[00:27:05] [1/5] to stewards, these do not appear to be in compliance with wiki creation or content policy [00:27:05] [2/5] https://bootyfarm.miraheze.org/wiki/Booty_Farm_Wiki [00:27:06] [3/5] https://fapceo.miraheze.org/wiki/Fap_CEO_Wiki [00:27:06] [4/5] - no content warning [00:27:06] [5/5] - obviously promoting NSFW [00:41:50] Both also have NSFW sitenames/subdomains (the second wiki more so), which is also a Content Policy violation [00:42:53] ironically that's wikis listed to have been edited by Space0720 from your centralauth link in cvt [00:44:39] ||https://static.miraheze.org/bootyfarmwiki/1/1f/Background.jpg|| is the background image on first mentioned wiki [00:45:29] Looking deeper, it appears that the administrators of both wikis are inactive (the first one for at least 4 years, the second one ranging from 1-3 years) and will most likely not respond to a Content Policy reminder [00:46:33] even for the first, removing wouldn't get back in compliance [01:16:09] latter wiki does appear to have 1 active user Oxks [01:17:35] for the first wiki, recentchanges is indicating that IPs can edit in module namespace. expand it to 30 days and 500 edits [01:18:11] that sounds like a bad thing [01:18:12] probably not good for security [01:18:15] yeah [01:46:36] [1/2] Porting templates over from Wikipedia. Trying to fix errors with stuff not being the right pagetype but it won’t let me change some files to Sanitized CSS. I don’t know anything about CSS so it’s just confusing me more then anything on how to fix it. Could anybody assist? [01:46:36] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1234682284746084372/image.png?ex=66319efb&is=66304d7b&hm=648ebb71594ab88dd56bca9914cd4930b07979b52a540853d13265b2942369e9& [01:48:22] I had some weird similar issue earlier today (though self-created css pages), but somehow first changing it to "regular" CSS and then to "Sanitized CSS" seemed to work. Not sure why but it what ended up happening for me [01:48:44] I’ve tried the before I believe, but I’ll try it again for good measure. [01:49:27] Still coming up with the invalid media query [01:49:53] (there isn’t even media in the documentation files usually? i’m just straight up baffled) [01:50:32] oh it’s referring to media media [01:50:48] 🙄 how do i miss that [01:57:33] It seems to be specifically the Documentation style css and nothing else so [01:57:53] i don’t know if said code doesn’t compute with this wiki or what [02:05:15] you will have to dig and find every single dependency to import [02:05:25] and check for lua modules [02:07:18] this is why we discourage importing straight from wikipedia 👍 [02:07:51] they often have tons of dependencies that most people will just blindly import without knowing what they do [02:12:46] aughhhhh [02:22:10] i hate to be strident, but I've had an open ticket on Phabricator for over two weeks and nobody has posted in it but me [02:22:10] https://issue-tracker.miraheze.org/T12046 [02:22:30] is there somewhere I can escalate this? huge parts of the wiki are simply inaccessible, and I can't do anything about it [02:23:00] i tried making a Support thread here on the discord, and the people in that said I should take it to Phab, and then nobody posted in the Phab thread [02:24:56] looking in the phab ticket, nobody was ever assigned to it [02:25:10] ....or it did, but then that somebody lost their permissions? [02:30:31] Hi, apologies. Potentially @evalprime is available to assist? If online. [02:30:41] thread is open [02:35:03] I'm online but m3w has it [02:36:54] i'm helping where I can, likely requires backend access [03:36:02] i forgot to ask you for the stewards icon [04:48:07] [1/2] how do i edit the stuff at the very bottom of the pages [04:48:08] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1234727966798385183/image.png?ex=6631c987&is=66307807&hm=df3df1e39460b03043c183f3f0b6abc3d470626cbb95501cbb3f72726a6d8096& [04:50:24] Add ?uselang=qqx to the end of the URL and you will see the names of the system messages that are shown in the footer [04:50:33] Then go to MediaWiki: [04:51:14] [1/3] These are the specific mesages [04:51:14] [2/3] So if you want to change the "last modified at", you'd go to MediaWiki:lastmodifiedat because that's the system message you see there [04:51:15] [3/3] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1234728749497450496/image.png?ex=6631ca42&is=663078c2&hm=19a28abdd4b3b0b67dab8e8cbf9cf2de0239fde068af64fc3033817531ae3dfa& [04:54:39] [1/8] You can also hide specific elements from the footer: [04:54:39] [2/8] ```css [04:54:40] [3/8] #footer-places-about, [04:54:40] [4/8] #footer-places-donate, [04:54:40] [5/8] #footer-places-disclaimers { [04:54:40] [6/8] display: none !important; [04:54:41] [7/8] } [04:54:41] [8/8] ``` [04:57:03] [1/2] Ok so there's like, white (or black in dark mode) parts of the cosmos skin. How do I make them not white? I have not set anything to white in the additional settings so IDK what to even change, the links are yellow to match with the rest of the skin but are hard to see on the white. [04:57:03] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1234730213838164078/image.png?ex=6631cb9f&is=66307a1f&hm=117208daac79e4121504bff45e9e551473eedf4850254dcfebba3a1b0c4e93dd& [05:05:12] OH MY GOD THE COSMOS SKIN ISNT APPLYING TO THE OTHER PAGES YET I AM IN HELL [05:07:22] caching issue [05:08:23] CSS [05:08:32] Can you send me a link to your wiki? [05:09:12] https://herotvdatabase.miraheze.org/wiki/Tiger_%26_Bunny_Wiki [05:09:14] Alr [05:09:44] What color would you like as the background color and what color would you like as the text color? [05:13:19] As in the white part? I think just changing it to a maroon would work. Nothing else would need adjusting [05:23:19] Am I able to upload audio files to my wiki by any chance? [05:26:36] you can allow audio files to be uploaded in [[Special:ManageWiki/settings#mw-section-media]] [05:26:36] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:ManageWiki/settings#mw-section-media [05:26:37] [05:26:49] the `$wgFileExtensions` setting [05:33:26] Hello it's me again. For some reasons I need to export a full data dump for my wiki is there a way to do it? [05:36:02] But not on an actual page? [05:43:36] Special:DataDump [05:43:46] Thanks [05:45:23] Thank you, I've just submitted the request. [07:10:33] [1/2] Is these actions violates the miraheze rules? [07:10:33] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1234763809315487765/image0.png?ex=6631eae8&is=66309968&hm=9637115908d36e1c7f187992de8f148014d69f65e72249790e4937ac65511957& [07:14:31] @holocraft take it up with local admins [07:14:54] Threatening to call stewards and wittering about Miraheze laws ain't helping anyone [07:15:11] And that is old too [07:15:50] [1/3] He gotta still hates me overall [07:15:50] [2/3] ---Enough--- [07:15:50] [3/3] We can't continue that here [07:27:42] [1/2] What is "Permissions - managewiki-restricted"? I wanna enable Extension "CirrusSearch" [07:27:42] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1234768125229137980/image.png?ex=6631eeed&is=66309d6d&hm=d2bc93938d6943f231256f350a975c2310180c17a944d93013750cbba0662f7d& [07:55:51] it's a performnce heavy extensions so you should request stewards to enable it for you, under conditions [07:56:36] I see [07:57:10] https://discord.com/channels/407504499280707585/407504500136607745/1203229472510320721 [07:58:24] if your wiki is elegible proceed to [[Steward requests/Restricted changes]] [07:58:24] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Steward_requests/Restricted_changes [07:58:24] [08:00:02] understood, ty [08:15:00] Question, what would you like to see in a potential CSS guide? 👀 Especially for people who are new to CSS or even wiki editing [08:17:53] what are the most frequent question we get on css? [08:21:30] "How do I change the color of X" [08:22:04] We really need an introduction to inspector so planning to add that in some manner [08:25:32] [1/3] I would suggest links to Wikibooks learning guide. There are detailed explanations how CSS works and how to apply it. https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cascading_Style_Sheets [08:25:32] [2/3] https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Using_Wikibooks [08:25:32] [3/3] Or we should make our own version of it. [08:26:03] I would rather link to Miraheze then Wikibooks. [08:27:33] Thanks, always good to have more guides to base off [08:29:09] Detailed resources are available online, I think what we need is something to go in between people who never opened the inspector and those [08:29:36] But if you have any concrete things that would need to be in a guide please tell, that's why I'm asking [08:40:01] I will take a look later. Perhaps adding it in the separate CSS/JS thread? [08:46:24] If you have ideas you can ping me in the thread with them yeah [08:47:27] Hello. I am a user who makes edits to Miraheze wikis every once in a while. I am in the process of moving a Fandom wiki to an already-existing Miraheze wiki of the same topic. In what channel can I get assistance from stewards? [08:48:32] #support [08:48:38] or #cvt [08:48:42] depends on the issue [09:12:58] Is that possible to embed custom JS codes for a specific page, while keeping another