[00:34:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <poopy_kibble, replying to mooncloud> no tell me
[00:34:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <poopy_kibble> plz
[00:35:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mooncloud, replying to BlankEclair> ^
[00:35:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <poopy_kibble> txh
[00:35:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <poopy_kibble> thx
[00:36:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <poopy_kibble, replying to mooncloud> wait um what namespace
[00:36:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mooncloud> Under the file type
[00:36:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <poopy_kibble> yeah
[00:36:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mooncloud> It should say json
[00:37:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <poopy_kibble> ok
[00:37:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mooncloud> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329248141316198404/IMG_1300.png?ex=6789a64d&is=678854cd&hm=8692e229b162c06f7f2e0496640e84463ac24b1d0876638eb9c65032a4367c1a&
[00:37:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mooncloud> Oops :3
[00:37:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mooncloud, replying to mooncloud> This
[00:37:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mooncloud> Under generate choose managewiki
[00:37:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <poopy_kibble> fuck i chose xml
[00:37:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <poopy_kibble> ok lemme try again
[00:38:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <poopy_kibble> ok yay
[00:38:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <poopy_kibble> now i import using "phorge"
[00:38:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <poopy_kibble> is that like a special page on my wiki or what
[00:40:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <poopy_kibble> oh wait nvm its the issue tracker
[00:44:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <poopy_kibble> ok i still dont know where to import settings
[00:44:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <poopy_kibble> i have the json file but do i just have to submit an import request?
[00:45:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <poopy_kibble> it wont let me import it on special:import
[01:06:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to snowstacked> i aint got a single clue on what im doing with these HAHAHAAH
[03:01:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> gey
[03:01:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> hey*
[03:06:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to ashley.cornwall> gay
[03:09:15] <BlankEclair>	 gay
[03:10:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Hi claire
[03:11:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> happy wikipedia day
[03:11:37] <BlankEclair>	 it's wikipedia day?
[03:11:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> well
[03:11:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> for you it was yesterday
[03:12:00] <BlankEclair>	 what is wikipedia day?
[03:12:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall, replying to pixldev> i am indeed very gay
[03:12:07] <BlankEclair>	 hell yeah :3
[03:12:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> but yes January 15 2001 is wikipedia’s birthday
[03:12:14] <BlankEclair>	 :O
[03:12:18] <BlankEclair>	 holy shit
[03:12:23] <BlankEclair>	 i was editing wikipedia on wikipedia day
[03:12:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> I saw
[03:12:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> !!
[03:12:41] <BlankEclair>	 !!!
[03:12:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> I did not alas
[03:12:50] <BlankEclair>	 (i got a thank on mediawiki wiki)
[03:12:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> based
[03:13:11] <BlankEclair>	 u
[03:13:35] <BlankEclair>	 https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=21839786
[03:13:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Oh yea
[03:13:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> :AwesomeSmiley:
[03:13:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> i think i just made a discord bot have a mental breakdown
[03:13:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Anyways
[03:14:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to ashley.cornwall> :thumbsup:
[03:14:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329287553282474024/image.png?ex=6789cb01&is=67887981&hm=85120d4f3d318ee7162959ecfb69ec565ef25b04fdea2ab001d354048ca86f98&
[03:14:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> this is it
[03:14:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> EPIC is really good music gawd damn
[03:14:32] <BlankEclair>	 meow :3
[03:14:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> meow
[03:14:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to ashley.cornwall> I remember bullying clyde when he existed
[03:14:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> god yeah i remember that
[03:14:57] <BlankEclair>	 clyde's gone?
[03:15:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> yeah for ages now
[03:15:07] <BlankEclair>	 oh wow
[03:15:25] <BlankEclair>	 it's been so long since i used discord that i'm now trans
[03:15:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> LMAO
[03:15:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall, replying to BlankEclair> trans twins
[03:16:03] <BlankEclair>	 :3
[03:16:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> oh god he’s pissed referring to song im listening to
[03:16:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> [[w:EPIC: The Musical]] rocks
[03:16:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPIC:_The_Musical>
[03:19:56] <BlankEclair>	 i wonder, what's loginwiki on wmf wikis for?
[03:20:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> login
[03:20:27] <BlankEclair>	 h
[03:20:29] <BlankEclair>	 how much login
[03:20:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> trillions
[03:20:39] <BlankEclair>	 no way
[03:20:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> It’s used as part of the technical infrastructure of CA
[03:20:45] <BlankEclair>	 oh okay
[03:20:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> i actualy have no idea
[03:21:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> More so soon with the prophesied launch drawing near
[03:21:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> The legends were true
[03:21:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> SUL3 is real
[03:21:35] <BlankEclair>	 w
[03:21:36] <BlankEclair>	 WHAT
[03:21:50] <BlankEclair>	 no way
[03:21:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> 🇸🇯
[03:22:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> no i typed shocked emoji
[03:22:09] <BlankEclair>	 rip the poor souls who have to write a fallback for users with webauthn on not-loginwiki though
[03:22:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Way
[03:23:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> its rolled out to, some few ones
[03:23:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> No
[03:23:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> new account creations i think
[03:23:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> next round is group0 and test wikis?
[03:24:13] <BlankEclair>	 oh my stars, it's finally happening
[03:24:19] <BlankEclair>	 just like my inclusion to the wmf security hall of fame
[03:25:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sdasdasdsadm> [1/5] Hi there.
[03:25:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sdasdasdsadm> [2/5] Im trying to create a home page for my wiki and I would like to have 'hot pages, most popular pages (image boxes to click)'
[03:25:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sdasdasdsadm> [3/5] And maybe some category links
[03:25:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sdasdasdsadm> [4/5] Having hard time creating it since I have no clue where to begin - for example on Fandom it was automatic and looked cool
[03:25:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sdasdasdsadm> [5/5] Any tips?
[03:32:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to sdasdasdsadm> Hm, I think I’ve seen some tools around that do that, but I can’t recall right now and its too late at nightfor searching. Maybe check out search or #support history?
[03:33:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sdasdasdsadm> [1/2] Thanks, will check it out
[03:33:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sdasdasdsadm> [2/2] what does |link=Skills| do?
[03:33:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sdasdasdsadm> is Skills the wiki page in that context?
[03:34:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to sdasdasdsadm> ?
[03:35:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> in an image?
[03:35:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> that links to the wiki page Skills yes
[03:35:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sdasdasdsadm, replying to pixldev> [1/2] yea probably
[03:35:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sdasdasdsadm, replying to pixldev> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329292946146590770/image.png?ex=6789d007&is=67887e87&hm=8bec082b56c4da2c6c1103b706a1913c260a7da0a2fa3ed75704c6482a9d9990&
[03:36:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sdasdasdsadm> Ok thanks for help. Also another question, any way to edit multiple pages at once? For example adding same category to multiple pages without doing it manually
[03:36:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sdasdasdsadm> Or putting infoboxes template in every single one
[03:38:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> a few
[03:38:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> [[WP:AWB]], [[dev:JWB]], [[mw:Pywikibot]]
[03:38:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> [1/3] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AWB>
[03:38:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> [2/3] <https://dev.miraheze.org/wiki/JWB>
[03:38:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> [3/3] <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Pywikibot>
[03:57:33] <BlankEclair>	 link to JWB was scuffed btw: [[WP:JWB]]
[04:27:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <worldcreator67> How long does it usually take for the Wanted Pages special page to update?
[04:35:42] <BlankEclair>	 every three days or so i think?
[04:36:32] <BlankEclair>	 it's um
[04:36:35] <BlankEclair>	 whatever this is: https://github.com/miraheze/puppet/blob/2345c50fe4c9fd3d48a6c6ae65bef1e328cba6ed/modules/mediawiki/manifests/jobqueue/runner.pp#L182
[04:39:28] <BlankEclair>	 well, i can tell you that it will start to update in 21 minutes
[04:39:33] <BlankEclair>	 > Next elapse: Thu 2025-01-16 05:00:00 UTC
[04:39:40] <BlankEclair>	 (from TZ=UTC systemd-analyze calendar '*-1/3 05:00')
[06:30:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <toastedwell> [1/2] discord email wasn't comprised 🫡
[06:30:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <toastedwell> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329337076608532570/image.png?ex=6789f920&is=6788a7a0&hm=7c4ab2dd11cd2085a16fc9e8c39fc98379c26a8424d18d08ec815bdd8641f049&
[06:31:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <toastedwell> https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/1i29dx7/no_way_this_is_legit_right_uses_the_mdiscord/
[06:38:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <longjawed> how do i get the namespace ID for a custom namespace?
[06:41:56] <BlankEclair>	 longjawed: my lazy method is Special:ManageWiki/namespaces -> select the namespace -> grab id from url
[07:39:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mooncloud> How are extension settings usually added to managewiki?
[07:42:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> [1/2] is it possible to replace `.mw-logo-icon` using css?
[07:42:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329355199185424446/image.png?ex=678a0a01&is=6788b881&hm=2cbd7500dde4d38eea45b4b5d80ab85931b37d98cdb340dea657af7aad7b6d2a&
[07:47:29] <BlankEclair>	 prabhasxd: should be, yeah
[07:48:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to BlankEclair> so uh how
[07:48:10] <BlankEclair>	 huh, i can't find that class
[07:48:11] <BlankEclair>	 what skin?
[07:48:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> also this themetoggle extension is confusing me a lot
[07:48:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to BlankEclair> wait let me check again
[07:48:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> its `mw-logo citizen-headerbutton` or `citizen-headerbutton`
[07:49:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to prabhasxd> changing themes doesnt seem to work?? like i defined one theme and it isnt working
[07:49:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> and the default dark and light mode themes basically break it
[07:50:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> [1/2] like these two just breaks it lol
[07:50:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329357003839246336/image.png?ex=678a0baf&is=6788ba2f&hm=193f9d25b341190e9d451b1fc1acbc8840cce336d19dc9c3c85b436104f051b6&
[07:54:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked, replying to prabhasxd> because themetoggle and citizen built in theme are two different things
[07:54:08] <BlankEclair>	 > .mw-logo:not(:hover) {
[07:54:09] <BlankEclair>	 >     background-image: url(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/TakingPolaroidInsideSupermanBriefs.jpg);
[07:54:11] <BlankEclair>	 >     background-size: cover;
[07:54:12] <BlankEclair>	 > }
[07:54:14] <BlankEclair>	 > .mw-logo-icon {
[07:54:15] <BlankEclair>	 >     display: none;
[07:54:17] <BlankEclair>	 > }
[07:54:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> first time seeing css code through irc
[07:54:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> wow
[07:54:33] <BlankEclair>	 you're welcome
[08:14:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <longjawed> how do I put in an input box in every category page that creates a new page under that category?
[08:24:19] <BlankEclair>	 see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Creating_pages_with_preloaded_text for preloading text
[08:37:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <longjawed> [1/2] Im using namespace preload and I put this in the preloading page but whenever I create a new page under that namespace it just shows the template source itself instead of the actual text I put in the preloading page
[08:37:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <longjawed> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329368941834928149/image.png?ex=678a16ce&is=6788c54e&hm=b65fdd94a12ad859cbff76013eff42893591bff687e3c46dc31c22446144e4f2&
[08:37:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <longjawed> also yeah i know how to preload text but idk how to make an inputbox for specifically making a new page under whatever category page its in
[08:54:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to BlankEclair> css in irc looks funny
[08:54:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> anyways thanks hehehahahha
[09:16:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <moon_freeze> [1/3] Hey! I apologize if this is not the right place to enquire, but I am a high school psychology student looking to create a wiki that emphasizes on psychological phenomenon [including disorders, special cases, etc.]. I am aware of the existing pages on almost every topic that psychology has touched, but my idea is not congruent with just a compilation of these.
