[00:00:01] i found a VSCode extension that Clearly Does Not Give a Shit about user security [00:00:10] (dumps access token into notification tray) [00:20:05] upd found markitup but it doesn't work if you don't kill off strict origin policy in browser [00:20:46] setting is global and i cannot containerize it [00:20:57] pain [00:23:44] Thanks for keeping us updated on what you've found, unfortunately this is one that's outside my personal expertise so I'm learning right alongside you. 🙂 [00:26:17] this will work reasonably well for basic formatting [00:27:00] Not too shabby, I've definitely seen worse. [00:27:21] BTW, you'll need to use the `/auth` command to verify your wiki user w/ the bot before sharing links. [00:29:41] [1/2] this looks DEAD [00:29:42] [2/2] https://solowiki.sourceforge.net/ [00:32:13] Hi, Is it possible to deliver recent updates to my Discord server? [00:33:34] That looks like it was originally made for a feature that got removed in 2013 (). Doesn't really look like there is anything really supported by core MW at the moment. [00:34:09] even better [00:34:46] Special:ManageWiki/settings under Notifications, find the setting for "Discord Additional Incoming Webhook URLs" and add a webhook URL to the box. [00:35:22] [1/2] 2 stars [00:35:23] [2/2] deprecated? [00:35:34] I don't know how to add webhooks. [00:35:59] [1/2] Some documentation for discord's side: [00:36:00] [2/2] https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/228383668-Intro-to-Webhooks [00:36:11] i am genuinely surprised things are this bad [00:36:40] Thanks [00:42:14] markitup is the only option that looks halfway decent so far [00:42:42] https://markitup.jaysalvat.com/home/ [01:15:40] ...their examples page is fucking incomprehensible for someone who does not have javascript brain rot [01:19:58] there are zero decent offline editors [01:20:35] my question is why [01:21:10] Niche need and advanced JS brain rot? (jokes) [01:21:43] there are so many people using mediawiki, there's no way none of them are fed up having to have edit in browser [01:23:22] in non-joke terms, it's a perennial problem -- unless you're working for wikimedia or an offshoot, most devwork is unpaid. While there are several needs, unless the work meaningfully contributes to an impactful outcome or you stumble across the occasional rogue developer with both skills and public interest, lower priority stuff doesn't get made. [01:24:35] Local apps are an interesting confluence of two skillsets as well, most mediawiki extensions are more focused on server environments. While there's crossover in those skillsets, most don't attempt it esp. since each possible wikifarm/host could use a myriad of authentication solutions. [01:25:17] This is talking to the edge of my skill-set though, so I'll stop here before I make a great fool of myself. [01:26:32] (pasting everything from their template page gives me this. honestly quite incredible) [01:26:58] I feel like there are a few improvements that exist that can be used for the existing wikitext editor that are actually quite nice. [01:27:34] RE: Local apps, there's also Auto Wiki Browser, but that's more for bulk actions to my understanding that pushing local copy to cloud. [01:29:23] i think i'm giving up and using that first token dumping vscode extension, just without login [01:29:27] fuck javascript [01:29:47] i am not learning javascript [01:30:24] Sounds like I need to re-rot my brain at some point and start writing local apps again, because I do see the use in this. [01:31:31] just locally host a MediaWiki instance lol [01:31:43] hmm but yeah, it seems no proper local editor exists for MediaWiki [01:32:07] Boromir gif about 'one does not simply' intensifies [01:32:31] Yeah, honestly had the idea of setting up a local wiki editor of some sort some time ago. Not really sure if I'd want to do it with rendering using the remote API or something interesting with a local mediawiki in a container. Could be fun. [01:35:05] [1/2] it seems like big numbers game to me. There are like, tens of thousands of people wasting their lives away editing mediawiki sites (FANDOM/Gamepedia userbase, wikipedia). It is quite improbable that there are none among them who do NOT have the required skills and free time. The only reasonable explanation i have is that mediawiki somehow magically w [01:35:05] [2/2] ards off