oh didn’t realize that [07:30:37] that's always been a mess, no one really understood who had loginwiki 'access' [07:31:33] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> Led to controversy last time it happened IIRC. [07:32:08] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> What's up with the messages coming accross as "’"? [07:32:53] [discord] IRC [07:32:54] it doesn't seem like that for me? [07:32:54] [discord] is [07:32:56] [discord] stupid [07:33:04] [discord] > [irc] it doesn't seem like that for me? [07:33:04] [discord] it's how it appears on discord [07:34:11] Likely down to how the relay bot reads certain characters [07:34:42] I’ve sometimes seen that when people send custom emotes on the discord side [07:36:46] yeah some encoding issue [07:39:07] [discord] yes [07:39:13] Naleksuh: will merge PR when on stable internet and not working [11:55:52] Naleksuh: is mhbridgebot on -wikicreators invite list? [12:34:43] [discord] Image server broken? [12:34:44] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1064885481294274592/Screenshot_20230117_203341_com.mmbox.xbrowser.jpg [12:39:54] [discord] It works now [13:10:06] [discord] My images are gone too, none of the images load. [13:25:13] [discord] A couple other people on community noticeboard as well [14:29:07] [discord] Goodnight! [15:26:48] Sario : the account is mh-discord it only uses mhbridgebot as an alt nick [15:37:06] [discord] Oh the relay channel is now "merged" with general? [15:37:18] [discord] Makes sense if so, it was always sort of similar in nature [15:41:21] Naleksuh: but has it been given access to the IRC channel [15:41:39] ? [15:43:14] Yes [15:51:27] [discord] Any chance i can donate with crypto, preferably nano, instead of a credit card so theres no crediy card fee? [15:53:10] [discord] Its super easy to make a nano wallet and then MH can transfer it out whenever [15:58:52] [discord] We used to have that possibility but in a very long period (think more than a year) no one used it so it was removed [16:00:04] [discord] Oh ok, i wanted to do $5 a month and wanted to minimize the chunk of that thats fees [16:00:24] [discord] Any way it could be allowed again? [16:04:37] [discord] Github doesn't take any fees [16:05:12] [discord] But the credit card company does [16:05:26] [discord] Not even credit card company can [16:05:52] [discord] I don't think there's any fees if you use GitHub. If you pay $5 to GH there wouldn't be any fees on that. [16:06:23] [discord] https://docs.github.com/en/sponsors/getting-started-with-github-sponsors/about-github-sponsors [16:06:24] [url] About GitHub Sponsors - GitHub Docs | docs.github.com [16:06:38] [discord] Hmm really? I thought any time a credit card is used they take about 3% [16:07:00] [discord] Maybe from GitHub then heh [16:07:09] [discord] Only Elon Musk (Paypal) does for the stupid conversion fee [16:07:18] [discord] but it wouldn't be for us afaik. When I look at sponsors I only see exact numbers [16:07:44] [discord] No I think that's also the case if you buy things in shops for example, the shop has to pay 1,5% (or 3%) on the transaction [16:08:06] [discord] I mean the fee when not using US Dollars [16:08:28] [discord] So when someone makes a $5 sponsorship, miraheze sees exactly $5 more available to it? [16:08:48] [discord] I think so yes [16:08:50] [discord] yes (if you have US dollars) [16:09:23] [discord] Huh ok i didnt think cc companies would do anything for free [16:09:28] [discord] this has been going up and down rihgt now [16:09:43] [discord] If you don't have US dollars, there's a small conversion fee from banks (really small) or Paypal (very expensive) [16:10:10] [discord] I think GitHub might pay the fee I guess [16:10:12] [discord] but not fully sure [16:10:51] [discord] https://ppcurrencyconverter.com/ [16:10:52] [url] PayPal Currency Converter | Check Conversion Rates Instantly | ppcurrencyconverter.com [16:10:53] [discord] Oh thats possible. Im gonna research it, but github might be fine then [16:11:26] [discord] cloudflare gives you domains for a net profit to them of $0 [16:11:27] [discord] > GitHub Sponsors does not charge any fees for sponsorships from personal accounts, so 100% of these sponsorships go to the sponsored developer or organization. [16:11:28] [discord] [16:11:30] [discord] https://docs.github.com/en/billing/managing-billing-for-github-sponsors/about-billing-for-github-sponsors [16:11:30] [url] About billing for GitHub Sponsors - GitHub Docs | docs.github.com [16:11:52] [discord] there is no cost needed to "manufacture" the domains [16:12:02] [discord] so the end result is that more people [16:12:06] [discord] are aware of their other products [16:12:15] [discord] and it may lead to them actually buying other things [16:12:36] [discord] I mean this thing when you do on Github https://ppcurrencyconverter.com/how-to-reduce-paypal-fees [16:12:37] [url] How To Reduce PayPal Fees - Tried and Tested Tips | ppcurrencyconverter.com [16:12:41] [discord] the only expense is paying the developers and everyone else to plan out and design and develop the thing [16:13:12] [discord] so that is why some companies are willing to do things [16:13:13] [discord] for free [16:13:56] [discord] The free domain service essentially acts as an advertisement for them so the “cost” is a marketing one 🙂 [16:14:38] [discord] Im not talking about github. The credit card company normally charges a fee to use their service for payment. [16:15:05] [discord] thats fair [16:15:11] [discord] yea [16:15:18] [discord] But it looks like at least in 2019 github said they would cover the cc fees for a year. Maybe its still going on [16:15:47] [discord] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19991456 [16:15:49] [url] >GitHub will not charge fees for GitHub Sponsors. And to celebrate the launch, w... | Hacker News | news.ycombinator.com [16:20:33] [discord] Seems like that's bank issues, not Github [16:20:33] [discord] My bank didn't charge any fees besides local currency to USD [16:22:21] [discord] How did you send money from the bank to github? [16:22:34] [discord] Visa card directly to Github [16:22:59] [discord] imagine using a visa card [16:23:07] [discord] just use an undocumented card [16:23:12] [discord] 😎 [16:23:28] [discord] that joke makes as little sense as i intended it to [16:23:37] [discord] Visa takes a cut. So either github covered the fee or the fee was deducted from the donation [16:23:51] [discord] I'd think it's the former option [16:24:26] [discord] I assume so too or they wouldnt still be saying 100% goes to the organization [16:25:05] [discord] Nope, nothing [16:25:06] [discord] 100% goes to organization [16:25:07] [discord] I see they take 5$ and give that directly to Github [16:26:05] [discord] the bank cover all other fees and I don't have to worry anything [16:26:36] [discord] When you pay at a regular store with a credit card, what happens is the full $5 goes to the store, then the store reimburses visa for the fee. So the store is actually really getting like $4.85 [16:27:39] [discord] Thats why some places dont accept credit cards for small amounts, because so much is lost in the fee [16:28:05] [discord] Well, I asked my bank and they said they taken nothing [16:28:05] [discord] And Github also takes the same amount (and they did said they take 0 fee) [16:28:07] [discord] So MH got 100% money from my donation [16:28:22] [discord] How the bank cover my fee? From VIP customers instead [16:28:40] [discord] Yeah i think in this case github is covering the fee instead of miraheze [16:28:46] [discord] whenever someone says MH i know they're talking about miraheze but i think of mihoyo [16:29:22] [discord] Github is owned by Microsoft now to the transfer is nothing to them [16:29:28] [discord] 😂 [16:29:40] [discord] *fee [16:29:59] [discord] Yeah thats probably why they can do that [16:49:10] [discord] well im gonna use github, but if you guys ever want to create a nano method instead, let me know. i prefer the decentralized philosophy [16:49:21] I prefer the actual money philosophy [16:51:18] [discord] Well I can't guarantee this but I don't think we have any policy against accepting cash donations via post to MH Limited's registered address [16:51:21] [discord] i get that, i just dont like a few large companies like github/microsoft and credit card companies making us depend on them more and more [16:51:45] ...you wrote on Discord? [16:51:50] [discord] yeah [16:52:01] [discord] oops meant as a reply to naledsuh [16:52:09] Yeah, now instead of depending on GitHub you depend on Coinbase [16:52:13] Real big improvement [16:52:14] [discord] And I think one person/company has a standing bank order that sends it directly to our account [16:52:54] [discord] you mean send cash by mail? i think the postage fees would be pretty high [16:53:03] [discord] my bank charges fees to send internationally [16:53:30] [discord] theres a million companies that you can transfer crypto in and out with [16:53:37] [discord] well obviously I wouldn't recommend it but that was just a response to Naleksuh [16:53:52] [discord] oh lol ok [16:54:07] [discord] as for crypto as I mentioned we did have a possibility but unfortunately it was removed due to inexistent demand (not one donation via that method) [16:54:10] [discord] No mailing cash to miraheze. 