[09:16:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <moon_freeze> [2/3] The vision is a site that is more interactive and concise, such as WikiHow, whose primary goal is to provide accurate and concise information and most importantly, dispel stigma around mental health by emphasizing on common misconceptions and confusions [such as the confusion between Bipolar Disorder and BPD, or the common inaccurate interpretation of what a trauma bond is]. Psyc
[09:16:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <moon_freeze> [3/3] hology as a science is often misunderstood and misinterpreted, the goal of this site is to make knowledge more clear and comprehensive.
[09:17:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <moon_freeze> Please let me know if this is the right place to ask about this, and what steps must go into this project. Thank you.
[09:17:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> you can request a wiki in https://meta.miraheze.org/Special:RequestWiki
[09:19:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <moon_freeze> Thanks a lot!
[09:49:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jeanboulanger> Most of my images bugged.
[09:49:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jeanboulanger> Will I have to reimport them?
[09:49:47] <BlankEclair>	 > [16/01/2025 20:49] <MirahezeRelay> <jeanboulanger> Most of my images bugged.
[09:49:48] <BlankEclair>	 wdym?
[09:50:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jeanboulanger, replying to BlankEclair> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329387304246182010/Bug.PNG?ex=678a27e8&is=6788d668&hm=ff90692594876065d22ac7465a4cfa459dbbae6a5fc9a644e3450dbc2a6eb784&
[09:50:40] <BlankEclair>	 link?
[09:51:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jeanboulanger, replying to BlankEclair> https://arcanefr.miraheze.org/wiki/Galerie:Vi
[09:51:38] <BlankEclair>	 ah, it's a private wiki, i can't help you there ^^;
[09:51:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> It's private
[09:52:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jeanboulanger> Not private anymore but
[09:52:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jeanboulanger> seems fine
[09:52:40] <BlankEclair>	 images lgtm, can you still reproduce?
[09:52:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Looks fine to me ye
[10:03:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> Is it possible to import a template from a fandom wiki and would i be supposed to give credit?
[10:07:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked, replying to 7seasofq> [1/2] Special:Export on the fandom wiki, Special:Import on the miraheze wiki
[10:07:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked, replying to 7seasofq> [2/2] you can technically credit the wiki by putting the interwiki prefix and edit summary
[10:09:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> thank you, how would one properly credit doing as you said? I'm new to this and I'm not sure i quite understand
[10:14:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked, replying to 7seasofq> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329393422376636470/Screenshot_2025-01-16-18-14-37-75_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg?ex=678a2d9a&is=6788dc1a&hm=370f5cfee12da35fe7fbfa3c533f7eb99482028b477795eebdcc03702d373bcc&
[10:19:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> thank you 🙏
[10:20:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to 7seasofq> [1/2] The best credit is the `Permanent link` from the version you took the info from. 
[10:20:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to 7seasofq> [2/2] -Go to View history, and rightclick the version, and copy the link.
[10:22:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> For example: https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Community_portal?oldid=449625
[10:22:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> And i'd put it in the comment area right?
[10:22:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> Yes
[10:22:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> All the previous authors are credited, but newer editors wont
[10:22:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> would it be best to put Credits to "_" or just the link itself
[10:23:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> Just the link itself is enough.
[10:23:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> But you can if you want to.
[10:23:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> all of that helps a lot, thank you for clarifying
[10:23:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> You're welcome
[10:24:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <longjawed> Bump
[10:26:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> You need to add: `subst:` at the beginning. It will replace the template as actual text.
[10:26:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> {{subst:...
[10:32:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> [1/2] How would i import something like this, apparently its needed for the template I imported to work
[10:32:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329397741729873961/Screenshot_2025-01-16_at_2.31.29_AM.png?ex=678a31a0&is=6788e020&hm=cfa5f4075095a398d73f3be78c2816fd679dd72d5d395f50d3af716dc76621a2&
[10:35:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kamidere> Are there any updates on the whatlinkshere issues?
[10:36:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked, replying to 7seasofq> Special:Export on the fandom wiki, Special:Import on the miraheze wiki
[10:36:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> for the export part
[10:37:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329399216245571655/Screenshot_2025-01-16-18-37-26-76_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg?ex=678a3300&is=6788e180&hm=251ad22a684ff8a061f85d2617bf0c86125dc1e9f7fa1d026641876bd7af6100&
[10:40:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> ohhh its the same process as the templates without the box checked tyty
[10:44:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <longjawed, replying to rodejong> [1/3] Doesn't work
[10:44:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <longjawed, replying to rodejong> [2/3] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329400899315044373/image.png?ex=678a3491&is=6788e311&hm=0f35b18c080bee6999062d9cb5156437c2c33c66c5afb127132a02b54381b5d1&
[10:44:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <longjawed, replying to rodejong> [3/3] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329400899549790279/image.png?ex=678a3491&is=6788e311&hm=b06a9d2582aac16afc1b6c3a1132268e821f1889f32ded6cfdd40acfec21af89&
[10:45:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked, replying to longjawed> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329401135353692160/1329400899747053609remix-1737024325559.png?ex=678a34c9&is=6788e349&hm=ca153d43d341c2f57748d0f18b2f57b2f203ec0d1e467868c23b6bc54faf2b4a&
[10:45:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <longjawed> fuk
[10:46:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <longjawed, replying to snowstacked> [1/2] I fixed it to subst and it went back to being the template source itself
[10:46:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <longjawed, replying to snowstacked> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329401441395413033/image.png?ex=678a3512&is=6788e392&hm=7a401e3262dfd18f5f9aa60f99317118583814c71362ec9b68c5c273250b56f3&
[10:46:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <longjawed> on the preload pag
[10:48:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kamidere> What are you trying to achieve?
[10:48:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked, replying to longjawed> ^ they said here
[11:00:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kamidere> What is null editing?
[11:12:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to kamidere> You just go to [edit], the edit window opens, you don't edit the text, but you save the page with a summary.
[11:13:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> It doesn't change anything, but it is a way of giving the system a kick to reload the page with the newest info.
[11:15:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> [1/2] anyone know how i can solve this?
[11:15:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329408558185320508/Screenshot_2025-01-16_at_3.14.42_AM.png?ex=678a3bb3&is=6788ea33&hm=9afc9a7182bbb29df72f7b7895066fd15efe8549caf402a40067b06d65dc3359&
[11:15:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to 7seasofq> Miraheze doesn't allow loading templates from other wiki's like on Fandom.
[11:18:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> You need to copy [[dev:Module:Arguments]] over to your own wiki, as well as [[fandom:dev:Module:Team Template]] and correct any other template or module that directly links to Fandom's Dev wiki.
[11:18:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> [1/2] <https://dev.miraheze.org/wiki/Module:Arguments>
[11:18:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> [2/2] <https://dev.fandom.com/wiki/Module:Team_Template>
[11:21:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> how do i copy [[fandom:dev:Module:Team Template]] over to my wiki?
[11:22:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> <https://dev.fandom.com/wiki/Module:Team_Template>
[11:22:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> the site looks empty so i was wondering what the process was
[11:22:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329410534327586907/Screenshot_2025-01-16_at_3.22.47_AM.png?ex=678a3d8a&is=6788ec0a&hm=c66c62d850c5c8b7e9b4b54610b1ba6bb2a16f669523b175f07c5317dd9fc432&
[11:26:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [1/4] module pages aren't templates, they're exactly modules, pages supporting Lua code, a programming language 
[11:26:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [2/4] modules allow to do quite fancy stuff, Wikipedia uses the a lot, for example, but this will result in complicated export/import procedure 
[11:26:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [3/4] in case of Fandom tho, you just have to copy the entire code and paste on a page of the same name on your wiki
[11:26:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [4/4] what is this module you're showing, however, idk
[11:27:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> OH i think they were just referring that i substitute for the actual fandom site
[11:27:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> i was taking the advice literally
[11:30:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> [1/2] so do i copy all of this and create a whole new module page and put it there
[11:31:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329412583828099152/Screenshot_2025-01-16_at_3.29.48_AM.png?ex=678a3f73&is=6788edf3&hm=136679609b799b7702961d3473a4b2d4ff9922b0c3b756f45f695619e55dac19&
[11:31:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> [1/2] or would i do this process again?
[11:31:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329412680007680001/Screenshot_2025-01-16_at_3.30.08_AM.png?ex=678a3f8a&is=6788ee0a&hm=4e265e0e4f3d0f606f6a60cb114af4b3e5ca27f3d27fc07918f22a419c8ac38d&
[11:43:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> [1/2] I did everything and the Script error is gone now, but the Dev:Arguments thing is still present
[11:43:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329415641093902419/Screenshot_2025-01-16_at_3.42.21_AM.png?ex=678a424c&is=6788f0cc&hm=69b2b45ce7a4a0433535a67d9468397ee640c2cdf3bdf97cdf0487752795de25&
[11:50:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> [[fandom:Dev:Arguments]]
[11:50:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> <https://dev.fandom.com/wiki/Arguments>
[11:51:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> [[fandom:Module:Dev:Arguments]]
[11:51:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> <https://module.fandom.com/wiki/Dev:Arguments>
[11:51:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> https://community.fandom.com/Module:Dev:Arguments ?
[11:51:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> oh nvm
[12:04:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> You need to change `module:dev.arguments` into `module:Arguments`
[12:04:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> i did
[12:05:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> well actually it automatically became module:Arguments
[12:05:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> Can you link me to the page where you see this?
[12:05:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> on my wiki?
[12:06:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> it's private
[12:07:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> Oh, yeah that makes it more difficult
[12:07:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> Did you purge the page?
[12:07:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> is it possible to make it public or do i need approval to make it public
[12:08:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to BlankEclair> one problem with this, hovering over it breaks its spin animation
[12:08:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> No you can make it public
[12:08:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> is it possible to make this not happen claire??
[12:08:16] <BlankEclair>	 huh, there's a spin animation?
[12:08:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> where are the settings to make it public
[12:08:42] <BlankEclair>	 it's instantaneous on my end
[12:08:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to 7seasofq> Special:ManageWiki/core
[12:09:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to BlankEclair> yeah
[12:09:13] <BlankEclair>	 oh wait, is it a javascript thing
[12:09:32] <BlankEclair>	 huh, it is!
[12:09:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> [1/2] `.mw-logo-icon` spins when you hover over it
[12:09:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329422285899042868/waterfox_DmfeWSQmOW.gif?ex=678a487c&is=6788f6fc&hm=0caad795a09add459c08622143bc9b6f9e8948efff4e3be9802ace10b2849e39&
[12:09:34] <BlankEclair>	 and it looks neat
[12:09:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> and when you dont hover over it
[12:15:27] <BlankEclair>	 yeah idk how to do this purely with css
[12:15:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq, replying to rodejong> https://ivcuniverse.miraheze.org/wiki/The_Guardians_(Earth-121)
[12:15:37] <BlankEclair>	 if you want, i can come up with a js solution to replace the image with the one in the css
[12:16:24] <BlankEclair>	 ah fuck, image also has padding to account for
[12:16:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to BlankEclair> i mean that would be cool
[12:16:32] <BlankEclair>	 yeah idk how to do this properly anymore xD
[12:16:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to BlankEclair> https://tenor.com/view/sushichaeng-stan-twitter-homer-simpson-rain-gif-25606317
[12:17:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> oh and also the logo is a bigger than the default one lol
[12:24:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to 7seasofq> [1/2] The problem is here:
[12:24:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to 7seasofq> [2/2] https://ivcuniverse.miraheze.org/wiki/Module:HF?action=edit#mw-ce-l6
[12:24:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [1/7] ```function p.get_content(pagename)
[12:24:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [2/7]     local output = ''
[12:24:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [3/7]     if not p.isempty(pagename)
[12:24:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [4/7]         then output = mw.title.new(p.break_link(pagename,1)):getContent() or ''
[12:24:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [5/7]     end
[12:24:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [6/7]     return output
[12:24:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [7/7] end```
[12:25:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> I am unsure what is wrong with it as my LUA knowledge is limited
[12:25:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> @.labster You know more of LUA then I do
[12:25:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> Could you take a look at it?
