[00:00:04] [discord] yeah i think its slowly becoming more popular as people find out about it [00:00:28] [discord] ye [00:01:09] [discord] Indeed it is [00:01:13] [discord] I hadn't looked at it [00:01:28] [discord] Looks very helpful [00:01:53] [discord] yea [00:06:32] [discord] i see ExternalData extension says "Requires: Permissions - managewiki-restricted" [00:06:36] [discord] is that something i can do myself? [00:10:05] [discord] no [00:10:08] [discord] a steward has to [00:10:13] [discord] do manage wiki restricted things [00:10:24] [discord] Anything tagged with that is a steward-level permission you need to request on SN [00:10:35] [discord] oh ok, will do [00:11:18] [discord] Pretty much reserved for the stuff that's most likely to wreck your wiki or the farm if improperly applied [00:11:35] [discord] oh do you know what makes this extension dangerous? [00:13:03] [discord] Not off hand, but what I recall is that anything that involves data lookups gets much heavier the more pages that are on your wiki and tables that need to be referenced [00:13:16] [discord] oh i see [00:14:28] [discord] All those extensions are exploration projects I keep putting off for a rainy day, so limited insight to share on my side. [00:14:42] [discord] no worries [01:01:00] [discord] Is there a way to force like... refresh or purge a cache(??) of Special:Statistics? At criticalrole, we're shown as having 4197 content pages, but an API query to fetch all mainspace non-redirect pages shows 4178 [01:01:46] [discord] (well, 4198 and 4179 since a page was created while I was mulling this over) [01:07:38] [discord] in managewiki you can change how articles are counted [01:07:45] [discord] either all articles or only those who are linked to [01:07:51] [discord] change it to the one you dont want then change it back to the one you do want [01:07:57] [discord] and it should refresh itself [01:25:05] [discord] looking at documentation for $wgArticleCountMethod, it does not seem like it would, there's a specific note saying it does not [01:25:05] [discord] [01:25:06] [url] Manual:$wgArticleCountMethod - MediaWiki | www.mediawiki.org [01:25:25] [discord] I presume I'll just have to open a phab ticket to get the maintenance script run [01:27:13] [discord] this did make me realize we had a namespace being counted toward the total that shouldn't have been, so thnx for that [01:27:43] [discord] i know that it says htat [01:27:46] [discord] but for some reason [01:27:48] [discord] it does [01:27:50] [discord] wild [01:27:56] [discord] when i changed it on managewiki it made it refresh the article count [01:27:59] [discord] and i dont really know why [01:32:02] Changing it on ManageWiki runs the script. [01:35:50] [discord] that makes snese [01:38:36] [discord] ahhh [01:55:35] [discord] Yeah, that's why just changing to something and changing it back refreshes it also. It is also ran on all wikis (weekly?) also. I can't remember the exact schedule fot that one though. [01:56:20] [discord] Saturdays, as I recall [02:00:14] [discord] Ah, no, I was thinking of sitemaps, which are weekly on saturday. [02:00:14] [discord] [02:00:15] [discord] Statistics are rebuilt twice a month on the first and 15th [02:58:53] [discord] Ah yeah that's right. [02:59:15] [discord] Anyone understands what are Semantic MediaWikis? [02:59:23] [discord] no [02:59:27] [discord] let me look it up [03:01:58] [discord] > The Semantic MediaWiki (SMW) extension allows for managing structured data in your wiki and for querying that data to create dynamic representations: tables, timelines, maps, lists, etc. [03:02:05] [discord] ah [03:02:09] [discord] that explanation makes sense [03:02:13] [discord] does it make sense to you [04:44:41] [discord] Didn't find the Special page list when looking at admin part. [04:44:42] [discord] Is this skin limitation or MW limit? [04:44:43] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065491970383954070/image.png [04:45:52] [discord] ^I mean the Special:SpecialPages but didn't saw it in here [04:49:16] [discord] i do not think that Special:SpecialPages lists it [04:49:18] [discord] but if it does [04:49:27] [discord] it will be listed as something like "ManageWiki" probably [04:49:30] [discord] could be wrong tho [04:53:00] [discord] I mean a button to redirect me to Special:SpecialPages [04:53:01] [discord] ManageWiki isn't related to Special:SpecialPages [04:54:35] [discord] im not sure what you're referring to [05:02:48] [discord] Special:SpecialPages is not there unless added the sidebar I think (MediaWiki:Sidebar) [05:06:47] [discord] I thought it was there by default [05:07:04] [discord] I didn't specifically modify MediaWiki:Sidebar on my wiki and it is there [05:07:15] [discord] It is possible for you or someone else add that the administration section? [05:07:15] [discord] I think only show it to admins could prevent SEO issues and other unnecessary problems [05:07:52] [discord] or did I misunderstand the entire discussion lol [05:07:59] [discord] add that special page to MediaWiki:Sidebar isn't a good idea [05:08:28] [discord] Yes, it wasn't there on MH by default [05:10:05] [discord] this? [05:10:06] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065498359680487485/image.png [05:11:21] [discord] Yea, that button [05:11:21] [discord] Seems to be skin issue on my side [05:11:22] [discord] Can't find that button anywhere on my wiki [05:11:49] [discord] it should be built in as one of the TOOLBOX links [05:12:22] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065498933788422164/image.png [05:12:35] [discord] HMMMMMMM [05:12:42] [discord] which skin u using (I don't recognize skins xD [05:12:48] [discord] Citizen [05:15:06] [discord] I have it [05:15:14] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065499657591078922/image.png [05:15:46] [discord] oh, found it [05:15:57] [discord] A bit confusedšŸ˜‚ [05:16:24] [discord] lolol [05:51:46] [discord] Honestly I might want to switch to Citizen lol, seems like quite a good skin which is mostly balanced between a cleaner FandomDesktop-*minus-all-the-ads*-style design and the default one [05:51:57] [discord] evelution is fandomdesktop [05:52:02] [discord] I know [05:52:02] [discord] ive had an idea for a while [05:52:09] [discord] what if we made something based on fandom's discussions [05:52:10] [discord] and I don't really wanna use FandomDesktop [05:52:11] [discord] lol [05:52:14] [discord] in a mediawiki extension [05:52:17] [discord] ah [05:52:32] [discord] Honestly, I like the new DiscussionTools layout far more than Fandom Discussions [05:52:37] [discord] It looks much more intuitive to use [05:52:46] [discord] i do not mean replacing discussionstools [05:52:51] [discord] i mean like a /f or Special:Discussions [05:52:52] [discord] Yeah, Flow in comparison is like shiet [05:52:58] [discord] Flow is falling apart [05:53:07] [discord] even if we dont understand why people like discussions, they still do [05:53:13] [discord] I feel bad, I liked Flow [05:53:18] [discord] but alas, it was killed off [05:53:19] [discord] so we should be able to offer similar features as fandom does [05:53:39] [discord] it's literally trash for any multi-variant Chinese (`zh` based) wiki, coz LanguageConverter doesn't support conversion in Flow discussions [05:53:40] [discord] obviously not some kind of miraheze-exclusive thing, i think its an extension i should make [05:53:43] [discord] which is ok tbh, I don't like the idea of relying on a single extension that's prone to becoming obsolete and thus losing years of conversations [05:53:44] [discord] a lot of people would like it imo [05:53:53] [discord] er, that's horrible [05:54:17] [discord] LC is literally the base of all `zh` wikis and anything that doesn't support LC is basically off the list [05:54:27] [discord] Yup, I understand. I'm just saying that DiscussionTools provides a very good layout nowadays [05:54:36] [discord] and the default DiscussionTools is solely wikitext based, so it works well [05:54:41] [discord] My personal issue against Discussions is that it's a bit *too* simple to use [05:54:46] [discord] unless I got the whole idea wrong [05:54:51] [discord] and thus attracts a lot of nonsense from users [05:55:00] [discord] like those spammy polls you see on basically every Fandom wiki [05:55:02] [discord] most people are not very well-educated about tech [05:55:36] [discord] i remember that rationalwiki user box saying like "I believe in free speech, even