[00:04:01] noting to everybody: https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Community_noticeboard#Statement_from_the_Board [00:04:35] Wah [00:04:42] holy shit [00:04:46] Wait so is MH done for? [00:04:52] wahhb [00:04:55] Way to fucking go Naleksuh you dumb cunt [00:04:58] Basically yes [00:04:59] I wish I had something more appropriate to say here. [00:05:03] fuck man fandom shit won [00:05:03] @xxezrabxxx Watch your language. [00:05:09] Oh, huh. [00:05:15] Is this the end of Miraheze? [00:05:17] I love how dyno didn't tell me to watch my language [00:05:23] :vomit: [00:05:23] wait what [00:05:24] Let's calm down not. We shouldn't be casting blame here. [00:05:27] Well, shit [00:05:30] feels like a waste that miraheze is shutting down [00:05:36] <[baws]#7595> IS THIS A JOKE [00:05:42] this statement does not explain nearly enough [00:05:48] im not blaming naleksuh but i am fucking blaming fandom [00:05:59] <[baws]#7595> MY ENTIRE WIKI IS ON THERE [00:06:05] <[baws]#7595> I HAD IT FOR 3 YEARS [00:06:07] I HATE FANDOM [00:06:08] fr it just says "we're shutting down lol" like bro give us something [00:06:09] I think that is the appropriate course of action. [00:06:09] fuck fandom and everything it stands for. it fucking destroyed wikis as we know it [00:06:15] ...wow [00:06:15] omg?? [00:06:15] Don't worry, other hosts exist [00:06:18] Why is this hppening [00:06:18] lol fandom sucks [00:06:21] will i have to transfer my miraheze wiki to fandom [00:06:25] So what's the best way to call for a backup? I know Datadump on the side but that doesn't cover images so far and I still don't know how much is transferrable or backed up from that. [00:06:25] Wait what about my wiki? [00:06:25] This really does feel like a betrayal. [00:06:27] Sorry, this isn't the first thing I've seen Naleksuh destroy, as someone who knows them from tf2 [00:06:29] exactly [00:06:38] there are other wiki farms out there [00:06:38] If Miraheze is shutting down, I'm moving to WikiTide [00:06:38] Let's hold on for a moment people. [00:06:40] Will it be deleted? [00:06:40] Self hosting is also a potential for many [00:06:44] who is he and what did he do? [00:06:44] Fandom is not wikis [00:06:49] Backups are available via Special:DataDump on your wiki [00:06:51] wait naleksuh plays tf2 [00:06:52] <[baws]#7595> what should i do about my private wiki [00:06:52] It's volunteer curated content [00:06:53] But that costs money [00:06:55] Will editting still be possible are is Miraheze as a whole done for? [00:06:57] ^ [00:06:58] https://tenor.com/view/olivia-wilde-olivia-olivia-wilde-shaking-head-olivia-wilde-bobbing-head-olivia-wilde-head-gif-26662105 [00:07:01] image dumps are available upon request [00:07:02] <[baws]#7595> i would love a private host [00:07:04] who is Naleksuh [00:07:09] C: wait why is Miraheze shutting down? [00:07:12] any good ones? on par with miraheze? [00:07:13] bruh what the fuck tho [00:07:14] So we need to perform data dumps on the active wikis? [00:07:15] Yes I worked with Naleksuh on this tf2 project called Custom TF2 Weapons [00:07:16] was just about to ask [00:07:19] I recommend for most [00:07:20] why [00:07:20] Eh? What the hell is going on? [00:07:22] wtf is naleksuh up to again [00:07:23] Why?? [00:07:24] I'd like to request images but I don't know the best approach for that [00:07:24] well fuck, miraheze is gone [00:07:26] C: Something about someone being global banned and several mods leaving? [00:07:31] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_Comment/Global_ban_for_Naleksuh [00:07:39] a good alternative is to run a free oracle VM and host mediawiki on debian or ubuntu. They have free VMs you get to use indefinitely as long as there is activity [00:07:40] If Miraheze is in a much better financial state than before why is it shutting down? [00:07:42] Can we not blame Naleksuh? We don't even know why this happened. [00:07:46] I like how the board statement goes 'compared to 2019, we're doing AMAZING. the finances are great, we have the legal stuff, it's all going up. anyways, we're shutting down'. [00:07:55] Several volunteers left in protest of a Trust and Safety decision which means there are not enough volunteers to support the project [00:07:56] hop off [00:07:56] MediaWiki is an easy software to learn and most extensions aren't entirely necessary. There's alternatives and even base MW is very powerful [00:07:56] This is terrible [00:08:03] yeah. that's genuinely dubious... [00:08:07] alt [00:08:08] <[baws]#7595, replying to [baws]#7595> who was responsible for this [00:08:09] i'm willing to pay money for another wiki farm [00:08:15] I've been here forever... [00:08:15] :c time to move to fandom :/ [00:08:18] It’s happening because of a select few who have irreparable damaged miraheze by pushing their fork and trashing miraheze in the process so people would love to their fork. [00:08:20] ffs 10 second slowmode [00:08:21] why is it all cloak and dagger [00:08:25] <[baws]#7595> its a good wikifarm [00:08:30] this is the most active ive ever seen this server [00:08:30] so fucking glad I spent 4 months making a wiki I never even had time to launch [00:08:34] well [00:08:36] We don't have the volunteers to support the infrastructure and current volunteers don't have the motivation to continue working. [00:08:42] what's their fork so i know to stay away from it [00:08:42] I spent 5 years on the wiki man [00:08:42] same here [00:08:43] daw man i spent so much time workin on my wiki thing. wont even make it to 1000 😭 [00:08:43] Yeah how great, I made a wiki and now it's gonna be trashed? [00:08:44] who has a wiki hoster that isnt fandom id like to move asap [00:08:49] I don't like blaming folks for issues when we don't know the full story. [00:08:49] What the actual fuck [00:08:51] @prettyradicaldude Watch your language. [00:08:52] WikiTide [00:08:53] there are other options to migrate to [00:08:56] wikitide [00:08:57] I can't afford to lose 5 years of history. And wiki is a fucking scam [00:08:57] @corykun Watch your language. [00:08:57] but like [00:08:59] Welp [00:09:02] I cant use miraheze for twst card pics anymore <:xsob:912928935577276526> [00:09:04] Darn that sucks to hear [00:09:05] will there be a way to export our wikis to other places? [00:09:07] I just want to know if I can secure my wiki or if it's still good to operate. [00:09:09] C: So uh... What now? [00:09:09] https://tenor.com/view/floptok-queen-slay-gif-26269390 [00:09:12] well, fuck this [00:09:13] okay I know how this is going [00:09:15] this feels a bit like "we've tried nothing and we're all out of options". this is literally the first i'm hearing about this as a passive long-term user, not everyone lives inside the bubble of administrative actions on the regular [00:09:18] Yes, DataDump exists and all wikis can backup their data and images [00:09:19] I need a place for my wiki [00:09:20] [1/4] Upping timing to 10s. [00:09:20] [2/4] To reiterate: [00:09:20] [3/4] * MH is not gone right now and will continue normal operations until end of August [00:09:20] [4/4] * There will be an orderly process to get your data for rehosting elsewhere for that time and beyond (until funding runs out) [00:09:22] [1/2] Very sad news. I’m not saying I had much but I didn’t use or have much of a wiki other than a few pages for a game information about Factorio group I used to admin. But this was the first place I went to when I didn’t want host my own media-Wiki. It’s a tragedy to see this. I was hoping some day I could contribute back when things slow down in my life to give back for a good yea [00:09:22] [2/2] r of their services to my game group. Sad sad day. [00:09:23] any wikifarms that are't fandom i can use? [00:09:23] If it is related to that then isn't the best thing to do to canvas for more volunteers to keep it up? [00:09:24] You will be able to take a backup of your wiki with you so the content is not lost. [00:09:29] @vhs_ why are you posting child predatory content in here [00:09:35] I think the writing's kinda been on the wall since the last debacle [00:09:36] cheers. Is there a tutorial for idiots like me? [00:09:36] We have tried that [00:09:39] it is okay u can send twst card pics to my dms [00:09:41] Dammit why did I ping vhs [00:09:45] why are you @ing me lol [00:09:46] Special:DataDump is pretty intuitive [00:09:50] [1/2] anybody wondering, for other hosting services mediawiki has this [00:09:50] [2/2] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Hosting_services [00:09:53] Friggin discord [00:09:55] ew ew ew ew ewwww [00:09:58] anyone gonna delete this??? [00:09:59] There goes all the TWST and A3 documentation that isn't controlled by fandom... [00:10:07] i fully agree. i passively work on my story's wiki so my friends can be caught up on lore details. i don't want to throw a fit but this genuinely isn't fair to people who are just standing there. why can't something be done? [00:10:13] Plenty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_hosting_services [00:10:14] delete it for what? do you hate women.. [00:10:15] why though [00:10:16] Yes someone plz delete this msg I am replying to for the love of Satan [00:10:17] Can the admins please give a few options for us wiki owners? [00:10:18] <[baws]#7595> I HAVE 3 YEARS OF HISTORY ON THE PLATFORM [00:10:28] why shut it all down, this is just ridiculous [00:10:29] Those are children you sick fuck [00:10:32] https://tenor.com/view/skai-jackson-stan-twitter-stan-twitter-meme-stan-twitter-reaction-walking-gif-23966232 [00:10:34] i was going on to 3 years [00:10:35] Happy to [00:10:36] Well I never once got an @everyone ping or a banner on the site indicating you needed more volunteers [00:10:37] This is straight up embarrassing [00:10:43] FANDOM won 😔 [00:10:44] I wasn't even involved in this program for a year [00:10:47] fuck this shit [00:10:49] i was about to launch it too 😭 [00:10:50] will look into these, thanks. [00:10:52] that wasn’t the sort of canvassing we were going for [00:10:54] God [00:11:00] I have twice volunteered to be a board member and each time it's ignored [00:11:01] Very unfortunate call. [00:11:02] but it's the sort of canvassing you clearly needed if the option was death [00:11:04] I bet mediawiki could be hosted on a free fly.io account if effort is put in [00:11:07] I never even made an account. I always meant to but i was so busy [00:11:13] I will commit to writing up a few guides on next steps, and will be staying on to help with wind-down of services. [00:11:15] seconding this. i don't have the skills to volunteer but surely there are at least ten people who have the skills and willingness to volunteer [00:11:21] ohmygod thank u so much i love you you are literally jesus 🧡 [00:11:25] if you're willing for a challenge, self-host. [00:11:27] Time to go independent hosting [00:11:31] I don't see why this is happening [00:11:34] Is wikitide private like Miraheze? [00:11:38] This is just a shame Miraheeze will be shutting down, & now we’ll lose Great Characters & Loathsome Characters Wiki! 😞😔🥺 [00:11:41] Well if you are existentially threatened by lack of volunteers then you probably should be seeking out people everywhere instead of maybe sending a few people dms or whatever you did [00:11:42] fiddle-fucking-sticks [00:11:45] its fairly simple once you get DNS shit working. [00:11:51] The policies installed by the community requires community functionaries and Miraheze legal representatives to initiate elections. That's part of the issue with not having anymore volunteers [00:11:53] Thank you [00:11:54] and like "we're doing so well, anyway we're shutting down without warning lol" [00:11:54] 2023 has to be the worst year for the internet tibia honest [00:11:55] If not, I am screwed [00:11:57] fiddlestix [00:11:59] <[baws]#7595> tf is wikitide [00:11:59] [1/2] gonna look through this to find an alternative site to put my wiki on [00:12:00] [2/2] if anyone has any other recommendations, ping me and let me know! [00:12:00] I love how dyno never tells me to watch my profanity [00:12:03] I'm sure a lot of the big wikis will be able to migrate [00:12:05] [1/3] To re-iterate here: [00:12:05] [2/3] 1. Miraheze will not disappear overnight. Until October 1, Miraheze will exist. [00:12:06] [3/3] 2. For an XML file (ie. backup), go to Special:DataDump on your wiki. [00:12:06] have you actually talked to a lawyer about this [00:12:12] i literally can't self host i'm on chromeos [00:12:12] There are the options for private wikis yes, but I cannot advise anyone on which host to go to as that'd be a conflict of interest. [00:12:17] maybe [00:12:20] piss fuckign cunt c'mon @Dyno warn me ya goofy prickjob [00:12:24] It’s not because of fandom [00:12:26] Make a list, because I need to move my stuff [00:12:28] anyone have a tldr on what led to this point [00:12:30] then why the hell is this project a thing? [00:12:30] Wait, really??? How? 😯 [00:12:44] hmm man i dont know [00:12:45] why the hell is it being shut down, there's like no other options [00:12:46] there are other wiki hosting options [00:12:49] me neither, trying to get on disability and can't afford it [00:12:50] Migrating a wiki is actually pretty easy, you can import all of the pages [00:12:56] Dude. I was there when the policies were created. I participated in their discussion and drafting. It's community policy, not legal. No volunteers are going to violate consensus. They'll sooner shut down [00:12:57] Like what, Fandom [00:12:58] I mean migrate to a different website entirely. It's relatively easy to export and import mediawiki data [00:12:59] but we are unable to recommend any due to coi [00:12:59] its not like we're discussing the topic of wiki farms right now [00:13:03] You can rent a VPS from Kimsufi, SoYouStart, OVH, and many other providers and manage your own install [00:13:10] How? 😯 [00:13:10] with their inferior level editing shit [00:13:11] Except for images [00:13:14] <[baws]#7595> i dont want to pa [00:13:19] to list a few, Fandom, ShoutWiki, WikiTide are some that i’m aware of [00:13:23] use your own computer and host it [00:13:23] And how can you do that? 😯 [00:13:24] Special:DataDump [00:13:31] Thank you for the clarification. [00:13:34] Lets be honest if you ended up in mirhaze you were banned from fandom [00:13:35] There are various other farms that are free, as BrandonWM clarified above [00:13:36] the board of directors is legally in charge of miraheze. they have a legal responsibility to make sure there are board elections. all i am hearing are ridiculous excuses. you can't just give up because there are no volunteers [00:13:36] Ahhhh [00:13:46] 👆 [00:13:48] No, I just wanted a private thing for my wiki [00:13:48] [[Special:TakeADump]] [00:13:48] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:TakeADump [00:13:50] [00:13:53] <[baws]#7595, replying to talthiel#0000> same [00:13:56] A lot of people will not think to volunteer even if they may have necessary skills if they think the project is in good shape [00:13:57] Miraheze is more than Miraheze Ltd. You don't seem to understand the community [00:14:01] wikitide is what some miraheze people moved to and is what killed miraheze [00:14:03] Is @Owen seriously going to just let everything fall apart? Does he have no duty to his organization? [00:14:05] I don't want randos just editing my wiki, which Fandom said was against their ToS [00:14:05] It’s not so much board members as technical volunteers [00:14:22] His duty to the organization at this point is to oversee a wind down [00:14:22] chiming in to say that shoutwiki is garbage, avoid it at all costs. [00:14:22] For being totally free to use im surprised this lasted as long as it did [00:14:24] The "community" ultimately exists on a private platform operated by a private company owned by private individuals [00:14:26] i fully agree with kamidere's point tbh [00:14:27] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Hosting_services [00:14:29] I like Miraheze because if you view a Fandom wiki on mobile, 85% of the screen is obscured by ads at all times [00:14:34] I'm not paying money [00:14:37] Miraheze is not under the organization. The organization simply exists to legally serve the community. [00:14:38] i just wanted a wiki that i could disable random people from editing [00:14:38] OOTL; is there an explanation of why Miraheze is shutting down? [00:14:45] that's ridiculous [00:14:47] Some farms offer private options. WikiTide does, Fandom doesn’t, I am unaware on ShoutWiki [00:14:48] internal conflict [00:14:52] many are free [00:14:53] Really complex but basically, there's no volunteers left [00:14:54] Fandom is just crappy [00:14:55] As a member of the board; it appears Owen has decided the better options to shut down gracefully rather than let the project crash abruptly [00:14:57] Does ShoutWiki and WikiTide allow NSFW? [00:14:58] <[baws]#7595> is wikitide free [00:14:59] same, and it has good twst sprites and that [00:15:00] You usually get what you pay for [00:15:04] but like why are they doing this at all [00:15:05] yes [00:15:08] Alright, well, good luck everyone [00:15:11] Not really. They made a post about it, but all the post said was that things were going well compared to the past. [00:15:11] Fanson's tos is ass. Just rent a cheap VPS for between $5-$10 a month from any VPS provider, install MediaWiki on it, then get a domain from somewhere like namecheap.com, hook it up to your VPS and off you go. [00:15:12] Welp. [00:15:12] <[baws]#7595> is there a link [00:15:13] are there any guides on how to set up a wiki on your own? i don't want something free if it's just going to fall apart again [00:15:14] wait what [00:15:17] Miraheze seemed to be doing fine, like wtf [00:15:19] That seems weird... like there's plenty of people who seem willing to step up? [00:15:20] im not going to wikitide because that's what fucking killed miraheze [00:15:22] WikiTide’s Content Policy is currently being finalized. I am again unaware on ShoutWiki but would assume so [00:15:30] Internal drama generally would not warrant shutting the whole thing down. [00:15:31] There's actually not, most people left [00:15:34] literally had plans for paid tier like wtf [00:15:35] Dumb drama where a bunch of people left over some decision nobody knows about except admins, and admins are unwilling to ask anyone not in their friend group to volunteer to keep the service afloat. [00:15:35] May I recommend upping the slowmode a bit more until the initial outrage/confusion calms down? <:pupCoffeeMH:766487840694599711> [00:15:40] So… because Miraheeze will reach the end of the road in 4 months… Does that mean this server will go too? [00:15:43] Fanson's tos is ass. Just rent a cheap VPS for between $5-$10 a month from any VPS provider, install MediaWiki on it, then get a domain from somewhere like namecheap.com, hook it up to your VPS and off you go. Google "setting up a MediaWiki install on a VPS" [00:15:46] I would personally disagree and advise to refrain from accusations like that [00:15:46] the service is closing down? why [00:15:48] is the one most similar to miraheze ShoutWiki? [00:15:48] the staff seem to be taking out their personal conflicts on the users 🤷‍♀️ [00:15:49] Wait, why are image backups disabled [00:15:52] What a waste. [00:15:55] Exactly this. There will be no more technical support. There will be a fatal bug or exploit or attack one day, causing MH to suddenly cease existing. This way, there's months to receive and migrate data so it is not lost [00:15:55] @orduin why pin the message [00:15:56] This seems extremely stupid and self-inflicted. [00:16:05] AFAIK only miraheze right now allows for some degree of NSFW [00:16:06] I will make google doc replacements of every page I have made on Wiki. Then make wikilinks going to the other docs. [00:16:07] we know next to nothing, why are you guys hiding this from us [00:16:09] 🙏 [00:16:10] Lol [00:16:10] Huge waste of time [00:16:13] [1/2] this is a grievous disappointment, especially after the repeated assurances of increasing stability. i fear the board has let itself be blinded by a narrow set of problems with a small group of people and forgotten that the world it has access to - and the users it has responsibilities to - were far broader than just the people in their hair every day. [00:16:13] [2/2] this is a mistake, but it was fun while it lasted. in the future, i hope you remember what you've done - good and ill - and never, ever let this repeat itself. [00:16:18] We aren’t hiding anything [00:16:19] Because it's accurate [00:16:25] why give up [00:16:26] https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-pikachu-crying-cry-sad-gif-16556971 [00:16:31] i'm literally just a student without any money for domains or fancy/heavy-duty equipment for hosting. i'm just genuinely depressed that the decisions of a few are impacting people like me who just set up a wiki to archive a personal labor of love. i don't want to curse anyone out but, god, this is severely disappointing. [00:16:33] <[baws]#7595> where tf is the link to wikitide [00:16:35] the announcement was like two paragraphs [00:16:37] because some loser made you guys feel bad? [00:16:45] <[baws]#7595> i want a private ad-free wiki [00:16:46] my exact sentiment. [00:16:49] Exactly. They tried to bullshit about having canvassed for volunteers but all they did is dm their friends or whatever. They should have been tagging everyone with application forms or putting banner ads on the site asking for volunteers. [00:16:50] Say I’m wrong, sure. But it really didn’t destroy Miraheze, Miraheze destroyed itself. You want to have this out again, DM me, but I won’t do this here. [00:16:50] yeah this [00:16:53] Well, if they're giving into wikitide, I guess we should go to wikitide. [00:16:53] internet is so shit rn, please let's go back to 2004 [00:16:58] It’s happening because of a select few who have irreparable damaged miraheze by pushing their fork and trashing miraheze in the process so people would move to their fork. [00:16:58] This outcome is the result of more than one singular cause [00:17:06] yeah this makes absolutely no sense. [00:17:08] [1/2] ^^^ [00:17:08] [2/2] the "board" won't exist in a couple months so like tf [00:17:08] https://tenor.com/view/all-of-this-pointing-up-there-see-this-gif-14720503 [00:17:09] <34.29cm#0000> Adding my two cents in the middle of this mess but it kinda looks to us users like no attempts were made to find new volunteers? This is a pretty bad situation. I'm probably not the only admin who made a major move from Fandom and was trying to support a non-lucrative platform. [00:17:13] and has Miraheze been meaningfully hurt? [00:17:14] and? doesn't mean they're hiding anything, it could be clearer, but they're not hiding anything [00:17:15] This is a lie, to be clear [00:17:16] Everyone who left did so because they want to, not because they were coaxed into it [00:17:17] I think people mean more in the sense that they feel blindsided by the announcement and now it's being portrayed as a fait accompli [00:17:17] yeesh first reddit becomes a dumpsterfire now this [00:17:20] That's a deep oversimplification, but I'll not be getting into that. [00:17:22] Paying for domains is so dumb. Collectivize the internet [00:17:24] [1/2] okay 1) can you back up images, video, and audio easily from Miraheze? [00:17:24] [2/2] 2) is there another wikifarm available? a free one [00:17:27] The wiki community is widespread and compassionate. Reach out to some folks in the wider space of wiki projects. Folks will often contribute or provide financially because they believe in wiki as a whole [00:17:28] don't forget twitter [00:17:29] it seems like the board is just rage quitting? [00:17:30] [1/3] >Shuts down due to no volunteers [00:17:30] [2/3] >Never asked for volunteers [00:17:31] [3/3] I don't buy it. [00:17:39] Image dumps are available by request yes [00:17:41] tbh twitter was already hell [00:17:43] then what's the truth? [00:17:43] 1. Yes. Images will need to be requested via [[phab:]] [00:17:43] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/phab: [00:17:44] [00:17:45] Yeah, I don't know why they're not opening a 'hey we need more volunteers or we'll shut down' period. It seems almost childish. [00:17:48] which seems to indicate that people wanting to fork was justified, since the board here is acting in an extremely stupid and pathetic way. [00:17:51] We've asked for it for years, no one ever stepped up [00:17:51] Welp, looks like this server will shut down too once Miraheeze shuts down in October [00:17:53] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Hosting_services [00:17:54] some single member made you guys all feel bad and want to quit? [00:18:01] <.generalnuisance#0000> well. I refuse to go back to Fandom. glad i spent months of my life on a wiki that never got to launch. [00:18:03] There has been an active post asking for volunteers for a while from my understanding [00:18:11] okay why cant we image/media dump automatically if it's all shutting down? [00:18:12] (handshake emoji) [00:18:13] 2) Yes, the ones listed have been Fandom, WikiTide, ShoutWiki [00:18:14] Staff here should ping this tbh [00:18:26] what we’ve told you is the truth [00:18:27] That's a gross oversimplification and not the only potential cause of this result [00:18:28] This is the most random BSed decision ever, it was made without forethought into the thousands of people who use this service because no other reasonable, feasible, and usable alternatives exist [00:18:31] Ewww Fandom [00:18:31] [1/3] wtf [00:18:32] [2/3] miraheze always asked for volunteers [00:18:32] [3/3] the problem is that realistically no one really wants to do heavy weight job as an actual volunteer [00:18:33] absolutely same. We need to decide together how to salvege our wikis, not everypone is tech savvy [00:18:34] Wikipedia has managed to survive 23 years by being transparent with its activities. Miraheze can do the same. [00:18:35] Laboring for free to babysit a bunch of internet children was never an attractive calling to many and which is why not a lot of people ever volunteered [00:18:40] why should anyone here trust Wikitide after what's happened here on Miraheze [00:18:40] I bet people are going to have a very hard time finding a ready-made wiki farm that has no ads [00:18:42] Uhh there was advertisements for it and also there was the panic generated [00:18:44] fuck fandom but ill give the other two a go [00:18:45] I was gonna use Miraheze as a means of learning how to make a wiki and then port it to my own server when I had the time to do so once I'd learned how it all worked, so... guess I'm gonna just jump into the deep end?? [00:18:47] see [[Miraheze Vacancies]] [00:18:47] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Miraheze_Vacancies [00:18:48] Maybe make an emergency call for volunteers before deciding to shut down? [00:18:48] [00:18:49] i do not at all trust wikitide [00:18:52] Hardware limitations, primarily. MH is a service of limited means, and image dumps are hardware-intensive. [00:18:54] And guess what, Miraheze doesn't have employees. Everybody is a volunteer the same as everybody else. [00:18:56] How will folks not on this server know that the service is being shut down? [00:18:58] To be clear, I was stating that I don't buy that volunteers were never asked for. [00:19:02] well there's no overlap in the drama? [00:19:07] That in itself didn't kill Miraheze, the lack of volunteers did, volunteers who left because they wanted to [00:19:09] As a counter point, this is the most logical course of action if those responsibile for maintaining the service do not feel they can do so reliably. [00:19:10] Miraheze could never hire employees without compromising the community [00:19:10] <.generalnuisance#0000, replying to fabled_druid#0000> ❤️ [00:19:15] Void made a statement on the Community noticeboard [00:19:16] @Stewards here, a CN might help [00:19:18] How do I make a backup? Create a data dump? [00:19:19] I'm not able to pay or host some service for my wiki, I can't use Fandom because their horseshit ToS forbid private editing, and I don't know what other safe, secure, and reliable services out there exist as an alternative [00:19:19] No I don’t recommend WikiTide [00:19:24] We've always done this, you can look at the archives, at announcements, everything [00:19:28] Wikitide comprises people directly involved in this entire clusterfuck [00:19:29] advertisements? where? [00:19:29] Void already did [00:19:36] aight thanks, but never suggest paid sources aight. also are any of these non commercial amd/or with visual editor [00:19:41] yes, you have a vendetta against it, we’ve been clear [00:19:43] You guys set us up and pulled out the rug [00:19:43] Are yall seriously going pin the blame on a website that just recently came into existence prior to this whole mess? [00:19:45] Statements have been made on every major social platform on which MH has presence. [00:19:47] Well, this is a tragedy. [00:19:48] Special:DataDump for an XML export of your text content [00:19:48] People who left this service because they were dissatisfied with it, yes [00:19:49] There's no fucking way this website is closing right now bro I just found out about it and it's what I've been looking for for months wtf [00:19:53] thats fair apologies [00:19:53] If WikiTide is a fork of miraheze, does that mean it's the same layout and mechanics? I don't really care about the staff drama, and WikiTide being similar is very appealing. [00:19:54] see this man is talking truth: why make the best indie wikifarm place shut down over it. [00:19:54] central notice? [00:19:55] with 0 alternatives [00:20:04] No, CN post [00:20:07] https://tenor.com/view/perfect-popcorn-michael-jackson-gif-26271837 [00:20:07] yes [00:20:10] And? They don't owe you anything, this is all run for free by volunteers [00:20:13] What event even sparekd this mass exodis of volunteers? [00:20:13] Yeah, same layout, mostly same policies, etc [00:20:16] You're being a bit unfair here. Miraheze is essentially a charity, providing this service to you completely for free with no strings attached [00:20:16] [1/2] a lot of them are free [00:20:17] [2/2] and visual editor has been a thing in mediawiki for years [00:20:18] <.generalnuisance#0000, replying to deratyne#0000> Luckily mine is still small enough that I could just scrape all my page code manually and move it within a few hours but. [00:20:18] Any private wiki sites you guys can link me? I need some desperately [00:20:24] I'm probably gonna bite the bullet and use a paid service like my friend does [00:20:25] i know, man. i always hated fandom because of like... the name. the branding. the corporate nonsense. [00:20:28] Trust and Safety decision that many volunteers disapproved of [00:20:29] <.generalnuisance#0000> my god [00:20:30] Hey um [00:20:34] yes and then its their fault they formed a second monopolistic form of the wiki-farm mrket [00:20:38] help me [00:20:43] I’m a little confused as to what exactly’s going on [00:20:45] Again, where are we supposed to go [00:20:47] weh glad I held off on donating lol [00:20:50] <[baws]#7595, replying to corykun#0000> same [00:20:50] See #announcements [00:20:51] true [00:20:52] click delete [00:20:54] why did you shut it all down? what did that accomplish? do you need to cwy over dwama that badwy? [00:20:58] Delete the old dump and you can create a new one [00:21:03] i am NOT moving to the shithole that is fandom [00:21:05] > The dump you have selected for deletion has failed. [00:21:06] How do I access WikiTide? [00:21:06] Very sad but anyways - if one wanted to host their wiki on a PHP hosting service, how could one determine how big a wiki is? I suppose I could just download the dump and put it on a local server but if there were some way on the dashboard or soemthing [00:21:11] I think resources in an announcement channel on how to move to another mediawiki host would be nice ^^ [00:21:12] I mean you never even looked for people to volunteer. If I don't see calls for volunteers I think the site is in good shape and will not volunteer. [00:21:15] mature response. [00:21:16] I have to grant that it is bizarre to get so upset about a T&S decision when T&S is guided solely by law and risk analysis. [00:21:16] If you want to move to a place that doesn’t care about your data protection, sure. [00:21:19] ShoutWiki is an alternative, but it's very different from both MH and Fandom [00:21:32] shoutwiki is terrible [00:21:36] There have been constant calls for volunteers over the years, what are you talking about? [00:21:37] I'd like to hear from someone unbiased, if you don't mind... [00:21:42] I came FROM fandom [00:21:44] especially because there's already a wiki covering the same thing i am, but said wiki is used just for meming all over the place [00:21:47] <34.29cm#0000> Miraheze being the only "free (no ads)" option in the list c: [00:21:47] Then what the fuck do we do [00:21:50] [1/3] # If you can figure out self-hosting, it is so much better than signing up for a service that sets wikis up for you. You get full control of your wiki. Full access to do whatever you want to it and with it. [00:21:50] [2/3] # Trust me. [00:21:51] [3/3] https://mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Installing_MediaWiki [00:21:55] I don’t wanna move back there [00:21:56] <.generalnuisance#0000> [1/2] I REALLY do not want to move to Wikitide bc they're the cause of this clusterfuck, but I really don't wanna go to shoutwiki bc its peepee. [00:21:56] <.generalnuisance#0000> [2/2] And I came FROM Fandom and I am NOT going back [00:21:58] Great [00:21:59] What's terrible about Shoutwiki? [00:22:00] Genuinely [00:22:03] The use of a heading is unneeded [00:22:05] me, using chromeos: [00:22:09] People would self host if they could lmao [00:22:12] Now we're abusing Discord markdown lol [00:22:13] Why am I not surprised that a HOI4 modder is somehow one of the few people not going full schizo rn [00:22:13] meh [00:22:14] ShoutWiki has been dead for years. [00:22:16] Leaving an open post for volunteers is very different than putting out a message directly asking for them, especially when the lack of volunteers causes total service shutdown [00:22:20] Now what can we do if we can't self host? [00:22:21] Why are people pushing that. [00:22:24] omg Andrew Lee is mentioned in this drama [00:22:24] I have never seen a single shout for volunteers, and especially not one which had any indication of dire need. [00:22:25] <[baws]#7595, replying to paladox#0000> is there a free hosting website [00:22:28] define 'dead', I can access the site fine [00:22:30] it's completely unnecessary though [00:22:31] RIP Miraheze 2015-2023 [00:22:32] I don’t have any backend skills but I’m genuinely willing to learn how to do this [00:22:32] you're effectively punishing people for being poor [00:22:35] ^^ this [00:22:39] again, meh [00:22:40] [1/2] if you want to host on another service [00:22:40] [2/2] DigitalOcean is my go-to [00:22:42] whos andrew lee [00:22:43] Miraheze was really the only good wiki host out there [00:22:47] Because modding any Paradox game requires a level of patience and self-control few people have. [00:22:47] Ive already emotionally broken down but the logical part of my brain is kicking into play. [00:22:47] aight apologies, just frustrating this happening. i thought you had your shit together [00:22:50] <[baws]#7595, replying to paladox#0000> true [00:22:50] Hardly any staff, wiki creator hasn’t worked in years, no HTTPS. [00:22:53] I wouldn't levy that accusation. That's what all of capitalism does. [00:22:53] a droplet with 4 GB of ram and at least 2 cores is good enough i'd say [00:22:56] yeah and you guys ruined it [00:22:56] It’s an end of a era [00:22:56] it's not their fault you can't pay for a server host [00:22:57] Do it, you'll have a much better end user experience [00:22:59] Honestly at this rate you're better off figuring it out yourself. People have given you options and you've ignored all of them. [00:23:04] in my experience, self-hosting has always been a huge pain in the ass if you're not daily-driving your wiki because of constant updates for security [00:23:07] [1/2] EXACTLY THIS [00:23:07] [2/2] like "just pay $20/month" like [00:23:08] (unless your wiki is so popular that it gets millions of views a day probably not) [00:23:10] Andrew Lee is the one that went on a cocaine-fueled rampage to take over freenode and alienate the entire freenode community, to turn it into right-wing cryptocurrency spam place [00:23:10] T H I S ^^^^^^^ [00:23:10] It's because dire need has been the status quo since day one. You can't emphasize something that's already at its max [00:23:11] that's so fuckin elitist [00:23:14] you got any spare server space mr tombricks [00:23:14] fandom lags my computer to hell and back so fandom is a no go [00:23:15] well they did post a news update this april [00:23:16] So apparent beef with wikitide aside, do they have any quality/hosting problems? [00:23:20] i was joking, i was one of the freenode admins when andrew took over [00:23:21] well I'm sorry but things cost money [00:23:22] Miraheze was doing us a service by having this for free [00:23:26] he is also... a lot of other things https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Lee_(entrepreneur) [00:23:32] where is wikitide i'll use it [00:23:35] ok continue being an elitist asshole [00:23:36] wow, what a last sentence of the blurb [00:23:37] @orduin @zppix there is a user on meta that needs a ban [00:23:38] It ends in .com [00:23:40] Miraheze was a charity and that was an issue [00:23:40] nobody wants or deserves that [00:23:41] it’s brand new. so aside from it still being set up, no [00:23:47] because you sound just, like that [00:23:53] Charging for a service isnt elitist [00:23:57] BY VERY FUCKING FAR and now it's over [00:23:58] god bless the mundane arguing [00:23:59] Also, how the fuck is blaming Wikitide and Fandom going to fix yalls problems? [00:24:00] Unfortunately I only currently own a domain and not a web server. I am gonna dump my wiki on my local server (aka on my computer) and see how large it is to see if I can get a cheap hosting service. [00:24:01] Mmhm? [00:24:02] "sucks if you don't have money, you can cope" [00:24:03] Will WikiTide have this level of babydoll management [00:24:06] hey @zppix [00:24:14] hah nice [00:24:16] I'm sorry you don't understand but like people have pointed out alternatives to you and most of them cost money [00:24:17] I'll ask again, what's this nonsense draa that made so many people quit, so much so that it's causing total cessation of support? [00:24:21] Most of the same people who left Miraheze so yeah probably. [00:24:21] Indeed. I'm still looking for a solution. [00:24:21] yeah that's fuckin elitist, it makes you sound like an asshole [00:24:27] Isn't the model for-profit? [00:24:29] @zppix https://meta.miraheze.org/w/index.php?title=User:Hhhhhhhhh&action=edit&redlink=1 [00:24:29] We are here because you are free [00:24:30] can I suggest wiki.gg for gaming wikis? I'm not affiliated with them but I know the people running it and I think they do a good job, ads are minimal, they provide support for setting up, let you theme, etc. [00:24:31] if i get a web server up and running i can lend you some space for ur wiki [00:24:34] Wait, so no more creating wikis? [00:24:36] how tf is it elitist to point out that things cost money??? [00:24:37] I wouldn't use any general free hosting, they're always terrible [00:24:38] not all of us are rich fucks who can afford some high or middle end hosting service [00:24:39] Hey jess! [00:24:42] Some of the staff members didn't like each other anymore [00:24:42] ltns! [00:24:43] Well there are thousands of users and how many actually knew about this? I don't think many if they are suddenly coming here confused. [00:24:43] https://tenor.com/view/josua-joshua-fire-air-heat-gif-23444339 [00:24:44] they are making nonsense edits on talk:board [00:24:47] YOU GUYS ARE ATTACKING A WIKIFARM WITH 19 WIKIS LMAOOOO [00:24:49] some t&s shit i'm assuming [00:24:51] Nope. Effective immediately. [00:24:51] Anyways, I'll be muting the server for a couple days. Good luck dealing with the uninformed, underaged masses to what few volunteers remain 🫡 [00:24:52] Yoinked [00:24:55] And neither am I, I'm just as disappointed that miraheze is shutting down as you are [00:24:56] <34.29cm#0000> [1/3] > Welcome to WikiTide! [00:24:56] <34.29cm#0000> [2/3] > We offer your community flexibility like none other, powered by our expert MediaWiki hosting solutions, currently powering 19 wikis [00:24:57] <34.29cm#0000> [3/3] isn't this going to . crash somewhere [00:25:01] the whole point of Miraheze was to be an accessible, safe, secure, and reliable wiki farm service [00:25:07] You will find shit service on WikiTide who won’t care about you. John already spoken out about the people who later created that fork [00:25:10] Watching people actually go to war against each other instead of working together to find a solution [00:25:16] because you sound content with it and fair to respect overall. we came here because you were free [00:25:16] and they threw us in the shitter for it [00:25:18] ? [00:25:21] Telepedia (I think that's what's called) is also an alternative, but it does have a more specific focus if I remember correctly [00:25:23] If you don’t care about your data then WikiTide is the place for you! [00:25:30] I bet there's no issue [00:25:31] Oh god gamn it [00:25:34] i'm pretty sure miraheze has users that AREN'T on this server out of personal preference [00:25:40] Yeah…<:aliciaatsui:608961211169505301> [00:25:42] literally everything crashes at some point [00:25:42] honestly y'all i'm so sorry it has come to this tbh [00:25:43] Dude chill out high school finals couldn't have been that bad [00:25:43] WHAT DATA [00:25:44] that's an actual issue of course it is [00:25:46] Does anyone know any free sources that are willing to hose NSFW wikis? I can't go to Fandom for obvious reasons [00:25:46] Who says no one cares about your data? You're correlating Raidarr and WikiTide together when both are unrelated [00:25:47] and they probably don't log into the wiki every day [00:25:50] Question, again, how does one request an imagedump? [00:25:51] Can't seem to find wikitide can anybody link it? [00:25:53] Your PII data [00:25:53] So WikiTide is paid. Great, have real options eh [00:25:54] How about we focus our energy into determine which wiki farm is most suitable to our needs? [00:25:56] I'm not part of miraheze [00:25:56] there was nothing wrong with the model. unfortunately, all that's wrong is the strategy with which it was operated. the unfortunate truth of being management is that once you lead your service into complete collapse, it washes away all the good you did for the years before it [00:26:03] Just go to wikitide.com [00:26:04] Data protection [00:26:07] Genuinely good question! I’ll need an image dump for my stuff Goob [00:26:08] then keep your answers to yourself [00:26:09] Thanks [00:26:10] FUCK! [00:26:19] oh yeah i forgot that wikitide is based in the us [00:26:19] <.generalnuisance#0000> All I'm going to say is that THANK FUCK MIRAHEZE IS OPEN SOURCE [00:26:23] ??? ok so I'm the asshole? [00:26:23] @Juwi @orduin @notaracham @paladox @Darkbitlike please set up some kind of an application system for potential volunteers and tag everyone with it. Miraheze really needs this. [00:26:24] We need a standard wiki and NSFW wiki (based on the responses here). [00:26:25] Such as? [00:26:26] https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12323854/officers aw didn’t realise everyone was so young [00:26:30] <34.29cm#0000, replying to fiddlestix#0000> no way /s i'm implying that the platform may not be expecting a sudden influx of users moving their entire wiki [00:26:37] How about we look into that while we're all gathered. [00:26:41] I guess we've got to contact the Internet Archive on behalf of 90% of the wikis who don't have reps in this server. [00:26:51] Exactly. A wiki I frequent in as an editor has a lot of images, and it turns out that image dump was disabled like a month ago [00:26:57] Honestly, this. If you're actually proactive about it instead of passive and resigned, I'm sure you'll find volunteers. [00:26:58] Looking into some alternatives, MyWikis specifically compares themselves to Miraheze in order to demonstrate how much better MyWikis is in comparison, even specifically mentioning Miraheze's issues with volunteers and funding... https://www.mywikis.com/compare [00:26:59] tbh that's if anyone cooperates [00:27:00] Usernames? Passwords? Emails? Ip addresses and so much more? [00:27:00] Nobody demanded your opinion on what's happening. You could have left it alone [00:27:02] Miraheze is just pissy there's a fork and the staff are whiny about some shitty person [00:27:09] <.generalnuisance#0000> Because that means someone could probably make a Miraheze fork of some sort? [00:27:09] We're doomed, ain't we? [00:27:10] the lgbtqia wiki apparently is moving there https://lgbtqia.mywikis.wiki/wiki/Main_Page [00:27:12] Can they make private wikis? [00:27:15] Image dumps are available via a request [00:27:23] A resource guide that can help people host their own wikis would be helpful as well. [00:27:28] this is a public discord server, I'm allowed to respond to people, you can't tell me what I can and can't respond to, fuck off [00:27:33] Alright, great, request to whom [00:27:34] CHROMEOS [00:27:35] Who's going to review them? Nobody wants to volunteer anymore anyway. Asking volunteers who don't want to do this anymore to do more work isn't a successful model either [00:27:37] But something tells me that the heads no longer want volunteers. They want to wash their hands of everything; not even qualified volunteers would keep it afloat at this point. [00:27:38] i thought a nonprofit aiming to be an alternative to fandom would be more tenacious. i'm not even angry, just very very sad [00:27:44] DMs, some other motion [00:27:46] never regretted a donation more lol [00:27:47] and its just their fault [00:27:48] Then don't cry when people call you out on being an ass [00:27:48] Not too surprising given whats happening rn lol [00:27:54] [1/2] So no image dumps, shutdown in October, nobody can export images but they can export content. Volunteers were needed, but no call for volunteers was made. But hey at least we got money. [00:27:55] [2/2] I can tell this project was managed by youngsters [00:27:55] <.generalnuisance#0000, replying to dragonmarquise#0000> Is MyWikis paid or free? [00:27:57] So I say we focus on the answer to those three issues. [00:28:03] It's paid. [00:28:05] Dang, I might actually move my worldbuilding/project planning wiki to there in that case. Just gonna bite the bullet on the hosting cost... [00:28:07] Alright, I'm done here you troll, I'm not crying over shit lmao [00:28:12] @notaracham why are we not being told the whole entire truth [00:28:17] chill, guys [00:28:20] Once again Image dumps are available upon request [00:28:22] Mods can we _please_ get slowmode increased here a little bit? [00:28:24] it's too late at this point. i do not see the board un-giving up, especially after this reaction [00:28:27] It's paid only from what I'm seeing: https://www.mywikis.com/plans [00:28:27] We are being lied to and having information we need held from us [00:28:30] if someone actually wants to build their own wikifarm or make MIRAHEZE... 2! please hit me up 😭 [00:28:32] [1/2] 6 hour slow mode [00:28:32] [2/2] # do it [00:28:33] WikiTide is free, WikiForge is paid [00:28:34] what information? [00:28:34] <.generalnuisance#0000, replying to darkmatterman4500#0000> What's the general price point? I'm willing to pay up to a certain point - but I'm a college student who gets by from working in the summers [00:28:38] No use at this point. Nobody's gonna listen. [00:28:38] not related to the current discussion, but what does this bot do? [00:28:39] You guys got private wikis I can use? I got like 3-4 years of wiki stuff to move [00:28:39] why this is happening [00:28:41] ahh danke [00:28:42] after this shitshow, who would want to volunteer [00:28:43] make your orderly exit and avoid them in the future. [00:28:53] relays irc to discord and vice versa [00:28:55] What information do you think you aren't getting? [00:28:57] I believe the decision has been made [00:29:01] I was at least somewhat qualified to be an SRE, and having formerly owned Miraheze I would have liked to have been asked for the help I offered. Oh well. [00:29:02] Mirrors messages sent in IRC. [00:29:04] relays messages between this discord and an IRC channel [00:29:10] whoa irc [00:29:10] True. They really made sure to burn the bridge right away. [00:29:10] People who want to keep information free and accessible [00:29:12] Thanks a lot Naleksuh. You ruined everything... [00:29:32] So just to know, besides images, if I use datadump, does that cover everything? like for text, css, templates, things like that? [00:29:37] Who the hell is nalekush [00:29:41] I call horseshit that one member took down Miraheze, it's absolutely absurd, the idea that one single member made this three year company thing just collapse is fishy af. There's stuff we aren't being told, there's information being left in the dark [00:29:42] not as bad as db141 [00:29:43] this is poor damage control, i agree. i expected better [00:29:45] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_Comment/Global_ban_for_Naleksuh [00:29:46] We can avoid accusations about any one user causing this outcome; that is an oversimplification that is not useful [00:29:49] what did naleksuh do [00:29:55] Okay, so now I'll bite. What happened? [00:29:56] can we shut the fuck up about naleksuh, please? [00:29:57] bring irc back do it do it do it do it do i [00:30:03] neat. hello irc [00:30:03] idk why you're so hung up on this when it's not just that that happened [00:30:06] irc [00:30:09] Anyone know alternative private wikis? [00:30:13] irc yes [00:30:15] Scapegoat for poor management by a bunch of kids lol [00:30:16] Noo! [00:30:16] no one would want to use mywikis due to it being a money thing [00:30:17] i agree these are clearly oversimplifications. but as long as nobody is willing to give the detailed account then that's all you're going to hear [00:30:23] slowmode sucks [00:30:30] to second this, we are happy to answer any questions that are asked [00:30:31] This is not due to one user and I'd kindly ask that folks stop saying this. [00:30:49] Naleksuh caused the retirement, through drama, of several volunteers which led to the situation we're in now [00:30:51] Then stop hiding information from us, and give us the whole truht [00:30:57] zased [00:31:08] Once again. Blaming others for Miraheze's shutdown isn't gonna fucking fix things. What part of that do yall not fucking understand. [00:31:12] Brilliant can’t even delete the existing dump [00:31:12] Yeah, I'm about to switch to IRC too lol [00:31:25] I just want alternatives for private wikis, that are free [00:31:25] Long-story short, he was a former volunteer here who had a history of being rude to other volunteers. [00:31:26] This was a LONG time coming, this isnt one users fault, period. [00:31:28] this has been coming a lot longer than just a day [00:31:32] Unfortunate to hear the news [00:31:34] This is some conspiracy begging [00:31:37] No it has been pointed out several times in this channel that it was not one users fault. This is simply false [00:31:39] i'm going to have to switch to fandom aren't i 👍 [00:31:40] Well good thing I didn't make my wiki yet lol [00:31:42] tbh I saw this coming not with Naleksuh, but when John left [00:31:45] ask some questions then [00:31:46] destined to happen [00:31:47] It's a burnout problem. We've relied to too few people for too long who were too inexperienced to handle everything that was asked of them. [00:31:50] I'm gay [00:31:52] Can we just focus on a solution, please? [00:31:52] i dont think theres a single person or event at fault here. in general theres just poor messaging in the management and between them and the community. it happens a lot when open, volunteer led projects get big like this and unfortuneately a lot of them fall like this [00:31:53] nah homie its true lmao [00:31:54] Oh no. [00:31:55] <34.29cm#0000> [1/5] Alright so the suggestions I'm seeing so far are [00:31:55] <34.29cm#0000> [2/5] >Fandom (no one wants to go back to Fandom) [00:31:55] <34.29cm#0000> [3/5] >ShoutWiki (I'm seeing people here complain that the platform is partly dead?) + ads [00:31:56] <34.29cm#0000> [4/5] >MyWikis (not free) [00:31:56] <34.29cm#0000> [5/5] I've heard about Wiki.gg but I hear they're similar to Fandom [00:31:56] information about why miraheze is collapsing is not really hidden, it's just spread throughout the past year or so of miraheze meta talk page edits and community noticeboards and other pages [00:31:57] [1/2] Confrontation good. Criticism good. Little bitch baby bottling up syndrome bad. Honesty and problem solvimh >>> ;_; just be peaceful uwu [00:31:57] omg me too [00:31:57] [2/2] Anyway, i've vented enough. Just frustrated it had to end like this. I'll take the advice given and begin plans to migrate my data someplace safe. [00:32:05] macfan400 based [00:32:05] You guys left us all to fail, most of us have no alternatives to Miraheze. What the hell do you expect us to do to recover from this [00:32:06] John left all the time though [00:32:09] i mean fake macfan [00:32:17] so where should image dump requests be made? [00:32:19] moving to IRC for this [00:32:19] gay jesses unite [00:32:29] [1/2] Miraheze is gonna die. [00:32:29] [2/2] What will we do? A chaotic period of a community that has hosted several communities for years is gonna be thanos snapped out just like that? [00:32:31] [1/3] 1. i don't want any blaming/conspiracy stuff. with that said i want to know the whole story if not a decent outline. [00:32:31] [2/3] 2. why can't something be done in the first place? [00:32:31] i fucking hate slowmode [00:32:31] [3/3] 3. if nothing can TRULY be done then what are the options? even for the users? [00:32:33] YES. YES [00:32:37] his final departure was a bit of a brouhaha [00:32:37] 😄 Labster! [00:32:43] thank god irc relay exists [00:32:50] i'm bi omg we just need one more and then we have a whole superhero team [00:32:51] not that I approve his behavior back then, but I'd say it was the first brick to fall kind of [00:32:55] Stewards' noticeboard I beleive is the correct location to make these requests. Another policy or procedure may be outlined in the future based on any provided guide for migration [00:32:57] 24 hour slow mode now [00:33:01] I mean we can prevent the end of miraheze tbh if we all work together to stop all this, I mean it isn't that hard and trying to go elsewhere leads to just issues. Especially with mediawiki and trying to use it to make your own. [00:33:02] so slay! [00:33:06] are there any anime wiki hosters [00:33:14] True, but I know he ain't the only one. There were already problems that persisted, such as those 500 errors that keeps popping up. [00:33:16] <.mystic_#0000, replying to 34.29cm#0000> wiki.gg is focused on gaming [00:33:20] Fandom is not a good alternative to Miraheze because while it does offer benefits that Miraheze can't offer, it unfortunately doesn't allow enough creative autonomy. [00:33:20] [1/4] We can't use that weird fork because it's an unsecure shithole of a wiki-farm [00:33:21] [2/4] We can't use Fandom because their near fascist terms of service [00:33:21] [3/4] We can't use personal hosting services because many of us have little to no money [00:33:21] [4/4] So tell me, what the fuck are we supposed to do? Never work on wikis again? [00:33:32] Everyone needs to relax [00:33:36] ^^^^^^^ [00:33:37] I just want a private wiki [00:33:37] I'm going to shoutwiki, personally [00:33:41] [1/5] Ok let me clarify: the shutdown is due to: [00:33:41] [2/5] - Naleksuh causing several volunteers to retire because Naleksuh (and I know this through working alongside the dopey cunt in various Team Fortress 2 projects) is a drama-mongering retard. [00:33:41] [3/5] - a lack of hiring new volunteers or even advertising the need for new volunteers [00:33:42] [4/5] - mismanagement by the rest of the team [00:33:42] [5/5] But hey we had a good financial month amirite [00:33:49] [1/2] For god's love man, just grow up. You're saying things like "[things no one has even claimed] are the reason everything is shutting down, but that doesn't sound right!" (wonder why...) and ignoring people giving you actual explanation [00:33:49] [2/2] Yeah yeah it sucks that it's going down but you're screaming with entitlement into a speakerphone [00:33:50] [1/2] The truth is exactly as void said, there's been a longstanding lack of technical volunteers, one of the last active volunteers resigned today. [00:33:50] [2/2] The board assessed the situation and decided there wasn't a realistic chance of getting enough new technical volunteers and rather than trying to stretch things out and crash unexpectedly the choice was made to wind things down with time for folks to offboard. [00:33:53] its kind of hard to relax in this sort of situation [00:33:54] we can prevent the end of miraheze if we collect the seven chaos emeralds [00:33:55] its not because of naleksuh [00:33:57] Go to one of the other free wiki farms [00:33:58] [1/4] 1. That's your opinion. A lot here would disagree. [00:33:58] [2/4] 2. Okay [00:33:59] [3/4] 3. Okay [00:33:59] [4/4] 4. ShoutWiki, Fandom, WikiTide all viable options [00:33:59] for fucks sake [00:33:59] <34.29cm#0000, replying to 34.29cm#0000> [1/3] Adding: [00:34:00] <34.29cm#0000, replying to 34.29cm#0000> [2/3] Wiki.gg is focused on gaming apparently [00:34:00] <34.29cm#0000, replying to 34.29cm#0000> [3/3] WikiTide is extremely new [00:34:01] I just wanna [00:34:07] Yea the trash can <:EpicFaceMH:912930767972225095> [00:34:09] Lots of alternatives [00:34:12] All I want is a private, free, NSFW-allowed wiki that I can learn mediawiki on, until I'm ready to self-host. No idea where to go for that. :/ [00:34:17] Yeah, I would like to second that [00:34:18] Listen to what @zppix is saying people. [00:34:21] This place is probably literally the only place tolerating me hosting a wiki covering nsfw topics. What other wiki farms will ever allow me to have such? [00:34:21] Search your feelings, you know it to be true [00:34:22] This wasn't just due to Naleksuh [00:34:28] Isn't ShoutWiki outdated though? [00:34:29] such as? [00:34:32] stop pointing fingers at people for something unrelated [00:34:34] ehhh, Miraheze is/was pretty much a charity, and it's not the government. Very uncommon situation of anything offering (near) limitless hosting [00:34:35] wikitide :d [00:34:35] what XD [00:34:37] How can you demand that volunteers do something they don't want to, just because you feel you don't have the means to find an alternative? [00:34:40] miraheze was destined to shut down [00:34:41] ooh, the people here with fancy roles are just using slurs unpunished. yeah, im out [00:34:44] Is shoutwiki free or private [00:34:59] i just need to know if theres a way to get all of my images off of the wiki so i can set up a self hosted one [00:35:01] [1/2] MY WIKI IS TANGENTIALLY FOCUSED [00:35:01] [2/2] ON GAMING :POGGIES: [00:35:02] <.mystic_#0000> currently looking into telepedia (anyone know of them?) [00:35:06] I have never heard of WikiTide before. [00:35:10] What slurs bro [00:35:12] probably seems like a bad time but how do I download all the images on a wiki? (Almost done with migration) [00:35:13] Who’s using slurs [00:35:24] scroll up someone used the r slur [00:35:25] r-slur [00:35:29] Where? [00:35:34] that's just gross. i was gonna ask how to backup wiki images but.. [00:35:38] what [00:35:40] tbf that's not a fancy role, just donor [00:35:48] Someone used r-slur a little ways up [00:35:50] ^ [00:35:51] bruh [00:35:54] Yeah, I need a wiki that tolerates nsfw topics. :/ [00:35:55] ShoutWiki is free with ads. [00:36:00] [1/2] >tf2cutcontent guy using slurs [00:36:00] [2/2] not surprised lol [00:36:03] with one minute slowmode, you gotta be creative with emoji reactions to communicate sometimes T_T [00:36:24] Because they advertized themselves as one of the best alternatives to Wikipedia, to Fandom, to all the others, they offered a free service while others don't, they offered lax rules where others don't. This isn't a money problem, it's not even a people problem [00:36:26] Same here, no other host would allow my game's wiki. [00:36:27] Anyone know a good way to selfhost? Even just to learn a little bit? I'm trying to backup everything and go from tbere [00:36:29] Anyone know how to delete a dump :)))) [00:36:32] I'm turning it back down, but we needed it for a minute there [00:36:43] Oh? [00:36:46] You don't know me, I don't know you, go fuck yourself cunt lmao [00:36:46] get a cheap VM and follow the instructions for installing mediawiki [00:36:52] does a wiki focused on documenting the extensive lore in a chatroom in a game count as a gaming oriented wiki because irdk [00:36:52] click on delete [00:36:54] Can I make private wikis? Because that's the main focus for it. That and being free like Miraheze was [00:36:56] That doesn't change anything about it being run for free by a bunch of volunteers [00:36:57] How does one keep the lights on without people? I don't think you get it. Volunteers don't owe anything to you [00:37:02] i know you :> [00:37:05] oh good [00:37:08] @everyone COOL IT, PEOPLE! [00:37:12] Can I make private wikis? Because that's the main focus for it. That and being free like Miraheze was. Discord broke so I had to repeat it but yeah [00:37:13] Again, most of us cannot afford to self host, and I'm not using some cheap shitty alternative with endless security issues [00:37:17] nice try [00:37:18] And now this! Which isnt generally considered a slur but still. Dont use it? [00:37:19] honestly, for private wikis I'd say selfhosting locally is the best way [00:37:22] shoulda done at here [00:37:23] Big whoop [00:37:28] so then when did they say the situation is dire and ask for volunteers [00:37:29] [1/2] rn all i'm doing is trying to find an alternative that is free and allows private wikis [00:37:29] [2/2] thats really all i'm lookin for rn lol [00:37:31] Dump you have selected for deletion has failed [00:37:32] Has anyone heard of wiki.gg [00:37:34] [1/2] then what of us who can't [00:37:34] [2/2] "Fuck you I guess" [00:37:38] Then you need to lower your standards because there's no other solution [00:37:40] The day Miraheze opened [00:37:42] ShoutWiki still uses http: the last time I checked. Also you shouldn't be using `@everyone` at a time like this. It'll only annoy people. [00:37:46] [1/2] i just really wish the board had been more aggressive about the