😄 [16:54:11] [discord] and I believe also due to volatility [16:54:50] [discord] volatility is an issue [16:55:08] [discord] crypto have a giant issue that is the gas fee [16:55:21] crypto have *a* giant issue? [16:55:23] More than one [16:55:23] [discord] thats why i prefer nano. very small energy usage [17:07:02] [discord] does miraheze get the github sponsor matching? [17:07:34] [discord] i see some amounts from github on the finance page, i assume thats what it is [17:07:54] [discord] oh thats probably just all the github donors [17:10:12] [discord] oh its not possible to apply for matching anymore [17:13:02] [discord] Welcome @taropotato! If you would like to authenticate (validate) your Miraheze account, please type [17:23:55] [discord] welcome [17:27:07] [discord] actually, their article about refund fraud once had a huge list of step-by-step tutorials to commit refund fraud [17:27:12] [discord] it was removed under not how to [17:27:35] [discord] not under being dangerous, reckless, and probably illegal [17:27:37] [discord] Yeah, that's not cool. Explaining HOW to do fraud isn't acceptable [17:27:42] [discord] of course [17:27:43] [discord] but [17:27:47] [discord] wikipedia is not censored!! [17:27:54] [discord] freedom of information!!! [17:28:08] [discord] even if this information will screw over small business owners and aid criminals [17:28:11] [discord] its not censored™️ [17:31:51] [discord] hey who's aracham, and how can we be sure you arent them? [17:32:07] [discord] lmao 😐 [17:33:11] [discord] 🕵️ [17:33:28] [discord] oh ok thats how its gonna go [17:34:22] [discord] lmao [17:35:41] [discord] Heh, to actually explain: [17:35:41] [discord] [17:35:43] [discord] The second half was a handle I've used in a few different incarnations over the years, right characters in the right order to look *like* a name but not an actual name that was ever in use at the time. [17:35:44] [discord] [17:35:45] [discord] The first half (Not) was a result of needing to pose a question on the wiki message boards for a spooky horror podcast I listened to call The Magnus Archives [17:37:02] [discord] There's a kinda-doppleganger creature frequently referred to as the "Not-Person", with person replaced by whoever the person they overwrote in the timeline was, and the combination of the two parts kinda stuck. [17:38:03] [discord] oh cool thats interesting, i had no clue what the story would be [17:39:58] [discord] Thanks, you're the first person to ask. 😄 [17:40:23] [discord] So that's now a cool bit of trivia you know [17:41:01] [discord] lol yep. it does look like "aracham" brings up no exact matches on google. some similar hebrew word though i think [17:41:17] [discord] Exactly. It's precisely and intentionally nothing. [17:41:22] [discord] lol [17:41:35] [discord] It looks like it should be something, but... nope. Just me [17:41:54] [discord] or not you ^^ [17:41:57] [discord] my first thought was maybe it was some anime character [17:42:01] [discord] 🕵️ [17:42:26] [discord] Finding linguistic dead spots was a fun exercise, I should do that again some time. [17:43:53] [discord] IIRC that was the philosophy behind simlish as well. Things that sounds like other languages, but intentionally aren't anything in any language beyond simlish. [17:44:08] [discord] Anyway, getting off-topic [17:45:34] [discord] lol yeah but thanks for reminding me of simlish [18:35:43] Naleksuh: PR merged [18:35:53] Deploy will be in ~5 minutes [20:16:38] [discord] maybe someone should join the fandom server and search through their messages w/ seo recommendations [20:17:03] [discord] so that we know what they're up to and how to do better :D [20:17:14] [discord] i hope