[01:22:45] im kinda back i guess [01:22:49] not really motivated [01:23:04] been working on [[mh:backrooms:Level 10]] for like 20 days [01:23:04] https://mh.wikipedia.org/wiki/backrooms:Level_10 [01:23:05] [01:23:12] it's okay i guess but :idk: [02:11:57] See ya 😀👋 [02:14:20] Are you leaving for real? I wish you could stay so that we wouldn't have 3 people having to take care of vandalism [02:16:17] Agent left [02:16:26] Geuss that is a yes Tali 😛 [02:16:50] I will be leaving the server soon probably, just seeing some last things through. [02:17:22] There'd probably be 4 people in CVT soon if my request for GS was going better [02:24:48] @NotAracham any chance we might want to put together a miraheze meeting at somepoint? [02:24:54] i’m happy to moderate [02:25:22] given recent resignations and turbulence, some discussion with the community to try and refocus our aim would be good [02:30:13] It's safe to say that Miraheze Meetings are cancelled permanently [02:30:29] If Miraheze falls apart, where will my little wiki go? [02:30:59] Poor little wiki, she wants to have a stable home, but she is worried her home Miraheze will fall apart and shut down, then she will be homeless [02:31:56] There'll probably be a successor [02:32:13] Miraheze won't fall apart suddenly, it'll probably be a process overseen by someone [02:32:45] All this talk about Miraheze falling apart is exactly why I backed up all Miraheze wikis I own and why it's a good idea for you to do so as well [02:34:27] Too bad image dumps are restricted only to Stewards and sysadmins [02:34:53] Luckly, all my images + the fully written content is on a self hosted wiki [02:35:15] The only things on the Miraheze wiki is the unfinished content and blank pages to be fille4d [02:47:44] I would advise backups of Miraheze wikis though to be stored on your personal computer [02:47:52] To make sure you can keep all data [02:48:14] Sorry, all these people talking about Miraheze being near the end or not having a future is making me very anxious, can I ask about the status of my image dump requests? [02:48:30] No idea [02:48:37] Ah okay [02:48:38] but it won't all come crashing down [02:48:50] if something happens, there'll probably be months to prepare [02:48:54] maybe even a full year [02:49:04] YEYE of course, I'm just a very anxious person and just wanna hope for the best, prepare for the worst [02:49:20] Always a sound approach [02:49:37] Especially with my history of bad luck with tech and data lmao [02:50:23] I have just noted problems along the volunteers it seems of late, people resigning and stuff [02:51:53] [1/6] Alright it’s time for me to be fully transparent, I had reached out to a board member requesting the following. We have yet to see if it will be actioned on however. [02:51:53] [2/6] “ [02:51:53] [3/6] To the board, [02:51:53] [4/6] I am formally requesting a complete review of all actions made by Owen in his capacity as Director of Trust & Safety and as a member of the board dating back to the beginning of each term he has served, if a neutral board review is impossible, then I request a formal third party mediation. Additionally, I am asking the board to take responsibility for Trust & Safety duties until t [02:51:54] [5/6] here is more than one member of Trust & Safety, this is to prevent biased actions, and to prevent a monopoly of power. Furthermore, many community members have expressed the complete lack of accountability for Trust & Safety, this needs immediate rectification, as this is starting to violate the trust of the community. The reasoning behind asking for all this is due to the dangero [02:51:54] [6/6] us precedent of banning users for simply discussing certain users, and punishing users by mandating training for a position they no longer hold. We should be focusing on true problematic users rather than banning excellent contributors to the community. “ [02:53:02] I wouldn't hold my breath [02:53:11] The Board is basically just Void and Owen [02:53:19] And UO atm [02:53:21] I…. [02:53:55] he has said he plans to resign [02:54:03] He does, yes [02:54:06] Time to self host my other wiki? [02:54:18] I do. [02:54:19] The one for the unfinished content? [02:56:09] also a question, when image dumps are generated, will it just appear in my "manage data dump" page? [02:56:44] They will, yes [02:57:19] cool, thanks, i'll just check it every now and then [02:58:11] i've already got the user-generated xml/gz file on my computer, so i'm gonna be storing those in a few places [02:58:16] Did anyone else see this student newspaper article about Miraheze? [02:58:16] > https://huntnewsnu.com/69493/campus/student-created-huskypedia-aims-to-provide-resources-information-to-students/ [02:58:38] Wow [02:58:40] Given the current turbulence in this server, Should I assume that Miraheze's future is still up in the air somewhat? [02:58:51] Frankly, yes [02:58:54] that's a fair assumption [02:59:06] Good to know. Thanks guys [02:59:14] Thanks a lot he-who-shall-not-be-named [02:59:22] For ruining yet another project [03:00:15] 💯 [03:00:48] I just found this very recently: . It's about HWSNBN [03:01:14] i tried reading back a little but i'm still kinda confused? how is the whole incident with 'you-know-who' rocking Miraheze so badly? [03:01:42] He and his power grabs and just poor interpersonal skills have apparently led to numerous volunteers resigning [03:01:42] Because of Raidarr's ban. [03:02:09] From what I've heard, it's because of how they managed to completely beat the system and frame a Steward leading to his ban [03:02:10] I just joined yesterday after noticing his name in another discord server's project log channel that was relaying announcements from here [03:02:12] Yes, he was unfairly banned so now a great portion of volunteers are mass resigning [03:02:28] A H [03:02:42] This was what I woke up to two nights ago, in the Min-Max discord [03:02:45] so you guys need more volunteers then? [03:02:50] I recognized the name immediately. [03:04:14] OPE my image dumps just popped up, nice [03:04:59] At this point, I don't think a meeting is optional. [03:05:06] what do you mean [03:05:23] Agent: do you mind creating an offboarding task for you on Phab? [03:05:30] not yet [03:05:30] One should be had, to discuss the future of this, steps to get more volunteers, etc, imo [03:05:40] okay [03:06:16] Ultimately, the Community is the one that is running the project, and the Community should decide how to move forward, not a few shrinking teams. [03:06:25] like a call to arms. people might be more willing to step up and volunteer if the staff/other volunteers come out asking for help [03:06:40] Also I would try to get some people who left due to him back if at all possible. Mend fences, yknow? [03:06:57] That's how we operate on the English Wikipedia anyways. The Community ultimately has authority. [03:07:42] I'm glad I stopped editing Wikipedia years ago. I got my start there in grade 9 in 2001 when Wikipedia had just launched. Things were manageable then. But now, holy crap Wikipedia is just crazy and it's hard to keep up with everything going on there [03:07:52] You heard of how Jimmy Wales acted inappropriately towards a former Arbitrator? The Community removed his admin access. [03:07:54] and that's how we'd operate but you can't have a community without server staff, stewards to oversee, and other groups [03:08:16] 1 Steward for 7,000 wikis is not a good sight [03:08:34] I remember a lot of stuff about "Dimmy" lol. [03:08:45] Stewards are ultimately elected by the Community. [03:08:48] Agent: I've been told since John was ToU banned, that made a lot of WMF volunteers a lot less inclined to support Miraheze [03:09:09] if John isn't a part of it, would that help drive volunteering? [03:10:04] no idea what the beef is up with Wikimedians but I've heard a good portion has always disliked us so I don't know [03:11:25] It hurts me to see Miraheze in dark, stormy waters. [03:11:44] it hurts everyon e [03:11:46] everyone [03:12:32] Miraheze is not like how it was when I first joined [03:13:11] Remember when Miraheze was a community of friendly volunteers, not a cesspool of drama? Pepperidge Farm remembers [03:13:39] Hopefully things can return to normal 🤞 [03:14:20] i really hope so,,, [03:14:30] [1/4] Hi all, [03:14:30] [2/4] I've been thinking this over since resignations occurred yesterday, and after a lot of thought and consultation with trusted community members and friends, I think I'm going to resign all permissions across wikis. This hasn't been an easy decision, but I believe given the current situation, I cannot continue to work on a project that maintains that banning a former Steward, citing t [03:14:30] [3/4] he Terms of Use, even when countless community members have pushed back, was the right thing to do. [03:14:31] [4/4] I would appreciate if @Stewards would remove my rights, I will be filing an SN request shortly. Thank you to all at Miraheze who have made this place so much better over the past few years. If/when there is a successor to Miraheze, I hope you will join us there. Again, thank you so much for all the memories. [03:14:51] idk if there's even any good alternatives for my friends and i's wiki,,, a lot of them do0n't allow nsfw content [03:15:05] I can self host all my "Taerel" stuff [03:15:06] Am I seriously going to be the only one who's not resigning? [03:15:17] I plan to stay to the end [03:15:34] and none of us can afford paid services [03:15:40] I believe a statement needs to be made to the Miraheze board that the ban of a certain user is completely unfair. [03:16:06] _starts to gaffiti a wall with "Salva Miraheze"_ [03:16:07] would that even reverse anything? [03:16:11] If they cannot realize that, I cannot continue to work on this project, even if I've spent years dedicated to it. [03:16:22] Anyone banned because of N's nonsense should be unbanned tbh [03:16:24] Yeah I would sit in the same situation 😦 [03:16:33] Never going back to FANDOM [03:16:41] Fuck fandom [03:16:51] It was shit when it was Wikia, it's shit now [03:16:53] I would probly self host my wikis on my VPS [03:16:53] Tali64#9984: yeah... those were great times. I don't get the Pepperidge Farm remembers, but I like it :P [03:16:57] i can't use fandom for our main wiki, bc there's a lot of nsfw text, and we want our wiki private [03:16:59] Wait, I just come back after a few days and what the hell happened???? [03:17:05] @MintyBingus@gummiel ok how much nsfw would it even be, like how extreme is it? nudity?? [03:17:08] What is your wiki Minty? [03:17:08] It's a Family Guy reference [03:17:15] Dmehus: "pepperidge farms remembers" is family guy meme [03:17:27] stress and frustration is a health killer [03:17:28] Oops, meant to reply to Dmehus, not you [03:17:36] Does it involve em "Erotic" text based game content? [03:17:45] no images, but a lot of text and discussion of sex, as it's for storing characters/plot stuff for an erotica story [03:17:53] You can DM it to me if it is public [03:18:04] Am I gonna have to put my wiki elsewhere or something? I'm getting nervous. I really really really love Miraheze... 