desperation level of the need for technical volunteers. even if those of us who do know aren't capable, i absolutely could have shaken a few trees and branches looking to see if anyone was out there. there are so many people who didn't even know the service existed, and i find it impossible to believe that nobody coul [00:37:46] [2/2] d ever have been found if the community was leveraged more fully [00:37:47] Ayyyy same here [00:37:49] Does datadump backup everything? Like CSS and templates and stuff? Like besides images, i m wanting to get everything [00:37:50] dafuq blocking links to the main page [00:37:51] Please calm down [00:37:52] Miraheze has always had an open call for volunteers [00:37:55] someone link that [00:37:57] sad trombone [00:37:59] There simply isn't an alternative for my game's wiki, and self-hosting isn't an option. Thanks for the rug pull. [00:38:01] yoooo [00:38:02] The need for volunteers has been dire since day 1 [00:38:03] hugo and wiki.js are also good alternatives that require only light-weight hosting [00:38:05] that's not my fault, maybe if Miraheze didn't scam us all and monopolize the market we wouldn't be here [00:38:06] A friend recommended it to me, and I’m curious if any of you guys know how it is [00:38:09] you need to /auth [00:38:10] By 'private', do you mean private editing or private viewing? Bc if it's the latter, just download wikidpad and have it as a local FILE [00:38:10] You have to be a verified wiki user to post links in this server. That has been the case for a while. [00:38:10] the service was in a survival situation and it was not adequately made clear at any point [00:38:11] [1/3] talthiel i think you're being very emotional. i get what you're going through and i empathize but i think we should like. be a little practical here. [00:38:12] [2/3] yes i know we all want more volunteers, but doing that requires time, training, personal effort and trust. it sucks that internal affairs have hurt the site and are forcing it to be shut down despite good funding. [00:38:12] [3/3] just... step away and get a breather instead of throwing hands for a while [00:38:13] you can self host for free using oracle cloud infrastructure [00:38:19] i might just host my wiki on wikipedia dawwwwg [00:38:19] I know that. [00:38:20] great, wheres the @ everyone ping [00:38:21] i mean, I mentioned three alternatives that offers free tiers before, and I was mentioning his need specific for a private wiki [00:38:24] it does not matter [00:38:24] Miraheze has never had enough volunteers. Miraheze has always struggled to get the work done [00:38:26] What does this even mean [00:38:26] Or maybe say thank you for all the free hosting you've enjoyed all this time? [00:38:28] what is bro talkin about [00:38:30] oh hi purity! I've been seeing a lot of messages by you here and just realized who you were 😦 sorry to hear about all this [00:38:31] ????? It's free, how tf is it a scam lmao [00:38:33] <.generalnuisance#0000, replying to Kamidere#7777> DM me the link [00:38:34] isn't wikipedia a wiki within itself lmfao [00:38:42] Bruh. This Discord server took years to even be created wtf [00:38:44] rug pull out from under us [00:38:44] so the joke is [00:38:46] Maybe it should have been more obvious since I am relatively experienced with web stuff and have used miraheze for almost a year but never knew it even had an open call. [00:38:47] so what are people supposed to do now, there isnt anything that similar to miraheze tbh [00:38:47] They made an update post saying that they're working on adding HTTPS support. [00:38:47] omg miraheze is not a monopoly, fandom is [00:38:48] what volunteers are needed? [00:38:51] ....wait [00:38:54] everything [00:38:56] <.generalnuisance#0000> Fandom is the monopoly guys [00:38:59] I'm talking about recently, not 2015 [00:39:01] Yes, I believe they allow for private wikis! [00:39:02] Hi ND. It's fine, just frustrating. We finally had a good host in Miraheze after being dropped by so many other hosts. [00:39:02] [1/2] can someone mute this guy? he's obviously just stirring drama and conflict for the sake of making a scene [00:39:03] [2/2] or has no idea what he's talking about [00:39:03] What the hell is this absurdity? It's not a scam. [00:39:06] then what will be left? a fascist wiki farm company? [00:39:07] lmao how did miraheze monopolize anything [00:39:07] I guess there's an expectation to @\everyone every single fucking day, otherwise it doesn't count [00:39:07] [1/2] >monopolise the market [00:39:08] [2/2] thats fandom [00:39:08] Miraheze is not shutting down overnight [00:39:11] "we've never had enough" is understandable, but it's also not the same as "if we don't find someone, anyone, we're going the fuck down and there's no coming back" [00:39:12] @Ash Watch your language. [00:39:15] a rug pull would be them deleting the site without any notice, you've got time to get your wiki out [00:39:20] ignore dyno [00:39:25] ? isnt that just fandom lol [00:39:26] it will by October, which is unacceptable [00:39:26] YES THANK YOU! [00:39:26] the rug hasn't been pulled out from under you. we have given ample notice. [00:39:32] it's kinda funny tbh [00:39:39] Lots of months of notice [00:39:39] to be fair dyno is correct. but also i wanted to flip the bot off :( [00:39:40] 2 months notice is plenty [00:39:42] if mira gets more volunteers, is there a chance that it could stay up? [00:39:42] the most similar thing to miraheze is mediawiki itself [00:39:43] it took a year for this org to fail, too unrealistic a time-frame [00:39:44] If the community is able to pull together a team that can handle our infrastructure and handle MediaWiki, then we can discuss handing off to them if they exist. [00:39:45] According to whom? We've given 3 and a half months notice here. What more do you want? [00:39:48] Does anyone know of any alternatives? What are you plans for your content after Mirahaze? [00:39:53] i just lost patience and blocked him 💀 [00:39:53] @fabled_druid at least once. at least once. [00:39:56] Doesn't really change anything. If no one knows of any good alternatives. [00:39:59] shouldn't the announcement be protected since it'll be high-traffic? [00:40:02] I'll look into it then [00:40:03] considering how sudden this announcement was, can we trust that you won't suddenly announce that the cut off date will be earlier? [00:40:03] [1/2] which is the software it runs off of [00:40:03] [2/2] so uh y'know [00:40:06] i bet every server member has the ability to be steward and sysadmin 🥱 [00:40:08] im on the shoutwiki train [00:40:08] then maybe try that before announcing whatever shitshow happened today [00:40:09] How exactly? [00:40:10] do you have any familiarity whatsoever with how non-profits usually go? have you ever worked in one? [00:40:13] Can we all, just. Take a minute. Put our devices down. Breathe. Go get a snack. Come back with some actual intent to get something done in an organized fashion rather than just yelling at overworked volunteers who probably argued about the shutdown amongst themselves a lot already [00:40:14] There are alternatives, good is relative [00:40:15] Didn't expect to see this happen after taking a break to finish high school... [00:40:17] In the midst of people acting like very strangely entitled I am seriously requestiong whoever's running this server to make some kind of announcement post with whatever fair information there is on self-hosting wikis; it seems to be the cleanest/most reliable solution for not getting something shut down and just having resources about it would be helpful moving forward [00:40:23] <34.29cm#0000, replying to gabbinova#0000> pretty much what i wanted to ask, & why i brought up that it didn't seem to us like an informed cry for help was made before this decision [00:40:24] pin good [00:40:25] wikipedia is a nonprofit and it's been around over 10 years [00:40:27] Like? [00:40:34] Fine, I’ll save Miraheze. Again. [00:40:36] Fandom, WikiTide, ShoutWiki [00:40:38] 👍 ^ [00:40:38] [1/2] im experienced with unix systems and im pretty fine with js and css [00:40:39] [2/2] problem is that i dont like to touch financial things [00:40:42] It’s best for people to know these topics so that people can identify them. I’m assuming you’re looking down on what I created, but you can see what I have for yourself. It’s pretty professional. [00:40:49] Surely we need more management positions in SRE or they won't all get the recognition they deserve! Everybody needs to be on the board!!! [00:40:51] yet this isnt mentioned in your statement? [00:40:52] Everyone go to the main page of Meta.miraheze.org and propose solutions on the talk page. Volunteer to help also if you have skills. [00:40:53] they literally said in the announcement they're doing well financially [00:40:58] As much as I like Fandom, it doesn't offer enough creative autonomy. [00:41:00] wikipedia is ran by Wikimedia Foundation, it's not a wikifarm, and has around 90 million dollars in reserves [00:41:05] @Dyno fuck [00:41:06] @j._._. Watch your language. [00:41:08] hi [00:41:10] thank you i would like to donate my firstborn to you [00:41:10] That’s one of the reasons I ended up moving to miraheze [00:41:12] Lol [00:41:17] how can I get a wiki dump? [00:41:18] @Dyno fuck shit ass bitch poo poo [00:41:18] @notethanhobbes Watch your language. [00:41:21] Some of the staff have been mentioning "conflict of interest", which is weird. If a man was shutting down his restaurant, he wouldn't refrain from recommending other places to eat on the basis of driving traffic away from his establishment. [00:41:22] I’m still coming to terms with the fact that despite everything and everyone hating them fandom won. Every alternative is either old and outdated or ran by shitty people, or will be bought by them in the future. There’s no escape from them [00:41:24] Special:DataDump [00:41:27] Hi pcj from wiki.gg here if you have questions [00:41:27] I can't do so. I already have quite a history of being trigger-happy over stuff. [00:41:34] bruh why is miraheze shutting down wikis [00:41:35] for future reference I probably won't see messages unless I'm pinged, feel free to ping, or use the 'reply' feature and leave mentioning on. 😦 I agree though, Miraheze was the only good free host imo and probably the only one at all that would allow contrnet like that game [00:41:36] @Dyno BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [00:41:36] @j._._. Watch your language. [00:41:37] thanks m8 👍 [00:41:38] And it doesn’t provide enough freedom for staff to shut down discussion, even if it’s toxic and dangerous. [00:41:39] I'm not talking about finances, I'm talking about the immense difficulty of properly organizing a nonprofit, the whole cluster of "people problems" you can encounter in nonprofits [00:41:40] i said "poo poo" that was the no no word [00:41:40] yeah this is just absurd [00:41:40] Whut? No, I don’t have any issues with NSFW content. I literally just said I need a wiki provider that supports NSFW content. [00:41:43] f in the chat for miraheze [00:41:47] Can you not things are busy enough here [00:41:55] That's a fair ask, if consensus can be reached I'll see about getting such added [00:41:56] I can't go to Fandom, it's not my style, it's too controlling, why can't I make my own private wiki [00:41:59] fair [00:42:00] This sucks [00:42:01] [1/2] Ohh, ok. [00:42:01] [2/2] Sorry, I thought you were being sarcastic with me for a second. [00:42:03] [1/2] Haven’t tried it myself but you can consider using the mediawiki docker image as a playground without messing with your actual computer [00:42:04] [2/2] You’ll also be forced to learn Linux commands (and docker) which is never a bad thing [00:42:06] capital always wins, unfortunately [00:42:07] I dunno, first encountering the 'rEcEpTiOn' community and then all of this has left a bad taste in my mouth. If I can find a decent alternative, I might never look back. [00:42:07] calling a discord bot a bitch is insane [00:42:16] Much appreciated; I know some people have posted resources and directions here but a lot of it is getting drowned out [00:42:22] My focus right now is making sure folks can access their data in a timely fashion [00:42:23] Both Fandom and Miraheze have their own strengths and weaknesses. I was hoping that both would survive for decades. Obviously Fandom will until further notice. [00:42:26] [1/4] >try to download dump [00:42:26] [2/4] You must delete dump [00:42:27] [3/4] >try to delete dump [00:42:27] [4/4] Deletion failed get 🦆Ed [00:42:33] why are we still blaming fandom when they had nothing to do with this lmfao [00:42:39] if you just want a private wiki that only you can access, just run a local wiki on your computer [00:42:43] To be clear myself, if this is the case, please just only reccomend secure, viable, reliable, and Miraheze/wikipedia like stuff [00:42:43] I'd wait for things to cool down a bit, and we can get resources out over time. [00:42:44] @Dyno silly ass bot [00:42:50] fandom sucks yes but what do they have to do with the shutdown [00:42:58] You have a lot of needs it seems. Maybe try being less picky? It's not meant as an insult, but not everyone can meet everything you need for it to be perfect. [00:43:01] I want a wiki for me and my friends alone to edit, but for everyone to view [00:43:02] You gotta have someone who’s willing to sacrifice their financial state to host a wiki that can rival that of Fandom’s. [00:43:02] There is still a chance to save miraheze, so all we need it people who know what to do on a tech and managment level. [00:43:05] I do hope you have a plan to save Miraheze. [00:43:11] [1/3] >handing off [00:43:11] [2/3] Is this admission that you guys just don't want to do this anymore? [00:43:12] [3/3] If so, please just say so. People will bea lot more inclined to help if you're honest. [00:43:19] who said there's still a chance? [00:43:19] what is there to save? [00:43:20] Dark Brandon killed Miraheze for all the malarkey [00:43:25] Wind down of operations was just announced today, that's the current plan...... [00:43:29] i can volunteer, thats if miraheze's systems are using something im familiar with [00:43:30] i don't think it has anything to do with it. it's a competitor and it's nasty enough for people to not want to return there, yeah, but it has nothing to do with it. [00:43:35] You don’t need to, just see if there is. [00:43:36] the best part of fandom is fr the honest game trailers [00:43:36] Disabling most of the MediaWiki namespace was one of the worst things that happened to Fandom. A review process would have been better. They've already got a JavaScript review process. [00:43:37] I don't think anyone didn't want to keep working on Miraheze but the situation was untenable and everyone who volunteered left [00:43:37] Nope, I’m in the same situation as you, I think. [00:43:44] oof [00:43:48] Yes. Frankly yes. I've hinted it it, but I've burned out on the project. [00:43:50] So Reception123 resigned today? Damn..... [00:43:53] 👍 [00:43:55] Thank you Void. I mean that truly. [00:43:59] I want to thank Miraheze for hosting Board Game Online's wiki for all these years. It has always been an important part of BGO. It's the only place where all 1000+ items and skills are explained in great detail. ❤️ [00:44:03] I’d want to volunteer to help in anyway I can if it can help ^^ [00:44:09] How I make a request for an image dump? [00:44:11] ever since john left i wanted to retire :p [00:44:15] see [[Miraheze Vacancies]] [00:44:15] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Miraheze_Vacancies [00:44:16] [00:44:22] If anyone here has ample knowledge of MediaWiki, PHP, and Linux, please apply [00:44:24] Fair, I was once burned out on it too [00:44:33] That wasn't a slight btw. Trust me, I understand burnout better than anyone as a volunteer game dev. But I'm sure everyone appreciates the honesty. [00:44:33] Obsidian.md is good. [00:44:34] If all UK citizens in this channel recall their MPs and get me into power, I will nationalise Miraheze and save it [00:44:41] I’m with @orduin [00:44:43] Void themself said so, duh! [00:44:52] i hope we have experienced volunteers [00:44:52] where? [00:44:57] <34.29cm#0000, replying to Wiki-Bot#2998> is this pinned somewhere? I think this is good for anyone to look into just in case [00:44:59] What's weird is that they haven't updated the front page. Shutting down in a few months, but potential new users surely don't need to know that... 🤦‍♀️ [00:45:06] Email sre@miraheze.org [00:45:06] Could go then and ask the heads then, maybe void for a start? [00:45:10] @orduin pin for this? [00:45:19] Hmm, ok I'm trying to be calmer, Why didn't you guys try this first [00:45:22] Is there a form to apply with or do we just ask in the comment page? [00:45:23] yikes, i have decent knowledge of MW and Linux, but PHP is a weak spot [00:45:25] noted. [00:45:27] Of course, some background about you should be added. We can't just give everyone shell access [00:45:40] <.generalnuisance#0000, replying to orduin#0000> Respectfully, had you at all considered putting messaging like this out before announcing that Miraheze was sunsetting? [00:45:46] See, this is the right way to go about this. Good on you. [00:45:49] Everyone so busy right now while you all kill servers with Special:DataDump [00:45:52] Thank you to everyone at miraheze for the past six months of me not having to deal with mediawiki backend. 6 years (or 8 or something i cant remember) is a really long time to offer such a high quality service for free. Youve done the world good, and even if you shut down now, id consider miraheze a success. [00:45:53] free shell access giveaway [00:45:57] [1/3] To clarify: [00:45:57] [2/3] An NDA is needed [00:45:57] [3/3] and data protection training [00:46:01] I only know the basics of Python, web isn’t a good feat of mine. [00:46:04] There has been an active call for volunteers for years now. [00:46:05] why is an NDA needed [00:46:06] new mrbeast video just dropped [00:46:07] Might not be the best time to ask, but if I wanted to make a public sort of database that documents and compares video game ports, do you think something like a blog would suffice? [00:46:10] data protection training? [00:46:15] and an NDA requires you be 16 years old, and provide your full name and address to miraheze [00:46:16] same, i have full experience with linux (heck i daily drive it!) and im pretty good with MW, however PHP is a terrible spot for me [00:46:17] On a personal note... Y'all volunteers are a real cool crowd. Let's not all drift apart lol [00:46:19] [1/2] i'm glad void still has hope for the site. i'm very thankful. [00:46:19] [2/2] i had a bad night last night and this news isn't really helping but if people can come together to take over miraheze and save it, at least there's a hope for it [00:46:24] yeah actually [00:46:30] access to private information [00:46:34] I believe that was what was implemented by the Board [00:46:36] libera chat admins don't need an NDA [00:46:37] I love to see what everybody's up to in and outside of wiki [00:46:38] <.generalnuisance#0000, replying to orduin#0000> I'm decent with HTML and CSS but atm I'm useless with JS or PHP. I have some light MediaWiki experience but the emphasis is on LIGHT. [00:46:46] This will probably be hard for Board of Directors to hear this, but the announcement is really unclear and should communicate clearly what was the reason of the impending shutdown. It is a slap in the face otherwise. [00:47:00] Because shell access gives access to user information [00:47:05] I hate to say it but look into HostDash for private hosting. It’s relatively inexpensive and MediaWiki is easy to set up. [00:47:06] ya? so? [00:47:12] Too many volunteers left, not enough people to support the project [00:47:14] ^^^^^^^ [00:47:28] Actually, I have experience with CSS as I have plenty of it during my time as an admin on Fandkm. [00:47:33] Yeah, that's kind of my bad, I'll write a bit of an explanation on CN, and see where things go from there. [00:47:34] There are legal requirements with respect to private user information that Miraheze Ltd must respect [00:47:35] I am not talking about Discord, I am talking about the actual announcement text. [00:47:39] Well, they said staffing shortage in the chat, and everybody thinks they can run Miraheze and insists that the current/previous volunteers are all wrong [00:47:40] [1/2] If this truly was a long time coming, I think I can understand why they just wanted to be definitive. They didn't want to protract it just to have a repeat a year down the line, and were afraid of the backlash (rightfully so if this chat is any indication). [00:47:40] [2/2] They should have been honest about the reasoning, but I can't blame them. [00:47:45] <.generalnuisance#0000, replying to lichmaster98#0000> The calls for volunteers were barely visible. I don't live on Discord or Meta. The communication was really not as widespread as it could have or should have been considering the stakes [00:47:46] i don't think that requires an NDA [00:47:50] mira needs people experienced with Linux, PHP and mediawiki [00:47:54] [1/3] Requirements for NDA: [00:47:55] [2/3] - 16 years old [00:47:55] [3/3] - Provide real, full name and home address to the Board [00:47:56] What happens to Miraheze IP on dissolution? [00:48:09] Probably to ensure that people aren't tempted to disclose personal information about other users, should they stumble across it. [00:48:11] Pretty sure we don't have any trademark registered [00:48:13] I’m DevOps/SWE at a big HFT - worked with lots of linux and js, working on some php rn [00:48:16] Where did everybody miss the part that volunteers don't owe you anything? Lol [00:48:16] I am about to get a diploma in computer science, have hosted my own website since 2019, including briefly my own mediawki instance, have a reasonable but not extensive experience with php, and have a bunch of linux experience. I used to host my own pleroma instance. Would I be a good fit or am I underqualified as a volunteer? [00:48:17] I Apologize guys for being rude [00:48:21] All theycan do now is try to do it right. They should make another everyone announcement calling for volunteers. [00:48:22] I'm unqualified on the matter myself, all I can say is its Miraheze's policy [00:48:38] ^^^^ this all the way [00:48:42] Okay, nice! I'll keep that in mind following how things go with Miraheze. I'd love to help, but I don't have the skills or time needed to work in administration 😅 [00:48:44] [1/3] Welp, I can’t do anything. [00:48:44] [2/3] I’m a CS student, not a web dev one. [00:48:44] [3/3] Sorry [00:48:57] <.generalnuisance#0000> A wikipedia style "big ass banner on pages asking for for needed resources" really should have been the course of action [00:49:00] Knowledge of MediaWiki is crucial as that's what we really need right now [00:49:12] Also thisd [00:49:15] the needed resources are people, not money [00:49:18] Damn it, I wished I studied more of it. [00:49:22] i know nothing <:EpicFaceMH:912930767972225095> [00:49:23] They should retract this announcement and call for volunteers. [00:49:24] How's FOSSBots doing rn? [00:49:25] People always complain about notices [00:49:27] So lets round up the resourceful people and stuff! [00:49:32] yeah thats enough [00:49:33] kamidere may i know what your site is? you seem pretty aight [00:49:39] I can relate, I'm only starting CS for college 😭 [00:49:40] It's an understandable reaction to sudden stressful news but this means a lot to those of us who are staying to help wind things down. [00:49:48] If you could link documentation for it anywhere the announcement is made, I'm certain there are people willing to learn in order to keep Miraheze alive. [00:49:50] is that all three needed, or any of the three? also what counts as experience with mediawiki, considering everyone here presumably uses it at least a bit [00:49:52] willing to let notices slide for the sake of keeping my wiki alive [00:49:59] people complain about everything. an existential threat should be considered a bit more important i would think [00:50:01] I just think there were a lot of crucial steps skipped here is all [00:50:03] Notices are much better than the shutdown of the site though right? [00:50:06] any parts of mediawiki in particular? i’ve hosted a few local instances but will look into it as my other skillsets seem to overlap with the requirements [00:50:08] Not easy news for us either [00:50:12] or you know, face cruel extinction of meta and never see it come back ever again. [00:50:16] mediawiki experience as in the low level stuff [00:50:26] <.generalnuisance#0000, replying to lordofpipes#0000> Then ask for volunteers. Notices are annoying but they serve a purpose. People cannot help to solve a problem if they do not know one exists. [00:50:31] you are the cause [00:50:31] Annoying notice > Service abandonment [00:50:37] I hope Facebook goes extinct [00:50:41] Please refrain from these comments [00:50:50] Trueeeee [00:50:52] Is this a final outcome, or is there still a fighting chance that Miraheze can be saved? Just wondering. [00:50:54] Like, over the past year there should have been stuff like announcing needs for volunteers, maybe banners like how wikipedia does it, exhausing all other options before announcing like was done today [00:50:56] sorry wont do again [00:50:58] I do have some experience in Docker and Linux so that's a good start [00:50:58] Completely unnecessary and rude, as well as untrue to the actual cause. [00:51:17] thank you 🙂 [00:51:24] [1/2] well i unfortunately cant volunteer because i suck at technology stuff. [00:51:24] [2/2] that and I don't think my parents would appreciate me giving away personal info to folks i'm not entirely familar with😞 [00:51:26] Too many old people say otherwise. [00:51:33] Well we got someone saying some truth! [00:51:41] I obviously can't do anything because I'm not qualified, and even if I was qualified, being a volunteer isn't within my area of interest. [00:51:43] So to maybe get an idea, how many people are needed right now, there's a difference between 10 people being needed and 100, or 1,000 [00:51:46] oh my god i downloaded the data dump of my wiki... it's only 97kb lololol [00:52:03] I got over 500 pages of wiki stuff [00:52:03] i am bad at tech. i am good communication in a literal writing and talking sense. likewise with moderation [00:52:08] I'll raise the option up with Owen, given the outcry. [00:52:14] The outgoing team was about 8 people I think [00:52:23] The computer is gonna die with the amount of crap I got in my wiki, 4-5 years worth of wiki [00:52:32] <34.29cm#0000, replying to c.syde65#0000> [1/2] from my understanding the only chance is if enough people want to and are qualified to be volunteers from now [00:52:32] <34.29cm#0000, replying to c.syde65#0000> [2/2] i imagine current volunteers think the chance is slim because they were already struggling to find volunteers before [00:52:33] yeah tell em about kami and rabby [00:52:36] The team was already understaffed even prior to the recent resignations [00:52:37] So, in theory, if 8 people could come on long term, it could be saved [00:52:37] That's a terrible amount. [00:52:46] No. They were always short [00:52:52] Yeah, severely short [00:52:52] theres no way there arent 8 people who care enough to volunteer to save MH [00:52:55] Well, rn it could be more [00:53:01] Probably not. 8 people is extremely shorthanded [00:53:05] SRE has never been where it needs to be with volunteers [00:53:05] its knowledge not will that’s required [00:53:13] Care enough and have the applicable technical and related skills are two different requirements [00:53:17] People who want to volunteer, say so in #tech-community please [00:53:20] True but the specific skillset is required and that's not guaranteed [00:53:31] I would feel more safe about it if the number was at like, maybe 20. That would be more reasonable than 8, given the probable workload for this kind of project. [00:53:33] 15-20 people? Is that more realistic in terms of who’s needed? [00:53:35] well maybe could we learn how? i guess that would take time would it? [00:53:42] I'd reccomend maybe setting up a channel or form for people to apply or probe into working on Miraheze [00:53:43] Well, keep in mind that for this not to repeat, there needs to be more people. [00:53:48] Pins aren't gonna do it, you should take the last few pins and compose them into another announcement with a ping. [00:53:54] Miraheze can run on 8 people, 10-20 would be better. We've currently got 3 full SRE, and two of them are burned out. [00:53:57] It still sounds alarming compared to how things would be if Fandom and Miraheze's situations were reversed. Or if Fandom's situation rubbed off on Miraheze. [00:54:02] Will do. [00:54:04] Trust is a huge thing. Yes we can have dozens of candidates but we need to be certain they're trustworthy. We need help with Stewards, Global Sysops, System administrators, and more. [00:54:06] should we do a #volunteering channel? @orduin [00:54:24] im not going to watch from the sidelines, after reviewing my schedule i dont have time to put "volutenteering for miraheze" as a thing on my schedule [00:54:26] i will learn how to do any of it just to keep this up [00:54:29] Like, I think, and this is my take, that you guys have severely neglected calling for volunteers [00:54:39] <.generalnuisance#0000> [1/2] Cause listen. Miraheze and its volunteer staff have provided a wonderfully useful resource and for free. That is a feat. But the lack of widespread, hard to miss communication regarding this crucial matter is not ideal. Communication is hard - I get it, I'm not going to blame you all or hold contempt for it. However I am still saddened that this crucial communication wa [00:54:39] <.generalnuisance#0000> [2/2] s lacking. [00:54:41] @everyone [00:54:47] like actively calling for volunteers [00:54:53] Going to be honest, a lot of our current active Meta volunteers don't have the skillset/trust to do what's needed for GS/Steward [00:54:59] <572943#0000> o7 [00:55:02] Wait why can I not @ everyone in here @orduin [00:55:03] Same. I'm not here to volunteer, I'm here to edit. And to administrate. [00:55:03] Much more reasonable. Even more would be great so that management could develop and engineers could actually work on future projects instead of only keeping the site running [00:55:05] This is a service used by thousands of people, if not more [00:55:09] Not a clue [00:55:11] That's what mainly held us back a lot. [00:55:19] Wikipedia is super annoying about its ads and only stops being annoying about it to people who are active users, and thus already volunteering in some fashion for it [00:55:27] There's statistically a high likely hood a needed amount of people to run the service who want to [00:55:29] not Moderator/Administrator, Infra role is a role and doesn't have additional rights [00:55:29] I have the trust but not the skills. [00:55:30] Alright, I think it's time to calm down. They are listening and now taking the best steps they can to correct the situation. [00:55:35] This sort of ping should not done without clearer directions about it. [00:55:46] I don't have the interest either. [00:55:59] Wikipedia's banner ads have driven long time WP users away from the site when they started doing them [00:56:14] If people step up, Miraheze might just live on, If not, then they were right to want to shut the service down. [00:56:31] tbh i feel like this whole thing could've been avoided entirely if everyone just listened to one another lmfao [00:56:33] <.generalnuisance#0000> I think the new team should probably have a communications focused position so as to prevent this kinda thing from happening again. This kinda thing isn't sustainable for ANYONE. It's hard on users, it's hard on staff. [00:56:48] I'm going to post a list of what Miraheze needs in order to continue to operate in #tech-community. If you have questions about volunteering, see there. [00:56:49] <.generalnuisance#0000> that is, if we get a new team at all. [00:56:55] also, a corollary question to something that just occurred to me: how many of the resigned volunteers were attached to the proposed 'premium offering' project that was RFC'd a while back? [00:56:57] None of us are gonna allow it, right? [00:56:58] There was. It was Agent before he couldn't volunteer anymore [00:57:00] We did but they quit [00:57:06] @demonic.shadow is that not always the truth lol [00:57:22] [1/2] 1. No. [00:57:22] [2/2] 2. The site like Miraheze can definitely not live without those sorts of fundraising tactics. [00:57:34] Depends on if the new team can get by without letting drama jeopardise the best wiki host option there is. [00:57:38] If anything, current Miraheze fundraising was always a bit of an afterthought. [00:58:00] We were always a charity, providing free service and living off a severe shortage of people who will toil for free [00:58:02] Also depends on if there's a new team to begin with [00:58:04] [1/2] yeah lmfao. [00:58:05] [2/2] also no need to ping me 😅 [00:58:11] Sounds wise. [00:58:29] tried to reply, didnt work and pinged instead, dunno how to discord [00:59:09] I'm definitely trusted enough to be a volunteer, but I don't have the interest or the skills to be one. [00:59:14] And yet, folks still make demands of volunteers who were never obligated to do anything in the first place 🙃 [00:59:18] <.generalnuisance#0000, replying to fabled_druid#0000> [1/2] I'm going to be fully honest - I don't care. (wow that sounds a LOT harsher than I thought it would, sorry) [00:59:19] <.generalnuisance#0000, replying to fabled_druid#0000> [2/2] A project like Miraheze kinda needs to be a little bit annoying with this sort of canvassing if it wants to survive. Are notices objectively annoying? Yes. But they serve a very important purpose, in the same way your smoke detector going off over normal cooking is annoying, but you don't respond by just. not having a smoke detector [00:59:31] posted [00:59:36] why do like half of citizen sleeper OST tracks fit the ongoing event [01:00:18] Also, for people wondering about NSFW wikis: I talked to the Wikitide people, they don't plan to allow those [01:00:44] I contacted Telepedia, waiting to hear back [01:00:55] I'm sure they'll reply quite soon [01:01:11] How do I backup my wiki? Just generate and download a data dump? [01:01:15] [1/3] look i dont pop in often and i care solely about ensuring the wiki i created here stays alive one way or another, but i literally give 0 shits about what yall do behind the scenes or in front of the scenes unless it impacts the survival of the service. as i see it now the volunteers are just dropping the project like a hot cake over disagreements on stuff that shouldnt even be [01:01:15] [2/3] a public issue anyway. whats the point of trusting a team that splits apart at every moment? 