[12:26:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> where should i get a clean or at least i assume correct version of the module?
[12:29:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to 7seasofq> https://dev.fandom.com/wiki/Module:HF
[12:29:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> should i replace it or wait?
[12:30:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> replace it, it's aparently outdated
[12:30:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> I fixed to other modules who were still pointing to dev.
[12:32:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> [1/2] definitely worked but now theres more
[12:32:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329428020926087188/Screenshot_2025-01-16_at_4.32.05_AM.png?ex=678a4dd3&is=6788fc53&hm=17975e51415a43535f553fbcf82d5a6faa2e9378ebbcab596cda2a37e0c3cd74&
[12:32:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> do i find those modules and replace or add if needed?
[12:33:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> Yes
[12:34:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> on this site correct https://dev.fandom.com
[12:34:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> Module:StaffCorrection and Module:StandardizedName
[12:35:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> Yes!
[12:36:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> they dont appear when i search them
[12:36:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> is there a proper way to search for them
[12:37:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> Yeah, I am starting to notice that this might be specially written for the wiki you copied it from
[12:37:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> @snowstacked do you know what are --color-surface-1, --color-surface-2, --color-surface-3 and --color-surface-4?
[12:37:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> for citizen
[12:37:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> read citizen skin wiki on their github
[12:38:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to 7seasofq> Which wiki did you get this from?
[12:38:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> Should I copy them from the wiki im getting it from?
[12:38:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Marvel_Database
[12:38:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to 7seasofq> If you know how to adjust them to your wiki then it's fine
[12:38:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> Otherwise don't
[12:39:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> yeah im not sure how to adjust them to mine
[12:39:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to snowstacked> i cant find anything about them
[12:39:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> unless im blind idk
[12:39:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> yea
[12:40:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to prabhasxd> https://github.com/StarCitizenTools/mediawiki-skins-Citizen/wiki/Customizing-Citizen-styles
[12:40:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> beaten me to it
[12:41:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> ah thanks!
[12:42:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to 7seasofq> I think it's better to leave this. This is specially written for that wiki on Fandom. So these files need to be coded for Miraheze, and there aren't many that are able to do that. The one I knew isn't even active anymore
[12:43:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> What did you want it to do exactly?
[12:43:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> Otherwise we could see to find an equivalent elsewhere
[12:44:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq, replying to rodejong> unfortunately that seems the case, thank you I'm immensely grateful for you taking the time in trying to help me
[12:44:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq, replying to rodejong> I just wanted an infobox that was built in a similar way
[12:45:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329431275030974544/Screenshot_2025-01-16_at_4.45.10_AM.png?ex=678a50db&is=6788ff5b&hm=8c822bf1a441492a2cdd1ae91c2230a06734c12a7da12bfec8cda73e2269d88e&
[12:46:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> thats what the team template thing was for
[12:46:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> The best idea is portable infobox and your own coding i  think
[12:46:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> Please read [[Infoboxes]] to get more insight how they work. Portable Infoboxes aren't my forté but other @MediaWiki Support Volunteers might be able to help you set up a specific box for you
[12:46:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> <https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Infoboxes>
[12:47:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> that's just portable infobox w/ collapsible elements
[12:48:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> how would i include those collapsible elements
[12:48:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> portable infobox is the kind you posted about yesterday
[12:48:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> can you please link Fandom page?
[12:48:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> [1/2] i got the infobox working but with the amount of information itd be kinda nicer to have the collapsible elemtns
[12:48:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329432193038028831/Screenshot_2025-01-16_at_4.47.44_AM.png?ex=678a51b6&is=67890036&hm=86618e610ae8127287810a3800b356f4afbca29a45a7d451241cef5c1e2a980e&
[12:49:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq, replying to theoneandonlylegroom> to the one i was trying to copy or mine?
[12:49:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:PortableInfobox
[12:49:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> wut wait
[12:49:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> pls
[12:51:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to Wiki-Bot#2998> [1/3] please check this guide @7seasofq 
[12:51:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to Wiki-Bot#2998> [2/3] it explains some stuff AND it has a link to deep coding guide on Fandom, which has how to collapse part
[12:51:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to Wiki-Bot#2998> [3/3] OR you can check source of template on Fandom, from that Fantastic Four article you showed
[12:51:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> [1/2] ahhhhhhhhh
[12:51:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329432830090023012/image.png?ex=678a524e&is=678900ce&hm=3876aefa214bdb3d55a754feaee42a88484eca677093bc48c12f4356cade75f5&
[12:51:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> i can maybe make this look better but i got work 💀
[12:51:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to prabhasxd> Nice
[12:52:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq, replying to theoneandonlylegroom> https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Fantastic_Four_(Earth-616)?veaction=editsource
[12:54:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked, replying to prabhasxd> it is not "the only wiki"
[12:54:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> because i checked through the code earlier and it doesn't seem to have any code that would make the sections collapse, which is why i thought itd be easier to just copy the whole template but we know how that went 😭
[12:56:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> Fandom doesn't even let you to see the source code w/o editing, wow
[12:56:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> gotta fuck w/ URL
[12:56:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [1/26] Fantastic Four (Earth-616) (view source)
[12:56:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [2/26] Fantastic Four Vol 1 1 (view source)
[12:56:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [3/26] Marvel Database:Team Template (view source) (protected)
[12:56:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [4/26] Template:Cite (view source)
[12:56:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [5/26] Template:Cite web (view source)
[12:56:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [6/26] Template:Cl (view source) (protected)
[12:56:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [7/26] Template:R (view source) (protected)
[12:56:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [8/26] Template:WP (view source)
[12:56:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [9/26] Template:Wc (view source)
[12:56:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [10/26] Module:Arguments (view source)
[12:56:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [11/26] Module:C (view source) (protected)
[12:56:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [12/26] Module:Date (view source) (protected)
[12:56:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [13/26] Module:Design (view source) (protected)
[12:56:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [14/26] Module:Disambiguation/Dimensions (view source)
[12:56:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [15/26] Module:Disambiguation/Realities (view source)
[12:56:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [16/26] Module:HF (view source) (protected)
[12:56:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [17/26] Module:Month/data (view source)
[12:56:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [18/26] Module:PageType (view source) (protected)
[12:56:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [19/26] Module:Quote (view source) (protected)
[12:56:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [20/26] Module:Reality (view source) (protected)
[12:56:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [21/26] Module:StaffCorrection (view source) (protected)
[12:56:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [22/26] Module:StaffCorrection/data (view source)
[12:56:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [23/26] Module:StaffCorrection/exceptions (view source)
[12:56:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [24/26] Module:StaffCorrection/pseudonyms (view source)
[12:56:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [25/26] Module:StandardizedName (view source) (protected)
[12:56:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> [26/26] Module:Team Template (view source) (protected)
[12:56:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> wait wait
[12:56:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to 7seasofq> Do you even have them all?
[12:57:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to 7seasofq> Anything inside this will be collapsible <group collapse="open"> /group
[12:57:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> okay, yeah, this is not a fucking portable infobox
[12:57:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> god, why
[12:57:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq, replying to rodejong> all those that you just sent, no
[12:57:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> oh
[12:57:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> wait, no one tell me it wasn't portable
[12:57:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> 👀
[12:58:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> I thought so, now my phone is dying lol
[12:58:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> alright
[12:59:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Marvel_Database:Team_Template?action=edit Looks like it uses PI ?
[12:59:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> ok au can't do shit, sorry
[12:59:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq, replying to max20091> [1/2] where would I put this in the case of this infobox
[12:59:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq, replying to max20091> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329434963107647612/Screenshot_2025-01-16_at_4.59.23_AM.png?ex=678a544a&is=678902ca&hm=4e5e691b6cd52eed7248462eee6bec0451e054839b03d0ea09e1a0e9967726f3&
[13:00:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> would i put it above or under the header?
[13:02:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to 7seasofq> [1/6] For example you want to make "Other Aliases" collapsible, you put the collapse code around the <data source="aliases">
[13:02:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to 7seasofq> [2/6] <group collapse="open">
[13:02:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to 7seasofq> [3/6] <data source="aliases">
[13:02:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to 7seasofq> [4/6] <label>Other Aliases/label
[13:02:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to 7seasofq> [5/6] /data
[13:02:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to 7seasofq> [6/6] /group
[13:06:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> I see you have the basic information header and you want that thing collapsed?
[13:06:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> Wait I just realised the themetoggle dropdown aint there for mobile 💀
[13:06:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> an extreme thank you to everyone involved in helping, this is my second day doing this, i had no idea the marvel wiki infobox was so complicated
[13:06:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> Oh it's there, it's so small
[13:08:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq, replying to max20091> [1/2] like this right? i think i got it working
[13:08:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq, replying to max20091> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329437163925930045/Screen_Recording_2025-01-16_at_5.07.51_AM.mov?ex=678a5657&is=678904d7&hm=81038ea8e5e521f54d91af715ac753c51c5eac5624ad0a4dc249ff09fde275af&
[13:11:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> yes
[13:12:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> tyty
[13:12:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to rodejong> That just standard portable infobox slap with lua code
[13:13:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> lua code is for "automation"
[13:14:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> overcomplication
[13:21:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq, replying to max20091> Wait so how would this work since its a specific section under a header
[13:22:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to 7seasofq> No idea. Not sure if header is required for collapsible group
[13:22:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> [1/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329440619298291865/Screenshot_2025-01-16_at_5.21.46_AM.png?ex=678a598f&is=6789080f&hm=faad62e402ec15963cc572ca3689d6a0a72d859b89ea0f832c7f0954d2d9b180&
[13:22:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329440619671715934/Screenshot_2025-01-16_at_5.22.07_AM.png?ex=678a598f&is=6789080f&hm=eaa8f963d8d8bb465947e6930698f7a44a86c64f44db584e9b718225acc1aa54&
[13:22:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> So header is required, I forgot that part
[13:25:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow> tbh, i like miraheze more for its skins and not because it has no ads
[13:25:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> yea the ads on fandom are really annoying especially on mobile
[13:26:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow> i think you misunderstood what i said
[13:27:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> ah yes it seems i did
[13:27:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> read too quickly
[13:27:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> Fandom skin is optimized around ads, not for reading
[13:27:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow> lol
[13:28:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> Cosmos/Oasis is really not a bad skin, especially w/o ads
[13:29:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> I liked Wikia because layout reminded me of usual web site, I really disliked the usual monobook/vector style
[13:32:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow> [1/2] i'm happy they're planning to change ads this year though
[13:32:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329443205892276337/Screenshot_20241129-200855.png?ex=678a5bf8&is=67890a78&hm=77c49de1c8976b081e6937afc6e2ba4d786509340f3b328563db7823e163e1f0&
[13:33:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked, replying to 7seasofq> is his other alias the guardian perchance?
[13:34:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to bartomelow> removal? this can't be real
[13:34:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <7seasofq> is there a guide how to apply css to portable infoboxes
[13:34:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> "ad removal" means removing 2 small ads for 1 giant ad
[13:35:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> that I would expect
[13:35:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gummiel> Even if fandom removed half their ads, (which I highly doubt they ever would), it would still be unusable
[13:36:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gummiel, replying to max20091> Or they might create some sort of premium subscription to remove ads maybe
[13:37:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to gummiel> Well, YouTube premium even have ads so I don't think Fandoom can
[13:38:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> I'd be surprised if paying to remove fandom ads had much profitability
[13:38:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> extremely few people want ads gone and also are willing to pay even nominal fees, and at this point, both I consider security problems
[13:38:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow> oooo pay fandom premium oooo
[13:38:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> it will take some innovation
[13:39:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> i just want ads in main page on fandom wikis gone
[13:39:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> fandom doesn't need payment details etc and ads are a pretty reliable source for malware so
[13:43:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to bartomelow> lets you to adopt wikis right away?
