[00:06:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority, replying to elliethepwincess> png will work but is not necessarily backwards compatable with older browsers whereas ico is. Also browsers will naturally request a favicon.ico not favicon.png (shouldn't make too much difference since MediaWiki sends the icon meta tag) but the industry standard is ico.
[01:10:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <emicraftnoob, replying to originalauthority> no, .ico sucks, is better using .png
[01:10:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> Thats your opinion but .ico is the industry standard for a reason.
[01:11:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <emicraftnoob> once I used .ico and it didn't work
[01:11:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <emicraftnoob> but with a .png works
[01:11:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <emicraftnoob> is that I'm in mac?
[01:12:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <emicraftnoob> .ico is for windows programs
[01:12:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority, replying to emicraftnoob> What? 😂😂
[01:13:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <z_ezinho, replying to emicraftnoob> for me other way around
[01:13:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> .ico has nothing to do with the operating system
[01:13:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority, replying to emicraftnoob> skill issue
[01:13:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <emicraftnoob> sthapppppp!!!
[01:15:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <emicraftnoob> lets talk about how bad and broken is editthis.info
[01:15:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <emicraftnoob> boyz
[01:17:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <emicraftnoob> [1/2] lets bring this again because is good idea
[01:17:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <emicraftnoob> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1228876760855216219/Captura_de_Pantalla_2024-04-01_a_las_9.51.51_a.m..png?ex=662da3ab&is=661b2eab&hm=300d79c8caae881c64fc75e685090630caf2a89d470a4dc84e66c34281fedf07&
[01:18:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> No
[01:19:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <emicraftnoob> :'(
[01:23:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> You just got unbanned and I would not want to have to ban again
[01:23:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> So let's keep offtopic to #offtopic
[01:29:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.imamy., replying to awing_ding> [1/2] Thank you for sharing the image.   I saw this too.  Almost like a trick question to see if I were paying attention.  I'm glad I wasn't the only one where the options were reversed.  
[01:29:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.imamy., replying to awing_ding> [2/2] The questions looked normal on revote.
[01:57:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pneuma01> [1/2] Today's Miraheze is weird. Inline templates are output with punctuation marks joined together but broken up by <p> tags.
[01:57:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pneuma01> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1228886715758936094/image.png?ex=662dacf0&is=661b37f0&hm=327d09556537d7f7f1db7b7774a2a2bfe50d90bdd78276ae074ca819dec5f7aa&
[02:21:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pneuma01> I don't trust the <p> tag generation as it seems to be random. So I solved this by changing all <p> tags to `display:inline;` 😩
[04:46:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ap.png> sounds more like a mediawiki problem
[05:44:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tedkalashnikov> yeah this is how mediawiki behaves. and its very silly
[06:41:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pneuma01> But the layout of a page I created months ago was broken when I edited it today. Yet the layout was not broken on yesterday's cached page
[07:31:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to pneuma01> [1/2] I actually had this issue couple of days ago, my js tooltip template suddenly started doing that
[07:31:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to pneuma01> [2/2] how to replace div part of it w/ a span and br tho
[07:33:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [1/2] like, the tooltip is a template, but the issue was w/ inline template which uses that tooltip template
[07:33:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [2/2] I still can't get why it started behaving like that when for months since implementing it had no issues
[08:38:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notmario.> how long does it usually take to get a wiki request approved?
[08:41:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bolsak> [1/2] I want to upload a mov file to a page but it says the filename isn't allowed. anyone have an idea on how to fix it?
[08:41:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bolsak> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1228988558019268669/image.png?ex=662e0bc9&is=661b96c9&hm=dcd954590d5bd69d5310d9a801afa511ad7ed7d409045ba8ff3da7b46f77e2c1&
[08:44:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bolsak> for reference the file is only called DefaultDance
[08:53:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to bolsak> check additional setting, media tab, if mov format is allowed
[08:54:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bolsak, replying to theoneandonlylegroom> I'm new to this, where is the additional settings tab?
[09:10:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to bolsak> there must be a "manage this wiki's additional settings" link in admin sidebar
[09:13:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mx.lilasekhmet, replying to notmario.> Mine was approved on the same day I sent in the request, but it depends when people are able to get to it- I think it's usually within like, 2 days?
[09:13:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notmario.> alright
[09:18:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bolsak, replying to theoneandonlylegroom> Couldn't find that, but when I went to a designated upload page mov wasn't a permitted file type. That might be why
[09:18:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bolsak> thanks for the help though
[09:19:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to bolsak> are you a bureaucrat on that wiki?
[09:19:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bolsak, replying to theoneandonlylegroom> not the original creator if that's what that means, I'm just an admin I think
[09:21:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to bolsak> [1/4] I believe admins can access it still
[09:21:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to bolsak> [2/4] it looks like this
[09:21:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to bolsak> [3/4] you can access via `Special:ManageWiki/settings#mw-section-media` too
[09:21:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to bolsak> [4/4] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1228998456467656715/IMG_20240414_121950.jpg?ex=662e1501&is=661ba001&hm=900d29fdee3ff115e72cbab9e86b45567cf3c51b6014cfa1a952831994ba9c1d&
[09:23:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bolsak, replying to theoneandonlylegroom> yeah I might not have the perms. went to that page and I can't select/unselect anything
[09:24:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bolsak> so I probably only have editor perms to change pages and upload media
[09:46:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gummiel, replying to theoneandonlylegroom> No those are manageWiki namespace, so crat only by default
[09:51:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> weird I was given sysop and bureau wasn't meddling w/ permissions, and I had access
[09:51:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> :ThinkerMH:
[09:51:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to notmario.> What is your request ID?