'this has happened before' and 'it will be fine' are truly copium words in the face of huge management issues [01:01:16] [3/3] and no do not @ me im just here to express my extreme disappointment over the recent developments as a lurker who checks in on updates very rarely [01:01:19] Yes [01:01:26] Why do people even want to have NSFW wikis? NSFW content in general is painful to look at. [01:01:29] OK Thanks [01:01:52] maybe to you, but not to everyone [01:01:56] ...take a guess 🫠 [01:02:00] I'm quite concerned about Miraheze's future. [01:02:02] I don't understand how anyone can like that stuff. [01:02:18] Cause I'm the kind of nerd who wants to make "TVtropes but for niche fetish stories" [01:02:19] But unfortunately a lot of people seem to. [01:02:21] your posting is also painful to look at but here you are [01:02:26] Thankfully, there's lot of time left before Miraheze winds down [01:02:27] ....ouch [01:02:29] oooo [01:02:30] There's an entire self hosted wiki dedicated to ah... Adult stars lol [01:02:34] I am sure books can be written about stuff you don't understand [01:02:40] it's safe to delet my wiki's existing data dumps to make room for new ones, right? [01:02:42] Eh? [01:02:49] How do I back up my mediafiles? [01:02:51] should be [01:03:06] Time to localhost my notes wiki :p [01:03:16] There doesn't seem to be a dump option for media files [01:03:18] You'd be surprised, but again, if it involves children, then yes, there's a CLEAR problem with that. [01:03:25] It's only on Miraheze because I was too lazy to set up MW one day [01:03:34] You have to make a request in the [[Stewards' noticeboard]] [01:03:34] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Stewards%27_noticeboard [01:03:34] [01:03:43] OK [01:03:43] Use All The Tropes instead! It's on Miraheze! [01:04:05] They don't allow NSFW content- believe me, I asked [01:04:07] I thought [[phab:]]? [01:04:07] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/phab: [01:04:08] Oh, hey Labster. [01:04:08] [01:04:25] Oh right! Out of curiosity, where y'all going after this? [01:04:31] Several image dump requests are on the Stewards' noticeboard already [01:04:40] Oh [01:04:40] love how we went from fighting each other to actually teaming up (sorta) to discussing nsfw wikis lmfao [01:04:44] I actually already have my niche fetish tropes wiki up & running here on Miraheze anyway [01:05:00] (If you wanna know more we should probably take it to DMs) [01:05:12] 🥲 [01:05:23] Yeah, it's really funny how we all got there, eh? [01:05:27] @ing you: this is the nature of community-run projects, especially if they are controlled by a small circle of people. People have conflicts, they can sadly have them in public. I think this notice should not have been as harsh in its wording etc., but yeah. [01:05:29] Last time admins had a meeting on Monday, we decided to stay here. We'll need a new meeting obviously. I don't think it's important to act too fast. Nothing unpredictable happened today, just that it happened today. [01:05:46] only because naleksuh is gone [01:05:52] Children are like animate dolls. Animate dolls are supposed to be nurtured. Not stared at. [01:06:20] Children are dolls? Gross [01:06:28] You know what I mean. [01:06:36] That doesn't change anything lol [01:06:47] i am actually specifically making efforts to avoid even remotely trying to understand what you meant [01:07:10] ....i dont know if i like this analogy [01:07:12] Dehumanization doesn't have interpretation [01:07:18] I don't mean to be that guy, but how the fuck did this sentence spawn out of the current events [01:07:19] If 3 people are running things as indicated in https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Board/Policies/20230607-Minutes, not hard to see how 3 people can give up. [01:07:34] honestly this entire chat has been a rollercoaster [01:07:38] We've basically no Stewards or SRE team left [01:07:57] <[LS]#8872> Aint no fucking WAY the first time in my life I decide to make a wiki, the host announces a pending deprecation THE VERY NEXT DAY [01:08:15] I can't see any verification, What should I do? [01:08:15] <[LS]#8872> The fucking odds... [01:08:30] <34.29cm#0000> Thanks for taking our criticisms and suggestions into consideration. Even if things don't work out in the end, it will be a lot less frustrating knowing we tried our best [01:08:34] People dont think it be lile it is. But it do [01:08:39] Is there any way Miraheze can be saved? [01:08:40] If you don't understand what I said or the intention behind it then I'm afraid I can't help. So maybe we should just move on. [01:09:01] <[LS]#8872, replying to gelid_lagopus#0000> Someone steps up to the plate and is willing to host [01:09:17] <[LS]#8872> thats the only way it seems [01:09:25] Current team is 2 board members, 3 SRE (4 if you count Agent), and 1 Steward. Since I am a member of all three groups, that's 4 people total running the project right now. [01:09:26] There's plans ot see if they can recruit new high level volunteers to take over. There's a discussion in #tech-community right now [01:09:47] Thankfully, there's some time before everything goes kaput, so it's not a total mad scramble [01:09:48] Never give up man. [01:09:54] bit late for that [01:09:58] rip [01:09:59] What are the odds Miraheze is saved? [01:10:02] #announcements [01:10:21] > As such, I am willing to discuss a handover of responsibilities if a new team of infrastructure and MediaWiki engineers can be assembled before the end of August. To those who are interested in this endeavor, please join the discussion in ⁠tech-community [01:10:33] in which void specifically mentions wanting to step away. we are past the giving up process [01:10:36] not counting Agent since they've resigned [01:10:47] Agent resigned as well? [01:10:55] I did [01:11:01] <[LS]#8872, replying to darkmatterman4500#0000> moving on =/= giving up [01:11:03] That was fast [01:11:18] also the gradual reveal of the sheer number of volunteers that left in a short timeframe suggests more critical underpinning problems [01:11:32] Everybody here claims they can sit on the board, claim management, join SRE, and run the corporation. Yet, they don't seem to understand the legal requirements for a board seat, technical requirements for SRE/management, and the amount that volunteers gave and sacrificed to Miraheze. The devaluation of volunteer contributions during this chat is very sad [01:11:52] from what i have been able to put together i don't think there's a future for it without complete turnover. and who wants to inherit a project with no institutional knowledge but all of its bindings? [01:11:59] 'they' <:EyesEmoji:980231120530591825> [01:12:17] Yes, we were all disappointed with the Trust and Safety decision which was sort of the last straw as everyone already thought we had a deeply broken system anyhow [01:12:26] Something tells me you didn't read my comment at all and assumed I was saying that moving on was the same as that. [01:12:32] this was an avoidable failure, but once you've hit the wall it's a bit harder to undo [01:12:38] What [01:12:40] True. [01:12:52] @paladox? [01:12:59] Well, now I feel a bit better having mostly fiddled with my CSS instead of moving content, though rest in pepperonis to Miraheze: you survived db141 but alas, volunteer starvation hit you o7 [01:13:09] Yes Owen should allow data protection to be violated because the community liked the user in question so many times! [01:13:12] Aight where the nerds at to save us? [01:13:19] #tech-community [01:13:26] I'm an autist, can I have be the cool life coach to give them cool spiritual boosting/morale to keep going? [01:13:28] If the fucking godamn user did as they were told they wouldn’t have been godamn banned [01:13:31] survived the nuclear blast only to die to dehydration [01:13:36] Last time I checked? I was told Miraheze is doing fine financially. [01:13:37] <[LS]#8872> [1/2] @agentisai @orduin @Juwi @EveryoneThatHasContributedToTheMirahezeProject [01:13:37] <[LS]#8872> [2/2] Thank You for your service to Open Source as a whole <3 [01:13:40] Oh so now we "do as we're told"? [01:13:53] please dont start this again [01:13:54] oh god here we go again [01:13:57] sorry, I didn't realize this was a dictatorship [01:14:02] This issue does not currently seem useful to rehash [01:14:03] What [01:14:05] ??? [01:14:12] Start what? [01:14:19] arguing [01:14:19] [1/2] Wholly with kindness, you don't need a corporate position for that :-) [01:14:19] [2/2] Please do! Your encouragement and advice would and will always be welcome [01:14:20] Yes, we do not need to rehash week old drama [01:14:26] that's what happens when you take on responsibilities, though. 'the service dies' is quite literally the worst outcome and one that volunteers are specifically empowered to work to prevent. when you get there it will always become an exploration of flaws and failings, not virtues and successes [01:14:26] <[LS]#8872, replying to b.wm#0000> calm down. no need to grab the pitchforks. [01:14:31] 💀 [01:14:32] Can we get a Thank You channel, for thank you messages to the admin team for their hard work? [01:14:39] yeah [01:14:43] Yeh a team member got caught, Owen decided to try and resolve it diplomatically telling them they had to do x.y. They didn’t and so he took action [01:14:45] no amount of finances can avoid complete loss in trust of leadership, and that's what i'm seeing [01:14:46] <[LS]#8872, replying to questchan#0000> Fr [01:15:12] This isn't gonna solve anything. We already know of this current situation. [01:15:25] If you want us to be law breakers you’ve come to the wrong place [01:15:34] I will ask again we not rehash an issue the community is unable to have the full information too as its a T&S decision and likely under some NDA/legal restrictions. [01:15:34] [1/2] Are you aware of the specifics? Because as far as I know that information is supposed to be restricted to Board only. [01:15:34] [2/2] But will let this drop as it isn't helping. Just would advise against all this again because it's pretty fucking stupid to defend the decision [01:15:36] They quit, lightly mentioned a user who they had an IBAN with and got booted off. It was rather blunt, you must admit [01:15:46] well if you happen to have a time machine that would be a very useful solution [01:15:51] I’ve got the same information as you [01:16:04] Law breakers??? [01:16:07] Let's please stop rehashing the Raidarr drama. Thanks [01:16:26] Thanks! [01:16:43] also didn't know there was legal stuff and that MH was a corporation. That's a surprise. [01:17:00] In fact, why don't we all stop talking about this? It's getting us absolutely nowhere. [01:17:15] let's discuss productivity [01:17:17] this is exactly what i was talking about earlier, though: to me this is not "rehashing". this is something i had to dig around just to discover anything about when it is apparently a vital key to the puzzle of why the collapse is happening [01:17:30] <[LS]#8872, replying to Reven#1051> Whenever money is involved, theres usually some sort of organization. [01:17:33] or something useful instead of regular old bullshit that no one will agree on [01:17:50] prior to about 30 minutes ago i did not know anything about any of this [01:17:55] pants or shorts guys [01:17:57] @Labster trying not to make #tech-community off topic, and feel free to dm instead, but any plans for ATT if Miraheze shuts down? assuming you're still involved there [01:18:02] <[LS]#8872, replying to b.wm#0000> Anybody know any Mira Alternatives? [01:18:11] Let alone even care about. What's done is done. [01:18:15] WikiTide, ShoutWiki, Fandom [01:18:27] If you're taking strictly productivity, status quo is ensure your data is backed up by August 31. If your talking revival of the project, then 🤷‍♂️ [01:18:27] There is no alternative [01:19:01] We will buy a private island and move ATT there, building our own tax shelter out of spare tropes. [01:19:03] https://meta.wikitide.com/wiki/WikiTide is this. wikitide?? was this created today [01:19:09] Wait [01:19:16] A few days ago [01:19:20] ah okay [01:19:28] Assuming we go through with winding down operations, we'd still plan on having backups available well after the end of August. [01:19:29] I want to be clear here: There are alternatives. Whether they are suitable for your wiki is up to you. We can't decide for you. [01:19:30] <34.29cm#0000> Could you consider adding the recent statements about the last-ditch attempt to bring attention to current vacancies to the announcements that were made on Mastodon, Twitter, Facebook? idk if it's okay for me to ping someone for this suggestion [01:19:42] Are you sure about that? :/ [01:19:44] But for reals I need to discuss with other admins. [01:19:50] Yup [01:19:56] Hey guys so should I request the datadump as xml or managewiki_backup btw? [01:20:03] some will say it's suitable, some won't. but we shouldn't lie and say there aren't alternatives [01:20:12] It was the ethical thing to do. Before Miraheze Ltd was created, John personally held Miraheze funds for like 5-6 years [01:20:14] 😦 I'm not involved in Miraheze in general anymore or any specific issues but I hope ATT and DoL wiki end up with a home [01:20:42] ATT been around since orain(?) i hope it finds a home [01:20:47] they will [01:21:01] Is Miraheze shutting down completely [01:21:06] "is this fandom/wikia 3.0 or miraheze 2.0" 💀 https://meta.wikitide.com/wiki/User:RENATO_THE_CRACK_OFICIAL [01:21:07] And how exactly do you know that? [01:21:20] At this moment, eventually [01:21:20] Obviously Labster will just self-host ATT if needed ;P [01:21:42] jesus [01:21:43] Can Wiki Tide host private wikis? [01:21:54] ATT community has the determination and know-how to sustain themselves independently if it comes to it [01:21:59] Yes, it can. [01:22:02] oh, it uses the forge discord. so, this is exactly what i thought - the "premium offering" was actually the first cracks showing through [01:22:20] Forge discord? [01:22:22] TideWiki privacy policyh and terms of use "coming soon" [01:22:25] How do I request an image sump? [01:22:27] <:SUS:1084373465324322876> [01:22:30] wikitide's front page discord link goes to the wikiforge discord [01:22:32] That's legally dubious lol [01:22:39] [[Stewards' Noticeboard]] [01:22:39] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Stewards%27_Noticeboard [01:22:40] [01:22:47] Ohhh. Uh. Not looking good for WikiTide now. D: [01:22:58] https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/741945274901200897/1067892011534917754/IMG_2106.gif [01:23:02] so, essentially, that RFC was one big bill of false goods that should have been read as the beginning of the end [01:23:05] <34.29cm#0000> WikiTide was created this June, it's almost impossible to judge [01:23:07] I mean to be fair 99% of websites are legally dubious, and for the most part unless you have a lot of users and/or tick off the wrong legal expert, they usually don't get in trouble [01:23:08] Wait, what? [01:23:19] i would not trust wikitide at all knowing this [01:23:25] And it takes time to write up legal things [01:23:25] I've seen a lot of personal websites and websites dedicated to games or guilds / small communities etc that never have any legal stuff posted [01:23:26] Nope, it’s pretty possible to judge [01:23:58] My recommendation: do not use WikiTide unless you are asking for data protection issues. [01:24:07] Is it free? [01:24:20] mfw i look at Special:ListAdmins on WikiTide .... <:sus_Stare:975450167274786896> [01:24:28] Those sure are some familiar names. [01:24:31] What the fuck does this even mean. That we don't take data protection seriously? [01:24:38] Yes [01:24:44] [1/2] Well... after all of that... I'm just shocked. Absolutely shocked that all of the work that was invested into making Miraheze the best platform out there was all just thrown away. All gone in the span of a few weeks. [01:24:45] [2/2] Words can't describe how frustrated I am. [01:24:58] I mean, the linked Discord is for a completely different wikifarm, the privacy policy and terms of use are "coming soon" when that's normally one of the first things finalized for a service like this, the service itself is still fairly small... basically it's just a little too untrustworthy right now for my tastes. :/ [01:25:02] That Abuse filter guy is kinda sus [01:25:15] I see. [01:25:17] <34.29cm#0000, replying to paladox#0000> [1/2] Where is that information available? As a Wiki admin looking for a platform to move to, it's difficult to judge, compared to platforms we're already familiar with. [01:25:18] <34.29cm#0000, replying to paladox#0000> [2/2] They don't even look to be listed on here? [01:25:42] I am trynna request an image dump for my wiki and it is telling me to fill out a captcha but isn’t giving me one [01:25:44] Then what other wiki hosting sites do you suggest? [01:25:51] it's brand-new [01:25:52] So I have a big amount of custom css, do DataDumps cover that at all? I guess worst case scenario I could try my luck copypasting it but just wanting to check in. [01:26:08] Miraheze was Special? There isn’t really an alternative to it [01:26:11] Basically everyone who left Miraheze went straight to WikiTide [01:26:15] Tbf Wikitide couldn't even develop a ToS or privacy policy before opening sooo [01:26:27] we're moving to wikitide? [01:26:32] I may have to transfer my Kirby Wiki onto another wiki site. [01:26:50] Can anyone help? [01:26:51] <2x2Master#4200> It's polcompover sigh [01:26:54] MediaWiki is so easy to self-host [01:27:00] with what is going down, do we have permision to begin migrating wikis to other services, like Fandom? [01:27:07] It’s asking me to fill out a captcha but doesn’t give me one [01:27:08] not everyone uses windows [01:27:10] You can do what you want [01:27:11] I am going to self-host my wiki and I can host wikis as a commission. [01:27:11] It's a great learning experience if you feel you don't know how [01:27:17] and yet wikitide is attached to wikiforge which was originally proposed as a 'premium offering' for miraheze. that suggests some extremely unkind motivations and that all this drama is just a smokescreen of excuses [01:27:19] You've always had permission 😛 [01:27:20] Is WikiTube free for making private wikis? Or is it behind a paywall [01:27:28] Free [01:27:28] can they come back? If not, can’t we all migrate to WikiTide? or am I missing something? ^^ [01:27:29] You’ve never need permission to migrate… [01:27:31] test https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discord#WikiAuthBot [01:27:43] [01:27:53] Nice [01:27:53] This is not Wikitide support channel [01:28:00] sigh once again, shitting on other sites isn't gonna help miraheze for christ sakes [01:28:11] i wouldn't trust wikitide to not yank up the ladder at some point if they were willing to abandon another service to death [01:28:12] I'm trying to find a alternative for Miraheze here since its shutting down [01:28:15] I'm very close to the point of installing MediaWiki for people for free assuming they already have the server [01:28:41] True [01:28:43] just help miraheze instead /s [01:28:44] isn't just literally installing apache and a mysql or mariadb and done [01:28:48] [1/2] all i can say is [01:28:48] [2/2] miraheze get ya shit together [01:28:53] ? [01:29:03] I looked at y'all's config. About had a stroke. I'm not good for much lmfao [01:29:17] Oh trust me same, and I used to work with it 😄 [01:29:29] can you host your own wiki just on a pc or do you need to buy a physical server? [01:29:30] ManageWiki and CreateWiki make my brain hurt [01:29:41] Local settings.php for one wiki, I'm fine. Shared DBs, sure! Table prefix, heck yeah! Miraheze config, ouch! [01:29:43] you need a server if you want it to be public. [01:29:43] CreateWiki is a mess, don't even get me started [01:29:50] you can host on your pc, if your intention is to keep it to yourself [01:30:08] [1/2] for public, you need a server [01:30:08] [2/2] and I think the best option is definitely a droplet on DigitalOcean [01:30:25] [1/2] maybe 2 Gigs of ram if you just want a simple wiki [01:30:26] [2/2] 4 for more [01:30:30] Would recommend DO or Vultr as VM hosts, personally [01:30:36] apparently you can host mediawiki on replit https://replit.com/@magicAho/InfoBox?v=1 [01:30:38] (assuming vultr still exists, lol) [01:30:48] oh ye, I never used Vultr [01:30:50] its a private one. i use it on my desk and laptop but im willing to switch to just using my desktop [01:30:51] It is asking me to fill out a captcha and not giving me a captcha [01:31:10] I still use @agent suggested host because they have a data center right near where I live :-) [01:31:35] Wishosting is nice, I recommend them [01:31:55] I think they might not be able to handle the influx of new clients if everybody goes there tho tbh [01:32:18] It's also worth noting that Wishosting is kinda a "no support" style host [01:32:18] Help I can’t submit an image dump. It is making me fill out a captcha and not giving me the captcha [01:32:23] [1/2] and, personally speaking, if you just want a wiki where it's just you, nobody else, and you don't do much things in it [01:32:23] [2/2] I think you might not even need a wiki? [01:32:39] there's a lot of static site generators with markdown support, and no need for database [01:32:53] Any good way to start that? I'm up for trying to self host, even if it is offline to start with, and I'm not sure where to start off, though currently I'm looking at Docker [01:33:01] Almost every hosting service has one [01:33:04] Not a viable solution for any production-level website, if you were pointing with this intention. [01:33:07] @paladox Hi friend [01:33:19] Wishosting? [01:33:44] If Miraheze ends up with not enough volunteers and shuts down before the end of the year, I guess I'll give paid hosting a try for my own wiki. I'm between MyWikis and HostDash-with-MediaWiki, leaning more towards MyWikis tbh. [01:33:45] the wiki editing syntax is what im used to, and ive got no clue how to transfer over all my stuff from wikimedia to something else (or if its possible to do automatically) [01:33:49] <.phoenix1#0000, replying to chaoraiser256#0000> what OS? for windows i use xampp. keep in mind anything self hosted will be slow though. are you serving to the public? if so you'd need to port forward, and website will go down whenever your computer is off [01:33:49] [1/2] I think Docker is better if your intention is to move the wiki somewhere else eventually [01:33:50] [2/2] but on Windows at least, I think you can download XAMPP and follow the instructions on MW.org [01:33:59] Obsidian is a great local markdown solution I've been playing with locally. More for documents (if you are a writer/worldbuilder), but some folks might find it interesting. [01:34:08] On Linux, and not public to start with [01:34:35] Obsidian is great 😛 my dad found it randomly and we both use it at work for personal notes [01:34:41] Then I'll see what my options are if Miraheze doesn't improve anytime soon. [01:34:49] only annoying thing is links to 'pages' break if you have multiple files (in different folders) with the same name [01:35:27] Hugo is also another good option IMO [01:35:47] You should just be able to install Apache/Nginx, PHP, SQL, and MediaWiki straight on your system then [01:35:50] and it's Golang, automatically based [01:36:15] LocalHost on Linux is worlds easier than any other system really [01:36:17] Hugo??? [01:37:03] This is all pretty sad to see, ngl [01:37:19] to think a week ago i started recommending that people start using this to sort out character lore and stuff bc it was fun and neat to have a wiki looking thing for OCs and it was the best working one. my disappointment cannot even be summed up in a singular word after all that work [01:37:32] yes it is also hi again don't h8 me [01:37:52] ^^ [01:38:27] Welcome aboard [01:38:31] I feel you there 😭 I’ve created so many character and worldbuilding pages for my story. [01:38:45] This probably comes as a surprise to most people not active on meta, which I think is unfortunate to say the least.. some people active on meta, myself included, probably thought this was a possibility.. but it's still very sad 😦 [01:39:05] i shoulda realized what was going on after the wikiforge rfc [01:39:20] [1/3] i'm not as active here as I used to be [01:39:20] [2/3] but still very sad to me [01:39:20] [3/3] after all, it was with MH that I started my wiki "Journey" [01:39:24] i only pop in very occasionally to see what's going on and that should have been a far redder flag than it was [01:39:28] The way that this was announced is... hm. >> I mean the minutes have been added to the wiki on a separate page but was there even any announcement besides discord? [01:39:31] honestly before miraheze my worlds and i barely wrote at all... [01:39:41] far beyond just miraheze now [01:39:56] [[CN]] and Twitter, haven't been able to do anything else yet [01:39:56] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/CN [01:39:57] [01:40:00] Board statement is on-wiki, but contains as little information as possible. [01:40:41] What is this situation? ? Is it according to #announcements ? [01:40:56] Miraheze is shutting down in a few months [01:41:13] <.labster#0000> People are considering if we can still save things with more volunteers. Right now we're talking about recruiting tech volunteers over in #tech-community . [01:41:30] Oh I migrate all of my Wikis I’m leaving this Wiki hosting service to and migrating to WikiTide [01:42:03] [1/2] https://discord.com/channels/407504499280707585/407504500136607745/1119070428246331533 [01:42:04] [2/2] So if you get enough volunteers the site stays up? Im confused [01:42:15] Yes [01:42:16] Thank you for short answer...and that's.... I cant describe in words [01:42:40] is it a volunteer problem or a budgeting problem? impression i got from the announcement is that they just ran out of money [01:42:46] <.labster#0000> The current staff seems like they are burnt out on the state of affairs, and thought they didn't have enough technical volunteers to continue. So it might be possible to save things. [01:42:58] If new volunteers take the project and successfully run it, it may stick around. The old guard will be gone. If a new team steps up, it will be whatever they can do [01:43:01] <34.29cm#0000, replying to lordgalvatronmc#0000> [1/2] tl;dr: "yes but good luck with that." [01:43:01] <34.29cm#0000, replying to lordgalvatronmc#0000> [2/2] for now let's ~spread the word~ and appreciate both that this option is being explored and that people are offering to help at all [01:43:04] <.labster#0000> There is plenty of money. [01:43:10] It’s Joever [01:43:23] ic ic [01:43:28] There's nobody measuring or dictating success. It's the old group saying "I am leaving" and if a new team takes their place, so be it [01:43:33] how does one export a whole wiki, images and all? [01:43:39] I’m Bidone [01:43:43] i believe in the new republic 🫡 [01:44:11] <[LS]#8872, replying to b.wm#0000> bet [01:44:16] Special:DataDump for the text (via XML export). [[Stewards' Noticeboard]] to request an image dump [01:44:16] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Stewards%27_Noticeboard [01:44:16] [01:44:28] Bizarre that this is left out of the announcement [01:44:32] I do got those now, though I'm still not really sure how to get started there [01:44:33] Money is still an issue, but the reason for this announcement was some internal conflicts. [01:44:51] it says i have to delete my existing dump but it wont let me delete it [01:45:00] Hey to the person who suggested WikidPad for taking notes wiki-style: I platonically love you, I was looking for something like that for a small WIP worldbuilding/TODO... thing so TY for pointing me that way earlier during the before-slow-mode bit. [01:45:03] Probably because you can google [[Dumps]] yourself [01:45:03] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Dumps [01:45:04] [01:45:09] <.labster#0000, replying to thelevking#0000> Money is always an issue in a non-profit. [01:45:16] ah, sadly only admins can get the dump on this wiki [01:45:35] I'd recommend trying again in a day or two. Miraheze isn't going anywhere in the next day or two and the servers are probably overloaded with wiki dump requests 🙂 [01:47:19] <[LS]#8872, replying to neoqwerty#0000> FUCK thats an old screenshot [01:48:28] an internet fossil [01:48:40] <[LS]#8872> mfw I have to compile from source bc no binary [01:49:06] With the news going on, I want to take precautions. So... please help suggest me a free, no-ad wiki farm that can suit video game info (since I dislike Fandom). I prefer not to pay to avoid potential conflict of interest, since all I'm doing there is just a hobby done in free time, not for profit reasons. [01:49:35] <[LS]#8872, replying to tiredblupi#0000> bonus points if its open source [01:49:41] WikiTide to be honest [01:49:42] if you want a trustworthy one, there are none right now. [01:49:54] Notion is a modern alternative for those looking for personal wiki-style note-taking. It's not a good MediaWiki-alternative, but for simple uses it does the job. [01:50:04] wikitide is staffed by people with a clear and obvious hand in killing miraheze, so trust that at your own peril. [01:50:16] Isn't ShoutWiki paid? [01:50:20] <[LS]#8872, replying to Ash#7198> explain [01:50:45] I personally mostly use it for notes (because I've never been able to find a decent note-taking app that ticks all of my boxes) and for tracking more sophisticated tasks. Because one guy needs a kanban board. [01:50:49] <34.29cm#0000> [1/3] [01:50:49] <34.29cm#0000> [2/3] shoutwiki is free [01:50:50] <34.29cm#0000> [3/3] idk if wikitide is free+ad free like Miraheze? [01:50:59] I heavily second Notion. I use it for almost anything that does not have a need to be viewed publicly. That said, Notion actually can display content publicly [01:51:11] tl;dr: this shutdown is because of overwhelming resignation of volunteers. these volunteers largely went to wikitide. wikitide is attached to wikiforge, which was originally proposed as a 'premium offering'.. for miraheze. there are a number of other smaller events along the way but i see a picture i do not like [01:51:14] I guess you're right. Fits with Miraheze's historically abysmal level of communication [01:51:21] isnt shoutwiki rarely updated? [01:51:28] Notion functions as a database, rather than as a page [01:51:43] i see zero reason to trust any of these people if they were willing to take such actions knowingly in pursuit of a profit-driven arm [01:51:51] Be the change you want to see in the world. Add that link to [[CN]] [01:51:51] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/CN [01:51:51] [01:51:58] Everything is basically an object related to something else [01:52:44] I already made some progress making an alternative wiki with better layout and proper citations unlike an existing one in Fandom, not knowing of the current drama, so this is really disappointing. [01:52:49] this tl;dr is wrong at least in one thing: this seems to be related to an internal conflict over a global ban of one user, not to the premium offering [01:53:01] can only admins get image and datadumps of wikis? can users not take action? [01:53:13] to be clear my current hypothesis is that that was the straw that broke the camel's back but not in and of itself the tipping point [01:53:21] <34.29cm#0000, replying to nyxem#1345> i'm seeing contradicting responses to that [01:53:22] users cant take action im pretty sure [01:53:26] rip [01:53:38] i find a lot of the behavior around that extremely suspect and uncharacteristic upon research. i think any excuse would have sufficed for some of them [01:53:40] I prefer not to have ads. I already had enough bad perception of ads thanks to Fandom. [01:53:52] Yes, you need to get an administrator. Good news is that this is not urgent and you can take your time. [01:54:00] <34.29cm#0000> miraheze was the only adfree option, at least according to this list [01:54:34] im kind of curious: if everyone quit who's giving us the imagedumps? 