[01:18:07] Is there a way to make sorting tables better? Since when 1.0.0 is superior to 1.0.2 [01:18:45] its even random sometimes, rn I'm seeing both 1.0.2 anbd 1.0.1 over 1.0.0 [01:22:41] The sorting code in MediaWiki has been a bit wonky. For tables, you might be able to get around it by manually specifying a sort key. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Sorting#Specifying_a_sort_key [01:23:32] Interesting, thanks for the link, I will have a look at it tomorrow [02:06:28] Hello!! [02:07:19] Welcome, we've unfortunately had lots of drama lately due to the Trust and Safety ban of a former Steward [02:08:48] I'm curious now. [02:08:54] What happened? [02:09:03] That's an interesting way to greet someone [02:10:57] Raidarr, the former Steward I'm referring to, refused to follow several T&S restrictions laid out to him and was consequently T&S banned; many in the community, including myself, saw this as unfair and there was a lot of discussion in this server about the future of Miraheze, coupled with several resignations [02:14:03] He didn't follow only one of those restrictions. [02:14:17] Which is exactly why it was unfair [02:14:31] Yes. [02:14:53] Very unfair. [02:20:21] Is it possible for me to "adopt" a wiki? [02:20:48] You can follow a procedure outlined in [[Local elections]] in order to gain bureaucrat + sysop rights [02:20:48] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Local_elections [02:20:49]

[02:21:29] space.miraheze.org is kinda inactive and I wanna do stuff with i [02:37:32] [1/2] Update: if you don't set an alternative image but do select the "force alternative image" anyway, it will not have the big page image. [02:37:33] [2/2] https://thegye.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page [02:41:59] Never mind! [02:42:10] I got a friend to give me his wiki [03:01:56] [1/2] hmm maybe a total ban is overboard, however that is cause for instant removal of access from any tools that grants access to PII data. As a formal company, yes that normally would result in dismissal [not eligible for rehire] [03:01:57] [2/2] Owen has to report any violations and explain what steps are taken to prevent repeat [03:02:47] Are image dump requests made through phabricator? [03:04:15] [[SN]] [03:04:15] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/SN [03:04:16]

[03:04:50] They were actually banned for something else not even PII issues [03:08:59] Thanks. [03:10:38] also does this mean that Miraheze gonna die soon? >_> [03:11:21] Probably not, but one former user has said that Miraheze only has 6 months left to live [03:12:38] [1/2] That's [03:12:38] [2/2] Not good [03:14:34] [1/3] That's [03:14:35] [2/3] Definitely [03:14:35] [3/3] Not good [03:16:52] and if I said I'm the Queen of England, does that make it true? [03:16:52] [1/3] there's 2 pieces of the puzzle [03:16:52] [2/3] - finances which are good for now [03:16:53] [3/3] - SRE/Infrastructure team which is getting depleted. This is dangerous. [03:17:32] Don't forget the community aspect (e.g. CVT), which is also severely understaffed [03:18:08] community won't matter if you don't have the expertise to keep the servers up [03:21:19] [1/2] the tweet from last night was rather poor and only caused people to start making emergency plans. making emergency plans or preparing for an emergency is fine [03:21:19] [2/2] proper processes and protocols need to be adopted for Miraheze to survive this. know one person who is thinking to jump in if this gets worse... [03:21:46] [1/2] That's the problem here [03:21:47] [2/2] Will there be enough people to run the service itself? [03:22:20] one thing to do immediately is to go review the current team's skills. Don't run software the team is not familiar with. [03:22:57] I don't have a crystal ball, and don't know what Miraheze plans, but the MW upgrade may not happen [03:23:07] Probably not tbh [03:23:15] Yeah, 'cause it's taking forever for 1.40 to come out [03:23:17] well CosmicAlpha is gone [03:23:21] WikiTide will probably upgrade on time though [03:23:40] 1.40 and 1.40.1 probably will have bugs so wait for 1.40.2 [03:23:55] What's wikitide [03:24:14] The free version of WikiForge [03:24:25] That's out already? [03:24:32] Yep, released today. [03:24:57] Huh [03:27:05] There are many stuffs relied on