😦 [03:18:08] So other places don't allow you to host a wiki with words like "penis" and such on it? [03:18:14] tf2cutcontent#0000, Tali64#9984: ah, cool. I haven't been keeping up with the latest Family Guy episodes [03:18:26] It's an older reference from the earlier years [03:18:27] I do not even watch much TV [03:18:28] it also tackles a lot of really dark content, as it's kinda horror-ish [03:18:28] Nothing is happening yet, MH will continue to exist. [03:18:37] Brian used to be my favourite character, but now I think Stewie is my favourite [03:18:42] oh [03:18:43] I would back up your wikis [03:18:44] More to come as there's more to share [03:18:54] Son of a— [03:18:57] yeah, it's already been said that Miraheze still has funding and stuff, but i'm still really nervous about what's going on [03:19:04] i really hope more volunteers step up [03:19:06] I mean in my case yes there are nudity images, as it is covering a NSFW game with actual graphic (though cartoony style (more specifically, Kisekai images)) [03:19:10] its bad for reputation overall, however i'm sure if you can provide a custom domain [$12 google domain] then maybe someone could host it with ads to cover. as long as it doesn't point back, most probably can turn a blind eye [03:19:29] Ahhh [03:19:43] ie no footer icon that states "hosted by xyz" [03:19:48] MintyBingus#4304: I would get an XML and image dump of your wiki, if you haven't already done so. It is quite likely Miraheze will not make it to its July anniversary [03:20:03] and you do not mention anywhere who is providing hosting nor tell anyone [03:20:14] i've already got an xml and image dump for both wikis i'm on [03:20:15] only way you could get free [03:20:21] 64th Gamer's Min-Max wiki on MH has been backed up after I informed them of what had been going on here, so that's taken care of for them [03:20:22] While true for sure, and also why i haven't said anything to the community at large that my wiki covers, it certainly would be foolish to not look at having a backup plan, for worst case scenario [03:20:24] If you have some technical skills and require MediaWiki, Oracle Cloud provides free VMs you could use [03:20:38] Otherwise, I'd recommend Notion.so [03:20:46] At this point, we need an RfC to allow the community to override T&S bans; frankly, I don't give a shit if Agent said that RfCs are unenforceable on T&S, we need to do everything we can to try and stop this [03:21:15] Tali64#9984: can't be done. The Terms of Use is a user's legal agreement with Miraheze Limited [03:21:16] That will never happen. [03:21:21] i just want whatever keeps Miraheze alive [03:21:24] T & S is one part of problem. the other problem is SRE is getting depleted [03:21:49] restoring trust is step 1 [03:21:59] how that's accomplished I can't even start to imagine at this point [03:22:20] Unban raidarr [03:22:20] "I already saw MWZip die on me... not again" she says. She then looks down on the floor sadly and at her paint corvered hands. "Why me?" [03:22:25] T&S is one person at this point. That is a huge problem. [03:22:32] not to be a downer but frankly I don't see how that happens [03:22:47] ? [03:22:54] The power in the hands of few is bad. [03:23:36] nah, the power in wrong hand is bad, not few or more [03:23:39] [1/2] well you would need more volunteers to step up big time [03:23:39] [2/2] second a total restructure of how the org operates must be on the table with a serious discussion. no weaseling out of it or deflecting from it [03:23:54] I just feel as a commuty, well, maybe not all the ones with the privs have our best intersts at heart sometimes [03:23:58] The problem is multi-faceted. We had problematic rabble-rousers, one of which had his GS bit revoked, the other of which is now community-banned (thank you CosmicAlpha for doing that). So yes, that was a major part. The other part is a lack of trusted volunteers, power concentration in few hands, and, fundamentally, a desire to be all things to all people with limited technical and financial resources, resulting in Miraheze's infrastructure not [03:23:58] being able to scale to meet the demand [03:23:59] The first I don't see how that happens [03:24:08] I respect the decisions of individuals, but I have observed that resignations only exacerbate the current problems at hand. [03:24:25] Exactly. There should be at least 3 people in T&S, and if there's less than that, there may as well be none [03:24:36] dmehus: I don't think it's appropriate to talk about certain users in that manner [03:24:37] ^^^^ [03:24:45] Nale I don't care but the other one goes too far [03:24:48] it's just making people panic more [03:25:10] and what we need is for everyone to be calm and focused [03:25:33] ok so first off, in terms of UK law. if you improperly disclose PII, then you are out no matter what. same for disclosing what is told in confidence over in DM [03:25:36] BWM#6978, I didn't name any users, but I trust people can read between the lines, and nevertheless, I am just reflecting the views of several users in that discussion [03:25:38] I mean, some users are needlessly doomsaying [03:25:41] I'm not sure why [03:26:02] Yes the project is going under but why panic now when the existence of the project is guaranteed for at least until the end of the year [03:26:04] M3W#0000, I don't think it's appropriate to speculate in that manner [03:26:24] wait so Miraheze is gonna be gone in a few months? [03:26:31] that was based off what folks have hinted at [03:26:40] You know what this is reminding me of? Qualitipedia [03:27:04] QP fell apart when Raidarr resigned, and Miraheze started falling apart when Raidarr got T&S banned [03:27:12] Agent, not necessarily. It can run without volunteers [03:27:17] I just started going back to my wiki after a few months of depression... 😦 Is there any official statement anywhere about what's happening? ☹️ [03:27:31] i'm getting so many conflicting answers; some are saying Miraheze is fine, others are saying it'll be gone by July, others in a few months [03:27:38] Yeah... [03:28:17] in terms of infrastructure rot, SRE and Infrastructure simply need to accept that do not have the technical skills to match WMF infrastructure. switch back to technology the existing team understands to operate and maintain. that ensures stability in that sense. [03:28:23] Miraheze is perfectly fine for now [03:28:25] m3w#0000, I have had private discussions similarly, and have not heard anything of that sort. Nevertheless, I don't see it as appropriate to speculate on publicly. Let's keep that to the side channels :) [03:28:30] just no one to tend to requests [03:28:38] Because it very much depends on the eye of the beholder so to say. from what I remember, it was said that there are at least money to last to the end of the year [03:28:47] yep [03:29:10] No thanks in part to Agent for the fundraiser this year. [03:29:12] 🙂 [03:29:13] i think Miraheze needs to get together and actually make a proper thing to lay out what's actually going on, so people aren't just seeing fragments [03:29:15] refusing to have the difficult discussion is not going to avoid the elephant in the room [03:29:16] unfortunate that I won't ever get to organize another fundraiser [03:29:24] How can I help you? [03:29:37] I do not think I could volunteer as I do not have the skills for that [03:29:43] Agent, having the financial wherewithall and running it down until you're out of money is just prolonging the issue. It may not be within the board's fiduciary duty to do that, if they know they have no volunteers [03:30:16] I only lack time, skill were never an issue [03:30:31] Right now the room doesn’t have the information to have an informed discussion on the matter so a conversation is not useful [03:30:36] m3w#0000, maybe, but until raidarr requests it be discussed publicly, that is not something that T&S can discuss publicly [03:30:55] the SRE budget is due soon too [03:30:57] At the most I could handle wiki requests [03:31:12] I was referring to infra as an issue. moved past that [03:31:14] Agent, I'm sure there will be other wiki farms around which we can coalesce and organize :) [03:31:22] indeed [03:31:29] 😦 [03:31:31] after all, there was 0rain, then there was Miraheze, there will be something else [03:31:38] yep [03:31:38] maybe even a tiny bit of time would be helpful [03:31:39] I already did appoval/deny of commisson requests in another Discord server for a while, so if it is like that it could work [03:31:40] I believe Agent mentioned a successor? [03:31:50] [1/4] Miraheze made many mistakes. The entirety of the organization keeping afloat relies upon one person right now, Owen, the only one to have physical server access, the only member of T&S, chair of the board, and the only UK board member, without a UK board member we wouldn't be able to stay either. There are a lot of issues, and I am beyond thinking they can be repaired, which [03:31:50] we'll see 😉 [03:31:50] [2/4] that paired with the unfair ban of Raidarr was the reason for my resignation from the community and impending resignation from the board. [03:31:50] [3/4] I would like to make perfectly clear, Miraheze IS NOT going anywhere overnight, if something does happen, it would take months, perhaps longer. I would like to avoid the doomsday talk here, and try to be positive towards these difficult times. There honestly isn't much you can do at this point and this is just exacerbating things further. I urge you not to panic, as things w [03:31:51] [4/4] ill not go anywhere overnight. This is undo panic and stress for most users you need not immediately worry. [03:31:55] WikiForge may honestly be Miraheze's sucessor [03:32:33] Ohg, I am doing nice banners for my wiki now [03:32:42] Tali64#9984, indeed, and I do like that name. :) [03:33:06] yeah this doomsday talk is terrifying tbh, and we can't migrate to wikiforge bc, from what i can tell, it's only a paid subscription [03:33:16] CosmicAlpha, yes, but I would think a three month orderly transition period, max, should be sufficient [03:33:23] actually, a free version was announced [03:33:23] WF is launching a free option, I heard [03:33:28] Seven months is too long, imho [03:33:29] OOh, what is it? [03:33:40] This reminds me of DevintArt [03:33:49] I don't have much more information than what was announced [03:34:22] What is the free WikiForge sub like? [03:34:42] I don't think a free version of anything will be as good as Miraheze's. If I cannot use custom domains like I can with Miraheze...I may as well go back to using offline stuff... 