[00:16:30] Has there ever been a request for [[Visual Leaflet editor]] maps.extension.wiki/wiki/Visual_Leaflet_editor [00:16:30] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Visual_Leaflet_editor [00:16:31]

[00:17:02] hmmm unknown link [00:18:03] What was the final vote for Miraheze future? [00:18:13] Probably because it’s Miraheze meta [00:18:22] Did you mean to link to MediaWiki? [00:18:40] May be caps as well [00:36:06] Had hoped to there was something about it here [00:36:35] But it's not installed onMiraheze [00:39:23] You can see the results on https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_Comment/Reorganization_of_Miraheze. Still pending official steward closure of the RfC, but merging with WikiTide had the highest tally at 81. [00:40:59] MiraTide time [00:41:26] oh seems a bit unbalanced? Mirazahe having 60x the number of Wikis than WikiTide? Interesting choice. [00:41:54] Wikitide is rather new [00:42:14] But exists of former Miraheze personell [00:42:31] WikiTide is composed of former Miraheze volunteers who know the ins and outs and who have a very ambitious plan to modernize Miraheze so that very much helped the vote out. [00:44:34] Is it already decided of the domains will be swapped? or both will run on their own respective domains? [00:46:02] WikiTide will be merged into Miraheze so both services won't exist independently. If a domain swap happens in the future, it will be communicated and wikis will be able to retain their old miraheze.org subdomain. [00:49:51] <.labster> Cool URLs don’t change [00:50:24] mirahez [00:50:27] mirahaze [00:50:31] mirehaz [00:50:38] I've seen it spelled so many different ways [00:50:53] I bet everyone produce it differently [00:51:55] <.labster> Mine rhymes with Mira heez nuts [00:52:11] <:literally1984:880129706035396660> [00:52:36] Get prepared for 1985, the greatest sequel of all time [00:53:42] <.labster> I did like the name Wiki Tide. We could call each wiki in the farm a pod. [00:56:19] I say it like “Mirror head z” [00:56:25] IPA be damend [00:56:54] welp, this proves my theory [00:56:59] yet another variant of how to pronounce it lol [00:57:09] <.labster> Which way do you pronounce mirror? [00:57:16] My-rawr [00:57:18] WikiTide sounds like a wiki farm for surfing-related wikis [00:57:33] How is a merger "literally 1984"? [00:57:34] <.labster, replying to tali64> Gnarly [00:57:40] hehe, we'll surprise you in a bit with something funny [00:58:07] Did you see my message in response to you posting "Literally 1984"? [00:58:24] Our whole conversation above was in a joking manner [00:59:14] OK then! [00:59:24] I am still a bit nervous about how the merger will go. [00:59:41] We're actively discussing the details with Miraheze Limited [00:59:47] OK then! [01:17:34] [1/2] Interesting new CW interface [01:17:35] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1191550824271315004/Screenshot_20240101_191659_Firefox.jpg?ex=65a5d92e&is=6593642e&hm=0d45a683182f06c73e25439e7d3f8956f50559bb8fcc66e98b4226d9a00428ba& [01:24:09] Mmm, localization moment [01:25:25] Plus it seems hard to find where you can actually act on the wiki request. [01:25:47] I honestly prefer having DB statuses separate from the rest of the request interface; it makes it easier to process [01:26:03] oh sorry, I will deploy a patch right now [01:26:19] I messed up the section selection [01:26:27] but got caught up talking [01:26:42] Go to "", take the appropriate actions there, go to "Handle request", and press "Submit" [01:26:52] I actually like that box showing up right up front. but the processing tabs seem less functional [01:27:00] yeah, my fault [01:27:05] deploying the fix now [01:27:24] seems like 2 steps instead of just handling on one tab [01:27:34] should work in around 5 minutes, it's deploying now [01:27:42] monitor in #sre if you're curious [01:27:54] It is [01:28:37] world domination step 1 (making approving wikis be two stepped) is in action 🦹 [01:29:10] Formally closed RfC as the community endorsing option C (merge with WikiTide) [01:29:19] Step 2: Make wiki requesting exceptionally exclusive [01:29:26] i usually check all tabs, but now there's an extra tab to complete the process. [01:29:55] Thank you! [01:30:35] alright, should work now [01:31:55] [1/2] Almost [01:31:56] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1191554434354917436/Screenshot_20240101_193140_Firefox.jpg?ex=65a5dc8b&is=6593678b&hm=773d88e4a80c242ad917d8a501b4133dd09af0cd8062acd5b5f0fbc1f194f477& [01:32:19] yes, i18n is always slow [01:35:15] I'm sort of getting used to the unintentional interface; maybe we could make it the new one (with some changes of course) [01:35:33] finally we're leaving britain [01:40:58] soon™️ [01:41:11] lots of complexities but we're getting there and making fantastic progress [01:41:34] Just like when a Britain votes for Brexit 😂 [01:42:04] Why is it that every time I make a comment, it always gets buried? [01:42:19] This one? [01:42:36] The new UI isn't unintentional, I'm currently backporting all code changes from WikiTide to Miraheze [01:43:05] If you've looked at Special:ManageWiki/permissions and namespaces, you'll notice the main page has some UI changes [01:43:33] There's