[00:10:54] Are multiple accounts allowed on Miraheze [00:11:23] Templating CSS grid would be terrific. [00:11:33] [[Useraccountspolicy]] [00:11:33] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/User%1daccounts%1dpolicy [00:11:33]

[00:13:40] Because XNDUIW Simon has multiple accounts [00:16:07] Do you spot a problem around that? If so, I'm not sure this is the right place for it... perhaps someone can suggest an alternative space. [00:16:24] No there is no problem with it [00:16:31] There are some legitimate uses for multiple accounts. [00:17:20] I myself have multiple, MH volunteers are aware. I'm careful to only use one on meta, the other for another site etc. Helps me keep my activities separated for separate purposes. [00:17:49] Probably on MH volunteers can tell if they are indeed the same person. Some users of a particular group like to prefix their group with the same prefix, but have separate endings, for example. One for bot use, etc etc. [00:18:52] Oh okay [00:18:58] The key takeaways in that policy I linked "Users are allowed to have multiple user accounts" and "use common sense", no misuse etc. [00:19:20] In other words, if they are used for legitimate purposes, and no misuse, then it's probably fine. [00:19:36] If they're found to misuse them, they're at risk of losing them all. [00:20:18] That didn’t misuse there accounts [00:20:49] Yep, so unless it becomes account creation "spam" (an excessive number of accounts), or misused, probably nothing to worry about. [00:21:11] Ok so we’re good [00:21:23] Yep, if it's your site, just keep an eye on it. [00:21:42] I’ll just keep an eye on it [00:22:10] Our wiki has a tighter user name policy (that builds on MH's), we don't like multiple accounts unless the user has a good reason. [00:23:09] Sometimes we'll politely ask them. But if there's no additional policy in place (and it can't clash with with MH policy, which always overrides) then usually it's fine. [00:27:00] 6 is a lot... [00:27:25] One says staff member, another "administrator" [00:28:12] They do all have different ending names... interesting. [00:28:38] Are they actually "administrator" and "staff member"? Perhaps reach out to them on their talk page? [00:29:38] Okay [00:29:59] Do you know these folks? Are the posing as wiki staff/administrator, or are the people you know? [00:30:14] Yes I know them [00:30:22] They are people I know [00:30:30] So you know they're different people then? [00:30:48] I know it’s the same person [00:31:50] Does this person have a valid reason for making 6 users? I can't imagine someone needing that many... [00:32:15] Anyway, perhaps a MH volunteer can advise on this case. [00:32:44] I don’t know why either [00:33:10] His master account is XNDUIW Simon [00:34:12] I'd have a good read of that policy, it also says "Please only create accounts you intend to use," there's also this one: [[Alternate_accounts]] [00:34:12] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Alternate_accounts [00:34:13]

[00:34:48] And if you're concerned you can reach out to someone in the cvt channel to ask more questions, perhaps. [00:37:15] If you know them, it might help to make them aware of the policy. [00:37:58] Do they need a global lock or no [00:39:15] That's a question for a MH volunteer, I don't know. [00:40:56] As far as I can read in the essay linked (which isn't policy), "Alternate accounts are accepted for a variety of purposes until they demonstrate bad intentions, listed below as illegitimate use." [00:42:22] They do not [00:42:26] unless they use the accounts to circumvent local restrictions [00:43:29] Definitely, I'd share both links with them, so they don't run afoul of policy and best practice, without meaning to. [00:43:53] In a helpful way ofc [00:44:23] As I see some stuff about administrators and such in there... [00:50:33] Was UserMerge removed, or does some other extension cover that now? I noticed the values in the table aren't displaying properly now. [00:50:47] And it's gone from Special:Version [00:51:15] The manual page doesn't indicate it's discontinued or integrated./ [00:52:26] Ah, nm, found in phab, unsupported. [01:17:22] Probably hasn’t been removed since it comes with CA. What you’re seeing is a message cache issue. [02:58:09] [1/2] Another Cargo q, did that "hack" where if you empty edit it'll force cargo to add values into tables get removed [02:58:09] [2/2] I checked github but I don't see anything that stands out that would prevent that [03:16:15] Can you clarify what you mean by the last bit "add values into table get removed"? [03:18:12] So, a null edit to try to get a value into a table, just the removed part I don't understand. [03:23:24] The ability to do the empty edit hack used to exist, but doesn't any more [03:23:52] Is your table just taking a long time to populate? [03:24:15] I have no clue lol [03:24:45] Which table