😞 [03:34:52] Self host? [03:35:01] It's too complicatd for me. [03:35:17] I've tried, that's why I'm here. [03:35:36] It'll be exactly like Miraheze but I'm guessing it'll be a bit stricter in what it wishes to host in order to stop the many blunders that have damaged Miraheze's reputation [03:35:38] i hope that's the case [03:35:51] I think the free version just not includes the power hungry options like CirrusSearch, the same reason why MH also not deploy that [03:35:52] I top up my hosting account each year or so [03:35:55] <:thistbh:764649024875528192> [03:35:59] as long as it allows written nsfw, i'll be happy [03:36:10] [03:36:11] Agent, yeah, 👍 from me for that [03:36:17] idk what cirrussearch even is, so thankfully that won't affect me [03:36:23] This is like the story of DevintArt, just with wikis, not art [03:36:40] NSFW wikis have been a huge plague at Miraheze that were never dealt with adequately and severely damaged our reputation beyond repair [03:36:43] I guess we'll have to see [03:36:55] Wait, what. [03:36:55] Did you notice the MH's search function is kinda dumb? It's because they didn't use CirrusSearch [03:37:11] I found out I can use it to search pages by writer [03:37:15] dmehus: could you hop on Discord for a second? [03:37:20] The only thing that can possibly stop the downfall of Miraheze is a complete reorganization and the addition of checks and balances and separation of powers to stop this community dissatisfaction [03:37:28] How in heaven did NSFW wikis become a bad thing for Miraheze? [03:37:41] As I have template that notes down each writer's name and it shows in seach [03:37:55] well there's always titlekey though that has its own limitations. it can't do partial title searches and it does take a bit of resources [memory, cpu] [03:38:06] I seem to aways "Think with MediaWiki" when I have problems [03:38:07] Agent, I don't think it was the NSFW wikis. It was the likes of the libelous wikis, nonciclopediawiki, the Reception wikis, the inane content-less listicle-style wikis, and the enwiki forks [03:38:12] i really hope it does,,, since our wiki doesn't deal with anything illegal or anything, it's all just adults and on a private wiki [03:38:24] It won't happen. It is impossible at this point, things have gone to far to long without people willing to change and it brought us here. [03:38:28] dmehus: it was all of the above [03:38:31] Most were perfectly fine and respected the rules. Some used it instead as a dump for every piece of fetish imagery imaginable that ran into copyright and the other kind of CP complaints. [03:38:32] and more [03:38:32] dmehus: they became a really big issue post you getting revoked [03:38:42] nsfw will damage reputation, that's always been the case [03:38:50] in fact, a scandal around them caused Raidarr to resign the first time [03:39:04] ..........oh. <:blobconcerned:628392928963985418> [03:39:05] Agent: okay, fair enough, though I did resign :) [03:39:20] No, unless they made bad scandals, I think there should be no problem with that [03:39:40] its damaging to the SEO of other wikis that are not sfw [03:39:50] 😦 [03:39:54] its basically silently tarnishing reputation [03:40:05] Nope, this is just false [03:40:14] Ehhh, yeah, gonna agree with Wut? on this one. [03:40:17] unless you use Google Ads or some sort [03:40:33] It mainly hurts our image but not really our SEO [03:40:38] that's another problem with Miraheze, we could be saving money using Cloudflare and there's no good reason *not* to use it. Matomo is also a rather weak extension [03:40:48] we need something better [03:40:52] I think Cloudflare has never been on the table because of privacy? [03:40:58] It really depends on the scope and content. I have done a lot of research into SEO, it technically doesn't damage SEO, it can damage reputation if it gets severe enough, but minor probably wouldn't be a that bad. [03:41:22] Agent, not what I understood. John had objections to it being "not 100% open-source," I think? [03:41:44] and not using Google Analytics is because of the strict EU/UK privacy laws [03:41:55] we should base this successor in the US [03:41:59] A US domicile may be more advantageous for a new wiki farm [03:42:01] oh no, now I remember, it'd be really expensive to use CloudFlare because they don't support the ability to resolve nonexistent subdomains on plans other than their enterprise plan [03:42:01] yes [03:42:05] does Cloudflare force you to use privacy unfriendly stuffs? [03:42:13] 🤔 [03:42:13] Agent, oh [03:42:21] I have looked into GA, it should be compatible with the GDPR potential [03:42:39] We still have to follow EU privacy laws. [03:42:50] Or we get blocked in the EU. [03:42:58] a great number of people don't trust Google Analytics [03:42:59] yeah but basing it in the US means that we're obligated to follow US organizational laws [03:43:05] I have a VPN so fear not blocks [03:43:30] GDPR is actually useful in my opinion. [03:43:30] CosmicAlpha, I don't believe that is the case. I'm sure EU residents have accounts with, say, Canadian-only web hosts. [03:43:41] good morning, now what I've missed [03:43:53] Possible successors to Miraheze [03:43:58] not much, we're still on the same page except that I finally resigned [03:44:01] I think we all need to calm down and think this through; doomsaying doesn't help any of us. If it's true, it just causes people to freak out and fucks up Miraheze quicker. If it's not true, it just whips people into a massive panic [03:44:04] Only countries part of the European Economic Area or having certain bilateral agreements would be subject to that [03:44:19] Wikimedia doesn't seem to care about the GDPR [03:44:36] Well, I'm already sad, so. I guess off to look for a replacement I go... 😠 [03:44:36] I think everyone here has accepted it's fate. With a severely crippled CVT and SRE, we all know what the future holds [03:44:46] that's cause WMF cause enough public backlash that the EU basically gave WMF an exemption [03:44:47] I resigned as well :p [03:44:50] no one should panic, the immediate future is guaranteed [03:44:53] oh [03:44:55] ... [03:45:03] You must follow it for EU citizens. Even Wikimedia has been threatened with a block to follow into compliance before. [03:45:09] m3w#0000: oh wow [03:45:13] Who wants to check out the new look of my wiki? [03:45:21] is there no way any of the volunteers would come back just to keep Miraheze from dying? [03:45:29] WMF do not have an exemption, they follow thr GDPR also. [03:45:41] @marqaroll https://taerel.com/wiki/index.php/Taerel:An%27und_Grove [03:45:42] Or like finding new ones [03:45:43] regardless of the feelings held, if I'd worked on something for years I'd want to keep it alive [03:45:53] pretty sure EU backed down after WMF threatened to end services in EU [03:45:54] I think we've all given up [03:46:04] 7 years down the drain but oh well, to the next project :) [03:46:07] can you guys find a way to publicly ask for volunteers? bc not everyone is on discord [03:46:07] Maybe the Lord and Lady will have an asnwer for me [03:46:13] CosmicAlpha, I don't think that's true. Users have requested to be GDPRed and WMF refused [03:46:22] I recall that wikis/encylopedias got exempted to a certain extent [03:46:29] you shouldn't talk like that. you don't have to give up [03:46:48] They only do it for EU citizens [03:46:54] Sadly I cannot steal my dizapam [03:47:17] This has been discussed internally quite extensively, almost all core volunteers have come to the same conclusion which is why I'm at peace [03:47:19] CosmicAlpha, I don't think that is the case. They have a page on one of their wikis that says they don't have to follow that [03:47:40] Oh, should I do banners for each group as well [03:47:45] Interesting... 🤔 [03:47:52] dmehus: we have multiple conversations going on, mind moving this one to #miraheze-offtopic? [03:47:52] I could use their flag/icon as a banner [03:48:05] CosmicAlpha, sure :) [03:48:15] The old look: https://quyraness.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges?hidebots=1&hidecategorization=1&limit=1000&days=60&enhanced=1&urlversion=2 [03:48:20] you guys still have funding, there should be something that can be done [03:48:40] This is why folks have tried to make it clear there’s no immediate concern [03:48:43] again, is there no chance that people could put a pause on their resignation? [03:48:55] the main issue is "How to restore trust" [03:48:58] Agent: see DMs [03:49:07] yeah but then we have people just very firmly saying "Miraheze is dying, bye" [03:49:16] which doesn't help anything [03:49:18] are there enough trustworthy folks that are qualified to be trained as T&S? [03:49:48] how to comply with regulations can be taught [03:49:51] Well, I still have hope. It is a small flame that fits in the palm of my hand, but it still burns. We must find a way to faul the hope into a bonfire. [03:50:06] Huh. I kind of like the the old one. 😅 [03:50:17] ^^^^ [03:50:32] I am making the theme open to use by all as I am moving to a new theme# [03:50:40] I am making the theme open to use by all as I am moving to a new theme# [03:50:49] Ah, okay. [03:50:51] i'd do just about anything to keep Miraheze alive, even donating what little money i have [03:50:52] Some voices have been overly negative and ‘doomsaying’ about it. With a lack of volunteers the project would eventually cease operation unless the situation changes; but there’s no immediate risk of the service suddenly shutting down. [03:51:22] yeah, and doomsaying just makes it less likely that people would want to volunteer [03:51:48] I nam not really sure how I can help, as I have only £26 and well, I am kinda busy with Taerel [03:51:59] i've got maybe $50 to my name [03:52:18] would donations do anything to prolong Miraheze's lifespan? [03:52:32] I have less than that to my name. 