[13:45:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> [1/6] probably 
[13:45:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> [2/6] - higher priority support/adoption requests
[13:45:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> [3/6] - more customizations such as discussions and namespaces
[13:45:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> [4/6] - removal of ads
[13:45:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> [5/6] - customization of side buttons
[13:45:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> [6/6] they'll probably paywall the most suggested features
[13:45:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to 7seasofq> [1/4] CSS is something that dictates visual look of stuff on a web page
[13:45:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to 7seasofq> [2/4] if you mean you want to change the look of infobox then
[13:45:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to 7seasofq> [3/4] <https://community.fandom.com/wiki/Help:Infoboxes/CSS>
[13:45:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to 7seasofq> [4/4] modifications go to MediaWiki:Common.css page
[13:46:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to snowstacked> Logged in account have reduced ads (and none if you are former Gamepedia Pro)
[14:07:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to bartomelow> this ain't gonna convince wikis to stay lol
[14:11:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked, replying to max20091> "reduced" is just 2 ads gone
[14:11:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> i want them all to disappear
[14:11:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> how am i supposed to navigate a main page if i have to scroll through ads
[14:12:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> there's ads?
[14:13:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> Oh I'm dumb
[14:13:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kaerralind> uBlock origin works wonders on fandom ads.
[14:13:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gummiel> On fandom yes, which is what people are talking about ATM, there are tons of ads, Miraheze have 0 ads though
[14:13:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> they're talking about fandom
[14:13:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> I use three ad blockers to remove all
[14:13:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173, replying to gummiel> the complexity is the only thing I sorta dislike about Miraheze
[14:14:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> but that's a me thing
[14:14:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kaerralind> Same honestly, Bird
[14:14:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> uBlock Origin rules them all
[14:14:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> and once I figure it out it's gonna be real good
[14:14:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> (god i hate templates)
[14:14:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked, replying to dullbird173> yeah you just gotta get used to it
[14:14:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> and redirect to Fandoom alternative frontend is for removing all their "ads-related" stuff
[14:14:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> I use Ublock Oringin + AdBlock + Adblock Plus all for chrome  to block all ads
[14:15:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kaerralind> I need to get google calendar to work (found a wikimedia widget but idk what I'm doing), Need to figure out how to make a navbar for ease of navigation, and then I need to fix my infoboxes to (hopefully) look like my fandom's boxes or I'm going to go insane. XD
[14:16:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gummiel> The complexity, is unfortunately a sideeffect, that is basically inevitable, when you get as much freedom to do what you want, as MH gives you
[14:16:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> add in Brave and you will never see ads for your life
[14:16:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> Use only uBlock Origin (and Indie Wiki Buddy for true no ads Fandoom)
[14:16:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kaerralind> I think one of the biggest things that trips me up is the lack of a "create page" button. 🧍
[14:16:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> uhh...
[14:16:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> does he know?
[14:16:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> iirc there's an extension for that
[14:17:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> + input box
[14:17:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> yess there is
[14:17:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> But none of the guides make sense
[14:17:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> + Cosmos skin offers a button
[14:17:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> at this point I'm just waiting for the wiki to gain some traction and whoever comes by to do the renovation for me before trying to install extensions
[14:17:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kaerralind> :story_hide:
[14:17:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> i'm mostly just writing lore and stuff
[14:20:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> What are farm operators
[14:22:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> layered adblock like this is not necessarily more effective, instead extensions may fight with each other. UBO is by far the most effective of the list although that is why straight chrome (which should be avoided anyway) has gone out of its way to neuter them.
[14:22:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls, replying to dullbird173> If Brave is another broswer, I need chrome for a add onj I used
[14:22:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> personally I have had maybe one ad get through in years with ubo
[14:22:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> I THINK it transfers extensions like Opera with Chrome
[14:22:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> if you really want good blocking that just nukes everything, consider noscript, which is a pain in the ass but is very effective
[14:23:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> brave should be completely compatible with standard chrome extensions
[14:23:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls, replying to dullbird173> Hmm
[14:23:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> just curious, is there a date for the mediawiki update to 1.43
[14:23:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> firefox is where content blocking is king period, no chrome base browser is great for that
[14:23:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173, replying to dullbird173> Please help me
[14:23:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> what does that mean
[14:23:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls, replying to dullbird173> Syadmins maybe? The volunteers?
[14:23:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> people who work on farms is the only answer I can think of
[14:24:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> I was do7hgnthe ManageWiki thing when it said that only farm operators can fill out grey boxess
[14:24:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> like ain't i the Bureaucrat
[14:24:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> ok, that makes sense
[14:24:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> what are Farm Operators?
[14:24:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> those are extensions that have technical or security considerations
[14:24:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to snowstacked> Soon™️
[14:24:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> AH, the password manager is able to be used on fireFox as well
[14:24:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173, replying to raidarr> oh
[14:25:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> you can request greyed out extensions be enabled on [[SR/RC]]
[14:25:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> <https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/SR/RC>
[14:25:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> good bot
[14:25:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> What one did you want to use?
[14:25:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> eh not right now
[14:25:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> are you using built in password manager or an external one like keypassxc or bitwarden
[14:25:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> i have like 7 miraheze tabs open
[14:25:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> because what are these guides
[14:26:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> built in is a bad idea and the latter two I mentioned are market leaders as far as I know of
[14:26:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> well I mean
[14:26:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173, replying to raidarr> They're market leaders for a reason
[14:26:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> oh I stand behind both of them
[14:26:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> and would never ever use built in
[14:27:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> nor save addresses for that matter, and I wouldn't trust the save form history one either however tempting the convenience might be
[14:27:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority, replying to gummiel> Yeah, but you are trading advertisements which can be silenced with an ad blocker for constantly being begged to donate and having large banners slapped in your face which are harder to hide
[14:27:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> Arguably one is a better choice than the other 🤷‍♀️
[14:27:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> The reason why people use bitwarden is because even if the data is stolen, they can't access username or password
[14:27:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> being begged for donations isn't too great and I wouldn't consider the miraheze model a great business model by any means
[14:27:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> volunteer cohesion and stability as another matter entirely
[14:28:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> but they're non profit and run by the community iirc
[14:28:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> there's going to have to be something because if everyone blocks ads then every platform needs to beg or paywall and that's going to be another suite of problems
[14:28:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> all I want is ads that aren't stalkers and malware but I doubt the industry is gonna do that
[14:30:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to dullbird173> Bitwarden is for profit, but the developer is human so no data are cracked
[14:31:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> being self hostable is a nice touch
[14:31:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> if you want fully open, keepassxc to the rescue
[14:32:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173, replying to max20091> i meant Miraheze but I'm not really understanding this conversation so I'm gonna leave the room
[14:32:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> oh
[14:32:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> then indeed MH is non-profit
[14:32:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> indeed
[14:32:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gummiel> It does seems at this point there is like 2-3 tangentially connected at best discussions going on at this point xD
[14:32:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr, replying to dullbird173> probably because there's two concurrent conversations which is partially my fault
[14:33:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> password managers and miraheze and ads and browsers (last two are still pretty recent)
[14:33:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> miraheze may as well take point and the others head off to offtopic
[14:33:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> i wish there was like a good in between
[14:33:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> Miraheze complexity and fandom easy
[14:33:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> the in between is at the mercy of the community
[14:34:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> non techies developing or supporting what they can and most essentially programmers who can build in conveniences
[14:34:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gummiel> You could probably argue something like wiki.gg being in between I think?
[14:34:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> Miraheze complexity isn't that much, it's just that the community isn't as big as fandom and most communities are separated
[14:34:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> it's more of an orange in an apple batch
[14:34:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority, replying to gummiel> You could argue it but I'd argue strongly against you
[14:34:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> MediaWiki is such a curse if you want Wikipedia style wikis but then advanced source coding
[14:35:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> They have a lot of the same restrictions as Fandom; no skin changes, limited extensions, user rights are more restricted et al
[14:35:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> miraheze complexity is the lack of guidance/safety net, it's rather like linux. You can build up virtually however you want but you have a lot of options and there is no one way to do it. Fandom is great at giving you a thing and telling you how to use it their way.
[14:35:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> Miraheze needs a better net to offer sane defaults for wikis to not have to think too much, but also allowing people who want flexibility to just go ahead and do that
[14:35:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> and the biggest thing I think is the infoboxes problem
[14:35:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> THIS
[14:35:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> JUST MAKE IT AN INSER
[14:36:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> that I think can be approached by having decent native documentation + a preload of common/usable templates, which could also be burnt down or replaced easily if people want something else.
[14:36:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gummiel, replying to originalauthority> but they don't have the same amount of insane, and unrelate ad spam that fandom does
[14:36:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> There isn't a guide to operate portable infoboxes and that's how most newbies on Miraheze feels "too complicated"
[14:36:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> I dream of it being a toggle on the wiki request form: check a box and you get portableinfoboxes, that sort of thing
[14:36:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> ^I mean the extension
[14:36:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority, replying to gummiel> Don't they? You're trading a top ad for ads at the side of the content 🤷‍♀️
[14:36:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> + a little guide for how to use it
[14:37:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> (This was mostly what my default loadout was trying to achieve but then the createwiki rewrite happened and fucked the system even more)
[14:38:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> miraheze is old iirc and it will attract some more older people (who are much better as this type of coding) while fandom is just the newbie wiki site imhp
[14:38:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> it's not that miraheze is old, it's just default and not blitzed
[14:38:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> If you wished to have no ads and self control and know how self hosting is a choice
[14:38:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> my computer is a potato it would explode
[14:38:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> I have wondered if there should be more focus on the different skins available so people's impression is not that it's all just wikipedias or bland
[14:39:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> Miraheze is is good if you can deal with the "please donate banners" though
[14:39:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gummiel, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> That is gonna add even more complexity than MH though.
[14:39:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <worldcreator67, replying to max20091> Portable Infoboxes aren't that hard to use
[14:39:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.guardianx., replying to dullbird173> Coding? Man I feel like I need to update my resume then after messing with my wiki LOL
[14:39:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173, replying to .guardianx.> CSS Google Code
[14:39:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> source coding is sorta like it
[14:39:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> but more features
[14:39:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls, replying to gummiel> Miraheze is not that conplex if you can read guides
[14:39:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> thing is there's 7 billion guides
[14:40:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> frind one and follow it?
[14:40:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> and then you need 10 more ones to just understand it
[14:40:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <worldcreator67, replying to dullbird173> Well that's debatable
[14:40:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> but this is a newbie opinion
[14:40:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> imo the simplest route is probably to have portableinfoboxes be a preloadable option, have a neat guide to refer to, bake that into the request form, and that should address a lot of the issue. While offering resources for something else, and a styling alternative to make it look like the wikipedia version because I know a lot of people don't like the default looks.
[14:40:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> so take it with a grain of an atom
[14:40:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> IDK, I managed to get chatGPT to make me a working infobox
[14:40:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> random newbie input is the best input we can have tbh, it starkly lays out things that are missing, wrong, or which we poorly explain and present
[14:41:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gummiel, replying to .guardianx.> tbf, wiki "coding", isn't true coding, though it can look like it sometimes, unless you get into creating Lua modules.
[14:41:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> i can't figure out templates
[14:41:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to dullbird173> [1/2] If you use essential extensions, you only need a few guides.
[14:41:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to dullbird173> [2/2] I'm from Fandom and my codes back then only relies on basic extension, that's why I'm moving my whole wiki to MH so fast.
[14:41:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls, replying to dullbird173> Infobox is a type of infbox
[14:41:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.guardianx., replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> I hesitate to say it because everyone and their brother has "Feelings" about AI but oh wow is it nice to ask all my OCD questions to a thing that can't sigh at me LOL
[14:41:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> hence why
[14:41:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr, replying to dullbird173> general question, did you see the mediawiki documentation link and is that the area that's most overwhelming?