[09:52:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> oh well
[09:52:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notmario., replying to rodejong> https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:RequestWikiQueue/43277
[09:54:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to notmario.> I look at it, we have been swamped the last couple of days
[09:54:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notmario.> thanks!
[10:01:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to notmario.> Please check
[10:02:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notmario.> yeah, i'm writing a response
[10:14:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notmario.> alright, sent
[10:22:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <li.ao> Hey all, it's been around 10 days since I updated my RequestSSL request for the last time. May I know if anyone can give me a response?
[11:55:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <suzuneu> [1/2] creating
[11:55:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <suzuneu> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1229037312512622632/image.png?ex=662e3931&is=661bc431&hm=ccf901b4261db5fbff82bd7ff71a4e23415e1efe059294602931a6d15b55b519&
[11:58:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> That would be awesome!!
[12:03:17] <RhinosF1>	 Plan to make .miraheze.org a dropdown
[12:03:25] <RhinosF1>	 More will be options soon
[12:39:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rismika, replying to suzuneu> Is this feature already present on Meta?
[12:40:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <suzuneu, replying to rismika> No
[12:40:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <suzuneu> It's my developing gadget
[12:40:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <suzuneu> will be released soon
[12:47:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rismika> Ok It's great work.
[12:49:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to suzuneu> Beautiful
[12:50:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to RhinosF1> 👀
[12:51:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to pixldev> It's not a secret
[12:51:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> We've announced a name change
[12:52:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Which isn’t entirely confirmed pending a RfF I believe
[12:52:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Yes
[12:54:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> (God it’s gonna talent brain a while to stop seeing the gremlin face instead of car )
[12:55:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> Whaha
[12:55:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Yea….
[12:55:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to rodejong> Well..
[12:56:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Someone took until yesterday to notice Rhinos’s pfp is a car
[12:57:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Keep in mind the first time I talked to him was In like September if we go off the first time his account pinged mine
[12:57:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> I saw it immediately.
[12:58:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> [Bearerofthecurse](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1164188084754206731.webp?size=48&quality=lossless&name=Bearerofthecurse)
[12:58:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> But hey. I follow F1, so it was recognisable to me
[12:58:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Me saw https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/615786602454581249/1228808305996988426/image.png?ex=662d63ea&is=661aeeea&hm=708f1f04fcd49a9b8cded19e2592b5d202e99bdd7e3493598a56a3a5e81a63cd&
[12:58:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Face
[12:59:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> Mate: RhinosF1 already did it for me 😄
[13:00:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Im not familiar with F1 and by the time I had connect that to being a Formula one enjoyer my brain had set In the gremlin
[13:00:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Oh no
[13:00:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> [1/2] Oh no….
[13:00:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1229053754129649808/image0.jpg?ex=662e4881&is=661bd381&hm=042d38326e94440deb026795c855b4a22904a70a019ac538a3d18449f880c544&
[13:00:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Welp gotta run
[13:02:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Hey @rodejong
[13:02:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> @pixldev is even weirder in my head now
[13:02:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> And tax day is a stupid American concept
[13:03:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> :thistbh:
[13:03:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Im so happy I don’t have to deal with them yet
[13:03:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to rhinosf1> https://tenor.com/view/wobble-pensive-emoji-pensive-ish-wobblepensive-gif-26167268
[13:03:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Naaaah why
[13:03:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> The computer does my taxes for me
[13:03:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> (I am perfectly sane and normal)
[13:04:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Each company / bank I have submit data
[13:04:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Computer shows me it
[13:04:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> If it's all right, I just ignore it
[13:06:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Strongly considering moving to Europe for college
[13:07:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> I say do it
[13:07:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> You international lot keep our unis alive
[13:12:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> I hear the Germans have good sausages
[13:12:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> @suzuneu how do you use the gadget
[13:12:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [1/2] TaxDaddy (what we call the IRS in Denmark) does all the work. Collects all the data from the companies. (Companies provide all the data of their employees to the IRS, what they earn) Then the IRS put's it online, and all I have to do is check whether it is correct or not. We do have a tax day when they start putting out those documents. I just go online. Change what needs to be chan
[13:12:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [2/2] ged, and that's that (often)
[13:13:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> Denmark is a great country to live in
[13:15:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <suzuneu, replying to pixldev> I am in the process of setting it up. I'm a little confused now that I know the default gadget only accepts ES5 notation
[13:16:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to suzuneu> K
[13:16:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Lmk when it works I can test. Is there a sandbox page it works on?
[13:17:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <suzuneu, replying to pixldev> copy-paste [[MediaWiki:Gadget-RFXHelper.js]] and execute in browser console will be work
[13:17:56] <wm-bot>	 https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Gadget-RFXHelper.js
[13:17:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> <https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Gadget-RFXHelper.js>
[13:18:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> So the gadget menu don’t work?
[13:19:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <suzuneu> yes
[13:19:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <suzuneu> gadget extension is not allowing some of javascript feature
[13:19:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Wha
[13:19:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <suzuneu> im searching solution
[13:29:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <suzuneu> @pixldev maybe works now
[13:29:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> UD?
[13:29:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <suzuneu> yep
[13:29:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <suzuneu> currently only supports ud
[13:30:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Where should the button be
[13:30:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> There it is
[13:30:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <suzuneu> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1229061188340420638/image.png?ex=662e4f6e&is=661bda6e&hm=989b53915ecd566a7f51db33f172ef4e6efbdebb8d422fdf76cd6d971971264b&
[13:32:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to suzuneu> Hell Waki, this shit is awesomeB
[13:33:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <suzuneu> ty!