that eventually miraheze will be more popular than fandom [20:17:33] [discord] Corporate espionage lol sounds fun [20:17:35] [discord] and fandom will actually have no choice but to do things that their users want because they'd risk losing profit and users otherwise [20:17:46] [discord] no lmao [20:17:49] [discord] more like open source intelligence [20:18:16] [discord] I mean I doubt they have the bread and butter of their seo optimisations publicly accessible [20:18:40] [discord] of course [20:18:45] [discord] but at least its some information [20:19:11] [discord] also they sometimes privately give recommendations to large wikis [20:19:19] [discord] but those wikis dont always care to keep the information private or whatever [20:19:25] Fandom have paid SEO experts [20:19:29] We don’t [20:19:45] [discord] A lot of their styling decisions are primarily SEO based [20:19:56] [discord] You may not realize it but the skin you choose affects your SEO [20:20:03] [discord] especially using certain features [20:20:09] [discord] > [irc] Fandom have paid SEO experts [20:20:10] [discord] right, and these SEO experts are giving advice semi-publicly [20:20:15] [discord] because by design they sort of have to [20:20:21] [discord] For example, Google complains when you use Cosmos and have a custom sitenotice in place [20:20:25] [discord] which is weird [20:20:29] [discord] something to do with load time [20:20:30] [discord] ah [20:20:31] [discord] ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [20:20:34] [discord] yea [20:20:45] [discord] i compress image files and such on my wiki to reduce load time [20:20:52] [discord] along with fixing any css issues that cause problems [20:21:08] [discord] also iirc according to fandom's seo experts google prioritizes mobile experience over desktop experienfe [20:21:09] [discord] so the push to Oasis and FandomDesktop definitely had some SEO reason [20:21:12] [discord] most people use mobile [20:21:19] [discord] yup [20:21:20] [discord] makes sense [20:21:26] [discord] yea [20:21:37] [discord] I'd have to check Matomo but I think last time I saw, it was 50/50 regarding traffic [20:21:38] [discord] on my wiki earlier today i made some css and js changes to improve mobile experience [20:21:47] [discord] yea [20:23:19] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> Cosmos used to have a lot of performance issues itself, that have been fixed over time, but because the site notice appears later on, not immediately, it degrades performance and how Google sees it. [20:23:38] [discord] yea [20:23:48] [discord] Cosmos is a fairly solid skin [20:23:56] [discord] It's my go to mobile skin [20:24:03] [discord] I still don't trust Minerva lol [20:24:08] [discord] i also like cosmos [20:24:23] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> Cosmos supports MobileFrontend also. [20:24:40] [discord] does suck that you can't disable Minerva without also disabling MobileFrontend [20:25:27] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> Why is that, I can't remember why we set it like that, but not sure MF required Minerva does it? Oh maybe it does. [20:25:38] [discord] I havent tried any skins other than the default and Timeless, but im a fan of how timeless looks on mobile [20:26:09] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> MF doesn't require Minerva it seems. [20:26:13] [discord] I think Timeless was once tested or poised as a successor to Vector [20:26:21] [discord] Imagine if instead of Vector 2022 we had Timeless 2022 [20:26:23] [discord] lol [20:26:28] [discord] Is vector the default? [20:26:32] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> yeah [20:26:32] [discord] Yes [20:26:37] [discord] Gotcha [20:26:48] [discord] here's what i have on fandom seo so far (i joined with an alt and have no fandom account to attach it with so i cant access the channels that are intended for only verified fandom accounts) [20:26:49] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065004274473500743/image.png [20:26:50] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065004274754531490/image.png [20:26:51] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065004274985222276/image.png [20:26:53] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065004275274612777/image.png [20:26:54] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065004275463368824/image.png [20:26:55] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065004276390314044/image.png [20:26:56] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065004276583235704/image.png [20:26:58] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065004276847489104/image.png [20:26:59] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065004277015265320/image.png [20:27:00] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065004277455650896/image.png [20:29:11] [discord] oops sorry if thats a lot of posts [20:29:25] [discord] but i think that might be a bit helpful [20:29:29] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> It was on IRC... [20:29:58] [discord] <🚫 CosmicAlpha | 💯 AWAY> But that's interesting. [20:30:00] [discord] ye [20:32:51] [discord] I've indeed noticed how Fandom will sometimes dethrone Wikipedia in Google's Knowledge Graph cards [20:33:08] [discord] whats funny is that I once found that a Fandom article which copied most of it's content from Wikipedia still dethroned it [20:33:14] [discord] yea lmao [20:33:18] [discord] but goes to show that they have an SEO powerhouse [20:33:26] [discord] it has to do with fandom's domain authority and all [20:33:32] [discord] fandom always gets sites linking to it [20:33:35] [discord] even if it's absolute garbage [20:33:41] [discord] because they find it when searching for other things [20:33:58] [discord] like ive found that genshin-impact.fandom.com is linked a lot [20:34:06] [discord] which is fine [20:34:07] [discord] but [20:34:12] [discord] it seems to give authority to fandom overall [20:42:48] [discord] was wondering if anybody here has a fandom account [20:42:56] [discord] if so might want to join .gg/fandom and attach their account [20:43:03] [discord] so they can search other parts of the server for seo-related stuf [20:43:58] [discord] oh yeah, i had an idea, with our createwiki extension, could it be possible to by default instead of naming the main page as just `Main Page`, name it to be the same as the wiki's name? [20:44:02] [discord] fandom has been doing that for seo for a while now [20:45:23] [discord] We definitely can though we generally don't as we like to stick as close to MediaWiki default as possible [20:45:28] [discord] but it shouldn't be difficult [20:45:41] [discord] hmm i see [20:45:43] [discord] makes sense [20:58:18] [discord] oh yeah [20:58:29] [discord] is there any way to add rel=nofollow to red links on my wiki [21:06:24] [discord] found on fallout wiki from their wiki manager tagaziel [21:06:25] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065014251615432734/image.png [21:06:45] [discord] this expeditions move is a pretty good idea here [21:06:46] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065014336143237210/image.png [21:06:55] [discord] going to apply that on genshin wiki [21:15:31] [discord] ooo, that's smart actually [21:15:40] [discord] unfortunately, I believe MW doesn't provide a way to do that [21:17:59] [discord] Im assuming search engines are smart enough to ignore red links by this point since mediawiki is pretty popular [21:18:36] [discord] fandom thought it'd be a good idea to do it manually [21:18:36] [discord] so maybe not [21:18:41] [discord] ah that sucks [21:18:53] [discord] Oh interesting [21:19:00] [discord] yea [21:19:32] [discord] It does hurt your SEO though if you have a lot of red links [21:19:44] [discord] yes [21:19:54] [discord] Oh ok didnt know that [21:19:58] [discord] iirc fandom made a change so that red links appear as just normal text to logged out users [21:19:59] [discord] It might be a good extension idea to make an extension which makes red links have a nofollow attribute [21:20:02] [discord] for seo reasons [21:20:05] [discord] which wasnt too bad of an idea [21:20:08] [discord] yup [21:20:09] [discord] hmm yea [21:20:11] [discord] that's exactly it [21:20:13] [discord] maybe make it configurable [21:20:19] [discord] so that you can choose to either convert them to text for anon users [21:20:22] [discord] or add rel=nofollow [21:20:31] [discord] i'd work on making the extension eventually probs but im a bit busy [21:20:40] [discord] i think a lot of wikis would like i [21:20:42] [discord] Converting them to text would be an issue potentially with regards to cache [21:20:48] [discord] oh