🤔 [01:54:54] the air [01:54:56] The ad-free and trustworthy one imo. WikiForge/WikiTide are suspect in a lot of regards right now. They might grow into bigger and better services, but right now it just feels too risky to go with either of them. [01:54:58] the RFC preceded this outburst by over a month, and wikiforge was clearly well in progress by that point as it was soft launched in late may, again preceding the T&S actions [01:55:24] in short: i think this was always one of the potential plans from the beginning [01:55:34] Can we stop with the speculation [01:55:38] Please do not share your conspiracy theories here. [01:56:04] "Assume good faith" is one of the fundamental principles of wikis and, unless proven otherwise, it should be applied here as well. [01:56:09] Even as that timeline may be so, the distrust, disinterest, and general negativity toward the culture has been longstanding for years [01:56:41] same [01:57:06] Why am I not surprised that WikiForge is a paid version of WikiTide? <:EyesEmoji:980231120530591825> [01:57:09] You have been given the reasons for why the decisions have been made, any further theories that arent backed by evidence is not helpful and is disruptive. Now, please refrain from spouting speculative statements. Thank you. [01:57:40] evidence has been in awful short supply ever since the statement was made, but so be it [01:57:53] what [01:58:25] [1/2] I have maybe a dumb question, which shows exactly what I know about Mediawiki (nada): [01:58:25] [2/2] Is there a way to have a mediawiki running locally, like I can do with loose HTML files? [01:58:48] Its not as simple as that, but you can run mediawiki locally yes [01:59:03] I do it all the time with XAMPP [01:59:15] This was linked by someone earlier https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Installing_MediaWiki [01:59:34] I believe there's also a way with WSL, and possibly just normal Windows OS but I've never ventured that far [01:59:36] containerize everything 👍 [01:59:50] 🦦 [02:00:13] there's a docker image if you dont want to mess with your local [02:01:36] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Software_bundles#MediaWiki_stacks_(MediaWiki-bundled-with-AMP) [02:02:22] It was supposed to be the paid counterpart of Miraheze but that never happened \:( [02:02:32] Bitnami used to do a standalone executable for Windows [02:02:52] <.labster#0000, replying to agentisai#0000> Why didn’t it happen? [02:03:05] Community consensus rejection wasn't it [02:03:23] I believe the community did not want to be associated with a paid service [02:04:25] I tried to check out WikiTide but nothing came out on my search engine results. I know there are some potential risks, but at least I want to learn about the wiki farm itself first. [02:04:26] community consensus was actually majority positive [02:04:32] Wish I actually knew like any backend stuff [02:04:40] Surprisingly, the community overwhelmingly voted to make WF the premium counterpart to Miraheze; however, I believe that no talks with the Board ever occured, and CosmicAlpha/Universal Omega eventually resigned from Miraheze [02:04:48] Guess not. I was wrong about that part. There was rejection somewhere [02:04:58] Because my lack of knowledge about it is making this 5x harder than it would’ve been [02:05:17] <.me_#0000> do yall have any recs for alternative hosts outside of self-hosting? [02:05:34] I still don't get what the resistance to self-hosting is [02:05:34] WikiTide is an alternative if Miraheze shuts down [02:05:57] my wiki is too big for my computer, [02:06:01] the only visible rejection seems to be that they decided they wanted to push ahead immediately. whether that was instead of following procedure or a change of mind, can't tell [02:06:24] Self host = buy web hosting, not host on your own PC [02:06:31] If you don't mind paid hosting, MyWikis seems to be one of the better options? Also some general web-hosting services will also have options specifically for MediaWiki, like HostDash does. [02:06:32] There is a time commitment to self-hosting [02:06:37] i dont have the money for paid hosting 😭 [02:06:47] There's web hosting that will run MediaWiki for $1/month [02:06:51] I think I have the money for self hosting but not the [02:07:06] will it do it for 1 dollar when i have like 9000 pages [02:07:08] Like, there's options, and most of these projects aren't hundreds or thousands of users [02:07:31] Depends what kind of storage limits are on the DBs for the plan. Images are another question [02:07:53] there are also many images... i dont have a job to pay for this kind of thing yet :/ [02:07:56] I’ll def opt for web hosting [02:08:19] Potential conflict of interest for me. Since I fear it'll be seen like running a separate business, and I'm not allowed to according to my job's contract. [02:08:46] ok sick of slowmode [02:08:59] I also just don’t have any knowledge of PHP SQL+ or any of that [02:09:07] There's no way for it to be a conflict of interest unless you make an income from it [02:09:30] <.labster#0000> We need nontechnical roles as well [02:09:36] [1/2] oh yeah i dont understand the code stuff either [02:09:36] [2/2] go ahead and link those cheap hosts though cuz i dont know what ones ur talking abt [02:09:46] I guess so. But I'm still paranoid about it. [02:09:54] People don't know about options, so they understandably think that it is hard to do. If you want, you can create some sort of migration guide for people, but it's not weird that people think it is hard. [02:10:07] <.labster#0000> Conflict of interest can result from in-kind contributions of services as well [02:10:35] I’ve gotta sleep on this [02:11:12] <.labster#0000> Everyone should sleep on this, except a few of us [02:11:14] Not to mention I don't want to tie my real identity via payment info (unless there's some other way?). I want to separate my internet hobby and real life. [02:11:24] Yes, assuming the contributions result in an advantage for that business over the one you are contracted with [02:11:32] there has to be some sort of demonstrable impact [02:12:01] [1/2] Thank you very much for this. [02:12:02] [2/2] Sad to say though this is all FAR above my knowledge. ;u; [02:12:14] same! <:sunglacry:827230099827982336> <:sunglacry:827230099827982336> <:sunglacry:827230099827982336> [02:12:34] I barely can do relative paths in HTML without constantly googling to figure out what I did wrong this time [02:12:45] Hmm unfortunately it seems the major hosts have increased prices in recent years [02:12:57] it used to be some of the ones like Hostinger would do $1 hosting [02:13:05] <.labster#0000> Inflation hit everyone. Especially energy in Europe. [02:13:07] Offtopic, but I'm getting 500 errors. Is this the end already? [02:13:14] Getting them too [02:13:19] Servers probably just overloaded with all the activity [02:13:22] <.labster#0000> No, 500 errors are totally normal at Miraheze. [02:13:24] Regardless, I'm still seeing $2 and $3 monthly hosting [02:13:28] miraheze is always laggy and giving errors dw about it tbh. [02:13:48] I might just go for a paid wiki host that’s got similar stuff to mira [02:13:51] Find a web host with cpanel access and softaculous, that'll normally include 1-click installs of MediaWiki [02:14:24] Sorry for asking again, but what's the website for WikiTide? I can't find it with search engine. Just curious. [02:14:32] wikitide.com [02:14:44] Softaculous makes MW stupid easy if you have no tech background [02:15:06] Alright, I’ll consider it [02:15:19] Thank you. A Wikitude thing kept clogging up my search. [02:15:31] I got WikiTude constantly too lol [02:16:01] Wikitude… that sounds concerning lol [02:16:19] Haha. Anyway, I'll try to settle there for the time being. If I can find somewhere better, I'll move stuff again. [02:16:25] I kept getting Wikitude and wikitIDE. [02:16:27] I use https://brixly.uk/unlimited-web-hosting/ fwiw, and the folx there are really helpful [02:16:31] Hi everybody! [02:17:08] And you can one-click install MediaWiki [02:17:58] Do they accept international currency [02:18:47] Oh they might not, but there's 100s of web hosts just like them [02:19:18] It's such a common offering, normally quite cheap, you just need to do a little bit of the configuration [02:19:41] Almost all web hosts have a US$5/month plan [02:20:03] And there are still some yet that are even cheaper [02:20:13] tbh ive been looking it up for other reasons and most ive seen are more like 10/month [02:20:52] MediaWiki really doesn't take much to run (for a small/low traffic site) [02:20:53] Depends what hosts you're looking at. Most of those are also overkill for a single wiki MW install [02:21:20] If you're image heavy, look at storage space more than RAM or CPU [02:21:20] Okay so to summarize so I stop scratching in vain at concrete: A local install of Mediawiki on my computer that's not online at all would need a VM, am I understanding this correctly? [02:21:57] No. Depends on your OS, but for the most part you can just use XAMPP out of a local directory on your PC [02:22:21] Windows 10, and I have 0 knowledge of PHP [02:22:34] XAMPP is fine in your case. [02:22:41] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Installing_MediaWiki_on_XAMPP [02:23:28] Uh. I don't know if I have Apache or any of the other requirements? [02:23:55] XAMPP packages Apache, MySQL, PHP, and Perl in the download [02:24:06] Try https://laragon.org/ [02:24:38] Pretty sure that has a MediaWiki installer too.. if not it'd be easy to set up still [02:25:16] Whaaaa [02:25:20] that's insane! [02:27:52] thank you both so much for pointing in a clear direction while I stumble around in confusion a little [02:29:01] You'll figure it out ^^ MediaWiki is pretty easy, even if I am a little biased [02:29:07] also yay laragon looks like it's going to help me with a different unrelated project I had to shelf about a VN [02:30:01] Laragon is awesome :p [02:30:11] Looks like I finally accidentally got guided to a dev tool on top of just running mediawiki [02:30:35] Definitely use Laragon instead of XAMPP then tbh. If you're going to be containerizing and testing a lot of different projects, it's going to be much smoother on Larago [02:32:15] Yeah it's pretty nice in that regard too [02:41:30] Hey, I saw what is happening with Miraheze. [02:41:36] I am scare [02:41:47] Me too. [02:42:02] I hope they find a group of people [02:42:14] I might move my wiki soon to a differant platform [02:42:37] I'm still trying to get something running locally, but been stuff for a good hour+ between fiddling with docker and trying to look at install instructions in the mediawiki manual [02:43:33] <.labster#0000> There's no real need to move right away. There's a commitment to keep the site up for a few months more, at the minimum. It's always good to look around, but you don't have to act immediately. We may be able to fix things. [02:44:04] Following https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki-Docker ? [02:45:19] <:almondtired:819864487934689290> hoping things turn out fine ,i dont have the resources to self-host or can justify getting paid services [02:47:04] I still need to be prepared [02:47:06] Why, what is needed to self-host? cause i'm looking to that option [02:47:52] so miraheze is closing? [02:48:09] Just incase something bad happens to Miraheze [02:48:14] Potentially in a few months [02:48:42] Almost any shared web host can run MediaWiki, but ideally you'd want to find a host which offers 1-click installs [02:49:22] But in view of the demonstration of support, I doubt that such a closure will happen. I think [02:49:39] to save this site. [02:49:43] any reccomendation? [02:50:29] https://brixly.uk/unlimited-web-hosting, but that's UK based [02:50:35] Lots of services available [02:50:56] Literally any that are similar to ^ will probably work [02:51:22] iirc on mediawiki.org had a list of mediawiki farm services [02:51:59] yep, lots of options [02:52:09] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Hosting_services [02:52:17] im concern on security issues tbh] [02:52:25] There's obviously great services like fandom.com \:P [02:52:40] Ugh [02:53:07] One shall not utter the name of that monstrosity in here! [02:53:09] No [02:53:22] Agent vanquished to the dark realms [02:53:44] And stay there! /j [02:54:06] I would hate to see this site go [02:54:09] Might be worth pinning this for a bit? [02:54:22] I would too at the end of the day, we all would [02:54:38] the issue is finding which website can host the wiki and still be 1. spedy, 2. private 3. accesable from any device [02:55:01] how do i download all data of my wikis before miraheze go down? [02:55:04] Welcome to Open Source Software [02:55:19] Special:DataDump on any wiki [02:55:24] noted [02:55:40] Small disclaimer, most of them are paid, others have ads and a limited handful are absolutely free. [02:55:47] @agentisai see dms [02:56:21] so has no one else searched that list of hosting services and found something viable? [02:56:38] or better yet, has anyone found a way to reasonably host their own media wiki? [02:57:24] Anyone can self-host, but not everyone knows how to do it right. [02:57:56] hm. it lets me delete and download the managewiki_backup just fine, but not the xml. actually, i had this problem before and they actually had to go in and delete something that was making it not work? [02:58:00] I've used fandom and miraheze, but I like having my platform running on my own (while learning while annoying my sysadmins when I can't). [02:59:07] ive found fandom to be pretty effective, but you obviously can't make it private, which is essential for me, since i use my wiki mostly for a database for my world building [02:59:12] DataDump is definitely going to be sluggish for now. What's your wiki's name? [02:59:28] GrandLibraryOfTheTower [02:59:35] URL I meant [02:59:40] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki-Docker or https://mediawiki.org/wiki/Software_bundles if you're just wanting to run MediaWiki on your own computer [03:00:24] data dumps include images right? [03:00:27] https://grandlibraryofthetower.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page [03:01:27] Just to note that image dump requests might not get a response super quickly but I am actively actioning requests [03:01:58] noteed [03:02:52] I'll try do some too [03:04:03] Installing MediaWiki is no big deal either, as long as you don't want to pretend it's a wikimedia wiki you can easily keep it. [03:10:47] trying to figure out how to host a wiki somewhere else for free is giving me a headache [03:11:52] It definitely helps you appreciate the work that the MH volunteers have done even more [03:12:56] might goi with wikitide for now [03:13:03] So we stop the new wiki creation requests, and that's it, what is so bad about it [03:15:45] they're only hosting a handful of wikis. i wonder if they'll be able to handle the sudden influx. [03:17:29] no, (i think) you would need to request a full image dump for that [03:17:46] im not entirely sure about that [03:18:08] You do need to request images separately from the datadump [03:18:27] okay [03:19:26] how do we know if images is inlcuded in the dump [03:19:43] or when its done, is it automatically in? [03:20:00] Once complete the image dump will show up in Special:DataDump [03:20:01] oh yea thats a problem [03:20:44] like this? [03:21:22] That dump will have the pages and primary text content of your wiki. If you want the images/media you'll need to make a request on [[Stewards' Noticeboard]] [03:21:22] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Stewards%27_Noticeboard [03:21:22] [03:21:27] [1/2] well, over 700 new messages [03:21:28] [2/2] morning [03:21:42] Always a lovely sight, isn't it? [03:21:48] i wonder if there is a way to port our miraheze wiki over to wikitide [03:22:23] ah ok [03:23:19] If you want to move your wiki the information from Special:DataDump can be used to move hosts. [03:24:05] The XML export has what you need for pages/etc. Image dump can follow the instructions in my previous comments here. [03:24:29] okay! [03:27:17] I'll be writing a (host agnostic) guide to exporting in a bit. Expect links in the coming days. [03:33:06] feel bad for you guys now having to deal with the flood of people needing all their wiki data transferred out with such limited staff [03:34:15] honestly yea, but the whole situation is kinda panicking chaosly tbh [03:34:55] i mean, theres at least two months. the only reason im requesting image dumps now is because i need to figure out how to self host [03:36:18] yeah, hi I'm new and I joined because of that but I'm here to offer my help [03:37:04] also unrelated but i feel like many people here would need the news, google announced today that they're selling google domains to squarespace so if anyone has domains on google domains be aware of that [03:37:16] oh wow [03:37:21] i quite literally just transferred mine there a couple months ago [03:37:34] thanks for the PSA [03:37:45] Yeah just discovered that shortly ago [03:39:37] [1/2] idk why it feels like August is far away [03:39:37] [2/2] but apparently not [03:40:14] ~10 weeks right? [03:40:31] til the 31st (my birthday lol) [03:42:18] Hey how do I transfer my wiki to another MediaWiki? [03:43:50] You'll need the XML dump from Special:DataDump. You can provide that XML file as an import to a new MediaWiki host. If you want the images those can also be requested via a DataDump but the request needs to go on the [[Stewards' Noticeboard]] [03:43:50] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Stewards%27_Noticeboard [03:43:50] [03:44:30] Ok I will do that [03:44:47] Thank you [03:44:49] there's gonna be so much image dump requests, who's gonna process them [03:45:07] I'm going to be around to do some and so is MacFan4000 [03:45:18] Also what is this stupid time limit? Why do we need slowmode? [03:45:54] it was bad earlier [03:46:02] like- really bad [03:47:19] Think over a hundred messages in about 5 minutes, or at least that's what it felt like [03:47:29] heeey Qwerty [03:47:36] more like hunderd messages in 30 seconds [03:47:59] thats what it felt like [03:48:29] It was quite bad earlier. It may be able to be removed at this point but it's also not a hudge hindrance [03:48:32] How do I download image dumps btw. I get how to download the website and stuff [03:48:34] It was a dumpster fire but it sort of calmed down for now while we figure out what to do [03:48:51] Once the image dump is complete it'll be accessible on Special:DataDump like the XML dumps [03:49:19] Ok [03:49:42] [1/3] sad to say this but obviously Devilman Wiki won't migrate oout of MH [03:49:42] [2/3] I saw the founder dude being back on FANDOM and it's practically killed my remaining bits of motivation [03:49:42] [3/3] I'll scrap templates tho, they might be goot to use for newbies [03:49:57] goot [03:50:11] i am goot (star war refrence) [03:50:16] it's 6:50 please [03:51:48] Nooo [03:58:52] Fuck it time to host my own websites i guess [03:58:53] @rajavlitra Watch your language. [03:59:02] no u Dyno [03:59:19] Dyno has been quite active today [04:03:55] [1/3] The templates would definitely be helpful, I think! Especially for newbies and just... to copy with less hassle. [04:03:56] [2/3] Understandable that your remaining motivation's gone the way of the dodo, though, don't feel too bad for it. [04:03:56] [3/3] Also sorry I haven't been around much, I kind of got sucked into a project of mine that was SUPPOSED to be small and on the side. [04:06:30] [1/2] yee totally understandable [04:06:30] [2/2] my main wiki still has larger focus for me (it got better indexing thanks to a tiktok trend and a journalist contacted me to contribute to his book) [04:07:17] Oooh, that's so cool! And encouraging that it got good indexing! [04:08:30] Oh wow, how do y'all get that famous haha [04:11:14] the trend was about goths dancing to weird music and it started w/ Sex Dwarf, song went viral and started googling it and ... yes, here goes my wiki w/ an article on it lol [04:11:37] That's pretty cool haha [04:12:09] it missed a sensible half and I had to make myself finish it quickly lmao [04:13:42] [1/2] I've been personally working on a little fictional world set in the future where it looks like a utopia on the surface but a dystopia beneath, and some of the issues it covers are damn well similar to modern-day problems [04:13:43] [2/2] Also I think we should take this to #offtopic [04:27:28] sorta similar here but yea #offtopic [04:41:40] can I still request user name change? [04:41:55] Yes [04:42:05] heh [04:42:15] would be nice to have nicely assigned edits from history [04:54:56] Hey odd question, images working for anyone else? [04:55:10] images or image dumps [04:55:28] On my wiki, haven't checked if my image dump has been approved [04:56:06] I wonder if swift has finally hit critical mass [04:56:19] Oh god don't say that ugh [04:56:41] swift? [04:56:51] our file hosting service [04:56:56] Okay my images load, I have to click the file itself [04:57:53] something wrong with thumbnails then [04:58:13] thumbnail issue is ongoing [04:58:40] setContainerAccess maybe? [04:58:55] I think in #support there's a pinned task about it [04:59:08] this or that yeah [04:59:11] but I don't know what's been said in the task [04:59:18] two different issues, no? [04:59:26] two different issues from my understanding [04:59:45] I requested username change via button, is it right? <:ThinkerMH:912930078646730792> [04:59:56] let me se [05:00:13] looks right [05:00:20] thanks [05:02:15] What is happening? I can't believe it [05:02:26] well [05:02:43] it's a sad sighting [05:02:52] Thumbnails caught a case of the 'splodys, Void's looking into it. [05:03:08] what? [05:03:25] Sorry. Long day. What specific thing are you asking about? [05:04:09] latest messages in #announcements cover everything I believe @xandy1222 [05:04:22] Miraheze will disappear? [05:05:03] [1/3] yeah [05:05:03] [2/3] I have read it. [05:05:03] [3/3] very sad [05:05:37] [1/2] most likely, by September [05:05:37] [2/2] indeed [05:06:37] Heres my opinion to everyone, don’t let the recent announcement cause any panic yet, do your backups and image dumps, but hold off on anything else quite yet, let us attempt to work something out here. [05:07:07] Ok [05:07:25] Are decisions definitive? [05:07:42] Nothing has been decided for sure yet [05:08:44] i never really knew how many wikis miraheze had tbh [05:08:56] Ok. thanks. [05:09:00] a lot more than it comes across as [05:10:54] a lot of FANDOM refugees, personal projects, world building and private ones [05:12:29] there seems to be a demand for kind of "offline" version of MediaWiki, so people would be able to arrange stuff w/ it w/o needing to host online or torture themselves w/ a VM installation [05:17:36] there was that wikidpad thing linked earlier that seems to be an attempt at something like that, but the screenshots for it leave much to be desired [05:19:29] hello, i am one of the bureaucrats of the 2b2t wiki.