for [[Conservapedia|idiots]]." [05:55:36] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Conservapedia [05:55:38] [discord] tho I'd really want the 1.40 Extension:Echo [05:55:57] [discord] That's what I really really like about it! It doesn't run the risk of ever being hostage to an extension becoming obsolete, the text is there basically forever [05:56:15] [discord] Exactly [05:56:17] [discord] For example, if Flow EOLs, a lot of conversations are going down with it [05:56:26] [discord] versus DT where literally nothing would change [05:56:38] [discord] What's new with 1.40? [05:56:39] [discord] Even with obsolete extensions DT convos don't break [05:56:45] [discord] that is true but a lot of people simply dont care [05:56:46] [discord] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Echo [05:56:47] [url] Extension:Echo - MediaWiki | www.mediawiki.org [05:56:54] [discord] It's 1.40+ [05:57:01] [discord] they want one central entity to make them a product as simple and easy to use as possibl [05:57:02] [discord] so our 1.39 update doesn't cover it yet [05:57:38] [discord] Ah, new UI? [05:57:43] [discord] looks flatter [05:57:46] [discord] and then just sit around and complain and do nothing when everything gets screwed up [05:57:49] [discord] like on fandom [05:57:50] [discord] everyone is like [05:58:00] [discord] "miraheze is too complicated, i want someone to do mediawiki for me" [05:58:03] [discord] or actually, old UI? :thinkingcp: [05:58:04] [discord] and then there's UCP [05:58:07] [discord] and they go and complain [05:58:12] [discord] about UCP [05:58:14] [discord] over and over again [05:58:15] [discord] No, I think it includes the topic subscription feature of DT [05:58:18] [discord] but they still refuse to switch [05:58:19] [discord] o [05:58:20] [discord] you're right [05:58:22] [discord] > Also, Extension:Echo is required if you want to use the topic subscriptions feature. [05:58:24] [discord] Or actually [05:58:26] [discord] it's just how people are [05:58:30] [discord] i think im talking to myself now [05:58:31] [discord] lmao [05:58:34] [discord] I think topic subscriptions is available on 1.39 [05:58:35] [discord] lmao [05:58:38] [discord] hmmmmmmmmm [05:58:40] [discord] Let me check Betaheze [05:59:01] [discord] It isn't [05:59:03] [discord] :waaa: [05:59:27] [discord] Yep, it comes with MW 1.40 which itself is not stable yet [05:59:45] [discord] It's cause we truly do provide a literal blank canvas for people to use and that's overwhelming sometimes [05:59:59] [discord] yeah i know [06:00:15] [discord] maybe if we let users choose some settings from RequestWiki like the default skin and stuff, they'd feel it's easier to use [06:00:21] [discord] sometimes you have to assist stupid people that don't understand how or why anything works [06:00:22] [discord] but blank canvasses are the best, since we don't have restrictions like Fandom does to even just customize JS [06:00:32] [discord] ManageWiki and all our tools are primarily targeted to powerusers, people who understand MediaWiki [06:00:42] [discord] the whole fandom user base: [06:00:42] [discord] 1. complains about UCP [06:00:44] [discord] 2. refuses to switch sites [06:00:50] [discord] but as we grow, we'll unavoidably attract novices who know absolutely zero about MediaWiki [06:00:53] [discord] because there isn't anybody else to do everything for them [06:00:58] [discord] yeah [06:01:09] [discord] Yup! [06:01:21] [discord] usually suree [06:01:28] [discord] but not everyone wants that [06:01:35] [discord] Sometimes it's a lot to handle [06:01:36] [discord] it isn't exactly Fandom user base refuses to switch sites, it's mainly 1) Fandom hates when wikis do that, 2) not everyone knows where to switch to, 3) people are goddamned lazy and doesn't want to set their wiki up [06:01:48] [discord] Yeah, Fandom has a pretty good grip on its users [06:01:52] [discord] yeah thats true [06:01:55] [discord] It makes it so switching to stock MediaWiki is hard [06:02:15] [discord] A lot of users can't grasp the idea that the vanilla MediaWiki version of Message Walls are talk pages [06:02:20] [discord] anyway we should head off the Fandom topic and go back to MediaWiki before Cosmic pops up and complains we are off-topic again XD [06:02:29] [discord] New users have a serious learning curve with regards to how to send messages by using talk pages [06:02:48] [discord] Until after DT is released [06:02:50] [discord] Well, as admin I decree it's fine \:P [06:03:10] [discord] but in reality, we're focusing on DT [06:03:18] [discord] honestly i sort of wonder if somebody could [06:03:23] [discord] But yeah, the new DT update is super cool [06:03:24] [discord] oops [06:03:27] [discord] accidentally pressed enter [06:03:32] [discord] lmao [06:03:55] [discord] fixed it [06:03:56] [discord] DT is always a nice feature, without need to fully revamp everything and make things work just on their original base [06:04:25] [discord] Wikimedia finally got it right with DT [06:04:31] [discord] theres a fine line between competing and trying to silence and harass competition [06:04:41] [discord] LiquidThreads and Flow were a disaster but DiscussionTools is shaping up to be greay [06:05:15] [discord] yea [06:05:44] [discord] i forgot who that one guy was but there was this one person who was very active on community central and loyal to fandom [06:06:17] [discord] as UCP came around he started to giving people guides on how to try to convince fandom to stop the update [06:06:32] [discord] and submitting support tickets about it and trying to get others to do the same [06:06:40] [discord] and also refusing to help anyone on the forums [06:06:56] [discord] i think at some point he got blocked for being disruptive but what a smart guy lmao [06:07:01] [discord] welcome [06:07:54] [discord] hi [06:07:58] [discord] hello there [06:08:00] [discord] welcome [06:08:00] [discord] DT us already on Miraheze? [06:08:11] [discord] comes with 1.39 if I am correct [06:08:26] [discord] I like flow but ya'll saying it's sinking does make me think [06:08:26] [discord] We technically already have DT but in its old form [06:08:35] [discord] We use DT on Meta [06:08:43] [discord] but the old, 1.38 version [06:08:47] [discord] why arent my fonts loading on this page? last 3 in the first img are the 3 that i have circled for reference [06:08:47] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065513131566186506/image.png [06:08:49] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065513131796860958/image.png [06:08:50] [discord] exactly on? [06:08:57] [discord] yep, fandom does have a huge grip on its userbase, the editors are used to editing on there and say its easier, but in reality its the same and they dont wanna switch sites [06:09:06] [discord] yeah [06:09:08] [discord] Those domains aren't in our Content Security Policy [06:09:15] [discord] Please upload the fonts to your wiki and use that URL images [06:09:26] [discord] or use google fonts [06:09:33] [discord] i think that it is easier but the trade-off is that fandom just causes problems for everyone [06:09:34] [discord] both work [06:09:36] [discord] huh, thats weird because the cookie run one is working fine [06:09:41] [discord] in talk pages? [06:09:56] [discord] uhhhh im only using filegarden because my wiki wont let me upload woff2s [06:10:04] [discord] or ttfs or otfs or woffs [06:10:05] [discord] have to change [06:10:05] [discord] Yeah [06:10:07] [discord] supported file formats [06:10:08] [discord] where [06:10:10] [discord] Just look at my talk page [06:10:10] [discord] in managewiki [06:10:12] [discord] [06:10:13] [url] User talk:Agent Isai - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [06:10:13] [discord] thank you [06:10:15] [discord] yoo this is informative thx so much, ill try to use some esp the fallout fandom wiki tactic [06:10:17] [discord] which I should look at too lol [06:10:24] [discord] np [06:10:28] [discord] its not 100% complete yet [06:10:30] [discord] it will be missing some stuff [06:10:40] [discord] but from what i can tell there is nothing completely incorrect or useless there [06:10:43] [discord] uhhhh where from managewiki [06:10:47] [discord] just not formatted well/lacking in information [06:11:22] [discord] add something about the google search console, its really helpful [06:11:23] [discord] oh nvm found it [06:11:25] [discord] thank you [06:11:32] [discord] yea ik about that [06:11:36] [discord] notaracham