[14:42:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173, replying to raidarr> yeah i saw the templates page and was like "why is this 20 paragraphs"
[14:42:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> it's a big index with a lot of stuff, if the answer is yes that makes sense to me - I'm just wondering how you got into the rabbit hole and where it got lost
[14:42:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> ok so throwing newbies straight into mediawiki documentation is not our brightest idea
[14:42:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> It should be noted that MediaWiki.org is intentionally complex
[14:42:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> a compromise might be a condensed version on meta which refers to the more thorough mediawiki.org version for people who want all the ins and outs
[14:42:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> Its aimed at developers, not regular wiki users
[14:42:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> i got here because two other minor fandoms I was in used it and I had a pretty bad experience with fandom
[14:43:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> but now here is the rub, we know what is needed, but now we need people who can commit time to make it so
[14:43:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to raidarr> [1/2] Throwing newbies to mediawiki documentation is fine.
[14:43:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to raidarr> [2/2] I see a big problem that the documentation is acting like they are complex when in the reality you use like only a few function.
[14:43:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> most volunteers are unfortunately stacked up on things to do and how their time is used
[14:44:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> ehh idc by the point that I figure out how it works lore would've switched 7 times
[14:44:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> so I'm just gonna leave it blank and boring for now
[14:44:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <worldcreator67, replying to max20091> Absolutely. You don’t really end up using that much in the end.
[14:44:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr, replying to max20091> you are technically disposed in a way where it is not overwhelming to you, it is not wise to assume this is the case for everyone, especially when a lot of the people we get come out of fandom's much more guided experience. Just because you don't need a lot of it doesn't mean it's a good idea to shove it all in a new user's face upfront
[14:45:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gummiel, replying to max20091> not sure what you mean with "the documentation is acting like they are complex" the documentation IS complex, because it meant to document everything it can, but most people don't need most of it
[14:45:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> new people do not have the experience to discern which is needed and which is not, the result is an overwhelming page they need to chunk through and tiresomely narrow down
[14:45:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173, replying to raidarr> I still don't understand what half of the stuff in Special:ManageWiki (the big one) mean
[14:45:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> i did read
[14:46:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> but then like 'does that mean that it's x or y'
[14:47:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <worldcreator67> When it came to making my wiki, the only prior experience I had is some edits on other wikis and a semester of learning CSS
[14:47:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr, replying to dullbird173> you read the [[ManageWiki]] guide and this was the thought on seeing it? just to clarify
[14:47:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> <https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/ManageWiki>
[14:47:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> Do we need "Portable Infoboxes for Dummies: A simple guide to portable infoboxes"
[14:47:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> or the instructions are poor in managewiki itself
[14:48:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> that would help, as the best resources for this right now are just linking to fandom
[14:48:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> [1/2] Yea, I mean this.
[14:48:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> [2/2] And the extension page just point to Fandom hence why it is complex.
[14:48:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> I would suggest such a guide be written in simple terms, in a way ESL people can understand
[14:49:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173, replying to raidarr> there's a guide for that? oh my stupid
[14:49:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gummiel, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> I mean that is sort of what [[Infoboxes]] is? (while also trying to explain basicaly why PI is the best type of infobox
[14:49:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> <https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Infoboxes>
[14:49:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr, replying to dullbird173> you're not stupid, we failed by not making this more obvious
[14:49:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> I am taking notes of this discussion as pain points for newer user entry
[14:49:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> democracy is either the best thing ever or a curse
[14:49:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> but it's better than a dev dictatorship where we can't revolt
[14:49:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> so idk
[14:50:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr, replying to gummiel> this guide is very sprawling and not quite focused enough to do what a dedicated PI guide should do I think
[14:50:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> it is better than the previous void, but more can be done
[14:51:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gummiel> Fair (and tbh, haven't read it thoroughly I guess, mostly skimmed it a bit, since it was created quite a while later than when I joined anyway)
[14:52:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> it is a very good guide for what it does
[14:52:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> alas it is not a silver bullet for the miraheze infobox problem
[14:53:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> in terms of writing it is also more essay like, which is a start (and I do it often) but there is room to grow
[14:53:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gummiel> but yeah in general, there is a lot of things that could be better, but all those things needs people to make them better, and that always been the thing that MH has lacked in xD
[14:54:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> [1/3] About the documentation page:
[14:54:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> [2/3] 1. The guides shouldn't link to Fandoom in the first place.
[14:54:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> [3/3] 2. Have a simple guide explain how basic stuff works, then teach them more complex things instead of giving them an overwhelming textwall.
[14:54:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> visual editors bros stay losing
[14:54:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> yes, that is the other half of the issue
[14:54:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> it is not hard to identify the problems, but then people need to work on the solutions
[14:54:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> every guide in existence is source editing
[14:54:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173, replying to raidarr> Then it's just tumbleweed
[14:55:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> VE can be unreliable to the point that people in time tend to gravitate towards source and it's probably good to familiarize with source sooner than later
[14:55:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to dullbird173> On Fandoom, you also need source editing for more complex part. There's no way you can escape source edit
[14:55:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> that's one of the problems that needs to be fixed upstream
[14:55:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> visual just ain't there yet
[14:56:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> I can go to some extent on tackling problems and also monitoring them, but I have always been very unfocused and scattered, so expect few of these solutions to actually be raidarr solutions
[14:56:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> which goes to the need of more people for things
[14:56:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> Like a throw-out number: 2/3 of Miraheze are fandom or Visual Editor migrants
[14:56:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> since several people are watching, what would it take to get involved in meta documentation building, or that sort of thing on a casual basis
[14:56:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> coordination, rewards, something else
[14:56:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> I've been here for a month tops but I feel like the features all gravitate towards experienced people
[14:57:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> but that is a MediaWiki thing in general
[14:57:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> so I can't argue
[14:57:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> maybe co-op idk, miraheze people lend your wiki a hand and you maybe check out meta and give it a few patchups - I'm wondering what it would take to get people interested
[14:58:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> [1/2] Yea, and Fandoom is also the same, just fancier than MH.
[14:58:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> [2/2] Building a wiki is always involving source edit unless a wiki don't rely on any special extension.
[14:58:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> simplicity and convenience is what usually get 90% of people on board in the first place
[14:58:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> that's one of the reason imho Fandom is so popular
[14:58:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> ^
[14:59:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> there's also an 'established' status
[14:59:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> I swear I cannot name on major wiki on Miraheze
[14:59:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> fandom has the advantage of paying people to develop these things; miraheze must leverage its community as far as possible to make progress
[14:59:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> meanwhile Fandom has what? 99% of wikis in history
[14:59:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> so that's the other part of what I'm asking - what would it take to get people more into meta development, or general miraheze development
[14:59:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> people flock to wherever people already are
[14:59:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> to be part of the platform, not just their own wiki
[15:00:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to dullbird173> About this part: They are usually using custom domain so no wonder why you don't see them in MH
[15:00:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> many of the big ones do that, yes
[15:00:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> like i know that taco place down the street might be good or bad, but i know taco bell is always decent
[15:00:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> miraheze branding is generally quite subtle and stacked at the bottom of the page
[15:00:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> I hate VE and simer such methiods myself
[15:00:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> That's basically the Fandom/Miraheze problem
[15:00:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173, replying to max20091> do you have to run the custom domain yourself or is that included for free?
[15:01:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to dullbird173> Buy your own domain, and hand the "key" to MH volunteer and they will do the rest
[15:01:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> my first edit on Wikia was in VE, then I saw switch editor button and never looked back at VE ever again
[15:01:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> source/wikitext is basically markdown
[15:01:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> there are ideas of miraheze itself offering (paid/reseller) domains, would that sort of thing be of interest
[15:02:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> I don't think it could be any cheaper though
[15:02:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> for newbies like me all of those " '''' " and " ===== " across the screen just makes my brain explode
[15:02:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> really it would come down to a way to support the platform
[15:02:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> VE also loves to mess up formatting
[15:02:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> that's why I don't really like Source
[15:02:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> this year will mark 10 year since I got into wikis and these issues are still not fixed
[15:02:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> unless visualeditor itself improves (it's an open project to contribute to also), I'm afraid not a lot can be done on that
[15:03:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173, replying to raidarr> but donations cap at $10.000 iirc
[15:03:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to dullbird173> syntax highlight
[15:03:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> this would be a split system from donations I'd think
[15:03:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> I started with source myself. Started on Our  Darker Purpose Wiki on FANDOM myself
[15:03:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> on Fandom it's default, on Miraheze requires clicking the marker button once
[15:03:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> I might add stuff like that to the commitments rfc
[15:05:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> Wikidot might be a good alternative iirc
[15:05:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> it's hard to make any coding w/o syntax highlight
[15:05:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> because it allows for more stuff than just boring Wikipedia
[15:05:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> but then IDK
[15:05:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to dullbird173> that's a funny joke you got here
[15:06:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [1/3] a) it's completely different wiki engine 
[15:06:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [2/3] b) it's barely maintained 
[15:06:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [3/3] c) it's tied to single hosting of the same name
[15:06:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> i know but I'm specifically saying for the more fancy wikis
[15:07:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> look at pizzatower.wiki
[15:07:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> it's Miraheze
[15:08:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> there's no easy way for fancy, gotta know what you are aiming for and doing
[15:08:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> I'M SORRY WHAT
[15:08:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> that's Miraheze??
[15:08:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> or you are at marcy of restrictions for easyness
[15:08:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to dullbird173> yup
[15:09:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to dullbird173> Yea, if you didn't look at the bottom of a wiki, you will never know what they use
[15:09:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> oh you're the volunteer guy
[15:09:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> well, technically everyone in here is a volunteer
[15:09:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> I'm just helping a tiny bit over there
[15:10:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> former Fandom and new admins made this
[15:10:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> do most other wiki communites agree that fandom sucks
[15:10:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> I mostly helped when they were forking from Fandom
[15:10:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> even fandom hates itself atp
[15:11:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> wiki.gg is operated by the former Gamepedia (now Fandom) staffs
[15:11:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> but i'd take complexity over ads anyday of the millennium
[15:11:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> basically Gamepedia 2
[15:11:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> god bless the devs
[15:12:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> I think it is rather hard to make a nice template without Soruce Editing
[15:12:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> oh, absolutely
[15:12:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> unless a template is a single word/sentence/tiny image
[15:13:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> i will for sure learn Source Editing someday
[15:13:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> But not today
[15:13:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [1/3] [[mw:Help:Formatting]]
[15:13:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [2/3] [[mw:Help:Links]]
[15:13:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [3/3] baby steps here
[15:13:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> [1/2] <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Formatting>
[15:13:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> [2/2] <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Links>
[15:13:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> i cannot stand how source editing looks
[15:13:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> wikidot is a disaster tbh
[15:13:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> [1/2] Template with source coding = moving the problem out of regular editor's experience.
[15:13:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> [2/2] There should be someone handle this difficulty task so other users don't have to.
[15:14:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> no matter the scale or the use case
[15:14:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> wikidot has been on its last leg for a decade now
[15:14:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> The only know big wiki from wikidot is SCP
[15:14:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> ^at least what I know
[15:14:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> D&D too iirc
[15:14:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> didn't they get hacked a year ago?
