[00:11:17] hang on for a second I'm confused [00:11:29] what is Nale requesting that raidarr be revoked from on SN [00:11:43] because as far as I know, he holds no rights other than autopatrolled on the wiki [00:23:24] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> Hiii [00:23:45] hello [00:24:09] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> I put in that request for permissions thing earlier [00:24:36] GSysOp, but that's a global perm [00:24:55] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> And also found a little worm sockpuppeter who is prob trying to sneak onto the real AVID, so I gotta stop him! [00:24:57] Can't be revoked by Stewards though except in emergencies... [00:25:14] unless Nale wants his autopatrolled right gone? [00:26:43] It just makes no sense [00:37:07] they do have global sysop [00:37:45] so that could be it, but yeah autopatrolled is up to meta admins and not stewards [00:37:46] im gonna be the first one to say it [00:37:51] but i actually like nale :p [00:38:09] <:ThinkerMH:912930078646730792> [00:38:24] that's a.....view [00:39:32] the most view of all time [00:39:45] who on earth even knows tbh [00:39:58] it's a petty reaction to being called out and he doesn't even remotely try to do it right [00:40:18] I am confusion, America explain [00:40:18] @Orduin any chance it can just be closed because it's not physically possible [00:40:26] like there's nothing to remove.... [00:40:34] oh no me autopatrol [00:40:38] ¯\(ツ)/¯ [00:40:59] holdup I gotta laugh for a minute [00:41:16] kind working on something else at the moment, but yea, will comment in a bit [00:41:43] it's really not priority especially with actual tech things that are an issue [00:41:47] that is true [00:41:58] no rush, none of us are going anywhere lol [00:42:42] just for saying that im probably on some miraheze watchlist [00:42:55] 📸 [00:43:34] you're already on the cabal's secret bluelist, you've only purchased seats to the ultra secret 'lock when nobody looking' blacklist megathread of Enemies against teh State™ [00:44:46] I know there's a certain number of people who do stand or like nale, though after recent events I think that number has diminished somewhat [00:45:12] debating with him right now on SN [00:45:18] I don't hate him, I really don't [00:45:22] but I hate what he's done to MH [00:45:27] you pretty much concluded the thread and there is little to continue [00:45:38] 'what rights' and when he had the opportunity to reply he completely avoided it [00:45:43] [1/3] ```sql [00:45:43] [2/3] DROP TABLE WHERE user_name = 'Bukkit' [00:45:44] [3/3] ``` [00:45:46] so that's just an admission of no case [00:45:47] or smth idk sql tbh [00:45:52] oh mb RfS [00:45:54] oops we lost the user table [00:45:54] not SN [00:46:03] seeya [00:46:08] Bukkit goes poof [00:46:22] Bukkit died, Brandon lied 😔 [00:46:35] hehehe [00:46:35] the old boy's club sends its regards [00:46:46] and the one female who slipped in* [00:46:52] huh [00:47:25] I do appreciate how Nale has escalated from PITA to actively disruptive behaviour <:pupCoffeeMH:766487840694599711> [00:47:33] ¯\(ツ)/¯ [00:47:49] (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ [00:47:53] ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ) [00:48:03] I believe in every user's liberty to make themselves a rope [00:48:43] watch that message be added to another reason on your SN thread [00:48:47] Hole-digging will continue until morale improves [00:49:06] he's currently banned [00:49:09] till April 16 [00:49:18] archive logs exist [00:49:42] anything said here can be published wherever [00:49:43] true but he probably won't check [00:49:48] he will eventually check [00:49:49] and if he does it doesn't matter [00:49:52] mfw naleksuh gets banned in https://wm-bot.wmcloud.org/logs/%23miraheze/20230405.txt [00:49:57] as there's nothing to revoke 🙂 [00:50:15] we probably shouldn't carry on with the subject though, bit crude to be going on and on [00:50:24] true [00:50:34] it's done, there it is, opine on the SN if you haven't and move to more productive things [01:19:08] well [01:34:54] The reason why Cargo-reliant pages still look fine is because they're cached, correct? If so, when do these versions of pages expire? [02:23:22] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> Something just happened. I just got logged off of every Miraheze wiki I have been too (only 3 wikis) [02:24:23] Yes that was done as a precaution due to a security vulnerability with the Cargo extension [02:24:28] there is a site notice [02:24:58] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> Oh ok [02:31:47] just fyi it’s “precaution” [02:33:57] We've got a fix in the works for typos already, thanks for the heads up. 