( https://2b2t.miraheze.org) i need a miraheze staffmember to please generate a datadump with images <:pleading_cat:752972866777251881> [05:19:38] needs more trending and perhaps it'll get better [05:20:18] you should leave request on Stewards Noticeboard and wait, there's gonna be a queue, obviously [05:20:22] done [05:20:32] i love you agent, naming my firstborn agent [05:20:35] lol [05:20:38] np [05:21:31] right here [05:21:45] Where can this be accessed? [05:22:13] wiki URL? [05:22:24] https://zenith.nsmbu.net [05:22:37] Oh gonna get to it faster than I can point to the notice board [05:22:41] is there a good alternative to miraheze? [05:23:18] [1/2] a) wikitide which is still on very early stages [05:23:18] [2/2] b) telepedia, which is basically uk version of fandom [05:23:37] Telepedia if your wiki is focused on entertainment [05:23:52] well, same shit on fandom [05:24:08] [1/2] https://phabricator.miraheze.org/T10968 [05:24:09] [2/2] <:xsob:912928935577276526> [05:24:09] done [05:24:22] Technically you could also do a Wiki on Discord 😛 [05:24:25] Wow thank you so much [05:24:39] done [05:24:42] not the best way it but it's definitely possible [05:24:58] Ah does telepedia have good seo? [05:25:01] next you'll suggest telegram lmao [05:25:13] Honestly never used Telegram [05:25:14] or is it like miraheze where you control it by yourself? [05:25:22] idk, but they have ads, so [05:25:24] probably like Miraheze tbh [05:25:34] its over 🕊️ [05:25:53] there layout is similar to fandom's lol [05:26:02] when I tried to check telepedia I couldn't see ads even w/o ublock lmao [05:26:12] how do you do a wiki on Discord, lmao [05:26:19] literally its the same, they are trying hard to being a media company than a wikifarm [05:26:22] They are extremely there on the wikis themselves, IIRC [05:26:52] [1/2] yeah, thought so [05:26:52] [2/2] maybe vpn or being in russia is to blame [05:27:16] I've been checking wikis exactly [05:27:42] They’re in the same place on all pages. [05:27:42] noo [05:28:26] now you gotta investigate why people don't see ads lol [05:29:11] Not really, I know people are seeing them. [05:31:00] eh, it seems like a good alternative for now [05:31:04] So, when is Miraheze selling the orain domain 👀 [05:31:27] i hope it can be better though with seo and stuff [05:31:33] Thanks for clarifying [05:32:15] (But also meta wiki only shows the top one because faffing with the layout is too annoying in vector-2022) [05:33:16] That explains the particulars of my experience then. Def want to be accurate in any details I spread, so this is helpful. [05:33:59] telepedia has less ads than wiki.gg tbf and nobody seems to complain about wiki.gg ads [05:34:19] Could also be the size of the sitenotice ad though could probably make that smaller [05:35:10] Miraheze needs ads tbh [05:35:19] God no [05:35:21] I mean, telepedia still has potential, definitely better than going to fandom [05:35:22] You’d make a killing though [05:35:42] RfC/Ads [05:35:49] <:saysike:488508133958746113> [05:35:57] is this serious or? [05:35:58] I vote we remove agent for suggesting such blasphemy [05:36:15] You could do something like GamepediaPRO [05:36:16] lol [05:36:17] I wonder how much it costs per month to run a wiki-farm? [05:36:26] lol no [05:36:41] Content Policy actually prohibits ads [05:36:45] oop [05:37:13] i'mma log off for the night though [05:37:29] Goodnight Brandon [05:37:30] gnight all [05:38:03] No, it wouldn't 😂 It isn't the wild west anymore - if you want to make money on ads you need people that understand what they're doing at a minimum to integrate with the serious publisher programs, but, ideally, selling ad space to advertisers. [05:38:03] [1/2] what's gonna happen w/ remaining funds, again? [05:38:04] [2/2] totally not in the mood of going tru 700+ night messages [05:38:06] for other wiki farms [05:38:27] (if it was allowed) i feel like if it was done the right way ads would actually be a good thing, i.e an opt-in program wiki owners could do to help out the platform [05:38:29] fandom seo is killing most wikifarms rn, but let's see if telepedia stays around [05:38:31] Miraheze might not deadpool, maybe, to be seen [05:38:39] Nothing as of now, me and labster will be scheduling a meeting with the board to discuss miraheze’s future and possible plans [05:38:52] aight [05:39:01] I mean, they would. ShoutWiki uses GoogleAds which is notoriously the worst publisher to use. [05:39:16] [1/3] go to ShoutWiki, it has disgusting skin [05:39:16] [2/3] go to Fandom, it is just overall disgusting [05:39:17] [3/3] we'd make a killing [05:39:21] it's a problem if there are wikis on the same subject in both places [05:39:51] A few Telepedia Wikis got copied verbatim to Fandom by some Fandom star [05:39:54] Yeah, which most are. [05:40:04] bruh [05:40:08] JustLeafy or something [05:40:17] especially since its tv/enterainment related [05:41:27] I'm so happy I got fixated on music again since my teen days lol [05:42:27] man, I wonder what MusikAnimal will do ... [05:44:14] If we go through with the winding down of operations, current funds will be used to maintain a site and storage for backups of all previous wikis. [05:44:48] sell off the orain domain 👀 [05:45:04] lol [05:45:15] Fight you for it, Agent [05:45:17] I'm sorry but "orain" sounds like "oreo" and it's so damn funny [05:45:17] We were considering releasing it [05:45:20] not sure if the orain domain has any value to it [05:45:37] Have you seen the SEO? After so long it’s still strong [05:45:47] really? it was a shortlived service that deadpooled nearly a decade ago, I'm surprised [05:51:50] are there paid farms that are basically at the miraheze level [05:52:11] most should be above Miraheze level [05:53:41] our project basically does not have the means to self-host because of the whole time commitment thing and we want an alternative that will last and won't get eaten by fandom...which is leaving us with paid options as possibly our best bet [05:54:09] Jezz, even paid options are expensive af [05:54:19] MyWikis and WikiForge are rather inexpensive [05:54:34] I want something like $1 or a bit higher, not $10 [05:54:34] one is $11/mo, the other $9 [05:54:49] oh [05:55:05] those are like the most inexpensive MW hosting services around [05:55:13] Technically enough paid for the storage [05:57:15] mywiki is more like $25 if you want to use semantic mediawiki [05:57:32] oof [05:57:50] WikiForge doesn't charge extra for SMW afaik [05:58:00] <光纪#9056> too expensive for us outside US [05:58:20] <光纪#9056> exchange rate sucks [05:58:39] <光纪#9056> 🥲 [05:59:07] rip [06:00:16] <光纪#9056> If 25$ per mo, I need to pay nearly 200 [06:00:21] [1/2] I heard the news. Guess we'll all have to do our own thing next year, Miraheze users. [06:00:22] [2/2] (Even if Miraheze stops serving wikis in our name on 10/1, we'll still be able to use them at least until next year, right?) [06:00:38] until money runs out [06:01:15] am I right in saying that staff is the current issue, and that money is a slightly longer term issue? [06:01:32] not that money isn’t always an issue but yk [06:01:43] staff is the current issue indeed, money is always a problem but that's not the current issue [06:01:50] mhm [06:01:54] why can't we move to LTS? Should be as same as Shoutwiki (without new features) [06:02:10] <光纪#9056> what's LTS [06:02:26] <光纪#9056> didn't hear before [06:02:32] I think we should go ahead with the MediaWiki upgrade tbh [06:02:41] Is cost of living a factor in this decision? Or is it because you have more wikis than you can handle? Or is it because the entire workforce can't take it anymore? [06:02:48] Long Term Services: You don't need to update software as frequent as normal update [06:03:24] most of the volunteer staff has left and there arent many people filling roles [06:03:31] frequent updates stress the SRE team too much [06:03:51] imagine test 400 extensions for every month [06:04:08] 💀 [06:04:28] and we did it \:) [06:04:51] I tested 200 extensions which is why I want the MediaWiki upgrade to happen, so that my work doesn't go to waste \:P [06:05:04] I would say that there are definitely some interest in fulfilling some of them. [06:05:21] at least [06:05:37] mhm, I’m definitely interested, just worried about commitment/amount of work/etc [06:05:46] [1/2] i dont really consider miraheze completely dead yet, the announcement has brought out people who will fill roles (if #tech-community shows anything) [06:05:46] [2/2] prepare for the worst but i have a little bit of hope still in me [06:05:49] community roles are probably the least important atm, tech needs more help [06:06:13] [1/3] OMG. I can't believe I'm hearing this news. [06:06:13] [2/3] I'm worried that it's going to hurt my Worldbuilding project in the long run. [06:06:13] [3/3] I'm hoping that by the end of August, there will be new people applying to join the Miraheze staff and that this advisory will be rescinded. [06:06:36] are the extension tests easy to do? I would be able to do menial tasks that to take load off the smarter people in SRE? [06:06:47] make backups, we can hope but be prepared for the worst [06:07:18] Okay [06:08:46] i would apply to help but i have little/zero experience with anything thats needed unfortunately [06:08:56] ^ same here unfortunately [06:09:27] I’m very eager to help out though if I at all can [06:10:12] Well unfortunately, I'm more of a community-related person. Technical behind the scenes stuff isn't my specialty. [06:10:43] anyways I'm probably going to be heading out soon [06:11:07] that’s the thing though, if there are people like us who can handle the simpler stuff, doesn’t that mean the SRE can focus more on the technical stuff? [06:11:35] they also need to avoid having too many staff [06:12:00] At this point, they have too few from what it seems. [06:12:01] [1/2] Yea, most of SRE are stressed with non-SRE stuffs [06:12:01] [2/2] They are engineers, not gatekeepers [06:12:26] You can definitely apply for something like Global Sysop if you have experience reverting vandalism and such on multiple wikis [06:12:43] that's probably a job you can enter without having to build up a huge amount of trust [06:13:01] as needed for Steward [06:13:01] :0 i hope this means the path forward is more within grasp than I thought before [06:13:33] well there's always hope ... [06:13:48] if you've the experience then feel free to reach out! [06:14:02] will do (later because sleep yk ehe)! [06:14:06] i do think a lot of the roles should be rethought, mainly making sure the roles have only a few specific duties and that those duties usually dont reach out [06:14:20] So what?? [06:14:41] I came as soon as I read the announcement. What's going on? [06:15:07] Global Sysop is basically just reverting spam and vandalism on all wikis, not too complex [06:15:10] [1/2] I'd gladly perform less decision making tasks that stewards do, like half of what is requested on SN [06:15:10] [2/2] but the role is too responsible heavy, all that NDA etc [06:15:38] Exactly [06:15:42] ...I honestly would love to apply for this if at all possible. [06:15:58] Miraheze has announced its suspending new wiki creations and will close by 1st October unless the position improves [06:16:04] if you can commit to being active and have x-wiki experience then go ahead [06:16:52] 2015-1.10.2023 [06:25:44] July 22nd 2015 [06:26:09] ill be honest, if you guys want to have a shot at surviving i think you might need to lessen the requirements of some roles on the volunteering opportunities page at the moment. get some people who might not be as well versed in mediawiki but can be trained [06:26:54] Global Sysop is definitely having almost no requirement [06:27:33] SRE engineers on the other hands actually requires coding skill [06:27:56] yeah some of the highere up positions definetly need the requirements [06:28:43] [1/3] So, we're going all in on trying to salvage this operation, eh? [06:28:43] [2/3] Not gonna lie, my heart really sank when I read the anouncement. I was already in a sour mood, and it soured it even more. [06:28:44] [3/3] But now that I am reading this chat.... it seems like there might still be hope? [06:29:11] probably [06:29:14] i wouldnt say all in but thers talks [06:29:24] There's always hope but the problem is that there is no volunteer for even the simplest tasks [06:29:28] if people step up and volunteer then we have a bright future [06:31:19] That is so unfortunate news to wake up to 😔 does the second announcement mean that if new volunteers are found to fill the positions, Miraheze will not shut down? [06:31:21] I wish MH can somehow gets free volunteers like how Reddit does [06:32:00] Yes [06:32:13] I know it would take a significant effort to scrape through applications, but.... I am guessing tat lot of people - including myself - aren't even sure what could they volunteer for with their given skillsets. ||(Mine being C++, C#, Lua and Linux systems. I'm a software developer first and foremost, who dabbled a little in visual art.)|| [06:32:15] [1/2] Too bad you don't have the mindset of a Korean volunteer. [06:32:15] [2/2] (It's ironic that Koreans are so resistant to the culture of pushing and shoving these days) [06:32:35] [1/2] It's a possibility, though I do want to stress that every path forward is narrow. [06:32:36] [2/2] Regardless, I've volunteered to stay on as long as I'm needed. [06:33:38] Pinned posts for this channel has the critical near-term details [06:34:06] Honestly, given the structure of Miraheze and Western labor culture, that's the only answer. [06:35:24] linux is a nice bonus tho [06:36:27] Because MediaWiki runs primarily on Linux, right? [06:36:29] any chance to separate mundane and import tasks of stewards? [06:37:07] Mediawiki does use Lua especially when you working on complex templates [06:37:19] it can run on anything but Linux is the best server os in general [06:37:37] Yep, I use a lot of modules too. [06:37:44] I will have to look into helping as well. Not sure what I could contribute with my skills, but will think about it once it's not morning heh [06:38:01] agh im tempted to sign up but all my cs experience is in a completely different realm [06:38:21] im a gamedev and general purpose coder not a backend specialist [06:48:46] I know this is not applicable to everyone but if youre looking to self host and study at college/uni: somtetimes they offer cheap options that are good enough for small wikis [06:49:09] Github education includes hosting offers [06:49:43] @Stewards Can you please check out the https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Stewards'_noticeboard on section - Wiki (un)deletions Thanks [06:51:24] probably won't be actioned for a bit [06:51:48] That's a bummer. [06:52:31] @agentisai the dump failed could you please restart <:pleading_face_BOLD:748650536873623673> [06:54:08] bye bye miraheze i think? [06:54:25] fates up in the air right now [06:54:42] make sure you have backups [06:54:48] oh [06:56:53] There are 2 new requests, gentlemen. for your information [06:57:15] [[Requests_for_global_permissions#Tali64³'s Request for Global Sysop]] [06:57:15] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_global_permissions#Tali64%c2%b3%27s_Request_for_Global_Sysop [06:57:16] [06:58:02] [[Requests for permissions#BrandonWM (Administrator)]] [06:58:02] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_permissions#BrandonWM_(Administrator) [06:58:03] [06:58:56] [[Meta:Requests for permissions#BrandonWM (Administrator)]] [06:58:56] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_permissions#BrandonWM_(Administrator) [06:58:57] [06:59:40] [1/2] [[Requests_for_global_permissions#Tali64³'s Request for Global Sysop]] [06:59:40] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_global_permissions#Tali64%c2%b3%27s_Request_for_Global_Sysop [06:59:40] [2/2] [[Meta:Requests for permissions#BrandonWM (Administrator)]] [06:59:40] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_permissions#BrandonWM_(Administrator) [06:59:40] [1/2] [06:59:41] [2/2] [06:59:46] Miraheze is going to shut down. [07:00:07] It was a good run [07:01:07] so the lack of programmers caused its shutdown announcement? [07:01:33] lack of pretty much any technical staff, yeah [07:01:56] oh [07:02:18] alright then... i guess r.i.p miraheze 20??-2023 [07:02:31] 2015 [07:02:36] ah [07:03:03] [1/2] Sad to hear about your lack of volunteers! It happens. :( Regardless, thank you for your services thus far. @agentisai has been very helpful ever since we first migrated to Miraheze, so I wanted to thank you in particular for your selfless work! I am wishing Miraheze the best but I know volunteers with experience are very hard to come by. ^^" I wish I could help but I have nothin [07:03:04] [2/2] g to offer. [07:03:22] If the SRE member is not found, it will close on October 1st, but take your time. [07:03:51] i was thinking about making some kind of callout message about the situation miraheze is in and how volunteers are desperately needed & try and spread it around as much as possible [07:04:07] if i cant apply for much i can at least use my graphic design skills for something [07:04:26] sre member, like one who knows web development and what else [07:06:45] @notaracham [07:07:06] ummmmm... did i do something? [07:07:11] Midnight local time, do not ping. [07:07:22] 😭 <:mirahezelogo:446641749142798339> <:DevMH:945090761618227240> 🚫 [07:08:14] @agentisai<:xsob:912928935577276526> [07:08:30] NotAracham_22 Let the time you log in begin. [07:09:04] 😦 [07:17:54] Sadheze [07:19:04] [1/2] make backups of your wikis in any case [07:19:04] [2/2] there's a small chance things will improve for MH, but alternatives (other than FANDOM) also exist and are emerging [07:21:18] w/ image dumps errors I also advice to try alternative image scrapping methods like WikiTeam Tool (python) or FANDOM's download script (node.js) [07:22:07] at very least it'll lessen pressure on remaining SRE/stewards [07:24:49] ^With enough knowledge, pulling scrapping from these tools are much faster than request dump [07:25:31] Also reduce lots of strain on the server too [07:25:40] yup [07:31:42] hi Avengium [07:31:46] We can still save Miraheze if we volunteer to work on Miraheze [07:32:09] Hi. Do you wanted to talk about something? [07:32:26] eh, everything been said already so much here [07:32:47] I'd pin my advices tho [07:34:21] i’m gonna go to sleep, its 3:30am and i spent way too long talking here. hopefully we can see something happen soon 💜 [07:34:44] Goodnight! [07:35:19] Ok. Thanks. I hope we can find enough volunteers [07:36:29] night night [07:37:29] Legitimate question for everyone: Free wiki or no wiki? [07:39:05] Cheap wiki [07:39:08] Time to go to bed wiki. That's a tomorrow discussion. [07:39:49] [1/2] Do you y think these two requests are enough? [07:39:49] [2/2] I think we should ask for more volunteers as fast as possible. [07:43:57] you can ask a lot but it's not an indication of successful "hire" [07:44:29] well, sloppy wording..... [07:48:53] We should ask people. We need volunteers [07:49:43] I think a significant word of mouth outside of Miraheze has to be done [07:50:04] Okay, I’m going to be bold here, but if everyone could DM me a list of what they would like to see change, and ideas of how things could move forward, I would appreciate it. [07:51:07] Pin that statement if you want [08:01:52] Can anyone deal with this problem?<:xsob:912928935577276526> [08:04:14] if your wiki is public it's gonna be faster and safer to scrap images w/ scripts - WikiTeam Tool on python or FANDOM's download in node.js [08:05:14] MH image dump proves too be unstable at this moment [08:06:13] There's an image dump? 🤨 [08:08:04] it has to be requested via Stewards' Noticeboard (previously SRE been doing that) [08:25:09] So its there a way to back up etc my wiki before it stops working? [08:25:28] If it does [08:25:58] <光纪#9056> glad that my pictures have backups in my PC [08:26:21] <光纪#9056> and I make every page saved in form of .txt [08:26:35] [1/2] Yes, will be getting a guide together for folks shortly. [08:26:35] [2/2] In the meantime, Special:Data dump can get article text backed up [08:26:43] MH made a backup before your wiki stopped [08:27:27] <光纪#9056> seems that before Sep.1 we can still edit the content [08:27:50] <光纪#9056> but I'm wondering if moving to other farm right now. [08:28:28] This is true, barring major changes in plans august 31st is when normal editing ends [08:30:26] dude go to sleep lol [08:30:44] sleep deprivation sucks [08:32:36] <光纪#9056> true dude [08:33:49] No disagreement here [08:33:58] Gnight attempt twi [08:34:08] <光纪#9056> my local time is 4pm afternoon so it's dawn in american... [08:38:09] I am already looking in moving my personal alternate history wiki over to another one [08:39:35] You should assume that from 1st september you can't edit [08:40:14] Backups for public wikis will exist forever but private wikis will only be as long as we can afford it. [08:40:44] Public backups will continue to be provided in association with Internet Archive's WikiTeam [08:41:01] So yes plan to move @hawkaussie [08:43:25] I did see another wikihost type of service so I could always try there but I realised that I had an old wiki from another service that could be reworked. [08:47:04] Others interested in doing a team thing for continuing miraheze can poke me. I have voiced my interest in taking care of the infrastructure/hosting side of it. I own www.wdmab.se which is an hoster and ISP. So we have the muscles for it but there are other aspects [08:50:16] Please post in #tech-community [08:50:24] If I want, I have GS, WC etc. I will apply for it but not for now. [08:52:30] Please post in #tech-community, plans are being looked at to potentially save stuff and they will continue until 23:59 on August 31st if they have too [08:52:56] Aye. I have posted there [09:14:46] If Miraheze has enough volunteers we could continue the activity [09:32:38] looks like quite the news what i just wrote [09:35:48] read. read, not wrote. meh... [09:35:50] dont delete the discord [09:36:43] there's time before September, maybe nobody would to have to delete Miraheze lol [09:42:16] I'm pretty sure people will be trying until the last second to reach a deal to save Miraheze [09:43:40] the way you said that it sounds like a bank lol [09:44:02] true [09:54:56] regardless, while we're at it, i'd like to thank everyone who helped me setting up and running mine [09:55:35] 🙇 [10:58:37] shutting down? wow [10:59:08] what got me on the wrong foot was the community conduct rules that went through without taking into account any feedback as far as I could see [10:59:57] There was an entire Request for Comment that was advertised (https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_Comment/Code_of_Conduct_reform) [11:00:23] Unfortunately of course many communities probably weren't aware of it and didn't participate. But I don't think it contained very controversial rules either, most of them seem quite common sense [11:07:16] ah, it was the content policy [11:08:12] for me it just meant I wasn't going to donate anything I guess, but it still sucks to see a major non-profit wiki farm shut its doors [11:08:29] I really don't need the ad-infested world of wikia/fandom in my life [11:08:41] content policy? it's not the reason here [11:09:31] there's an ad-less free hosting currently in development tho [11:10:30] Wait so just to clarify. Is miraheze closing or not this september? [11:10:34] I'd say sloppy application of code of conduct is actually source of drama which resulted in ... this [11:13:03] [1/3] there's very slim chance Miraheze will continue to work after August [11:13:04] [2/3] but overall the plan that by September it'll slowly cease to operate [11:13:04] [3/3] either way I suggest to make backups right now [11:13:42] Mhm ok [11:13:59] its time to use wikiteam tool guys [11:14:09] we be knew [11:14:26] tho MH provides means of activation too [11:14:44] archivation [11:15:06] [1/4] Miraheze is not shutting down. [11:15:06] [2/4] We need a more clear and focused organization to make better use of the time of the volunteers and more volunteers to effect the volunteer work. [11:15:06] [3/4] But a key point is having more transparency in my opinion. [11:15:07] [4/4] If we are Community-based, then transparency and reaching out to the community is key. [11:16:09] [1/5] it's not shutting down? [11:16:09] [2/5] > orderly winding down of operations [11:16:10] [3/5] and [11:16:10] [4/5] > and will no longer be providing wikis by October 1st [11:16:10] [5/5] gave me that impression [11:17:15] [1/2] A lot of community people have misconceptions. IF we are community based, that means the "body" of Miraheze has misconceptions about themselves. [11:17:15] [2/2] If we are not community based, then we need a better management team independent of the community and who knows what are the strengths and weakness of the current internal situation. [11:18:28] @avengium Miraheze will shut down by the 1st October. Please don't spread nonsense. [11:18:45] Unless there is a significant change in volunteers, it's been agreed. [11:19:25] I'm not spreading nonsense. I'm saying a key for having volunteers pooled from the community, we need more transparency to that community [11:19:42] Exorcism[m]: I am working with WikiTeam to get stuff on Internet Archive [11:19:55] I'm having lunch [11:19:57] Nice [11:20:01] Then I will test the spider [11:20:08] Otherwise, search volunteers from outside the community or wherever you like [11:20:14] I had to run some AM errands or I'd have done it by now [11:20:26] Personally I would hold off a couple days on Internet Archive stuff [11:21:02] We will be making it possible [11:21:23] With WikiTeam [11:21:34] Reception123 used to do regular public archives but they left [11:21:42] So WikiTeam will take responsibility back [11:23:46] I think it's quite unlikely that Miraheze will cease operations this year. There has been extremely bad and rash communication from leadership in the last week or two. I would give it a couple days for cooler heads to prevail [11:24:11] It's very likely. We have no volunteers @cookmeplox [11:24:50] _looks over at the "Free work" channels on VantaFox and Freelance marketplace_ [11:27:08] Well, you had volunteers and they left a week ago [11:34:14] Again, I am so sorry this happened to all of you, and those poor volunteers. [11:35:46] Hey, thank you guys for being clear in your communication - it's greatly appreciated [11:36:08] We had a good ride and made good friends. We still got a lot out the 8 years Miraheze existed. I've been with Miraheze for half its life and we did well while it lasted. [11:36:24] I posted on my website that it longer words [11:36:40] All things have a beginning and an end. [11:38:24] Oh.. And there's not even if it is little, a chance to don't delete miraheze? [11:39:17] There's a chance but it's not very large [11:39:29] Oo [11:39:51] Well, i'm sure some ppl will try to save it until september [11:39:57] Every effort will be made to ensure we don't collapse if by that point there have been meaningful changes and they are also discussions about another service taking over that's a reformed [11:40:19] But any sale would have to be agreed by the board [11:40:42] Oo I see [11:45:35] is it true that mirahezee closes on october 1st? [11:46:07] A contributor to my wiki has told me that mirahezee closes on October 1st, is that true? [11:46:51] Steven8383: not quite [11:46:51] That is currently the announced status yes [11:46:57] The exact date hasn't been confirmed [11:47:06] Just between September 1st and October 1st [11:47:20] Wikis will be locked at the end of august [11:47:41] You'll get at least 7 days notice of the exact date in September Steven8383 [11:47:53] That's good you did. [11:47:56] And what will happen to my wiki? How can I save her? Or export? [11:48:11] Steven8383: you'll have to move to a new host [11:48:18] We'll be providing support with moving [11:48:28] And archives of public wikis will be maintained [11:48:47] when will said support arrive? [11:49:51] Soon™️ [11:50:00] Will all Wikis be deleted after October [11:50:16] Yes and no [11:51:27] I’m moving my Wikis to a new host so they won’t be locked after the end of august [11:51:43] I have already moved my wikis. [11:52:24] see this type of message is why the haphazard communication of the pending closure is so harmful [11:52:41] ^ [11:53:33] No idea why ppl like doomsaying [11:53:52] The best thing you can do right now is give people a few days to figure out what the future looks like [11:54:36] Even if MH is ceased to exist, the data is still intact (at least) [11:54:37] yea [11:59:42] any other wiki hosts that i could move to? all that matters for me is for mediawiki format and the option to keep it private [11:59:53] Agree with you. I will try to keep my wikis on Miraheze meanwhile i try to think on some idea to help Miraheze stay afloat [12:00:15] give it a week or something before looking into this, IMO [12:00:35] paid options are everywhere, even cheaper prices [12:00:44] [1/2] at this very moment - no [12:00:45] [2/2] the new free wiki hosting doesn't have proper policies and thus doesn't accept private projects unless they are big [12:00:58] i hope for the best, i really do, but im pretty paranoid by nature 😭 [12:00:59] Saying we are going to close when is like half a year for october? We can make a plan and solve this. And we have time to solve this situation [12:01:24] [1/2] man [12:01:24] [2/2] it's middle of the June now [12:01:35] there is nothing to worry about, import wikis are very easy these days [12:02:29] Big projects only? We at The Sims Wiki have no plans on using WikiForge or WikiTide because we feel they are unsuitable for a wiki of our size! [12:02:47] I was talking about private wikis [12:03:04] yea i have it all backed up after the january situation but still it sucks so badly, i hope we will reach some solution [12:04:13] your concerns regarding sims wiki are understandable tho [12:04:26] Ah... [12:05:32] Hmm... RamNode Massive servers hmmm [12:05:46] Yeah, we have a lot of content and need support, trust, and reliability, which a new service cannot provide. [12:06:04] We might just self host after this. [12:06:20] What is your wiki? [12:06:43] The Sims Wiki, as I mentioned [12:06:58] Oh I remember the Sims! [12:08:04] ok here's hoping that we will resolve it, can non-technical people do something to help? [12:08:52] @k6ka A RamNode Massive KVM server for a 2GB RAM and eh, 650GB HDD is $12 a month on RamNode [12:09:17] any stewards or sre (...) able to check this, wiki disappearing w/o going dormant https://discord.com/channels/407504499280707585/1119180650910593116 [12:09:30] For anyone that wants to self host with RamNode (assuming the skills needed to self host); https://ramnode.com/products/vps-hosting/ for prices [12:10:19] Money isn't the big concern for us, it's that we only know one person with the technical skills to run a MediaWiki instance. [12:10:19] give it a week [12:10:52] One is better than none, but he said he doesn't know if he'll be able to handle our needs. [12:11:10] I only ever have done basic set ups sorry [12:12:10] We basically have the same "not enough technical knowledge" issues that MH has right now. It's annoying. [12:13:09] There's a big problem that is there's no CDN [12:13:26] and for big projects, CDN can be costly [12:13:34] I use Cloudflare free for my CDN [12:15:30] Clouldflare Pro is $20 a month or $240 a year [12:15:52] How hard would it be to self-host for someone that does have general coding knowledge, but never done anything with Mediawiki except for local bureaucrat on an MH wiki? [12:16:11] Well, you could find a platform with a one click mediawiki install I guess [12:16:46] There is this list as well https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Hosting_services [12:17:23] I think you will all be better off giving the Miraheze people a week to figure out a succession plan [12:17:33] Cloudflare is free for open source [12:18:57] anyone used shoutwiki? [12:19:35] it's practically dead [12:19:38] Personally I am just starting to look into what options are there to be ready, if and when MH go down. I am certainly not gonna actually move my wiki before it is absolutely certain it is going down, but would be foolish imo to not look at what options is there at this point [12:19:46] i truly take L after L [12:20:40] [1/3] 2 questions regarding the potential shutdown of miraheze. [12:20:40] [2/3] 1. If no new board is found in time will it shut down forever or could it be reopened if out of thin air a board appears some months later [12:20:40] [3/3] 2. I am currently travelling and I wont exist in my own country properly until midseptember... will I still be able to copy my wiki in some sort before it shuts down or not. [12:21:27] there's gonna be IA backups of public wikis 100% [12:21:48] That is nice but what about private wikis [12:22:10] that has to be done on your own [12:22:17] @Steven8383 (I forgot how to @ mention people on IRC) lmao. Your wiki has a gender? [12:22:25] Right but could I still do that after midseptember or not [12:22:37] no [12:22:46] M yea okay then I am fucked [12:23:14] This couldnt have come at a worse time for me I literally left the country yesterday a few hours before the announcement [12:23:34] If I would potentially unprivate the wiki now would a backup exist because I feel like thats the only thing I could properly do [12:23:40] [1/2] backup has to be done at least in mid August, if thing will sink [12:23:40] [2/2] are you single admin of your wiki? [12:23:53] Yes [12:24:28] Im like back in the country for one week end of august and then gone again so earliest I could do is end of august im gone for 6 weeks now 😭 [12:24:45] @dakota we won't be able to provide much for private wikis after Miraheze shuts down. We'll endeavour to provide something while funds last. I would see if you can provide somewhere we can upload too. [12:25:12] I mean if it works that if I put it public now if that would make it get a backup still [12:25:12] Like Dropbox and we might be able to provide a dump to that [12:25:30] That would also work for me [12:25:33] Yes, I'm generating a list of public wikis at some point this weekend [12:25:47] Because ticking a box or unticking a box can easily be done frlm phone [12:26:05] What would the latest be that I would need to publci my wiki [12:27:56] Depends whether WikiTeam keep the list up to date [12:28:12] Exact info on backups will be released within the next few days [12:28:27] I mean if I can do it tomorrow at like 4pm EEST that would work for me [12:28:51] (Eastern European Summer Time idk if theres another EEST in the US or smth) [12:29:52] Thing is I want to check yhe entire thing for setting it to publci and I dont have time today as its my lsst day in Latvia but tokorrow im ina bus to Lithuania for 4 hours so I have time to do so then [12:40:18] That's ok [12:41:26] Hi everybody. I understand Mirahez is being closed? [12:43:53] Not 100% guaranteed, but likely [12:44:11] hope for the best, prepare for the worst [12:44:24] Yes [12:45:13] any good news? [12:45:41] when will they close completely? Will it still be possible to interact with projects after closing? [12:46:08] No [12:46:31] Wait what? [12:46:42] 😭 [12:46:48] Sometime between September 1st and October 1st. Backups will be available but no editing possible. [12:47:06] At this point in time, I have no good news [12:49:01] But we have to save mirhaze [12:49:19] I thought there were new volentears. [12:50:15] They are discussions to save Miraheze but I do not recommend much hope yet. [12:50:33] I still have hope. [12:51:02] I dont want this site to close. Then we only have Fandom 🤮 [12:51:35] No one wants it to close, it's an unfortunate situation [12:51:44] There's also WikiForge (Premium), WikiTide (Free) and wiki.gg [12:52:22] Yeah but its not the same. [12:52:51] Yeah of course, but at least it’s better than Fandumb [12:53:42] wiki.gg only allows official game wiki's, and WT, don't even have proper policies written yet [12:53:50] I still like Mirhaze [12:54:13] thats why we got to save it and get new volenters. [12:54:30] Self hosting is good if you have the skills/money, Cloudflare is a free CDN [12:54:32] ...and localhost. [12:57:07] although it is the riskiest option [12:59:31] And I did not say that this is a stable option.Who can – he will do. I already have some kind of project, I only need to fix one error for the project to work properly. [13:00:30] As for the others... Well, yes, you can really create your own hosting, but it's difficult, expensive, and so on. But why not? There is enough time to do at least something. I think that, in theory, you can recruit a team of smart people and create your own Miraheze. [13:00:51] I hope they do [13:02:50] What if we start by ourselves? I would have done something myself, too, but my knowledge (and efforts) are enough. the maximum is to transfer your two projects to a PC.But there are more than five thousand of us on this server alone! [13:04:52] Hmmmm, RamNode also does Deadicated servers, and CPanel hosting (I think you would have a GUI to install MediaWiki then) [13:09:40] should we worry now? [13:11:35] I'll agree w/ cook - let's see how the situation gonna be in a week [13:12:03] there's still time before September, you can both find new place and create backups [13:12:11] Yes, you should be concerned about the future [13:13:00] There is time but we don't to hide the truth from you and that's as it stands, there's no be no formal discussions about saving Miraheze and it will close by October 1st [13:13:02] We allow community game wikis as well. Just need the support of the whole community [13:21:25] quite confusing messaging. miraheze's shutting down except maybe it's not so you should look for alternative options except it's better to wait and see what time gives [13:23:22] The best way I would describe it is that the (constantly changing) leadership has a history of making some very doomer announcements to as many people as possible (@ everyone on Discord, tweeting) while things are still heated and before they have a change to slow down and think about the consequences of a particular course of action [13:23:48] Plan for the worst, hope for the best. [13:25:12] As it stands, it's shutting down [13:25:35] There is quite a high chance of this getting resolved with new leadership, and if that happens, it will likely be in the next couple of days. You gain very little by doing a bunch of planning right now, when things are still greatly in flux [13:25:51] The difference between having 60 days of lead time vs 62 days of lead time is basically nonexistent [13:25:56] The chance is not high [13:26:08] I don't think you know what you're talking about [13:26:34] I do, I don't think you realise how many of the core volunteers I've spoken too and the plans I know of [13:26:56] Sounds like you aren't talking to the right ones 🙂 [13:27:37] The situation is brittle obviously, but responding to every question the way you have is seriously not helpful [13:28:19] Yes. I agree with you. We should tey to recruit more volunteers into Miraheze and try to save Miraheze [13:31:13] Guys, how I request for an image dump? I've been recreating the wiki I had til now on WikiTide and I kinda would want help with it. [13:31:41] yeah like i'm not super worried about finding an alternative because there's still a lot of time. if it goes down it goes down, c'est la vie. the conflicting messaging and lack of coherence is just super confusing and has been more frustrating to me than the actual announcement of shutting down of the service. [13:31:53] You can request an image dump on the [[Stewards’ Noticeboard]] [13:31:53] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Stewards%e2%80%99_Noticeboard [13:31:54] [13:32:10] Yeah I agree with you. It comes down to the organization basically disintegrating and nobody being in charge [13:32:11] [[SN]] [13:32:11] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/SN [13:32:17] [13:32:33] Hmm, mobile did not like me typing that [13:33:07] Yeah mobile added the wrong one >.