wrote a guide about it [06:11:41] [discord] along with the wikiseo plugin [06:11:56] [discord] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/User:NotAracham/WikiSEO_-_Improving_Search_Ranking [06:11:57] [discord] link? [06:11:57] [url] User:NotAracham/WikiSEO - Improving Search Ranking - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [06:12:30] [discord] thanks [06:12:31] [discord] hope it helps ^ [06:12:32] [discord] np [06:12:57] [discord] wonder what else we could do to improve seo, but so far it's going good, my wiki cant beat wikipedia tho :? [06:13:01] [discord] ah, that was this all this time lol [06:13:02] [discord] and the newer ver looks closer to flow? [06:13:08] [discord] looking into it [06:13:12] [discord] yea its hard to outrank wikipedia [06:13:17] [discord] Yup [06:13:18] [discord] wikipedia has a lot of sites linking to it [06:13:24] [discord] Look at my Betaheze talk page [06:13:26] [discord] yeah the backlinks are crazy [06:13:27] [discord] [06:13:28] [url] User talk:Agent Isai - Betaheze | beta.betaheze.org [06:13:33] [discord] google tries to prioritize what they think is most helpful but some amount of that is judged from what other sites do [06:13:36] [discord] https://mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DiscussionTools [06:13:37] [url] Extension:DiscussionTools - MediaWiki | mediawiki.org [06:13:53] [discord] the early days of making a site rank are the hardest ones imo [06:14:03] [discord] anyway i gtg sleep soon probably [06:14:07] [discord] yeah, if its about a broad topic, especially hard [06:14:18] [discord] oh look, the Google SEO never does not mess up when trying to send users to the Chinese Wikipedia [06:14:45] [discord] yea [06:16:35] [discord] thanks everyone [06:17:48] [discord] hm, still isnt working for some reason [06:17:48] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065515400789512202/image.png [06:18:20] [discord] (note cookie run one works fine and should probably be ignored) [06:18:25] [discord] private wikis eh [06:20:42] [discord] google vision ai thinks that the miraheze logo is a football [06:20:55] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065516186663649290/image.png [06:21:49] [discord] The logo is very very complex [06:22:02] [discord] It's exactly what you think it is but at the same time it's not [06:22:10] [discord] what is it [06:22:15] [discord] flower [06:22:25] [discord] oh i thought it was a honeycomb lol [06:22:46] [discord] sort of what it looks like upon first sight sincw it's a hexagon [06:23:00] [discord] i thought it was some random shapes [06:23:02] [discord] ye [06:23:43] [discord] It's the MediaWiki flower combined with the hexagons of a honeycomb to show the resiliency and versatility of the community and of MediaWiki as software [06:23:52] [discord] also if you get a chance see DMs? [06:24:01] [discord] thats actually very interesting [06:24:06] [discord] wowow that's complicated [06:24:08] [discord] thats cute [06:24:17] [discord] i like the resiliency and versatility message though [06:25:29] [discord] I'll add that to the FAQ actually [06:25:31] [discord] it also thinks that the public test wiki logo is either a traffic sign or the logo of the "Australian International School Singapore", and reads the text as "P u b l i c W i k i T E S T" [06:25:32] [discord] very good question [06:25:35] [discord] yes [06:25:38] [discord] wow [06:25:42] [discord] indeed it is [06:25:44] [discord] also would've thought that since the mediawiki logo was updated [06:25:55] [discord] maybe the MH logo would be as well since it mimics the MW logo? [06:25:58] [discord] That logo definitely needs an update [06:25:58] [discord] in a sense [06:26:08] [discord] hmm [06:26:13] [discord] yeah it does lmao [06:26:18] [discord] yeah for sure [06:26:19] [discord] Well, the MW logo went from 3D -> 2D [06:26:22] [discord] our logo is already 2D [06:26:23] [discord] lol [06:26:24] [discord] whenever someone says MH i think of miraheze [06:26:30] [discord] honeycomb was my first thought, already knowing that mediawiki had flower [06:26:31] [discord] no i mean the color palette [06:26:32] [discord] not much you can do with a set of 7 hexagons [06:26:46] [discord] maybe make it more yellow? šŸ˜† [06:27:06] [discord] well the MW logo isn't even a flower anymore right [06:27:17] [discord] it i [06:27:20] [discord] a flower [06:27:24] [discord] yeah, I mean I've seen it before change lol [06:27:31] [discord] it's like some reddish-blue circle [06:27:38] [discord] purpleish [06:27:40] [discord] now it's closer to a strange sun [06:27:46] [discord] yeah [06:27:52] [discord] I think our logo is fine how it is. It is still a flower technically. [06:27:53] [discord] very stylised abstract flower [06:27:58] [discord] no [06:28:02] [discord] its this [06:28:02] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065517975555280916/mediawikiwiki.png [06:28:09] [discord] I absolutely love MH logo [06:28:10] [discord] that is a flower [06:28:14] [discord] yea [06:28:15] [discord] same [06:28:20] [discord] i dont think it needs an update [06:28:25] [discord] nobody wants change either ngl [06:28:29] [discord] change is bad [06:28:34] [discord] There is no need to change the logo imo [06:28:39] [discord] *remember when I tried to design a mascot for Miraheze and y'all igmored lol* [06:28:46] [discord] definitely agree, the MH logo is one that feels simple yet complex, in that in can likely last for a *long time* [06:28:53] [discord] heh, I think we forgot [06:28:54] [discord] hey thats a good idea [06:29:00] [discord] I liked your mascot though [06:29:02] [discord] miraheze mascot [06:29:07] [discord] very good idea [06:29:09] [discord] What does definitely need a new update is the Public Test Wiki logo [06:29:19] [discord] I liked the old Orain TestWiki logo tbh [06:29:20] [discord] yes, though i am a fan of the devwiki logo [06:29:30] [discord] yea it needs to be fixed [06:29:31] [discord] ooo yeah, devwiki's logo is great! [06:29:36] [discord] Props to @Lake I think? [06:29:44] [discord] perhaps we make the logo for PTW the same as devwiki and commons, in a sense? [06:29:46] [discord] maybe he can also help design a logo fro PTW [06:29:54] [discord] different color palette but remains the hexagons [06:30:01] [discord] to fit with the MH theme [06:30:01] [discord] Yeah, we could make it a hexagon of hexagons but red lol [06:30:13] [discord] yeah, red on the outside with white in the middle? [06:30:28] [discord] the white might be easy to miss [06:30:34] [discord] due to the white background of Vector [06:30:36] [discord] :NotdoneMH: and :DoneMH: in hexagons for test wiki [06:30:40] [discord] lol [06:30:43] [discord] ah yes, i forgot [06:30:44] [discord] heh [06:30:46] [discord] I might be able to design a logo for PTW also. I had some ideas for that a while ago. But I decided not to do any work on it unless for sure a change would be used. [06:30:47] [discord] light gray? [06:30:58] [discord] It's definitely needed! [06:31:02] [discord] yeah i think that if you designed one now, it would be used [06:31:12] [discord] imo the PTW logo is outdated [06:31:34] [discord] I want to also have PTW be endorsed as an official Miraheze project and then change it's wordmark to match all the other official Miraheze wiki's wordmarks [06:31:41] [discord] also out of curiosity do you know why the URL for PTW was changed to publictestwiki.com instead of test.miraheze.org? [06:31:58] [discord] personal choice, I think NDK liked the URL better [06:31:58] [discord] like you said above it doesn't really match with the official miraheze project type thing [06:32:19] [discord] I just thought an anthropomorphic carroon mascot would make the raw experience of miraheze wiki admining a bit more friendly lol [06:32:23] [discord] yeah, though this: https://discord.com/channels/407504499280707585/407537962553966603/1065518966468005888 probably is relevant [06:32:24] [url] Discord | discord.com [06:32:27] [discord] at this point in time [06:32:28] [discord] For it to be official we would have to remove the custom domain imo [06:32:41] [discord] tbh i would support that [06:32:43] [discord] it's the right move [06:32:46] [discord] RIP [06:32:52] [discord] what would the public test wiki staff think [06:32:55] [discord] dont infringe on their [06:32:58] [discord] autonomy [06:33:03] [discord] instead of publictestwiki.com being the default URL and test.miraheze.org being the redirect [06:33:04] [discord] flip