🙂 [02:42:59] I keep getting logged out. I logged back in and 30 seconds later got logged out again, this has happened about 15 times that I keep trying, can't even make one action. [02:43:44] the script is still running [02:44:34] What script??? Can't you just change the config. [02:44:48] resetGlobalUserTokens [02:45:02] Why can't you just change the config version that invalidates them? [02:45:04] yeah resetGlobalUserTokens.php [02:49:56] we did change it - apparently last time we had to do this both were done [02:50:21] I did it last time, and I did not do both. [03:03:59] can I get a quick refresher on why semantic mediawiki is bad, its potential addition to our wiki was denied in the past [03:04:15] How big is your wiki? [03:04:33] Might be good to note in the banner that user sessions may be repeatedly invalidated. [03:04:40] the sagan 4 beta wiki was less than 100 pages at the time, right now it's somewhere less than 2000 [03:05:43] sagan 4 alpha wiki has somewhere nearing 6000 pages that would likely be storing data, fewer that would be querying it [03:08:11] a lot less than the spore wiki which seems to do fine with using smw everywhere [03:11:25] both sagan 4 projects are expected to continue to grow...not sure what we'll do when they grow too big for cargo if we stick with it [03:11:56] you should be fine then [03:11:59] storing and querying data was The big solution to make growth more feasible in the first place as it allows custom navigation stuff [03:12:33] what would the limit be before saying no [03:14:01] I know there's a note on Cargo about 50,000 pages [03:21:26] script is now finished [03:22:58] Cool, my current re-updated session survived! [03:35:56] okay, so how do I go about swapping cargo for semantic mediawiki? I've been given the okay to test it on the third and smallest Sagan 4 project, Mason, which is on hiatus and therefore won't be disrupted by the change [03:41:51] you should request SMW be enabled on your wiki on the SN's restricted settings change section [03:42:36] What is a better alternative to use besides cargo for now? [03:43:58] no idea how Wikibase compares to it [03:44:22] a WMF maintained solution would be best as they tend to be the sturdiest [03:51:11] [1/2] just looking at this article, https://professional.wiki/en/articles/managing-data-in-mediawiki# [03:51:11] [2/2] it seems wikibase will definitely not support our needs [03:52:29] inline queries are vital [03:54:23] SMW might. But it can have some issues on Miraheze as well. [03:55:25] I'm switching to semantic mediawiki specifically because I know it will suit Sagan 4's needs and be better suited to fulfilling them overall than cargo [03:55:59] SMW is better than Cargo if you know how to use it, but it can also get more complex. [03:56:05] and it's more intuitive for people who don't know sql but do know their way around wikis, which we're more likely to have in 2033's team [03:56:40] I'm hoping we'll be able to get Cargo up and running again tomorrow. Will need to do some wizardry to do what needs doing though. [03:57:01] the data storage is like categories and let's just say I had to make custom templates to make querying cargo work like smw and be less of a pain [03:58:21] and using smw may also allow us to ditch dynamicpagelists instead of juggling it and cargo together to get smw-like results [03:58:43] Yeah SMW is useful. [03:59:59] But not to easy to switch and has more risk of intermediate downtime if cache or server deploys gets mixed up on Miraheze. It is the disadvantage of a multi-server cluster like Miraheze, that SMW wasn't 100% designed for. [04:03:11] Wonder if that's something we could improve at all [04:04:18] Probably can someway. [04:29:22] how often is intermediate? what does it look like on other wikis on miraheze that use smw? [04:30:24] Every once in a while all SMW wikis go down and when it does a script has to be ran to fix it. Hasn't happened in a while afaik, but more downtime during MediaWiki upgrades, etc... [04:31:09] I think we can survive that with just a heads up to users [04:34:13] is the script run automatically? [04:34:55] (just curious at this point) [04:41:23] I am preparing to mark all the pages that need to be marked for translation. So if you need, please let me know. Just ping me. [04:56:24] Manually [04:59:03] Wonder if that is something we could automate? Like, check for missing or failed setup somewhere and run script depending on output. [04:59:07] If it is run without needing to be ran it breaks things also. It is very fragile. [04:59:47] So that has the potential of causing other issues as well. [05:00:27] We might be able to change things, using ObjectCache, similar to how ManageWiki cache is done. [05:01:00] it is a .smw.json file stored in the /srv/mediawiki/w/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki directory. [05:02:10] But it is only updated on a random server that the job runs scripts on, which is why it has an issue sometimes. [05:03:07] What about an automatic ping to people who can run the script if it thinks it needs to be run [05:05:51] I'll have to take a closer look at how it works later. Really feel like that's something that could be improved. Best option honestly might just be do something like making the directory the file goes in a mounted network directory so all servers are working on the same copy. [05:05:58] Anyway, it's late and I need to sleep [05:06:05] Translation of Cargo to