[13:33:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> I need to check out the code later
[13:36:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <suzuneu> cc: @rismika implemented
[13:42:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> If it’s only for SR maybe SRXHelper would be a better name
[13:44:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <suzuneu> at first I thought I might implement this outside of SR, but after thinking about it I don't think there is any place to implement this outside of SR
[13:44:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <suzuneu> renaming is a pain in the ass so I'll leave it as is
[13:44:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to rodejong> Ours is real time for employment income
[14:48:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <emicraftnoob, replying to pixldev> Grown man nightmare
[14:52:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <betaphi.> Hey, my Wiki is still not migrated from WikiTide after nearly a week and it is offline since then... Is there any estimate on when we can count on the Wiki being back again?
[15:33:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <emicraftnoob, replying to betaphi.> please make a post in #support
[15:34:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <betaphi.> I did several days ago but I received no official answer for days and I somehow doubt that things are moving forward...
[15:34:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nolongerontheball_88419> [1/8] It's been a couple weeks of having broken thumbnail images now.  I heard it's a known issue, but I don't see anything in the announcements, nor do I see many talking about it.  
[15:34:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nolongerontheball_88419> [2/8] I also heard it may take a while, but now, that it's affecting others besides myself, I am curious if there's a timeline on getting this issue resolved?
[15:34:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nolongerontheball_88419> [3/8] back in the day I thought it was a matter of rebooting a server, but since the merger I am not sure what is involved in getting this basic functionally operational.
[15:34:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nolongerontheball_88419> [4/8] please let us know what to expect on this matter, and thank you in advance for helping get this resolved - much love
[15:34:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nolongerontheball_88419> [5/8] @Site Reliability Engineers 
[15:34:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nolongerontheball_88419> [6/8] The issue is in showing resized images.  Full size images show fine.  but when there's a resize parameter used, such as |thumb or |35px, the image show a broken image box
[15:34:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nolongerontheball_88419> [7/8] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1229092468432179271/image.png?ex=662e6c8f&is=661bf78f&hm=953a9871540588f33c2571db97b320c71b32ddc44c24e6f9a3f46fd57876e7d6&
[15:34:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nolongerontheball_88419> [8/8] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1229092468658536580/image.png?ex=662e6c8f&is=661bf78f&hm=2ec510ffefeb58bb0b058d7e586d6a2c802165ccd9b39a74ea18a733b3c26590&
[15:35:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <betaphi.> It's a super small Wiki with just a couple of pages and I wouldn't think it should cause a lot of trouble migrating it...
[15:35:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to betaphi.> ping Agent in that thread
[15:36:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <betaphi., replying to theoneandonlylegroom> Did that but no reaction for days...
[15:36:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai, replying to nolongerontheball_88419> I have a feeling it's the jobrunner's fault
[15:36:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> and here's Agent
[15:36:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <betaphi., replying to theoneandonlylegroom> Perfect! 🙂 Hello @agentisai  🙂
[15:36:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> WikiTide migration ^
[15:37:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm, replying to agentisai> Did we ever figure out exactly what was wrong? My guess is that something went wrong when we migrated to Kafka or it might just be that Kafka overall isn't as good a service.
[15:37:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nolongerontheball_88419, replying to agentisai> thank you @agentisai , is there something I can do or expect in the timeline for this to be resolved?
[15:38:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to brandon.wm> I asked CA but he’s busy and said to ask him tmr. But yeah I would like to know what’s to appealing about Kafka :/
[15:39:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Community_portal#Taking_long_to_review live for the comments 😄
[15:39:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> what a....unique experience it is
[15:46:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <yvinciy> how can i know the status of a site? like if it's private or not
[15:46:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm, replying to yvinciy> What do you mean?
[15:46:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> Special:ManageWiki/core I suppose
[15:48:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.pizzetta.> We want to know if the owner of Wikicord has absolute power and if he can ban anyone for any reason.
[15:48:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sun_0459, replying to .pizzetta.> Non credo che ha assoluto potere.
[15:48:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sun_0459> Può essere bannato suppongo.
[15:50:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <yvinciy, replying to brandon.wm> yes I've found it
[15:50:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to .pizzetta.> Could you please describe the situation and link the wiki? If it’s a violation of our global conduct police’s we’ll look into it
[15:51:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.pizzetta.> wikicord.miraheze.org
[15:51:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.pizzetta.> Oops
[15:51:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.pizzetta.> https://wikicord.miraheze.org
[15:51:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> I'll take a look, thanks
[15:51:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> Also let's move this over to #cvt if that's alright
[15:51:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.pizzetta.> Ok
[15:57:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <li.ao> #RequestSSL Ticket on Hold Guys please check, thanks
[16:06:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sun_0459> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1229100579008151663/CB8B3860-B5BE-4C4C-8CD6-AE47A78A6CF4.jpg?ex=662e741d&is=661bff1d&hm=38119415348a9c658509d1d16845cc31f710be7df16e2b094ec8c785f5306b6c&
[16:07:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sun_0459> Screenshot of the block.
[16:08:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <yvinciy, replying to sun_0459> non qua
[16:12:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <platyellow> Just a quick question on copyright, if I have an image I was looking to use for a person, but its not Some rights reserved/Public domain, if I were to upload a portion of it, but in a lower resolution just for the one page, copyright wise would that be ok to use?
[16:14:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tali64, replying to platyellow> That would most likely fall under fair use and would be allowed
[16:15:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <platyellow, replying to tali64> Ah ok, thats awesome. I'm trying to incorporate more images so thats a good step.