🙃 And I'm very busy with my worldbuilding, too... [03:52:51] I am curranly working on page banners for each page of my wiki [03:53:05] And they look great, too. [03:53:08] I’m unqualified to answer that question sorry. But I haven’t changed my monthly GitHub subscription [03:53:48] I think the banners look way nicer then the old TOC [03:54:13] I do like the banners, yes. [03:54:38] I went for a more "WikiVoyage" look for the wiki this time around [03:55:36] I really wish I could do my own hosting for my wiki... [03:55:45] But it's far too complicated for me. 😦 [03:55:47] Hmmm, I may be able to help [03:56:15] [1/2] I'm sticking around. We're not exactly tight for cash at the moment (well no more than usual really). What we really need are people. Engineers who can work on our infrastructure. Engineers who can work on MediaWiki and keeping it up to date. Moderators who can help the community at large. Trusted contributors who can manage Trust and Safety requests. And finally, a lot of energy [03:56:16] [2/2] (especially lately) has been going towards things other than building the platform. That focus isn't really there and it needs to be. [03:56:25] Maybe if I finish all the Taerel banners, (probly in 3 months or so), I may be able to [03:56:43] so there's hope for Miraheze, then, if you just find the people? [03:56:47] That'd be nice. ☺️ [03:56:56] ... hmnmm, DevintArt forums... hmm [03:57:09] I applied to become a Global Sysop to help with vandalism, but it's not going so well [03:57:10] Hey folks, just dropping in for a brief moment to share some thoughts. Please don't respond or ping me til I'm done. I don't think this problematic leadership culture is new, nor do I think that Nale actually caused these problems, at least not directly. My retirement in 2020 was in part due to the unexplained unilateral global banning of Examknow, [03:57:10] who, like Raidarr, was otherwise a user in good standing. This was before T&S was a thing, but I think it shows that the problematic culture of SRE and now T&S goes back at least that far. [03:57:11] Hmm, wonder if job board sites would allow volunteer posts [03:58:15] There’s quite a few board like sites that allow volunteers to recruit other volunteers for projects - it’s just knowing where to look and what is posted [03:58:29] WMF T&S and EnWp ArbCom has taken a lot of flack on more than one occasion for unilateral and unexplained bans of users in good standing. Miraheze as an organization is starting to make the same mistakes (in fact already has made the same mistakes) [03:58:31] I am in a pair of freelance servers that allow volunteer posts [03:58:32] I’m on quite a few for other volunteer projects [03:58:33] I'm happy to stay on to help moderate the Discord server but on-wiki, I truly believe that the system is broken [03:58:40] I am in a pair of freelance servers that allow volunteer posts [03:58:58] They may be okay with using their unpaid work channels to post volunteer jobs [03:59:27] Yes, the system is beyond salvaging [03:59:33] Agreed [03:59:43] i really don't think doomsaying is healthy [03:59:52] It's the truth [04:00:01] I was Miraheze's #1 fan, I'm not sure if you noticed [04:00:01] Doomsaying it may be but sadly it's come to this [04:00:08] The solution is to change it [04:00:12] I was #2..... [04:00:17] by completely restarting [04:00:33] @Tali64 if it can be changed substantially I would be happy to return [04:00:38] but I've seen no evidence that it can [04:00:39] That isn't possible without a restart. [04:00:42] Pain. [04:00:44] ^^ [04:00:46] Agent is correct, a complete restart is necessary [04:00:49] a total reset is needed [04:00:49] and CA [04:00:56] what we need is a full makeover of the internal leadership structure. T&S should be disbanded at least until it's a fully staffed operation, with its duties temporarily handed over to Stewards or SRE [04:01:07] Sometimes it is best to0 let things go and move on. [04:01:18] When you say the system is broken, what part do you mean? Structurally? Community wise? When facing issues, I like analyzing all parts of it and trying to problem solve so everyone can be on the same page instead of saying it’s all broken….it doesn’t give people insight and causes panic. [04:01:41] Like the the Horned God and his life cycle, things die and are reborn anew [04:01:51] If the Board is indeed only comprised of two people, that needs to be disbanded too unless we can get some sort of emergency election/appointment [04:02:05] AmandaCath, that won't happen. The T&S is a board-appointed team. They're the successor from SRE handling ToU-related matters [04:02:11] If Owen leaves we have a larger problem [04:02:21] No one with physical server access [04:02:36] i don't agree with that tbh [04:02:57] AmandaCath, the board can appoint additional members it needs; it has the legal capacity to do so, and we have two vacant appointed seats and three vacant community seats [04:03:11] My life has been full of having to let go and move on [04:03:36] CosmicAlpha, yes, that's true. I do not see Owen going anywhere, though [04:03:48] so has mine, but i'm not doing it without a fight [04:03:50] I also noticed that Reception123 is now on wiki break... that means that there's no one to officially review my SRE application, or do much of anything else really [04:04:32] Owen legally cannot leave unless we find a successor. Because we’re a UK organization we have to have a UK board member. [04:04:40] Reception and MacFan seem to be the primary two working Phabricator tasks... if either or both leave/go inactive, that's going to be hugely problematic [04:04:48] Here is an idea for a completely new system that should hopefully fix things: The Board is the ultimate body governing Miraheze. Below that, Stewards handle the community aspect of Miraheze (including enforcing the ToU, which means no need for a separate T&S), and SRE handles the technical aspect. All are elected by the community. [04:05:15] Shit so this is a legit organization with legal standards and not just a group of people flung together trying to keep the ship righted [04:05:16] hell no [04:05:27] because no one wants to be on the board [04:05:29] If the board was dissolved as mentioned above, the LTD would be dissolved and he would. That is what I means [04:05:29] MacFan4000: 💯, yes. Or the board takes steps to dissolve the company, but so long as Miraheze Limited exists, it needs a corporate secretary-treasurer [04:05:48] Both of these things are true [04:05:49] That is even worse. [04:05:51] The reason why Stewards don't enforce the ToU is because then the Board would have the power to remove them if they enforced it incorrectly [04:06:11] What even are the requirements/qualifications to run for the board? I can't find them anywhere [04:06:11] @CosmicAlpha for a successor, thoughts on the name WikiVerse? [04:06:19] AmandaCath: See [[Board]] [04:06:19] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Board [04:06:20] tf2cutcontent#0000, exactly [04:06:21] at the bottom [04:06:23] [04:06:26] Cheesy Wikis [04:06:45] Only if it’s a 3D VR platform 🙂 [04:06:46] I don't know right now, I will discuss later, this is in regards to Miraheze right now here, and way to much happening to answer atm [04:06:55] Hmm...then there should be T&S, but the community should be able to remove T&S members if it believes that they incorrectly enforce the ToU [04:06:58] I must point out that regardless of rebuilding and reorganizing a lot of the issues I see arise here will come with it. With people organizing in great capacities it’s known growing pains. [04:07:01] AmandaCath: [[Community Directors]], but you can't just run. Stewards have to coordinate with the Secretary to Miraheze Limited to convene and election [04:07:01] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Community_Directors [04:07:36] an article about song called Sex Dwarf certainly didn't hurt your reputation, in fact it upped SEO numbers for my wikis for such heights - because of a tiktok/instagram trend [04:07:46] Wikis remind me of the weather - they are unpreticbal [04:07:58] And violent sometimes [04:08:11] I live in the UK, so, rain is normal [04:08:45] Tali64: ToU bans are approved by the Director of Trust and Safety [04:08:46] [1/2] The community will lack the information to fully judge those actions. I am part of a moderation team who has had to make moderations decisions on information we can’t and won’t share outside our group. Without the context we have some of our actions have looked extreme and we’ve taken flak for it but it’s been the “correct” option from the mod teams [04:08:47] [2/2] perspective every time so far. [04:08:55] so if you have an issue with a ban, you'd have to remove them [04:09:03] and they can't be removed as a legal officer [04:09:06] This reminds me of the guilds I was in, all the drama and then a disband [04:09:06] Tali64#9984, there is the Miraheze Limited Complaints Policy, which would go to the [[Board]]. Community has no say over T&S. It officially applies to SRE, but I believe with the creation of T&S, it extends to the T&S team :) [04:09:06] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Board [04:09:14] [[Complaints Policy]] [04:09:14] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Complaints_Policy [04:09:25] I'm just realizing that I'm not entirely sure of one thing: what was Nale's position here? Were they someone on the board or just a volunteer sysop? [04:09:38] Neither [04:09:48] That would've been the death of Miraheze [04:09:52] They were just a wiki creator [04:09:55] They were formerly a wiki creator + interface administrator [04:10:11] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/File:Miraheze-Complaints-Procedure.pdf [04:10:22] What we really need is full transparency on everything. No more of this "ToU violation, details not available" nonsense. Instead we need "This user has been banned for harassment of another user on " or "This user has been banned for violating the GDPR/mishandling private information", etc [04:10:25] Agent: it was the death