[00:00:52] is it possible to relicense DPL3 to a non-commercial license so that fandom cant use it anymore [00:00:56] just saying [00:01:03] it doesnt sound like a bad idea [00:08:36] jeez, hate fandom much? [00:08:57] yes, i hate fandom [00:09:19] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Comparing_Miraheze_to_Fandom - i spent a lot of time on this essay [00:10:24] Wouldn’t you have to revoke their current license for it to work [00:10:32] fandom as a company follows poor business practices, punishing wiki administrators that object to forced changes, implementing privacy-invasive and laggy advertisements that pop up whenever you try to do anything on the site, mistreating and underpaying hard-working employees, acquiring companies and then laying off the entire team, etc. [00:10:41] @ChaoticShadow#2188 DPL3 is open-source software developed by miraheze [00:10:45] its licensed to anyone not just fandom [00:10:51] but im pretty sure that its possible to relicense it right now [00:11:00] dont quote me on that [00:14:28] [1/2] To the best of my understanding: [00:14:28] [2/2] Retroactively changing an existing open-source license to a more restrictive one is a cardinal 'No' in development circles. What would be acceptable is changing licensing terms on future releases. That's at developer discretion, though. [00:15:14] i know its frowned upon but i think its possible under copyright law [00:15:55] although i doubt miraheze would do it [00:16:02] as its rather immoral i suppose [00:16:20] (I believe a retroactive restrictive change also violates the terms of the original license, but I haven't read any GNU licenses in full in quite some time.) [00:16:36] oh i see [00:16:40] i wasnt aware of that [00:16:48] Meaning that even if you attempt a retroactive change they'd be free and clear to continue use under the original license agreement [00:17:34] Boilerplate "I am not a lawyer" disclaimer on all of the above. [00:17:47] but yeah, what if the current DPL3 that miraheze makes is deprecated, it receives no updates (including compatibility with new versions, security updates, etc.), then a DPL4 is created that is updated and is under a non-commercial license. [00:18:53] That's speculative and at CosmicAlpha's persional discretion, but my understanding is that'd be permissible. [00:19:47] yea [00:19:53] i mean cosmicalpha might be too nice to do that [00:20:16] but fandom deserves it [00:21:41] Changing the previous release while perhaps legally possible is definitely a “no” from norms. Changing a future release is possible but I’m unsure “to stop fandom” is a good reason to actually make the change. [00:21:42] If you really wanted to screw wikia over you can always try to convince wmf to release mw 1.40+ under a different license :p [00:22:25] [1/2] Meh, I'm not a fan of Fandom's particular business practices, but 'deserves it' is a bit extreme. [00:22:25] [2/2] The internet runs on common infrastructure that people are nice enough to mutually develop, and changing licenses can have unintended other consequences with intercompatibility and willingness of folks to work WITH you on future projects. [00:22:57] Heh, I mean sure, let's burn down archive.org while we're at it. Oh wait... [00:23:18] Sorry, now this is definitely verging into offtopic [00:26:15] [1/2] To bring this back to a more relevant discussion, it's actually helpful that commercial projects use extensions developed by Miraheze or other non-commercial developers. Things like this make it easier for projects to migrate between services and have a common 'language' to start from vs having to relearn everything. [00:26:16] [2/2] Moving from Fandom to MH is a cakewalk compared to that odd homebrew that Fextralife runs. [00:26:34] hmm [00:26:36] that's a good point [00:26:52] I was unaware fextra even runs mw [00:27:03] It looks and feels nothing like it [00:27:16] wikihow also runs mediawiki [00:27:41] I honestly don't even know what Fextralife is running internally. Some of it apes MediaWiki's design language, but a lot of it is utterly alien and designed for smooth integration with their non-wiki products [00:27:52] a lot of things that dont seem like mediawiki are mediawiki [00:28:24] Didn’t know that either [00:28:41] Doesn't tvtropes also do so, albeit a heavily-hacked version? [00:28:59] No, it runs PmWiki I think [00:29:22] Yep, you're right. [00:29:25] I was thinking of allthetropes [00:34:02] I suppose you could just slap your own frontend on top of mw and it wouldn’t feel like mw anymore [00:34:50] what the [00:35:02] why is collei already in use [00:35:03] bad [00:35:07] oh [00:35:11] my other account is still in the irc list [00:35:12] ughh [00:35:13] hold on [00:35:57] well thats