[16:15:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to platyellow> Depends -
[16:15:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> How big is the portion
[16:16:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> What is the focus
[16:16:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> Is the focus protected
[16:16:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <li.ao> Like if you just cover portions of it making them identifiable so people know what the original picture is, that's ok
[16:16:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to li.ao> That's not true
[16:18:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [1/3] Fair use is a legal doctrine that allows for the limited use of copyrighted material without permission from the copyright owner for purposes such as criticism, commentary, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research. However, fair use is subject to limitations, including considerations of the purpose and character of the use, the nature of the copyrighted work, the amount an
[16:18:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [2/3] d substantiality of the portion used, and the effect of the use on the potential market for the original work.
[16:18:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [3/3] Copyright law establishes the legal framework for creators to protect their original works from unauthorized use or reproduction, thereby restricting the scope of fair use.
[16:24:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <platyellow> [1/2] Well I would link back to the original work, but as an example there's a picture I've just used for a player that I am able to modify and use the original is 1842x2763. The portion I used is 761x953, with no downscaling as I am not required to.
[16:24:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <platyellow> [2/2] So it would be something similar, with a link back to the original, but that 761x953 would likely be downscaled to 25% of the original portion to 191x239 with downscaled quality, so the image size would go from 524kb to 16.9kb, and wouldn't infringe on the original work and wouldn't be intended for large scale use on the Wiki. So would be on one page instead of say 200.
[16:25:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <platyellow> Because the intent is not to distribute the image widely and to use a portion at a lower quality, I hoped it would qualify under fair use.
[16:29:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <globe_x, replying to brandon.wm> You put that much kinder than I could've
[16:32:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to platyellow> [1/4] Downsizing in size has no baring. Especially when it's put on the wiki under the normal License. Our regular license (CC-BY-SA) does allow for commercial use.
[16:32:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to platyellow> [2/4] Were you to upload that smaller version, I could use it to order 10.000 chopsticks and sell it in a Chinese restaurant. That would clash with the copyright of the owner.
[16:32:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to platyellow> [3/4] Besides, Fair use is only allowed within the USA, as each country has it's own laws.
[16:32:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to platyellow> [4/4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
[16:34:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> Besides, CC-BY-SA is therefore also the reason why Fair Use is forbidden on Commons.wikimedia.org
[16:34:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Fair_use
[16:35:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <platyellow> [1/3] Thank you for your time in answering me, I will have a look through and see.
[16:35:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <platyellow> [2/3] I am aware that some images on Wikipedia are subject to Non-free Criteria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content_criteria
[16:35:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <platyellow> [3/3] But it sounds like I'll need to have a proper read before any move forward.
[16:36:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> If Copyright were so simple 🙂
[16:36:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> Good luck
[16:36:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <platyellow> Thanks
[16:37:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <li.ao> Niceee
[16:37:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <li.ao> And may I know who to contact for RequestSSL issues?
[16:38:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to li.ao> [1/3] That is the 3rd time you asked this. 
[16:38:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to li.ao> [2/3] You have a thread open.
[16:38:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to li.ao> [3/3] Be patient please
[16:38:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> You don’t unless it’s actually an issue. Have. Patience.
[16:38:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <li.ao> Ohh okay
[16:39:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <li.ao> Yes this isn't an issue ever existed on my wiki
[16:40:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to li.ao> Perhaps you are used to getting immediate service. But we are volunteers. We do not have a 24/7 ability to standby.
[16:40:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <li.ao> I was just asking, and for sure this is not guaranteed by contract. I just wanted to know who to contact so I may write an email on Meta.
[16:41:15] <RhinosF1>	 You don't need to write an email
[16:41:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> You just need to be patient!
[16:41:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <li.ao> Ahh okay
[16:43:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> Patience is a virtue.
[16:43:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> Let’s pin that b
[16:45:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> An undervalued one.
[16:57:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bluemoon0332> [1/2] hey @suzuneu, how do you feel about moving your newest gadget's source code to the Miraheze GitHub org? You'll retain full admin access to your repo, of course.
[16:57:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bluemoon0332> [2/2] I think it would be a good idea, since we have CI there too, so we can automate building and even publishing releases on-wiki. What do you think?
[16:58:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> 👀
[17:00:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <globe_x, replying to pixldev> new username is much more accurate
[17:00:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <emicraftnoob, replying to brandon.wm> brandon is a phylosofic
[17:02:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to globe_x> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1229114636549361745/image.gif?ex=662e8135&is=661c0c35&hm=810ddc01d526203b3d1e04aa413ed377e6bb960a8b9e946558002bf5d8cff077&
[17:35:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.pizzetta.> How do you create a user page in login.miraheze or meta?
[17:35:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.pizzetta.> It asks me the confirmation code
[17:37:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.pizzetta.> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1229123252140380240/IMG_20240414_193631.jpg?ex=662e893b&is=661c143b&hm=e757d7c7f789e050a27e0536fbed34a498d616a35a176acd91cc46c81003a07c&
[17:44:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm, replying to .pizzetta.> Will grant confirmed
[17:44:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> It seems captcha has been acting up more lately?
[17:44:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> Actually for loginwiki, I can’t, but for Meta I can if wanted @.pizzetta.
[17:45:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.pizzetta.> I use a VPN so maybe I have to turn it off
[17:46:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.pizzetta., replying to .pizzetta.> No, still asks me the code
[17:48:08] <MacFan4000>	 It's mobilefrontend
[17:48:20] <MacFan4000>	 I'd try using the desktop site
[17:49:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.pizzetta., replying to MacFan4000> Oh thanks! It asked me to solve the captcha
[18:13:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> Hrm, anyone else seeing a wave of 503s, or just me?