> [13:33:20] I'm not sure if the people in charge of the project realized how many people would be affected by this ill-considered announcement [13:33:59] Like, even if/when it survives, you've lost a crazy amount of trust and goodwill in the last day [13:34:18] The decision to close wasn't one that @orduin and @owenrb took easily [13:34:35] I'm not sure if the people involved in the whole debacle leading up to this realized that the consequences of their actions would impact thousands of editors and readers that had entrusted Miraheze. [13:35:21] A lot of the people involved in the debacle had lost that trust in Miraheze [13:35:22] That's the bit that infuriates me the most, and both sides share some fault with this. The integrity and trust of the platform was tossed aside. [13:35:31] The whole thing is truly bizarre to me, you have this really cool service that tons of people use to support their passion projects, and it's getting screwed over by what basically boils down to interpersonal conflicts and classic internet drama [13:35:50] Have a sense of scale [13:36:12] It's saying captcha, but it isn't loading. [13:36:29] coz wrong link. it's https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/SN [13:36:44] That's the impression I get too, which is why I am in general infuriated by all this. Everything that everyone had built up is now being thrown away, with mixed messaging. [13:36:50] I meant I'm already writing it, but the captcha isn't showing. [13:36:51] With such a small team keeping it going, interpersonal relationships have a huge impact. Miraheze is nothing without its community, that was falling apart. Miraheze should have improved volunteers numbers a long time ago to prevent this. [13:37:01] oh. got it lol [13:37:11] Yeah that is absolutely not the right lesson to learn [13:37:49] I have spent a lot of years around open-source projects and wikis, and I've rarely seen such an avoidable flame-out as this one [13:37:52] The messaging hasn't been clear because people don't want to admit it's actually over and they want people to know that if there's a chance to keep things going, they will be kept going. In our current state, we can't go on. [13:37:55] Sorry the captcha isn’t loading 😦 I don’t have a recommendation how to fix that. [13:38:22] Miraheze's predecessor had its money stolen, the founder ran off and the website was redirected to porn. [13:38:31] Hi! [13:38:34] Sure, but that's one bad actor [13:38:51] This is basically everyone involved acting irrationally, which is less common [13:39:20] Did the request manually. [13:39:24] I don't think when you loose trust in the person in charge of trust & safety, it's irrational to leave. [13:39:37] 😝😝 [13:39:48] It's all just classic internet drama. Everyone goes through this sort of thing, most places just handle it a lot better [13:40:21] These fallouts didn't happen overnight [13:40:36] I needed to listen to the song. I'm hungry [13:41:27] We're not saying this was an overnight thing, but we are saying that this whole thing was avoidable. And given how Miraheze has been around for eight years and has amassed quite a bit of trust, the events that unfolded publicly are sudden in the grand scheme of things. [13:41:48] All things come to a end. I learned that the hard way. ALl things are born, and one day, die. [13:42:07] Two things are inevitable, death and taxes [13:43:32] Once again, I’m asking before everyone decides to jump ship to give myself and labster a honest chance to meet with the board to try to turn things around [13:43:49] I was planning on self hosting for a while, so I would of done it anyway [13:44:44] if things are so unstable, it seems unfeasible to launch anything on the platform that might go under anyways. I need a URL I can always use [13:45:01] Yeah, it's fair to say that we should start preparing for the worst just in case, but just acting like there's zero chance of Miraheze being saved just whips the community up into a frenzy just makes things more difficult to manage. [13:46:09] people need to learn scrapping scripts tho, dump creation is really wonky now [13:46:21] everyone just needs to chill out for a day or two and focus on making back-ups in case the worst happens [13:48:55] Is there any good news to talk about? [13:49:20] Well, legroom told me their wiki was noticed by some eh, book writer something like that [13:49:27] Lol what [13:50:04] music journalist from an independent art-magazine-sorts-of-site lol [13:51:04] Think I used one of those when migrating from fandom to mira [13:51:25] yeah, they should work w/ all MW instances [13:51:53] I think that would make everything significantly easier for me [13:53:08] That is cool! [13:54:59] that's gotta be in like the top 5 coolest thing that can happen to a wiki :D [13:55:48] [1/2] yeee, it boosted my motivation to work on the wiki a lot ... but ... yeah [13:55:49] [2/2] I'm not worried about migration, just sad about all this happening [13:56:22] how does it work exactly? just opens an editor for me [13:56:35] WHere do you plan to host [13:57:01] I’m worried about how I’m gonna learn how to self host [13:57:03] I believe they are talking about manually writing a request [13:57:05] Sorry that link is wrong due to mobile [[SN]] is the right page [13:57:05] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/SN [13:57:06] [13:57:06] I am happy as I did a niceish main page for my wiki [13:57:17] And keep everything secure [13:57:22] ah wrong link problem again lol [13:57:32] Also, I like this image: https://taerel.com/wiki/images/8/86/Lyrodrak_Cold_Roofed_Forest.jpg I AI generated for my wiki [13:57:54] (that's why shortcuts are useful especially for me when I consistently misspell things xD) [13:58:12] MediaWiki has a detailed self install guide [13:58:17] damn this cool lookin [13:58:30] Out of curiosity, will Miraheze stop accepting donations at some point [13:58:39] is the whole shutdown related to that one guy who was kicked out for harassing a bunch of people? [13:58:44] well, in worst case scenario, the only options I can see rn are WT and Telepedia (if something in WT will threw me off really bad) [13:59:00] There is this guide for self hostying: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Installing_MediaWiki [13:59:11] "WT"? [13:59:25] I found that guide really helped me when I installed MediaWiki on boith Linux and Windows [13:59:38] Did you have any backend experience prior to that? [13:59:46] Not before the first time [13:59:52] the new placed founded by Cosmic and other ex volunteers [13:59:56] Then in that case [14:00:00] I find wiki page traversal very annoying to unravel if you’ve never used the shortcut before 🙃 [14:00:00] the free version of the paid wikifarm that was previously planned to be integrated as a subsidiary of MH [14:00:04] No [14:00:07] ah [14:00:21] In that case, I might be able to learn it [14:01:13] [1/2] shortcuts are very useful in every manner, especially when pages moved [14:01:13] [2/2] (of course, if you have a bot that fixes double redirects) [14:01:24] Oh for sure! [14:01:33] I started with MediaWiki, then did one WordPress install (and a failed wordpress installed I could not fix for more then 8 hours), all the times I installed MediaWiki it just worked after I followed the steps the installing guide. (the Windows one worked, but failed later) [14:01:49] But I had no idea SN directs to the page I want 🙃 [14:01:52] Ah… [14:02:10] I'd guess, coz it's the same on Wikimedia Meta lollll [14:02:10] I’ve got windows myself, but I’m gonna be hosting a public server [14:02:51] Linux VPSes are good if you know what you are doing, otherwise, CPanel hosting would be a good idea [14:03:04] Ah, I’m practically new to the management of wiki farms. [14:03:27] still can't see where do I put the request [14:03:31] _I like how the internet learns to have multiple conversations happening at the same time and ignoring others in the same venue XD_ [14:03:58] Linux VPSes are good if you know what you are doing, otherwise, CPanel hosting would be a good idea [14:04:15] In the Miscellaneous section, you'd see a ton of dump requests. Just do the same at the bottom of the page. [14:04:18] I’ve got no Linux knowledge sadly [14:04:20] You can edit the miscellaneous heading to copy a previous request and provide the information related to your wiki [14:04:33] at the very bottom of the page there's Misc section where numerous users left dump requests already [14:04:42] From what little I know about CPanel based shared hsoting is it is all GUIs [14:05:03] thanks everyone [14:05:17] I assume it looks really wonky on IRC side [14:05:25] I see [14:05:40] Budget [14:06:32] @gabbinova RamNode does CPanel hosting from $5 a month ($60 a year), [14:06:37] _Internet_ [14:10:51] Often, you can get cheap CPanel hosting, but it may not be thr best [14:25:02] Oh thank you! [14:27:08] I am a bit curious about the Linux one since I’ve got a tad bit of non-GUI experience [14:28:06] They also do VPSs from $4 a month: https://ramnode.com/products/vps-hosting/ [14:29:12] Thank you so much for the links! [14:30:02] For a 900 page ish wiki, with under 1k veiews a day, I thionk you can get away with a 1GB 2 Cores 25 35GB 2TB $6/mo ($0.009/hr) one [14:31:52] I'm planning on migrating to WikiTide going forward, as long as I get to see you guys again on there. [14:37:57] PNG images can eat disk space quite fast, so, JPGs can save space, abert a bit lossy [14:38:47] Ah… [14:39:40] use webp [14:39:56] We’ve got 6.3k pages and counting, but I feel like we’ve def got less than 1k views a day. BUT we’ve got a lot of images a lot of our templates are reliant on using png files too [14:40:14] hmm [14:41:29] Like we do have webp files and jpgs in use but definitely not as much as pngs….AAAGh I’ve really gotta learn how to do this stuff better😭 [14:41:30] @gabbinova ramNode does large spinning disk (HDD servers) as well [14:41:53] I’ll definitely make sure to look into that! [14:42:39] https://ramnode.com/products/vps-hosting/#massive-kvm [14:42:39] Oh wait I’ve already got a ram node tab open💀 [14:43:04] The $6 a month Massive server has 325GB of disk space [14:54:19] Now I would need to install Linux to used this correct? Or are the servers alone just Linus based? (Sorry if this isn’t making sense I’d just like to know) [14:55:10] The servers are not tyour computer, you need to SSH into them [14:55:29] @gabbinova https://www.ucl.ac.uk/isd/what-ssh-and-how-do-i-use-it#:~:text=SSH%20or%20Secure%20Shell%20is,web%20pages)%20and%20share%20data. [14:58:26] <:Thanks:891416072136323115> [15:01:54] What’s a CPanel alternative I could use if the Linux VPS doesn’t work out for me? (Since I’ve got no Linux experience at all) [15:02:11] One that would support our load [15:03:02] Well, unsure what shared hosting would suggest a large website [15:03:26] I see [15:03:41] <:NotLikeThis:946950222783840256> [15:04:26] The VPSs RamNode offers need you to know command line to some degree, unlike their CPanel offerings [15:05:06] https://www.quicksprout.com/best-cpanel-web-hosting/ - has a few CPanel offering sites listed [15:13:09] Paint.net can make VERY small PNGs, compared to a lot of other programs, if you want good optimization on your PNGs, and it's also pretty good at making JPGs without so much loss of detail. [15:15:33] You can use pngquant/pngcrush/optipng to optimize pngs [15:15:57] oh, a fellow paint.net user, at last [15:16:25] jpg 100% quality is true [15:16:52] Yeah but Paint.net is an all-around art program so you can also use it to trim, convert, and it has solid community support due to open source. If it can't do something then someone on the forums probably made a plugin for it [15:18:29] Yes but with those programs you can create a batch script [15:18:48] I guess well... "crushing" a PNG would make sense if you have a lot of them and so much server space [15:23:31] I'm def not trying to knock on PNG optimizers, they got their use, but I've reduced a 6MB PNG to a 1.5MB one in Paint.net, without any changes to sizes or loss of colors or detail. (Was working with a Morrowind photomanip for layout mockup purposes.) I honestly don't know why PNGs are so bloated up when just resaving them in Paint.net slims them down THAT hard. [15:28:23] Oh I use paint.net all the time [15:32:47] <.hecko#0000, replying to chaoticshadow#0000> (pnggauntlet is an easy graphical program that applies all of these) [15:35:55] [1/2] You should run a quick comparison on your options - paint PNGs, optimized/compressed PNGs, paint JPGs - (and also triage your PNGs, which ones need to be the size they're at and quality they're at, which ones can do with being smaller, etc, that way you can do batches like chaotic pointed out to compress the ones that will suffer the least or are al [15:35:56] [2/2] ready done in Paint PNGs and can't get any smaller) [15:44:59] Hi I just joined, I saw Miraheze was in risk of dying and I'm afraid because I love the platform and I didn't want to lose it so I was wondering what I could do to help just a little [15:46:34] if you are well versed to software like MediaWiki, PHP, SQL or linux, you can be helpful in #tech-community [15:47:16] I'm not too well versed in these specific things, my day job is mostly AI research, not sure if that could help? [15:47:23] [1/2] Lossless should remain lossless [15:47:24] [2/2] Do not recompress JPG files [15:50:19] That's not how you "optimize PNGs" especially that pngquant [15:50:37] pngquant is lossy png compression [15:50:51] That defeats the point of PNGs lol [16:02:31] So. Miraheze is going down in September? [16:03:07] Pnggauntlet [16:03:49] If the SRE member cannot be found and this pit gets deeper and deeper, the MH will be closed on 1 October 2023. [16:04:17] What is sre? [16:04:25] <光纪#9056> *told the situation of Miraheze to my friends [16:04:43] <光纪#9056> he: That must be a group of people flocking in [16:04:46] [[Site Reliability Engineering]] [16:04:46] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Site_Reliability_Engineering [16:04:47] sys admins, roughly speaking [16:04:52] [16:05:01] <光纪#9056> me: 🗿 [16:05:11] So we can say a developer team [16:05:21] Needs programming skills? [16:05:38] Ah ok [16:05:45] ^ [16:06:07] Thank you 🙂 [16:06:41] I know Linux a lot, bit mediawiki, bit PHP. But only superficial, I am not a programmer [16:06:49] @notaracham I know you are not available but can you please pin this message? [16:07:42] you don't have to be a programmer to maintain a system, from my exprience [16:07:59] thank you NA 🙂 [16:08:13] Chunks sizes of PNG can be reduced in lossless way [16:08:21] ❤ [16:08:43] what do i do with the gz file? [16:09:02] from that data dump [16:09:44] You'll end up extracting it and importing it to a new wiki host [16:12:04] ig we'll get more information on how to do that closer to september/october [16:12:48] Yes I believe @notaracham (sry for the ping) is working on a transition guide [16:16:18] I do wish there were some sort of alternative done before telling everyone that miraheze is shuttering. What's done is done. Good kick in the ass for me to self host anyway, still wishing the best for the site and hope a new team can be assembled [16:16:59] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Importing_XML_dumps 🤷 [16:17:25] Could someone put up a global sitenotice, please? [16:18:06] Probably not for now because we're in a period of uncertainty to an extent. Once we see how the next meeting goes then we'll consider it [16:22:58] Accurate. I'm aiming to have a first draft out over the weekend. [16:26:59] Future of Miraheze (? reminds about the Meta-Wiki page "future of the Toolserver" [16:29:31] is there a quick way to put the names of every page into the export? [16:30:35] you should make a dump, not export each page separately [16:30:51] export is mostly used w/ templates [16:31:38] how do i convert the gz file to xml then? [16:31:50] gz is an archive file [16:32:08] you should unpack it, and inside will be xml [16:32:17] how do i unpack it [16:32:40] if you can't open it I suggest to install 7z, it's a nice free program to work w/ archives [16:33:46] what should i open it in [16:34:38] What's WikiTide? I see it's related to WikiForge but not sure how exactly. [16:35:05] It's a wiki farm that's composed of most Miraheze volunteers who left. It's the free counterpart of WikiForge [16:36:00] [16:36:57] [1/3] but you know what - why do you even need to open it? [16:36:57] [2/3] you won't get thing from xml file, like you won't be able to read all articles [16:36:58] [3/3] xml is purely for import to another place [16:38:16] [1/2] @agent [16:38:16] [2/2] can you check https://discord.com/channels/407504499280707585/1119180650910593116 and https://discord.com/channels/407504499280707585/1118827248661827674 please? [16:40:44] what one do i use? [16:41:41] 7zFM [16:42:07] again ^ [16:43:05] then once it's open a file in a browser i just save that? [16:43:09] Hey look. all of them have the same name lol [16:44:05] wow [16:44:29] gonna be honest also - didn’t expect a unanimous vote thus far but wow i’m honored [16:44:50] anyway, what’s new with everyone? aside from the whole miraheze shutting down thing. [16:47:26] [1/4] in that program you find your gz file [16:47:26] [2/4] click on it twice [16:47:26] [3/4] you'll see there's xml [16:47:26] [4/4] then you should extract it - there's larger `-` above [16:48:59] then when i import it what do i put as the interwiki prefix [16:49:28] first you should see how much file's size [16:49:45] 3493kb [16:49:53] if it's too much you won't be able to import it by yourself [16:50:14] [1/2] well, that's a lot [16:50:15] [2/2] I'm really getting annoyed by slow mode [16:50:55] Disabling slow mode, make good choices, all. [16:50:58] thanks [16:51:35] Yay [16:52:05] if you are moving to WT, I guess you'll have to use their Phab to create import request and give them the file [16:52:23] going fandom atm [16:52:42] hm [16:52:44] What wiki hosters are you all going to? I am going to Wikitide, and some might be going to Fandom I see [16:53:01] I never questioned how FANDOM does imports [16:53:15] guess you'll have to contact them by yourself [16:53:19] just this [16:54:04] there's is also Telepedia - basically UK based FANDOM [16:54:26] wiki.gg is only for games [16:55:53] my current plan is self-host, though I'm still looking into other options [17:05:50] lost another one to fandom [17:07:04] WikiTide has a page you can use to make an import request once your wiki is approved [17:08:20] Yeah, instad of panicking, I'd give it some time. [17:08:58] Just kidding, even I'm a bit unsure. [17:10:03] [1/3] it's a miracle Miraheze existed for 6+ years unnoticed [17:10:03] [2/3] then suddenly gets famous [17:10:04] [3/3] then this happens [17:13:01] almost 8 actually [17:13:42] I meant before got popular, but overall 8 yeah [17:23:15] The crisis [17:23:26] Is there any way to resolve this crisis? [17:25:54] Still having this problem. Since I had this exact problem before before all this happened, I don't think it's just a case of the server being overloaded. [17:28:38] This crisis has unfortunately following some recent actions, become unreasonable now I'm afraid [17:31:38] What exactly is that supposed to mean? [17:32:14] what the fuck is going on #tech-community [17:32:41] No idea [17:33:20] Due to allegations made about me and Paladox, we are both planning to leave within 24 hours. I am therefore, not able to engage with a peaceful handover, as this was requested by the reporter that we are removed from any positions of power in Miraheze as soon as possible. [17:33:58] What the hell.. this is not at all what any of us want [17:34:45] CA left completely, why it even matters to you? [17:35:31] @owenrb does that not mean we have no bank account? And therefore we are insolvent ? [17:35:58] Yeh [17:37:52] This is but a small example of why compliance lawyers (in general) need to be kept as far as possible from anything important. [17:38:03] <[baws]#7595> how do i request an image dump? [17:38:20] ...do we still get time to export our stuff or are you going to pull that rug from under us too? [17:38:28] <[baws]#7595, replying to [baws]#7595> lemme guess, phabricator? [17:38:37] I will do my up most best to give Miraheze the technically certainty before I go however [17:39:16] I know Tide require 1 UK based director [17:39:45] @orduin you are wanted urgently please [17:39:48] Who will manage our finances after your departure? [17:40:06] Miraheze is closing earlier then expected it looks like [17:40:14] how much earlier? [17:40:21] There does not appear to be an answer to that question right now [17:40:32] We don't know [17:41:22] This is messed up [17:41:35] Can it be salvaged? [17:41:59] if UO takes his accusations/threats back? [17:42:00] @owenrb this is clearly [[wikipedia:SLAPP]] [17:42:00] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/wikipedia:SLAPP [17:42:01] [17:42:10] what is that sticker 😄 [17:42:17] common guys how much we should hit rock bottom [17:42:28] can we at least get help getting in the liferafts before you abandon ship [17:42:42] Any task you need done? [17:42:55] I can handle data dumps right now [17:43:09] how do i do image dumps or whatever again [17:43:09] https://phabricator.miraheze.org/T10979 [17:43:17] We need strong and stable leadership. I don't know who, but we need to transfer ownership and transfer it fast. NOW. [17:43:24] You ask a Steward to do that, what wiki? [17:43:32] https://hitman.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page [17:43:45] best thing for us to do: get the WikiForge team back to MH [17:44:04] call out to every wiki, try to get some volunteers [17:44:06] That's easier said than done, though [17:44:13] get a youtuber to promote this issue and try to solve it [17:44:19] panic and hope someone notices [17:44:30] Get Sunnyv2 to make a video about Miraheze [17:44:34] god no [17:44:36] or have MrBeast donate [17:44:37] ...The Rise and Fall of Miraheze? [17:44:42] there are also several people in support who are having the same problem as me [17:44:50] Wow! MR beast [17:44:53] I might make a video about Miraheze. [17:44:53] So what the fuck is happening [17:45:03] Why can't there be a peaceful transition [17:45:07] https://phabricator.miraheze.org/T10981 [17:45:08] Panic in-and-of-itself is not entirely useful. There were folks yesterday (and today) who are investigating a solution but the situation seems to be actively evolving [17:45:13] "Miraheze was a wiki farm with a promising future; however, due to conflict and drama, it fell apart quickly." [17:45:13] https://tenor.com/view/mrbeast-ytpmv-rap-battle-squid-game-squid-game-vs-mrbeast-gif-25491394 [17:45:27] MRBEAST!!! [17:45:28] There's some panic right now but I'd ask people to calm down as nothing is definitive. [17:45:32] I'm so fucking tired of y'all drama [17:45:50] So is Miraheze gonna die like, tomorrow now? [17:46:00] where the stewards at [17:46:02] https://tenor.com/view/mrbeast-beast-shopmrbeast-gif-22059259 [17:46:11] No, don't doomsay [17:46:15] I have like six months of hardwork that I have not dumped yet, and will be lost if I don't get it dumped. Kind of hard to calm down. [17:46:20] I am YouTuber [17:46:26] Agent is steward [17:46:40] Void is the only sre and macfan is the only mediawiki engineer [17:46:40] I'm juggling a lot of things now so apologies if I miss your ping or DM [17:46:49] I understand [17:46:58] [1/2] THE END ᵢₛ NEₐR [17:46:58] [2/2] that's all [17:47:00] Well then what are y'all gonna d [17:47:01] @Discord Administrators please remove my sre tags [17:47:02] MrBeast is rich but doesn't buy Turks 😦 [17:47:18] haven't dumped the wiki since april, gonna do that [17:47:26] TBD but we can't doomsay definitively if nothing has been decided in concrete [17:47:36] fcc i cant dump [17:47:45] https://tenor.com/view/smile-g%C3%BCl%C3%BC%C5%9F-rte-recep-tayyip-erdo%C4%9Fan-erdo%C4%9Fan-gif-13676787 [17:47:50] Why can't Owen transfer everything out [17:47:55] owen is saying some pretty contrete stuff [17:48:00] but this is turkey's MrBeast [17:48:06] He's resigning [17:48:14] Head 🇹🇷 [17:48:17] Agent, can we still have trust in you? [17:48:17] finally it deleted [17:48:21] He can't transfer the bank accounts out? [17:48:21] he shouldn't resign! [17:48:36] https://hitman.