[00:03:01] it makes sense because meta: is a namespace on meta [00:04:12] right [00:04:25] maybe it would be more consistent to just do mh: from the start including meta links? [00:04:50] Does Owen have the moderator role? [00:04:54] still here on Discord [00:04:59] btw, dev + test + commons have been mentioned [00:05:17] owen is still mod yes [00:05:33] I should say, they are now mentioned [00:07:04] Nice! [00:23:01] welp [00:23:14] Could we consider combining dev + commons [00:23:30] It isn't an obvious match but they're basically just repositories [00:24:02] <.labster> I mean, we could consider it. [00:24:18] how should page edits be sorted in an .xml dump to be imported to miraheze? by page, then revision date within those pages? [00:25:00] <.labster> Are you creating your own XML dump? [00:25:15] Commons links to the rest of MH in a unique way [00:25:18] Not entirely sure how [00:25:27] But we could do something similar for devwiki on commons? [00:25:29] If that makes sense [00:25:48] no, i sent an .xml dump off to the phabricator team to import and it isn't importing any changes made after june 2017 [00:26:04] <.labster> Then why are you worrying about sorting your XML dump? [00:26:13] apparently because the document is sorted oddly internally, but I didn't make the dump, so i don't fully understand [00:26:30] <.labster> Oh, you think the data could be bad. Has anyone tried importing the dump again? [00:26:39] Which wiki? [00:26:50] <.labster> 1d6chanwiki I think [00:26:52] it's going right now in #global-wiki-feed and the new pages have the same problem [00:26:54] actually hang on [00:26:58] also CC @Site Reliability Engineers [00:27:05] no no [00:27:06] sorry [00:27:10] i have a thread going [00:27:17] 1209309579591290891 [00:27:26] wait - then why ask here and not in the thread? [00:27:28] 1209309579591290891 [00:27:32] <.labster> 8675309 [00:28:25] sorry [00:28:29] i'm just so confused [00:28:56] <.labster> ^ @Agent cases like these is why I want wiki managers, where issues get dropped on new wikis [00:29:46] no, please, don't bug them, they're already in the thread [00:32:47] <.labster> https://discord.com/channels/407504499280707585/1209309579591290891/1209654948632072222 is the thread [00:32:56] yes [00:38:50] [1/3] I understand where you are coming from, but I think that that just would confuse the users a bit. [00:38:50] [2/3] I think moving the DEV to META would be more suitable. [00:38:51] [3/3] But that's just my idea [00:39:23] yep for sure could be a bit discombobulating [00:39:43] I don’t use devwiki or commons often, so hearing from users that do would definitely help [00:41:10] I rarely use commons myself, as I upload locally on my wiki, or on Commons.wikimedia. [00:41:34] <.labster> It's one thing to get images from a single source. Templates might require translation, I don't think automatically loading is suitable. [00:41:49] I agree [00:42:29] That's why I said Meta, as there translating is a common practice [00:42:59] ..Dev to meta? [00:43:14] Yea. It's rarely used [00:44:02] The only active ones are myself and Pppery [00:45:16] <.labster> Meta is doing too many things. [00:45:36] <.labster> I've been thinking about making dev more active, but we would really have to increase its visibility [00:47:09] <.labster> https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/User:Raidarr/Main_Page_revision would help, by putting a link on all new wikis [00:47:10] [1/2] That would be best. Attract https://k6ka.miraheze.org/ perhaps [00:47:10] [2/2] He has loads of great stuff for dev! [00:47:27] https://k6ka.miraheze.org/wiki/Category:Templates [00:47:48] All Lua free stuff, which is great [00:53:48] [1/3] We need to have a good page where all necessary templates are described, and why they are better for those that are new to wiki's. [00:53:48] [2/3] Especially now we have the Navbox, Navbar, SimpleInfobox and soon a sidebar too. [00:53:49] [3/3] Each template should have a manual on how to copy it over to their own wiki, etc. [00:54:57] Ideas are popping up in my head. So now I have to go to bed and let that organize while I sleep 😄 [00:55:36] G'night everyone! 🛌 💤 💤 [01:21:21] [1/2] I'm working on a Wiki that has recurring video game and people names, but both games and people don't get their own pages. I want to make sure those names are always written in the same way. [01:21:22] [2/2] Is there any way to implement terminology management into a Wiki where I could pull names from a list and insert them whenever I need them via a dropdown list or something of that manner? [01:25:16] Hm. I mean at that point may wanna make a page. But still I think that in good faith even with small variations in spelling the reader will understand. If you really want, may be able to add all the names to the edit box like enwiki has for special characters and meta for talk pages [01:27:15] There may be other ways I’m not familiar with, or might be able to use a structured data extension but at that point seems like over kill imho [01:27:26] I agree that readers will understand, it's more a me-thing than anything else really [01:27:54] Could have a bot find and replace common alt spelling into one central one [01:28:49] Yeah, that sounds like a bit much. I was more hoping for a functionality like in Excel where you can draw names from a dedicated sheet [01:29:25] That sounds like getting into SMW terf, or wikibase. Not sure as I have never used them. [01:30:48] I guess I'll just live with the possibility of a few weirdly spelled names 😉 Thanks for your input! [01:31:18] But to standardize a spelling, either is absurdly overkill. Don’t trim a bonsai with a great axe :Kek: [01:31:41] My pleasure :mirahezelogo: [01:31:54] I agree 😅 [01:32:48] fyi to clarify @jph2 it wasn’t stepping away persay, it was resignation of all roles and accusations of breaching data privacy [01:32:59] as well as confirmation of a desire to not further continue [01:33:21] don’t want to reply in #elections for clutter purposes but yeah [01:34:09] we could consider doing more things with [[Miraheze Projects]] overall [01:34:09] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Miraheze_Projects [01:34:10] [01:38:03] the functions are fundamentally a bit different [01:38:40] true [01:50:24] Fandom WR system would work if we had more volunteers to assign wikis to [01:50:32] or even better, let's pay them \:P [01:53:03] Where should I request extension updates? (My current case is that I'd like [[mw:Extension:Translate]] to be updated, but I'd also like to know where it's preferred people ask for the future.) [01:53:03] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Translate [01:53:04] [01:55:00] sure [01:55:01] done [01:55:20] MediaWiki.org is on 2024-01-22 ([f26ad98]()); Miraheze is on 2023-07-10 ([7bafd5]()). [01:56:02] oh, that was quick. thanks! should I just ask in #general in the future, or is a Phab task preferred, or should I use a different channel here? [01:57:24] yes [01:59:52] wiki reps does sound interesting though, what would that entail here though [02:00:18] you're people's first line of contact [02:00:28] if they need help, you're the first person they go to [02:02:02] could we do that? [02:02:13] I wouldn’t be against it if we elected 1-2 more WCs [02:02:33] Jph2, Redmin, and I are all regularly active, as are most Stewards [02:03:08] Would that complicate or simplify the current workload for those folks though? [02:04:13] good question [02:04:26] what would WR responsibilities even be? [02:04:33] just general troubleshooting help? [02:04:43] or on-wiki help? [02:05:20] I'll do it if you pay me [02:05:45] I don’t know about complicate, definitely expand [02:05:45] the foundation can afford modest checks of $1/yr [02:05:57] prepay for the year and I'll give it a go [02:06:17] Almost would cost you more to send that check then what it would cash for 🤣 [02:06:18] I'll make up my donation from '22ish in about 500 years [02:06:20] Wiki creations, ManageWiki stuff [02:06:31] I remember an RfC a while back with more details [02:08:00] I mean we don’t even have to assign specific wikis [02:08:06] [1/2] tbh troubleshooting and stuff doesn't sound like a whole lot that wouldn't be possible if we a) encouraged meta awareness more consistently (and actually that's another thought for the main page revamp), b) had people who could more consistently check out new wikis including to see if they're clearly struggling with something, and c) were able to offer more zippy service with what we [02:08:06] [2/2] 've got [02:08:40] It can just be ManageWiki abilities where Stewards may not have time, ability to mark as inactive exempt, change site name and dbname, something of the sort [02:08:47] <.labster> If we could target sitenotices that would be great. Or alerts in your "tray" icon, whatever that's called. [02:09:00] dedicated echos to wiki operators is something I've wanted to see for a long time [02:09:06] <.labster> There are too many wiki users who have no idea what a Miraheze is, or why they should care. [02:09:14] <.labster> And shouldnt' have to learn! [02:09:18] get the people who run things to check out the platform and make their needs more clear [02:09:41] <.labster> Echos, yes, that's what they're called. [02:09:48] miraheze should not be too prominent to the end user I believe, but it should always be a knock away for people who do the running [02:10:09] possibly combine central notice admin, managewiki/restricted [02:10:18] <.labster> To anyone who has local sysop or crat rights. [02:10:23] fandom is an example where the platform brand overwhelms the flairs of communities [02:11:14] a step below steward able to clerk uncontroversial wiki changes and defer trickier cases to stewards could be useful [02:11:23] <.labster> ❤️‍🔥 [02:11:40] <.labster> How did they get an emoji? [02:11:50] [1/5] Here’s my general proposal for wiki managers: [02:11:51] [2/5] - All rights of WC [02:11:51] [3/5] - ManageWiki/ManageWiki restricted for inactivity exemptions [02:11:51] [4/5] - Clerk RfRW and reopen wikis and manage as needed [02:11:52] [5/5] - Close problematic wikis in violation of CP [02:12:04] thoughts? [02:12:18] last one, steward territory full stop [02:12:31] that's a bit too much [02:12:42] perhaps `managewiki-*` minus permissions, to aid in debugging [02:12:45] Also - deal with permissions [02:12:45] <.labster> I want to do the first three bullet points, not the fourth. [02:12:48] the rest, seems fine; one question is if they'd be able to see private wikis, that shouldn't necessarily be the case [02:13:02] Maybe assign crat as needed for local elections? [02:13:08] I would say no on private wikis [02:13:14] no they should not [02:13:28] I'm not sure if the system would currently support that or is designed to make that kind of split [02:13:48] now you're describing a Steward [02:13:51] local election type matters should also be steward yes [02:13:54] updated, the latter two would reduce ability nicely [02:14:08] for stewards I mean [02:14:17] makes sense [02:14:35] basically anything that requires particular discretion/interpretation should be steward affairs [02:14:48] but if you can check it and it's clearly in accordance with policy, by all means [02:15:00] Would say that being able to restore crat when it’s accidentally removed is probably good [02:15:09] That happens more often than it should [02:15:09] <.labster> Too many things require some degree of discretion for that policy to ever make sense. [02:15:14] if it's a very clear cut case I