pages as-is? [09:14:25] template styles [09:14:37] Thanks let me see [09:27:41] Just checking, but what's the holdup on this task? https://issue-tracker.miraheze.org/T12049 Wondering whether "UO" is just very busy or possibly unaware of it. [09:28:27] It should be the final thing needed before we can actually replace our current wiki with the Miraheze one. [09:37:51] They are really swamped at the moment. [09:38:52] There are a lot of requests, and updates of the software and a few bugs that needs seeing to. It's not forgotten, just still in the queue. [09:45:35] @Site Reliability Engineers Curtesy ping for the above [10:04:20] Also, is LocalSettings.hp editable for wiki owners? I wanted to enable the PWA extension [10:04:24] With some added changes. [10:04:48] I mean LocalSettings.php my keyboard isn't that good to use [10:10:41] PWA? [10:11:18] Yes there's a fantastic extention allowing to install the wiki as PWA [10:12:35] You can do that in Special:ManageWiki/extensions [10:12:53] No need to go in php files [10:14:08] Now I enabled this, and this requires adding additional codes to the file [10:14:55] Some of extension configuration is also exposed to managewiki [10:15:32] Please check for specific settings with the search bar in "manage this wiki's additionak settings" [10:16:16] If they're not available, someone will have to modify the global files. In that case please create a task on phabricator [10:16:34] [1/2] wfLoadExtension( 'PWA' ); [10:16:34] [2/2] Does this equivalent to enabling the extension? [10:16:39] Yes [10:16:57] Please ignore install settings for extensions [10:17:09] Got it [10:18:21] And if there's additional variables that would be changed in localsettings.php, they are also handled via managewiki ^ [10:18:38] [1/7] $wgPWAConfigs = [ [10:18:38] [2/7] "main" => [ [10:18:39] [3/7] "manifest" => "MediaWiki:manifest.json", [10:18:39] [4/7] "patterns" => ["/.*/"] // Match all pages. [10:18:39] [5/7] ] [10:18:40] [6/7] ]; [10:18:40] [7/7] And this just means I can simply use managing the namespace functionalities to configure? [10:18:46] Oh I know [10:18:48] Thanks. [10:19:22] Also I need to add a chat widget for visitors, but not for signed-in users is there an option? [10:19:47] That requires JS [10:19:57] I have no Idea. [10:20:54] I just wanted to let visitors contact me but not for those existing users. [10:21:01] Or for a specific page? [10:21:20] Perhaps a support thread would be useful [10:23:02] If this is within the support scope I'd open one [10:57:29] Please do, #support is pretty much for any topic that'd get flooded here [11:01:42] Thanks. [11:01:51] Also I wanted to enable Semantic MediaWiki is this available for me? [11:08:13] I think I have a fix [11:08:23] any other @Site Reliability Engineers mind checking something [11:09:07] I've deployed it to 1 wiki [11:09:41] SMW is high-risk extension so you can't enable through ManageWiki but you can request to enable at [[SR/RC]] [11:09:41] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/SR/RC [11:09:41] [11:09:56] Thanks [11:10:16] I just need to turn the wiki into a searchable website, why is it with high risk? [11:10:24] idk [11:10:33] Oh okay [11:11:31] The purpose is to make knowledges on my wiki to be searchable by Google, Yandex, etc [11:12:24] thorbjorn: hi [11:13:07] thorbjorn: just to check, you want *.miraheze.org/index -> to be sent to *.miraheze.org/w/index.php (which will then auto go to /wiki/ as appropriate ) [11:15:56] you know in hindsight, people ask a lot about how PTW looks the way it does, so i might make a guide on that sometime [11:16:05] just dunno what specifically to cover [11:24:50] index.php even for both [11:27:16] RhinosF1: That doesn't sound correct. We need index.php/(.*) to be redirected to wiki/$1. Due to existing external incoming URLs to the domain we'd like to host the wiki at. [11:27:51] thorbjorn: we already route /w/index.php to /wiki/ [11:28:12] Your issue is /index.php doesn't work right [11:28:17] What does/w/ mean here? [11:28:22] because it's at /w/index.php for us [11:28:28] thorbjorn: the correct place for us [11:28:29] [1/2] Sometimes related to infoboxes, basic code like changing colours or adding stuff to different bars (depending on skin). Changing the logo or Favcon. [11:28:29] [2/2] There are some specific ones but I can't remember those. [11:28:46] RhinosF1: Please check the linked issue for an example, my last comment. [11:28:47] anything that's at /index.php for you will be /w/index.php for us [11:29:58] thorbjorn: I tested with https://themanaworld.miraheze.org/index.php/The_Mana_World:Home against a testwiki and it does