are you trying to get a value into? [03:25:59] Ps. I like that skin! [03:26:04] atm, 'cards' [03:26:46] Oh yeah Citizen is fantastic, shout out to alistair [03:30:47] If it's just tables populating slowly that would make sense why that trick isn't working 🤔 [03:30:49] K, so in the logs I see you recreated the cards table an hour ago at least [03:32:04] Yeah changed the schema a bit [03:32:04] I'm not sure how long they take to populate on MH. [03:32:18] I do recall it's been slow at times [03:32:41] Though sometimes they can get stuck too [03:33:17] It's been a long time since I've recreated anything apart from some test tables so I don't remember [03:34:06] Yeah, usually only when a column needs added etc. [03:34:33] I have had table creation/recreation get stuck/stalled out a couple of times. [03:34:53] I'd give it a half hour, your count is at 41 right now [03:35:34] When they get stuck, they kinda do it silently, unfortunately, and it just stops populating. [03:36:09] Definitely keep an eye on the rows. [03:36:42] See if it moves, if it doesn't after a while, perhaps it got interrupted somehow. [03:37:01] I'd do a retry, and if it keeps failing, then I'd maybe make a phab ticket. [03:37:58] I think I can recreate data through the shell? [03:38:01] I'll have a look at the maintenance script for it [03:38:01] Yep, absolutely [03:38:10] No idea how to use it [03:38:15] It [03:38:18] It's pretty easy [03:38:48] [03:38:49] I don't know the syntax for it 😆 [03:38:56] ah [03:38:57] danke [03:39:06] What's the table name for the wonky table? [03:39:14] Makes sense, I do remember a long time ago table recreations getting stuck at like single digits for hours [03:39:16] `cards` [03:39:25] Running now [03:39:32] Thanks agent! [03:39:35] Thanks! [03:39:53] np [03:40:08] Actually, since you're there... [03:40:36] I see that the _pageData table is turned on but not populated. [03:40:48] Most times, it'll fail for that one, because there's so much in it. [03:40:53] I'm not sure if other tables are also stuck, so I'll take a look at those [03:41:00] Just checking to see if there's a different syntax for that. [03:41:28] Should I recreate the data for that table too? [03:41:33] I haven't ever used _pageData before, what's that table do? [03:41:48] One sec and I'll grab the explanation for you. [03:41:58] I just noticed you had it, but never populated. [03:42:47] so if you look at the bottom there [03:43:07] Table finished recreating [03:43:07] Here's the explanation for what pageData does (we use it) [03:43:36] There's actually a lot you can't query, if _pageData isn't populated, but it really depends on your use if you need it. [03:44:17] So for example, `_categories` HOLDS [categoryname] [03:44:32] Oh that's like the info action [03:44:47] I just wanna take a quick look at the MH mediawiki config to make sure it's actually listed there and that section isn't just a default view [03:45:32] If it's default Cargo config then it's default Miraheze config too [03:45:44] Not sure what the cli outputs but I'm seeing 128 in the ui which is off from the number of actual rows supposed to be there [03:45:49] No, it has to be turned on, so requested. [03:45:51] [03:45:55] We requested on ours. [03:46:21] strange, how many should it be? [03:46:21] So an example of what to request (there may be more options now tho!) [03:47:35] Same for file if you need information about file data , example right above that github line. [03:48:01] Like 600 or so [03:48:15] It usually runs a while, and takes a while. [03:48:25] It didn't take that long to run [03:48:27] I'll run it again [03:49:16] > Saving data for pages 1 to 130 that call this template... [03:49:26] only detects 130 pages? [03:49:30] Oh huh _pageData got populated [03:49:43] yeah, I ran the script and it started getting populated [03:50:13] Ohh I was thinking there was a side effect or something going on [03:50:50] I have WAY too many tabs open. [03:51:22] Oh, I always thought it had to be set in LocalSettings.php [03:51:32] I wonder if you guys have this info elsewhere now that it's on its own db [03:52:44] Ah, yes, it does. [03:52:45] It doesn't grab all the columns without that. [03:52:47] Only the page name. [03:53:20] So, you'll need to request the LocalSettings.php change, that has the columns you want (or all listed in the docs) and they can do a recreate on _pageData. [03:53:41] Hmm so when I check "what links here" for the template that stores cargo there's this option to exclude transclusions from the list [03:55:05] There's over 500 pages that aren't transcluded and clicking on a few em shows the old smw store stuff still there, which I removed from the template already [03:55:25] I can purge the parser cache if you wish [03:55:30] Hope that doesn't kill the jobqueue [03:55:45] Err would that affect other wikis too [03:56:25] I know SMW kills the jobqueue when