would agree [02:15:47] ie, failed permission generation or obvious 'oops I deleted bureaucrat', vs walking in on an administrative dispute which should just escalate [02:15:59] updated with feedback? [02:16:07] [1/2] > Switch dbname and sitenames as requested [02:16:07] [2/2] database name is something only a Site Reliability Engineer can handle, not even a Steward or MediaWiki Engineer and sitename changes can be done by bureaucrats [02:16:08] Yep for sure [02:16:17] Ahh right [02:16:34] fixed [02:17:44] I've seen my dad get a check for 37 cents. it was actually insulting [02:17:45] [1/2] > Restore permissions that were inadvertently deleted when requested (usually bureaucrat for ManageWiki) [02:17:45] [2/2] This can be handled via Special:ManageWikiDefaultPermissions but I might need to split off the ability to do that from the `managewiki-editdefault` right which also allows the wielder to edit the default permissions for new wikis, via Meta [02:18:08] if such a role is made then yes, that would need a split [02:18:29] ManageWiki went from two rights to now like 8 [02:18:29] Not sure why WR/WM would have WC rights [02:18:39] yeah, that's a bit odd [02:18:58] I'd actually think of this as a bit less permissive then WC [02:19:02] but thinking now [02:19:03] uh no [02:19:10] it does make sense to me that if a role is going to be doing all these wiki managerial tasks that it could also assist in wiki creation [02:19:46] but I'm not entirely committed to the idea, I just like fewer hats [02:20:03] I just imagine someone who is wiki creator, wiki manager, global sysop... gets mouthy [02:21:17] was meant for WM to be a step up from WC I thought [02:21:21] I do think the general idea of an ambassador may be good [02:21:41] this was my train of thought, also it's nicer to not have WC + WM and just WM in terms of hats like raidarr said [02:21:47] the idea of an ambassador is a bit more suited to platforms with a more centralized idea of staff and top-down leadership while miraheze is inherently quite the opposite [02:22:01] on a platform like miraheze one would hope for more ground-up community outreach [02:22:35] True. [02:23:21] this is the wiki request of all time https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:RequestWikiQueue/41310 [02:23:25] bwaaaaaaaaa.... [02:23:41] bwap [02:26:55] I think depending on execution the idea still has some potential. imo [02:27:11] @agentisai ? [02:27:49] and whats perms and duties, ie would they be mini wiki creators or stewards, maybe they have very few perms on mw and are more a go to support person [02:28:27] preferably, they should be separate [02:28:45] yeah [02:28:59] go to support as a role is definately in the vein you'd expect someone to be paid for it [02:29:05] true [02:29:15] signing up as a punching bag without a bit more to it is, hm [02:29:25] then remove WC right yeah [02:29:33] besides that is it fine? [02:29:36] but I wouldn't necessarily go out and oppose a decently planned ambassador idea, I'm just not sure what reasonable form it would take [02:29:46] the rights for WR should be fleshed out [02:30:02] Yeah I don’t want to do that to people lol - this server can be the first venue [02:30:21] Now that I think about it, the role Legroom and I have is kinda that lol [02:30:30] this @agentisai [02:30:35] I agree [02:30:36] would have thought id notice sooner in this convo [02:30:49] at least in your case it's on a low pressure/no real compulsion end of the scale [02:30:55] yeah [02:30:57] is there anything else needed to be added? [02:31:07] think everything that currently exists on there is fine [02:31:10] #1 would require a new right 🫠 [02:31:25] is that easy to do [02:31:26] The creation of it was legit me saying hey guys what if we had that one js css role but for general wiki [02:31:28] i’m guessing no [02:31:29] yeah, seems we're shopping for new perms [02:31:30] and then i was oragne [02:31:32] I'm not sure comment but not handle would be necessary or of much value [02:31:43] at that point you may as well slip a note to the wc channel [02:31:44] [1/2] In the case of Fandom's Wiki Representatives (Wiki Managers), they act as contacts between the local wiki and Fandom (such as feedback from the local wiki), help the local wiki enable extensions that are turned off by default, assist the local community in managing their wiki (especially in the absence of an administrator), and intervene in any global policy violations within the [02:31:45] [2/2] local wiki. [02:31:57] this is true [02:32:11] there's quite a lot of overlap with many roles [02:32:12] I suppose if WC and WM shared a channel it’d be good [02:32:15] fandom wiki reps are in many ways as close as you get to an actual steward on miraheze [02:32:17] The first point is partly redundent here: we have very little central staff [02:32:28] they’re also paid I think [02:32:33] and we are small enough that direct contact with Stewards works [02:32:40] Also, do I need to do anything for this to take effect? Special:Version isn't showing any change, despite the update's logged success. [02:32:49] the second: ManageWiki or stewards for shit liek SMW [02:32:54] fixed? [02:32:54] You want the same version as mediawiki.org, right? [02:33:01] smw needs an sre input doesn't it [02:33:05] pretty sure that's why it was restricted [02:33:06] yep [02:33:11] Yeah; that's the version you just deployed. [02:33:15] it is not [02:33:18] the last two are filled by general community and stewards [02:33:28] MediaWiki.org is on MediaWiki 1.42 [02:33:33] they're one version ahead of us [02:33:44] so their version is the latest, cutting edge [02:33:50] cc: [02:34:10] insider trading [02:34:13] i'm talking about Extension:Translate's version, not the MediaWiki version. [02:34:13] :p [02:34:30] they dont even wait for release lol they just grab straight from gerrit [02:35:18] So am I. They're on MediaWiki 1.42. Wikimedia extensions receive active development for the latest MediaWiki version only so the version MW.org has is only available to MediaWiki 1.42+ [02:35:39] we're on the latest stable branch, 1.41, so we won't be able to update to their newer version until MediaWiki officially launches 1.42 [02:35:48] seems adequate [02:35:57] @.labster and @agentisai thoughts here? [02:36:39] [1/2] > ManageWiki/ManageWiki restricted for inactivity exemptions [02:36:39] [2/2] `managewiki-restricted` is a no but we should look into developing an extension which lets us handle it via a special page [02:36:45] Yes, they are paid ||(although they recently fired the International WR because they were too expensive)||. [02:36:57] Is there a way to separate the two [02:37:09] new right \:) [02:37:16] <.labster, replying to bwm0> can edit mediawiki namespace? [02:37:18] ah yep [02:37:28] Can’t crate do that? [02:37:40] Coco sock? [02:37:43] capitalism [02:37:52] hm? [02:37:59] Now I'm getting confused on the intention. Are we looking for a assistant to stewards in managing wikis, OR are we looking for something like what Fandom has, people with some elevated perms to assist, guide, and work with wikis [02:38:06] Cocopuff is one who usually says 'crate' rather than 'crat' [02:38:10] a mix of both I think [02:38:24] oh oops i typed crate but it autocorrected [02:38:34] what we're describing really overlaps quite a lot with GS and Steward [02:38:57] GS can’t do any of what we said I think [02:39:00] <.labster> autocorrupt probably says crate a lot too [02:39:08] I think the main technical function would be assisting in the clerking duties, in other words where gs assumes cvt elements of steward, this role would assume more button-pushing basics for wikis [02:39:26] Ah. [02:39:35] I don't think the outreach/working with communities aspect should be hardcoded, rather something encouraged for as many folks as possible whatever the role if any at all [02:39:50] I can dig that. [02:39:53] teah [02:39:56] yeah [02:39:57] <.labster> Just because you can click a button doesn't mean you should. This applies to all roles we give out. [02:40:18] Unless you're driving a Tesla [02:40:44] GS are Stewards helpers though. It wouldn't be a massive leap forward to assign them the ability to do ManageWiki-related things [02:40:59] <.labster, replying to pixldev> I'm still waiting for turn signals to move to the touch screen [02:41:00] especially since they are the administrators for all wikis that have no active administrators [02:41:38] True [02:41:39] <.labster> Okay, I'm nominating myself for global sysop now then. [02:41:56] {{oppose}} hat collecting, no activity on Meta  [02:41:56] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:oppose [02:41:57] [02:42:00] that’s fine then tbh [02:42:25] we should clarify that GS aren't only chiefly CVT then [02:42:49] <.labster, replying to .labster> as soon as I log in... again [02:42:58] So we moving to making GS a bit more like FWR [02:43:03] <.labster> All of these logouts seem really suspicious [02:43:15] conspiracy? 🤯 [02:43:23] only a tiny bit [02:43:37] but GS already have the right to act as admins on all wikis either way [02:43:55] The latest "stable" release, 2024-01-22 (as a part of the [MediaWiki language extension bundle]()), does [report 1.41 compatibility](https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-Translate/blob/2024.01/extension.json#L18) however. Is that not what was just deployed? [02:44:09] going full on steward helper with the aforementioned discussion would indeed realize the idea of not too many hats + make them more useful [02:44:11] I'd be in favor [02:44:45] no, this was deployed: [02:45:17] we don't use master branch anymore because Translate broke backwards compatibility thrice now which left wikis uneditable until we rolled back [02:45:38] <.labster> [1/4] ```{{SUBST::Requests for global permissions/boilerplate [02:45:38] <.labster> [2/4] |user={{SUBST:REVISIONUSER}} [02:45:38] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/SUBST:Template:REVISIONUSER [02:45:38] <.labster> [3/4] |reason= I think it would be really cool to be a sysop, but more than one sysop at a time XD``` [02:45:39] <.labster> [4/4] this looks good I think [02:45:42] Ah, thanks. [02:47:41] strange that their rolling 1.41 branch doesn't include changes released in MLEB [02:51:54] please is there a way i can access random wikis [02:52:07] [[Special:RandomWiki]]? [02:52:07] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:RandomWiki [02:52:08] [02:52:19] @agentisai if we’re adding those rights to GS, couldn’t we also add WC [02:52:39] no, that'd actually be a step too far [02:52:45] makes sense [02:53:28] <.labster> Special:RandomWiki can still get you closed or private wikis. @cosmicalpha still needs to review my PR #107 [02:53:39] Though to demonstrate rarity of GS….we don’t have one right now [02:53:56] is all this going to require an RfC out of curiousity [02:54:17] Likely [02:54:42] not for long [02:54:43] I would assume so [02:54:44] <.labster> Do you need a Global Sysop you can trust? I have always prided myself as an editor of integrity and skill. Vote Labster for Global Sysop! (I approve this message) [02:54:50] Already did [02:54:52] OH THANK THE MIRAHEZE GODS [02:54:52] CANVASSING!!!! [02:54:57] POLICE [02:55:00] ARREST THIS MAN [02:55:04] quick, get the trout [02:55:04] <.labster> 🚨 [02:55:28] 🚔 [02:55:37] there are a few cooking in the oven I assume [02:56:11] How do they taste? (/j in case any FBI are watching) [02:56:17] <.labster> I don't know of any others, unless you want to join, @raidarr [02:56:20] hallo