it [06:33:12] [discord] PTW staff = Stewards + some old sysadmins [06:33:13] [discord] ehhh it's miraheze-controlled [06:33:16] [discord] ye [06:33:28] [discord] Stewards + old sysadmins + dmehus [06:33:32] [discord] oop [06:33:39] [discord] ah [06:33:40] [discord] Stewards + old sysadmins + Doug [06:33:41] [discord] for whatever reason (there's no inactivity policy???) [06:33:45] [discord] Dmehus is still consul there? [06:33:47] [discord] Yeah [06:33:51] [discord] He never got revoked there [06:33:51] [discord] yup [06:34:05] [discord] just demote dmehus for inactivity or with no reason at all and blissfully ignore anyone who asks [06:34:06] [discord] which is confusing given that all the issues with him originally started there [06:34:07] [discord] Oh for some reason I was thinking it was. [06:34:13] [discord] regarding apex [06:34:23] [discord] or maybe link them to wp:there's a reason you don't know, which is more accurate [06:34:42] [discord] That'd be very unfortunate sad to do though [06:34:43] [discord] yeah that's what i thought too, but for some reason there's an inactivity policy for admin/crat but not consul [06:34:48] [discord] I'm sure you're aware of his history [06:34:51] [discord] im not [06:34:52] [discord] srry [06:34:54] [discord] i wasnt around then [06:35:01] [discord] Well, he was demoted from Steward [06:35:03] [discord] the whole drama is on [[RfS]] [06:35:03] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/RfS [06:35:04] [discord] [06:35:05] [url] Requests for Stewardship - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [06:35:14] [discord] in his resignation, he said he still wanted to focus on TestWiki [06:35:21] [discord] so I say we leave him in peace [06:35:28] [discord] behold, the drama [06:35:40] [discord] ah [06:35:45] [discord] I think PTW should have a consul inactivity clause. [06:35:58] [discord] tbh I missed most of it too [06:36:01] [discord] well he was nearly fired but just announced he quit beforehand [06:36:06] [discord] but you know [06:36:11] [discord] Over half of the consul team would get kicked off lol [06:36:21] [discord] imo that would be fine? [06:36:24] [discord] whatever ig [06:36:28] [discord] probably so tbh [06:36:31] [discord] maybe thats good [06:36:38] [discord] 1 year inactivity clause would? [06:36:39] [discord] I mean, no real good reason to hold on to a hat you don't use [06:36:40] [discord] tbqh it's just a hat on their account if they're not using it [06:36:45] [discord] p much [06:36:51] [discord] Probably so, I think SPF is still a local consul lol [06:37:01] [discord] SPF? [06:37:05] [discord] Southparkfan [06:37:06] [discord] I didn't think SPF ever was? [06:37:10] [discord] uh [06:37:13] [discord] I thought he was [06:37:21] [discord] [[testwiki:TestWiki:Consuls]] [06:37:21] https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/TestWiki:Consuls [06:37:22] [discord] [06:37:23] [url] TestWiki:Consuls - TestWiki | publictestwiki.com [06:37:31] [discord] Oh [06:37:32] [discord] ye but i didn't think he was ever a consul [06:37:50] [discord] I'm thinking of the inactivity removal exemptions [06:37:53] [discord] https://publictestwiki.com/wiki/Special:ListUsers?username=&group=consul&wpsubmit=&wpFormIdentifier=mw-listusers-form&limit=50 [06:37:54] [url] User list - TestWiki | publictestwiki.com [06:37:54] [discord] this is the list [06:38:36] [discord] I'm thinking of [06:38:40] [url] TestWiki:Inactivity/Exceptions - TestWiki | publictestwiki.com [06:38:50] [discord] That should be reviewed also. [06:38:52] [discord] Agent (obviously active lolol) [06:38:53] [discord] Dmehus (tbd) [06:38:54] [discord] NDK (inactive) [06:38:56] [discord] Reception (active) [06:38:57] [discord] Void (sorta) [06:38:58] [discord] Zppix (sorta) [06:39:08] [discord] The current list is probably fine [06:39:22] [discord] NDK is inactive but he owns the domain so 1984 \:P [06:39:39] [discord] agree, too many users that don't really need to be on there [06:39:46] [discord] they can rerequest rights as stated anyway [06:40:08] [discord] Especially the temporary exemption there should be reviewed? How long was temporary? [06:40:08] [discord] yes but we can change the URL of the wiki to test.miraheze.org right [06:40:15] [discord] he doesn't need to do anything on his end [06:40:36] [discord] Still paying for it. [06:40:41] [discord] HeartsDo should be removed from that [06:40:46] [discord] Foreverā„¢ļø [06:40:47] [discord] I can't edit though [06:41:03] [discord] does he ever respond to DMs or emails at all [06:41:08] [discord] Yes. [06:41:21] [discord] we could notify him of that [06:41:27] [discord] *if* we decide to change it [06:41:42] [discord] It was just renewed for this year a couple weeks ago I think. [06:41:49] [discord] He did, indeed [06:42:01] [discord] Orain TestWiki had very prime domain real estate [06:42:06] [discord] They held testwiki.org [06:42:09] [discord] oof [06:42:15] [discord] too bad we didn't snatch that up like we did orain.org [06:42:48] [discord] oh wow i just saw that [06:42:48] [discord] lolol [06:42:59] [discord] that's interesting [06:43:00] [discord] RIP Orain [06:43:08] [discord] so quickly to recap [06:43:10] [discord] re PTW [06:43:17] [discord] 1) New logo [06:43:17] [discord] 2) New domain [06:43:28] [discord] 3) Bring into official MH project fold [06:43:46] [discord] idk about #2 but definitely #1 and #3 [06:43:51] [discord] 4) Review inactivity clause for consuls and approve/deny exemptions? [06:44:04] [discord] oh yeah, that'll be done too [06:44:09] [discord] like @CosmicAlpha said earlier, #3 is prolly only possible if #2 is done [06:44:11] [discord] when I wake up in 4 hours [06:44:28] [discord] #3 is possible either way but #2 would be advisable [06:44:32] [discord] dev.miraheze.org, commons.miraheze.org, meta.miraheze.org...publictestwiki.com??? [06:44:35] [discord] true [06:44:48] [discord] testmiraheze.net [06:44:58] [discord] is it available [06:45:11] [discord] testmiraheze.org would be better but not sure if it's around to be taken [06:45:59] [discord] @Agent FYI this is available for $12/year [06:46:05] [discord] so $1/month [06:46:11] [discord] too expensive [06:46:17] [discord] oops [06:46:50] [discord] would all of this have to be approved by the MH community or could SRE kind of executive-order it [06:47:35] [discord] this is in ticky-tacky gray area so i'm not sure how it would work [06:48:21] the publictestwiki.com domain is clunky and unnecessary [06:48:57] [discord] yup [06:50:38] [discord] @Agent actually now that i think about it [06:50:54] [discord] #1 and #2 could be done by SRE correct, since they're not actually changes to the wiki [06:51:02] [discord] that would affect the community in any way [06:51:17] [discord] #3 is already technically approved by MH [06:51:25] [discord] #4 would be the only thing that has to be revised? [06:53:33] What do those numbers mean [06:54:06] [discord] 1) New logo [06:54:07] [discord] 2) New domain [06:54:08] [discord] 3) Bring into official MH project fold [06:54:09] [discord] 4) Review inactivity clause for consuls and approve/deny exemptions [06:54:11] [discord] Naleksuh: ^ [06:55:02] All of those things are things I think should have been done anyway except for #1 [06:55:10] [discord] #1? [06:55:15] [discord] the old logo isn't really that good [06:55:36] I never said I like the logo, I just hadn't had the thought of replacing it [06:55:45] [discord] ah okay [06:55:46] I have thought of all your other changed though, so I agree with them [06:56:10] [discord] If we replaced it, it'd probably be just modifying the Miraheze logo, changing it from yellow to red and placing a testing tube in the middle or something [06:56:25] [discord] that seems like a good change [06:56:40] [discord] no need to MH community approve it though right? [06:57:09] [discord] like the outcome is likely going to be in favor [06:57:14] [discord] The local PTW community would probably have to ratify any new logo as the old logo is actually there by consensus lol [06:57:21] [discord] "consensus" [06:57:29] [discord] It was like 1 vote in favor and no one against [06:57:30] [discord] šŸ¤Ø [06:57:42] Also stop calling testwiki PTW [06:57:50] That acronym won't make sense once the custom domain is gone [06:57:56] [discord] true [06:57:58] [discord] TW I guess [06:58:03] [discord] once we come up with an alternative i assume we can just put it on the community portal [06:58:05] [discord] yeah TW works [06:58:10] [discord] Yeah [06:58:13] No it doesn't that means twinkle [06:58:17] Just say testwiki [06:58:29] [discord] Twinkle isn't so widely used on Miraheze [06:58:37] [discord] so it's unlikely we'll mix up the meaning [06:58:40] Testwiki isn't even that long [06:58:43] [discord] yeah that's more a WM thing [06:58:54] [discord] It's long when you're on mobile and it's 2am lol [06:59:20] [discord] twstw [06:59:28] [discord] anyhow, it'll be interesting to see how everything progresses on testwiki [06:59:30] [discord] testw [06:59:37] [discord] testwikipedia [06:59:40] [discord] is the domain there by consensus? [06:59:43] [discord] miraheze test wiki pedia [06:59:44] [discord] does that exist [06:59:48] [discord] no [07:00:03] [discord] I think so, https://test.wikipedia.org [07:00:04] [url] Wikipedia | test.wikipedia.org [07:00:30] [discord] oh i believe that's like test2 for us [07:00:37] [discord] Betaheze* [07:00:43] [discord] test2wiki died a while ago [07:00:53] [discord] oh right lol mb [07:01:01] [discord] it gets hard to keep track sometimes [07:01:18] [discord] haven't heard much about bh recently [07:01:38] [discord] It's alive and kicking, we used it to test MediaWiki 1.39 [07:02:04] [discord] oh right [07:02:16] [discord] is it going to be moved to 1.40 soon? [07:02:31] [discord] also surprised that since MW 1.40 is still in beta, it's deployed everywhere on wikimedia [07:02:33] [discord] when MW 1.40 beta is released, yes [07:02:44] [discord] you'd think they'd be more cautious with a beta [07:02:56] [discord] or there's just something i don't know regarding it [07:03:14] [discord] Their dev team is big enough to iron out bugs before deploying [07:03:33] [discord] They deploy updates to 3 separate groups [07:04:06] [discord] Group 1 being test wikis and small, unimportant wikis, group 2 being medium wikis and group 3 being wikis like enwiki [07:04:24] [discord] there are small wikis as part of wikimedia? [07:04:38] [discord] Plenty [07:04:40] [discord] thought it was stuff like metawiki, commons, enwiki, wikidata, wikisource, etc. [07:04:44] [discord] 90% of Wikimedia wikis are small [07:04:50] [discord] which ones [07:04:58] [discord] well, there's different language editions of each Wikimedia project [07:05:13] [discord] so all in all, that forms like 1000 wikis [07:05:53] [discord] oh huh [07:05:56] [discord] that makes sense [07:06:41] [discord] also see DMs (again) [07:35:25] [discord] TW stands for trigger warning too [07:35:31] [discord] also meta.miraheze.org has twinkle [07:38:51] [discord] https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/antitrust-laws [07:38:52] [url] The Antitrust Laws | Federal Trade Commission | www.ftc.gov [07:39:20] [discord] maybe its just me but dont you think fandom's attempts to stop anybody from choosing which website to use could be considered antitrust [07:48:52] [discord] https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/mergers there are also limits on what can happen during or after a merger, which i feel may apply to fandom's takeover of gamepedia (also if i need to move this somewhere else i can) [07:48:53] [url] Mergers | Federal Trade Commission | www.ftc.gov [07:49:35] [discord] you could say that if the FTC has to know about all mergers, then they must've decided that fandom is fine. however, as the FTC has said, they will rarely even disclose the *existence* of an investigation [07:49:53] [discord] so perhaps we simply dont know because the FTC doesnt have anything to say **yet** [07:50:02] [discord] or they may not have looked into it [07:50:36] [discord] on its face the acquisition is not anticompetitive, however, the behavior afterwards, in my opinion,was [07:50:49] [discord] perhaps i should ask an attorney eventually if my theory is correct [07:57:34] Yes [07:57:53] Antitrust laws are complex [08:06:47] [discord] yeah but at the end of the day it doesnt matater [08:06:57] [discord] i cant take on a multi-million dollar corporation [08:07:11] [discord] so even if im right [08:07:17] [discord] i dont have the money or time to file a lawsuit [08:07:23] [discord] and im not going to try either [10:03:37] [discord] Yeah at the end of of the day, whether something is again anti-trust, depend on the money flowing sadly [13:26:10] [discord] hi [14:00:24] [discord] Is there an extension or something like that to make redlinks as normal text for logged out users? [14:15:26] [discord] There is not [14:17:00] [discord] You could maybe hack something together with javascript to remove the links. [14:18:45] [discord] I try to not create links if there's gonna be too much of red links on a page, and made category for such pages [14:18:45] [discord] still have over 90 wanted pages atm lol [14:18:47] [discord] bit otherwise would have muuuch more [14:18:54] [discord] there does seem to be an extension that miraheze doesnt have called removeredlinks. maybe you could request it [14:24:39] [discord] a Version 0.1, so my geuss is it would not be mature/stable enough to be accepted tbh, but you never know ofc [14:25:54] [discord] yeah. it's a short file though, so maybe its simple enough to scan through and see if its safe [14:27:04] [discord] oh there's two different extensions called that on github [14:27:36] [discord] I believe that extension disables cache which is an issue [14:27:46] [discord] Rhinos mentioned cache can be split so that'd be a better solution [14:28:02] [discord] i see [14:28:59] [discord] both of them disable cache? [14:29:00] [discord] https://github.com/kolzchut/mediawiki-RemoveRedlinks [14:29:02] [url] GitHub - kolzchut/mediawiki-RemoveRedlinks: Removes all redlinks from page output for certain groups | github.com [14:29:02] [discord] https://github.com/marohh/mediawikiRemoveRedlinks [14:29:03] [url] GitHub - marohh/mediawikiRemoveRedlinks: A Mediawiki Extension to remove Red Links for users not logged in | github.com [14:32:06] [discord] Above one is from 2016, which is likely incompatible with current version [14:32:06] [discord] The underneath one is quite recently, tested on MW1.37 [14:32:56] [discord] Would be nice if MH does add that [14:33:18] [discord] good point [14:33:53] [discord] Can't you just JS them in, they all have the new class [14:34:02] [discord] Why need a whole extension [14:34:13] [discord] Likely not able to JS them [14:34:54] [discord] you can try a hack with css [14:35:02] [discord] Google Crawler does actually read HTML and use JS can make the page sus [14:35:05] [discord] go to the .css page for anonymous users [14:35:17] [discord] and [14:35:19] [discord] ```css [14:35:20] [discord] a.new { pointer-events: none } [14:35:21] [discord] ``` [14:36:46] [discord] will need to change the color too [14:37:56] [discord] oh wait, how to make css runs on only anon? [14:39:02] [discord] I don't remember which page but you can make specific styles for each user group [14:39:26] [discord] (and technically logged out users are also an user group) [14:39:32] [discord] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:User_group_CSS_and_JavaScript [14:39:32] [url] Manual:User group CSS and JavaScript - MediaWiki | www.mediawiki.org [14:41:05] [discord] i dont think theres a css page for logged out users. you can do the css for all users in common.css, then undo it for logged in users at Group-user.css [14:45:05] [discord] this code doesn't seems to work [14:45:11] [discord] or my wiki is bugged [14:47:49] [discord] Oh well, doesn't seems to hide the link, it just disable clicking function [14:47:50] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065643750824615976/image.png [14:48:24] [discord] And still red [14:48:55] [discord] yeah thats all it does. the link is still there if you like tab to it and press enter [14:49:08] [discord] and you can change the color with other code [14:49:49] [discord] The remove red link extension is made to completely remove red link for anon users [14:49:59] [discord] and hence boost Google SEO [14:50:39] [discord] yeah css definitely cant do it as well as the extension [14:59:56] [discord] yeah, that is just a hack for clicking [15:00:09] [discord] but overall you should not not have red links on a page [15:00:15] [discord] so it's possible? [15:00:50] [discord] Fandom does remove red links completely so I think it's possible [15:06:47] [discord] ```css [15:06:48] [discord] a.new { [15:06:49] [discord] pointer-events: none; [15:06:50] [discord] color: inherit; [15:06:51] [discord] } [15:06:53] [discord] [15:06:54] [discord] a.new:hover { text-decoration: none } [15:06:55] [discord] ```@max20091 [15:07:51] [discord] refer to the image above [15:07:51] [discord] doing that makes crawlers even more suspicious [15:08:28] [discord] the red link must be replaced with normal text when viewed by anons [15:08:31] [discord] Honestly the sole purpose is to not let them use the links directly [15:10:43] [discord] Red links have their own purpose, if your only target is to not show them then CSS is well enough [15:11:20] [discord] I mean if the link is still there, it will make SEO even worse as it does count as black hat SEO [15:11:36] [discord] would rather makes the link red than incomplete hiding [15:12:11] [discord] > Hidden links were initially introduced by black hat SEO practitioners to manipulate search engines. Whereas the styling conceals the links from web visitors, their underlying HTML structure keeps them discoverable by search engines ā€“ which is then intended to favorably influence ranking algorithms. [15:12:11] [discord] https://loganix.com/hidden-links/ [15:12:13] [url] Hidden Links & SEO: How Google Handles Them (Updated: 2023) | loganix.com [15:13:18] [discord] From what I read from the remove red link extension, it convert red links into normal text so it doesn't count as black hat SEO [15:15:09] [discord] I meant via css [15:15:55] [discord] ah, I see [16:15:21] [discord] i believe their goal was SEO, similarly to what fandom did [16:15:32] [discord] unfortunately there is not an extension for that [16:16:44] [discord] they mean that a user with javascript disabled needs to have the link lead nowhere [16:21:03] [discord] i mean, a user with JS disabled should not even be browsing the internet, lol [16:22:49] [discord] Buddy, have I got some horror stories for you about "privacy concerned users". šŸ¤£ [16:22:59] [discord] no [16:23:01] [discord] they should [16:23:12] [discord] i use tor on safest level (this disables javascript) [16:23:15] [discord] to browse static websites [16:23:19] [discord] it works fine [16:23:34] [discord] but on tor makes sense [16:23:49] [discord] but disabling on chrome or firefox, it's 99% of the time just for "ideological" reasons of privacy [16:23:59] [discord] stallman-like stuff [16:25:01] [discord] disabling js on chrome or firefox is a terrible idea [16:25:05] [discord] it will break everything [16:25:21] [discord] And yet, people will do it [16:25:21] [discord] i use tor on safest level to visit static sites that i dont find trustworthy [16:25:23] [discord] shady sites [16:25:24] [discord] etc [16:25:34] [discord] but i dont browse everything day-to-day without js [16:25:43] [discord] ~~on fandom it would be mostly a benefit~~ [16:25:51] [discord] well yes lmao [16:26:12] [discord] i tested that too, you can read all the fandom article contents without any ads or anything else by using safest level in tor [16:26:39] [discord] I think only the search won't work but considering the rest, it's a good tradeoff [16:26:47] [discord] yeah [16:26:59] [discord] well you can go to Special:Search and manually put something in then press enter [16:27:02] [discord] and then you can get the results [16:27:06] [discord] Yep I'm trying to boost seo [16:27:12] [discord] yea makes sense [16:27:21] [discord] dont think theres a way to do the same thing as fandom w/ redlinks *yet* [16:27:28] [discord] šŸ˜” [16:27:30] [discord] but i've been thinking about making an extension [16:27:34] [discord] Might have to commission someone [16:27:37] [discord] to do it [16:27:49] [discord] if I knew php I would have built a ton of extensions already [16:27:51] [discord] :P [16:28:05] [discord] you would have to get someone to make an extension and if your wiki is on miraheze maybe ask miraheze to add the extension too [16:28:09] [discord] all wikis share the same codebase however [16:28:23] [discord] + miraheze is open source [16:28:31] [discord] Need to hire the fandom dev who made the extension to share the code lool [16:28:36] [discord] Or make a new version [16:28:58] [discord] you might be able to find something on Wikia/app (their pre-UCP code is open source) but it'd have to be heavily changed because new mediawiki versions [16:29:14] [discord] you could contact CosmicAlpha once he returns [16:29:18] [discord] yeah, that's 1.19 code which is likely 1000% deprecated [16:29:25] [discord] he is good with MW's internal stuff [16:29:28] [discord] the second linked RedLinks extension looks interesting though [16:29:51] [discord] once someone figures out [16:30:06] [discord] if theres an extension [16:30:08] [discord] or makes one [16:30:18] [discord] miraheze should consider using it [16:30:48] [discord] I got an idea to boost seo, maybe we could like add the wordmark and link of other wikis on our main page and make them "affiliates", once it crawls the main page, maybe it'll also crawl the other linked wikis [16:31:38] [discord] i've done something similar [16:31:48] [discord] with genshin impact wiki and miraheze wiki [16:32:19] [discord] https://genshinimpact.miraheze.org/wiki/Genshin_Impact_Wiki see: [16:32:20] [url] Genshin Impact Wiki | genshinimpact.miraheze.org [16:32:20] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065670049244905513/image.png [16:33:24] [discord] do they crawl this? [16:33:30] [discord] yes [16:33:38] [discord] at least on genshin wiki where i made things dofollow [16:33:41] [discord] is a good candidate. If anyone is interested, you can make a Phabricator ticket requesting it be installed [16:33:42] [url] Extension:RemoveRedlinks - MediaWiki | www.mediawiki.org [16:33:54] [discord] wait [16:33:55] [discord] wt [16:33:59] [discord] i set it to nofolllow somehow [16:34:11] [discord] lemme fix it hold on [16:34:19] [discord] I need to update my seo knowledge on MW [16:34:29] [discord] MW is horrible at SEO [16:34:32] [discord] i've been working mostly on just regular websites [16:34:39] [discord] the features WikiSEO offers should be in core tbh [16:34:41] [discord] where I just directly set stuff on [16:35:18] [discord] Um... I cant login to my account that had been renamed [16:35:18] [discord] only the last wiki(zhpol~) has been failed in progress [16:35:19] [discord] So, is here any moderators could help or explain about this? [16:35:21] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065670799391997996/Screenshot_20230120-013039_Samsung_Internet.jpg [16:35:47] [discord] @Reception123 ^ [16:36:00] [discord] dw its not like i know anything more than you [16:36:10] [discord] i've stolen most of this from fandom or from google's official resources about seo [16:36:48] [discord] alright got it [16:36:50] [discord] i may do so [16:36:54] [discord] Thanks [16:37:03] [discord] my head.tsx on my website looks like this [16:37:03] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065671240200753264/image.png [16:37:50] [discord] good work [16:38:30] [discord] not that again... [16:38:41] [discord] what's the username? [16:38:41] [discord] ~~yes I use nodejs, don't spank me~~ [16:38:59] [discord] BlackCrow0914 -> DiasPlotinus [16:39:30] [discord] have you tried turning it off and back on again [16:40:15] [discord] for.... what....? [16:40:21] [discord] no clue[ [16:40:25] [discord] i was joking [16:40:36] [discord] Ok lol [16:43:48] [discord] /auth [16:51:54] [discord] https://phabricator.miraheze.org/T10310 opened a ticket [16:51:55] [url] āš“ T10310 Add Extension:RemoveRedlinks | phabricator.miraheze.org [16:55:20] [discord] yoooooooooooooooooooooo popups now use the WikiSEO image!! [16:56:01] [discord] thats good [16:57:08] [discord] Hey @Agent just catching up with that. Did you have a chance to look into it? [17:01:08] [discord] ok for some reason it cant find the image on some page but does on others... [17:02:19] [discord] bruh I hope thats not it [17:03:06] [discord] but the only difference between the pages where the Page Image works and doesnt work is that the image file is without caps [17:04:00] [discord] nevermind one without caps doesnt work [17:06:03] [discord] ok found the issue [17:06:19] [discord] basically needs nothing else on the same line [17:30:27] [discord] WikiSEO always has been unable to find SEOImage in galleries? [17:45:53] [discord] I'm a *little* worried that the Extension:RemoveRedlinks hasn't been updated in two years and officially only supports 1.32 [17:46:08] [discord] But, worst case, it does provide a good starting point... [17:46:37] Hello Guest9036! If you have any questions, feel free to ask and someone should answer soon. [17:48:35] hi. a bit embarrassed to be asking for help so soon but I'm new to miraheze and wondering if anybody could talk me through the process (if it's possible at all) of creating infoboxes and infobox templates on a new Miraheze wiki.