his extensions so even though he moved to WikiForge, he still have to maintain them🤣 [03:29:05] I am unsure... [03:32:09] Unless there is no one use that on WikiForge, it doesn't look like get abandoned anytime soon [03:32:27] I always handled the upgrades myself when I was in SRE also, then it was going to be Agent I believe who also left, so the 1.40 upgrade on Miraheze has been said by a member of the MediaWiki team to basically be on hold indefinitely as it is difficult for the remaining MediaWiki team to do it themselves... Hey at least 1.39 is LTS. [03:33:21] CosmicAlpha is likely to maintain going forward for wikitide and wikiforge, what happens for miraheze idk [03:36:01] Where is wikitide [03:37:33] meta.wikitide.com [05:54:03] Well, at least it's possible to make a Special:DataDump [07:00:42] I would recommend users have plans for both a controlled and uncontrolled shutdown of Miraheze [07:01:11] Uncontrolled being things die at some point and there's no SRE / SRE for a while [07:01:25] Controlled being you get given a date to leave by [07:02:07] I hope the second is most likely [07:02:23] Could be a combination [07:02:49] with current and upcoming resignations, all teams will be impacted [07:03:17] @agentisa it's impossible to say exactly what will happen [07:03:43] But I think assuming we'll be online for in 6 months time is a not a safe assumption [07:03:46] Today [07:03:54] I agree [07:03:56] It isn't exactly. [07:04:56] better alternatives like WikiTide are thankfully available [07:05:01] Yes [07:05:18] WikiTide / WikiForge would be my recommended option [07:21:30] I guess I'll back up and ask to delete my second wiki, which is failed migration off FANDOM, first [08:05:49] I am not looking forward to yet another migration. [08:08:47] Can someone make a blog post airing all of the current dirty laundry? Because I am totally lost. [08:09:16] tl;dr, new wiki farm same staff mostly as MH, so MH under a different name. [08:10:16] Without repeating the same mistakes and learning from them [08:10:44] ffs guys if y'all's plan was to do that I should have just kept ownership of all of the Miraheze assets /s [08:11:58] and making new mistakes? 🙂 [08:12:25] Everyone makes mistakes, so that is unavoidable probably. There is always room to learn. [08:12:42] I don't mean that in a bad way. I'm basically quoting Larry Wall about Perl 6/Raku. [08:15:16] Ah [08:23:59] Thank you very much information 🙂 [08:28:43] @Stewards Hello stewards, could you please change the https://vikibrawl.miraheze.org/ wiki address to https://heyturkiye.miraheze.org/? I use the wiki as a personal wiki now. (Sorry ping) [08:29:38] This has to be SRE [08:29:39] Stewards don't handle that [08:29:48] Who are unlikely to be doing much for the next few days [08:30:29] fix [08:30:34] @RhinosF1 [08:32:51] i need help on doing infobox and userbox templates on my wiki [08:33:55] Please create a task [08:34:14] Check the pinned messages then create a #support thread [08:34:22] I used to go to Phabricator but now unfortunately I am not available. [08:34:35] sorry RhinosF1 [08:34:42] Discord is not a task tracking system [08:34:49] No phab task = unlikely to be done [08:35:22] Hmm, okey. [08:35:46] I'll go to the Phabricator then. [08:35:58] [[phab:N]] [08:35:58] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/phab:N [08:36:03]

[08:37:06] Already did [09:16:31] Ah, I see what happened. All of the most important on-topic information has been hidden in #offtopic . [09:17:49] Yep... [09:32:22] That is the Boards plan, but we're wearing @CosmicAlpha to approve the minutes of the last meeting since Thursday [09:34:46] The major problem is a lot of people creating hysteria not knowing the full information and those that do know it, are adding to it by sharing incorrect information [09:35:13] Further, it's interesting one of those people has created a competitor and is leading the calls to close down Miraheze - to their own benefit. [09:35:49] I will be resigning from the board tonight or tomorrow but I'll approve the minutes. [09:36:06] Especially when they hold a responsibility to ensure the stability of the platform [09:36:52] That might be a good idea as your failing your responsibility as a Director currently, if you have no intention of bringing stability [09:37:18] Goodbye [10:02:48] What do you think if your service is abused to disclose personal privacy? [10:05:58] I will be sharing the minutes shortly - but CA did say a soft approach should be taken against people who misuse personal information [10:12:37] I'm requesting a GDPR so this goodbye from me permanently everyone [10:13:44] Because Owen apparently likes pushing more people out by making things sound or portray them like they aren't. [10:14:45] Because I defended and was against Raidarr's ban before the board, apparently I think there should be a soft approach for PII misuse even though the ban had nothing to do with PII misuse [10:16:01] "TH stated he disagreed with mandatory Data Protection training for all people with access to personal information stating this would make it harder for volunteers to join" there is also this line where you disagree we should train people to effectively handle personal information. [10:16:28] That doesn't even say why [10:17:29] I disagreed because it would be pointless to go through the process of setting all that up if a wind down was done. [10:17:59] You didn't say that and you agreed to that wording [10:20:58] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Board/Policies/20230607-Minutes minutes from the meeting for everyone to review around the whole discussion on Wednesday [10:20:59] And because I didn't know it was required, that part was on me. But the other reason I didn't like it as it would be harder to find volunteers in my opinion in a time when MH was really struggling. If what you said above was true, then why would I have still cared about anything. I sorely misjusged you as someone I formerly trusted Owen. [10:21:37] hey, can we get an #announcements or something for this situation? a lot of users (including myself) are really worried, and some official notice would be nice. even if its "hey, stuff is hitting the fan rn, so prepare for the wrose just in case" [10:21:55] There's more erm pressing matters I believe right now, there's only 1 semi-active Steward atm. Since iirc the other one is on a break at the moment...and with no further viable candidates atm, yikes. [10:22:05] I can try to explain [10:23:32] From what I've seen this whole thing seems to stem from a central thing around Raidarr getting banned from Trust and Safety. Which has erupted into...this over the past few days(?) [10:24:15] I'm an outsider with this though, so that's all I really know up to this point. [10:25:02] regardless, no matter what the cause of it is, having some sort of communication with miraheze's users is important. doesnt have to say why, just mention that something bad is happening and to prepare. worse case, people will be very upset if their wikis suddenly disappear with zero warning... [10:25:22] Yeah I agree [10:25:25] communication should be number one priority [10:25:50] so yeah, if any miraheze admin has the ability to make a ping announcement, please do [10:28:15] https://discord.com/channels/407504499280707585/407504500136607745/1116233264357711952 is still correct at this moment in time 🙂 [10:38:42] should probably be pinged. and from what ive seen in this channel, "not going away for the time being" doesnt seem very certain? but of course, i am not knowledgeable in this scenario. i am simply reading what other users are saying. maybe its just rumors. [10:39:25] my point, is ive seen scenarios like this, where due to similar controversy, everything goes \poof\ with no warning [10:39:41] even if it wasnt planning on going poof [10:40:21] only reason i know this happened is because someone else told me stuff is happening [10:43:28] @Owen requested GDPR please action [10:48:37] The wikis won't go poof without due notice - we would commit to a minimum of a period of a few months where the service would remain up - regardless of events as they occur. Though, we are seeking all avenues to even prevent that being an option on the table. Should that change, ample notice would be given - but at this moment in time, this is not on the table as an outcome. [10:50:27] I'm glad to hear that [10:51:13] I just hope you understand my (and other users') worry, and request for more public communication [10:52:33] No, absolutely I understand it. We wish information came out in a more controlled