it, irc is stupid [00:36:23] ill wait for it to decide that Collei has left because i closed the tab due to troubleshooting problem [00:36:33] i forgot that irc is still in the 90s [00:38:25] You make it sound like the 90s was a bad time [00:38:32] (I wasn’t alive in the 90s) [00:39:16] the 90s was fine but tech developed a lot since then [00:39:43] in 2023 you can close a tab without your chat application giving you two accounts [00:40:03] I for one liked jogging with a portable CD player that would skip every other stride [00:40:32] (jokes) [00:41:13] how does one go about requesting a commons wiki? [00:41:13] You’re correct, but then I’d look at the fact that Fandom went from open sourcing their platform code to close sourcing it with UCP. Which also included closed sourcing Gamepedias code aswell. [00:41:32] Which they are rightfully derided for. 😄 [00:41:47] ^The perils of restricting your licenses, folks. [00:42:39] @Buni_Egoist#6282 i dont know what you mean by requesting a commons wiki [00:43:02] [1/2] This already exists, though it is default-accessible to all wikis: [00:43:02] [2/2] https://commons.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page [00:43:24] @Original Authority#5802 fandom hates open source code ngl [00:43:39] they dont want their "competitors" making a similar feature [00:43:44] @Collei, commons-wikis are generally used to act as central hosts to files or articles that are intended for use across several wikis. [00:44:19] when their staff suck they keep everyone stuck with features that while only existing there are not some kind of unique idea and are unnecessarily locked down [00:44:28] no I mean something along the lines of having a commons for a group of wikis on miraheze (I am a part of a somewhat large community and we have like 4 other wikis which aren't english) [00:44:29] if someone else had the same source code they would make a better version of fandom [00:44:38] Also I don’t think Fextralife is MediaWiki? [00:45:24] That one's been a tough nut to crack and inquiries haven't gone much of anywhere, at this point I'm fairly convinced it could well be homebrew all the way down. [00:46:02] Well there’s no special pages that I can see. And they don’t have a MediaWiki generator in their headers so best bet it isn’t MediaWiki tbf. [00:46:55] It’s Java. [00:47:22] And Java Servlet. [00:48:04] It’s a mess is what it is. [00:48:09] Interesting, that might be the only farm I know of that's Java-based. [00:48:29] Yeah because who is using Java in 2023? 😂 [00:49:09] Is WikiDot Java or it's own brand of fun? [00:49:11] MinMax uses Next.js which is cool but also limited. [00:49:47] php [00:50:27] Gotcha, thanks. [00:51:23] Hrm, I thought the -ball wikis (I assume this is what this is for) already had a commonswiki of sorts... @Agent am I hallucinating that? [00:52:07] They do [00:52:13] [[mh:polcom:]] [00:52:13] https://mh.wikipedia.org/wiki/polcom: [00:52:13]

[00:53:03] oh [00:53:05] damn [00:53:16] the link in the ballmedia discord wasn't working [00:53:25] Yeah, the URL got moved it seems [00:53:44] any wiki you want can join this commons wiki setup [00:54:02] well [00:54:30] I think first off it being in closed [00:54:36] is sub optimal [00:54:55] It's open [00:55:00] I assume that acc is the bureacrat? [00:55:33] Which account? [00:56:06] I mean schizoacc [00:56:33] I'm seeing 3 active opps... [00:56:34] https://commons.polandballwiki.com/wiki/Special:ListUsers/sysop [00:57:14] yeah [00:57:57] It seems polcomwiki was affected by the db141 incident hence why it's all over the place [00:58:27] this feels more like a polandball commons but that can be changed [00:58:56] Refreshing was leading to some fun outcomes as you power-updated all the busted settings and extension toggles. 😄 [00:59:02] All Ballmedia members can appoint sysops for Commons but no one has exercised that right [00:59:23] heh, sorry [00:59:27] Just realized everything was borked [00:59:39] Distinct from Ball Corporation. Get your jar division here and your missile guidance over there. [01:00:14] didn't know guess I will appoint myself then? [01:00:22] If you want [01:00:25] What's your username again? [01:00:32] Aycee_Lovelace [01:00:38] also, didn't realize Ball Corp. was also in the aerospace game [01:00:44] I just knew they made jars lol [01:00:49] the more you know [01:01:33] Done [01:04:58] goddamn there are a lot of polandball comics here [01:05:30] I think the first thing I am gonna do is clean up duplicates [01:06:04] and then unused files with no purpose [01:10:58] @Agent we should probably also fix the url name cus it prioritizes polandball but idk how feasible changing the name is [01:11:16] what do you think the URL should be? [01:11:30] I'm