smw? [05:07:06] (I'm tired and need sleep) [05:13:24] Is that worth it for an extension used on less than 10 wikis? It is only enabled on 8 wikis right now. [05:13:34] (re mount) [05:14:12] That seens like it would complicate things. [05:21:07] convinced a creator of a upcoming roblox game to use miraheze instead of fandom, its been working nicely [09:11:13] Does anyone have a link to the cargo bug report? Trying to find it on phabricator to follow when it might be fixed [09:15:27] [1/2] Error 503 Backend fetch failed, forwarded for 2402:800:6312:2262:e921:9b79:b7b0:5086, 127.0.0.1 [09:15:28] [2/2] (Varnish XID 247752628) via cp23 at Wed, 05 Apr 2023 09:14:59 GMT. [09:23:18] hmm, is it possible to delete IRC log? [11:06:51] [1/2] Not sure what is your use case, but I have been using JSON in my own Wiki, implementing the necessary queries in Lua modules. [11:06:51] [2/2] I've never even heard of Cargo, MediaWiki, Wikbase, WikiDB, etc. until now. [11:11:31] Lua is an actual programming language so it's much harder to learn than Cargo or stuffs like that [11:12:26] Yeah, but a lot of people who own a Wiki will probably write their own modules for Scribunto anyway. [11:14:00] [1/2] yep [11:14:00] [2/2] If people knows how to use Lua then Lua perform way faster than Cargo + don't have such thing as query restriction [11:14:32] I wish I know how to learn Lua the easiest way [11:14:41] 😭 [12:27:45] Miraheze should work on smaller banners 😄 [12:34:35] hm? [12:35:07] the banners can definitely be optimized [12:35:40] but realistically someone is going to need to make that their priority, otherwise they tend to be a one-and-done thing with little innovation except correcting errors or adjusting text [12:35:45] you meant language translation, I guess, but you said that in the middle of database extensions talk [12:38:02] Yes [12:38:45] I can help mark pages for translation [12:46:21] tbf, it is kinda rare for there to be 2 global banners/notices at once, and they are meant to be noticed afterall. And with a single banner it is really not that bad [12:56:20] I think it is still bad with a single banner. They are bigger than article text in the default skin, but usually are not that important. [12:56:42] Wikimedia projects also have banners, but they are not as big as ours. [12:57:54] I mean most of them are dismissable as well, so once you see them, you can't just dismiss them and the same one shouldn't show up again [12:59:10] I do think the way the banner works can sometimes be a problem [12:59:16] for example it looks horrific on citizen dark theme [12:59:20] That requires user to take an action, which many won't. And a random viewer is still going to see a banner with 16px text. [12:59:48] there's room to improve but it's all volunteer driven and someone needs to make it their thing [12:59:55] There's no reason why at least font size couldn't be closer to article text font size. [13:00:26] cc @Agent maybe we can consider font size tweaks and try it out on different skins? [13:00:57] wouldn't be top thing to do obviously but it wouldn't hurt to give it a look [13:01:58] I can suggest improvements if needed. [13:03:03] feel free to compile a list, and it can be a solid thing we note/take on at a given time [13:03:55] Well, I don't know where those banners come from, since [[Special:CentralNotice]] does not feature this one, but I can say what will be a bit better here. [13:03:55] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:CentralNotice [13:03:55]

[13:06:35] [1/5] Something like this, for example. [13:06:35] [2/5] * `font-size: 120%` to `font-size: 1.1em` [13:06:36] [3/5] * `padding: 10px 15px;` to `padding: 1em` [13:06:36] [4/5] * `padding-top:0.3em; padding-bottom:0.1em;` deleted [13:06:37] [5/5] * `padding-bottom: 15px; font-size: 13pt;` to `padding-bottom: 0.5em;` (delete the font size) [13:10:36] Would be also good to have dismissable button inside the banner. [13:16:29] Hello, sorry for the big images [13:17:43] Anyone knows why this doesn't code (fig. 2) does not display (fig. 1) as my expectation of a template navbox (ie. )? [13:18:06] Looks like you don't have Template:Navbox at your wiki. [13:18:23] That's on the same page [13:18:33] OH ok [13:18:37] I'm ultra dumb [13:23:16] I got template loops : [13:26:04] real would be a basis, like infobox template from Wikipedia [13:26:13] [1/2] I made a page called Template:F [13:26:13] [2/2] I made a page called anything [13:26:34] in the end of "anything" source code what should I put to "call" the Template:F [13:26:44] like just {{F}} ? [13:26:44] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:F [13:26:45]

[13:26:49] this is not real template code, you are calling a base template to create another template [13:27:17] you looking at Wikipedia navboxes? [13:27:31] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Gaichi)? [13:28:06] So I would have to create a page called Template:Gaichi [13:28:27] [1/9] with like [13:28:27] [2/9] ```` [13:28:27] [3/9] {{Navbox [13:28:28] [4/9] | name = Gaichi [13:28:28] [5/9] | state = {{{state|{{{1|autocollapse}}}}}} [13:28:28]