yeah [21:20:52] [discord] i'll have to look into how fandom implemented it [21:20:55] [discord] Don’t we get a red link for every talk page [21:20:56] [discord] I believe there's already a way to do that via a hook but you have to disable cache [21:21:03] [discord] their pre-ucp code [21:21:06] [discord] Only if you link to it [21:21:16] [discord] is still [21:21:18] [discord] public on github [21:23:13] [discord] Oh by default vector shows those right [21:24:14] Agent: parser cache can be split [21:24:33] You don’t have to disable it if you’re an extension [21:24:53] [discord] ah [21:24:54] [discord] i see [21:24:56] Not sure how config would set the right parser option [21:27:57] [discord] hmm [21:29:03] [discord] Looking at the miraheze draft on enwiki, i wonder if theres enough secondary sources, but too many primary sources. Like maybe reviewers look at the references list and see that it's 50% primary and dont like that. Maybe instead of 8/17 primary, something like 3/12 primary would look better. [21:29:21] It’s quite common for parser cache to be split anyway [21:29:26] Based on some settings [21:29:36] [discord] This is interesting enough to get me looking at PHP again. Perhaps it's time to write an extension [21:29:55] It should scare you off [21:30:00] [discord] yes [21:30:00] Parser cache is a nightmare [21:30:07] [discord] make extension [21:30:09] [discord] bruh [21:30:16] [discord] rhinosf1: we can base it off of what wikia/app had [21:30:56] [discord] Was that directed at me? Oh, parser cache considerations should scare me off? [21:31:17] [discord] maybe idk [21:31:25] [discord] https://github.com/Wikia/app/tree/dev/extensions/wikia/SeoLinkHreflang this extension did stuff to red links [21:31:26] [url] app/extensions/wikia/SeoLinkHreflang at dev · Wikia/app · GitHub | github.com [21:31:28] [discord] could do something similar [21:31:36] I was talking to NotAracham [21:31:58] [discord] ah [21:33:33] [discord] Fair enough. I'm going to need to stare at other extensions for a good long while before I start creating anything worth creating, it's been easily a decade since I was passably fluent. [21:34:10] [discord] alright [21:35:43] [discord] /auth [21:36:15] [discord] You’ll need to click the option that appears or tap /auth in the welcome message [21:36:19] [discord] Not just type it [21:36:44] [discord] i did that but it doesn't seem to be working [21:36:45] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065021883344502814/image.png [21:36:57] [discord] Try again [21:36:59] [discord] It's a little cantankerous, might need a few attempts [21:37:06] [discord] The bot sometimes goes to sleep [21:37:14] [discord] yknow what i want for MW [21:37:24] [discord] an actual replacement of ElasticSearch (for cirrussearch) [21:38:03] [discord] it's kinda weird how WMF still uses this tool for it because of it's bizarre license [21:39:29] [discord] They are moving away [21:39:48] [discord] It’ll be open search soon™️ [21:39:57] [discord] No it doesn’t? [21:40:06] [discord] Praised OpenSearch [21:41:10] [discord] i mea that it did stuff to links [21:41:12] [discord] not to red links [21:42:53] [discord] Let's just plug jeeves into it, it'll be fine. 🙃 [21:46:09] [discord] lmao [21:50:26] [discord] i still want to make my own skin for MW, but I'm lazy to install MW on Windows, lol [21:51:05] [discord] is there a way I can install without XAMPP? Because I already have Postgres in my system, so I don't really need another database just for that [21:57:58] [discord] Im thinking to ask a question on the talk page of the user that declined the Miraheze article to ask for clarification on why the cited secondary sources are not good enough [21:58:05] [discord] Seem like a good idea? [21:58:29] [discord] ok sure [21:59:40] [discord] I would say maybe a pi dev server but god those are so hard to find (and expensive) these days [22:13:34] [discord] this is as far as i could get with the extension so far [22:13:34] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065031151305113722/seolinks.zip [22:13:38] [discord] but im going to work on it more later [22:13:44] [discord] i need to go do other things [22:14:58] [discord] Virus! [22:14:58] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065031504532623541/Screenshot_20230117-161445.png [22:15:00] [discord] lol [22:15:13] [discord] seolinks.zip.exe.msi [22:15:58] [discord] that pop-up appears for all zip files afaik [22:16:55] [discord] yeah it does appear for all zip files [22:17:01] [discord] yeah, just a joke [22:17:05] [discord] lmao [22:18:45] [discord] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Raydann#Clarification_on_Draft:Miraheze_decision [22:18:46] [wikipedia] User talk:Raydann - Clarification on Draft:Miraheze decision | "Clarification on Draft:Miraheze decision Hi, I see that the reason for Draft:Miraheze being declined was "Needs secondary sources independent of the subject". I was hoping you could clarify why the secondary sources provided are not adequate. References 6, 8, 10, 14, and 15 are the main secondary sources provided for the article. Dimpizzy (talk) 22:17, 17 […]" [22:25:41] [discord] Well, that fly on their talk page is the most annoying thing I've seen today. [22:26:54] [discord] Lol yeah first time ive seen something like that on wikipedia [22:27:20] [discord] Damn shame it's not something funnier like [22:27:20] [url] File:Jimbo Peeking.gif - Wikipedia | en.wikipedia.org [22:40:14] [discord] That just gave me a great idea for April Fools Day [22:41:07] [discord] Jimbo creeping in to the Meta homepage? [22:44:43] [discord] yup [23:09:19] [discord] lmaoo [23:09:28] [discord] that would be [23:09:28] [discord] hilarious [23:13:58] [discord] good job [23:14:18] [discord] in all honesty even if we manage to fit sourcing requirements [23:14:58] [discord] **wiki**pedia has a central entity (the WMF) that makes final decisions for everything and can delete articles, ban people, etc. with no appeal or community input [23:15:24] [discord] and given that wikipedia arbitrarily banned a mirahze user there's no way in hell that they'd ever let miraheze be mentioned anywhere [23:15:40] [discord] if its about protecting peoples safety by not linking to "shady" websites with banned users... [23:15:53] [discord] that's a bit ironic [23:16:08] [discord] (given the refund fraud article's history) [23:18:24] [discord] Maybe. It seems unlikely they would ban it with no reasoning provided though as i cant imagine any reason that would be "unsafe" for the public to know [23:18:45] [discord] do you think the WMF is the slightest bit rational? [23:18:59] [discord] to give you an overview of their fundraising problems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Wikipedia_has_Cancer [23:19:00] [wikipedia] User:Guy Macon/Wikipedia has Cancer | "Alternative title: Just because you have some money, that doesn't mean that you have to spend it.In biology, the hallmarks of an aggressive cancer include limitless multiplication of ordinarily beneficial cells, even when the body signals that further multiplication is no longer needed. The Wikipedia page on the wheat and chessboard problem explains that nothing can keep growing […]" [23:19:10] [discord] (along with their lack of transparency etc.) [23:19:57] [discord] they also launched enterprise.wikimedia.com, so now they're planning on being at least partially financially dependent on big tech companies that pay for it [23:22:19] [discord] Huh. I hope they are considering plans for transparency to prevent conflicts of interest [23:22:28] [discord] the community has hoped for that for YEARS [23:23:02] [discord] as said in the essay, it's only a matter of a time until something makes the donations stop to the point that the ever-increasing needless spending cant continue the way it does [23:23:18] [discord] I wonder how jimbo feels about the current state of things. Is he all about it [23:23:31] [discord] heh, their fundraising is very effective though [23:23:39] [discord] They rake in millions in profit [23:23:41] [discord] but the WMF has no history of thinking things through, so by then, they're likely going to look for new ways to raise useless amounts of money [23:23:45] [discord] just look at enterprise.wikipedia.com to see [23:23:51] [discord] how they're becoming dependent on big tech [23:23:53] [discord] yup [23:24:00] [discord] i know, far more than they need [23:24:03] [discord] After the superprotect fiasco, things started to go down [23:24:13] [discord] yea [23:24:41] [discord] they need to afford: [23:24:42] [discord] - internet hosting [23:24:43] [discord] - a small group of paid full-time developers [23:24:44] [discord] - *maybe* a trust & safety team to work on undisclosed paid editing like they've been having, but certainly not to work on vandalism spam etc [23:24:51] [discord] probably a few other things [23:24:58] [discord] but the way its going now they're just looking for ways to spend money [23:25:04] [discord] on things that aren't really improving anything [23:25:18] [discord] eventually they wont get enough money in donations to keep that up [23:25:30] [discord] Arent they a non profit? Are the employees making tons of money? [23:25:35] [discord] they are a non profit [23:25:39] [discord] the employees are making living wage [23:25:43] [discord] but they have more employees than they need [23:25:53] [discord] So wheres the huge profit going? [23:25:55] [discord] they have people doing tasks that dont improve anything for anyone [23:26:02] [discord] Unnecessary employees? [23:26:02] [discord] either saved or spent on useless employees [23:26:05] [discord] yes [23:26:07] [discord] I see [23:26:34] [discord] that being said we only have the bare minimum of information available on where it's going because there is no official source from the WMF on what the donations are used or needed for [23:26:45] [discord] of course they have to file tax returns as a 501(c)(3) etc [23:26:50] [discord] so we have a basic idea [23:26:58] [discord] but we still dont know the exact numbers [23:29:18] [discord] Yeah looks like half of the $90 million expenses are salary [23:30:05] [discord] yeah [23:30:12] [discord] and again, its not that they dont need to hire anyone [23:30:20] [discord] they should be able to resist legal threats, cybersecurity attacks, etc. [23:30:33] [discord] but some of the people they hire are just solving problems that dont exist and are unlikely to occur [23:30:51] [discord] they are just looking for new ways to spend money on garbage [23:30:56] [discord] the WMF as a whole is confusing [23:32:04] [discord] Their SRE team is huge [23:34:17] [discord] yea [23:36:01] [discord] I found at least something about the salary breakdown [23:36:04] [discord] https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_salaries [23:36:05] [url] Wikimedia Foundation salaries - Meta | meta.m.wikimedia.org [23:36:06] [discord] ah [23:36:09] [discord] ill check in a sec [23:36:42] [discord] Doesnt seem like everyone. An article said they have at least 280 employees and this is far less [23:37:14] [discord] Just execs i think [23:39:43] [discord] https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/staff-contractors/#technology yeah 37 [23:39:45] [url] Staff and Contractors – Wikimedia Foundation | wikimediafoundation.org [23:41:37] [discord] yeah i can see a site reliability engineering team being needed [23:41:42] [discord] but there should be some limitations to that [23:41:58] [discord] how likely is it that every member of the engineering team is going to be on vacation at the very second that wikipedia randomly goes offline [23:43:17] [discord] Maybe this should move over to off-topic, i think it strayed pretty far from MH [23:43:25] [discord] +1 [23:44:24] [discord] yeah sorry about that [23:45:04] [discord] Nah it was me too [23:45:20] [discord] my main point is that even if we get enough sources for a miraheze article on wikipedia there will always be challenges with WMF bans [23:45:29] [discord] Jumping straight into the conversation to ask for clarification, the classic vector skin is not being disabled tomorrow, right? Only that the new vector is the default? [23:45:42] [discord] Yeah, on Wikipedia [23:45:46] [discord] Saw below msg and got a bit worried now [23:45:47] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065054353980919839/Screenshot_20230118-004409073_1.jpg [23:45:54] [discord] No changes to MH, just Wikipedia [23:46:04] [discord] The default is already V22 on Miraheze [23:46:13] [discord] Ah gotcha, thanks 👍 [23:46:14] [discord] but classic Vector isn't going anywhere as long as WMF maintains it [23:46:25] [discord] Good to know! [23:46:30] [discord] i dont see why miraheze as a whole is problematic because one single staff member was banned by the WMF organization [23:46:38] [discord] most people have been banned from at least one website before [23:47:00] [discord] #ID:615786602454581249 would be best for this convo [23:47:04] [discord] alright sorry