[18:14:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm, replying to notaracham> I have had a few for the past few minutes
[18:14:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> Once I reload it’s gone though
[18:20:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> Seems to have eased off, yes
[18:29:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> DDoS?
[19:07:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> The Wiki Creator is so sloow I could enter 5 messages between approve and create 😛
[19:08:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> _didn't though_
[19:30:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gummiel> Or maybe you are just too fast
[19:31:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <djual_fallen> where to request interwiki now?
[19:32:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tali64, replying to djual_fallen> You can edit the interwiki table of your wiki yourself (assuming you have bureaucrat status) at `Special:Interwiki`
[19:33:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <djual_fallen> and if the bureaucrat is inactive, is there any other possibility?
[19:37:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tali64, replying to djual_fallen> I suppose a request at [Steward requests/Miscellaneous](https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Steward_requests/Miscellaneous) would work; alternatively, you can start a local election to gain bureaucrat rights on the wiki
[19:42:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> I have no idea how to vote for as the leaders of Miraheze
[19:47:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tali64, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:SecurePoll/vote/36
[19:48:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> "Sorry, you are not in the predetermined list of users authorised to vote in this election."
[19:57:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Do you meet the criteria
[19:57:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> Does your account have 10 edits and exit before Feb 11th?
[19:58:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls, replying to pixldev> IDK how many edits, but it probly existed before Feb 11
[19:59:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> _hisses, well I was bloocked for no reason from those wikis_
[19:59:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Is the block thing still a critera…?
[19:59:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> Unfair as those was "no reason blocks"
[20:00:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> No
[20:01:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> I'm am fairly close to an RfC to declare the election null and void
[20:01:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> On procedural grounds
[20:01:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> Tbh this election has been a big mess
[20:02:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to rhinosf1> The whole thing?
[20:02:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> It’s our first
[20:02:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cosmicalpha, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> It's the first board election we've ever held, it was never going to go perfect. But yeah it does seem like there was a bit of a mess with it...
[20:03:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> I understand there is issules to iron out
[20:03:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to cosmicalpha> To call it a mess is ridiculous
[20:03:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> The candidate lists were created with incorrect criteria
[20:03:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cosmicalpha> I have been busy IRL so I don't know everything that went on as I've mostly away the past few days.
[20:03:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> And it's been more than enough time for formal acknowledgement
[20:04:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> I  am a little upset that I cannot vote
[20:04:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> I don’t think invalidating the entire election is a great idea. We’re doing our best to show everyone Miraheze is doing great. Scrapping our first election doesn’t seem like a great look
[20:04:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Agent has already stated that the voter list is incorrect
[20:04:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to pixldev> I mean everyone needs a fair chance to vote
[20:04:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cosmicalpha> @serverlessharej
[20:05:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> That I agree with
[20:05:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai, replying to rhinosf1> is?
[20:05:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> I'm happy for the board & SRE to fix the issues and properly reissue an announcement
[20:05:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <serverlessharej> I can update the vote roll if you tell me how to do it
[20:05:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai, replying to serverlessharej> You can't, it must be done through the shell
[20:05:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> I feel that being unable to vote due to being blocked for no reason on wikis I only vistted is a pain
[20:05:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> But at the most extreme the RfC should be to switch the election to wikitext.
[20:05:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <serverlessharej> Then do it
[20:05:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> But given the voter roll was created with criteria we've established is wrong
[20:05:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> @theburningfirethatscorchessouls what error do you get?
[20:05:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to agentisai> I was about to ask if Hare had shell
[20:06:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai, replying to rhinosf1> That was fixed like two days ago
[20:06:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to agentisai> Why wasn't it communicated
[20:06:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> .
[20:06:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> I found out by chance
[20:06:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <serverlessharej> Voting is going on until May 9, which is longer than policy requires
[20:06:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Despite the election went at least half a day, no one has communicated that the initial issues were fixed
[20:07:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <serverlessharej> Half a day is not much time
[20:07:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> It was fixed like an hour after you alerted me
[20:07:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> I communicated this to ElectCom
[20:07:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to agentisai> Did anyone state this?
[20:07:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Anywhere useful
[20:07:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> I haven't backread
[20:08:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Cause no one from ElectCom has told me nor has there been any effort to communicate them
[20:08:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> I would of prefered the vote to be wiki text, but Saboteurs could be problem
[20:08:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm, replying to rhinosf1> Which one?
[20:08:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Can someone check why @theburningfirethatscorchessouls can't vote
[20:08:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cosmicalpha> [1/2] I'm still trying to get caught up on the whole ordeal, but from my perspective and what I have noticed this doesn't seem to have gone all that well, but it also doesn't seem 100% horid either, consider it is our first boarf election, ever.... Both communication and technical issues seem to be present, to an extent, but things take time to figure out and perfect. But yes, it could
[20:08:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cosmicalpha> [2/2]  have gone better.
[20:08:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <serverlessharej> Please understand we do this as volunteers and have other things grabbing our attention as well. This is our first election with SecurePoll. We are happy to fix issues that come up.
[20:09:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to serverlessharej> Communication is key
[20:09:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm, replying to rhinosf1> In all fairness all of us have heard nothing from ElectCom, and something should be said at minimum.