manner - our intention was to share the minutes of the meeting and then formulate a response, but unfortunately immediately after the meeting ended, it seems information was shared that led to a response while the release of that information was delayed because of following due process. [11:34:36] I have to say, Meta main page is really broken on legacy Vector [12:40:29] @Owen when did <@841439782457704488> resign as director [12:42:54] Around 2 hour ago [12:43:17] Thanks [14:18:05] [1/3] > Rightio, i've been following all the current events (stretching back to a few months ago and thought it best just not to comment but now it's just ridicoulous). And i've been shocked and saddaned by the actions of some of the member of the team. Spreading misinformation, attacking Owen for doing the responsible thing. They've started up a new wiki website and started advertisi [14:18:05] [2/3] ng it and then trying to attack miraheze. I've been a SRE member since 2018 (with one period where i resigned but rejoined shortly after). They got angry because they were being held accountable and then decided to try to burn the place to the ground to setup their own place. This whole criticism of Owen just doesn't work. He's been competent and has worked to try and get more o [14:18:06] [3/3] f the community involved. It's laughable to suggest Owen wants power. He has to do this in his free time and it's not like he's getting paid to run Miraheze. It's not like T&S is some fun thing to do. Also, some of those who have decided to try and blow everything up have shown incompetence and lack of due dilligience. Decided to throw the community under the bus. [14:19:47] are quoting or? [14:20:19] that's my statement [14:23:57] Is this real? [14:24:27] is what real [14:24:30] it's my statement [14:25:02] I mean is this the actual "record" of what inside SRE at that moment? [14:25:04] T&S if it's not a fun place then i wouldn't go there lol [14:25:26] By the way, is this really real? Can you explain the case more deeply? [14:25:27] It's a statement of my own personal view [14:25:39] not a statement of miraheze but a personal statement [14:25:56] oh yea, I mean from your view, not from MH [14:26:33] I suspected there's something like Fandom or something fcked up in SRE [14:27:11] really, really long time ago [14:27:13] I'm sick and tired of seeing the misinformation whilst a few run wild burning everything [14:27:31] Watermelon hmm happy 🙂 [14:27:34] Time someone sticked up to them. [14:28:23] if i don't get my way, i'll burn it down! - the few members of the team [14:29:37] watermelon delight [14:29:43] 😋 [14:36:39] [1/2] Also who even propose Global ban Naleksuh? [14:36:40] [2/2] I though we only demote him to normal user [14:37:31] Universal Omega [14:37:37] he offered [14:37:38] dude would remain rude even as normal user [14:37:48] given the history [14:38:02] As Miraheze users, we decided to let Naleksuh go. [14:38:11] Well, I mean demote him to normal user would be enough signal for him to change himself [14:38:44] Global ban is basically no contribution allowed [14:38:52] 💀 [14:38:56] doubtful [14:39:35] If we tell the stewards this can only happen, which is impossible. [14:39:45] ban on official tf2 wiki hasn't changed him, did it? [14:39:54] I'm unfortunately inclined to agree. [14:40:02] [1/2] Agent, since nobody from MH staff has publicly said this "you really need to quit advertising in here and just leave as you so have stated per your resignation". situation does not need to be made worse. [14:40:03] [2/2] yes, I have been blunt for the purpose of pointing out exactly what MH needs to fix. that is way different. [14:40:16] This is no longer possible, the community would have to overturn the global ban [14:40:45] Oh, if he is fully corrupted then Global ban is fair [14:41:13] Prrr skibidi dop dop yes yes-- ohm ohm You are telling the truth [14:41:23] But again that just TF2 Wiki, not the whole MH [14:41:24] I'm still staff \;) [14:41:39] ok and that is conduct unbecoming of staff, no? [14:41:41] That’s not really an excuse for the blatant advertising you’re trying to do. [14:42:02] there's way more than wiki, it's the entire community w/ different assets, he's quite infamous [14:42:17] Bruhhh [14:42:18] Oh, so he is that infamous [14:42:19] -_- [14:42:21]