[00:25:33] [discord] Hi all [00:25:43] [discord] is there a databse type system for Wikis? [00:26:06] [discord] I was needing something more like Wikidata to keep track of some highly technical documents.. [00:46:07] [discord] There's no central data repository for Miraheze, but you can use something like Semantic MediaWiki or Wikibase to create one for your wiki [01:38:49] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1075229666274709556/image.png [01:38:52] [discord] I want that [01:39:13] [discord] I have this [01:39:14] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1075229767529402369/image.png [01:39:22] [discord] I want the background and outline [01:41:05] [discord] someone help plz [01:41:35] [discord] I saw the Miraheze Dev Wiki had it like that [01:44:35] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1075231118300811325/image.png [01:44:41] [discord] see [01:45:21] [discord] @LaneFrost you need to import MediaWiki:Common.css from the source wiki, the infobox style is not embedded with the template itself but in the Site CSS [01:45:42] [discord] how do i do that [01:47:00] [discord] ? [01:48:27] [discord] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Import ? Just like how you imported your template? [01:48:45] [discord] ik but what page Im confused [01:48:56] [discord] MediaWiki:Common.css [01:49:16] [discord] I already said it in a previous message, please read again [01:49:33] [discord] No I see Im just not finding [01:49:34] [discord] it [01:51:02] [discord] I don't like spoon-feeding but here it is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.css [01:51:03] [discord] Please learn the basics of MediaWiki before trying to manage your own wiki [04:22:42] [discord] thats not a fair response at all [04:23:01] [discord] not everyone who wants to manage a wiki knows technical stuf [04:23:05] [discord] *stuff [04:23:28] [discord] even if miraheze has mostly technically-focused volunteers [04:23:48] [discord] we shouldnt be acting like all users should be required to know the same things [04:24:13] [discord] fandom has had success in giving people templates and step-by-step instructions and assistance for supposedly simple things [04:30:41] [discord] It's like if you don't know programming but you are trying to make a million-dollar mobile application [04:31:00] [discord] You must go learn it yourself, if you solely rely on others you can't learn [04:31:11] [discord] so... you have to know programming to make a wiki? [04:31:22] [discord] Analogy exists [04:31:24] [discord] i sure wonder why people find miraheze more complicated and difficult to use than other wiki hosts [04:31:35] [discord] if thats your analogy then its a poor one [04:31:49] [discord] you're asking them to learn how to write css and learn how mediawiki works and refuse to even answer their question [04:32:03] [discord] how do you expect them to learn when you actively refuse to tell them what to learn and how to do it [04:32:07] [discord] I did not even tell them to write it, I said "import" [04:32:21] [discord] so you think every miraheze user needs to know how to import CSS [04:32:22] [discord] > you need to import MediaWiki:Common.css from the source wiki, the infobox style is not embedded with the template itself but in the Site CSS [04:32:31] [discord] and what if they dont know how to do that? [04:32:43] [discord] MediaWiki has sufficient manuals for importing [04:32:45] [discord] do they just go to the countless wiki hosts that agree to tell their customers how their site works [04:32:48] [discord] Google exists [04:32:53] [discord] great [04:32:56] [discord] not everyone wants to do that [04:33:03] [discord] Then it's not a me problem [04:33:18] [discord] if it's not a you problem then don't reply to discourage them from asking for help [04:33:32] [discord] if all you can provide is that they should figure it out themselves you have nothing useful to add [04:33:55] [discord] If one doesn't even learn the most basic ability - to search something up - then it screams CIR. [04:34:05] [discord] Also, the answer that isn't easily found is given [04:34:24] [discord] MediaWiki:Common.css is the answer given [04:34:51] [discord] Even if someone doesn't know how importing works, surely they know Ctrl+C/V [04:35:09] [discord] it does not scream CIR, because they arent disrupting anything by asking how to do it [04:35:45] [discord] i dont think its common sense or "competence" to know what MediaWiki:Common.css is [04:35:52] [discord] or how and where to copy the code [04:36:05] [discord] to someone that cant code it just looks like a bunch of gibberish text that you cant decipher the meaning of [04:36:19] [discord] you cant expect them to immediately realize what to do with it [04:37:06] [discord] You do know that "not bothered to" doesn't equal to "does not know" right? [04:37:20] [discord] i also know that 1 doesnt equal to 2 [04:37:23] [discord] what does it have to do with your poitn [04:37:26] [discord] *point [04:38:18] [discord] what keywords are they expected to search? "how to import in mediawiki" or "how to import the template infobox css to my wiki"? the last one will give less results, but where do you expect them to learn which is going to have more answers? [04:38:41] [discord] If one is "not bothered to Google" then that's a matter of competence [04:38:51] [discord] It's not about the competence of MediaWiki knowledge [04:38:57] [discord] It's about self-help [04:39:11] [discord] what do you expect them to google and where did they say that [04:39:29] [discord] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1075275132077096970/image.png [04:40:00] [discord] also, 10/10 customer support, "how do i do this?", "google it and figure it out yourself" [04:40:24] [discord] what do you think people are going to respond when the company they choose to do business with directs them to a support channel where people tell them that they are incompetent and to use google? [04:41:08] [discord] Go search MediaWiki:Common.css even on Google and the first thing pops up is exactly what they are looking for [04:41:21] [discord] okay, and who told them to search MediaWiki:Common.css [04:41:30] [discord] when were they told that MediaWiki:Common.css answer their question? [04:41:40] [discord] when were they told what MediaWiki:Common.css does? [04:42:26] [discord] @LaneFrost you need to import **MediaWiki:Common.css** from the source wiki, the infobox style is **not embedded with the template** itself but in the **Site CSS** [04:43:04] [discord] If one can import a template into their wiki, you tell me they don't know how to import another page? [04:43:32] [discord] because they are separate pages [04:43:34] [discord] Also: _from the source wiki_ [04:44:02] [discord] honestly, its not laziness to not read the entire documentation. there is a *lot* to read [04:44:20] [discord] That exactly means they have the ability to import a page but cannot just do the same for another [04:44:22] [discord] wikis are usually someone's hobby and they arent going to dedicate their time to reading a long document [04:44:34] [discord] right and they work differently [04:44:43] [discord] do you want them to copy the entirety of another wiki's common.css to their common.css? [04:44:50] [discord] or do you want them to copy only part of it? [04:45:02] [discord] They can of course copy the entirety [04:45:12] [discord] thats not a great idea [04:45:21] [discord] because it'll result in copying code they dont need [04:45:26] [discord] loading unneeded code slows down performance [04:45:42] [discord] No one said that isn't, a ton of things they'll likely need if they simply take from Wikipedia [04:45:52] [discord] Horizontal lists, plain lists [04:45:57] [discord] Documentation styling [04:46:19] [discord] Optimization is one thing [04:46:31] [discord] Optimizing before even getting things to work is the worst suggestion ever [04:46:56] [discord] If you can't get things working, make it work first [04:47:03] [discord] not everything is so black and white [04:47:49] [discord] Maybe time to take a pause on this line of debate. [06:27:47] [discord] 7 users have created global.js pages in the past 48 hours or so haha [06:27:58] [discord] uncommon for meta [06:28:15] [discord] i've thought about putting in a global.js page for myself but not sure what to add [06:34:17] [discord] @Stewards anyone have a second to go through the Requests for reopening wikis page? got about 5 legitimate requests there, if they can be cleared speedily would be great [06:35:57] [discord] i temporarily gave myself a global.js to censor all images until i clicked them so that i could look at the degrees of lewdity wiki [06:36:11] [discord] ...oh [06:37:34] [discord] lmao [06:40:28] [discord] This reminds me of my two favorite always-customizations whenever available: [06:40:28] [discord] [06:40:30] [discord] -always dark mode when available [06:53:42] [discord] do you use dark mode on MH? [06:56:32] [discord] That'd be one of the few exceptions [06:57:21] [discord] ah [06:57:35] [discord] any chance you have a minute to talk about something via DMs? [06:58:17] [discord] Limited time [06:59:20] [discord] gotcha, i'll be fast [07:09:58] [discord] done [07:10:26] [discord] thanks, appreciate it Reception 👍 [07:12:20] [discord] no problem [08:33:34] [discord] oh yeah [08:33:37] [discord] you could add anti-vandalism tools [11:05:26] [discord] Hey guys 🙂 Is it possible to change your database name? [11:10:01] [discord] yeah, please file a task on [[Phabricator]] [11:10:01] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Phabricator [11:10:02] [discord] [11:10:07] [discord] yeah, please file a task on [[Phabricator]] [11:10:07] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Phabricator [11:10:08] [discord] [11:10:37] [discord] Thank you! [14:18:26] [discord] [[mh:xyzw:feignm:Test]] [14:18:26] https://mh.wikipedia.org/wiki/xyzw:feignm:Test [14:18:27] [discord] [14:26:26] [discord] Goodnight! [15:24:32] [discord] For y'all knowledgeable about seo, do images get pulled in by Google in the image search the same way as a normal page? That would mean needing to add keywords