of Miraheze anyway [04:10:38] Yeah for their Fortress Blast wiki. Which is a server plugin for Team Fortress 2 servers that adds in Marble Blast powerups to TF2 and is barely notable in the community as is and really didn't need its own wiki [04:10:39] Some details can't be revealed for legal reasons [04:10:46] for T&S investigations [04:10:52] those brief rationales don't expose any PII, yet they will also answer a lot of questions [04:11:30] T&S units across various companies very rarely, if ever, expose any information about cases due to legal issues [04:11:42] T&S isn't cryptic because it wants to, it is because it has to [04:12:09] yep [04:12:40] I don't think simply stating "this user breached their NDA", "this user violated the GDPR", "this user harassed another user" would have legal issues [04:12:58] Sus [04:13:02] you don't have to provide details, just a general statement of the offense [04:13:11] Possibly, but remember the subject has privacy rights [04:13:18] ^ [04:14:14] So maybe contact them to confirm if they would be okay with a simple statement like that being released? [04:14:18] [1/2] Laws are always changing but as far as I’m familiar, many details about cases are locked so the entity itself can’t be sued for disclosing any information that can be damaging to the individual or reveal more about them to open them up for public scrutiny. It’s that way in a lot of business structures. It’s disclosed on a need to know basis (closely affected), and the communi [04:14:18] [2/2] ty moves forward with very few details [04:14:38] there's literally no private info in any of the examples i just provided [04:15:15] with how complicated privacy laws can be, I would say erring on the side of caution when legalities are concerned is preferred [04:15:20] ^^ [04:17:25] You can ask them, but they may feel you're being nosey. I don't think it's necessary to state it publicly on-wiki unless they specifically request that. They are also free to discuss details if they want [04:18:20] Honestly at the end of the day I don't think that the "trust" aspect of Trust & Safety... i.e. the community's trust and confidence in T&S is going to be restored without an overall in the operational structure and significant new blood on the team [04:18:50] Especially the current one-person "team" isn't going to go welll [04:18:58] Does my wiki look better with the new banners/new look? [04:19:10] I don't think T&S will be an issue for too much longer [04:19:20] How ironic, Trust & Safety was supposed to uphold the community's trust in Miraheze, but it's done the opposite [04:19:30] Is T&S being dissolved? [04:20:26] Miraheze as a whole probably [04:20:48] I can second that [04:21:28] ...the whole farm? [04:21:53] It is after midnight here in NYC, so I'm going to sign off. But as I said last night, I'm willing to step up into whatever role(s) I physically can do without being in the UK (tech and community) in order to help keep the project afloat [04:22:04] Also, on the Discord side of things, does anyone want me to help assist on the Discord side of things? [04:22:08] Moderator or something [04:22:19] If not, I might just leave the server or stick with IRC [04:22:25] Whatever you need from me, I'll do my best. Just please reach out. [04:22:32] No one's being rowdy on Discord [04:22:37] and I don't think anyone will [04:23:06] It's rather plain, but the banners are nice. [04:23:22] I think the old look would not work with the banners [04:23:29] I agree. [04:23:31] I don't think we need that right now. Things are fine for now, and youd have to be elected anyway. [04:23:40] I can help, depending on what it entails - I’m supposed to be not taking on new projects or positions at the moment but I do love Miraheze and want to help however I can. [04:23:48] Yeah, I would only go to the trouble of submitting that request if people actually need it [04:23:53] but it doesn't look like it's necessary [04:23:54] It would be waay to cluttered with background image + banners + seethough main body [04:23:57] Not sure we need it it. [04:24:29] I consider myself good moderator untill I actually get moderator role (big bad things tend to starts, I'm cursed) lol [04:24:50] Lol [04:25:01] I think for the banners, the more plain look os better [04:25:38] I am now......just a Verified WikiUser [04:25:49] who removed me [04:25:50] I'm surprised that VPN IP isn't klined on Libera.Chat, tbqh :P [04:26:14] I just posted a long statement to MH social media mainly talking about the current state of things and putting out the strong recommendation to download wiki dumps [04:26:30] thanks MacFan4000 :) [04:26:35] Thank you MacFan4000 [04:26:41] Can you link MacFan? [04:27:02] But note that Miraheze will not go overnight. [04:27:06] https://twitter.com/miraheze/status/1666661139982299136 [04:27:20] It’s four tweets because of Twitter limits [04:30:21] gonna log off for the night [04:30:29] Night [04:30:34] anyone want/need to reach me, you know how, DMs always open if you just want to chat [04:30:56] Again, can't describe how much I've valued this community for the past few years and I want to thank you all for that [04:31:02] it means a lot 🙏 [04:31:33] I'll probably be on all almost night one last time here. I would like to second that. Miraheze has meant so much to me over the years, and it is heartbreaking to come to this. [04:33:10] actually on second thought i'm going to stay up, I have one person I'd like to talk to [04:33:15] Agent: I presume you will eventually open a SRE access removal task? [04:33:34] Yes, eventually [04:33:38] I'll get to it soon [04:34:01] IRC Relay is so on brand, I already love it here. ahem Good evening. [04:34:03] I am sorry. [04:34:04] Why are we pushing people into resigning things even faster? [04:34:57] I will be here to the very end. I promise. [04:35:32] i have no clue where i go next [04:35:38] Also, in one day, I uploaded 366 images [04:35:55] Again, there's no urgency on anything just yet, and no indication that MH is shutting down soon. [04:36:09] If that changes, it will be communicated and there will be ample time for offboarding. [04:36:12] And I had to move those from ArtStation and DevintArt, and delete from ArtStation/DevintArt once I moved them [04:36:42] NotAracham#0009, 💯 agree. I wouldn't think there would be any *less* than three months of transition time [04:36:48] I just joined, I've eyeballed miraheze for a while considering using it to host a world building project, should I adjust my potential plans to start that? [04:37:23] Raldor, maybe once I am finished with my "Taerel Banners" project, I can set you up a self hosted wiki if you have a server and a way for me to SSH in [04:37:41] I mean, maybe, as I am pretty busy with the banners stuff [04:37:45] If you mean to just start now, I would wait a few days and see where this goes. I would not recommend starting a whole new project on Miraheze right now. [04:37:51] [1/7] anyway, all of this is very sad, not being on doomtalk side here [04:37:51] [2/7] it's just all those niche personal wikis and those kicked out of FANDOM for virtually no reason will have to migrate again (I guess that tupka guy gonna have a good laugh later, too) [04:37:52] [3/7] I had a great time helping folks here too [04:37:52] [4/7] however, I'm personally looking forward to WikiForge, hopefully w/ free option becoming a real thing, if not - I'll try to find found outside of my country, because I really want my wiki to be going, especially now that I see people starting to appreciate it [04:37:52] [5/7] also, I'm a tad cautious on that "NSFW things are not allowed" - I can understand this being applied to fetish wikis, as they don't hold much of informational load but are collections essentially (who get shutdown by "copyright complaints" although it's obvious it's just a strong cards to play w/ it's clearly just the owners of media being disgusted), but otherwise - please don' [04:37:53] [6/7] t be like big tech corps, you won't have to depend on ads, then why being like that? people themselves always will be into such themes and media, common [04:37:53] [7/7] an infamous example of anti-NSFW politics - the great purge of Tumblr in 2018, they damaged so much of their platform (SFW parts included) AND reputation w/ that, it tooks them years to recover (under new ownership, downfall of Twitter is helping now too), they brought back erotic content [04:38:41] Alrighty, thank you for answering. I'll just lurk for now. I hope whatever is OK happening isn't too stressful and comes to a quiet resolution. [04:41:13] I guess if you are fine with free software liacnes, you could use GitHub to host it, but it wold just be static pages [04:41:43] WF doesn't explicitly disallow NSFW wikis, though they will be more strictly reviewed before and after approval than on MH [04:42:02] If it must be MediaWiki, well, WikiForge may have a free choice, self hosting is a thing, and there are other wiki softwares [04:42:13] Given the problems already mentioned earlier in the conversation, I'm sure folks can understand the 'why' behind that. [04:43:32] _looks at Telepedia if you’re an entertainment wiki_ [04:44:46] Well, if someone was desprate, I may be willing to donate a little spare space on a wiki (but it would be a namespace) [04:45:15] Miraheze has hosted some good examples of NSFW Wikis, one of which was PornWiki. It added an NSFW disclaimer to every page, and it wasn't a fetish wiki, though I'd rather host a fetish wiki than, say, `reallifevillainswiki` [04:45:33] or `wikiloucowiki` [04:46:38] How much content does your world have @Gravely Raldor [04:47:42] Eytirth#0001, do you still pay people to write content for your worldbuilding wiki? [04:48:34] Yes [04:48:41] cool :) [04:48:46] [1/2] I'm lowkey sad that the Kinkpedia didn't take off, it's probably deleted now w/ dormancy policy, the founder left this discord too [04:48:46] [2/2] he had a good idea and was thinking joining him [04:48:48] Been a pain, as sign ups are raraer now [04:49:05] Few dozen characters, a map and timeline with 3 established cultureso far and there's a few of us working on it using campfire but I'm not sure if fan so I started scouting for wikis (I'm a wiki addict) and thus I am here... At a bad time. [04:49:08] what was Kinkpedia, Legroom#2748? [04:49:24] How many words do you think? [04:49:39] I recently stumbled on Leatherpedia which presents