[20:09:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to brandon.wm> Yes I know
[20:09:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm, replying to serverlessharej> Then perhaps an RfC to do away with SecurePoll - it has potential but right now it seems like more of an issue than a benefit
[20:09:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> It's a good learning experience I guess
[20:09:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> and we still have almost a month of time left
[20:10:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> There's definitely lessons to learn
[20:10:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> SecurePoll is very WMF-specific and not very user friendly
[20:10:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> which is unfortunate because it's a nice extension
[20:10:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <serverlessharej> I would prefer we not change the election rules in the middle
[20:10:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm, replying to agentisai> I mean, maybe we just do this election on a subpage? And we use the next 12 months to determine whether SecurePoll is viable for the future
[20:11:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> We should’ve ideally had more time to test before deploying SecurePoll, it’s no one’s fault just how it ended up
[20:11:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> The voter list issue doesn't seem to be widespread
[20:11:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <serverlessharej> Be advised if you do an RFC to change the rules, the election will stop immediately, delaying it
[20:11:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> I think what should be done is to check why the voter list isn't working this time around and once figured out, we send mass emails to all eligible voters
[20:11:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to agentisai> Can someone check @theburningfirethatscorchessouls asap please
[20:11:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to agentisai> That would be good
[20:11:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls, replying to rhinosf1> I guess it would be due to the 4 blocks
[20:11:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> And not to be rude but with haste
[20:12:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> Not part of the criteria
[20:12:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> So it shouldn't be
[20:12:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> If it is salvageable now it should be kept but the process should be scrutinized thereafter
[20:12:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> That shouldn't be an issue unless it was configured that way accidentally
[20:12:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> @serverlessharej can you check?
[20:12:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> I get people are busy but this should be done properly and fairly
[20:12:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Not an embarrassment to democracy
[20:13:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> I'd describe this as a shambolic mess not a democratic election
[20:13:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gummiel, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> only global blocks should disqualify, not local one like that (pretty sure I have 1 or 2 similar local non-sense blocks, and was able to vote fine)
[20:13:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls, replying to gummiel> Strange though
[20:13:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm, replying to serverlessharej> Can this be salvaged? That’s the question now.
[20:13:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to brandon.wm> I hope so
[20:14:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <serverlessharej, replying to brandon.wm> As I understand this is a rather minor, and solvable, problem
[20:14:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> And I'm probably the loudest critic here
[20:14:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> Board terms expire end of July as far as I remember
[20:14:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> We have time
[20:14:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> If needed, end it and redo the election
[20:14:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> There isn’t a rush
[20:14:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> The board can extend their own terms
[20:14:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> And stay in non community positions
[20:14:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> Yeah - there isn’t urgency to this
[20:14:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> If it came to that
[20:15:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> Take your time, do it right
[20:15:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> I'd rather we fix this in election if we can
[20:15:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> But I do expect the highest transparency
[20:16:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm, replying to rhinosf1> I would request a statement from ElectCom immediately
[20:16:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> If there is any hint that the election isn't being conducted fairly, it should be swiftly corrected and proper notice given
[20:16:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Otherwise, I will consider an open letter to the board or RfC or community action
[20:18:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <serverlessharej> [1/2] @agentisai has been doing this all by himself as he's the only one with both the time and technical capability to put it all together. As bugs have come up, he's been the one to take care of them. Perhaps he could be better in communicating this work, but he has been doing the best he's can. Please cut him some slack. @rhinosf1, threatening to throw out the election, while it
[20:18:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <serverlessharej> [2/2]  may technically be your right, only adds to the stress we are under while also running an election. We are happy to extend voting, and to send out an announcement once we feel the problem has solved, but there are only so many of us working to keep Miraheze up, and we are doing the best we can. Thank you.
[20:18:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> The fact we only have @agentisai setting it up is part of the issue
[20:18:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> It's a bus factor
[20:18:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> And one that isn't helping us
[20:19:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> Many hands make light work.
[20:19:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <serverlessharej> That is fundamental to Miraheze, unfortunately. We are working on ways to bring more volunteers into more roles but it's not something that happens overnight.
[20:19:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> I hate to bring this up in a time like this, but it’s been noted that shell access can be used to manipulate votes, and while Agent and Reception would never as they’re incredibly trustworthy, they do hold shell access as candidates.
[20:19:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm, replying to serverlessharej> A conversation that was actually had internally this morning. We should absolutely look to explore.
[20:19:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <serverlessharej> The election is encrypted using a key that is held by someone completely external to Miraheze. We have done what we can to make secure poll actually secure.
[20:20:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Yes I'm happy that was done
[20:20:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cosmicalpha, replying to rhinosf1> [1/7] Communication is key is a fundamental issue that has happened for years, and is something we absolutely need to improve upon, but I don't think communication is worse here then in the past, in fact I think it's betImo. Maybe not regarding some of the technical challenges, but overall. Change won't happen overnight and you can't necessarily blame that on anyo
[20:20:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cosmicalpha, replying to rhinosf1> [2/7] ne in particular, but a fundamental flaw we do need to improve upon in some way. I'd  personally love to hear feedback on what exactly lacks in communication to take into account for future events. We do the best we can, and I'm sorry if its not enough, just provide constructive feedback, rather than criticize on things, and we can work on improving things, 
[20:20:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cosmicalpha, replying to rhinosf1> [3/7] but like I said change takes time and this won't happen overnight. I'm sorry if your unhappy on how things are handled and I hope we can improve on things in the future but this doesn't necessarily help things. We know communication was lacking but you also can't expect us to always communicate every little thing that happens immediately. I don't like playin
[20:20:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cosmicalpha, replying to rhinosf1> [4/7] g the "we are volunteers" card but it is the truth of things, time may permit a quick fix but volunteers may not have an actual opportunity in their time to communicate it and then stay to answer questions, etc... in the end actually broadcasting that takes much more time then the actual fix, and that is at least one of the reasons things aren't always commu
[20:20:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cosmicalpha, replying to rhinosf1> [5/7] nicated properly, immediately. I do hope we can improve the flow of communication, but the truth is it is difficult due to just what time permits. I understand it's frustrating, but this does go to all, please just try to understand we are trying our best and maybe we don't always do things perfect but we do try, we are trying to give the community more voic
[20:20:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cosmicalpha, replying to rhinosf1> [6/7] e with these elections, and I personally don't necessarily like how no matter what is done it seems like things are done wrong. I mean I understand the point of view, but just try to understand why things are also the way they are.