talent [01:36:09] which, considering my experience with russian FANDOM users, might not be too far from the truth [01:36:59] Also a matter of these code unicorns hitting the same problem and saying, "Goddamn it, I'll solve it then", if you're adding multipliers to that equation [01:38:01] (Unofficial Drake equation of MW extension/app development, go!) [01:44:16] thinking about it i can probably be considered masochistic to some degree [01:46:54] The amount of users who can actually code in many communities is quite small [01:49:05] i can code but i hate UI [01:52:28] And not just "can actually code", but either knows relevant protocols/API/syntax for the particular language(s) required or has the free time to learn. [01:52:54] The number of folks like myself who know some code and maybe wrote a mod once are [01:55:46] Even minor expertise and contributions are helpful, though. Our users that fall into the 'some code' group creating one-off JS tweaks have helped solve some pretty interesting gaps in MediaWiki. [02:40:08] [1/3] today on our todos: [02:40:08] [2/3] death approaches [02:40:08] [3/3] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1088556360100220938/1092632211255210004/image.png [03:08:03] you are second person, probably in a week, asking for such things [03:11:39] neither of you explained what's the problem w/ MWs editor UI - if we talk about source editor, visual editor is universally hated by any advanced wiki editor who can code a decent template [03:23:11] [1/2] - no syntax highlighting [03:23:11] [2/2] - no real kb shortcuts i'm used to [03:28:26] syntax highlight is here lol [03:28:33] only Wikipedia lacks it [03:28:54] Syntax highlighting can be made available from the CodeMirror extension (which we should have available), or from Dot's syntax highlighter (a gadget from en wikipedia), or from another set of WP gadgets I'm forgetting the name of. [03:29:26] [1/2] on FANDOM it's just personal settings, I think [03:29:27] [2/2] on Miraheze is at least CodeMirror extension [03:29:41] ofc w/o highlight it would be horrible experience [03:30:12] I started w/ FANDOM and when I got to Wikipedia and one Gamepedia (before merging) wiki - yes, I was baffled [03:30:57] i'll pester our maintainer to add codemirror ig [03:35:08] [1/2] as for 503s, can be annoying, agree, but I got a habit of copying the entire thing before hitting save button as far back as in 2016 FANDOM [03:35:09] [2/2] I'd be glad if decent text editors had wiki markup (alongside HTML/CSS) code recognition tho [03:35:38] also if i do something for prolonged periods of time i prefer having a dedicated app for it if possible. i always have a million browser tabs open [03:36:45] + i would not want to want victim to bad wifi as i'm finishing a 3 screen megaedit at 4am [03:37:14] these things strike when you least expect it [03:37:44] just keep the tab open and refresh when the internet is better [03:38:07] If an edit fails because of a 5XX or internet thing, you can refresh the tab and it'll save the edit [03:38:11] I use separate browser just for wiki works [03:38:20] It'll complain about cache but just press continue and it'll save your work [03:38:38] what does mw use for diff tracking internally? i assume it's not git [03:39:33] If you're interested in gadgets/user scripts for syntax highlighting, the two that I'm aware of are and [04:42:21] damn, I think I'm having an edit conflict w/ someone on Meta [10:37:08] thalber: Kinda late answer, but MW keeps a copy of all the revisions on the db, the actual diffs are generated using GNU Diff (https://www.gnu.org/software/diffutils/, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgDiff) [10:38:06] diffs are generated on the fly [10:38:19] so no git [10:48:33] Looking at #miraheze-feed, I never realized we had such a big Japanese audience. [10:49:05] for example, there's one wiki, chakuwikiwiki, which has over 1.5 million revisions and 69 active editors: https://chakuwiki.miraheze.org/wiki/%E7%89%B9%E5%88%A5:%E7%B5%B1%E8%A8%88?uselang=en [10:49:10] too bad I can't read it [10:53:45] It's a dimension in cvt as well, always more tricky to contend with when it flares up [12:24:55] [1/2] thalber: as far as MediaWiki editing goes, editing in a code editor is not that important to most people. [12:24:55] [2/2] Still, https://github.com/tosher/Mediawiker exists. [12:26:53] Not true, it