[15:15:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to agentisai> they blocked Russian and Belarusian IPs after that yeah
[15:15:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> If WikiDot shut down, well, tbh maybe Miraheze gets more users
[15:15:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> heh
[15:15:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> or what it DDOS
[15:15:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> they'll have to convert to MediaWiki, don't forget
[15:16:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> No escape from MW
[15:16:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> unless Wikidot will magically decide to go open source
[15:16:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> and let others host their own Wikidot wikis
[15:16:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> At least time MediaWiki stuff is probly find replacable
[15:16:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> Tmeplates, not so much
[15:17:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> Would be nice to see WIkiDot OS
[15:17:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> Yea, the biggest problem with MW is finding someone to handle template and code stuff
[15:18:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> I relized if you want AI to do coding, it is posable (for both MediaWiki templates and other code) (seems like it works better if you have code to feed to it) if you can prompt it well
[15:18:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> what is nowiki and markups
[15:19:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> nowiki renders wikitext and stuff inside non functional
[15:19:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> <nowiki> /nowiki means code into the tags not use wiki code basicly
[15:19:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> usually used for documentation purposes or pesky symbols
[15:19:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> what
[15:19:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls, replying to theoneandonlylegroom> I use it for displaying CSS markup and HTML code and stuff
[15:19:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> like the need of `*` at the beginning of new line
[15:20:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> oh
[15:20:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> so basically it removes the code function
[15:20:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> [1/2] AI can handle coding, but you will need an AI specifically handle that stuffs.
[15:20:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> [2/2] I can't find a good local AI that can code wikitext.
[15:20:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [1/4] basically 
[15:20:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [2/4] * this
[15:20:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [3/4] versus 
[15:20:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [4/4] `*` this
[15:20:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> OH....
[15:20:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> Alright
[15:20:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> I think I'm gonna use a mix of Visual and then Source for the complex stuff for now
[15:20:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> in first case * is wiki text, in the beginning creates bullet list
[15:21:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> in second w/ nowiki it becomes just *
[15:21:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> but is there a guide for advanced editing
[15:21:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> just asking because there is no way I am reaching that level anytime soon
[15:21:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> as in like cool lookin boxes and colors
[15:21:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> I mean, you look at basics first
[15:22:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to dullbird173> that's HTML
[15:22:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> basics web stuff
[15:22:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls, replying to max20091> I got a few MediaWiki scripts (even a oddly elegent one) out of ChatGPT (an old verson) and a oddly elegent infobox from it as well
[15:22:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> is HMTL CSS
[15:22:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> [1/2] anyone know how to fix the menu in the homepage from doing whatever this is
[15:22:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329470854945312808/image.png?ex=678a75b8&is=67892438&hm=c819276a0829516041fa9fe8f5fcc0bda6eba5d76675ff38a0f1cdf5e35e3811&
[15:22:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to dullbird173> no, these are different
[15:22:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> Or am I getting millennial stuff mixed up
[15:22:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> CSS is for the look
[15:23:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> HTML is the bones, CSS is the skin
[15:23:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [1/2] HTML are elements 
[15:23:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> [2/2] you style (prettify) elements w/ CSS
[15:23:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> ^
[15:23:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> Thinking about  that, does that mean JS is the organs?
[15:23:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> HTML and CSS is the inspect element things?
[15:23:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> yeah
[15:23:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> basically
[15:23:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> HTML your bones
[15:23:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> CSS your skin
[15:23:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> JS your organs
[15:23:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> makes sense
[15:23:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> gah I wished every website on this Earth had Visual Editor for HTML and CSS
[15:24:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to dullbird173> not every website uses mediawiki. but i guess that would be epic
[15:24:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked, replying to prabhasxd> idk my only suggestion is to z index citizen-page-header
[15:25:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to snowstacked> doesnt it need a value
[15:25:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <snowstacked> yea
[15:25:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> [1/3] Well, what you type in wikitext is getting converted to HTML.
[15:25:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> [2/3] To change style of HTML page, you need CSS.
[15:25:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <max20091> [3/3] JS is for handling stuffs that wikitext or CSS can't.
[15:26:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> me figuring out what value
[15:31:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kaerralind> [1/6] To jump into the fandom/Miraheze discussion:
[15:31:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kaerralind> [2/6] Fandom's VE is nice until you need more complex stuff inside the SE (already stated), so I have to agree with this one. I use a mix of both where I need it.
[15:31:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kaerralind> [3/6] Right now, it is easier to edit a fandom wiki because that's where I'm comfortable, and trying to get everything to work on Mira has been a struggle. I miss the cute infoboxes I had over on Fandom, but I also really enjoy how neat things look with them all broken. But I also know that's an issue with importing templates and whatnot directly from fandom, and I haven't messed with
[15:31:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kaerralind> [4/6]  the CSS too much. 
[15:31:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kaerralind> [5/6] The point is, Miraheze has a big learning curve, unlike fandom.
[15:31:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kaerralind> [6/6] Do I wish Miraheze was a little more beginner user friendly? Yes, absolutely, but it's a new platform, and every new platform has a learning curve.
[15:35:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> @theoneandonlylegroom is it possible to make admin exclusive themes?
[15:37:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> Also, MediaWIki could be the brain
[15:39:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> Wikis can be simple, but they can become d__m complex if you want
[15:40:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to prabhasxd> nope, personal CSS is your only saver
[15:41:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to theoneandonlylegroom> Ahhh man
[15:41:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> Aight
[15:41:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> Honestly would be cool too have admin exclusive themes
[15:41:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> I did some personal tweaks to make my admin experience better
[15:42:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> I knew this guy on Fandom, codes lots of neat stuff now used on their Dev Wiki, but he always would make his personal CSS all grey and dull
[15:42:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> non distracting, I suppose
[15:45:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai, replying to kaerralind> [1/2] I suppose the issue with Miraheze is that it wasn’t originally intended to be user friendly. It was more of a service that tech savvy folks could use and Miraheze would operate like a farm, in the background. Now, with the influx of new users and wikis, that can no longer be the case since people look for initiative resources. Miraheze is no longer the techi
[15:45:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai, replying to kaerralind> [2/2] es corner but instead, an all-users place.
[15:46:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kaerralind> Ah. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
[15:46:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kaerralind> I really don't mind the learning curve. Makes me think a little harder. haha.
[15:48:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr, replying to agentisai> this chiefly being influenced by fandom doing indisputably effective work to glaze the techy portion of the experience and being the primary source of new users
[15:50:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> VE as a defualt add-on?
[15:51:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to agentisai> [1/2] That's why we need good people who can devellop templates, based on Fandom (Where most come from at the moment) and also Wikipedia, that are easy to use, and not complicated. 
[15:51:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to agentisai> [2/2] [[mh:dev:]] is under promoted, as it also lacks a lot of templates, modules and css/js.
[15:51:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> <https://dev.miraheze.org/wiki/>
[15:52:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> Iew No please 😄
[15:52:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> I think it is, isn't it?
[15:52:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> I haven't kept up
[15:52:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls, replying to rodejong> For former-FANDOM folk fitting finalaly
[15:53:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to raidarr> Not as far as I am aware of. You can enable it in your own preferences though
[15:53:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> [1/3] Former Fandom Folk
[15:53:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> [2/3] Coming to Miraheze Now
[15:53:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> [3/3] Finally Found Home
[16:00:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kaerralind> I like to think I found a new home. 😭
[16:03:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> Tbh I kinda like writing wiki related hakiu
[16:04:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> So, I think  maybe we need a simple "You just make a wiki? What do I  do next?" guide
[16:07:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> that is what the main page is supposed to do
[16:07:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> however, it needs to refer to existing resources to get into detail, and those resources range from absent to not quite up to speed, which would include the PI guide as well as default integration so people don't need to press buttons they shouldn't have to
[16:25:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theburningfirethatscorchessouls> I like the idea of a portable infobox + its add on being fedult
[16:42:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> I'd like it technically optional in the request form, but for ux perhaps it can be toggled on by default, and people who want to do something else can easily uncheck
[16:46:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> [1/2] Just a note that we can already enable extensions by default that can be disabled in ManageWiki; so it doesn't really seem sane to implement extensions like PI on the request form that are selected by default for someone to uncheck when they can do that in about 5 seconds after wiki creation if that's what they seen fit -- we can just enable PI by default. 
[16:46:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> [2/2] Notwithstanding that, sure, it would be useful for other extensions but we'd have to be pretty selective about which extensions are shown there to avoid a huge request form, and at that point, if we're just selecting ones that are quite popular why arent they enabled by default and can be disabled?
[16:46:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> Just my 0.2p
[16:50:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr, replying to originalauthority> [1/2] it would take substantially more presses to do this and the idea of it being an optional component in the request form is to compromise between sane defaults and cases where people are coming in wanting something else. PI is good to appeal to fandom exodus which is a large portion, but I don't think it is such a dominating portion we should be so 'opini
[16:50:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr, replying to originalauthority> [2/2] onated' as a platform as to build it in more default.
[16:50:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> realistically there are only a few extensions tops I would even consider with this
[16:51:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> that extended list might be certain highly popular skins to start off with like cosmos, timeless, we'd need proper data to suggest others; pi for infoboxes, I'm not sure what other extensions entail that level but shouldn't plainly be default pretty much no matter what like was decided for wikiseo
[16:51:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> I do prefer giving more options and trying to make their presentation bearable than just deciding and having a simpler form though which not everyone is going to agree with
[17:01:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <robkam, replying to theburningfirethatscorchessouls> That's already at https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/How-to_guides
[17:09:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> it is an faq-extension, which we need to do a better job building into the navigation flow of meta
[17:09:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> priority wise I'd actually focus on a simplified 'getting started with mediawiki' offering, tailored to fandom-type users, referring to mw documentation to get in full depth and optimized for miraheze use cases
[17:10:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> where mediawiki might split between devs and wiki admins perhaps our split is more the casual editor, the wiki sysop, advanced wiki operation (managewiki, phorge-involved things) and volunteering
[17:56:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.guardianx.> [1/8] Anyone know if there is a solution to SMW trimming "Duplicates" in results?
[17:56:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.guardianx.> [2/8] I'm pulling a list of goods from various pages and I just noticed that if 2 items have the same number in sequence, it will cut one of the values.
[17:56:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.guardianx.> [3/8] ```
[17:56:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.guardianx.> [4/8] page,"Has Item","Has Value"
[17:56:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.guardianx.> [5/8] "Emmett Grayson","Small Hide Pouch,Torch,Throwing Dagger,Caltrops,Lock Pick,Glowing Flask,Cotton Bandage","12,212,15,8,39,43"
[17:56:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.guardianx.> [6/8] "Thalbin Goldgrip","Small Hide Pouch,Leather Ring Purse,Hunting Satchel,Torch","39,209,2,347,43"
[17:56:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.guardianx.> [7/8] ```
[17:56:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.guardianx.> [8/8] My CSV for "Emmett Grayson" under has value SHOULD read: "12,212,212,15,8,39,43"
[17:59:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.guardianx.> Actually...let me see if that was my bad...LOL
[17:59:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.guardianx.> It may have not "Set" that value
[18:28:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tali64, replying to prabhasxd> `MediaWiki:Group-sysop.css`
[18:31:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> the more you know
[18:32:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> still won't tie to ThemeToggle though
[18:47:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <deviltown333> Would someone be able to help me create a family tree with the wiki template? i have all of the info needed but dont know how to imput it properly
[18:48:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.labster> Yeah, the family tree template is very special.
[18:49:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.labster, replying to deviltown333> You have this template imported to your wiki? https://dev.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:Tree_chart
[19:27:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <deviltown333, replying to .labster> [1/3] i think i have the wiki one
[19:27:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <deviltown333, replying to .labster> [2/3] so i can do that
[19:27:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <deviltown333, replying to .labster> [3/3] but the info itself is still complicated to imput
[19:31:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <randomizedkirbytree47> [1/8] I am confused about backlinks.  According to Special:WhatLinksHere, nothing links to the page [[mh:pandorastale:A Portrait From Space]]
[19:31:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <randomizedkirbytree47> [2/8] https://pandorastale.wiki/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/A_Portrait_From_Space
[19:31:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <randomizedkirbytree47> [3/8] That page likewise shows up on Special:LonelyPages:
[19:31:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <randomizedkirbytree47> [4/8] [[mh:pandorastale:Special:LonelyPages]]
[19:31:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <randomizedkirbytree47> [5/8] However, there is a link to it from this page:
[19:31:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <randomizedkirbytree47> [6/8] [[mh:pandorastale:Pandora's Tale]]
[19:31:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <randomizedkirbytree47> [7/8] The link has been there for a few weeks, so I don't think it's a caching issue.