end up going to https://themanaworld.miraheze.org/wiki/The_Mana_World:Home [11:30:03] [1/2] yeah, wp infobox styling is especially sensitive subject when PI is suggested [11:30:03] [2/2] and Agent has CSS for that, but I still didn't get it ... [11:30:13] asked couple of times [11:30:14] The redirect is just to keep old links working, since it will not be possible to update all of them. [11:30:53] yup, but that's too much for a total newbie, they still need to understand how CSS works [11:30:54] RhinosF1: It ends up at https://themanaworld.miraheze.org/wiki/index.php/The_Mana_World:Home (404) for me. [11:30:58] thorbjorn: this will always change /index.php on the root for all wikis going through our cloudflare once I roll it out to all wikis, I need a tester [11:31:04] thorbjorn: It's not live yet [11:31:33] yeah i would probably preface it with "you need to actually know css to do any of this" [11:31:40] RhinosF1: Ah, ok. Then this change looks good. [11:31:56] thorbjorn: I will deploy it once I have an SRE review [11:32:10] RhinosF1: Thank you so much! [11:41:39] thorbjorn: should be on all wikis [11:43:02] Sometimes advice has been given to Inspect elements using the browser, and to a lot of people its like giving someone a book in Welsh and expecting them to be able to read it. [11:43:16] if anyone has issues with accessing us, I just deployed a new redirect at the edge so scream at us [11:43:29] also yourwiki.miraheze.org/index.php will now work [12:42:10] What happens if I edit the request while it's in review? [12:44:26] Will I get moved down the queue? [12:47:49] nope [12:49:15] It stays in the que where it is. [12:49:28] Alright thank u [12:59:10] What do you think would be a good introduction/explanation of CSS then? I'm planning a guide and need more info about what people would understand better [13:02:57] Inspector is the tool. It's hard to style anything without it, so we tell people to open it, but we lack the time to, like, explain the entire concept of css (so the guide should come helpful for this). Learning css without the inspector is like reading a math textbook without doing the math [13:09:41] [1/3] Well most people could probably read a matha textbook, but if it explained fractions in Spanish they'd be stuck. [13:09:41] [2/3] https://www.w3schools.com/css/ [13:09:41] [3/3] Had some good guides to help nudge me along, because the information I was looking for was how to stylize the headers and the tables. Just as far as basic stuff "th" and "td" when you start sounds like nonsense. [13:11:37] [1/2] I guess figuring out the elements of a page might be a good start, I started with the body. So [13:11:38] [2/2] body { color:} and how it relates to the page, might be a good place. [13:14:03] W3schools is good, yeah [13:15:11] [1/2] That's essentially what the inspector is for. It allows you to see the page element, highlight them, and see their styling [13:15:11] [2/2] The challenge I guess is to introduce it in a non intimidating way heheh [13:19:28] Thanks for the insight :pupCoffeeMH: [13:21:24] Start off small and work way slowly into the php file is my best suggestion. Wikitables, infoboxes, backgrounds, headers, sidebar. The basic look is probanly what most people are after, so figuring out how to break the basics down and showing people how it works, is then hopefully gonna allow you to help them put it together. [13:22:01] Idk if chrome has it as I can't check rn, but Edge has this option in when inspect element where it breaks down where specific colours and fonts/font sizes are used [13:22:50] This was very useful for editing the colours for my wiki [13:23:05] Oh as in the current element's styles or like an overview? [13:23:12] Overview [13:23:20] CSS Overview [13:23:30] Sounds really nice, I'd have to check for that in Chrome [13:29:29] [1/2] Sounds similar to the "Computed" tab (this is from Opera GX, but that runs on chromium so should be the same) [13:29:29] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1234859170176434275/image.png?ex=663243b8&is=6630f238&hm=eaa061f0df15af28cb7f87b5f6022fe63c01e3160bf90229cae3132e1b9c0d5b& [13:30:39] [1/2] This sounds like it would require an in-depth guide. Sadly most of the time people just want to do one very specific thing and not really learn css from my experience. So I'm planning a quick start guide, and then maybe make more in-depth ones, or at least "learning resources" of sorts [13:30:40] [2/2] Your suggestions are valuable though and I'll keep them in mind! [13:31:36] Yup it's exactly the same, but it's still for the selexted element, so probably not what Moths meant [13:32:37] :EpicFaceMH: [13:33:41] But I geuss a guide to how the inspector works would be where to go from, including a few basic examples? Afterall if someone has little to know knowledge of HTML and CSS, yes even the Inspector can be daunting I imagine, but it is no doubt the best tool for the purpose [13:35:06] [1/2] (Sorry for the crappy pic, i just cant open discord on the school computer) [13:35:06] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1234860585351385088/20240430_143421.jpg?ex=6632450a&is=6630f38a&hm=0f23e328fa4a8563bfd8c78d959574edb7dbb6d4a9916fd10180a6a2bb33a968& [13:36:07] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1234860843028447272/20240430_143554.jpg?ex=66324547&is=6630f3c7&hm=893cc11fa73e8b4906b0fcf8f0cc268e2c835764972cb954cc2c6212fd6e9d36& [13:37:58] That's really cool [13:40:04] Okay it seems like Chrome has this as well but it's more hidden. Will check in a minute [13:40:35] Looks like we're gonna need a tips&tricks page too [13:43:48] Apparently experimental but it's here! Very hidden tho [13:44:00] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1234862822744264774/image.png?ex=6632471f&is=6630f59f&hm=0069d17fb4ad1d3a0e93dc92fb02a130e2a546422654dd90a04dd279df3cfec1& [13:44:28] [1/2] here 😆 [13:44:28] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1234862942332129361/image.png?ex=6632473c&is=6630f5bc&hm=2aaf20fb19427168bb237f416e64124d54af3725ed7c0f0c2dfa81cbf8f0d875& [13:45:53] Ohh, nice that does look like it could be handy indeed [13:46:16] It does have some cool stuff ye [13:46:36] In a way it is kinda the opposite of Computed tab I geuss you could almost say [13:46:41] I can see font be very useful if you're worried custom font is not applied everywhere [13:46:59] Same for colors [14:13:51] so that's 10 servers I'm in [14:14:08] and the only servers [14:33:48] [1/2] does anybody know what is extension is called? [14:33:48] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1234875357853913179/image.png?ex=663252cc&is=6631014c&hm=c40fef43b80b82dfd9aa05fa2e86bf82d873073a318b01331d33cea66e627e28& [14:33:52] specifically the general/translations box [14:34:18] Yeah [14:34:34] I’ll.. get back to you as soon as I remember 😅 [14:34:45] I hate these tip of your tongue moments [14:34:50] I wanna say EditTools? [14:35:00] [[mw:Extension:EditTools]] [14:35:00] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:EditTools [14:35:02] [14:35:03] i’ll look rq [14:36:59] No don’t think so [14:39:50] i think it’s [[mw:Extension:InputBot]] [14:39:50] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:InputBot [14:39:51] [14:40:10] Huh https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Edittools [14:40:11] [[mw:Extension:InputBox]] [14:40:11] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:InputBox [14:40:12] [14:40:21] Nah [14:40:35] wait no [14:40:51] what are you looking for? [14:41:15] . [14:47:30] yes, it's EditTools [14:49:54] I always forgot how to set it up lol [14:50:08] There’s a MediaWiki ns page [14:51:55] yeah [14:51:59] and beside that [15:07:33] got it set up. [15:48:48] I'm trying to adjust what's in the Navigation bar on the cosmos skin but the changes aren't being applied. Idk if it just won't update or something else. [15:50:05] the navigation itself or? [15:52:52] its cached, try alt f5 or purge (if u have the purge extension) [15:56:06] Purging it manually did the trick, thanks! [16:04:55] Ok, maybe mediawiki namespace should be excluded from cache? [16:10:11] the navigation is cached on purpose i think, bc it isnt changed often [19:07:50] can a loginwiki admin delete this https://login.miraheze.org/wiki/User:Agent_(Miraheze) [19:08:51] Those exist? [19:11:27] why does autoconfirmed have permission to mark edits as patrolled on loginwiki [19:11:50] 'cuz _loginwiki_ [21:06:54] [1/2] I been waiting for a bit for the miraheze admins to answer my request 😅 [21:06:55] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1234974285672742922/image.png?ex=6632aeee&is=66315d6e&hm=45abecc09ecf3565d199b1ad6a8eb5cd2fb5d65f6dc5bade0175f401d7ed8a26& [21:07:01] [1/2] This person here too. [21:07:02] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1234974314395074601/image.png?ex=6632aef5&is=66315d75&hm=12133b7f01cba83095e6c70614aa1cf1c010900c0b4ef202e5fda1a692e00c90& [21:07:47] And my followup was gonna be what they said~ I don't feel motivated to document everything in this wiki if i know it'll be closed if i cannot randomly add something for it. [21:09:13] There is not machine we have to determine if it qualitfys, its purely up to stewards. one of them can prob provide more guidance on this. I will note