is available on Wikipedia. [12:27:21] yeah I saw Void's comment bellow [12:28:03] Well, the same CodeMirror extension is there by default, and they're talking about a different thing. [12:33:02] last time I tried to edit on WP was in early 2020, probably, so idk [12:55:21] ok we got codemirror now i'll see if it makes things less painful [12:55:32] if not i'll just use vscode extension [14:50:28] Goodnight! [14:50:48] I miss blue Miraheze. [14:53:25] Maybe we can turn it blue on the last or first day of every month, just for fun. [15:06:27] Conga rats to the new person [15:18:21] Is there any reason why an administrator might not be able to do cascading protection? [15:34:31] [1/2] anyone w/ Cosmos skin and Visual Editor - when you click on simple "Edit" button does VE open for you? [15:34:31] [2/2] my other wiki on Timeless has no problem [15:35:26] nvm probably cache issue ... [15:39:02] Cosmos and VE are kinda-cranky partners, I've had similar issues [15:39:19] (that's true of VE and several skins, though) [15:46:55] VE is quite finicky at times [16:19:30] yeah but sadly it has to be enabled/look after w/ non niche wikis [16:19:55] also figured how to TemplateData [16:29:14] Crucial extension if you really want templates to be visual editor compatible [16:29:24] I really do need to go back and add template data for most of my info boxes [18:14:58] Im done fixing errors on my own site. Are there any other miraheze sites I can join and help fix errors and edit? [18:50:50] <_AR1A#9993> Is there a place where I can learn wiki coding? [18:56:31] [1/2] Help pages at mediawiki.org [18:56:31] [2/2] but by own experience - look at the code on different established wikis, see how things work, learn HTML and CSS too [18:59:39] <_AR1A#9993> What’s code highlight? [19:01:03] in source code editor different code pieces will have different colors [19:01:29] can be done w/ CodeMirror extension, just discussed here today [19:18:33] The page at is generally the best place to start for learning how to use MediaWiki [19:20:59] <_AR1A#9993> Oh thanks [19:21:14] @Orduin Dm? [19:23:28] sure [19:26:22] Sent [19:48:28] cargo just stopped working [19:48:44] known and intended [19:49:01] why? update? [19:50:05] security [19:50:37] [1/2] ah [19:50:38] [2/2] did something happen? [19:50:52] (and will it return? 5000 broken pages is not fun) [19:51:32] @Disgustedorite☀ information will be released in due course [20:00:08] how recently did it get disabled [20:00:37] it was working earlier today and like a couple minutes before I asked about it multiple membrs of out wiki were like hey, what's going on, why are these pages broken [20:02:06] Disabled about 20 minutes ago [20:05:39] Between 20:40:18 and 20:40:24 UK time [20:07:29] I will say I think we could adapt to do without cargo if there was another easy way to grab data from an infobox [20:08:21] Hopefully it'll be resolved soon [20:08:32] It probably will as the maintainer is active in the development scene [20:08:39] but it is a rather serious thing [20:08:48] There is SMW except it aint easy [20:10:12] [1/2] "aint" [20:10:12] [2/2] >compared to cargo [20:10:51] either it's way simpler to just Use Wherever, or I was using it wrong [20:13:32] I had to make templates to use cargo like smw without drowning in syntax [20:16:07] Cargo is sql-like which makes it easy (until it decides to not work but that’s a different story) [20:16:30] if I knew how I would make an extension similar to Cargo but using something like SQLite instead of placing everything into the same db [20:20:26] if that extension is possible that would be super convenient [20:22:40] for someone unfamiliar with sql, smw is more intuitive than cargo [20:23:48] semantic mediawiki is. mediawiki. you store data like you're putting a page in a category [20:24:52] more intuitive for someone who's just a wiki guy [20:27:38] storing doesn't seem all to bad, just querying seems like a pain [20:34:07] [1/2] I hate that querying data from one specific page in cargo is as complicated as it is and that it doesn't have something as simple as smw's "show" (which I made a template for bc I was tired of its nonexistence) [20:34:07] [2/2] honestly if smw had been an option at the time I would have put it on the Sagan 4 wiki and had it completely replace dpl as well because it can do what dpl does and what cargo does at the same