you run refreshLinks but I don't think Cargo has any nasty side effects like that [03:56:48] There's one way to find out 😆 [03:56:55] I don't recall [03:57:03] 😆 the best way to find out [03:57:09] I think it just piles up in the queue... [03:57:17] But don't hold me to that lol [03:57:57] well, if @ChaoticShadow wants, I can purse the parser cache on `projectsekaiwiki` to see if that fixes SMW remnants appearing on pages [03:58:14] Sounds like a good idea [03:58:31] but I see what you mean [03:59:21] I've never done a switch between, I have no idea. [03:59:45] great learning experience! [03:59:51] Yep lol [04:01:03] I'd be nervous to do stuff like this on a farm, my own wiki, fine. I know I can fix what I bugger up on mine. [04:01:35] Sure if you're fine with it. Alternatively I can just bot purge it if that's way safer [04:03:07] Ps. After requesting _pageData columns change in LocalSettings.php: [04:03:20] _isRedirect can be useful also [04:03:28] Woah that's a lot of pages [04:03:55] Meh, we're still small. Most of it is event pages that created weekly. [04:04:03] And never looked at again lol. [04:04:34] doing... [04:04:37] 5% done [04:25:34] We've also used `_fullText` to find stuff that Cargo is lacking a DPL3 equivalent to (linksto/linksfrom) [04:25:53] And have proposed something like this get added, as it's useful, but who knows. [04:29:30] That's pretty neat, what do you do with that kind of result [04:34:54] Yeah, it's probably not super efficient to that way, but hopefully a better way (suggested) gets added, as Yaron did mention seeing utility in what was proposed. [04:35:55] He seems to be pretty darned busy tho [04:40:30] With a fullText result? We can search for image use or anything really. [04:42:32] In the case of it missing linksto/linksfrom equivalency, that's how we determine what pages a certain set of images (or image templates) is used on. [04:42:49] There's a bunch of different uses for that. [04:43:35] If a page uses a specific icon, we could list on the icon's relevant page every event that icon gets used in (say a character). [04:43:41] So every event a character appears in [04:44:11] And generate an events table on the character page based on that, particularly if events have a load of characters, where you wouldn't want to have a parameter for each, say. [04:45:05] And filter stuff out based on other criteria [04:45:42] so it's sorta using data on page to infer attributes about that page, as opposed to storing it within cargo itself? [04:46:21] Yep, when storing a volume of stuff would be cumbersome to set up. [04:46:31] Plus there's an external link one [04:47:45] It's super handy for maintenance... If items in a category or namespace don't link to something they should, it might need a page update. [04:48:28] "notlinksto" dpl3 function. [04:49:05] Frankly, the very fast nature of DPL3 to write a query and get instant results makes it better at doing maintenance related stuff heheheh. [04:49:26] Then to output the list you generate as wikitext, since you're done with the query. [04:49:33] Cargo has no equivalent function for that either. [04:49:58] I can imagine doing a query like that with cargo would be cumbersome [04:50:02] Yeah, way too slow. [04:50:07] I think we'll use both as long as we're able. [04:50:54] _fullText matching could also be used to say, get all "history" sections of a page that match a particular update number, and use that to auto-populate the matched number update page. [04:51:12] Then, when something changes, it only has to be added to page history! [04:51:55] I hadn't though about using it that way [04:52:06] Always tried to figure out how to shoehorn something into sql [04:53:04] I feel like DPL3 use expanded my brain on how to use stuff. Cargo did the same for DPL3. I'm sure SMW might also, but Cargo and DPL3 are very similar in some ways. Just the way they go about doing things is very different. [04:54:19] We created a task tracker of sorts using DPL3 lol. [04:54:51] Small template on the bottom of a page that logs information (such as update number, status, notes) but shows nothing on-page. [04:55:25] Then when we see a page is outdated, or needs something. We can note it, the query on a workboard page makes it pop in the workboard and displays the update evaluated against, status, notes lol. [04:56:04] Then when finished, note gets removed, and it's marked as reviewed under the same update number (which we chose to display on-page) lol. [04:56:39] Then we can create a dashboard of which pages were updated and when (against what update number), to see which pages probably need review soon 😆 [04:56:51] The sky is the limit with data extensions. Just gotta get creative. [04:59:11] I think most of our use came from... "gee, it sure would be nice/efficient if we could..." (followed by figuring out hair-brained a way to do it). [05:00:28]