Ā  My students will be creating pages for simulated countries and I'm trying to create something like the Infobox country [17:48:35] template for them to use.Ā  Thanks so much. [17:49:50] [discord] While wikipedia-style infoboxes *can* work, they have a ton of dependencies to get set up. If you're just getting started, I'd recommend using the Portable Infobox extension instead to build something similar. [17:51:04] [discord] The extension has a visual builder tool that you can access via the Special:InfoboxBuilder page to get a basic template going, but you can get something a lot more robust when building it yourself from scratch. [17:51:13] [discord] And don't be embarrased about asking for help, we can't all be experts at everything šŸ™‚ [17:51:51] [discord] That might look a little daunting, but we have the same implementation as Fandom so all of their help documents work great here too. šŸ˜„ [17:51:51] [discord] [17:51:52] [discord] PortableInfobox Main Documentation (fandom) - https://portability.fandom.com/wiki/Portable_Infoboxes [17:51:53] [url] Portable Infoboxes | Portability Hub | Fandom | portability.fandom.com [17:51:54] [discord] [17:51:55] [discord] Generalized Help Page with Examples (fandom) - https://community.fandom.com/wiki/Help:Infoboxes#Examples [17:51:56] [url] Help:Infoboxes | Community Central | Fandom | community.fandom.com [17:51:56] [discord] [17:51:57] [discord] Additional Implementation Examples (fandom) - https://portability.fandom.com/wiki/Example_communities#Portable_Infoboxes [17:51:59] [url] Example communities | Portability Hub | Fandom | portability.fandom.com [17:53:19] wow, you are amazing bridgebot, thanks.Ā  Let me work with this and come back if I can't figure it out.Ā  (And I so appreciate your "not experts on everything" line--I will pay your help forward with my own weird little areas of expertise :-) [17:57:12] one other question while I've got you (if I still do): does Miraheze have a visual editor (am I just missing it)? [18:02:22] [discord] I usually don't like extensions that aren't updated frequently either, but if you look at the code here it's really quite simple so I wouldn't think there's too much you can update [18:02:38] [discord] there's some very simple extensions like that that we do allow, if it's clear that there's really not much to be updated and it performs a simple function [18:03:28] [discord] Oh on that note -- it looks like the MsCalendar extension bit the dust with the move to 1.38, the calendar itself still loads but events aren't showing up on it any more. [18:05:29] [discord] Yep, still available, it can be found and enabled under Manage Extensions -> Editors [18:06:07] Guest9036: to point out, mhbridgebot is a bot linking here to discord. Not a human. You should thank notaracham [18:06:33] The discord is miraheze.org/discord [18:06:36] [discord] If a page isn't showing the option after enabling it, you can always manually force it to go to visual editor by changing the URL from &action=edit to &veaction=edit [18:07:30] sorry, thanks NotArcham! (and thanks RhinosF1 for pointing that out). [18:07:39] :) [18:08:00] heh, yep, the bridgebot is just the connector tool, the username after [discord] is the actual user from the discord side. I rarely use IRC, popped over here to see what it looks like. [18:08:02] wow, such a welcoming space! [18:09:49] Guest9036: just to let you know, we donā€™t allow users under 13 so make sure your students are over 13 [18:10:30] [discord] Feel free to ask as questions come up, we're here to help as we're able. The discord side of things also has a support 'forum' for more complicated questions that'll take more than a few messages to solve. [18:10:31] If they are, they've gotten into college pretty young! [18:10:41] I would also recommend they sign up using their school email (but donā€™t mention the school or their real name anywhere public) so itā€™s easier to recover access if they loose it [18:10:59] great idea on signup! [18:11:47] What age is college in I assume America? [18:11:58] * RhinosF1 is British, American education system confuses him [18:12:13] [discord] Usually 18+, though some can join earlier. [18:12:49] RhinosF1: usually 18 though I have a few who take advanced courses and enroll at 17 or even 16 (about one in 300)... [18:12:53] College could be anything from 14-21 here [18:12:59] Normally 14-18 though [18:13:18] Although places like Oxford use the term college [18:13:33] Guest9036: ah [18:15:38] [discord] Sorry about that, should be fixed now [18:16:39] [discord] How can I give someone admin perms on my wiki? [18:17:33] [discord] at the Special:UserRights page [18:17:52] [discord] thanks [18:19:54] [discord] nop [19:03:49] [discord] nvm same issue as before, should have text on the same line [19:12:36] [discord] Anyone knows if I can skip a line with MassEditRegex? [19:12:37] [discord] If yes, how could i make any [19:12:39] [discord] ```.``` [19:12:40] [discord] be [19:12:41] [discord] ``` [19:12:43] [discord] . [19:12:44] [discord] [19:12:45] [discord] ``` [19:17:02] [discord] Maybe insert a
tag? [19:18:48] [discord] So I attempted to enable the Forum extension on my wiki but no special page is created... I've cleared cache and cookies and purged and I have social profile enabled. Any ideas? [19:21:00] [discord] Yeah, a newline return, not br, text would still be considered on the same line and cause the issue im having with PageImage [19:21:33] [discord] Something with \n then, since iirc MassEditRegex takes the replacement as regex as well [19:21:59] [discord] (`\n`) stands for newline [19:22:32] [discord] But you'd have to test that, not 100% sure. [19:25:52] [discord] So replace with [19:25:53] [discord] ``` [19:25:54] [discord] .\n [19:25:56] [discord] [19:25:57] [discord] ``` [19:25:58] [discord] ? [19:27:20] [discord] well, the regex should convert \n into a return [19:27:41] [discord] Not my domain of expertise, but @florigon might have some insights for you [19:37:19] [discord] you mean in the Replace With box? [19:39:47] [discord] this should work [19:41:23] [discord] oh dont put your own line break, just use: [19:41:24] [discord] `.\n` [19:42:39] [discord] Ah alr [19:43:14] [discord] /auth [19:49:04] [discord] 'Lo, ev'ryone. Can't figure out how to prevent this from happening. The bullets are too large. :/ [19:49:05] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1065719564748460092/image.png [19:49:52] [discord] I've gone into the CSS of the navbox module and the Common.CSS... [19:49:59] [discord] I'm at a complete loss. [19:50:11] [discord] can you link that page? [19:50:56] [discord] https://readerswhoknow.paneidoverse.com/wiki/Dee_Vee [19:50:57] [url] Dee Vee - Readers Who Know: The Paneidoverse Encyclopedia | readerswhoknow.paneidoverse.com [19:55:43] [discord] So I think a combination of font-size and the ul li tag specification could do what you want. [19:55:44] [discord] [19:55:46] [discord] General CSS list stuff: https://www.w3schools.com/css/css_list.asp [19:55:46] [url] CSS Styling Lists | www.w3schools.com [19:55:47] [discord] Example of the problem and potential solutions: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6457059/customize-list-item-bullets-using-css [19:55:48] [url] size - Customize list item bullets using CSS - Stack Overflow | stackoverflow.com [19:57:14] [discord] Hmm... [19:57:34] [discord] I don't mean the bullets themselves, but the bullets and the content, too. [19:59:16] [discord] do you define the
    yourself somewhere? [19:59:54] [discord] if so, you can add a class like