time, in the same query [20:34:32] which is so useful you have no idea [20:35:33] there is 2-3 alternative ways to store and query data inside MW, but they work in the reverse way SMW/Cargo does [20:37:10] I was thinking about using some of those things, looking at another music themed wiki - which heavily depends on cargo, but I felt like a) it's complicated b) data on my wiki is much harder to organise and it seem like infoboxes gonna have invisible? data just for the rest things? if that's normal, idk c) cases like this, extension suddenly dead etc [20:43:01] [1/2] maybe it's just me knowing sql beforehand that makes cargo super easy to use and smw very ??? (briefly looking at sparql, even that makes more sense despite it looking needlessly complicated) [20:43:01] [2/2] i suppose i never tried querying for data on a specific page, only on tables i created so maybe that's why i never had any trouble [20:45:26] on Sagan 4, for stuff relevant to users browsing the project, we use cargo to display information on small selections of random species in specific categories pulled up using dynamic page lists [20:49:07] because sagan 4 is a collaborative project and we want people to have choices shown to them so they can get an idea of where to start [20:49:33] here's a screenshot of it in action with the three images on the right [20:49:58] (not much info is shown but it's a new feature) [20:50:35] [1/2] ah i see, the way i'd do that in cargo is store the categories as a cargo field in a table and just filter that [20:50:35] [2/2] bypassing the need to use dpl or finding the page itself [20:52:05] that gets excessive fast because there's so many categories a species could be in [20:53:42] we use this for the taxonomy system, and a species may be in up to 17 different taxa [20:55:30] we also frequently make use of dpl's linksfrom and linksto in narrowing down species particularly for another thing we do, which is using it to find and correct errors in old species [20:56:24] i can't say i'm too familiar with species information but it could maybe be a flat list under a singular field? I think cargo also allows hierarchical lists [20:56:50] But based on the way you're describing it, the way yall wanna use data is far more suited smw-style [20:57:18] Oh dorite was here [20:57:37] I tried so hard to recreate the spore wiki's smw-based automatic taxonomy in cargo [20:57:42] I joined this server since I started my own wiki [20:57:51] And I mgith need to refer to here for emergency [21:07:34] How do I make a cargo? [21:13:00] Cargo has been disabled for security reason per the latest post in [21:13:53] (By which they mean #announcements ) [21:14:06] I'm really new to miraheze [21:14:11] As you can tell [21:14:40] the latest post in...browse channels? [21:14:51] Our SRE team are working to update the extension, so unless you have a really specific use case for cargo it's better to focus on working on getting content built on your new wiki for now. [21:14:55] WTF... yeah that the channel I meant, why does broswer channel show up first when putting in #ann ... [21:15:22] Understood👍 [21:15:28] Oh Christ. Faa is in the server. [21:15:51] this is the last server I ever expected to see someone say that [21:15:55] Was considering to make it easier, just making the descriptions into the nornal text [21:16:11] He's been stalking me since February, I moved the Spec Evo wiki here recently. [21:16:22] You can call me... Lesovikk. [21:16:24] Who is faa [21:16:29] The fucking antichrist [21:16:45] Uh okkkk [21:16:57] I have informed mods of his presence. [21:17:13] So he can't defecate all over the place [21:18:55] He probably followed me [21:19:33] he's been here longer actually [21:19:35] I checked [21:19:53] if he were to defecate in the public channels, we'd pull out a mop and also deal with him accordingly [21:19:54] in any case this is probably not something to take publicly [21:20:01] +1 on that [22:10:39] How do I get myself verified wiki user role [22:11:07] use the `/auth` command and follow the bot instructions to verify your wiki user [22:48:55] I use Cargo heavily on my wiki and am trying to figure out what to do now. Is SMW ready to use as a permanent replacement for Cargo yet? I see that it still says "Permanently "experimental" and may be removed with little to no prior notice" in ManageWiki/extensions [23:03:52]