to files as well right? [15:40:25] [discord] Hmm according to the CP, all explicit images do need to be collapsed by default, so if they are not doing that, you might want to tell them to do it tbh [15:48:57] [discord] which ones [16:09:42] [discord] check my global.js [16:09:50] [discord] i added some yesterday [16:10:10] [discord] sort of but not keyword stuffing [16:10:14] [discord] name images like you would pages [16:11:04] [discord] like for example if you have an image for nahida's character card in genshin impact, do `Nahida Character Card.webp` instead of `CharacterCardNahida.webp`, `jasfhjhfua.webp`, `NahidaPlayableCharacterGenshinImpactLesserLordKusanaliArchonGodCharacter.webp` [16:11:55] [discord] and resize the files to reasonable dimensions and compress them using https://tinypng.com so that people on slower connections load them faster [16:25:59] [discord] compress png does nothing on MH [16:26:22] [discord] I mean in term of actual file used by users [16:29:08] [discord] images are mostly resized on MH automatically so the only thing it can help is to reduce wasted space on MH's server [16:34:43] [discord] Hmm I mean more like adjacent keywords. In this case there are cards for a certain character, when you image search “ cards” you’ll see a whole bunch of images (for that character’s cards) from fandom without specifying the card names [16:35:14] [discord] not correct [16:35:39] [discord] though the resized files arent effected [16:35:42] [discord] the full-size images are shown [16:35:51] [discord] in some places [16:35:59] [discord] sounds good [16:36:59] [discord] Eh my question is how did fandom manage to do that without messing with the filename [16:38:41] [discord] If the image rendered size is too small to resize, I would consider that as the only case which the compressed PNGs are served [16:39:02] [discord] no [16:39:05] [discord] in mediaviewer [16:39:08] [discord] if you click an image [16:39:12] [discord] it shows you the full size image [16:39:21] [discord] oh, also that [16:39:33] [discord] + if you visit the file page itself [16:40:00] [discord] I mean how many ppl uses mediaviewer btw? [16:40:06] [discord] me [16:40:27] [discord] i do [16:41:09] [discord] you will be disappointed with the issue that MH serves much bigger files in some cases [16:41:45] [discord] whats the issue [16:41:50] [discord] ~~please tldr~~ [16:42:02] [discord] Like WebP got converted back to PNG [16:42:13] [discord] better than nothing [16:42:17] [discord] yes i know [16:44:52] [discord] I guess the only proper way to "improve" user experiences is to reduce server taxes [16:49:48] [discord] I think SRE should look for a way to enable this extension [16:49:48] [discord] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WebP [17:12:02] [discord] Doesn’t that just create a webp for every png so increasing storage used? [17:16:22] [discord] Yeah, it'll save on performance for retrieve/display of images, but won't improve the storage situation if I'm reading it correctly [17:18:44] [discord] pngs already created smaller pngs except the above cases [17:19:31] [discord] replacing the smaller pngs with webp would be a huge performance improvement [17:20:28] [discord] isn't your extension also convert png to webp with new uploaded images? [17:23:33] [discord] It seems like the conversion only creates a separate copy, the original is retained, based on how I'm reading it. But that's what we have extension review by the SRE team for. 🙂 [17:24:12] [discord] oh well... [17:24:13] [discord] And the extension should treat PNGs with special care [17:24:43] [discord] The extension doesn't losslessly convert PNGs, isn't it? [17:25:15] [discord] I'm looking at you right now 🙂 [17:26:28] [discord] Also if this is the case then I would only enable webp thumbnail generator [17:41:00] [discord] 502 Bad Gateway [17:41:11] [discord] in polcompball.miraheze.org [17:41:14] [discord] miraheze down? [17:41:19] [discord] i'm getting a 502 too [17:41:37] [discord] It appears so. Looking [17:42:32] [discord] Yes, it seems everything is down. [17:42:49] [discord] @Site Reliability Engineering anyone have any ideas? [17:44:32] [discord] I'm getting 503s instead [17:44:44] [discord] I like to compress my images too. I use another but very similar image compressor [17:45:13] Trying to find out why we are down. Hold on. [17:45:22] [discord] Nevermind, it's back up [17:45:43] [discord] Not completely. I rebooted some things. [17:46:16] [discord] Should be fully up soon now though. [17:47:18] [discord] Ok, we are coming back. [17:47:46] [discord] Thanks [17:47:52] [discord] it was an easy fix [17:51:35] [discord] 503 came back [17:54:50] [discord] I show nothing wrong now, no monitoring picks up any 503s or outages right now. [17:56:29] [discord] i had 503 came back [17:57:20] [discord] but now's ok [21:32:53] [discord] @Colleiflower thank you for standing up for me you are an amazing person. I did feel like I was a bit mistreated and I like to ask actual humans because Google has not worked for what I was looking for in the past [21:35:51]