[19:31:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <randomizedkirbytree47> [8/8] Is there something I'm not understanding about WhatLinksHere, or is this a bug?
[19:31:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> [1/3] <https://pandorastale.miraheze.org/wiki/A_Portrait_From_Space>
[19:31:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> [2/3] <https://pandorastale.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:LonelyPages>
[19:31:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> [3/3] <https://pandorastale.miraheze.org/wiki/Pandora's_Tale>
[19:34:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> It’s a bug which will likely be fixed until we upgrade to 1.43
[19:34:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> I suspect it has to do with page links migration
[19:40:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kingplaystation> [1/2] finally my footer looks good
[19:40:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kingplaystation> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329535709152940215/Screenshot_2025-01-17_at_01-39-38_Aceistan_Wiki.png?ex=678ab21e&is=6789609e&hm=4e3204b6cd7fd59dcd004980c682822766775de6b685b7c45d030c50fd147194&
[20:30:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob> Is there a way to force a page to display a certain “thumbnail”?
[20:46:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> [1/2] Huh
[20:46:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329552492618317864/image0.jpg?ex=678ac1c0&is=67897040&hm=fe0de2aeb709222560baa9f8f54eca175f7d7e43e08e807f75c7b91088e7c1c4&
[20:46:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Thanks MacFan
[20:51:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to the_mrbob> for links on other place or preview popups? w/ WikiSEO syntax
[20:52:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> `{{#seo: |image = ...}}` iirc
[20:52:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> check [[mw:Extension:WikiSEO]]
[20:52:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WikiSEO>
[20:56:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob, replying to theoneandonlylegroom> Am referring to when you search a page and it provides an image preview next to the name.
[20:57:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> I suspected it should work for that too
[20:58:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> these things kinda expect PageImages to provide the pic
[20:58:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mooncloud, replying to pixldev> What’s a flooder? :CerberHuh:
[20:58:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> also check Additional settings, think there's WikiSEO > PageImages override option
[20:58:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to mooncloud> It’s a utility right
[20:58:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Just grants the bot right
[20:58:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom, replying to mooncloud> it's a role given temporarily if there's a lot of changes
[20:59:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <theoneandonlylegroom> to not flood recent changes
[20:59:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> For if a not bot account needs to make a lot of edits semi auto
[20:59:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mooncloud> Ah
[21:12:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum> Not entirely sure how to give my thoughts on the proposal on meta so I'll just drop them here
[21:13:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum> I don't think adding AI to wiki approvals is a bad thing necessarily, but I disagree with the approach
[21:13:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tali64, replying to ruckerenum> You can use the comments section on each proposal
[21:13:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum, replying to tali64> Ah alright. Thank you
[21:13:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> that’ll be a curious read
[21:15:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <_arawynn> since I never did participate in such a thing - to add my vote, do I just edit the section I want it to have at?
[21:16:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> Yes and add either `{{Support}}`, `{{Oppose}}` or `{{Abstain}}`
[21:17:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <_arawynn> okay, thank you
[21:24:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> the key will be identifiying the issue of the approach
[21:24:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <betabbird> [1/2] Personally I am always really skeptical about generative AI being used for content validation. I will support it overall since the wiki creators seem to be in favor of it and the team seems to be handling this responsibly and ethically, but I should stress that further diving into generative AI has the potential to really push people away from the platform, and I hope that everyone
[21:24:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <betabbird> [2/2]  can approach this with a moderated and critical eye
[21:27:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> [1/2] Oh for sure. I think almost everyone on our team is skeptical of AI and we would’ve liked an alternative approach but we’ve tried those avenues and have failed and we’re at the point where we have people waiting for over a week for a response to their request which is untenable with over 300 requests in the queue. We don’t plan to implement anything further with AI other than this 
[21:27:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> [2/2] (imagine Fandom’s “quick AI answers” on all pages \:P)
[21:29:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kingplaystation, replying to agentisai> in modern use case, AI is just a gimmick pushed by big corps
[21:29:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> mhm, sadly
[21:29:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> not useful, just a cool “hey, look at us!” gimmick
[21:30:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kingplaystation> like why do i need ai in my OS?
[21:30:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kingplaystation> just to spy on me?
[21:30:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kingplaystation> yes i am looking at you
[21:30:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kingplaystation> Microsoft
[21:30:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <betabbird> [1/2] Yeah, Fandom-bashing aside, I don't want to lose focus of why my community decided to use this platform for our roleplay setting. I am in a community of artists but my research for my academic career is in neural nets, so I totally understand the paranoia in regards to opening the door on this tech.
[21:30:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <betabbird> [2/2] I think what is important is that AI should be helping us to solve problems, not replacing people who could solve them. Fandom didn't realize that and... Well, look at them now
[21:30:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum, replying to ruckerenum> [1/2] Completing my thought
[21:30:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum, replying to ruckerenum> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329563482848497674/Screenshot_20250116_163008_Firefox.jpg?ex=678acbfc&is=67897a7c&hm=983b512295bf29fdf8c77150a3abad96f0f759530cd042ea946f437006d2a80a&
[21:30:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum> Rephrased heavily
[21:30:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham, replying to betabbird> Thanks for your feedback, entirely aligned with my thoughts (as expressed on the RfC) and what I advocate for as a board member - AI should only be used when there's a clearly-defined function and benefit, narrowly and cost-effectively defined, not just to chase fads.
[21:31:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <betabbird> That too, as I understand it OpenAI as a company had been known to harvest data, do we have any way to guarantee safety of our intellectual properties?
[21:31:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kingplaystation, replying to betabbird> the name is ironic
[21:32:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <betabbird> Very
[21:32:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham, replying to ruckerenum> To add my two cents - we intentionally send very limited set information to OpenAI, the bare minimum needed for the request assessment to work.  We are also hoping to move to a self-hosted model once we can afford the hardware to make it a reality.
[21:32:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> I’m writing a reply right now
[21:32:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <betabbird> If I werent bogged in research I'd help with the homebrewed LLM
[21:32:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> Agent is best-positioned to give a clear answer on this one
[21:32:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> but tl;dr, like NotAracham said, limited data is sent to OpenAI and data sent isn’t used for training
[21:32:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kingplaystation> man atleast github student has more stuff than free azure AI
[21:33:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kingplaystation> hey i can learn more programming for free
[21:33:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum> I'll wait for agents comment before saying anything but thanks for clarifying
[21:33:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham, replying to betabbird> We have actually banned several overly-aggressive OpenAI scrapers (entirely unrelated to createwiki AI) from our platform
[21:34:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <betabbird, replying to agentisai> [1/2] I guess we have to trust OpenAI then to uphold their promises.
[21:34:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <betabbird, replying to agentisai> [2/2] My next question is: why OpenAI? I understand theyre a stopgap to a personalized implementation in the near future, but would it not be better to choose a different service?
[21:34:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> There’s not really any other comparable service and much less any privacy friendly services
[21:34:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <betabbird> Thanks for being direct and honest by the way, it's refreshing in this fucked-up world we live in
[21:36:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kingplaystation, replying to betabbird> is llama good though?
[21:36:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum, replying to betabbird> I can vouch that even without knowing what Miraheze is actually doing, OpenAI is significantly cheaper than the rest of the competition
[21:36:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum> Also most of those weird AI services are just gpt wrappers with a prompt
[21:37:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> Yeah, cost-wise we're looking at ~ 25 a month = 1000 wiki requests, for 300 a year
[21:37:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> (Or at least last I heard numbers)
[21:38:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kingplaystation, replying to ruckerenum> hmm i see
[21:38:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kingplaystation, replying to notaracham> not that expensive from the sound of it
[21:39:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham, replying to notaracham> A big reason I'd like to move to self-host - a startup cost yes, but cost savings is cost savings, we're a non-profit after all!
[21:40:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kingplaystation> ahh i tried self hosting once
[21:40:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kingplaystation> it was a laptop so energy wise pretty good
[21:41:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kingplaystation> if that was my other pc
[21:41:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mooncloud> Is it called createwikiAI?
[21:41:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum> Call it wikigpt
[21:41:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> regrettably the choice amounts to the ai as pitched or growing record inconsistencies in review and approval with sparse volunteering to match
[21:41:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mooncloud> Just wanna make sure while writing my response haha
[21:41:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> It doesn’t have a name but I think the system user account used is indeed “CreateWiki AI”
[21:41:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> inconsistency mainly in review time
[21:42:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum, replying to raidarr> By how much exactly
[21:42:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> it went well over a week at times recently
[21:43:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum> Oh
[21:43:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum> Yeah that's bad
[21:43:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> 8 days has been the record
[21:43:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kingplaystation, replying to mooncloud> i had to write my request 5 times lmao
[21:43:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> 298 requests in the queue
[21:43:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> I thought it went longer
[21:43:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kingplaystation> lack of info was the sole reason
[21:43:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> If you count the reopens, we were at ~11 days at one point
[21:43:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> that's probably what I was thinking of
[21:44:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum> Btw agent I noticed you moved me out of the draft comments. Did I screw up the formatting or are we good
[21:45:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> Draft comments are for before the RfC opens
[21:45:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum> Ohh
[21:45:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum> Okay
[21:45:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> No worries, we just want to make sure your input gets seen and responded to. 🙂
[21:47:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum> Thanks
[21:49:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob, replying to theoneandonlylegroom> Yeah, unfortunately infobox images do not seem to count.
[22:04:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum> Last question regarding the AI, what is its current average response time?
[22:04:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ghaztliousmoths> [1/3] Read the responses, seems like majorly quite supportive
[22:04:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ghaztliousmoths> [2/3] Personally, I am sceptical of AI especially when it comes to replacing jobs, but that's not what's happening here, so I don't mind 
[22:04:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ghaztliousmoths> [3/3] Will write a response on the page when it is not late at night
[22:05:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham, replying to ghaztliousmoths> Thanks for taking the time to do so, no rush at all.  Community feedback is incredibly useful to us - our process if this gets approved will very much be iterative as problems emerge and we learn more about how humans use/misuse the tool, but any nuance we may have overlooked that we can get ahead of is always helpful.
[22:07:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob, replying to ruckerenum> AI, for what?
[22:07:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham, replying to ruckerenum> Currently generally pretty snappy to formulate and return, within a minute or so at most (when we've got API credits).   There's also some nuance about the 'how', e.g. whether we wait 24 hours without human action to initiate
[22:08:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to the_mrbob> See #announcements
[22:08:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ghaztliousmoths> [1/2] Yea
[22:08:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ghaztliousmoths> [2/2] It's insane how fast the wiki request build up grew, so I completely understand the need for this AI
[22:08:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Discord, is logical ordering too much to ask for?
[22:08:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> One unexpected benefit we're seeing with fast-response is that the AI often prompts requesters to add the additional details we would normally have to ask for and wait for the requester to reply
[22:09:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329573168909779014/WUWmYCP.png?ex=678ad501&is=67898381&hm=5b0b46292c9a2a66b44b28ca7a421e9005920272d062a4cd4e4574bdb9d6a91a&
[22:09:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> Meaning that once the human has a chance to look, we've got all the information we need to make a proper decision, saving on back-and-forth
[22:11:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob> So would the AI process wiki requests and stuff?