itsa me da polic [02:56:21] they're a rare delicacy [02:56:41] still enamored with the life of a wiki bachelor [02:56:53] is there a reason Miraheze doesn't use the MLEB for the extensions it contains? it has quarterly releases & (alleged) `maintenance/update.php` support. [02:56:54] and still not sure I want to hop back on the slope tbh [02:57:13] We don't use update.php, it's the devil [02:57:16] perhaps that's why [02:57:33] <.labster, replying to raidarr> Climbing the slippery pole of hats [02:57:53] one thing leads to another and I somehow cause miraheze to split into 3 farms the next time [02:57:58] I'll spare it the journey [02:58:51] <.labster> Pretty soon the tide will settle around Tropical Wikis [02:59:22] The Great Orain will rise again [02:59:33] <.labster> Big O, it's showtime! [02:59:45] maybe wikis can be done right, for once [02:59:51] I will buy and become orain for $1 [03:00:07] [03:00:15] obligatory reminder that Orain lives on [03:00:29] who? [03:01:27] I would assume you in due course [03:01:42] tali had a shot, with time he may have one again [03:01:47] <.labster, replying to raidarr> Only if you change your legal name to Orain. I know a guy legally named MegaZone, he works on nginx. [03:01:58] orainarr [03:02:22] but ye, lab would have my vote [03:02:35] <.labster> and your axe? [03:02:43] you can have the hilt [03:02:50] appreciate that [03:02:58] hopefully eventually [03:03:17] I imagine there are others but not a lot who are either in the right ballpark or who have expressed any relevant interest [03:03:19] laborer are you running (serious) [03:03:28] you? [03:03:44] firmly in the lack of interest camp at this point [03:03:51] …how do you deal with `update.php`'s duties, then? perform them all manually? do you keep a list of extensions that expect the use of `update.php` so you can know not to update those without reading their diffs to what changes they expect to be made? [03:03:54] you’re kissed for certain [03:04:14] uh [03:04:15] oops [03:04:17] missed [03:04:24] yes I was wondering how to reply to that one [03:04:27] Yeah, we perform them manually. If SQL needs to be run, we run it on all wikis. If a script needs to be run, it is ran, etc. [03:04:28] <.labster> 💋 [03:05:07] anyway my era is a bit obsolete with more stewards than ever; I assume some will look at june and also factor that against me one way or another and I'd rather miraheze have smoother sailing with the current crew [03:05:10] 😂 [03:05:19] <.labster, replying to bwm0> yes, it's on wiki now [03:05:20] I've also just plain got a harsher bite than I used to tbqh [03:05:42] currently the GR request is outstanding but I think can be closed whenever a steward has time [03:06:08] <.labster> I'm not opposed to seeing another farm out there, it supports Miraheze's mission of promoting educational wikis [03:06:12] now you’re making me check 💀 [03:06:28] <.labster> If I gave you a link that would be canvassing [03:07:05] not if i ask for it (can i get it) [03:07:42] I'd like to see more farms but have little means to actually develop one of my own [03:07:50] @agentisai realistically speaking, is adding some WM rights to GS in the short term feasible [03:07:53] or is it a long term item [03:07:54] it'll be interesting to see if a project I'm hooked to goes the distance [03:08:04] ManageWiki rights? that's feasible [03:08:16] I can see everything except `-core` and `-permissions` being added [03:08:17] someone remind me about labs RfGS tmr [03:08:18] i slep [03:08:37] peace a:quirrelpeace: [03:08:43] core for inactivity exempt I thought [03:08:55] and perms for deleted crat [03:09:07] well, ideally, DP exemptions can be handled via an extension [03:09:27] is that short term? [03:09:51] if it is absolutely [03:10:13] wouldn't -core be necessary to process reopens? [03:10:17] wait so will I need to make an RfC or steward request (cc: @.labster as board) or can the Board just decree [03:10:23] that too [03:10:38] I hope so [03:10:59] maybe @bluemoon0332 can help develop such an extension [03:11:08] also this Agent [03:11:18] hoping it doesn’t require a whole thing [03:11:28] but I can draft an RfC if it’s required [03:12:05] Board decreeing non-essential changes to community roles is a scary precedent [03:12:13] An RfC should absolutely take place [03:12:21] just checking, thought so [03:12:33] mind if I DM you with a quick draft [03:12:42] expanding the function of gs or adding a role of any sort really would always require rfc [03:12:57] fair [03:13:11] I would’ve probably considered pushing some CP changes through by board decree [03:13:16] That were required [03:13:21] But not many [03:13:57] I can't think of a lot that would justify an unprecedented exertion of executive power [03:14:51] if at all possible any changes of significance should run through the community, and the 'we must make this change' card is only played when the issue is outright existential [03:14:53] just what’s legally required for 501(c)3 [03:15:07] all wikis must be for an educational purpose [03:15:14] for example it seems like the current content policy vote seems to be running fine [03:15:20] yeah [03:15:49] i’m not saying it should be done, the RfC was better, but I would say it’s not forbidden if necessary [03:15:57] but only if necessary [03:16:10] that's a bridge to cross if we ever (hopefully never) get there [03:35:33] Want to quickly follow up - this is what I have so far. Anyone that didn't involve themself in the original discussion that would like to see something +/-? [03:36:43] <.labster, replying to bwm0> No, all of our spending must go to further our educational, charitable, and/or literary purposes [03:37:04] Oh? Thought it included all content [03:37:13] At WT that's how it was explained to me as a WRR [03:37:51] <.labster> IRS scared the bejeesus out of them, as is their job [03:38:19] Ahh lol [03:38:44] Unrelated but still love the IRS "criminal income" rule [03:38:46] So funny to me [03:43:29] morning [03:43:38] anything spicy I'm missing? [03:45:27] Labster GS request [03:45:31] oh and some GS overhaul [03:45:35] other than that, chill morning [03:54:05] <.labster> Oh right, election to revoke Owen mod. Just an average day [03:54:39] That too [03:54:44] Fun times [04:12:45] oh right excessively ping me if I don't get to it tomorrow [05:13:25] I like chill mornings [05:13:31] And yes I'm awake at 05:15 [05:13:40] ooof lol [05:13:44] They're nicer [05:16:52] <.labster> there are some decent Hatsune Miku-chans in this wiki. Wow, that has to be the least perverted thing wokada has ever drawn. [05:17:20] wait [05:17:21] what [05:17:57] OH [05:18:03] <.labster> oh, wait, thought I was still in #offtopic [05:18:05] you finally look at that wiki [05:18:45] which been reported like [05:18:48] 3 times [05:20:03] hang on [05:20:03] what [05:20:13] I'm confused hah [06:25:36] @Meta-Wiki Administrators As a small suggestion, might be a good idea to allow `patrollers` to add/remove themselves from the `flooder` role. They're trusted users with patrol/rollback abilities and in the event of mass archiving, could definitely be useful to prevent clutter of the RC feed. [06:26:57] And of course, a Meta admin isn't always available to assign, so this would be more time-saving and efficient (also, flooder is a lowest-risk role). [07:13:58] [1/2] Does Miraheze support interwiki and global templates? [07:13:58] [2/2] Like on Fandom for example, {{w:User:JustLeafy}} allows you to output the user profile you made on Fandom's Community Central on any wiki. [07:13:58] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JustLeafy [07:14:01] [07:14:25] This is not what I intended to link 😅 [07:20:30] Yes [07:20:40] You can enable scary transclusion [07:20:47] It's called that for a reason though [07:21:17] You don't need to do that for user pages though, the user page on loginwiki will [07:21:28] ok [07:21:31] thx [07:21:31] Auto display using much more sensible and safe technology [07:21:42] And can be overridden locally [07:22:28] what's the equivalent of w:c: for miraheze? [07:22:30] https://hublot.miraheze.org/wiki/User:JustLeafy2k3/Sandbox?action=edit [07:23:40] mh:subdomain works for all Miraheze wiki [07:25:00] Ok will try that out, ty [07:32:57] custom interwiki prefixes are created for each wiki individually [07:33:19] @MirahezeRelay I love you [07:33:34] right now global interwiki admins do that via #interwiki-requests [07:34:01] but there are plans to give bureaus the ability to edit interwiki tables like wiki.gg does [07:34:30] specifically, look at Special\:Interwiki [07:35:18] i'd imagine that'd only allow extending the common set of prefixes? [07:36:40] I suppose so, I've seen vague discussions [07:37:19] I was surprised to find out that interwiki tables on wiki.gg are completely blank [07:37:30] I got so used to w/mw being default [07:37:48] with regards to global templates / modules / whatever else, put me on the waiting list too. [[mw:Global templates/Proposed specification]] is the closest thing to what I'd want that Miraheze might adopt that I've seen so far, but that's also only a proposal that I couldn't find substantial recent activity around. [07:37:48] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Global_templates/Proposed_specification [07:37:49] [07:38:27] pulling in template translations is a real pain [07:38:58] I really want Dev Wiki to be good and organised man [07:40:32] but I'm also not keen on global modules/tenplates [07:40:54] [1/2] I see [07:40:54] [2/2] though I got my answer with [[mh:wikiname]] so I'm fine with that [07:40:54] https://mh.wikipedia.org/wiki/wikiname [07:40:55] [07:41:00] it would work better as repository people could import from directly in Special:Import [07:41:01] [[mw:Extension:PageSync]] is pretty interesting to me, but i also don't know if it'd work with the permissions Miraheze wants to grant to individual wikis [07:41:01] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:PageSync [07:41:02] [07:41:22] personally, I like global templates 😅 [07:41:49] PageSync also requires extra work to use it, but heck i'd love to be able to solve merge conflicts using Git [07:42:08] if one person would want something to change they'll have to copy/paste and stuff like we already do w/ Module:Navbox [07:42:31] true [07:43:12] okay but also consider keeping 10 languages worth of translations for both Template:Foo & Template:Foo/doc up to date [07:44:05] do you maintain 10 language versions of a single wiki? [07:44:22] this maybe wouldn't be as bad if Extension:Translate used [[mw:Manual:Slot|slots]], but that's not the world we live in [07:44:22] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Slot [07:44:45] I wish there was an alternative to Translate [07:46:26] there is i18n(?) [07:48:42] I dunno, I know it borked recently [07:53:15] i18n is like interface thing too? Translate is precisely for content and templates [07:54:40] Hey guys, for some reason my custom domain redirects to my mirahezw subdomain… is there any way to fix this? [07:55:08] this is the custom domain: https://wiki.mineplay.nl [07:55:19] already submitted w/ requestSSL? [07:55:31] submitted and approved [07:55:55] and like it does it sometimes and sometimes it does not, it’s at random [07:56:11] you made right settings on domain itself? [07:56:23] [[Custom domains]] [07:56:23] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Custom_domains [07:56:24] [07:56:55] actually, it might be because of browser [07:56:58] the domain’s not mine, but of the