      then change the font-size of that class in the css [20:00:11] [discord] Huh. I'll try that... [20:01:53] [discord] actually that doesnt seem to work [20:04:44] [discord] oh it has to be the li that gets the font-size. so still add the class to the ul, and in the css, you'd put [20:04:45] [discord] ```.bullets li { [20:04:46] [discord] font-size:5px [20:04:48] [discord] }``` [20:05:28] [discord] I'm most of the way there w/ an alternate approach that's specific to bulleted lists and will leave numbered lists alone [20:05:46] [discord] nice [20:05:56] [discord] Uh... [20:06:28] [discord] So, I'm gonna have to muck with the infobox css? [20:06:38] [discord] :thinkcrazy: [20:06:48] [discord] the css can just go in common.css [20:07:55] [discord] Hmm... [20:08:10] [discord] how likely is it that the new update will cause data loss [20:08:15] [discord] i am keeping backups manually regardless [20:13:01] [discord] Low likelihood, backups are being done before the update, extra redundancy is never a bad idea though [20:16:11] [discord] alright got it [20:24:44] [discord] A MediaWiki upgrade shouldn't cause data loss [20:25:03] [discord] The last incident was purely negligence where a disk was pulled out of a running server [20:25:09] [discord] This time, it's just software [20:25:18] [discord] alright [20:25:20] [discord] I don't think we've ever incurred in data loss during a MediaWiki upgrade [20:25:24] [discord] got it [20:30:41] [discord] Hey guys, any tips on getting past Wikipedia/fandom? They occupy the top 4 spots [20:30:46] [discord] on Google [20:30:54] [discord] Even tho they are about diff topics [20:32:43] [discord] So interestingly, the bullets themselves are apparently not traditional text but a standardized unicode icon that's harder to override. [20:32:43] [discord] [20:32:45] [discord] Here's where I got to on changing the list text size, though: [20:32:46] [discord] ```.mw-content-ltr ul { [20:32:47] [discord] font-size:50px; [20:32:49] [discord] }``` [20:32:50] [discord] [20:32:51] [discord] (50px will be HUGE, so adjust as you see fit) [20:33:10] [discord] One of our CSS volunteers might be able to get you over that last mile of changes [20:35:02] [discord] We actually have two guides in progress on this, I seem to recall you've already set up WikiSEO, but if not, there's now a guide for it and another in-progress one for general SEO: [20:35:03] [discord] [20:35:04] [discord] WikiSEO Setup - https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/User:NotAracham/WikiSEO_-_Improving_Search_Ranking [20:35:05] [url] User:NotAracham/WikiSEO - Improving Search Ranking - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [20:35:05] [discord] General SEO tips - https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/User:Collei/Improving_a_wiki%27s_SEO [20:35:06] [url] User:Collei/Improving a wiki's SEO - Miraheze Meta | meta.miraheze.org [20:39:02] [discord] Ah yeah smarter, no extra classes needed [21:27:51] [discord] Can't fault the people for becoming a bit paranoid can you? xD [22:05:12] [discord] No but I'm trying assure people this time it shouldn't be a possibility [22:23:00] [discord] Does anyone know if itd be possible using javascript to be able to press a button on one page that automatically edits and adds text to another page? [22:23:48] [discord] I know you can write a bot in JS, but im wondering if the javascript can make the edit from the user's account that clicked it [22:30:29] [discord] actually maybe i dont even need it to do that. it could be a single bot account that everyone uses when they click the button [22:30:42] [discord] i am planning on saving lots of backups regardless [22:30:44] [discord] hopefully that wouldn't be like against tos or anything [22:30:54] [discord] but i thought i'd make sure to save even more if theres a chance of new issues this update [22:31:16] [discord] Only if its excessive [22:31:21] [discord] would probably be fine as long as it doesnt do anything malicious [22:31:25] [discord] but dont quote me on that [22:31:32] [discord] then per section 8 of the ToU you could get booted off DataDump [22:31:36] [discord] otherwise you should be fine [22:32:07] [discord] datadump? are you talking about bots or collei's backups? [22:32:31] [discord] Collei's backups [22:32:48] [discord] oh my tos thing was about the bot [22:32:49] [discord] If you're asking if doing a JavaScript script to make you put text in a page is against the ToU then no, it isn't [22:33:48] [discord] ok i see, makes sense [22:34:08] [discord] JS can make edits on behalf of users [22:34:18] [discord] I've been using Void's script to auto backup at midnight every night [22:34:19] [discord] If they are logged in [22:34:38] [discord] You can not use a bot via public JS stored on your wiki [22:34:55] [discord] That would be against policy @Agent [22:35:09] [discord] got it. can you point me to a resource for your first message? [22:35:22] [discord] Mediawiki api [22:35:38] [discord] Publictestwiki has an example [22:35:40] [discord] Hang on [22:36:36] [discord] @florigon https://publictestwiki.com/wiki/User:Void/findInactiveSysops.js [22:36:37] [url] User:Void/findInactiveSysops.js - TestWiki | publictestwiki.com [22:36:51] [discord] That makes an edit when you click a link in the sidebar [22:37:01] [discord] But the make an edit doesnā€™t change [22:37:39] [discord] im not sure what this sentence means [22:39:08] [discord] The code to make an edit wonā€™t change [22:39:43] [discord] ok thanks a lot, ill start figuring out how to adapt it [22:44:26] Where on archive.org are public wiki XMLs stored? [[Backups]] only claims that they're visible, but not where to find them. [22:44:26] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Backups [22:49:20] [discord] sTRM: https://archive.org/details/@reception123 [22:49:22] [url] User Account | archive.org [22:49:29] [discord] I'll add a link to it [22:49:34] [discord] Thanks for heads up [22:49:54] Please do! [22:51:13] I might upload some as well, and have done I think maybe one recently. But also, the automated backups on [[Backups]] aren't automatically uploaded to archive.org, that is manual, they are automatically created and generated, then stored off-site, but not automatically on archive.org afaik. [22:51:13] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Backups [22:51:29] [discord] Yeah, there's a few tucked under CA's user as well [22:52:00] [discord] There should be one archive.org account [22:52:16] [discord] not multiple spread around [22:52:38] [discord] by the way guys [22:52:52] [discord] could someone please explain to me why Cargo is not recommended on wikis with +30k pages? [22:53:27] [discord] Actually, I take it back, there's only one post db141 outage from november [22:53:31] It is personal accounts, we don't have a Miraheze account. But who uploads doesn't matter, that isn't the only way to find them. https://archive.org/search?query=subject%3A%22miraheze%22 @Agent [22:53:32] [url] Internet Archive: Digital Library of Free & Borrowable Books, Movies, Music & Wayback Machine | archive.org [22:53:46] 27GB. Hm, I'm guessing that it's impractical to split up the public wikis? Heck, even putting the list of wikis included might get long in the description. [22:56:18] [discord] resource intensive for the whole farm i think [22:56:43] [discord] ^ [22:57:18] [discord] https://phabricator.miraheze.org/T9477#196643 @Lake [22:57:19] [url] āš“ T9477 Evaluate the performance of Cargo | phabricator.miraheze.org [22:58:30] [discord] oh i see [22:58:48] [discord] it makes a bit hard for me to recommend some other large wikis to use it [22:59:13] sTRM: maybe we can change how we upload them. Something I'll need to look into later. [23:00:31] [discord] Yeah, in a few months I may do another performance evaluation and see if it still has the same issues, but it won't make us change it from restricted, just to know how it is now. [23:02:18] [discord] sure [23:02:33] [discord] I'm off for today and probably tomorrow though. Wont be back until 1.39 upgrade on Saturday now. [23:02:58] [discord] working now on "common" websites, I noticed that full-server side render is now usually reserved for more specific scenarios [23:03:08] [discord] The fact that it plays so nicely w/ DPL and the possibility of malformed queries in the hands of inexperienced users suggests it'll always be a little bit risky to enable... [23:07:46] I added some proposals to test wiki based on stuff yesterday [23:49:44] [discord] Ok thanks [23:53:51] [discord] Will wiki dumps include images? [23:55:29] [discord] XML backups ahead of the upgrade are for wikitext page content only, images are stored in a different way and have separate redundancies in place [23:56:03] [discord] If you're talking about the datadumps you can instigate locally on your wiki, that's XML only for now, image dumps can be requested via Phabricator. [23:57:48] Administrators can run one on their wiki, that is. [23:58:14] [discord] this db141 wiki is now deleted? https://uv.miraheze.org/wiki/ [23:58:14] [url] Wiki not found | uv.miraheze.org