[22:11:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob> I'm all for shorter wiki wait times
[22:11:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob> Though you always gotta be careful when it comes to the judgment of AIs lol
[22:12:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai, replying to the_mrbob> Wiki requests, yes
[22:12:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to the_mrbob> We've had it running in recommendation mode for months now
[22:12:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> It’s done a good job and we’ve tweaked it based on feedback
[22:13:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> Yeah, I wouldn't have been comfortable supporting if we hadn't done that run in test mode for months now, it's really come a long way on consistency/accuracy
[22:15:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob> Well, I'm in support then
[22:16:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob> Besides, looking at the details of the RfC, seems the system is balanced to minimise any potential AI error
[22:16:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob> So that even if any errors occurred, there's fallbacks and failsafes in place
[22:24:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum, replying to notaracham> I think 24 hours is reasonable enough
[22:24:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum> You can wait a day for your wiki
[22:29:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob> I don't understand the though process behind requesting a wiki only to never use it
[22:29:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to the_mrbob> People say eh nah this is too hard, or forget
[22:29:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to the_mrbob> Yeah, the WikiReviewer will have a load more time to go into details with the "Need more info" cases. But also ... cases where a wiki was approved by "Giving them the benefit of the doubt" - which we'd normally flagged to check after a period of time, will now be getting more attention
[22:32:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob, replying to pixldev> I suppose. Though, personally, I'd imagine that if someone went through the effort of finding a wikihost to the point they discovered Miraheze, that they'd be pretty determined.
[22:32:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob> I spent months searching through wiki host before I finally found Miraheze.
[22:32:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob> Guess not though, as the evidence shows.
[22:32:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to the_mrbob> [1/6] I agree with you. If you're so set for creating a wiki, one should count the cost first. 
[22:32:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to the_mrbob> [2/6] * Can you afford the time?
[22:32:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to the_mrbob> [3/6] * Do you have enough knowledge of the MediaWiki editing tools?
[22:32:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to the_mrbob> [4/6] * Is it realistic what you want to make?
[22:32:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to the_mrbob> [5/6] * Etc.
[22:32:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to the_mrbob> [6/6] But most jump in with "Let's do this and see where and how it goes 🤷🏻‍♂️
[22:32:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> you'd be surprised
[22:33:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob> I feel people so lazy (not to be rude to them) that they never bother editing their wiki would've just used Fandom lol.
[22:33:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> Yeah
[22:33:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> searched `how do i make my own wiki not on fandom` on DDG
[22:33:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob> Since that has no que to my knowledge?
[22:33:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> wow we need to work on meta's SEO
[22:34:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob> You can just make a wiki at the drop of dime.
[22:34:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong> LOL
[22:34:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> lots of people loath fandom
[22:34:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> for lots of reasons
[22:34:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> maybe they want a place without ads
[22:34:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> or heck a person can make a wiki and not find any other contributors
[22:35:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob, replying to pixldev> I sure loath them
[22:35:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> ive seen wikis made for games that got cancelled before release
[22:35:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob> The most time I’ve gone without editing my wiki is a month I think? Because if burnout.
[22:36:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob> I try to edit it at least once a day though, which normally comes naturally.
[22:37:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob> I think a lot of people don’t realize how much “code” goes into making a wiki.
[22:37:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to the_mrbob> as a neurodivergent, for me that shit is hard sometmimes lmao
[22:37:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> obvi not everyone, but some will share that
[22:38:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to the_mrbob> Mhm
[22:38:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Visual Editor is interesting in this
[22:38:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority, replying to pixldev> Trish Prior is that you?
[22:38:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob, replying to pixldev> My main hobby is basically Miraheze at this point lol… I have boring hobbies.
[22:38:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> making it easier for new editors to write articles, but admins who need to make templates and only ever used VE get screwed
[22:39:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr, replying to ghaztliousmoths> it's one of the cases where it actually does what society tends to hope from ai; actually make jobs easier
[22:39:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> I actually spoke with the project lead of the development of VE about this a year ago
[22:39:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <eatyourglory, replying to pixldev> which is why people should learn source editing right from the start
[22:39:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to the_mrbob> Same(more wikis in general for me, I wear my Wikipedia editor hat to my high school)
[22:39:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to eatyourglory> I encourage it yes
[22:39:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> now where's the agent joke about laying off cvt in favor of complete ai automated content review
[22:40:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> But it also doesn't help get new editors
[22:40:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob, replying to raidarr> Especially seeing the people reviewing requests are VOLUNTEERS, I feel beggars can’t be choosers here.
[22:40:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> And what use are templates with no one to write articles
[22:40:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gummiel> I mean everyone hobbies are boring to the people who don't have that particular hooby, but the fact it is your hobby, must mean it is not boring to you 😉 Fun how subjectivey work right? 😄
[22:41:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob> This isn’t replacing some paid workforce of staff. It’s a couple people taking time out of their day to keep Miraheze running; and there’s not enough manpower to do it.
[22:41:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to the_mrbob> UO/CA has put an order of magnitude more work into Miraheze then I have into my actual job and never gets LMAO
[22:42:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr, replying to the_mrbob> [1/2] and it's kinda fucked up, I'll try to explain - you would think there is a team of 9 reviewers (just a number I pulled from  nowhere), so work is distributed 9x, or maybe 4 are somewhat more active but the other 5 chip in semi regularly. Well no. 5 are very infrequent or basically absent except once in a blue moon, 2-3 kinda stop in once in a while at a given t
[22:42:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr, replying to the_mrbob> [2/2] ime, and that leaves exactly one or two who do a huge portion of the queue at a given time, subwayfares doing ballpark 100 in one go
[22:42:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob, replying to gummiel> Yeah. People sometimes look over my shoulder and ask what I’m doing. I’d love to infospill about it to them, but after 30 seconds they realize that they regret asking.
[22:42:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> how do i add my vote?
[22:42:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> those initial 5 were probably doing the same thing as the 1-2 who are doing the vast majority and had burnt out at some point along the way
[22:43:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Friendly reminder to say your thanks and maybe leave your appreciation for our extraordinary Wiki Creator and Technology Team; none of this would be in existence without them.
[22:43:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> I've done it, ro's done it, tali's done it, brandon, jph, many WCs have been the point person for a long period and if you're lucky there's up to three people who distribute queue load
[22:43:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob, replying to the_mrbob> I don’t take offense to it btw, everyone has their different forms of fun.
[22:44:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> in the request process one hopes the work is distributed but the practice is it all kinda falls on a couple people tops and the rest are more quiet or background noise if present at all
[22:44:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to raidarr> Can confirm, I have the WC hat and haven't done it since october (excluding one in Dec)
[22:44:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ghaztliousmoths, replying to pixldev> Me with running 2 wikis solo
[22:44:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> presently I am more background noise in the process
[22:45:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob, replying to ashley.cornwall> I just edited the page (source obv) and copied what the other votes did in terms of formatting at the very beginning and very end. I hope that’s how it’s done…
[22:45:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> it's basically just increment with #, use a support/oppose/other template, write your piece and sign with 
[22:45:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> and how that glues together can be seen by other votes
[22:46:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> can we make a guide to commenting on RFCs
[22:46:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob> Btw, how do people get those text box bubble next to their name? Is that a server thing or discord thing?
[22:47:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr> one can reply to other votes or use the comment section to discuss, ask, get thoughts before casting a stance
[22:47:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <raidarr, replying to pixldev> I don't see why not
[22:47:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob, replying to pixldev> I’m sure plenty would appreciate it, including me
[22:47:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall, replying to the_mrbob> just done that too
[22:47:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob, replying to the_mrbob> Not the signature ones on Miraheze, the one’s on here
[22:48:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ghaztliousmoths> Like Boba in Ashley? Those are like clan stuff
[22:48:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> huh
[22:48:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <the_mrbob> Just started seeing it recently
[22:49:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ghaztliousmoths> There's probably a yt video by no text to speech about it
[22:49:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> ohhhhh
[22:49:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> i got this from joining a clan serer
[22:49:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> server*
[22:50:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ghaztliousmoths> Mhm
[22:50:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> took me a second to remember i had it lmao
[22:50:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> was confused
[22:54:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum> Wrote up my support post
[22:55:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum> Good luck to the miraheze team
[23:32:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to kingplaystation> Been waiting for someone on phorge to see my request lol
[23:32:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> To do this
[23:32:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> Oh well I can wait longer
[23:33:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> You can do it yourself
[23:33:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> If you don’t wanna wait
[23:33:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <.guardianx., replying to pixldev> I saw some mention that I can use VS Code to edit things on my wiki...still haven't set it up though. I think I would enjoy using it to do things like templates, Modules, CSS and JS though!
[23:33:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Mediawiker I think?
[23:33:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Not that’s sublime iirc
[23:35:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> From just reading the guide I have like FIFTY tabs open (hyperbole)
[23:40:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> Just added 3 and now 2
[23:50:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <eatyourglory> how do you enable discussion tools on a wiki?
[23:52:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kingplaystation, replying to prabhasxd> patience is the key to success
[23:53:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to eatyourglory> Extension
[23:53:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kingplaystation, replying to pixldev> wait i can make pull request my self 🙂
[23:53:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <eatyourglory, replying to pixldev> so its in managewiki?
[23:53:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Should be
[23:53:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> hey can someone tell me how i caused vandalism
[23:53:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to kingplaystation> Yes always
[23:53:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> im very confused
[23:53:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to ashley.cornwall> Wait what’s your account
[23:53:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kingplaystation, replying to ashley.cornwall> ??
[23:53:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/User_talk:SMMW
[23:54:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Oh that’s you
[23:54:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> a user left a comment and im honestly confused
[23:54:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kingplaystation, replying to pixldev> ahh 😭
[23:54:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> all i tried to do was add my vote nothing else
[23:54:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <agentisai> ohhh, that's you
[23:54:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to ashley.cornwall> I think it was a misunderstanding with what was probably a mispaste
[23:54:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> oh i see
[23:54:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_Comment/CreateWiki_AI_%26_Wiki_Reviewers_RfC?diff=prev&oldid=449929
[23:54:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> Yep, a signature got inserted in a weird spot, all good.
[23:54:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> The CA links
[23:54:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> i can confirm im not trying to cause vandalism lol
[23:55:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Don’t worry, you’re fine haha
[23:55:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> CC @rodejong
[23:55:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to ashley.cornwall> Btw, next time end your comment in `` to sign
[23:55:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall> thanks for the info
[23:55:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> guys how do I switch back to the new look
[23:55:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to dullbird173> Hm?
[23:56:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> yeah for some reason I'm in what I suppose is the old look
[23:56:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> That doesn’t tell me much
[23:56:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> but I don't really like the Y2K style that much
[23:56:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> Like how do I switch back to the new default look
[23:56:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum, replying to dullbird173> https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering
[23:56:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum> Maybe?
[23:57:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> I have like 25 tabs open
[23:57:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> holy moly
[23:57:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum> Citizen is probably the skin you are thinking of
[23:57:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum> If not then Vector 2022
[23:57:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Rookie numbers
[23:57:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to ruckerenum> I assume vector 22
[23:57:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> Wait
[23:57:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum, replying to pixldev> [1/2] Imagine not being organized
[23:57:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum, replying to pixldev> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329600543265652798/image.png?ex=678aee80&is=67899d00&hm=826f2bf85b07dab4e31cedea5cab0db788f513370e78777e2cf5d48c7166833e&
[23:57:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> No I set it to timeles
[23:57:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to ruckerenum> Ew
[23:58:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> I'm dumb
[23:58:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall, replying to ruckerenum> [1/2] me
[23:58:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall, replying to ruckerenum> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1329600623079067688/image.png?ex=678aee93&is=67899d13&hm=2ef3707f21bae7df2fde7d5ad0284f9395b3158c2d880fa85ecada10304fb61b&
[23:58:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dullbird173> Well gotta find the Special:ManageWiki tab
[23:59:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rodejong, replying to ashley.cornwall> I apologised on the talk page. I should rather have asked then to assume. Sorry
[23:59:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ashley.cornwall, replying to rodejong> no worries mistakes were made but its all okay now
[23:59:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ruckerenum> I saw BlankEclair's comment which is so far the best case against the AI I have seen