Mineplay devs. They told me that they had pointed the CNAME record per instructions on that page [07:57:08] I’m on safari currently, [07:57:19] because when I set up custom domain it kept fetching miraheze.org from history [07:57:38] so is there any way to fix this? [07:57:50] do I just delete all of the history for the mirahezw domain? [07:58:06] [1/2] I don't know, I'm not SRE [07:58:06] [2/2] it was just a thought [07:58:23] I opened your link now yeah, got the org in URL [07:58:56] maybe it's adjusting [07:59:41] you mean I just gotta wait? [07:59:57] [1/2] I suggest so [07:59:58] [2/2] if anything, you can ping Reception later [08:00:15] or other SRE [08:00:39] I handled the custom domain request but yeah something doesn't seem right... [08:00:49] task? [08:01:25] Give me a few minutes, whats the original miraheze subdomain again? [08:01:40] https://mineplay.miraheze.org [08:01:45] thanks [08:02:36] Should be fixed @eatyourglory [08:02:46] what was the problem? [08:02:56] Cache didn't seem to regenerate [08:03:13] it’s still going to the miraheze domain… [08:03:21] I just regenerated it manually on all servers, it works fine for me now. [08:03:44] clicking this link takes me to the custom domain now anyway [08:04:08] but clicking the custom domain takes me to the miraheze one [08:04:21] Not for me [08:04:25] try in incognito [08:04:29] It did before but not anymore [08:05:05] still redirecting [08:05:06] it works [08:05:26] maybe the Wi-Fi cached the redirect? I got no idea at this point [08:06:08] Hmm. I fixed the issue on our servers and it works for me, maybe just give it a few more minutes for it to work for you? [08:06:38] and clean up browser cache [08:06:43] I’ll ping you in a few mins to let you know if it’s fixed or not [08:06:46] it worked for me in incognito [08:06:48] I’ll try that too [08:07:46] [1/2] no, but [[mh:lethal:Special:ActiveLanguages]] shows 16 languages, and [[mh:lethal:Assurance]] is a non-main page with 6 languages that uses templates. these pages can happen, and are more likely to happen in other languages when editors can take advantage of translations for templates in VisualEditor. also, if a template is pre-translated, that makes [08:07:46] https://mh.wikipedia.org/wiki/lethal:Special:ActiveLanguages https://mh.wikipedia.org/wiki/lethal:Assurance [08:07:46] [2/2] it easier for someone to start contributing new languages. they don't have to worry about adding new template translations for templates that aren't wiki-specific. [08:07:47] [1/2] [08:07:47] [2/2] [08:09:31] on a related note you should be able to mark a wiki as multi-lingual, so it shows on [[mh:meta:Special:WikiDiscover]] [08:09:31] https://mh.wikipedia.org/wiki/meta:Special:WikiDiscover [08:09:32] [08:09:48] it made the redirecting faster 😭 [08:10:38] I don't know what to tell you if it still doesn't work. I'm at a loss. It must be something local or it would happen to everyone... [08:11:10] Ping me in 1 hour if still not and I guess I'll look if something else is caching it our side [08:11:10] not like I can use another browser on iPad… [08:11:34] ask other folks to test? [08:11:59] I’ll ask the mineplay devs to test it [08:18:56] hey wld anyone be able to help me with sum [08:19:26] [1/2] where can i find templates to create stuff like this [08:19:26] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1209776382016749639/image.png?ex=65e8270e&is=65d5b20e&hm=3ea078bc1d06a1462ed9f3415a085deaa00dbdb6eaf5a27b2f976edc6bac7751& [08:19:59] it's called infobox [08:20:08] [[Inoboxes]] [08:20:08] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Inoboxes [08:20:09] [08:20:12] how can i create an infobox [08:20:12] ah [08:20:13] awesome [08:20:16] wait wait [08:20:20] wrong link [08:20:32] o lol [08:20:37] sorry im new to wikis [08:20:50] [[Infoboxes]] [08:20:50] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Infoboxes [08:20:51] [08:21:03] tyvm [08:21:33] in short - the easiest way to create is portable infobox, but you can also import from another wiki, but it might bring troubles [08:31:16] I asked a mineplay dev and it works for them [08:35:05] so it may just be my issue [08:57:48] <.labster, replying to theoneandonlylegroom> Any replacement for Translate is just going to have different complications and will probably not be simpler. i18n is always a messy problem. [09:05:33] [1/2] sorry to bother [09:05:34] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1209787988368949248/image.png?ex=65e831dd&is=65d5bcdd&hm=082867382f48847ab86d187a935292dfd0b574c7f5d16941128dac7309d7662f& [09:05:36] what do i put as the parameters [09:05:48] ive got the image and title etc [09:05:54] bit confused on the rest [09:09:49] what's inside `source="..."` is name of parameter [09:10:00] for example `name` [09:11:01] [1/5] when you use infobox on normal page you type the code [09:11:01] [2/5] `{{name of template [09:11:02] [3/5] |name = Some Name Here [09:11:02] [4/5] ... [09:11:02] [5/5] }}` [09:11:55] you can replace `parameter-1` w/ some more convenient word, like `age` [09:12:18] then change `Label 1` to `Age` [09:12:39] [1/2] and on normal page you fill up the parameter [09:12:39] [2/2] `|age = 20` [09:14:10] awesome thank you [10:54:18] [1/8] WMDE currently uses Blazegraph namespaces to serve a large Wikibase farm with a comparatively small WQDS cluster. Some code for this: [10:54:18] [2/8] * https://github.com/wbstack/queryservice-gateway/blob/c261442f7201bb38a5681bf062e0d78fd8366186/resolver.js [10:54:19] [3/8] * https://github.com/wbstack/api/blob/e59eda7de24f1baccbb7a02c285f684eebe93ecd/app/Http/Controllers/Backend/WikiController.php#L13 [10:54:19] [4/8] * [10:54:19] [5/8] * [10:54:20] [6/8] * [10:54:20] [7/8] * [10:54:20] [8/8] * [10:56:00] Alternatively, you could look into using [QLever](https://github.com/ad-freiburg/qlever), but that'll require implementing support for live data (see https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T340074). [10:57:49] [1/2] Also, here's Wikibase.Cloud's current production cluster setup: https://github.com/wmde/wbaas-deploy-public/blob/ff2096d7656010696ff5056ae79c98872ae7bbad/tf/env/production/cluster.tf [10:57:49] [2/2] See also https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T327430 for discussion of that cluster's current costs. [10:59:58] It now works! It just took some time. Thanks for helping! [11:07:10] [1/3] Had to try this too: [11:07:11] [2/3] {{w:User:Rodejong}} [11:07:11] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rodejong [11:07:11] [3/3] {{w:nl:User:Rodejong}} [11:07:11] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:nl:User:Rodejong [11:07:21] [11:07:22] [11:08:27] Hmmm, I registered on nlWP before I was born 🤔 [11:36:58] [1/3] I'm loving my new Terminal template. [11:36:58] [2/3] https://jwmeeting.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:Terminal [11:36:59] [3/3] Brings back vibes from the old days 😄 [11:37:51] honestly stolen from lethal.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:Terminal [11:39:30] Especially the blinking cursor 😄 [11:51:18] I love it! 🖥️ [11:59:38] [1/2] In stead of using Quote: [11:59:38] [2/2] https://jwmeeting.miraheze.org/wiki/MEPS [12:16:50] This may sound like a dumb question but I want to give somebody in the future the role of bureaucrat and give him the ability to block people just in case somebody might be vandalizing the wiki and I am not there to block it but would that also mean if I give that ability he can block me as administrator ? [12:19:25] are you a bureaucrat too? [12:19:55] I'm the administrator [12:20:13] so are you a bureaucrat or an administrator? [12:20:23] a bureaucrat has the higher permissions btw [12:21:39] To be more precise, are you the original wiki creator? [12:22:01] Did you start the wiki [12:22:31] I am original creator of the wiki and the main administrator [12:23:14] Then he can block you, but has no function, because you can unblock yourself, he can't ban you from it [12:24:16] Only the Miraheze stewards can close a wiki or remove the wiki starter [12:25:34] So it's safe to give that role that's what I wanted to know because I want to have somebody else capable of blocking malicious users [12:27:37] Yes, you can give that role without any worries [12:28:11] You have the ability to remove him as Admin again. [12:29:37] It's safe to give administrator permissions. Bureaucrat... not so much [12:29:52] because only Stewards can demote bureaucrats [12:30:05] wait a sec [12:30:14] yeah [12:31:21] but that means malicious bureau can't kick the other one/fully usurp the position [12:34:57] Well the wiki is currently just me and 2 other members and mainly being built by me but I will be going away for a week with out any wifi Probably and therefore if nobody is there and something happens The damage can be extensive. [12:35:34] So then I have to make that person a Steward ? [12:35:50] If only it were that easy \:P [12:36:00] I recommend you just make them an administrator [12:36:21] Bureaucrats can't really do much more than an administrator and in fact, they can't even block or delete pages without first being an administrator [12:36:29] yeah, just admin is enough to keep things clean [12:37:22] Just in case anything goes wrong but I doubt I still have the higher power ? [12:38:11] If you make them bureaucrat then both of you will be coequals [12:39:00] you don't loose bureau by making someone admin [12:40:37] as long as I can unban myself its all fine [12:47:03] admin won't be able to ban bureau, I believe [13:00:56] Not banning. You can block other admins, but they can just unblock themselves as log as they still are administrators. [13:03:07] Admins can, yeah [13:07:20] I see [13:10:17] Equality? Ew! [13:10:25] /me that is a joke btw [13:10:33] Why does /me now work [13:10:34] Fml [13:11:11] [1/3] I've seen it done several times on the Dutch Wikipedia. [13:11:12] [2/3] Irritated Admins who disagree, blocking another admin, just to make a statement. [13:11:12] [3/3] I kid you not 😄 [13:48:40] Anyone know where the Discord election rules are? [13:48:50] Can't really find them anywhere [13:54:24] good question [13:54:35] not in the intuitive locations [14:10:06] what election? [14:10:21] election policy [14:12:49] [1/2] where can i find this? [14:12:50] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1209865315303821322/image.png?ex=65e879e1&is=65d604e1&hm=4f10ed7cd60ece68d907f9773f1c7928882869005efaadf89a4a01cb17bdec31& [14:12:56] ive ticked the PI extension [14:13:06] the exact page stated [14:15:00] in your wiki's URL [14:15:22] `...miraheze.org/wiki/Special:InfoboxBuilder/ [14:15:46] there's also Special pages list, accessible from toolbar [14:21:06] alr let me check ty [14:22:33] note that it only builds, edits to the finished box must be done manually [14:23:18] o ok [14:23:20] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1209867961532416062/image.png?ex=65e87c58&is=65d60758&hm=c1fb2e846ac89fb5914f20dc3452d618bea6d477c61f2ed1976c5ad7c5ca3246& [14:23:22] just need to get past this first [14:23:51] yeah, it can take a hot minute [14:49:00] kinda [14:51:49] that would actually be pretty easy, drop the inactive columns (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CreateWiki/cw_wikis_table) from `cw_wikis`, make some boilerplate special page, move the inactivity maintenance script to the new extension [14:52:24] would support that too, anything to simplify extensions and following KISS standards [14:56:28] well, easy for me, of course, as I don't have to care