[20:20:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <cosmicalpha, replying to rhinosf1> [7/7] Now, I guess I'm done with this speech, sorry for the long message on this.
[20:21:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> @agentisai I do apologise if anything sounds personally aimed at you
[20:21:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> It's not
[20:21:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> We do have a fair few mediawiki engineers though
[20:21:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> They could have been shown stuff so they can fix candidate lists
[20:22:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm, replying to cosmicalpha> If desired for the present as is, I’d recommend someone be assigned to provide updates on the election and SecurePoll. Doesn’t have to be lengthy, but there should be someone around to give updates as they happen. Whatever that looks like, whoever that is, just something.
[20:22:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Communication could have been better
[20:22:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> This isn’t going to be perfect but we might as well try some things and see what sticks for future years.
[20:22:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> I personally think we're rushing into stuff
[20:22:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <serverlessharej> Progress isn't linear. We had a good run of things improving, but part of the challenge of self-improvement is you run into roadbumps. This is one of them. I am eager for us to learn from this experience.
[20:23:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> Asking all involved here: what are next steps?
[20:23:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <serverlessharej> @agentisai Do we know what the issues were with the vote list that caused people to be missing?
[20:23:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> The pressing issue I see is the voter list, am I correct?
[20:23:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> That is the case, yes
[20:24:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Ideally an update in #announcements, a tweet & sitenotice acknowledging any voter list issue
[20:24:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> If so the logical step is to calmly find and fix the issue, and communicate to the community once that’s done.
[20:24:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> And probably update the i18n to have an email if you think you can vote
[20:24:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> But blocked
[20:24:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai, replying to serverlessharej> Initially, the issue two days ago was because the populateEditCount script looked for 60 edits instead of 10 edits because the requirements for candidate and elector were confused
[20:25:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> The issue with the latest user to report something is unknown. Every eligible user should be able to vote
[20:25:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> and so far, no one has reported an issue apart from them so we know the issue at least isn't affecting a lot of people
[20:26:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> We have a fairly small group get involved in these things
[20:26:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Is the list hard coded? As in if someone is unblocked or meet’s the edit requirement after the script is run will it let them vote?
[20:26:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> No reports doesn't mean not widespread
[20:26:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Yeah. Many people may have just given up.
[20:26:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai, replying to pixldev> The only thing the list has is the edit count
[20:27:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> Well, judging from the amount of people who have voted, a good portion of people can indeed vote
[20:28:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> Still, strange that not all people with the edit count can vote
[20:28:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to agentisai> Not all though
[20:28:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> Rerun the script and reset the votes
[20:29:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> We don't need to reset votes
[20:29:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Just update the list
[20:29:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> That’s fine as well
[20:29:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> I don't think there's any indication anyone whose not eligible can vote
[20:29:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> I'm seeing people with 30 edits being able to vote
[20:29:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> And scrutineers can check that
[20:29:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> so not sure what the issue is
[20:30:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> But also, can someone help @agentisai? They’re doing it all themselves which is absolutely incredible but they should have help.
[20:30:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> @MediaWiki Engineers
[20:30:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> also @serverlessharej who currently serves on electcom
[20:31:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> i’d like to be able to create a role with Discord admin approval to allow for easy pinging - they should be reachable for concerns at all times with a ping
[20:31:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> Not everyone knows how SecurePoll works
[20:31:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> It's not very straightforward
[20:31:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> They can help you debug if they want you too
[20:31:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <serverlessharej> Idea for announcement: (1) we fixed issues and more people should be able to vote (2) if someone should be able to vote but can’t they can email ts@wikitide.org for urgent help
[20:31:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> I'll try to rerun populateEditCount later to see if anything is fixed somehow
[20:32:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to serverlessharej> +1 when we've fixed @theburningfirethatscorchessouls's issue
[20:32:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm, replying to serverlessharej> TS but I’d also prefer they just be able to ask here
[20:32:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Cause until then we don't know if more issues exist
[20:32:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> Both options aren’t bad
[20:32:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> I'm fine with email
[20:32:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> As long as it's monitored
[20:32:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> Edit count was annoying to implement
[20:32:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> And we can ensure everyone has ample time to vote
[20:34:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm, replying to serverlessharej> I’ll have the announcement prepared so whoever is responsible can send out when it’s done
[20:36:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <serverlessharej> I wonder if we could also have an option for people already on Discord to notify us directly. @Election ?
[20:36:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm, replying to serverlessharej> That was my question above
[20:36:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> Who serves on the committee?
[20:37:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <serverlessharej> In theory it’s the two non-candidate stewards (Kiju and Void) but in practice it’s me
[20:37:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to serverlessharej> Election Committee probably as the whole name
[20:37:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm, replying to serverlessharej> So it’ll be the three of you :p
[20:37:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to serverlessharej> oof. Thank you for doing this Hare. And of course thanks to Agent for working his ass off on this.
[20:37:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> I’d suggest @rhinosf1 and @bluemoon0332 join if interested
[20:38:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm, replying to serverlessharej> To be totally independent I’d even suggest there’s an elections@wikitide.org type email for concerns
[20:39:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> then a role here
[20:39:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> and you 3 should have electionadmin on wiki
[20:39:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> James does I believe
[20:40:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Being Stewards so do Kiju and Void but they may have been granted the role as well
[20:46:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to brandon.wm> Huh?