itself as wiki? but it's not a fucking wiki! editors must fuck w/ HTML lol [04:49:49] oh yeah, I forgot, RLV is long gone [04:50:11] I can show you my wiki if you want [04:50:53] Also, I have a few free/open soruce scripts and a theme + templates that are under GNU public if you want to use them [04:51:01] it simply would be what in its name - a strictly encyclopedic take on kinks, sexual culture, etc [04:51:16] No clue. A rapidly growing amount we were hoping. [04:51:37] I grow at around 100k words a month, assuming enough writers [04:51:39] ofc following ToU, content policy, etc [04:52:36] [1/2] My MediaWiki scripts: https://github.com/Eytirth/MediaWikiTools [04:52:36] [2/2] My theme "Aethis": https://github.com/Eytirth/Aethis-MediaWiki-Theme [04:53:08] I'll gave a nosey, thanks. [04:53:41] It certainly is difficult to reconcile the mistakes made in the wider wikiverse. Miraheze, just like WMF, are caught in a limbo between decentralized autonomy and organizational oversight. It makes it very difficult to participate or create effective policy. [04:53:47] @Gravely Raldor If you wanted basic templates made altered from my Aethis templates, you can just ask, but they will be under GNU [04:54:18] Even though these projects have been kept alive for so long, from an organizational standpoint, there's not much foundation [04:54:28] The Aethis theme is under the GPU Public so you can use it if you want @Gravely Raldor [04:54:29] Wikimedian ideology strongly prevails at Miraheze [04:54:31] the thing that keeps WMF alive is a mission toward freedom of information [04:54:40] Miraheze doesn't have such foundation though [04:54:44] the foundation is maintaining a service [04:54:48] but on Miraheze, there isn't a big struggle of power between local wikis and global operatives as there is on Wikimedia [04:55:01] where local wikis feel threatened around global operatives [04:55:04] Eytirth, not to sound mean but the convo break is a little jarring [04:55:18] I'd disvuss general MW in offtopic [04:55:19] I suppose the biggest thing is MIraheze doesn't have anything bigger than itself [04:55:24] wait [04:55:30] there is no people interaction, nor global interaction [04:55:31] i just got the tweets at like midnight [04:55:35] it is only a service and a platform [04:55:43] If miraheze were a food, would it be... foie gratis? <:EpicFaceMH:912930767972225095> 🤣 🙃 [04:55:44] in a short answer: why is the wikifarm going down? what's happening? [04:56:00] It's not [04:56:11] then what the hell was the twitter post about? [04:56:12] it's not going down [04:56:26] not in foreseeable future [04:56:58] Volunteers are finding discord with the organization and its values. Miraheze is shifting the relationship between the community and the organization. There's no telling exactly what it will look like, but it will be changing. That doesn't mean disappearing. [04:56:59] . [04:57:09] be specific what happened [04:57:19] [1/2] it's very turbulent times and we have to see how things will progress from now own [04:57:19] [2/2] it's just an advice to make backups [04:57:27] Agent, re: WMF ideology living on on Miraheze, it does, to a point, yes. :P [04:57:28] you're still being inspecific [04:57:39] why is it turbulent, why are people leaving [04:57:44] drama [04:57:47] lol [04:57:49] over what [04:57:50] where [04:57:58] We are very influenced by Wikimedia ideology, no doubt about that [04:58:01] Miraheze also has a higher percentage of libertarian and conservative leaning users than the wikipedia wikis, I suspect :P [04:58:05] We don't have staff, we have Stewards and SRE [04:58:24] and we have Global sysops, Global rollbackers, our main wiki is called "Meta", and so forth [04:58:24] oh yes, organizationally and structurally, we're similar [04:58:49] I just mean some of the conventions are different, as are the political leanings of its users [04:58:58] don't be coy and do a bunch of ":p teehee" shit. i spent a year on my work and hate to see it and the works of many others just vannish [04:59:07] i.e., we're not a bleeding red democratic socialist bastion :P [04:59:16] yeah, I'm glad some things are different here [04:59:23] heh [04:59:28] There were several events. Private discussions between technical volunteers were leaked some weeks ago. Trust and Safety policies are not believed to be consistently effective and enforced. Stewards and users have developed feelings that the organization is too unstable and overreaching, and that global functionaries (GS and Stewards) are also overreaching [04:59:38] For example, as I was saying above, there isn't a wide sense of hostility towards Stewards in general as there sometimes is on WMF [04:59:40] [1/2] a guy who got away from being rightfully banned for years finally got banned but managed to get banned his nemesis, a big volunteer who brought a lot of good things in recent couple of years [04:59:40] [2/2] it was unfair and the other prominent volunteers lost their faith in platform [04:59:40] there's more, but frankly I withdrew months ago [04:59:41] especially commonswiki [04:59:46] * dmehus waits for paladox to object to that comment :P [05:00:09] I withdrew early because I realized I already couldn't work with the community and organization as they demanded [05:00:10] well that sucks, but i suppose it's at least nothing to worry about on my end [05:00:13] [1/3] TL;DR: [05:00:13] [2/3] Decisions were made by Trust&Safety to ban a particular volunteer due to conflicts with another community member (who is now also globally banned for behavioral issues.) Other volunteers have resigned, following this event. [05:00:13] [3/3] Miraheze is still funded and operational, and will not be vanishing overnight. [05:00:22] thank fuck tbh [05:00:25] I was encountering more conflicts than collaboration with my presence [05:00:27] the twitter post had me for a loop [05:00:31] Eh, gives me time to think [05:00:45] GS/Stewards overreaching where, on WMF or Miraheze? [05:00:46] i don't intend to join your staff anytime soon, but please, be specific with these scenarios hereon lol [05:00:48] Legroom#2748, that's a fair comment yes [05:00:56] On Miraheze, we were always under reaching if anything [05:01:15] Yet another cultural issue with Miraheze. I don't know if that'll ever happen tbh [05:01:22] It's one of the reasons I left [05:01:37] Transparency is limited and in short supply [05:01:42] Nobody is looking toward innovation [05:01:45] it's not an issue just with Miraheze [05:01:51] it's always staunchly status quo [05:01:58] the fucking planet consists of "uwu teehee" and "c'mon it's so obvious" assholes [05:02:01] that's why I mention the entire wikiverse [05:02:10] if I'm being honest, Stewards were weak when it came to Naleksuh. He could've been globally locked as long-term abuse as far back as November, noting he is wikimedia namespace banned on IRC, fosshost namespace on IRC, testwiki.wiki banned, and arbcom blocked on enwiki [05:02:27] i don't just mean the internet [05:02:29] If an organization can at least decide they want to be the ultimate authority, that's better than the wishy washy limbo bs [05:02:45] Permabanned from wiki.teamfortress.com [05:02:58] Has caused issues all over the Team Fortress 2 community for years [05:03:09] tf2cutcontent#0000, interesting. Didn't know about that wiki. Are you a sysop there? [05:03:13] Nope [05:03:18] ah [05:03:24] ohhhh [05:03:27] dross [05:03:28] heh [05:03:30] I'm also banned from there for unrelated reasons, stemming mostly from staff there not doing their job correctly imo [05:03:37] I do edit on tcrf.net though [05:03:41] On IRC, your Discord username appears, not your nick [05:03:46] I was wondering who was saying all that [05:03:49] yikes [05:04:04] https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/User:Naleksuh [05:04:12] so are they gonna unban the volunteer? or is there other stuff happening? [05:04:51] Please keep in mind that on the other side of the internet connection are unpaid volunteers who are/were donating their time to a project they cared about very much, and attempted to do so in good faith even when they get things wrong. [05:04:57] Oh shit I just noticed someone I know from TF2 is in here [05:05:03] And they spoke to you guys back in March [05:05:06] Agrastios [05:05:11] tf2cutcontent#0000, interesting [05:05:16] what is happening to Miraheze [05:05:36] [05:05:57] Funny seeing agrastios in here discussing Naleksuh's issues in tf2 [05:06:39] https://discord.com/channels/407504499280707585/407537962553966603/1116230177689710653 [05:07:38] TL;DR: Nothing is happening at the moment, some volunteers are departing, if the situation changes we'll let folks know. [05:07:57] Also funny that my discord 4 digit identifier is now "0000" since I had the new username rollout hit and I have the new ID-less username [05:08:13] See, the way SRE seems to be taking charge of social media presence and does most of the corporate publicity, and with the sysadmin toolkit and responsibilities being so expansive within the community, I never did understand why Miraheze couldn't just take the path with the most stability and take corporate control [05:08:38] There would always be a foundation for the service that way, and SRE could receive more scrutiny that way [05:08:57] This is reassuring! [05:09:24] Operations was the original governing board of Miraheze and overtime, small things began to shift over to SRE in general which is how we got left in charge of social media [05:09:34] which has never been super ideal but what else can be done [05:09:46] over time* [05:10:19] Mainly because I was lazy 😦 [05:10:24] There's plenty else that can be done. Miraheze has been so oddly resistant to the corporate model [05:10:43] What is the corporate model, in your view? [05:10:59] Even when, as I've said, Miraheze is not backed by a movement, nor a social cause. It is fundamentally only a service [05:11:22] Is that a bad thing? [05:11:25] and a commodity service [05:11:37] I take it is because it implies there is no real passion and driving force behind it [05:12:10] I don't think it's a bad thing; volunteers definitely have passion [05:12:19] Miraheze Ltd. should have the structure for all the offices associated with a nonprofit business. Publicity, technical, legal, T&S, a true and proper board, etc. [05:12:27] This is a big reason for me wanting to use Miraheze. [05:12:31] Bureaucracy