about moving Miraheze's data to the new extension 😈 [15:06:05] https://issue-tracker.miraheze.org/T11883 [15:06:45] hmm [15:07:09] my idea was just a queue extension that lets Stewards handle inactivity/reopening/DP requests faster [15:07:20] you're going a step further and splitting off all of that [15:07:35] Seems I misread the convo then [15:08:25] I thought the point was allowing more people to handle inactivity-related settings without `managewiki-core` or using the remotewiki interface on meta [15:10:14] refresh if it's stuck [15:10:21] in part [15:10:22] but creating a RequestSSL-like extension that lets users request reopenings/DP exemptions would allow Stewards to handle things quicker as they might be able to approve a reopening/exemption with the click of a button versus manually [15:10:37] oh you mean literally a queue, like with ID [15:10:54] isn't that what RfRW does tho? [15:10:59] RfRW is very slow [15:11:07] extremely slow [15:11:21] handling a reopening can take time [15:11:40] you have to open ManageWiki, save the change, edit the page, change the status, ping the user [15:16:13] yeah, I guess that can get pretty tedious [15:17:19] I'll do that extension this weekend, but now I'm kind of intrigued on what removing the concept of inactive wikis from CreateWiki will look like, so I'll keep that task open [15:18:02] I would just need to copypaste ID again for the most part [15:18:24] well, again, Reception did the copypaste for RequestSSL, not me, oops [15:22:09] it can be done in a weekend? [15:22:16] Maybe instead of multiple forms each doing one thing, there should be one form doing many things [15:22:19] it's mostly a copypaste [15:22:25] with a lot of renaming [15:22:50] ahh okay [15:23:10] @agentisai by the way - do you know where the discord election rules went [15:23:23] I can’t find them anywhere on wiki [15:23:27] or here for that matter [15:23:39] I didn’t know we had them written [15:23:57] they're not written anywhere [15:24:07] whoever closed the RfC didn't implement it [15:24:16] Not very wiki of us is it [15:25:34] https://issue-tracker.miraheze.org/T11884 [15:26:46] If you want to refer to the exact message you could use a message link [15:26:56] In this case https://discord.com/channels/407504499280707585/407537962553966603/1209879795903758538 [15:26:59] message links are only useful to discord users [15:27:37] a majority are so it's not a bad supplement [15:27:48] but not required either [15:28:02] :Ban: [15:28:16] Raaaaaidarr [15:28:21] aaaa [15:28:26] Was it you [15:28:27] wait that's britain [15:28:41] I don't even remember where that rfc was tbh [15:28:51] never got farther than mod on discord either [15:29:03] I think it was NDK [15:29:12] Which RFC [15:29:25] Side note is if RfC or RFC [15:29:27] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Discord/RfC_2 [15:29:41] can't really blame the inactive steward for not implementing it [15:29:56] The short cuts are painfully inconsistent [15:30:38] probably should be linked on the main rfc listing if it's not already [15:30:49] such an odd place [15:31:18] discretionary but RfC is probably more correct [15:32:00] we've gotten a lot of roblox wikis lately [15:32:46] So we do have policy on revocation [15:33:41] it seems [15:33:46] The meta redirects are: RFC, RfA, RfGR, RfS, RFCPOL [15:33:59] So permissions seem to be mid lower [15:33:59] [1/5] ``` [15:33:59] [2/5] A moderator may lose their permissions if: [15:33:59] [3/5] a request of no confidence in opened against the user and has a more than 50% support ratio, or [15:34:00] [4/5] the user is inactive from the community for a period of 6 months. [15:34:00] [5/5] ``` [15:34:02] Yup [15:34:13] When did Owen resign ish [15:34:33] yesterday [15:34:48] so ummm, the inactivity clause is going to take a while to kick in [15:34:58] probably an inconsistency [15:35:10] though he never formally resigned from mod [15:35:25] Didn’t he leave his adios message on his page a while ago? [15:35:48] I think a vonc would be warranted in a case where the user has quit all roles, expressed dissatisfaction with platform operation and is known to have submitted a gdpr request (not sure that should have been public but so it is) [15:36:17] but only if they do not respond or are evasive when queried if they want to resign in light of those things [15:36:18] a ver, _tecnicamente_ no ha renunciado a su rol de moderador en Discord [15:37:02] Pardon [15:37:23] I'd further add I do not recall owen ever doing much of the moderating stuff specifically, I've always found it to be a supplement to his ts capacity [15:37:33] there's simply no longer any apparent need [15:37:34] he didn't formally renounce his discord mod role [15:38:13] quit all other roles is probably how I should have put it [15:40:03] I'd proceed to vote if there is nothing within a few more days and it's confirmed he's been messaged [15:43:53] he's only ever done one thing as a mod it seems [15:43:54] https://discord.com/channels/407504499280707585/786615849921675294/1059514896544448592 [15:44:05] ban some spambot back in 2023 [15:44:39] *one thing that could only be done by a mod, of course. Being mod should be more than just using the tools [15:45:47] it can also be about engagement, a metric I would not say has been met at a cursory glance [15:46:44] Don't know in that front, since I wasn't a Discord user until a few weeks ago [15:46:54] Fair [15:47:55] I joined this discord in August and really became an active member of the community(most of my Miraheze interactions are here) later in the year. With current over 6200 messages please send help, I think I’ve seen Owen once. [15:49:10] heya [15:49:18] user:owenrb will give message history to peruse [15:49:22] what's going on? [15:49:36] discussing Owen's status and his activity on Discord until now [15:49:48] Basically [15:49:52] discussing the line to draw in what merits keeping someone aboard as a discord mod, more broadly [15:49:57] now when? [15:50:07] he posted rarely [15:50:20] since I joined in mid 2021 [15:50:26] seen him once in a while [15:50:34] that I can corroborate, odd 7 month gap aside [15:51:09] obviously we started seeing him more often here since March [15:51:11] 2023 [15:51:17] a little bit [15:53:45] I've looked at #elections-archived, seems he was a mod from way back in the day and just kept the role until now: https://discord.com/channels/407504499280707585/875499979060420659 [15:54:28] grandfathered in from when sre, ts and such were mods yes [16:00:30] Now that I've read that RfC, if admins are meant to have all permissions, what is the Discord Manager role? [16:02:03] only NDKilla has it it seems [16:02:31] With how discord roles work, users with Manage Role can grant or remove any role below their highest role [16:02:55] Which means after a successful election, someone with admin as their highest role can’t grant or revoke that role [16:03:10] So Manager is a role above for Killa to close admin elections [16:03:30] huh, I guess you learn something new everyday [16:03:32] Void is the server owner so he can also [16:03:33] thanks! [16:03:37] No worries [16:05:08] (Another related fun fact, administrator is a permissions itself, it grants all other perms, so you don’t need to grant every single flag, and allows users to bypass channel restrictions, so it’s impossible to hide channels or restrict them. Basically like server owner) [16:05:52] owner = the server is in your basement, any owner can simply make the server disappear instantly [16:06:02] but then, any moderator can make all channels disappear too [16:06:09] irreversibly [16:06:27] The only thing they can’t do is manage(ie mute ban or change the nickname) users with higher or equal roles [16:06:40] Yeah owners have unlimited power [16:07:01] I've always been weary of the simple ability to delete messages because that's basically equivalent to server deletion right there [16:07:16] mod+ are not roles to play around with [16:07:40] 2fa should probably be compulsory for mod rights at most stringent [16:10:32] Yeah. I have a borderline phobia of permanent deletion of history [16:11:04] For messages lot of big servers have bots that audit and log all messages deletion and edits [16:11:08] But for channels [16:11:09] Poof [16:11:50] It’s possible to use tools to back up servers to html files [16:13:03] That’s also one of the risks that come with using external bots [16:13:07] it is and I've used them to make archives of deleted channels for server use, but small consolation for a server already booped [16:13:12] and yes, bot security is underrated [16:13:26] I tend to be extremely picky about moderation powers for that reason [16:13:26] If it has manage server and the operator leaks a token by accident [16:13:38] On the IRC from Wikipedia's they often state that logging is forbidden. [16:13:39] https://tenor.com/view/nuke-gif-8044239 [16:13:52] Hm? [16:14:04] logging is kind of not well looked at on the IRC world [16:14:09] forbidding logging is a moot request on today's internet [16:14:22] unless the people in the channel support it explicitly [16:15:04] Yeah. I mean it has its reasons, being able to see edits if people say something that violates community guidelines and hide it [16:15:08] I rather think it is becasue they do not want their discussions ending on discussion pages on Wikipedia 😆 [16:15:21] Makes sense [16:16:11] the logging thing is actually not unique to Wikipedia, Libera.Chat even has a formal policy on logging channels: https://libera.chat/policies/#public-logging [16:16:14] It's just stupid. If you don't want anything popping up elsewhere, don't put it out there [16:16:38] assume at the very least that any message you send has three parties [16:16:48] Yup.7 [16:16:57] Against, Neutral, and Pro [16:17:00] in an open channel assume the open internet can eventually know [16:17:29] though I get such a thing as messages in confidence; though in that case the burdon of security is trusting who you invite [16:17:42] agreed [16:17:45] and such people not being on the same page bit miraheze in the ass last march [16:18:07] messages thrown in public rather out of context specifically to try and tank someone's request [16:18:20] causing further rifts in volunteer trust [16:18:21] I'm getting deja vu from that [16:18:32] I'm describing an instrumental event that lead to june [16:18:34] I don't even remember what specificaly happened [16:19:04] it is hopefully water under the bridge in any case [16:19:12] I do remember it involved lots of conspiracy theories 👽 [16:19:14] Because, what you write on Wikipedia discussions, you can think over. It's slower. What you write on IRC or Discord, is immediate [16:19:16] but lessons should be learned [16:19:34] As I did [16:19:39] The hard way [16:19:44] Aye. Let’s hope it doesn’t rain too much [16:28:42] How Do I create a new page? Yes I can't find the button 😭 [16:29:07] (timeless) [16:29:46] https://agesofconflict.wiki/wiki/Main_Page [16:30:13] [1/2] enable this extension and create the box somewhere [16:30:13] [2/2] [[mw:Extension:Create Page]] [16:30:13] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Create_Page [16:30:14] [16:30:42] or old ways: create a red link and click on it, or type page name in URL then hit Enter [16:31:00] So.. [16:31:13] Where Do I put the downloaded file? [16:31:22] wdym [16:31:36] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:ExtensionDistributor?extdistname=CreatePage&extdistversion=REL1_41 [16:31:46] mate [16:31:48] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1209900288958402650/image.png?ex=65e89a73&is=65d62573&hm=d392fb76d46f23303a9c709ea97c36d6879d3775d8d783fad2cb3c61fe4816fd& [16:31:53] Idk 😭 [16:31:57] ignore install instructions [16:32:01] read Usage part [16:32:10] extensions on Miraheze are already installed [16:32:20] you just turn them on/off in admin menu [16:32:27] I'm so dumb [16:32:30] K my bacd [16:32:37] go to Manage this wiki's extensions and find it [16:33:00] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1209900592391127040/image.png?ex=65e89abc&is=65d625bc&hm=e39005cf721426f6da5f1ea979bf4ecf57cad0ae8c8561f39e60ea73c3a18293& [16:33:26] where's the uh button? [16:33:37] enabled? saved the changes? [16:33:42] Yep.. [16:33:53] now, you should create a box somewhere [16:34:04] Hm? [16:34:10] usually people add a "Create new page" thingy on main page [16:34:21] How Do i uh.. do that? [16:34:29] and here, we take a look at documentation, Usage section [16:34:54] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1209901072139690015/IMG_20240221_193445.jpg?ex=65e89b2e&is=65d6262e&hm=3df76dfa4c177511a745d2afd4cc3dd6016de981b45e283b6e276b319594039a& [16:35:04] ```{{#createpage:}}``` [16:35:04] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/%23createpage:Template: [16:35:09] where Do I put that? [16:35:27] Nvm [16:35:38] on any page or ^ [16:35:44] Ty [16:36:03] Can I put it in sidebar CSS? [16:36:20] sadly no [16:36:24] Shoot [16:36:32] maybe w/ JS [16:36:39] I'll put it in my profile for now [16:36:56] otherwise you could make a whole separate page about page creation, and link it in sidebar [16:37:21] I did that on my wiki, because I love to make things complicated lol [16:37:29] two ways to just make a page right on the spot [16:37:48] the URL and red link were mentioned [16:37:56] good [16:37:57] although maybe missed [16:38:08] they're really the simplest ones [16:38:31] I have to try out Create Page at some point because looking at the docs it's not entirely what I assumed it was [16:38:37] which is not uncommon with tehse extensions [16:38:51] what are those link and * things you get on wiki pages [16:39:04] References I think..? [16:39:08] how Do I use them? [16:39:15] Like impliment [16:43:47] [1/2] just to make sure, you mean this? [16:43:47] [2/2] [16:43:50] link/ref [16:43:59] Thanks [16:44:28] I've tried like 10 times wring the bloody page 'cause whenever I switch to source editing gives me an error and resets my progress :/ [16:44:45] Strange… [16:45:04] to add the list of references you should type `` in the section [16:45:06] You should just be able to disable that source editor in preferences [16:45:18] Doesn’t it appear automatically? [16:45:44] `.../ref` is used inside article for separate entries [16:46:40] It will automatically add it to the bottom of the page if is unused, but for obvious reasons most people prefer it to be in its own controlled subsection [16:46:56] using the reference tag is good to have some control [16:47:34] like having the liat before navbox, and not opposite [16:47:37] I will start doing that! [16:48:01] unrelated; just found the gigantic wiki in wikidiscover browsing, excellent styling as usual [16:48:31] thanks [16:48:31] btw how do I access my analytics page on my wiki? [16:48:52] hopefully it'll start booming now [16:49:10] w/ revival being real 🥹 [16:49:51] Special:Analytics [16:50:02] https://agesofconflict.wiki/wiki/Special:Analytics [16:50:30] [1/2] Damn [16:50:30] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1209904996183969812/image.png?ex=65e89ed6&is=65d629d6&hm=9feae6fd4b9f95c596a9c99799b5a4f02ed83f1cdf59404d4f307d59b753671a& [16:51:47] Nothing appears on it yet tho: https://wiki.mineplay.nl/wiki/Special:Analytics [16:51:55] Oh it’s probably because my wiki is too new [17:33:46] How long does it take for extension to take effect? [17:34:03] It should be near instantaneous [17:34:59] Okay, so that's not the problem [17:47:01] How long does it take for a content model to change? [17:47:17] should be near instant as well [17:47:42] interface/managewiki changes can take a minute (probably much less given new infra) so that's something to keep in mind on those [17:48:06] I'll note that usually, pages won't automatically change content model upon enabling an extension [18:04:53] Fixed the problem! The CSS wouldn't work without the template's parameters set [20:19:47] LMAO [20:41:40] I would like to arrange that all pages added to the User namespace be automatically added to the User category. Is this possible? [20:42:31] huh? [20:43:18] Only if you use a template on all these pages, Like a navigation or so [20:43:42] As far as I know, this is not done in MediaWiki [20:44:11] If a one-time thing you can use `Special:MassEditRegex`... otherwise maybe a preload containing the category and/or a bot that actively does that? [20:44:12] The idea is to avoid making the user have to do anything special to get his pages added. Otherwise, I'll just instruct them to add [[Category:User]] to their pages. [20:44:12] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Category:User [20:44:13] [20:44:38] Why, if I can ask> [20:44:49] Because users are lazy. 🙂 [20:44:59] No what is the benefit [20:45:05] ? [20:45:14] Could maybe look at some preload stuff to have the [[Category:User]], then they at least would have to manually remove it from the page to not have it in, but yeah I don't see the point either in doing it [20:45:14] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Category:User [20:45:15] [20:45:24] it doesn't exist on Meta [20:45:31] which is why I'm not exactly sure why it's needed [20:45:56] You can already list pages by manespace, what is the purpose of the category? [20:46:02] I'd like to have a list of contributors that isn't dependent on the users taking action. [20:46:12] I do see some merit to a users category [20:46:22] Special:ListUsers? [20:46:23] preloads can be made but I haven't seen them applied across namespaces [20:46:29] [[Special:ListUsers]] [20:46:29] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:ListUsers [20:46:30] [20:46:50] Take a look at the special page, is that what you mean? [20:46:53] I like to categorize as many pages as possible as you may have seen, including meta's own userspace [20:46:54] I mean tbf, that it doesn't exist on meta, is not necessarily a reason something shouldn't exist on other wiki's. But yeah Namespaces, are already a stronger "bond" of pages, than categories in a way [20:47:12] fair [20:47:45] Special:ListUsers is unrealable [20:47:51] considering centralauth [20:48:02] Sure, but I have a category tree that serves to index all pages in various ways, and I'd like to show all users in it. [20:48:04] (and I can never remember the name of the emote to react to a bot post to delete it xD, searching for trash or bin doens't make it show up xD) [20:49:28] LOL, that special page is showing me garbage. [20:49:45] wastebasket sounds like a forcely made synonym 😆  [20:50:05] Dude that gets me all the fucking time. Who is calling it a waste basket?? [20:50:20] ohh that is the name... yeah what kind of name is that [20:50:23] bleh name [20:51:12] Speaking of which, that garbage appears to be remnants from some other wiki, because it has lots and lots of null entries, plus entries for other accounts--and with dates that long predate the existence of my wiki. [20:51:13] [1/2] that what I said [20:51:14] [2/2] it shows you every Miarheze user which visited your wiki [20:51:29] And not to mention there a several standard emotes that have multiple names, so could keep the waste basket and also give it :bin: or :trashcan: or something [20:53:49] Hmm preloads might be best for your wiki since most active editors would have their own user page right? Or just telling your editors to include the category, depending on how many people contribute to your wiki [20:55:30] And on top of that if you don't have already get the hotcat gadget too, to make it far easier and faster to add/remove categories to pages after creation as well, for cases where it is not properly categories on creation from the get go [20:56:02] I'm using [[mw:Extension:NamespacePreload]] personally and it works well for this [20:56:02] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NamespacePreload [20:56:03] [20:57:45] I'll go ahead and use preloads. And also, I will be running a bot to periodically check the wiki out and I'll add something to it to notify me if someone doesn't have the category for some reason. [20:58:33] [1/2] Wouldn't this work? https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Create_User_Page [20:58:34] [2/2] It auto creates the user page with the template template:User, then add the category to that template. Right? [20:59:01] I haven't fiddled around with the template itself but it does get auto added. [20:59:17] OK, another thing to look into. [20:59:26] Oh that extension looks nice [21:01:24] Create User Page extension doesn't seem to be installed on MH though at all from what I can tell, so would have to request that on phabricator then [21:02:18] Would need a security review [21:03:19] just checked the page: will likely be fine [21:03:25] other issues not withstanding [21:03:26] I mean yeah that would be part of requesting any new extension, though they fact it does have that "This extension is maintained by a member of the MediaWiki Stakeholders' Group." banner, it probably gonna be fine [21:03:29] (am not SRE so) [21:03:48] seems to be an employe of the WMF actually [21:04:03] Is there a way to grep the list of extensions on miraheze? [21:04:31] how so? [21:04:32] One way is to look at the list in ManageWiki [21:04:53] Uh...that's "lists", right? [21:05:01] There are other default extensions though visible in Special:Version [21:05:08] Yeah, multiple categories [21:05:14] [[Extensions]] [21:05:14] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Extensions [21:05:15] [21:05:47] also why do you need Create User Page? [21:05:55] Though after the search got added in the Managewiki(and man that saves SO much time compared to before) imo it feels more like a singular list of extensions [21:07:08] My particular goal is to get each created user page into the User category so that it'll show up when checking out the categories. [21:07:17] Oh [21:07:54] I'm worried how nice it will play with CentralAuth [21:08:11] ie someone views a wiki, local account is made and a page [21:08:55] Why does when I search image with visual editor it aways show me first unrelated images that I didn't upload. [21:09:04] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1209970064879517747/Screenshot_20240221_210729.jpg?ex=65e8db6f&is=65d6666f&hm=1cf801497c382dfa80d1dbf3fdfd78ab2751bc99fceff5136be7fbcb6efdf137& [21:09:06] Well, for my purposes, preloads will do--I just want to ensure that all user pages are visible without having making readers have to mess with namespaces, and I can manually fix up anyone who removes the category tag. [21:09:25] It also searches the commons. [21:09:31] must be tie w/ Wikimedia/Miraheze Common [21:09:37] gotta turn it of in settings [21:10:33] Would linking to [[Special:PrefixIndex/User]] work? [21:10:33] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/User [21:10:34] [21:11:09] well wait [21:11:15] wont show if no page at all [21:11:41] And shows, when it's a blank page [21:11:59] No, it won't do--that's the namespace annoyance I want to avoid making readers have to deal with. [21:12:59] And it wouldn't be seamlessly integrated into whatever else the user looks for overview information from. So, preloads it is, since the other alternative isn't available. [21:13:37] Why do you want readers to be able to see a list of users [21:15:10] Because I'm a completist and want everything available for user viewing. Because I think it would be valuable for the readers to know who the users are who are sufficiently motivated to add a page. And because it would allow the readers to scan for people they know or know of. [21:16:32] I can't see the average user caring that much tbh [21:16:39] but [21:16:44] I can, trust me. 