[20:47:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm, replying to rhinosf1> electcom
[20:48:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Has anyone actually said it's taking people on?
[20:50:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bluemoon0332> hmmmm
[20:51:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bluemoon0332> not much to say for now but I wanted to say I did read this convo
[20:51:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <globe_x, replying to rhinosf1> Its not
[20:51:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <globe_x> It is just void, 1008, and Harj afaik
[20:52:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> That answers that question for @brandon.wm then
[20:52:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> I believe ElectCom is Stewards + whoeger else is needed
[20:52:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> So it’s Kiju/Void/Harej discretion
[20:52:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <globe_x> [1/7] The Elections Committee is composed of Stewards who are not running or voting in the election. Stewards overseeing the election shall be impartial and not work toward the election or defeat of a candidate. In the event of a Steward standing for election, they are not considered part of the Elections Committee for the purposes of this section.
[20:52:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <globe_x> [2/7] They are tasked with the following responsibilities:
[20:52:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <globe_x> [3/7] Managing communication with the WikiTide Foundation to ensure that an election can be called appropriately and in a timely fashion;
[20:52:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <globe_x> [4/7] Verifying the eligibility of candidates;
[20:53:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <globe_x> [5/7] Ensuring the election is carried out in a fair and lawful manner; and
[20:53:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <globe_x> [6/7] Preparing a report of election results to the Secretary.
[20:53:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <globe_x> [7/7] In the event that Stewards fail to form an Elections Committee, the Director of Trust and Safety will form an Elections Committee and will assume these responsibilities.
[20:53:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <globe_x> 🙂
[20:53:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bluemoon0332> TL;DR In theory it is supposed to be Stewards only unless for some reason they can't, in which case T&S takes over
[20:55:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bluemoon0332, replying to brandon.wm> well ensuring everyone who has the right to vote can vote is our number 1 priority
[20:57:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm, replying to bluemoon0332> In practicality I’ve been told that it’s really whoever is deemed useful
[20:57:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> Because Stewards are able to yet Harej
[20:58:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bluemoon0332> In practice stuff will always be done by the one who shows up to do it
[21:03:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> show up then 😅 hell, I’ll do the announcements for the election if @serverlessharej wants
[21:05:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> I do have work tomorrow so I'll be disappearing for the night
[21:08:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bluemoon0332> [1/2] I've said this before, but personally I'd rather not touch the election since I've never been told I can, though there's technically nothing stopping me from doing so (poll is encrypted tho, so I can't touch any votes without there being evidence that I've done that, no worried there).
[21:08:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bluemoon0332> [2/2] This is also an election for who gets to be a director at the WikiTide Foundation, not a regular bug report where I can play around with the database and maint scripts and just rollback if it goes wrong.
[21:09:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <serverlessharej> @bluemoon0332 since you’re SRE and not a candidate I think it would be great if you could help with SecurePoll
[21:09:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <brandon.wm> @serverlessharej see DMs for a quick sec
[21:21:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> Hm, I have no idea why people's votes are not working
[21:26:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <z_ezinho> [1/2] Is anyone else unable to ``/auth`` or..?
[21:26:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <z_ezinho> [2/2] I click the link and it says it was sucessful but then @WikiAuthBot doesn't DM be back
[21:27:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bluemoon0332> try the other bot
[21:27:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tali64, replying to z_ezinho> You can use #verify instead to verify
[21:27:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bluemoon0332> @Wiki-Bot
[21:27:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <z_ezinho> works!
[21:27:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <z_ezinho> thanks
[21:46:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <suzuneu, replying to bluemoon0332> Interesting
[21:47:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bluemoon0332> good to know you're open to contemplating that idea
[21:47:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bluemoon0332> You can DM me with any additional questions if you'd like
[21:48:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> I'd like to see waki deeper in technical tbh, seems to be a reasonable fellow
[21:49:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bluemoon0332> there can be no additional questions if no question has been asked yet, oops
[21:57:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to raidarr> I can concure
[21:58:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Should they agree of course
[22:01:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <suzuneu> I'll work on it when I get to school
[22:35:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <radicalhumanoid> [1/2] man who couldve guess that importing CSS from wiki.gg wouldnt work lmao
[22:35:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <radicalhumanoid> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1229198249483702492/6NEVyZZ.png?ex=662ecf14&is=661c5a14&hm=681a695ebecce80ba2b68f9fd75032433f224e83a4d0e77734ec8cc12d950a25&
[22:35:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tali64, replying to radicalhumanoid> We have volunteers who can help you fix it
[22:36:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <radicalhumanoid, replying to tali64> where do i ask?
[22:36:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> @CSS/JS Support Volunteers
[22:37:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tali64, replying to radicalhumanoid> Here is fine; #support is also acceptable if fixing your CSS turns out to be complicated
[22:37:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <radicalhumanoid> alr
[22:44:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <radicalhumanoid, replying to radicalhumanoid> [1/2] Switching images for the background and other stuff fixed that, i believe the only thing i need to do is lift this bar up
[22:44:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <radicalhumanoid, replying to radicalhumanoid> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1229200674777202720/v2IPdoT.png?ex=662ed156&is=661c5c56&hm=16d1a904a9a7facf3c8a481ef62ddc7b6b5e4055e319e9b3b2c80e226c6427c8&
[23:49:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <suzuneu, replying to .pizzetta.> maybe same problem #Bug - hCaptcha module not showing in mobile
[23:49:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <suzuneu> I think this is MediaWiki Extension issue (MobileFrontend or ConfirmEdit or MinervaNeue?)