is not necesssarily bad [05:12:43] Too many offices and too little people [05:12:53] There would be people if there were a place for them [05:13:02] Create a village and the people will come [05:13:15] but it doesn't help to inspire 'connection' to the end users. It's a service. Better than Fandom, yes, but it doesn't have a rabid user base like, say, Reddit [05:13:18] Like Doug says, volunteers have passion [05:13:28] It's been almost 8 years, everyone gave up :P [05:13:36] Because there is no place for them [05:13:37] and that's fair [05:13:49] in what world does CES belong with Engineers? [05:13:55] there's burnout among a small number of volunteers, burnout from the work, burnout from the drama, etc. [05:13:57] You were forced into a foreign space [05:14:08] I overexpanded CES reach by a long shot [05:14:09] us, folks on autistic spectrum, are very passionate about wikis [05:14:21] I see this a lot online. My tuppence is always to keep staff small and hands off with community infighting and keep to upholding rules. It works in my experience but I don't know your situation intimately. [05:14:22] Wait, other people are on the spectrum here? [05:14:34] CES was supposed to be SRE's rep before the community, I turned it into the general PR rep [05:14:39] I staunchly disagree that you overexpanded. I would have wished that you got the chance to do more and establish an office with more members [05:14:41] Preach. [05:14:43] imho, Agent was more needed as an MWE anyway [05:14:59] arguably MacFan4000 has been more of the PR rep on social media ;) [05:15:02] One reason we resisted the corporate model is that it went so wrong with Orain... the other reason is the people left behind after that were all techies. [05:15:14] you were more of the on-wiki community facilitator :) [05:15:22] When you have a single source of authority, this is what happens [05:15:31] Orain had a great amount of technical contributors [05:15:37] When you break down officers and implement a strong consitution, you can avoid it [05:15:41] It's a true shame people like addshore never joined Miraheze [05:15:41] fabled_druid#0000, true [05:16:07] I live by the phrase "absolute power corrupts absolutely" [05:16:09] wikis help to channel or hyperfixations quite neatly [05:16:37] * dmehus is thankful he granted Agent Isai `autopatrolled` one day :) [05:16:44] So can someone point me to the power vacuum so my personal idealogy can take root? I'll say nice things on the way up to the top. [05:16:49] and I haven't seen wikis to be used for world building untill I joined Miraheze, which is very neat too [05:16:52] dmehus: I believe it was curse :P [05:16:59] Agent LOL [05:17:38] Maybe it is time for me to move out and self host all my wikis [05:17:38] Just to say it, with such a small MediaWiki team remaining a 1.40 upgrade will certainly not happen in a timely manner if at all [05:17:56] it’s a huge undertaking for just two people [05:18:01] you mean different hosting? I'm looking forward for WikiForge, the teased to roll out a free hostong model [05:18:01] Big places to check for people who want to help out are [[Contributing]] for general things and [[Miraheze Vacancies]] for our big technical challenges. [05:18:01] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Contributing https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Miraheze_Vacancies [05:18:02] [1/2] [05:18:02] [2/2] [05:18:30] MacFan4000, understandable. Also understandable if you decided to shelve it indefinitely [05:19:02] actually, the only user group I've ever had revoked was `autopatrolled`, which RhinosF1 revoked (and then re-added a few weeks later) :P [05:19:33] I would hope it doesn't get shelved [05:19:43] I spent hours testing like 200+ extensions [05:19:56] btw at this point I don't feel like finishing my easily importable for new wikis PI templates over dev wikis [05:20:02] No, I mean the newly opened positions here in Miraheze. I'm going to encyclopaedia dramatically take over to feed my god complex (I jest, just glad it's not over for Miraheze.) [05:20:07] that's another thing, in any new farm, we need to limit the number of extensions we offer [05:20:30] SocialProfile should be a banned extension...it's an abomination ;) [05:20:43] Same with FlaggedRevs [05:20:54] just leave the avatar feature of SP lol [05:21:07] it's the only reason I enabled it on my wikis [05:21:30] just create a nice template and add it to your user page :) [05:21:31] But how will folks know which users are mutual foes? 🙃 [05:21:46] in order words, a template version of SocialProfile :) [05:21:55] dmehus - well tru [05:21:56] NotAracham#0009, heh oh yes [05:22:03] Isn't SocialProfile based off Wikia's original social profile system/code from like 2007-2009? [05:22:12] it's incredible that it's held up so well to this day [05:22:12] I think yeah [05:22:14] [1/2] I'm not really sure how to best point out people who want to help out from a community perspective. All I've really got an eye on is the tech side of things. I know one of the big things we wanted to do was improve community outreach and make sure people using our wikis are aware of Miraheze as a platform. But the people side of things has always been a big nebeleous problem that [05:22:14] [2/2] I don't thing anyone really has a clear idea how to approach. [05:22:18] Agent, probbably, it's so dated [05:22:35] OOJSPlus has been a technical nightmare lately too, for completely different reasons. [05:22:54] Raidarr had big plans for community engagement and outreach [05:23:00] maybe poke him for some ideas [05:23:03] what's 00JSPLus, @Void? [05:23:13] I know he jot them down on stewardswiki or something [05:23:36] That I don't understand I got it tested and working, some SQL stuff in about 2 minutes myself. Not sure why it has been such an issue for you. [05:24:37] @Legroom put your templates on github/gitlab [05:24:37] (not calling you out, it isn't your fault, I just don't know what went wrong there) [05:25:05] Well, for me personally, I haven't had the time to look at it close enough. Too many things going on, too much to do, prioritizing hard. [05:25:26] I plan to shelf all my templates and the like on GitHub so others cna use them [05:25:45] I'm lazy, and I barely started it because I don't have much free time now, it just hanging there w/ PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH hatnote lol [05:26:15] Well, I need to think of theming ideas for my new look or should I stick with a "WikiVoyage" look? [07:09:11] To be fair Miraheze is doing a better job than Elon. [07:12:48] I am in a good mood for open-sorucing/making freely usable my old wiki assets [07:18:16] Is there any wiki theme styles/colors you think are in short supply? I do not see too many open CSS stylesheets for mediawiki [07:18:50] I mean, there is my dark one for Cosmos, some black and green one for Vector (it was on Wikipedia I think), but not seen any besides that [07:20:17] It is kinda sad, I would love to see more of such things that are freely usable (other then those on CC- wikis I guess) [07:22:17] There is this one as well: https://biosector01.com/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&usems.. [07:39:24] Same, also pages are super slow [07:39:36] Elongated Muskrat [07:48:10] [1/2] So not just me. [07:48:11] [2/2] I'm guessing stuff that used to be on the Discussion Board (which's been disabled sometime last year, I think) won't end up in any XML dumps? 🤔 [08:39:19] Also, finished Phase One of my banner adding to fit my new theme [09:36:37] https://github.com/TF2CutContent/TCRFDark here's one I made for TCRF.net although it may be missing some admin page styling since I made it as a normal user with no admin access, but with help from some admins who provided css class's to me to fix [09:37:07] I even got some nice SVG replacements for the translation progress 2x2 square icons [09:39:49] I suppose vector 2022 isnt compatible with mobilefrontend? [09:40:07] It is. [09:40:10] Quite well actually. [09:40:26] They're different skins. MobileFrontend is Skin:Minerva, right? [09:40:28] Is mobile frontend the thing what makes the fancy mobile viewing on MH wikis? [09:40:46] I've been wanting to fix up tcrf for mobile viewing but that stuff looks too hard [09:40:52] Vector2022 is responsive to small screens. [09:42:15] I can't see to be able to apply a Mobile.css at all tho [09:42:25] Also I want to fix this annoying issue on mobile where content stretches outside the page bounds [09:43:06] tables are cringe [09:43:08] And also do a position:sticky on the sidebar too so it follows you as you scroll, but when I tried that on Firefox it shoved the sidebar down to the bottom of the page and stuck it there 😦 [09:43:32] Yeah we use tables a lot there lol [09:43:44] Most everything deep down is a table at some level [09:43:59] I prefer