fine with changing it to a .miraheze.org domain but the subdomain is iffy [01:11:43] something like "ballcommons.miraheze.org"? [01:11:57] works perfectly [01:12:14] I'll do that in a bit then [01:13:17] https://commons.polandballwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Special:ListDuplicatedFiles&limit=500&offset=0 [01:13:21] oh jesus christ [01:13:46] There seems to be 594 duplicate files [01:13:51] I can mass nuke them if you wish [01:15:14] sure [01:15:16] sounds good [02:27:50] Can anyone give some insight on this [02:31:51] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:RequestWikiQueue/31298 - does anyone else see a possible issue this person's username? [02:31:56] "PBSKidsSchoolOfficial" [02:36:22] Seems a bit inadvisable. [02:41:33] yea [06:00:28] test [06:00:38] yay im on hexchat [06:05:09] wow [06:08:50] yep [06:08:54] its working well [06:13:50] hexchat is foss and its great and everything but its ugly [06:14:03] i tried to personalize my theme with a genshin wallpaper and i cant get it working right [06:14:10] the colors are so hard to get working right [06:14:28] IRCCloud ftw [06:15:37] is irccloud foss [06:17:27] oh yeah [06:17:42] is there a policy against making PRs with confusing descriptions [06:17:44] because i did it https://github.com/miraheze/mw-config/pull/5188 [06:20:48] collei: well, it's curtousey to label them correctly [06:20:50] Anyhow [06:21:07] You should incorporate the setting into the array and not place it as a standalone [06:21:14] or else MediaWiki won't read it [06:23:08] oh @Agent i see [06:23:12] i didnt notice there was an array [06:50:25] It has to be in $wgConf or it won't work. [07:16:11] What's that meme that goes "Oh God no"? [07:16:12] https://www.reddit.com/r/FuckMiraheze/ [07:16:19] Sub description: [07:16:22] > Miraheze fucking put us, reddit on their so called “Rotten Websites Wiki” just for their 8-year old fanbase to kill us. Also, raid this. https://rottenwebsites.miraheze.org/wiki/Reddit?veaction=edit§ion=1 [07:17:11] Pretty sure it's a joke tho [07:27:35] worse designed reddit I've seen so far [07:27:55] last post 1 year ago so eh [07:37:07] @Legroom#2748 yeah i know, its a dead sub [07:41:06] QP is stupid [07:41:16] 13 reasons why does not promote suicide wtf [07:41:30] i pirated a while ago but didnt finish it [07:42:25] especially this, w/ the assocation fallacy: "Very graphic, disturbing, and even triggering scenes that wouldn't look out of place in an exploitation movie, so much so that Netflix had to issue trigger warnings before the start of some episodes" [07:42:36] "wouldn't look out of place in an exploitation movie" :person_standing: [07:43:18] well it has several other issues but i wont go into it now [07:43:30] they are telepedia's problem now [07:43:57] fuck Miraheze 😡 [07:44:01] lmaoo [07:44:10] how dare they put reddit on rotten websites wiki [07:44:22] collei I'm sorry but not QP is finally out of Miraheze seeing convos about it again and again in main channel ... [07:44:25] THATS THE ONLY PLACE I GET MY EKITTENS 😡😡 [07:44:37] * now [07:44:52] Let’s move on please [07:44:56] alright sorry [07:45:26] #general is not the forum the for discussing a sub-farm that has departed our hosting nor some baby whose upset by it [07:45:38] If you wish to carry on, at least go to #offtopic [07:45:45] alright understood [08:31:45] Any guesstimates on if/when cargo might be back online? There seemed to be some work done to sidestep the vulnerability. [09:27:32] unknown [09:27:48] Void is working on a workaround right now but there’s no ETA [09:28:03] for the extension itself, also TBD (but likely much longer than the workaround( [11:32:55] Please do not do stuff like that for all wikis without a consultation. [11:34:10] MediaWiki default is `true`, there's no reason why it should be `false` on Miraheze. [11:57:40] Why is mirahzee broken and down on all wikis. Is there a reason for that? [12:08:49] Both meta, and my own wiki works fine for me [12:10:56] Hmm I know for a reason for the other wikis I.e crappy games, awful movies, and rotten websites. And how did your wiki stay up for both meta? [12:18:37] That sounds like reception wiki names, so yeah there would be the reason then, and is FAR from the whole of miraheze [12:29:55] Where does this relay to, Discord? [12:41:24] yes @ lcawte [12:42:50] Miraheze is a wiki hosting, there are over 5k wikis, reception wikis were only small part of it and they were kicked out in mid 2022 for bringing too much trouble for everyone [12:49:12] They were closed for systemic policy violations [13:08:45] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> Hey uhh I need some help [13:09:11] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> Do