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page [17:48:47] gonna go out and when I come back miraheze better not be gone [17:48:47] This is ridiculous [17:48:49] Owen has committed to an orderly transition and he's a man of his word so I trust he'll do everything possible to make sure everything is taken care of before he resigns [17:48:57] Yes [17:49:03] At this point, I've lost all trust with Miraheze. I'm sorry. [17:49:06] Who is going to take his place [17:49:16] Another director will likely be appointed [17:49:17] All recent communication with Miraheze has been clear as mud. [17:49:18] @owenrb then confirm this [17:49:18] im gonna dump images manually [17:49:46] Done, per request [17:49:51] Thanks! [17:50:00] @agentisai Agent, please rethink this. Okay, sometimes there are arguments, it happens in Türkiye too. But it is ridiculous to go and open a separate place called WikiForge. Please think twice before resigning with your team at Miraheze. [17:50:07] So are you maintaining infrastructure or anything/ [17:50:13] Can someone explain a bit why some idiot is supposed to have this much influence on the project? [17:50:18] I will do my up most best to give Miraheze the technically certainty before I go however [17:50:19] No, I’m gone [17:50:45] I’m not going to court over miraheze. [17:50:48] (meaning the person threatening litigation, of course) [17:51:02] All likelihood is that they’re not either. [17:51:11] These discussions will of course be resolved. But you need to think a lot about the wiki farm that you spent 7 years of your life on before you retire. [17:51:13] I’m not going to take that risk [17:51:39] I do understand this tbh. [17:51:48] If Miraheze shuts down on October 1, my 2-year Miraheze life will come to an end. Please do not resign. I beg [17:52:14] Community members are planning potential alternatives and how to save Miraheze [17:52:30] If the amount of people who pledged to help Miraheze do pull through then I envision a sunny future [17:52:48] Conversations are rapidly enhancing in pace [17:52:51] I never wanted to do this [17:52:56] I just want off this boat. [17:53:00] guess we need slow mode [17:53:02] But we might have to summon the savior volunteers [17:53:10] Who are they? [17:53:14] Buying out WikiTide and WikiForge would be an idea. [17:53:14] Slow mode is currently enabled [17:53:24] I don’t know, but we need to recruit them to save miraheze [17:53:41] Someone raise slow mode in here this is too much to keep up with. [17:53:53] Agent Isai, your resignation will be a great loss for Miraheze. If we connect WikiForge and WikiTide to Miraheze's additional services; The popularity of the service increases and there is no division, no cost [17:53:54] Seriously, we need to spend what little money we have on promotions to get more donations [17:54:09] I say again please don't resign. whatever happens [17:54:22] No one would donate to a service like this at this point, sorry. [17:54:26] the resignation happened [17:54:51] If Miraheze survives, fundraiser will be an uphill challenge [17:54:52] You've made your position on this clear. Continuing it repeat it is not helpful to further conversations. The volunteers helping to run this service are entitled to make the decisions they deem best for themselves. [17:54:55] The Board has threatened to close the project and now a bunch of people are resigning again because of outside threats. That does not spell "stability" [17:54:57] Miraheze wouldn't be without you. [17:55:04] ❤<:mirahezelogo:446641749142798339> [17:55:23] I have some professional background in fundraising [17:55:35] I trust Agent for Miraheze. [17:55:46] A strong hand must control miraheze. [17:55:52] Will keep that in mind for the next fundraiser, thanks \:) [17:55:55] Someone who loves miraheze. [17:56:04] @agentisai? [17:56:12] Someone who can use the funds properly. [17:56:21] Someone who can calm people down. [17:56:31] Raised [17:56:39] I'm staying on to help in the transition/wind down/salvaging if possible [17:56:44] I am all of these things, only I have no knowledge of HTML. [17:57:17] are you based in the UK [17:57:21] Turkiye, first and last warning to stop sharing big meme pictures based on my avatar. [17:57:25] Nope [17:57:39] So I’m not only unprepared miraheze is too [17:57:43] then you can't help with the transition as much as you think. [17:57:45] if all people were resigning every time a troll threatened them, no work on Earth would ever get done [17:58:00] thank you kindly. [17:58:03] Wise words [17:58:51] What's done is done with Paladox. Just forget about that. Focus on Owen becuase there needs to a plan for him to leave [17:59:08] An idea for thought: [17:59:32] The person with the steadiest hand probably doesn’t live in the UK [17:59:54] Someone should buy a domain like miraheze.com and install Mediawiki [18:00:05] Then transplant wikis there [18:00:14] we own miraheze.com [18:00:18] Crazy idea, but crazy times call for crazy solutions [18:00:22] Other wiki farms do exist for people to transfer wikis to if they want to [18:00:28] It wouldn't be appropriate for other people to just randomly take the name and do their own thing [18:00:29] Stupid idea [18:00:34] You need that for legal reasons. You're crazy ideas aren't helpful. [18:00:37] Well tbh there's not many that are close to Miraheze [18:00:54] I tried 😦 [18:01:10] Anyways [18:01:25] https://tenor.com/view/cepeda-luis-cepeda-boat-barca-remar-gif-18127978 [18:01:37] Lifeboat time [18:01:57] this. I want Miraheze to succeed because it exists as the only nonprofit alternative to Fandom. [18:03:10] Tbh I do sympathise with those who say they’ve lost trust in miraheze. I would if I was in the same boat. [18:03:15] No other wikifarm offers the freedom, independence, and support that I can get with Miraheze. The problem lies with its sustainability as a project. [18:03:50] I don't want Miraheze to fail either; just so its clear. 🙂 [18:06:11] Ok, another idea: say that mh will refund everyone if it shuts down, then launch promotions [18:06:57] Wont matter if we have nowhere for the funds to go, we literally do not have a bank account if owen resigns [18:07:14] We wait until that jappens, then we act [18:07:26] I’ll see where we are tomorrow [18:08:00] [1/3] Owen cannot resign unless: [18:08:01] [2/3] 1) The company is dissolved [18:08:01] [3/3] or 2) He finds and appoints a successor to manage the bank accounts for Miraheze. [18:08:06] @!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! when Owen leaves, Tide will suspend the amount immediately [18:08:09] we're effectively down to 2 SRE now [18:08:21] Not true [18:08:25] Yes he can. There is no requirement for orderly transfer. [18:08:31] This is how Owen explained it to@me [18:08:46] and others in past discussions a week ago [18:08:46] Those were the terms he initally gave but its not a legal requirement [18:08:49] His leaving would cause us to be dissolved [18:09:01] so fill me in [18:09:17] i haven’t been around for the past few hours [18:09:29] bit confused now [18:09:33] If we have no Owen, we have no bank account. If we have no bank account, we are insolvent. [18:09:38] There are discussions in motion to potentially transfer power in the event of Owen's departure. [18:09:49] Owen will resign? [18:10:00] How long would Miraheze survive under this scenario [18:10:03] Yes, CA threatened legal action against him and Paladox. [18:12:11] I guess I'll create a wiki dump instead of caring about this since at this rate, Miraheze can easily turn off the servers tomorrow because of some stupid threats. [18:12:16] Okay I will be back shortly [18:12:33] @notaracham/@reception123 please see DMs urgently [18:13:27] Basically how I feel about this tbh, it sounds like the situation got worst since last night. D: [18:14:01] So for you guys,what wiki does you wanted to move？ [18:14:17] Im discussing. [18:14:53] ( There's #Alternative Wiki Hosting Services ) [18:15:01] naggieka I'm sorry but things are a little heated here [18:15:06] To not flood the existing discussion [18:15:19] ok [18:17:03] Until ServerChoice decide to suspend services [18:18:07] As soon as that bill became due, either Void or ServerChoice would be able to apply to the court to close us. [18:18:36] So less than a month for sure [18:18:46] The bill is quarterly [18:18:53] just been paid iirc too? [18:18:54] Oh [18:19:05] Let me find the dates [18:19:05] oh wait 2 months ago? [18:19:29] 2023-04-27 [18:19:41] looks like the last payment per Finance [18:19:50] Hmm yeah, so I think it would be end of this month then [18:20:12] We'd technically be insolvent as soon as Owen left but we'd have an argument we had time to recover stuff [18:20:40] But theoretically we could remain operational until the next bill? [18:20:42] As soon as we are in debt of over £750, we're screwed [18:21:03] How does this even work though.....we'd need to open a whole new bank account, which supposedly in the UK is near impossible for us [18:21:25] Yeah we aren't going to survive without another UK based director once @owenrb goes [18:22:52] How long does it typically take for an XML data dump to be generated? Mine’s been showing as queued for a while now. [18:23:07] how large is your wiki? [18:23:17] if it's really big it might need a manual one and only MacFan can do those now [18:23:28] if needed though I'd be willing to help with those if I am given temporary access back [18:23:36] To everybody: please be aware that due to low SRE capacity, and the sheer number of requests that we are getting it may take some time to process dump requests. I'm doing what I can, but dumps take time [18:23:45] Who is CA? [18:24:01] CA is CosmicAlpha, former SRE and Director. [18:24:07] Ah [18:24:10] A few hundred pages [18:24:34] To answer the immediate question, I have made a proposal to Void to do a transfer of assets to him. I will not let Miraheze go offline earlier than October as agreed, and transfering assets is the best way to give Void, Labster and Zppix the best opportunity to keep the project alive. [18:25:08] I need to distance myself as quickly as possible - but I will not allow it to happen to the detriment of the project [18:25:31] Thank you, thank you, thank you. [18:25:44] How exactly would that work, just curious considering void isnt in the UK? [18:26:56] Somehow make Miraheze a U.S. company? [18:27:38] it seems like Void is going to hold the assets personally from the way its worded... [18:27:50] which is... not ideal. [18:28:28] alright ... no more panic ... [18:28:47] I already wanted to storm into CA dms [18:29:07] but at this point, I really don't trust WT [18:29:12] I mean.. maybe a little panic. Void holding the assets personally would still make MH insolvent. [18:29:26] Transfer to him as an individual [18:29:54] Thats what I thought, I mean I would agree thats a good interim solution [18:29:59] @cookmeplox you might be interested in these new developments [18:30:01] Yeah same, was sceptic from the start about WT, but now I flat out distrust it [18:30:09] @owenrb This is still a problem though [18:30:27] And a Board cannot consist of one member, if you left Miraheze would dissolve [18:30:49] WT = Wikitide? [18:30:54] I already got bad first taste w/ absolutely random accusations at me [18:30:58] it can [18:31:04] What were the accusations? [18:31:14] This is likely not the venue for this discussion [18:31:17] enough with the accusations. It's not helpful! [18:31:18] why's that? [18:31:22] As established on [[board]] it says it takes one member to appoint other members to the five seats [18:31:22] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/board [18:31:25] [18:31:26] don't tell you missed ir [18:31:31] who cares. ignore this. [18:31:33] Actually if you have problems with WT and want to discuss, just DM me. It's easier. [18:31:40] 5 appointed seats which are appointments made by the existing Board to people whom they decide add value to the organisation and direction of the company. These seats traditionally will go to people unconnected to the project and act as external seats. [18:31:49] @owenrb so Miraheze Limited will cease and the project will be ran by Void as a person. Has void agreed that? [18:31:56] ^^^ [18:32:08] As long as one member is on the board, they constitute the existing board and thus can appoint members to the 5 seats [18:32:15] The formal plan hasn't been made yet, so we can't really answer question on how it would work until it is done. [18:32:17] Again.....no one wants to serve on the board as is while it's in the UK [18:32:29] talthiel shush for a second. we get it, but you aren't listening. [18:32:41] @orduin yey, you are here! [18:32:43] I did [18:32:49] I assume Owen has thought about that part though [18:32:55] anywho [18:33:51] @orduin I highly recommend creating an LLC ASAP rather than holding the assets personally. Even if we make a new nonprofit corporation later, an LLC will shield you from liability. [18:33:58] Why would Owen transfer everything to those three if in the process he just dissolved the governing body of the company [18:34:06] <.gtbot#0000, replying to bwm0#0000> Why dose being in the uk matter? [18:34:10] Void and I will discuss the details later and come to an outcome that is in the best interests of the project and give the best chance of survival [18:34:36] laws?? [18:34:37] Miraheze Ltm is currently registered in the UK [18:34:56] <_chrs_#0000> also the physical servers [18:34:57] Miraheze Limited itself is not dissolved and will not be dissolved until October, or sooner if we can build a replacement for it. [18:35:00] <.gtbot#0000> Well yes but why dose this effect joining the board? [18:35:08] when you do, maybe make an official post after words to the effect of "hey we might not be closing after all" [18:35:47] fellas, I think this is getting too much [18:35:49] This should be pinned and/or a summary of the current status should be placed in #announcements. If the latter is chosen however, the update should aim to be complete and cover the situation in as much detail as is currently available including acknowledging questions that have no immediate answers. [18:35:56] I don't know how you can make that kind of commitment, but alright. [18:36:35] Is Miraheze limited the primary thing? [18:36:46] That is the formal company correct [18:37:14] Right now there just needs to be at least one board member, who is a resident of the UK I believe [18:38:09] Otherwise the company is insolvent right? [18:38:20] <.gtbot#0000> That can’t be too hard can it? [18:39:00] I don't think speculating on the outcome of Owen/Void/etc's current conversation and transition plans will be useful. I'm sure they are better informed as to any legal requirements and how they will need to account for them [18:39:22] it's not insolvent because Owen hasn't resigned yet or moved assets yet. The moment that happens, MH is insolvent. Either way, what @lichmaster98 said. [18:39:41] So far, I've seen many more people saying "we just need a UK based person" than anyone from the UK, who'd have community trust, stepping up to fill that position [18:39:49] then how will the board thing work [18:39:55] Please just wait until Void and Owen converse [18:40:03] the bank account owner needs to be British no? [18:40:09] you. ignore. it. stop wondering about these details. [18:40:16] lel fine [18:40:28] <.gtbot#0000, replying to lichmaster98#0000> Well of course you would, most people are not from the UK [18:40:37] Owen, Void and a number of interested parties are working on it. They are very busy places discussing it now. [18:41:24] yeah, let's relax .. [18:42:20] This was a interesting detour, but for now lets relax, we seem to be getting back on track. So lets just let things happen ok [18:42:48] Anyone think I can help with something in the meantime? [18:43:11] for the record, I am not going to bother requesting my wikis be dumped. I plan on letting them go down with ship. [18:43:25] @bwm0 no [18:43:33] Not really. Just keep people in the loop and interested. [18:43:37] Unless you got some headache tablets [18:43:50] I need to get some for myself, this is insanity.... [18:52:37] I think what's best now that Owen and Void are talking is to let them discuss and make an announcement after they conclude their talks. [18:57:45] not good [19:03:08] and will come after that [19:04:23] [1/2] @Stewards @Site Reliability Engineers @Meta-Wiki Administrators Due to the change I made in Miraheze Login Wiki ([[Special:MobileDiff/13662]]], my HeyTürkiye account, my accounts starting with 'HeyTürkiye', my Abuç account were deleted, the contributions of these accounts were removed, their usernames changed to 'Deleted User', my Phabricator account was deleted. I request it to [19:04:23] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/13662 [19:04:24] [2/2] be deleted and the administrators of Wikiforge and WikiTide to delete my 2 accounts. Kind regards [19:04:24] [19:04:55] [[loginwiki:Special:MobileDiff/13662]] [19:04:55] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/loginwiki:Special:MobileDiff/13662 [19:04:56] [19:05:14] Please make wikiforge/wikitide request in their discord server [19:05:37] Let NotAracham forward it. [19:05:49] Good bye Miraheze! [19:06:16] Go away [19:06:58] For the record, I am the one who timed you out after you were warned not to make unpertinent comments here [19:07:03] You were also warned yesterday [19:07:47] Those pings are excessive aren't they [19:07:58] Very [19:07:58] I don't care who did the timeout. Just do my request above. [19:07:59] To clarify here though, Miraheze was given 30 days to respond to UO's email. [19:08:03] @xenareee please don't engage [19:08:10] Good bye [19:08:29] I'm not completely sure why we're doing this "leave within 24 hours" stuff when there's a minimum of 30 days. [19:08:30] <@718374283642011728> you've said bye. Everyone here is tired and trying hard. Please just leave. [19:08:46] @bwm0 just let them solve it. [19:08:48] oi [19:08:49] If you want to leave feel free to do so, but there's no need to keep repeating "bye". We gave you many chances but you continued. [19:08:57] Apologies [19:08:57] He left the server [19:08:58] Pushing more questions ain't helping [19:09:21] No but the question is why are we speedrunning it? [19:09:50] There was concern in the channel because Owen's original post mentioned a 24 hour timeline, its since been clarified that he's going to help ensure a transition. [19:10:03] what's the interwiki prefix? [19:10:13] Not sure where that timeline came from as the one I've been informed of is 30 days. [19:10:27] Emotions are high. [19:10:28] And that's to just respond to the email. [19:10:43] Right and my point is if we slow down, emotions can cool and more rational decisions can be made. [19:10:48] Arguably, CA's demands don't mean much. [19:10:49] https://discord.com/channels/407504499280707585/407537962553966603/1119318809048784947 This was the original post made here [19:10:58] Please just let Void, Owen and the many people involved in discussions get on with them. They are to my understanding so far productive. [19:11:13] Legal action is legal action, at the end of the day. [19:11:24] does he have the funds to support such actions? [19:11:34] Yes, I would assume os [19:11:50] Discussion on legal action is not conducive to being supportive of volunteers [19:11:51] Can we not [19:11:52] Discussing the plausibility of any legal action seems pointless here [19:11:59] I've seen it but all Owen said is that he intends to leave in 24 hours. Not that he has to. [19:12:06] @bwm0 STOP [19:12:27] this discussion is more painful than watching Mercedes in the F1 😛 [19:12:29] Read the messages after. [19:12:43] Let's stop spreading news about what people said and what they didn't. He clarified later on. [19:12:49] Well someone broke the CCTV so I don't have that option [19:12:51] Why? I still haven't seen one good reason why I should shut up aside from "it's not helpful" when in reality, it could help. [19:13:00] This discussion doesn't seem conducive anymore so I suggest dropping it and waiting for the Board's announcement. [19:13:08] gotta get onto that Red Bull hype [19:13:16] Should we just make this channel read-only temporarily? Legitimate support requests can go in the #support forum. [19:13:17] @bwm0 because you aren't helping. You're not sat down with void and Owen discussing things. [19:13:29] I imagine people will just overflow into different channels [19:13:29] I've extended slowmode. [19:13:57] I understand people are emotional but there is no point speculating or causing panic, it won't help at all. We need to wait to hear more from Void and Owen. [19:14:11] That's because I wasn't invited to do so. If I was, I'd be happy to share my ideas, but it's been made clear by you that you don't think they're of worth to anyone. [19:14:33] Agreed, this is the path forward at this point. There is literally nothing else that anyone in this room can say that will help. [19:14:48] No one suggested that. We suggested that saying the thing about Owen was inappropriate and out of context given that he later made clarifications. [19:14:51] [1/2] Your original question I was answering was "why do people think there is a 24 hour timeline". I tried to provide the context as to why that was immediately believed to be the case. Further clarifications have evolved that original post and clarified it. [19:14:52] [2/2] Responding to comments that didn't have that timeline clarification with 'why is the 24-hour timeline important' is unhelpful. [19:17:27] Yeah. Sure. Let's take a break. It's probably what we all need anyway. [19:20:23] How likely it is that requests for custom domains will be approved/done in the current atmosphere? I am trying to come up with a possible transition plan for my own wiki and "stop using miraheze.org" seems like one of the "musts" here. [19:20:48] I don't imagine they'll be processed for a while [19:21:06] only MacFan can and the priority is dumps right now [19:21:26] [1/2] I just wanted to say that it's almost 2 years since Rain World migrated from Fandom to Mira and the site has been a fantastic safe haven for wiki development and growth throughout :) It's rare to come across a service that provides that level of autonomy and support for free and as a community we'll be forever thankful for the work put in and the support given <:slughug:1119005 [19:21:26] [2/2] 907746029628> Managing volunteer services like this can be a thankless task; we've always appreciated the care and diligence clearly visible in the organisation. [19:21:29] and ones that are done with nameservers need Void too [19:21:30] Yes dumps are my top priority, and thus SSL requests are on hold for now [19:21:48] Thank you! [19:21:58] Thanks for the kind words! We're glad you chose us and enjoyed the service until now [19:23:02] Thanks for the responses, got it (that we can't do anything other than be the dog in "this is fine" meme). [19:23:47] That dog always looked fairly content [19:25:39] Thank you Miraheze for changing my whole online life. It was great to see it thrive especially during the best times, but everything comes to an end. [19:29:06] [1/2] I've learned a lot after joining Miraheze, that's very valuable things [19:29:07] [2/2] and my wiki, although still in infancy (to me at least), it got fairly established, I won't repeat what happened recently lol [19:29:40] also, guess on 19th it's gonna be 2 years since I joined [19:32:14] #tech-community "Miraheze Ltd was merged with the Heritage Foundation" [19:33:20] reference? [19:33:34] I am making a joke [19:33:53] Oh; I entirely missed that [19:33:57] Oh absolutely the same; I don't think I'd have ever learned css or anything like that had we not made the move :) [19:34:09] Would advise against making jokes of that type at the moment. [19:34:12] @thelevking could you add a note that it's a joke please? We don't want to spread misinformation here and people are likely not to get that it's a joke [19:34:20] sure [19:35:05] i had some experience before fandom went downhill but ive really had a lot of fun figuring out how to make working templates and articles thanks to miraheze having a clean and ad-free interface really motivated me to keep up with it [19:35:18] I mean, I was juggling w/ CSS since FANDOM but I had no idea how limited FANDOM is and how much stuff there's to have [19:35:25] What’s the heritage foundation [19:35:53] conservative advocacy group (bad joke maybe) [19:35:54] it was a joke... Not the best timing I must say [19:35:56] Oh a conservative foundation. [19:52:19] I would also like to say that it's been wonderful to have a wiki here for 1.5 years after we moved from Fandom. Miraheze has so much freedom and opportunities to learn new things. I'm grateful to everyone who contributed, supported, and to those working on the current situation. Thank you 💚 [19:54:53] And, hey, at least this mess finally got me to learn how self-hosting works. Still more learning experiences to come 😛 [20:05:17] [1/3] Hey! I'm not rly active here but I just wanted to say a quick thank you to the Miraheze team for the quality service they had provided over the past two years since we opened our project wiki. We really appreciate it, so thank you! 💖 [20:05:17] [2/3] -- [20:05:18] [3/3] Also, is there a way to request a wiki dump? 🤔 [20:07:03] Special:DataDump, file a ticket on Phabricator to request image dump [20:07:11] Dumps can be done via Special:DataDump but are slow [20:07:48] Yeah, sadly dumps are done one at a time, so now a very big wiki is delaying dumps for everyone else. [20:08:27] Would be great if image dumps and text dumps were separate queues, but that is not how it was coded. [20:08:34] insert that picture w/ huge man drinking a lot from a tube while skinny man gets some drips of water lol [20:09:16] Unfortunately, you also need to delete the previous dump if you request a new dump, so save the previous one if you request a new one. [20:10:49] [1/2] I also want to say a big thank you to Miraheze and all the volunteers that have made this possible. We've decided to migrate to self-hosting, but without Miraheze the project probably wouldn't have been possible at all. And huge kudos to Owen for making as much as he can to keep this running in the immediate/short term despite everything. I wish you all the best and hope Mira [20:10:50] [2/2] heze can recover! ❤️ [20:20:10] gawd everyone is making these goodbye messages, is it truly over? [20:20:24] Humanity always finds a way. [20:21:08] no, just showing our love and thanks [20:21:40] [1/2] I personally still have a hope, albeit very small [20:21:41] [2/2] can't see into the future [20:21:47] that's a comforting word but the way you phrased this is so eerie, like you're a biblically accurate angel appearing in front of me to speak in riddles [20:22:21] I literally stole that quote from Jurassic park [20:22:53] well remember, we didn't have hope with those disks fiasco and YET [20:24:13] People are working very hard. No one is going to give up until there is no other choice. We have to be honest though. It's also fairly turbulent [20:25:48] we suffered more than jesus [20:37:08] [1/2] Sorry I couldn't help much with the situation. [20:37:08] [2/2] Thank you folks for providing this amazing wiki hosting service, you folks are the best team I have met. [21:01:50] About what I saw in #announcements... [21:02:30] Wait. You're not trying to tell me my sites will be terminated, are you? 😱 [21:02:46] As of October 1, currently, yes. [21:03:17] Currently, it's all up in the air though as to whether or not those plans will prevail. [21:03:42] Has anyone tried to see if there's any external interest in this place [21:04:01] Oh no! 😦 [21:05:01] https://discord.com/channels/407504499280707585/1119154807362556024 [21:05:17] And I've joint in order to create my own Wikis. [21:05:44] whoops sorry, I've misread your question [21:06:10] I've just made a wiki n all [21:07:31] [1/2] I personally still have a hope, although very small [21:07:32] [2/2] in worst case scenario there are alternatice and migration process, just like folks been moving from FANDOM [21:08:01] do you guys still hate wikitide [21:08:04] Don't know. I don't have an account at Fandom. [21:09:03] ah well, it's an easy process anyway [21:09:15] That means, I had once, but I was forced to close it. [21:09:47] [1/3] who "you"? [21:09:47] [2/3] you can bring it all you want at this point [21:09:47] [3/3] I personally don't trust it [21:10:05] Toxic people. They argued with me, attacked me and in the end I was forced to close my account. Don't know if I will even return to Fandom. 😐 [21:10:14] you is collective [21:10:38] oh no, I didn't mean to return to FANDOM, we can never return there xd [21:11:10] I closed it permanently, can't return permanently, so you understand. [21:11:46] But I still have hope I'll return one day. [21:31:19] i just killed off the dump that was holding them all up, as it was going to be too bug for swift anyway [21:31:54] the 40k files one? [21:31:58] yes [21:32:08] big* [21:33:59] Macfan4000, try to give folks a set time to download dumps in batches and remove as way to manage storage on swift. Set a timer [21:34:27] I did notice my dumbs (data+managewiki dumps) got done yeah [21:34:53] the issue is that swift refuses to accept files larger then 5GB [21:35:21] Can you try to further compress? [21:35:53] Is there alternative storage? [21:36:14] don't know, the current plan for public wikis is to push the dumps to the internet archive [21:36:22] at least the big ones [21:37:30] MacFan4000: internet archive have said they are happy to take xml, image and ManageWiki dumps for all [21:37:38] Well WikiTeam [21:40:19] for obvious reasons, dumps for private wikis will not go there [21:40:42] Yea [21:41:33] though I wouldn't expect a private wiki to have quite so many images [21:44:29] aight, good night [21:47:10] @mywikis can't auth via the bot, can someone authorize them manually or is that not a possibility? [21:47:45] Thanks for the help! [21:49:03] @mywikis any error? [21:49:11] let me try: www.google.com [21:49:35] With /auth ? [21:49:57] No it doesn't work still. /auth doesn't send me back anything [21:50:28] It keeps saying "I will send you the links in a direct message in a second." but then I don't get anything in my DMs [21:50:36] Are your DMs open [21:51:10] Maybe check message requests? [21:52:53] They are open. I don't have any message requests. I tried typing "/auth" directly into the DM with the bot (which didn't work either), so I don't think it'd be stuck in message requests [21:59:52] @ivork [22:16:56] [1/2] I'm guessing there's no hope then for recovering anything that was on the discussion boards? 🤔 [22:16:57] [2/2] Either way, it saddens me that things have come to this, but it is what it is, right? [22:21:34] Thank you admins for everything you’ve done for us [22:28:41] Let's hope Mira will survive this little crisis. [22:38:35] for me I am totally thanked to voluteers of mh，Volunteers are very enthusiastic and treat people from different countries equally.So I prey to mh. [22:42:59] Is there a glimmer of hope? [22:43:05] probably [22:54:10] what do yall suggest to transfer to incase miraheze dies [22:55:48] #Alternative Wiki Hosting Services [23:05:04] Is MyWikis hard to transfer to? [23:05:32] Ask in the forum thread. There's a representative that can answer [23:11:29] I ask about this earlier, it seems it's just "Sign up, make a new blank wiki, then import your old wiki using the XML dump you generated from Miraheze". [23:12:00] Oh right. It's late here, I forgot >-> [23:12:17] But yeah, feel free to ask for further details in the forum thread too!👍 [23:12:38] Goodnight! <:pupCoffeeMH:766487840694599711> [23:14:23] Had to go [23:14:58] I believe they will come back later though [23:15:31] Was in DM, advised to contact sales [23:37:55] Thank you! [23:40:19] Miraheze won’t die [23:41:03] At least, I hope it gets saved someone [23:41:35] Meta has been eerily silent in regards to this, so I think there’s still hope [23:41:47] Oh yeah, Meta exists [23:42:03] Wait there's a wiki attached to this, I thought it was just a discord/irc chat /s [23:43:31] If this was a serious issue there would be a gigantic pop up on all wikis or at the very least meta would be filled with stuff related to this [23:44:27] Maybe the stewards are doing a little trolling [23:44:34] No this is a serious issue [23:44:47] Can't troll if there's no Stewards left [23:45:19] we do a little lack of effective communication 🙃 [23:47:23] https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-squarepants-patrick-star-panic-attack-panicking-arghh-gif-26553319 [23:47:59] Me after seeing that miraheze was just trolling about the shutdown: [23:48:22] Plot twist: this was just an elaborate ploy to get more volunteers [23:48:38] https://tenor.com/view/troll-troll-face-gif-25116980 [23:48:43] Agent pls [23:49:15] hey, it's work \:P /s [23:49:36] at such a high stress cost [23:50:08] there are no words in the English language to describe the sheer disappointment I feel when someone gives good news about the shutdown only to end their message with /s [23:53:33] Captain's log, Stardate: six one six two zero two three seven five three: [23:54:13] Is [[mh:backrooms:This wiki and the future of Miraheze]] a good announcement? [23:54:13] https://mh.wikipedia.org/wiki/backrooms:This_wiki_and_the_future_of_Miraheze [23:54:16] [23:55:06] Not accurate truthfully [23:55:38] Theres an ongoing effort to prevent shutdown, and the original timeline is still basically truthfully [23:56:30] @orduin It’s been 2 days since I made my request in Stewards Noticeboard https://meta.miraheze.org/w/index.php?title=Stewards%27_noticeboard in Wiki un deletions [23:56:59] Our only steward has been quite busy [23:57:38] kinda sucks tbh [23:58:05] I know you have been busy [23:58:12] delered [23:58:31] [1/2] Not really, be free to read this: panel. mywikis. com/index.php?rp=/knowledgebase/19/Importing-content-into-your-wiki.html [23:58:32] [2/2] (remove spaces between .mywikis.) [23:59:29] is this the summer where the number of available solutions has decreased to none