/div [09:44:28] We don't normally use HTML tags too much other than and and maybe a /b in a todo [09:44:47] I raise you one, it seems to work when using mobile view but not on a mobile [09:45:02] [1/5] Like [09:45:02] [2/5] ```{{todo|1=/b [09:45:02] [3/5] * [link.com link] [09:45:02] [4/5] }} [09:45:03] [5/5] ``` [09:45:32] And we only do that when we need to link to something with an "=" in the URL because if we don't do the "1=" bit and insert a url with a =, it frigs the todo up [09:46:57] This is a favorite MediaWiki:common.css addition of mine for table columns btw: [09:47:18] [09:48:07] Yes. [09:48:51] Kind of, Minrerva is the default skin that works with MFE, but MFE can be used with any skin. [09:50:12] Do you have any why mobile.css doesnt apply for me then? [09:50:29] i also added the optionnal string in mobile.js to n avail [09:50:47] here is the link to my wiki btw https://stardustlabs.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_page [09:52:15] [1/2] Minerva was made for MobileFrontend, both initially used on Wikimedia [09:52:16] [2/2] but I'd suggest to use simply mobile responsive skins: Vector 2022, Timeless, Cosmos, some other less popular [09:52:27] Not sure, it might just use Vector-2022.css [09:52:31] Vector 2022 ehhhhhh [09:52:44] I'll have to look into that, see if it's compatible with the MediaWiki ver tcrf is running [09:53:20] Cause tcrf is on MW 1.34.0 [09:53:22] as for tables - it's always happens if there's too much stuff inside, tables are never mobile friendly [09:54:11] There's gotta be a way to make the images in a table responsive and make the table resize itself to fit the screen <:thunk:682745410695200770> [09:54:23] however - if your tables don't get a scrollbar that's weird [09:54:33] Vector-2022 is likely not comparable because it is bundled with 1.38 iirc. [09:54:33] I jumped from tables to divs as soon as I could to try make my wiki better on mobile [09:54:45] Crapbaskets. [09:54:55] because on my wiki scrollbars will appear shortly after showing you abomination of formatting first [09:55:02] (Also 1.34 is end of life you should upgrade anyway) [09:55:07] Idk if tcrf plans to update quite yet either, which is another issue [09:55:07] I dislike Vector-2022's looks [09:55:23] assign images via css? [09:55:24] They may intend on keeping it in spite of EOL [09:55:39] Well, when it came to upgrading, I just dumped my old mediawiki 1.35 and installed again 1.39 [09:55:50] That screams security vulnerability. [09:56:21] So I should disable mobile frontend if I have vector 2022? [09:56:21] We already dealt with that fun security vuln where IP editors could bypass edit locks and edit stuff they shouldn't have been able to [09:56:40] That’s your choice. [09:56:42] Someone did it to my wiki and edited common.css to add a display:none; to the body class to hide the entire page on my wiki [09:56:54] Timeless skin, scrolling isn't visible but possible [09:57:30] Im asking that cause neither the changes in vector.css or mobile.css are applying on mobile [09:58:33] Mobile.css is for MobileFrontend extension, last I've heard they fixed it and it should work [09:58:55] Vector.css ofc won't work in mobile mode of MFE [09:59:09] Vector.css doesn’t target vector 2002 [09:59:17] That’s vector-2022.css [09:59:19] not really [09:59:29] Vector 2022 takes from both [10:00:14] but tbh - I don't like V2022 too lol [10:00:31] Interesting [10:00:34] That’s a bit silly [10:03:33] Ima just make a support post [10:51:36] do image caches have timer on them? [10:51:57] it seems like images don't instantly refresh when I uploaded new version of them [11:08:29] I just dislike the look of Vector-2022 [11:10:52] V2022 is just piece of crap, and waste of sand [11:11:08] Def less fucked up than vector 2010 but yeah any 2020 skin are basically half of your screen is useless in case youre on mobile [11:11:50] My opinion on 2022 is not objective consedering i spent 3 weeks making changes to switch to that [11:12:15] Rn im fighting with mobile view tho [12:42:35] I spent all damm night adding banners by hand to 418 pages, and doing it by hand, with the banners having to be deleted off DevintArt or ArtStation where I stored them. (and many I had to generate new due to loosing some or not having some in the first place) [12:43:15] I am glad it is done, but I hope my wiki servies my next sleep, as I am overdue by over 17 hours of slee[ [12:44:40] I just think Vector-2022 is ugly, even the old vector is less ugly to me [12:48:52] Well, @Hispano76 pretty much for some reason I decided to give my wiki a face lift and use some nice banners as a way of adding art info a wiki pages [13:01:10] that's good 👍 [13:08:11] How should I color/lay out my main page? [13:13:23] Yes,that's what the copyright states in source code [13:48:32] Example of coloring and layout on my wiki [13:50:35] Very long [13:50:42] Jesus how friggin long is your phone? How does it fit in your pocket? [13:51:14] (Jk I know it's that one button that scrolls the photo down to continue it) [13:52:03] IO was thinking maybe I can use "Template Off-White" "Vector Blue" and "Namebox Grey" to color my main page [13:52:36] My wiki has offwhite templates with darker grey boxes for inportant names, and maybe the blue from the vector outlines [13:52:55] How about b-hole brown, Donald Trump's face orange, and non dairy creamer white [13:55:27] No. [13:56:14] How abouuuuuut....dark blue and gold [13:59:03] [1/2] I would suggest this tool if you want to color your wiki [13:59:04] [2/2] https://coolors.co/contrast-checker/112a46-acc8e5 [13:59:20] Oooh [13:59:27] Bookmarked that beauty [13:59:50] Ditto. [14:21:51] Is this donation from a bank? [14:26:48] how to give colour? [14:28:30] depending on theme you use, some themes have easy CSS customization that you only need a single line or so [14:29:35] Otherwise you have to familiar with Devtools and pick the background, then change color of it [14:31:49] oh ok [14:31:50] thanks! [14:54:27] Holy shit someone donated a thousand pounds? [15:13:10] LOL [15:13:41] My dad had an iPhone 4s [16:14:50] @Owen [16:16:28] God damn, Owen's the man [16:16:54] Wish I had disposable income so I could donate that much [16:16:55] @tf2cutcontent Owen knows where the money comes from [16:16:59] He didn't donate it [16:17:00] Oh [16:17:06] He's in charge of our accounts [16:17:08] <:thunk:682745410695200770> [17:12:33] It was GoFundMe payments [17:19:11] Ohhh, that makes so much more sense. [17:20:15] I can't imagine someone just having a thousand pounds sitting around (unless they're rich or something) [17:21:13] I can, however, imagine someone making a rash financial decision during a moment of high emotion. [17:21:20] Glad to hear that's not the case. [17:32:07] Friends, do you know who is the owner of this telegram group? [17:33:08] I think CA mentioned it was his [17:34:12] If it's his, I think we can set up an active telegram group. [17:34:41] So it will be something like Miraheze from one place 😄 [17:35:53] @CosmicAlpha Can we open a Miraheze Telegram group? [17:36:19] It is mine, I'll look later [17:36:54] After that, hmm okay. [17:38:42] I created it last year [17:39:30] <_AR1A#9993> Yo how do I make it so MSupload works with ogg and mp3 formats [17:53:13] fellas, anyone having experience w/ going after someone copying wiki's content w/o crediting the wiki? [17:53:39] because I think this is what just happened w/ mine [17:56:55] wouldnt that fall under copy right? I think you have the right to tell them to stop and/or request it to shut down [17:57:48] [1/2] some youtuber made a video and by quick skip I 100% can tell they used article from my wiki (and didn't even finished it fully) [17:57:48] [2/2] I'll have to watch the video entirely ofc, to see if they credited in the end [17:59:41] ohhh [17:59:47] yeah for youtube vids, not much you can do [17:59:48] oh, I dont know how youtube would responed but you can try commenting on the video or emailing them first before contacting youtube [18:00:00] people are gonna source stuff from wikis and not credit, happens all the bloody time [18:00:19] definitely try contacting the video maker to see if it was a mistake [18:00:33] I would first make sure these file extensions are enabled for upload more generally. You can get to there via Manage Additional Settings >> Media >> File Extensions [18:00:35] but be prepared for either being ignored by the creator or in rare cases, sworn at [18:02:20] yeah, if they fucked up I'll comment first [18:02:29] if they'll ignore - idk ... [18:03:33] just [18:03:41] [1/2] commone [18:03:42] [2/2] I didn't spend days of compiling everything I discovered in the course of 4 years into 36 reference/sources links to be stripped down off credits so easily [18:06:36] <_AR1A#9993, replying to NotAracham#0009> Done! However i've run into another problem. [18:06:44] <_AR1A#9993> I got this message for all .ogg files [18:06:48] <_AR1A#9993> and .png files [18:06:51] DMCA them [18:06:52] MacFan4000: any idea how my mh commons usergroups got messed up? My userright logs show I should be crat and such but I dont actually have those rights [18:07:43] Do you get a similar error with direct upload instead of MSUpload? The standard upload interface might give a more verbose error [18:07:54] ngl this week is testing my nerves [18:08:31] Something like "under CC BY SA, you are required to credit the creator" [18:08:50] <_AR1A#9993, replying to NotAracham#0009> Yeah [18:08:55] yeah .. [18:09:55] Zppix: https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=rights&user=&page=User%3AZppix%40commonswiki&wpdate=&tagfilter=&subtype=&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist [18:10:09] an inactivity policy was adopted [18:10:19] (per community vote) [18:11:09] technically a couple months early, but now would indeed be valid [18:12:22] I dont understand how something like that can happen without any form of notice beforehans [18:14:17] Hey Zppix [18:14:20] Hi [18:14:38] Zppix: why aren't you in my channel [18:14:46] What channel [18:15:02] Invited [19:21:34] Quick question: If i make my miraheze go public, will it slowly appear on search results on google? [19:22:29] Eventually, yes [19:25:33] Slowly being the key word [20:00:20] upd: youtube comment didn't get tru, seems like moderation, so I tried on fb and they added link ij description [20:00:26] such a relief [20:00:40] I got way upset tho .... [20:03:46] Another way to look at it, you made a cool and useful resource that someone was excited enough about to use, though without proper attribution [20:05:51] The last part is bad, but the first part is a good sign of success [21:26:07] @Void can you please remove mine and Agent's rights on cvtwiki and staffwiki, Agent from stewardswiki, and BrandonWM from Global Interwiki Administrators per resignations if you have any time? [21:37:26] lots of image dump requests [21:47:26] I handled a few (via phabricator and PMs) [21:49:56] staffwiki rights done [21:58:28] Thanks [22:44:28] @CosmicAlpha are you just wanting to just delete all your userspace subpages [22:44:53] lol yes I was getting tired of tagging them all [22:45:03] Ill do it here in a bit [22:54:07] Thanks! [23:02:42] @zppix mind taking care of mine as well [23:02:48] only the ones that are tagged though [23:11:45] Later im at work [23:11:54] We need a better way to delete subpages [23:13:38] thanks [23:21:40] You dont have any tagged [23:21:45] oh? [23:21:46] looking [23:22:00] oh never mind they're gone [23:22:01] thanks [23:54:47] Quick question. Small bother, but is there a way to remove the massive image that shows up when you link your wiki anywhere? For example: https://thegye.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page [23:55:00] I dont want the big, massive logo, just the text [23:55:27] I've seen it before on other wikis where there isn't one and I was curious as to if there was a specific way or setting that generates said image.