you know user Chace1204? [13:10:04] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> Well....I didn't realize you couldn't change peoples ranks if you made them a bureaucrat... [13:10:35] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> And I ranked him to that so he could make the wiki look more pretty and stuff [13:10:53] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> But now I can't change him from bureaucrat to just admin. [13:11:13] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> What do I do? [13:12:52] You can change bureaucrat permissions via ManageWiki to allow bureaucrats to remove other bureaucrats, but it's risky, as Chace could possibly realize that you changed it to demote them and demote you before you can [13:13:53] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> Well I did tell him beforehand that I was gonna do it because I only ranked him to change the wiki's skins and stuff [13:13:58] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> So he should be fine [13:14:05] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> Thank you for the help! [13:15:25] only stewards can demote bureaucrats [13:15:51] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> Oh [13:16:07] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> Well now what do I do [13:31:10] well, that has tl be asked here or on stewards noticeboard [13:31:37] idk what will happen in your case [13:44:38] I mean since it seems like nothing malicious is going on in this case, I would think having Chace confirm he do want to get demoted, should be fine [13:45:04] yeah I guess [15:04:09] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> Hey I had a question [15:04:28] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> Is there anyway I can view my own global uploads? [15:05:06] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> I had this upload for a now deleted wiki and I wanted to see if it still shows up for my uploads so I can reuse it [15:05:17] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> Its probably in Static or something [15:07:14] There is no global uploads page, no [15:07:33] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> Oh..ok [15:07:36] Apart from accounts, MediaWiki doesn't keep much global records and wikis remain separate [15:07:54] But if you want and if the wiki hadn't been deleted, I can temporarily restore it [15:08:57] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> The file I wanted was from CLG Dream Logos. The image was a banner I had that I wanted to carry to the new "The Dream Logos Wiki" [15:09:35] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> Either that or I may have uploaded it to AVID instead. Let me check [15:10:45] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> Nope, totally the deleted Dream Logos Wiki [15:10:55] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> May you temp-restore it please? [15:12:25] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> Or, another option, I can gather up all the files from there and import them into Dream Logos since I forgot to do that when it was shutting down. My bad. 😅 [15:12:34] <𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖎e#1132> Both work [15:20:24] @Agent we do track global uploads, not sure how much is recorded [15:21:09] Not user though [15:21:22] And we can’t do cross DB queries [15:21:40] Deleted wikis files are wiped though [15:30:15] Hey, I hate to ask since I know this has been a recurring topic, but has there been any progress on enabling Semantic MediaWiki on wikis that need a replacement for Cargo? I know there are other people waiting besides myself [16:08:31] A system administrator has to be around to run a script to enable SMW or else SMW won't work as it should hence the delay [16:08:53] @Reception123 might you be around later to clerk the "Restricted settings" section of the SN? ^ [16:36:58] Sure, will try to have a look later [18:14:47] [1/2] I will say I can't wait to be able to use smw on the sagan 4 alpha wiki in particular; I used smw to make a thing that displays random living relatives of a species entry and got it working on the mason wiki, and on implementation on other Sagan 4 projects, it will make finding inspiration with the random page button less tedious / actually viable. Especially on Alpha, w [18:14:47] [2/2] hich is far along and very well-developed with several mass extinction events and has considerably more extinct species than extant ones as a result. [18:15:12] like, the things I can do are mega exciting [18:15:37] I could probably do it with cargo before but I just like smw and working with smw a lot more [18:19:12] @CosmicAlpha i like your pfp ngl [18:40:58]