🙂 [21:16:57] [1/2] > are sufficiently motivated to add a page [21:16:57] [2/2] If you wanna be more exclusive [21:16:58] (Among my potential users, anyway.) [21:17:11] linking to the list of autoconfirmed users may work [21:17:46] A special page, right? I want to avoid them. They're ugly and difficult to use. And don't integrate well into anything else. [21:18:59] mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm [21:19:00] aight [21:19:23] If you wanna use a category to list users ig the extension is the ebst bet [21:19:24] Anyway, like I said, I'll just use preloads. And tell my maintenance bot if someone removes the category. [21:19:37] Which extension? [21:20:04] Is CirrusSearch ready to use on MH? [21:20:04] [1/2] Several wikis I've been involved with have a Category:Users category for user pages. I side with Bill Blake. [21:20:05] [2/2] Though the category has always been manually added in my usage. [21:20:14] nvm i didnt see preloads [21:20:26] should be [21:21:25] There are 3 CirrusSearch request on MH and only the middle one got approved [21:21:40] I like to make things easy for users, so instead of telling each user that they should do this and that in their user page, I'd like to do as much as I can automatically. [21:21:41] :ThinkerMH: [21:21:50] https://discord.com/channels/407504499280707585/407504500136607745/1203229472510320721 [21:21:57] [1/3] Be a public wiki [21:21:57] [2/3] Have over 5 active users (excluding bots) [21:21:57] [3/3] Have over 1,000 content pages [21:22:02] It probably won't be made an extension you can enable by yourself because you have to run a script to enable it and it doesn't like to be run by ManageWiki [21:22:20] [1/2] A simple thing is what everyone wants: [21:22:20] [2/2] A Babelbox, or Userbox, which puts the user immediately in categories, per language, per interest [21:22:21] need to ask on [[SN]] [21:22:21] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/SN [21:22:22] [21:23:04] We can probably make it work by adding some hook support to ManageWikiInstaller if we really want @agentisai [21:23:09] If you use userbox templates, you could add the category to the topper template and then anyone who uses the template would automatically be categorized. Then you'd only have to check on user pages that don't use user boxes. [21:23:38] [1/2] I did [21:23:38] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1209973729732333568/25Cjpm6.png?ex=65e8ded9&is=65d669d9&hm=5b0e1dcd5e5355ff7c3102f6e60e272d56f1fa07b49a7f105ca5bc749e9375f0& [21:23:52] oh forgot [21:24:10] 💀 [21:28:55] Huh. The Preloader extension comes with an unmaintained caveat. Is there another way? [21:29:21] ^ [21:30:39] Not listed on the extensions page earlier referenced. I'll check your info. [21:31:21] It's not installed here tmk. [21:31:40] [1/3] @bwm0 sorry for pinging, but you are shown online [21:31:40] [2/3] https://dev.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:Terminal [21:31:40] [3/3] Could you tell me who can help me activating TemplateStyles on Dev.Wiki? [21:31:50] That's fine, no worries [21:31:51] Um [21:31:58] Not me tbh, I'm not great with that [21:32:06] are there even any crats for dev? [21:32:11] or is the extension installed [21:32:22] Preloader is one of the extensions I maintain forks for IIRC [21:32:38] so we do have it [21:32:47] I don't know where to look for that [21:33:26] Pppery Reception and Zppix [21:33:35] There should be when I resigned as a bureaucrat I made sure their were others. [21:34:08] [1/2] sweet christ [21:34:08] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1209976373507268688/mekm9Hh.png?ex=65e8e14f&is=65d66c4f&hm=aea2e34183407e8a378fce5a87baeea9feea89f290fb61add1d08e418f0d1c3a& [21:34:32] one of the 1500 most active wikipedians. huh [21:34:33] It is enabled on Miraheze though, otherwise I couldn't use it on my wiki :ThinkingHardMH: [21:34:52] global or in mw? [21:35:06] Should be in ManageWiki [21:36:08] Yes, it's there. But there's a warning on the page that it's not being actively maintained. [21:40:47] I've got NamespacePreload turned on, now to set it up and make sure it does what I want. [21:46:15] I'm supposed to create a page "MediaWiki:Preload-namespace-2" with the preload text, but I am not allowed to do it. Any ideas? [21:47:58] Never mind. Idiot me did it in the wrong wiki. [21:48:31] Been there, Done that too! [21:52:31] If I put a template, say, {{UserPreload}} into that preload file, will the user's edit box show that text, or will it show whatever the template generates? [21:52:31] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:UserPreload [21:52:31] [22:05:24] Docs claim that that's the default, but unless I go creating accounts, I get only one try at testing this, so want to have all my ducks in a row before I click "save". [22:07:30] hi! today i realised one of my wikis got deleted (probably due to inactivity) when wikis are deleted, is it permanent? [22:08:12] If it was recent prob not [22:08:30] Wiki's are only permanently deleted when SRE runs a script [22:08:40] you could ask on I thin [RfRW]]? [22:08:47] What’s the link to your wiki? [22:08:49] [[RfRW]] [22:08:49] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/RfRW [22:08:51] [22:09:20] deletion generally has a grace period before the wiki is dropped, that's where it's permanent [22:09:29] though if it's public it should be on archive.org in any case [22:09:34] Docs say it depends on the `$wgNamespacePreloadDoExpansion` variable, which could be change-able in ManageWiki. Otherwise, I'm not sure if you can check variables like these in an other way? [22:09:35] https://truenationalfm.miraheze.org [22:10:02] You should definitely ask in [[RfRW]] [22:10:02] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/RfRW [22:10:02] [1/2] simple to undelete by a @Stewards [22:10:02] [2/2] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:ManageWiki/core/truenationalfmwiki [22:10:03] [22:10:12] see if someone pops in, might not need to add an entry [22:10:24] if a steward doesn't in a bit then yeah, add to rfrw [22:10:32] Presumably, I could grab the mh configs from github or wherever they're hiding and check. I was hoping to avoid that. 🙂 [22:11:37] from experience we typically don't deal with settings unless requested or needed [22:11:41] so prob default [22:11:52] Ignore that I have a version of it that I maintain and is used on Miraheze [22:12:01] may i ask what is that, and where? sorry for bothering [22:12:15] [1/2] shortcut to [22:12:16] [2/2] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_reopening_wikis [22:12:32] but technically that's not the ideal spot, it is a request for undeletion [22:12:52] OK. I'll keep that in mind. [22:12:56] [1/2] the true best spot for a request to undelete is here [22:12:57] [2/2] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Steward_requests#Wiki_(un)deletion [22:13:06] thanks! [22:13:07] @feliipezzz just do what he says [22:13:20] he used to wear the fancy blue hat [22:13:39] I ain't no po po [22:13:42] thank you guys! yall are always helpful [22:13:53] I vaguely remember a page that actually showed all the settings. Am I just getting old or is there such a page? [22:14:09] Special:ManageWiki/settigns? [22:15:25] It's not all settings, but if this extension has this variable exposed to ManageWiki it should be there yeah [22:16:10] Just checked, it's there [22:16:20] The search bar indeed is a godsend [22:17:08] It should show up if you search for "preload" [22:17:14] In settings [22:18:18] Yeah, I just discovered that the search bar does the trick. 🙂 [22:18:32] You can access those ^ and all ManageWiki sections from the sidebar btw :pupCoffeeMH: [22:18:55] The links look like "manage this wiki's..." [22:19:28] [1/6] ```Manage this wiki's core settings [22:19:28] [2/6] Manage this wiki's extensions [22:19:29] [3/6] Manage this wiki's namespaces [22:19:29] [4/6] Manage this wiki's permissions [22:19:29] [5/6] Manage this wiki's additional settings [22:19:30] [6/6] Manage this wiki's backups``` [22:19:59] Yup, that's the links [22:20:15] Oh backups are new? [22:20:24] not really [22:20:37] probably changed wording from data dumps [22:24:40] Presumably, if I want to have text in the preload that is instructions to the editor of the user page and not shown on the page itself, I can stick the text in an HTML comment. But I suspect there's a better, or at least more approved-of, way. How should I do that? [22:25:12] Comments are actually a good way to do this I think [22:25:26] Comments are at least how I do it with the places I use preloads [22:25:27] There's also `` but [22:25:38] But I think it might confuse more [22:26:09] I don't think that would really do anything in terms of preload, as that is a template tag mainly [22:27:28] Oh right it's late [22:28:23] Comments are clearly "this is a note for the editor" as opposed to something else imo [22:28:58] Especially with syntax highlighting which you hopefully have enabled [22:29:26] I don't know if I do, I'm just getting started. [22:30:26] The ironic thing though is that I also have a comment in my preloads to instruct the editor to delete most of those comments anyway, as they are kinda ugly and irrelevant usually for further edits after the creation xD [22:31:08] enable the CodeMirror extension for syntax highlighting, it is an absolute godsend for source editing [22:31:40] Source as in mediawiki source? [22:32:32] as in the default page editor (in contrast to Visual editor) [22:34:19] I'll look into it later. For now, I'm comfortable with the default editor. [22:36:19] [1/3] Source editor is the most powerfull for sure, and CodeMirror is a straight up benefit, there is no downsides to that. [22:36:20] [2/3] Visual editor on the other hand while it is generally easier for new editors does limit certain things. [22:36:20] [3/3] So there is no reason to not enable CodeMirror (imo it should be enabled by default really), unlike Visual Editor [22:37:47] CodeMirror will not disable the VisualEditor, just add colorful highlights into the source editor to make it readable. After it's enabled you can toggle the highlighting with a pen/marker icon on the toolbar whwn in source mode [22:39:22] There is one reason to not enable it right now: This human has limited bandwidth and I have other things I want to play with first. 