also some more changes to the CreateWiki UI which haven't been ported over while I wait for UO to make them modular [01:44:38] I was assuming that it was unintentional, but if it isn't, then I really like it; maybe you could only show a portion of the canned responses based on which action is selected instead of showing all of them at once [01:44:55] that's a good idea [01:45:03] very good idea actually [01:45:26] Some of those messages really need an update though [01:45:53] I made a PR for that a few days ago [01:46:03] https://github.com/miraheze/mw-config/pull/5410 [01:46:20] I'm trying to go through the backlogs right now [01:46:23] <.labster> Mirabrexit has interesting implications for my private wiki, it can become public in the US. [01:46:26] It might be worth a discussion about whether they're more or less removed entirely [01:46:43] I cleared out a significant portion of the Steward backlog but SRE backlog needs help [01:46:56] though like 60% of the Phab tasks are wiki renames [01:47:05] Canned Responses were added for AI purposes and seems to cause either just confusion or a lot of back and forths over "perfect text" [01:47:24] Miraheze + ChatGPT when? [01:47:42] MiraGPT [01:48:08] To be fair, it could potentially be re-explored with a python web service on better hardware [01:48:41] The current setup is entirely ineffective and broken when it does work - PHP is really behind in the world of AI [01:48:42] I think the new proposed jobrunner will be able to handle the AI job just fine [01:49:27] Resourcing isn't necessarily the problem - the fact PHP is really behind in the field of AI is more the problem [01:49:28] But they save a lot of time when processing requests; I wouldn't have been able to process as many requests as I have if they didn't exist [01:49:35] Mirabrexit [01:49:43] Brexiheze [01:49:51] lmao [01:50:08] Wikimedia is planning an AI Automoderator [01:50:26] And FANDOM has their externalish review model in Cynthia [01:50:32] gotta catch up [01:50:39] Yeah totally not saying they can't stay - it's just the way they're implemented is bad because they were designed for Purpose A - but everyone is using it for Purpose B [01:50:51] <.labster, replying to pixldev> Just two AIs reverting each other because they didn't like the other's sources. [01:51:13] PFFFFT [01:51:22] I meant for Anti Vandalism [01:51:34] There's an unfortunate reliance on the canned responses that even I am guilty of. Despite it taking a bit longer without them, I have a strong hunch that we would be able to reach final decisions faster with less back and forth if we axed most of them. [01:51:49] would be funny as fuck though [02:19:56] what's WikiTide? [02:21:06] All I can really say is that I hope nothing changes with my little private wiki. [02:21:10] WikiTide is another farm like Miraheze [02:21:15] no ads [02:21:32] made form former MH staff [02:22:14] ohh [02:22:26] if they're merging does that mean i should make an account for wikitide orr [02:25:27] Nope [02:25:38] very little should change for the end user [02:25:51] central auth concerns are to be decided [02:28:41] ohh [02:47:45] Just to clarify: Whether what is removed entirely? Reading comprehension is not my strong suit. [03:02:13] canned responses, I believe [03:39:54] Correct [03:41:07] The things that are phrased like ```Can you give us a few more details on the purpose for, scope of, and topic of your wiki, and briefly describe some of your wiki's content in approximately 2-3 sentences?``` [03:49:49] I fixed that in my PR [03:50:59] Nice! I haven't had a chance to check out proposed changes between holidays and well, all those other post-RfC logistics we now need to juggle. I'll give it a look once things calm down this evening. [03:51:36] Here's a link: https://github.com/miraheze/mw-config/pull/5410 [04:54:59] hi [04:55:47] last year i have the intention to migrate to Miraheze and thus requested an import dump [04:56:40] but it seemed like the contents in there were considerably lacking, some articles were even a blank page [04:57:21] i have abandoned it for a while and now i want to go back to miraheze, is there something i can fix to fully migrate the contents and templates? [05:43:35] WCs have always relied on canned responses in some form; writing a new comment every time just takes too much time. So I find your opinion quite interesting. Why do you think reaching decisions would be faster without them? Because the decline reason would be tailored to the specific request? If so, why can't using "Other" to write that help? [05:53:23] [1/6] Happy to delve on this -- What I observed in my MH tenure and have also seen at WT is: [05:53:23] [2/6] * Overbroad use of the 'needs more details' response when a requester does re-engage tends towards one of three outcomes: [05:53:23] [3/6] * Minor but insufficient tweaks to request description [05:53:24] [4/6] * Requester Confusion about what's missing, leading to further explanation needed by the WC [05:53:24] [5/6] * Long essays from requester without actually addressing the core informational needs [05:53:24] [6/6] * The other hyper-specific decline reasons often need further explanation beyond the canned response as there's nearly