that all you need to do is make one edit every so often to reset it or if it's locked go to ManageWiki and unclick the button [21:09:27] Feel free to drop them my id~ [21:10:07] I need to get this setting all toggled on, It really hurts for me. [21:12:16] What’s the wiki also [21:12:25] I can look and provide my own 2c [21:12:29] Meant my discord id* [21:12:31] But sure yeah [21:12:43] uhh, Offical miraheze link or the link in subdomain form? [21:12:52] actually i'll just open the website and grab that version [21:12:54] Should be the lime [21:13:02] They look in this chat [21:13:09] what's up [21:13:13] Gotcha [21:13:19] not presently steward but might be able to add it to the lookat list [21:13:40] I can wait as long as needed [21:13:55] Gonna be a little while to write and document everything anyways [21:14:03] And with 2 games and a studio to cover [21:14:39] Yet™️ [21:14:53] bulking up the body of content and then arguing based on completion/project release schedule would be much more compelling [21:14:56] What’s the length to closure again, it’s reached the vote threshold [21:15:04] tomorrow I believe [21:18:03] hehehhe [21:18:10] nope, third in fact if 7 days [21:18:39] I'm confused, ignore that [21:18:48] 1st of may it is [21:19:50] ughh i have a notification that wont go away [21:21:15] [1/2] My notification icon is missing [21:21:15] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1234977894099456142/image0.jpg?ex=6632b24a&is=663160ca&hm=09efc9d117c1fccbb032c8f2e71b0d089cbeca58259a483260b0b2d37b515309& [21:23:00] Yeah but next time they just deleted the wiki [21:24:12] Something like deleting and archiving are different 😅 [21:24:52] it goes locked(public, open with a button) -> soft delete (shows as deleted but can be restored) [21:25:04] we are meant to do perm deletions but [21:25:08] that last time we did was [21:25:12] ever ago [21:26:26] also do #verify to send links [21:30:35] Sooo, Archive? [21:31:40] a minuscle edit, even just adding or removing a line break, even just on your user page, resets the timer [21:32:16] Yeah that doesn't change that i don't wanna keep up with the site every 2 months just for the wiki. [21:32:34] After i finish the wiki i wanna finish the wiki and update it when applicable 😅 [21:33:00] I don't wanna have to make edits that don't do anything~ Plus i don't know if i can setup a automatic bot to even push changes like that.. [21:33:03] Maybe i could- [21:33:09] Once the wiki is 'finished' it'll likely be eligble for an exemption [21:33:10] Hmmm, Seems a bit complex though [21:34:56] "finished" wikis are eligible for exemption, yes [21:35:25] Then i'll finish the front page and send it in 😅 [21:35:29] you need show that it's indeed, finished, or that's updates won't be frequent [21:35:33] Its gonna take a week or two max to finish this [21:35:46] Not accounting my own personal and mental breaks [21:35:49] my job [21:35:54] my hobbies [21:36:15] And everything else in that that. Well, Place 😅 [21:36:22] So yeah, Front page and submitting it again~ [21:37:43] finish the wiki, not the home page 🙂 [21:39:51] I don't have that kind of time. And with the lingering thought of the wiki randomly being closed and probably fully deleted i don't wanna consider it until i can allocate the full time to every page. [21:40:57] Finished means a state where it's populated and useful to readers, not when every page is 500000 bytes long [21:46:00] The Dormancy Policy is quite generous in this regard; a wiki must go 4 months without inactivity for closure (an inactivity notice will display 2 months into this timeframe) and 1 year until it's soft-deleted [21:46:27] Its just my first time ever having something like this [21:57:00] if you can appear and make the smallest of edits every few months it is no trouble, and the path to closure, let alone deletion is very long [22:00:56] I just hope i have the time to setup reminder notifications for that [22:01:05] why are all images on miraheze suddenly webp files [22:01:08] But currently i don't think i have as much time as i thought [22:02:24] wait no [22:02:30] its just a setting for a wiki [22:02:35] how do you turn it off [22:03:18] hm [22:04:37] huh? [22:05:36] [1/2] no viewa [22:05:37] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1234989058250510417/image.png?ex=6632bcb0&is=66316b30&hm=b8e8755074643a7dce0e6a9d7b06265db23a6beb69671e11d577193298760738& [22:05:57] But hey if anyone want's to watch Labster's presentation, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpEB6XMLz8 [22:13:49] Mwcon YouTube channel fell off 😂 [22:13:49] closure notifications are delivered by email iirc [22:14:19] eh it was half an hour lol [22:14:22] also hi hare [22:14:25] if that's truly the case, why not put that in writing in the dormancy policy? quite a bit of big deal to me. no harm in being clear at least in this area [22:14:28] [1/2] i can see why [22:14:29] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1234991288043044884/image.png?ex=6632bec4&is=66316d44&hm=342ee0b6238ab1462d24192aad0f7ae83c8378e5ec637fa0a105141315338e8b& [22:14:32] 8 videos in an hour [22:14:44] that last one was great [22:16:17] I think it kind of is. [22:16:41] [1/2] not sure if it would count as a policy or procedure/protocol change, but could possibly extension massmessage be utilized? [22:16:42] [2/2] - if emails are already being sent to people listed at Special:ActiveUsers, an on-wiki notice wouldn't hurt. plus on-wiki is likely less of a privacy risk since would have to query for it from database [22:17:41] It's sent to crats [22:17:57] Plus, the MMS messages would in itself reset the clock lmao [22:18:32] to staff, can someone please update the link for `Dormancy#Exceptions` at [[Dormancy Policy/Exemptions]]? it does not auto go to section [22:18:32] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Dormancy_Policy/Exemptions [22:18:33] [22:19:12] We've wanted to move it to a Special page was talking with reception about it today [22:20:24] [1/4] if that does reset then a better way to detect actual dormancy needs to be considered... [22:20:24] [2/4] - ignore extension activity, including logs [22:20:25] [3/4] - ignore log actions that are _not_ move, protect, block [22:20:25] [4/4] - ignore massmessage [22:21:05] We don't really have the reason/manpower to rewrite something that works fine [22:21:19] I don't see value in moving it to a separate page myself. Seems like it's integral to the policy and the page is not that long to warrant subpages, imho [22:21:22] [1/2] doesn't really read that way [22:21:22] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1234993023448776804/image.png?ex=6632c061&is=66316ee1&hm=ba62b5953165475a10cf76e5299b310ac710bad19e4e4ed62b6f43f7a663de6a& [22:21:48] Special not subpages. Make it automatically update [22:22:34] "read by many, edited but edited by few, where a lot of information is already on wiki and doesn't need to be actively edited." [22:23:08] that's for _if_ there are rare updates. Doesn't cover where its finished, perhaps implied [22:23:29] that honestly reads as a poorly constructed run on sentence [22:23:33] Oh lol i get those easily, I mean notifications to update the wiki if i am free at that time [22:24:05] I'll just set it up with google calender [22:24:06] its fine [22:24:09] well pix already said don't have man power to redo the system so an echo notification is probably out of the question [22:24:23] What? [22:24:31] what do you mean, what? [22:24:34] are we talking about the same thing? [22:24:40] uh I would hope so? [22:24:47] an inactivity notice warning would be nice if it doesn't already exist, which I'm pretty sure it doesn't but I could be wrong - this would be a thing to send out say, a week before the wiki status is updated [22:24:56] cc @reception123 so this track isn't totally lost [22:25:11] I was referring to the system that marks wikis as inacitve by viewing recent changes [22:25:26] That would not work with MMS [22:25:27] warning by email I should say [22:25:48] This may not to be too complicated. [22:26:04] I think we may notify crats [22:26:14] I'd need to check to code to confirm [22:26:30] this seems like the simplest way to go about it; I know there is notice but I'm not sure that notice actually happens at all before scary messages pop up or even before closure is initiated, by which time it's a bit gnarly [22:26:44] [1/2] yes and I suggested to improve on it. make it filter between all log activity vs specifics to avoid dormancy just resetting constantly where it just sits in limbo/hanging on [22:26:44] [2/2] use of massmessage would generate an echo notification on wiki [22:27:19] i'm not looking to make it more restrictive, just improve how it works. [22:28:25] [1/2] I wanted to go into the script and add the new functionality with closing wikis with no edits faster. But when I asked CA: [22:28:25] [2/2] > I would not recommend touching the inactivity script, that script is such a mess I understand like 20% of the logic of it lol. [22:28:41] yes, I saw that pix [22:28:56] So if something liek that is danger zoun [22:29:06] if not recommend to touch it, perhaps write a new script that's better [22:29:09] I'd rather not touch the script too much at this time [22:29:18] m3w has mentioned it