🙂 [22:39:35] I've never used VE. I need to see the code. [22:40:42] Yeah Visual is nice at first but once you get comfortable with source editor you probably won't want to come back. But there's time for that. Have fun with your wiki :pupCoffeeMH: [22:41:41] I edited Wikipedia since 2010. When VE came, I tried to see what it was, and never looked at it again 😄 [22:42:49] If not for Visual Editor many wouldn't have started wiki editing in the first place though. It helps make things more accessible for the regular person who doesn't breate wikitext regularly like we do 😆 [22:43:46] I wonder how the'd learn to write documents at MS Word or OO Doc [22:44:22] The BB codes were my learning school 😄 [22:44:34] Uh, is VE where you just type in the wikicode and have to ask for a preview to see the result? Because that's what I'm doing. [22:44:53] No, that's source editor :pupCoffeeMH: [22:45:10] That's the best way [22:45:14] VE is more akin to a regular text editor that shows formatting right away [22:45:18] OK, somewhere in prehistory I must have set that up as my default. [22:45:38] It could be default [22:45:42] Leave it as such, You'll learn so much more [22:45:59] I really don't like editors that do things for me. [22:46:16] Then we're on the same page :EpicFaceMH: [22:46:24] LOL. [22:46:58] https://dev.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:Terminal [22:47:13] This is how my first screen looked [22:48:12] I've been using essentially the same text editor for 40+ years and it's a straight text editor. Just the way that intended. [22:49:18] ( Time for me to head to sleep. Have a good applicable time of day :pupCoffeeMH: ) [22:50:02] [1/2] Still using Notepad [22:50:02] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1209995474367549581/image.png?ex=65e8f319&is=65d67e19&hm=8a1a08895f1b801025baf1d4d4db938c33b4736f5cd366c9b7818c0f1bcf1295& [22:50:21] 💤 [22:52:35] [1/3] I still have the .exe files from the Win95 😄 [22:52:35] [2/3] i.e. charmap.exe [22:52:36] [3/3] I just love thos simple programs that still work [22:54:14] I thankfully have never had to do much with Microsoft; I went straight from an Apple ][ to a 386 running Unix. [22:54:15] Yes, DataDump's UI and i18n were changed a bit [22:54:28] I find the wording "backup" to be more understandable than "dump" [22:55:21] "Dump" is probably more accurate, unless mh is saving them and one can get to them if something awful happens. [22:56:26] It is more accurate but 95% of the people who visit the page are noobs who might not understand jargon [22:57:22] True. So long as they understand that they have to actually download the thing to be able to use it, the word doesn't matter that much. [22:58:35] Many of the wording in MediaWiki should be simplified! [22:59:13] The coders understand the language, but the users don't [22:59:26] Especially if English isn't your native language [23:00:33] I've noticed that a lot of the language is awkward. If I wasn't so busy I'd probably make some changes. Maybe once I'm more comfortable with this whole wiki thing. [23:01:30] spam-knowledgeable people, help me out here [23:01:40] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1209998404495745055/IMG_4154.png?ex=65e8f5d4&is=65d680d4&hm=a1485d2ae78b91ac1bb2bf7bd11da14f3421bd54c21c6f5200b1c243442728e3& [23:01:50] i’m not entirely sure what to make of it [23:02:25] the account was hacked previously - does this look like a scam [23:02:31] Sounds like a phishing mail you receive often [23:02:41] Thought so too but wasn’t sure [23:03:04] When I created my wiki a year or so ago, that account created a talk page there. [23:03:27] (I let it lie fallow for a year and then got tired of clicking the "don't delete me" button. 🙂 ) [23:03:31] It's still compromised, yes [23:03:54] Ignore it. [23:04:02] It's spam [23:04:04] Just checking hah [23:04:07] Yup [23:04:21] It’s still in this server though [23:04:23] Discord Support never responds to shit. [23:04:31] Dark is a GR I think? [23:04:40] @agentisai i’d probably recommend a ban since it’s hacked [23:04:44] was [23:04:51] have the role it seems [23:04:51] . [23:05:11] still is but there’s no way to recover the original account i’m pretty sure [23:06:07] unless he makes headway with ts/support it's hacked and all you can do is report, block and ban [23:06:27] we should ban from here and WT server [23:06:30] yes [23:06:40] though usually a kick does the job [23:06:43] yeah [23:06:51] i don’t have perms on either so will need a functionary [23:07:57] @Discord Moderators? [23:08:20] <.labster> What's up? [23:08:41] Banning @darkmatterman4500 [23:08:50] Removing his roles [23:09:02] kick should do until further needed [23:09:12] Anyone good at seo? I need help on improving my wiki's CLS according to google (made a post in support) [23:09:14] yeah kick [23:09:24] I think theres some guides on Meta [23:09:28] [[SEO]]? [23:09:28] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/SEO [23:09:30] [23:09:33] worth a shot [23:09:40] not really a topic seen on meta much actually [23:09:55] <.labster> A topic we need to deal with [23:10:02] it should be covered, some essay for improving search rankings and competing with bigger powers [23:10:16] similar to the growing infobox guide we've finally got [23:10:32] can we grab a kick for WT server as well [23:10:38] cc @cosmicalpha [23:12:29] <.labster> I think someone else already kicked him [23:13:52] What happened? [23:14:07] [1/2] I would argure that is a reason to enable it, it is a few clicks to enable it, and it is gonna save you SO much time as it is much easier to see what does what, like the = signs around text for headers are then blue the various form for [], {} etc gets various colors, things bolded or italicized with '' and ''' actually get bolded and italicised etc etc. It [23:14:07] [2/2] is super nice, and once you start using parser functions... oh boy I don't want to write parser functions without codeMirror, that is borderline impossible [23:14:07] dmm still compromised [23:14:30] ah [23:15:15] Actually, that might make things worse for me. I'm visually impaired and visual clutter is not my friend. That's why I'm going to experiment later. [23:18:03] Yeah it’s a hacked account [23:20:20] What's the magic I need to make a [[Category:User]] not affect the page it's on but only the page it is included on (via preloading)? [23:20:20] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Category:User [23:20:21] [23:24:10] [cat]/includeonly [23:24:13] You mean ? [23:24:25] Too late 😉 [23:24:29] So that should make the category part of that category, but not the pages that use said template. [23:24:47] It sounds vaguely familiar; I'll look it up. [23:27:27] is there a way to do the reverse? [23:27:36] [23:27:47] It's good shit [23:27:53] Like, make the template page not part of the category [23:28:17] Eg Template:A wouldn't should up in Category A but all of the pages its on would [23:28:42] No, that's what does. [23:29:11] So put include only around the category link? [23:29:44] Yeah, like this: [[Category:User]]/includeonly [23:29:44] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Category:User [23:29:45] [23:30:19] [1/3] Yeah, so allows me to put the template in a Template category. [23:30:19] [2/3] And allows me to makes all the pages using that template be in a category. [23:30:19] [3/3] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1210005611949981817/image.png?ex=65e8fc8a&is=65d6878a&hm=531e5b5f7503044353d8b2ebee3a488c6ecece67ff62724c7aa5c78a91e01e41& [23:30:43] Awesome thank u! [23:31:11] This page might be useful: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Transclusion [23:31:47] (Should I remove the stuff discord stuck on?) [23:32:37] discretionary [23:32:41] Not really necessary in this case. [23:32:49] it's if you link a handful and it does that I'd start using <> [23:33:02] I normaly do that when it doesn't show anything interesting [23:33:08] The angles stop that? [23:33:17] they suppress embeds when placed on each end, ye [23:33:20] Yess, the <> are so good [23:33:26] Good, I'll remember that. [23:33:37] Didn't know that [23:33:41] I think spoilers also suppress embeds but <> is the proper method of doing it. [23:34:24] Another fun Discord fact, you can also ping someone without alerting them by putting @silent at the start of your message. [23:34:26] [23:34:30] at the end of the day it's not hard to just wipe them off post-send but eh [23:34:39] Ooh Thanks for that [23:35:07] Is white space at the start of wiki text harmless or does it affect spacing or formatting? [23:35:31] It formats it to a 
/pre
[23:36:08] 	  So it ends up as open space in the displayed page?
[23:36:19] 	  Hang on
[23:37:27] 	  yeah while the <> are nice to suppress them before they arrive clicking the X beside them have the same effect after it is posted, if you forget to do it
[23:37:45] 	  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1210007485835124766/image.png?ex=65e8fe49&is=65d68949&hm=628ffe99a9cb7efaec93a7cf32d171caa2a75c7550c58d3bdd887c84999cef63&
[23:38:11] 	  You see it is put in a grey box, disabeling code
[23:38:43] 	  huh never heard of that one, and I do know a lot of discord tricks, though how would that work, if there is a user or pingable role called silent on the server already?
[23:39:34] 	  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1210007940887486464/image.png?ex=65e8feb5&is=65d689b5&hm=0fd982857339e83abe7e38d41f2be956c8630cedc02edd8ff41e83235a0c688e&
[23:39:36] 	  lol Huh. I'd imagine Discord would just prevent users and roles from being called silent.
[23:40:31] 	  See examples
[23:40:35] 	  Clearly they don't 😉
[23:40:50] 	  so thats what dthat does
[23:40:52] 	  I just uh sent a message and edit it in
[23:41:00] 	  @pixldev
[23:41:01] 	  the trick is if they let you do it for id name
[23:41:06] 	  was talking to brandon before
[23:41:12] 	  i was here for it
[23:41:16] 	  try another channel
[23:42:03] 	  @gummiel
[23:42:13] 	  @rodejong
[23:42:17] 	  Yeah you can still do it.
[23:42:55] 	  yeah lol... that gave me the orangeish backgroun of a notification but no sound or anything like that
[23:42:58] 	  [1/2] Cause Discord lets you choose whether to keep it as basic syntax or a user object. If you don't choose a user it'll just be the @silent tag.
[23:42:59] 	  [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1210008798102560840/image.png?ex=65e8ff82&is=65d68a82&hm=2af04488b3d1d47f68fd1f4868c73ef09f5029ba2bc662f4ac97f60aeac189ec&
[23:43:40] 	  But uh, back on topic.. lol
[23:44:00] 	  Something about spaces
[23:44:30] 	  [1/2] OK, from what I see, if you start a wiki code line with spaces it affects that line.  So it's essential that my preload file not have trailing spaces in it.  So my next question is what effect trailing newlines in my preload will have.  My preload doesn't generate any visible text, but I'd like to have some newlines between the comment in the preload and where the user should
[23:44:30] 	  [2/2]  type.
[23:45:08] 	  huh intersting when I swapped back that did actually change your message there back as well curious, but neat, but yeah we are getting too off-topic I geuss now
[23:47:34] 	  not yet
[23:47:38] 	  kick DMM
[23:48:19] 	 <.labster> I don’t see him on the list of users
[23:55:23] 	  I assume everyone has, ah, spaced out?
[23:57:50] 	  If you want some newlines, you should use 
 probably :)
[23:58:13] 	  I'm not sure how it'll respond to spaces, maybe just try it and see what happens?
[23:58:42] 	  No, I specifically don't want newlines.  I just want some visual space between the end of the comment and where the person editing the page should start typing.
[23:59:15] 	  I'm a "measure twice, cut once" type.  I prefer to ask questions first, even if I look dumb in the process. 🙂
[23:59:50] 	  I don't think there is much you can do there, you could try and insert some /nowiki tags with the newlines in it, but at that point you might as well put the newlines inside the comment itself anyway it seems to me
[23:59:56] 	  [1/3] You can use 
[23:59:56] 	  [2/3] ::::
[23:59:56] 	  [3/3] Which indents the line