always some quirk to the situation. [05:54:18] There's absolutely some situations where there just isn't enough information, but for things where the topic is clear but you need to understand more about intended use, asking the question directly tends to lead to less back and forth [05:55:59] Regarding requester confusion, I have noticed people often either do not understand what "scope" means or how they could share it. [05:56:19] [1/4] There are some fairly straightforward fixes to both: [05:56:20] [2/4] * Rethinking the hyper-specific decline language (sounds like Tali's already taken a stab at this [05:56:20] [3/4] * Implementing a minimum character count for request descriptions to head off the clearly inadequate single-word requests [05:56:20] [4/4] * Rewriting the generic NEI request to give more clear guidance on what makes a request reviewable. [05:56:23] <.labster> Need more details, such as: [05:57:16] When the character count minimums were implemented at WT we saw a massive increase in the quality of request descriptions, which was a breath of fresh air [05:57:44] As for long essays, I agree that we should just write custom comments instead. [05:59:16] <.labster> We actually need to know what we have better. WikiDiscover is not great. It would be nice to have a non-Google entry point to our wikis. [06:00:03] @cosmicalpha they're bashing your extension yet again [06:00:06] /joke [06:00:14] CA did plan to revamp WD soon [06:00:22] I'm sure he could use some suggestions [06:00:29] True. https://wikistats.wmcloud.org/display.php?t=mh is an interesting delve into this [06:00:30] <.labster> If WC could serve as a seed for WikiDiscover info [06:00:31] if have a moment...see DMs? [06:00:37] Indeed. WD needs a lot of improvements [06:00:43] Can fully agree here, many less spam requests on WikiTide. [06:00:52] 100% [06:00:57] I personally don't like the mention of "at least 2-3 sentences" in the NEI response. I have encountered lots of requests that are not even a sentence long and yet they make enough sense. So I can see how that may be helpful. [06:01:08] I've handled a great many of the requests lately and am happy to say that they are nearly all in good faith. [06:01:14] We implemented a minimum of 150 characters and it seems most people actually do write something good [06:01:20] Obviously a few gibberish here and there but on the whole, positive. [06:01:23] What do you want to do? [06:01:25] We should implement that into CW I think [06:01:33] I've seem a lot of requests that just say "wiki for " [06:01:43] On WikiTide? [06:01:45] or miraheze [06:01:47] on Miraheze [06:01:56] this should be impossible on WT with the character limit [06:01:59] or the infamous "for fun" [06:02:10] best descriptions possible [06:02:12] Ah, yep [06:02:23] <.labster> “For the lulz” [06:03:14] “For nothing past my own entertainment, and the entertainment of others, I do request a wiki on ” [06:03:37] I don't think we show the "purpose" on WD at the moment. That could be a nice addition. [06:03:47] <.labster, replying to lichmaster98> I’d approve the hell out of this one [06:04:09] Although I have always wondered why it's not the same as the category. [06:05:12] <.labster> As a nonprofit we have to justify what we host, so we need to know what we host. [06:05:40] Yep - especially as 501(c)3, those are under intense scrutiny. [06:05:42] ...which is what the description is for? [06:05:52] Since 501(c)3 is such a tax-beneficial classification [06:06:00] What am I missing? [06:06:06] On WikiTide, we do require you submit a public description on all wiki requests which is then added automatically to WikiDiscover. Maybe this could be useful on Miraheze? [06:06:17] When the url change will take place? [06:06:43] not for a long time [06:06:53] I did this once and had it implemented on MH but someone didn't like it and forced it to never fully go live [06:06:58] Also I requested a data dump [06:07:00] if it does happen, wikis can opt to stay on miraheze.org indefinitely [06:07:01] Is that the same as what is set via ManageWiki af the moment? [06:07:06] yes [06:07:13] \:( [06:07:30] And that is why I just added to ManageWiki instead lol [06:07:48] But yeah I'd like that also... [06:07:55] it'd certainly help against this [06:07:57] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1191623899276918784/image.png?ex=65a61d3c&is=6593a83c&hm=b6efd2919bd9bede45e8c924334d0f2af6272bc6f83c9731c64e4b69aa88b76d& [06:08:01] lots of empty space [06:08:13] So much white space, my eyes >.> [06:08:25] @wmf vector dark mode when??? [06:08:59] The board members of wt will be published now? [06:09:08] <.labster> @WMf monobook dark mode when?? [06:09:56] wanting to make sure i’m not entirely off base here - we don’t take legal action against people for gcp violations, correct? [06:10:00] Current board members are already listed, we're still working through the transfer agreement and are having a special session tomorrow to handle some of the other transitional board appointments. [06:10:05] that was apparently threatened on wiki and i wanted to clarify that [06:10:13] <.labster> Whoever WM is, sorry I pinged you [06:10:24] (i’m 99.9999% sure we don’t) [06:10:33] no [06:10:42]