before but some mechanism to better deal with 'zombie wikis' is a gap we've yet to fill, those which aren't maintained in a coherent way except likely spam/non content keeping fundamentally poor wikis alive long past their shelf life [22:29:39] it's not a topic stewards can afford to try and micromanage manually except for severe instances imo [22:29:40] on that note, I sent a DM to both Pix and Raidarr with no response [22:29:55] If you want to sure lol. I'm a horrible and novice mw dev so I won't be doing it for at least a while [22:29:56] per what raidarr said [22:30:03] I saw [22:30:18] I also don't have the means to test or run a script and everyone with shell is busy [22:30:24] is there a way to view a list of pages a template is used on? basically the opposite of the "Templates used on this page" list [22:30:39] Yes. [22:30:45] I did have a note to respond to that pm however didn't have anything notable to add to it [22:30:47] [[Special:WhatLinksHere]] [22:30:47] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere [22:30:48] [22:31:15] thank you! [22:31:35] this is the sort of thing that would be interesting to cover on the community portal, perhaps advancing to rfc; its enforcement will completely depend on manual reports [22:32:21] think brandon may have mispoke publicly on this point saying stewards had discretion...which in private discussion was shot down as accurate [22:32:22] imo with discretion the provisions are pretty workable, some of the later complaints like 'what classifies as overrun' is the kind of thing where you know it if you see it, stewards lean saying no if the case is not clear for such a thing but if it really is clearly just a crapshoot then yeah, may as well act on it [22:32:47] yeah no, stewards have no provision to just close wikis because they feel they're slums or whatnot [22:33:14] needs something more specific to step in and intervene for, with failure at that point being a road towards closure [22:33:49] if it really is overrun with say, arguable content policy violations, + no admins to bother nor anyone interested in taking it on, that is an avenue toward closure [22:34:06] [1/2] originally, I registered an account under the name of a wiki alliance so it really really wouldn't be appropriate for me to use such an account to file a proposal unless I were to unlink then rejoin to a personal account. [22:34:06] [2/2] note, the account was registered last june/july when the mass resignations happened. the main purpose was to assist wikis to find a new home after RhinosF1 reached out to me in private [22:35:58] the situations are just off top of my head of what _could_ arise as being eligible for a speedy delete and not waste time on it, having it stuck in a limbo [22:36:09] ya know the most obvious [22:36:26] a different account is probably advisable given the context ya [22:36:33] it's a reasonable list in my book [22:36:49] I don't mind others amending to file it formally [22:37:07] in fact, I encourage an actual active community member file a revised proposal using the draft [22:37:07] I think the main thing that would give a hurdle to the proposal is concern over the additional effort spent to detect and deal with wikis of that nature in light of already extensive everyday tasks [22:37:46] the detection/basic investigation bit could ideally be handled by 'lower cvt', ie, put global rollbacker to some use though that's going a fair bit beyond that role's description [22:37:50] is the script not logging when it starts a timer or is reset? [22:38:21] that could help to identify wikis that keep entering into the dormancy state [22:38:50] I'm sure it does but anything on that is an sre matter and collecting those stats in a useful way would require one of them to dedicate the time/energy to that task [22:39:07] then getting that information from sre to the cvt/steward team that would actually handle enforcement [22:39:31] well I don't think the log data would necessarily fall under privacy unless its reporting the emails being sent [22:40:59] on this note, are the 2 wikis identified yesterday and confirmed by Tali64 going to be acted upon? [22:41:37] I do have a functional website content disclaimer gadget that could be put to use... [22:41:49] but one of the wikis has a big problem with the background [22:43:47] I'll probably end up looking at them over the next two days when I have better openings [22:44:13] realistically to act, unless another steward gets to it, I will need to wait until I have the big hat itself to do things fully [22:45:50] @pixldev congrats didnt see you were mod [22:46:09] thank you:pupCoffeeMH: