[00:00:26] Something like that [00:00:47] Link? [00:00:58] I can remove from queue [00:01:44] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:RequestWikiQueue/53748 [00:05:46] question but will the donation goal ever increase if more people keep coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop comingb [00:06:31] More wikis = Higher operation costs [00:07:22] has the volunteers been getting jumped by the amount of new wikis lately [00:07:26] The more people that join Miraheze, however, the more donations it will recieve (hopefully) [00:08:18] It has been an issue, which is why https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_Comment/CreateWiki_AI_%26_Wiki_Reviewers_RfC exists [00:08:34] what caused the new wave? [00:08:42] Was it another fandom mess up? [00:08:45] If you read through the first bit it gives a good overview on how the volunteer workload situation currently is [00:09:13] That's something you'd probably have to ask them personally [00:09:29] If I was to theorize, word of mouth perhaps? [00:09:40] Typically, things grow exponentially [00:10:02] The more people that use Miraheze, the more "mainstream" of a wikifarm/host it becomes [00:10:32] i'd imagine it was just a combination of factors that built up over tne years [00:10:46] And with the downfill of Fandom in recent years, there has been an increase in people hunting for alternative hosts. So that does liekly play some role. [00:11:20] idk how I got here I just saw two other niche projects pn Miraheze (The Wiki Beyond The Ice Wall and GregTech: New Horizons) and followed here because Fandom was a dumpster fire and I wanted something like Wikipedia [00:11:27] i think the last part may be a contributing factor [00:12:17] This was also a theory. As mor eprominent communities join/migrate to Miraheze, many outside casual users will grow to become familiar with Miraheze as a host. [00:13:40] So then, when some of the want to make their own wikis, they will already be familiar with Miraheze as an option. [00:13:52] As opposed to it being far more obscure say half a decade ago. [00:15:27] This is only a quick look but can you tell me why "NOTOC" isn't working here? https://thirdmillennium.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page [00:15:41] or is it just a dummy move [00:17:01] That's because it's between `NOTOC/nowiki` [00:17:24] Try removing [00:17:28] It needs to be `NOWIKI` [00:17:37] Had a whale fall from overhead may be more accurate [00:17:41] Yeah, you just need that part [00:17:51] Visual Edior moment [00:17:53] so add or replace? [00:17:59] Replace [00:18:01] Visual Editor bros stay losing [00:18:05] Alright let mè if it worjs [00:18:07] this was likely part [00:18:10] its not one thing [00:18:13] its gradual [00:18:22] it’s not a limit, just a goal, so it does go up every fundraiser [00:18:25] Anti fandom sentiment is growing [00:18:28] If it works, you shouldn't see TOC at all in preview [00:18:52] more people are seeing miraheze wikis and that we exist [00:18:55] thank you [00:19:09] You're welcome [00:19:23] i do want to work on improving our search rankings in googling how make wiki so maybe that’ll drive it up more who knows [00:20:02] Speaking of search rankings, it took a few months but my Wiki started showing up when I googled it which is cool [00:20:07] Having resources overall for wikis to improve SEO to compete with fandom is something id like to do [00:20:35] Now, you have to be very specific with what you search, but before I couldn't get it to show up no matter what [00:20:52] Do you have Google Search Console or WikiSEO set up? [00:20:53] non profit vs for profit is gonna be like a poor person (with determination) fighting a rich guy with a gun [00:20:54] So I'd call this an improvement [00:21:07] [1/9] If someone has time... The page [[Help:Skin]] needs an update as this seems outdated? [00:21:08] [2/9] ```Available skins [00:21:08] [3/9] Miraheze currently offers the following skins by default: [00:21:08] [4/9] Cologne Blue [00:21:09] [5/9] Minerva Neue (default for mobile) [00:21:09] [6/9] Modern [00:21:09] [7/9] MonoBook [00:21:10] [8/9] Vector (default for desktop) [00:21:10] [9/9] Timeless``` [00:21:10] [00:21:16] I think I set up SEO a while back [00:21:21] It’s more their size [00:21:28] But it depends a lot [00:21:38] google phighting wiki [00:22:19] What in the Miraheze sorcery is this [00:22:26] ...it's incredible [00:22:41] In terms of quality, Miraheze wins easily. In terms of function, both are fairly equal imo (in terms of can you make a wiki with them), it terms of community, Miraheze also wins (largely due to the quality barrier for communities). [00:23:06] but fandom isn't just about wikis [00:23:15] There’s plenty of examples [00:23:19] pressure wiki on MH [00:23:29] Minecraft wiki usually [00:23:33] What else is it about? I've used Fandom loads in the past. [00:23:42] community [00:24:03] That’s the easy part at times [00:24:07] You can have community on Miraheze though, especially if you get the comments extension./ [00:24:22] Or just use discussion pages. [00:24:34] Plenty of wikis successfully took nearly the entire editor base [00:24:38] I've also seen a lot of wikis link discords on the main page [00:24:42] Readers can be the challenge [00:24:58] This is the toughest part [00:25:11] number of pages and edits is just {{NUMBEROFPAGES}} and {{NUMBEROFEDITS}} right or is my peanut cat brain missing something [00:25:15] those are templates [00:25:26] Correct [00:25:50] thank the Lord [00:25:54] Getting top search helps [00:25:58] And vise versa [00:25:59] fjnallt have something to add to to the introduction [00:26:20] Is there numberofarticles? [00:26:25] Really hard to add featurs when the approximate number of people that want to add features is 0.1% out of 100 [00:26:25] On Nukapedia, there was a huge schism and half of the mods sided with the impeached Wiki Leader who had deleted most of the wiki during their tantrum. Even still though, we maintaned basically all of our users lol. [00:26:41] wiki for nukes? [00:26:44] What [00:26:53] The Fallout Wiki [00:26:58] oh [00:27:00] Yes [00:27:10] Deleting anything for fallout is heresy [00:27:17] Issue is, I one day hope to see Nukapedia off of Fandom [00:27:25] issue is, if that mess showed us anything [00:27:42] it's that every last mod could abandon the wiki and it'd still keep most of the reader [00:27:52] See [[w:Help:Magic words]] [00:27:53] [00:27:54] but Fandom might actually nuke you if you link to Miraheze [00:28:09] Fandom prevents the advertising of new wikis [00:28:29] they also force their bureaucrats into every major wiki. [00:28:52] It feels like having a corporate drone in the office to prevent discussions of unionizing [00:29:11] can someone please put examples in those rables [00:29:19] [1/7] ```{{NUMBEROFPAGES}} [00:29:19] [2/7] {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}} [00:29:20] [3/7] {{NUMBEROFFILES}} [00:29:20] [4/7] {{NUMBEROFEDITS}} [00:29:20] [5/7] {{NUMBEROFUSERS}} [00:29:21] [6/7] {{NUMBEROFADMINS}} [00:29:21] [7/7] {{NUMBEROFACTIVEUSERS}}``` [00:29:22] They get paid by Fandom to keep things running how they wish [00:29:38] the poor get paid to keep themselves poor [00:29:45] wtym [00:29:45] so fandom is a dystopia [00:29:55] Fandom has so much inffluence they managed to enstate their own rules onto the community ran Editor Discord server [00:30:01] as in picture examplss to see how those magic words function [00:30:15] so what would we be [00:30:22] See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Magic_words [00:30:29] There are the examples [00:30:30] someone said that we're a confederation that's a bit too chaotic [00:31:03] For a lot of the magic words, don't you just drop them in and they function as intended? [00:31:08] Such as forceTOC and noTOC [00:31:19] Exactly [00:31:41] It's not like a infobox where you need all sorts of bars and braces [00:31:42] It's all on that Help page [00:31:50] alr [00:31:59] but is this right? [00:32:11] Nah [00:32:15] What's a confederation? [00:32:18] Miraheze? [00:32:21] It was more of a comparrisson [00:32:55] A confederation is just a form of government, a lose coalition of soverign states similar to a federation but distinct in the power allocated to the comprising members. [00:33:02] No they allow discussion [00:33:23] But you can’t advertise the new one and any admins who fork are demoted [00:33:40] Minecraft FANDOM still has their forum about this up IIRC [00:33:46] we can see sovereign states as wikis and the comprising members as bureaucrats, stewards and whatnot [00:34:49] I mean I suppose this would be a confederation if we were to describe it as a government? Even then though, it's more akin to a federation if we're talking technicalities? Then again, this ultimately isn't a government lol. [00:35:21] I say federation since most of Miraheze's power and authoirty derives from a centralized group of people who dictate rules, ToS, all that cool jazz. [00:37:15] Also when it comes to the distinctions between federations and confederacies a lot of it comes down to the way internal economics are handled. Which doesn't apply to a website obviously. [00:37:33] We ain't exaclty trading shipments of slate between borders lol. [00:37:39] federation in terms of raw power perhaps but intended confederation in how things run day to day ie, there are guidelines and the world is each wiki's oyster [00:38:13] Perhaps a supranational entity? [00:38:17] so a federal semi-confederational (not even a word) constitutional presidential union? [00:39:01] President is quite figurehead at mira, but perhaps [00:39:15] This is essentially between a federation and confederation on the spectrum, so I think it fits. [00:39:21] [1/3] I am off. [00:39:22] [2/3] Good night everyone [00:39:22] [3/3] 💤 [00:39:28] Indeed leadership can be quite opaque sometimes [00:39:29] Yeah [00:39:36] g'night [00:39:43] Members retain large amounts of their autonomy, but some power is allocated to a centralized group that dictates general rules the bind the members. [00:39:58] pretty apt [00:39:59] its more an elected oligarchy in regards to senior CVT/Stewards [00:40:00] hence presidential (or whatever) [00:40:06] Depends on scope [00:40:09] maybe oligarchal in turn for prssident [00:40:26] But the rules are largely set by members, with stewards as executors [00:40:30] Tech has lots of power but their work doesn’t interfere much with communities unless needed [00:40:31] This is a funny discussion [00:40:34] hence federal [00:40:44] for the 50 States have their own laws [00:40:47] different from D.C [00:40:51] And TS is just to make sure things aren’t illegal [00:41:18] It depends on if you’re counting the power of the board or community cored [00:41:22] Well the US started a confederation and so maintained a far more lenient federation. [00:41:22] But the members of all states also directly vote on federal law [00:41:35] so a federal constitutional congressional oligarchic confederation? [00:41:40] Though you can argue that the federal government of the US frequently tresspasses past its allocated power [00:41:48] which makes it a firm Federation [00:41:57] The executive especially but I digress [00:41:58] Miraheze doesn't do that though [00:42:21] what if we just create a new word to explain the entire volunteer system [00:42:27] Mot congress [00:42:32] mirahezian [00:42:33] thay part is directly democratic [00:42:40] I choose the word "Miraheze" [00:42:42] or clueocratic [00:42:48] we are like a colony of bees [00:42:54] I am a bee [00:43:00] buzz buzz [00:43:02] Actually Wikimedia has a similar but more centralized structure [00:43:09] Federal Constitutional Democratic Oligarchic Mirahezian Confederation? [00:43:18] the local and global community are a looooot more closely intertwined [00:43:29] I feel some of these... contradict [00:43:34] wmf has a far stiffer oligarchic/staff backdrop [00:43:57] there dan be an oligarchy and democracy like with Russia [00:44:03] question is if the democrach is not rigged or not [00:44:15] very few here haven't derived from the miraheze community [00:44:47] I still think supranational organization fits best [00:45:12] government labels are largely semantic anyways though XD [00:45:13] Like many democratic systems, organized currents of thought exist behind the curtain, sometimes called cabals [00:45:29] ||don't ruin the fun :(|| [00:45:34] Often does any government 100% conform to any label [00:45:58] You do get some interesting combinations from this though [00:46:07] us is a democracy but we know well that there's a rich elite oligarchy [00:46:18] so yeah oligarchy and democracy can fit [00:46:32] Wikipedia lists the UK's government as a: Unitary parliamentary constitutional monarchy [00:46:41] miraheze 'elite' lack wealth [00:47:04] oligarchy can be elite for other things [00:47:12] In our quest for an accurate description, we have created a mouthful [00:47:33] so any changes to this? [00:47:33] many dictatorships seem to try and roleplay demoratoc systems these days anyway [00:47:55] Hm, what's North Korea's official name again? [00:48:05] Ah yes [00:48:10] DEMOCRATIC People's Republic of Korea [00:48:18] mmmm [00:48:57] so what ideology would we be [00:49:07] I feel many modern people who complain about a government not being "free" enough, forget that a Republic does not inherently guarantee a system "of/for the people". [00:49:12] Def not true but I am getting a socialist vibe from Miraheze [00:49:35] It has parallels [00:49:57] And a communal aspect is required for miraheze to function [00:50:05] let me update that name [00:50:09] I still think it would be fun if the US tried being a direct democracy for four years. Just want to see what the outcome will be. [00:50:29] Like, a 100% direct democracy. [00:50:38] Federal Semi-Constitutional Socialist Democratic Oligarchic Mirahezian Confederation [00:50:46] god what is this abominatoon [00:50:51] Become certain systems of US government, especially state matters, are direct [00:51:34] aren't states just dominions of D.C with extra step anyways [00:52:07] Simple answer: complicated [00:52:21] When it comes to federal-state matters, it can go both ways. [00:52:32] State laws can override federal laws and vice versa [00:53:03] The federal law states weed is illegal, but certain states have overrided that law with their own state laws [00:53:13] but are we locking this in or nah? [00:53:27] But the Federal government has ennacted countless laws in the past that override any state laws and apply universially. [00:53:53] https://tenor.com/view/i-dunno-uhh-i-dunno-spongebob-spongebob-meme-gif-4822817218773590587 [00:54:10] shouldn't we ask a steward online for their opinion [00:54:16] they've probably been here longee than us [00:54:35] I think they're busy rn [00:54:41] oh right [00:54:51] they getting cooked by 7000 reqeusts as we speak [00:55:04] do ex stewards count [00:55:11] you one? [00:55:18] thrice [00:55:23] oh [00:55:38] so any possible changes to this? [00:55:48] it is an interesting soup [00:56:11] I'd argue more constitutional but a lot realistically is left to discretion [00:56:34] [1/7] Federal = wikis have their own laws [00:56:34] [2/7] Semi-consitutional = ToS and stuff [00:56:34] [3/7] Socialist = as you said [00:56:35] [4/7] Democratic = we vote fpr stuff [00:56:35] [5/7] Oligarchic = Stewards [00:56:35] [6/7] Mirahezian = Volunteer system [00:56:36] [7/7] Confederation = For all of the wikis [00:57:23] it is the idea that stewards are by and for the community, with little power to actually enact things on their own accord; it is precedented for things that have been wanted by generations of steward to be overridden by community [00:58:14] they do have the most direct 'power' but it is under tighter controls; tech also has a great deal of capability but little to enforce on the platform; really the group best set to do that is the board, and that power is used very carefully [00:58:44] there was an instance where someone who was tech, steward, trust and safety, and president of miraheze wanted a change, but board dissention and community dissatisfaction saw it unsuccessful [00:58:49] FSSDOMC [00:59:01] i hate sebastian solace [00:59:24] :CerberCry: [00:59:37] if oligarchic is just referring to the holding of powers perhaps, but my understanding is a level of day to day dominance which doesn't entirely exist [00:59:38] Do you run a Roblox wiki [00:59:49] no I run my own world's wiki [00:59:53] thirdmillennium [01:00:01] and I've advocated for some time better coordination among people who do have powers, but it's not something miraheze 'elites' do well [01:00:15] so Stewards are the justice system basically? [01:00:17] I'm dumb [01:00:25] they serve that role [01:01:02] in the full sense, not in the american sense of justice as split from executive since stewards do a lot of executive bits too [01:01:26] but they do not set law, they are only meant to enforce or interpret grey boundaries [01:01:53] so they're both lawmakers and parliament sorta members [01:02:19] distinctly neither of them, as they do not make laws and their vote is only as effective as their standing in the community [01:02:34] the word of a steward does tend to be taken seriously but it does not technically weigh any more unless in an official capacity [01:03:23] figuring out what type of government we are is so compklicated (ys I know we're a website) [01:03:53] I'm sure the polcompball crew could figure it out tbh, they breathe such things [01:05:13] do you know a polcompball person [01:05:28] or do I have to to their wiki and ask in the forums [01:12:29] [1/3] I’ll help first 5 people interested on how to start earning $2k- $90k+ within a week . But you’ll reimburse me 10% of your profits when you receive it. N/B: Only serious minded people should apply, drop a message let’s get started by asking me (HOW) via telegram username below ⬇️Or contact via [01:12:29] [2/3] Whatsapp: +1 (225) 220‑3459 [01:12:29] [3/3] Telegram: @Markpro24 [01:17:37] @Discord Moderators scam or whatever [01:18:14] goodbye [01:20:51] you'd probably have to seek them out, I know a couple were here but I forget who and not sure they'd want to be bugged [01:32:30] What on Mars is a pollcompball [01:32:40] Is that like country balls? [01:32:46] Political compass countryballs [01:32:49] Ohhh [01:33:21] Not to be rude to fans of that, but that sounds like it would be one of the most toxic communities ever [01:33:31] As goes for many political fandoms [01:33:35] countryballs is super chill [01:33:40] Ofc there are problems [01:33:48] but if everybody hates each other equally [01:33:51] Does yugoslavia ball exist? [01:33:55] no one is truly racist [01:34:00] probably [01:34:35] Still salty there is not yugoslavia flag emoji [01:34:42] rip my goat [01:35:02] yugoslavia was the only thing keeping the western balkans safe [01:35:16] if Tito didn't get crossed everything would be a ok [01:36:44] I think Yugoslavia made the Balkans substantially more angry [01:36:53] it's collapse did [01:36:56] In the longterm [01:37:14] but Yugoslavia ensured that everyone had socialism over anything else first [01:37:19] Poor Bosnia and Herzegovina can’t even going swimming anymore [01:37:27] it's collapse threw that out of the window and brought out the etnic problens [01:37:36] they ahve like 15km of coast [01:37:45] I thought it was 12km? [01:37:46] and even that is probably being used up by a government port [01:37:52] idk the exact numbe [01:38:05] Oh, they have 12mu [01:38:21] 20km [01:39:00] And in order to get to it they have to cross a Croatian bridge iirc 😭 [01:39:29] Speaking of Croatia, I see quite a few Croatian wiki requests [01:39:45] One that I remember was for art [02:10:59] [1/2] hi uh, for some reason the search term 'death' is triggering this error on phighting.wiki [02:10:59] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330358817178914876/image.png?ex=678db0b2&is=678c5f32&hm=ee81363b0cfe6772b08811d239a0486bd0d55bab31744ece93ae4b83857823dc& [02:11:02] i can reproduce it every time [02:11:11] bit awkward bc we have a page named 'death in the family' i need to search haha [02:14:24] copy the exception id here please [02:16:24] > Precondition failed: This Title instance does not represent a proper page, but merely a link target. [02:29:17] apologies [02:29:27] `[b8d5f542747d21446679c78c] 2025-01-19 02:29:20: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Assert\PreconditionException"` [02:29:43] url is [02:30:08] i trigger it by typing 'death' into the search bar and pressing enter, i can do this with seemingly any other word but not this one? [02:35:46] TIL [02:35:58] Circus… [02:36:03] Sigh [02:36:06] task please [02:36:12] my musical intermission is over [02:36:16] what [02:36:25] wait till you find about countryhumans [02:36:56] sorry pixl what do you want me to do exactly [02:55:07] how did we get to circus [03:05:35] blame ice spice [03:20:13] Cirrus? [03:58:20] sorry, couldn’t respond cause i was in the middle of a musical [03:58:33] [1/4] ello [03:58:34] [2/4] im running into a problem with possibly tabber? where its cutting off the content when its in another tab for this expanded table [03:58:34] [3/4] [03:58:34] [4/4] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330385889347506397/Screen_Shot_2025-01-19_at_11.58.28_AM.png?ex=678dc9e9&is=678c7869&hm=00a39d21aeec9770e19ccb9b8f20daa69d8c7376d745eb6ff96e9ee27f746038& [03:58:53] Issues with error codes like this should make a task on phorge with the production error task [03:59:07] its the best way for tech to see it and get the trace [03:59:27] Cirrus* [03:59:31] oh [04:01:52] huh it seems to work okay when i tab out? but its moving erratically for a small bit when i do [04:20:37] why did my wiki just display an error screen- [04:20:47] miradown [04:21:02] [1/2] Error 503 Backend fetch failed via cp37 at Sun, 19 Jan 2025 04:20:41 GMT [04:21:02] [2/2] Varnish XID 734986248 [04:21:04] oh god [04:21:25] i was just making my main page look better [04:21:28] NOOOO [04:21:31] F [04:21:38] well luckily [04:21:44] I never tried CSS [04:21:53] if I did I would've lost it harder than when I tried to figure infobox [04:22:01] [1/3] > Error 503 Backend fetch failed via cp36 at Sun, 19 Jan 2025 04:21:40 GMT [04:22:01] [2/3] > Varnish XID 514130322 [04:22:01] [3/3] hi guys [04:22:10] Miraheze down [04:22:13] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330391845108449310/image.png?ex=678dcf75&is=678c7df5&hm=8c77d7fddda56310189141fc944130aae9cd38baf6aac360c54fbbfe4b0900d1& [04:22:15] wheres the good gateways when you need em [04:22:23] Where Stewards [04:22:42] Wait who even fixes crashes- [04:22:45] the tech team [04:22:46] hopefully you have edit recovery enabled [04:22:54] keep the tab open [04:23:02] ehh it was only a few words [04:23:04] then when it's up, F5 should resend the new page contents [04:23:05] oh [04:23:10] ii deleted the tab instantly [04:23:14] o- oh [04:23:24] well servers arent having a good time in #tech-ops at the moment [04:23:24] > [19/01/2025 15:22] PROBLEM - cp37 Varnish Backends on cp37 is CRITICAL: 15 backends are down. mw151 mw152 mw161 mw162 mw171 mw172 mw181 mw182 mw153 mw154 mw163 mw164 mw174 mw183 mw184 [04:23:26] mmm yes fun [04:23:48] that server in Salt Lake City spazzing out rn [04:24:11] wait do we pay the people that run the servers? [04:24:16] nah, we don't [04:24:26] looks like the servers are getting up? i hope? [04:24:40] forced labor /j [04:24:51] [1/2] almost [04:24:51] [2/2] it might be good in a few minutes [04:24:52] nope [04:25:01] well shit [04:25:02] R.I.P. evalprime [04:25:16] what [04:25:22] mira down [04:25:28] billions must migrate to the discord [04:25:37] ones must migrate to irc [04:25:44] BRUH i was working on a list of presidents [04:25:47] maybe it can be twos, who knows [04:25:47] its up for me i think now [04:25:53] don't close the tab [04:26:05] its on my pjhone [04:26:11] im on my computer [04:26:18] hmm, rainverse wiki and meta wiki is up [04:26:20] Anyways for some reason I have a doc with 1000 conspiracy theories [04:26:21] i will not close my phone tab [04:26:30] queer power keeping it alive [04:26:34] hell yeah [04:26:55] Meta is literally the most important one [04:27:02] It would make sense if they have lik 5 backups for it alone [04:27:17] But I swear if this is another Database 141- [04:27:30] 😭 [04:27:35] what just happened [04:27:36] uhh, hopefully not?? [04:27:43] mira down mira down [04:27:51] thousands must migrate to the discord [04:28:07] oh [04:28:09] i just saw two tech team members get on [04:28:09] mira has fallen millions must migrate [04:28:10] it's db181 that is down [04:28:14] yeah they're working on it [04:28:20] > (Cannot access the database: Cannot access the database: Too many connections (db181)) [04:28:21] don't tell me- [04:28:24] we’re down? [04:28:27] I just loaded my wiki it's up and running [04:28:29] im up [04:28:31] https://thirdmillennium.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page is failing [04:28:38] L [04:28:41] NO DON'T TELL ME [04:28:46] why has no one pinged the tech team [04:28:47] I swear if I lose that wiki- [04:28:50] stop rubbing it in [04:28:57] Still down [04:28:58] I thought y'all was already working on it [04:29:05] Because two people just went online [04:29:09] nope [04:29:10] i was confused as to what was down lol [04:29:14] well the problem hasnt presented itself in full yet [04:29:16] unless someone pings us, no one’s working on it [04:29:19] well fix it [04:29:23] we know now though, it seems [04:29:25] we pay you nothing for a reason [04:29:26] that's kinda obvious ^^; [04:29:28] aefblwbfiwlabefiuwefiulawbeuifaf [04:30:05] ok what kind of bot is this? [04:30:10] i understand its a bit but i hope you understand the bit fell flat [04:30:12] crosschat bot [04:30:17] crosschat [04:30:21] i'm the bot that is very gay [04:30:25] oh [04:30:26] so true [04:30:28] it relats messages from the miraheze irc [04:30:28] so real [04:30:57] needs to get fixed [04:30:57] idk why thid slways happens lol [04:30:57] Does Tech Team already know [04:30:58] Agent does [04:30:58] Yes [04:31:03] thank god [04:31:08] @agentisai be an agent of good, not chaos by fixing mira [04:31:12] But I swear if this is another Db141 [04:31:16] i do know, but i can't really do anything by myself because i have no server access [04:31:19] ice spice will help [04:31:21] !! [04:31:38] los Angeles is getting nuked next month [04:31:46] good [04:31:52] not again [04:31:59] good [04:32:17] is it down? [04:32:20] wait I just remembered [04:32:31] I used {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}} and it crashed [04:32:31] db181 is down [04:32:38] yeah it's saying that to me [04:32:39] is that supposed to be a coincidence? [04:32:50] https://grafana.wikitide.net/d/W9MIkA7iz/wikitide-cluster?orgId=1&from=now-6h&to=now&timezone=browser&var-job=node&var-node=db181.wikitide.net&var-port=9100&refresh=auto [04:32:50] I think not! /j [04:32:52] cool cpu spike [04:33:18] i don't understand what I'm seeing [04:33:22] but all I see is red tall [04:33:25] so it's bad [04:33:27] WORKING [04:33:35] nvm [04:33:38] the servers are being put into forced labour [04:33:46] *volunteers [04:33:55] both [04:34:20] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330394891791896616/2Q.png?ex=678dd24b&is=678c80cb&hm=3b48490e7bdc4f7fb220f2d64f26e2c314b40a2986133cd8ce64f233edf7ca7a& [04:34:25] literally every volunteer recently: [04:35:00] lol [04:35:05] so some wikis are still up [04:35:08] Big ouch [04:35:18] while others like min have been canned harder than beans [04:35:37] hopefully this isn't a db141 [04:35:49] there are backups right? [04:35:49] Yes, we use multiple servers to host/deliver wiki content to folks. Impacts will not be universal. [04:35:50] i mean, i doubt that it is, but i can't really go look at the server to figure things out [04:35:54] right? [04:36:03] it says db181 as an error code [04:36:09] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/backups#General_backup_schedules [04:36:10] going from a cpu spike to another db141 is a very, very big leap [04:36:16] agreed [04:36:24] thank the universe [04:36:30] whenever you have a cpu spike, it’s almost always the backup script going awry [04:36:34] ping me when it's up again [04:36:44] I need to work on the 1000 entry conspiracy theory google doc [04:36:45] same [04:36:53] what i miss [04:36:59] mira down [04:37:00] db181 is having a cpu spike [04:37:01] anyways bye [04:37:11] (db181 specifically, not the entire farm) [04:37:24] Let me know when it's back [04:37:34] So this is why my entire draft page got deleted [04:37:37] I saved it too [04:37:37] ping multiple times if I don't respond [04:37:38] :< [04:37:43] :9 [04:37:45] :3 [04:37:53] You may want to try enabling edit recovery in settings [04:38:04] how do I do dat [04:38:16] Special:Preferences -> search for edit recovery -> check it -> save [04:38:20] well anywho I cant rn cuz my wikis down anyway [04:38:31] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:GlobalPreferences :3 [04:38:45] ah ok [04:39:34] well this wont happen aain thankfully [04:39:47] so anyway, this appears to have happened twice in the past [04:40:02] https://issue-tracker.miraheze.org/T13020 [04:40:20] we're backing up too hard [04:40:29] That's the working theory at the moment. [04:40:44] (oh right, agent didn't quite explicitly confirm it) [04:41:03] We can’t really confirm without being able to log in to the server [04:41:09] SSH is hung [04:41:12] oh [04:41:18] i was about to ask if you have not, but ^^; [04:41:26] the whole server is locked up entirely [04:41:32] kinda forgot that cpu spikes do that [04:42:05] db161 is practically down as it has too many connections [04:42:07] best title ever [04:42:10] Backups: data so safe you (briefly) won't have access to it. 😅 [04:42:10] when will it be back up [04:42:15] checking back [04:42:18] soon™ [04:42:19] db161 is down too? [04:42:23] nah, that was in the past [04:42:27] oh [04:42:33] what do the dbs mean [04:42:35] well back to dinosaurs in hollow earth [04:42:39] ive never experienced this before lol [04:42:43] db is short for database [04:42:52] so what would db181 mean [04:43:13] This used to be a much more common problem, but is generally rarer since we moved to new infrastructure in 2024 [04:43:27] i see it as (db)(18)(1) [04:43:36] the (1)st (db) on the cloud(18) server [04:43:50] gimme plastic [04:43:52] Soon-to-come upgrades will give us further breathing room. [04:45:42] rain is written by a 40 year old trans woman? holy based [04:46:06] ye! now you know ^_^ [04:46:28] I always forget that old queer people exist [04:46:36] drag queens were big in the 80's iirc [04:46:54] it would be kinda morbid to graph out the life expectency for queer people [04:46:57] kinda wanna see it tbh [04:47:26] i wonder about trans people in particular [04:47:31] because, well, [04:47:35] * BlankEclair gestures vaguely at TDoR [04:47:50] what's TDoR [04:47:56] trans day of rememberance [04:48:08] oh [04:48:10] ty [04:48:20] a day dedicated to commemorating trans people who have been murdered by transphobia [04:49:17] rest in peace [04:49:26] 🫡 [04:49:37] I marked c4 as under maintenance so that wikis can come back up [04:49:50] if you see an influx of people asking why their wiki says it’s under maintenance, this is why [04:49:51] i would say "/me lights a candlelight vigil", but it's not TDoR yet :p [04:50:12] how long does it usually take for the database to normalize [04:50:18] not sure [04:50:23] in the past, around 1 hour [04:50:30] not too long [04:51:25] Miraheze needs a tighter sytem [04:51:44] so this stuf won't happen [04:52:01] there's more people coming in anyways [04:52:06] increase the donation cap [04:52:06] wdym? [04:53:04] anyways I'm just gonna share the conspiracy theory doc for no reason [04:53:07] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ns5MXk7OeQxOgb02S-Zd9rmBiGKhKDoWazawVzmOL9k/edit?usp=sharing [04:53:19] I don’t think you understand what the donation goal means [04:53:22] doxygen is having a disco party [04:53:25] it’s the amount we would like [04:53:27] not the cap [04:53:29] Ah [04:53:29] https://files.catbox.moe/1smba8.mp4 [04:53:48] Fish [04:54:02] what is that [04:54:09] ik but I'm just saying [04:54:16] mediawiki documentation, i'm currently touching some code atm [04:54:21] but it's bouncing up and down for some reason [04:54:23] Helloo [04:54:29] hi [04:54:36] rip in peace my browser history [04:54:39] How is everyone? [04:54:52] Hahaha [04:55:03] how many "get:"'s would a person need [04:55:09] many [04:55:36] What are you trying to do? If I may ask [04:55:56] i'm rewriting Extension:DismissableSiteNotice, and i was reading documentation [04:56:06] then doxygen decided to have a lil fun and it went spinny [04:56:27] Oh right... Idk what that is but sounds both fun and frustrating [04:57:04] doxygen is the thing used to generate mediawiki core's docs (on the php side) [04:57:17] computer engineering is just typing random numbers and letters and praying to God they function. ten times, then you delete one letter and everything collapses [04:57:27] [1/2] Is this okay? [04:57:27] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330400711418056705/Screenshot_2025-01-19-12-57-10-108_com.android.chrome.jpg?ex=678dd7b7&is=678c8637&hm=802ecc07987379d1908823f7dcf4b253b8689c3df3c870ba21b97f43ca6980e2& [04:57:34] mira down [04:58:07] some wikis [04:58:12] see #announcements [04:58:16] the majority are up [04:58:21] Yeah programming is fun and frustrating too. I'm trying to learn Rust at the moment and its a far cry from my familiar love and safe space of Python lol [04:58:36] i have a love-hate relationship with it lol [04:58:59] [1/3] this is making me really mad! [04:58:59] [2/3] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330401071243198595/Screenshot_2025-01-19_123424.png?ex=678dd80d&is=678c868d&hm=b4cf148d4d8d3fd3982ed4e08d21befb8c897f9d88eb7ecb63121616a1fc2c42& [04:58:59] [3/3] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330401071507701864/Screenshot_2025-01-19_125718.png?ex=678dd80d&is=678c868d&hm=a9ebb195b81d2b43454022ed07257097e9db012efe290083690436ec816600f5& [04:59:14] What languages do you know? [04:59:17] i just wanna see the c.i wiki!! [04:59:26] outrageous_hummingbird_96469: yeah, the database server got hit hard by the backup script [04:59:38] even ssh is too sluggish apparently [04:59:40] Are you guys fixing the error? [04:59:46] what is a backup script [04:59:49] Please be patient, we're working to re-route wiki content delivery to other servers [04:59:55] At least there is a backup script [04:59:59] heh, true [05:00:07] > [19/01/2025 15:59] Are you guys fixing the error? [05:00:07] A script that makes sure wiki data isn't lost forever. it's a good thing, if unfortunately timed. [05:00:15] maybe [05:00:18] maybe not [05:00:19] last i heard from agent, we kinda have to wait it out since he can't access the server [05:00:32] > [19/01/2025 15:59] What languages do you know? [05:00:46] python, php, lua, javascript, rust, c, c++, more that i don't remember [05:01:05] Nice [05:01:16] Good luck guys [05:01:21] I couldn't wrap my head around C++ tbh, pointer hell [05:01:23] [1/2] Fun fact: this is the first time I've ever seen this error pop up. 🙂 [05:01:23] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330401700850302976/image.png?ex=678dd8a3&is=678c8723&hm=0fec3258fa2c30c4360b0ed409974470ab3e6e65de236706b8f9b72144ab5c44& [05:01:33] as long as i understand the syntax and it's structured linearly, i can more or less deal with it [05:01:39] Where's the banana, bro? [05:02:14] > [19/01/2025 16:00] RECOVERY - db181 MariaDB on db181 is OK: Uptime: 134 Threads: 2 Questions: 23349 Slow queries: 0 Opens: 1960 Open tables: 1954 Queries per second avg: 174.246 [05:02:18] agentisai: we good now, i think [05:02:29] we gotta turn off maint for that server now :p [05:02:38] it has been off for maybe 5 minutes [05:02:40] Bro? [05:02:45] I was about to inform that everything seems to be back [05:02:45] w- what banana? [05:02:52] ah okay [05:02:53] Ask a parseable question, get an answer. 🙂 [05:02:56] i haven't seen then :p [05:02:58] [1/2] its fixed [05:02:58] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330402099640537098/Screenshot_2025-01-19_130238.png?ex=678dd902&is=678c8782&hm=16ae85c2c5612cf3b5a489547610db7af436fbdda2183ae4a9bc27ea384da2e2& [05:03:02] i can use it now [05:03:03] Thats good. I get a bit intimidated by the syntax. Especially when theres some magic type casting from pointers and such [05:03:11] Bro banana 🥹 [05:03:33] don't spam buddy [05:03:41] BlankEclair, do you know any good tips for Rust? [05:03:53] it's been a while since i really wrote much rust, so not really lol [05:04:02] Fair enough [05:04:08] ? [05:04:09] i guess keep the build folder in one place so that you can reuse things you've built? [05:04:22] I don't understand anything [05:04:28] and so there's a centralised place you can delete when the artifacts get too big [05:04:31] Ah ok yeah that makes sense [05:04:40] What do you mean by banana? [05:05:06] On the fisch Wiki [05:05:21] Says he has about the new fish [05:05:27] Banana [05:05:37] this is a support server of a wiki hosting [05:05:43] not single wiki [05:06:03] so we don't have information you're looking for [05:06:21] try to find server of the wiki itself [05:06:27] Bro [05:06:29] the wiki should be back now too [05:06:50] blankeclair, whats your favourite coding project or fav language? [05:06:55] Leave it there🙄 [05:06:56] its back [05:07:19] i don't really have a fav project [05:07:28] as for language, it kinda depends on the usecase? [05:07:32] quick hack together? python [05:07:40] something speedy? perhaps cpp or rust [05:08:29] a one-file, small server-side thingy? php [05:08:56] We're doomed once more. [05:09:21] I agree. I started out in C++ land with Arduino and got more comfortable but still its a bit out of my comfort zone. I wasn't using pointers but using global vars and switch cases for a project trying to replicate a train sign on a small OLED display connected by I2C [05:09:44] Made a state machine for it using switch case, and thats as far as Ive got for C++ [05:09:49] ah wow lol [05:10:05] i wanna try getting more into hardware-esque stuff, but money [05:10:35] Getting cheap ESP32 boards or Seeduino Xiaos is great for that [05:10:45] Also worth noting: in hardware town, the machine can potentially kill you back. [05:10:51] oh yeah [05:10:59] forgot that dying is a thing [05:11:12] Low risk, but gets higher as you start getting weirder with it. [05:11:43] Something like this is what I use for nearly every hardware project www.seeedstudio.com/Seeeduino-XIAO-3Pcs-p-4546.html [05:12:18] SAMD21 boards are like heavenly when you set them up. Theyre fast and are great for making circuit sculptures with [05:13:18] [1/2] Stuff like this [05:13:18] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330404698317918228/dp6mefuvaaaa-az-e1542481671941-1869935211.jpg?ex=678ddb6d&is=678c89ed&hm=56c89c40a464b415a3fea23000c7e92b9c13c130265a0cdead615f8c9bcf319e& [05:14:21] Oooh neat! [05:14:35] But yeah I love SAMD21 Xiao boards [05:14:44] Compatible with arduino? Hell yeah [05:14:58] The IDE is a bit of a pain but its worth it [05:15:34] Im thinking of trying out Rust on them, considering that theres a core for it [05:19:13] it's back uo [05:19:15] Yay! [05:20:42] Theres a guy called Mohit Bhoite who makes sculptures using Particle boards and they're really cool. He also uses ATtinys too [05:20:53] I'll try to find some pictures [05:22:53] [1/2] They look like little space craft [05:22:53] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330407111741669447/1399573_81_123173_8LEDrQjR0-1351652857.png?ex=678dddad&is=678c8c2d&hm=6770a468f8a85f2f9410da6e985dd5f48f5f90672d8433c616276d61d835ccc1& [06:12:03] [1/2] chat does this make sense? [06:12:03] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330419482958757908/image.png?ex=678de932&is=678c97b2&hm=2bbec33694f86d78978134652b7f45ede049c359e5bd6affc37e13df96907421& [06:15:35] rip auto users [06:15:58] they shall suffer!... [06:16:04] :(( [06:16:12] ok but claire does the code in the screenshot make sense [06:16:26] i spent 2.5 hours rewriting DismissableSiteNotice such that it works without javascript [06:16:40] a bug report made on Mar 7 2007, 12:47 PM [06:16:51] it looks good enough to me [06:17:43] Nice [06:17:46] a [06:18:38] so it [06:18:39] works? [06:18:52] should yea [06:19:31] [1/2] because dark mode isnt supposed to look like this [06:19:32] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330421365064601652/image.png?ex=678deaf3&is=678c9973&hm=76afcfdb7156cdcf971d22399e0e3adf7025312b3f0407b6a5f705568d5ae293& [06:19:33] 💀 [06:20:17] F [06:20:22] idk hsl lol [06:20:29] my brain is goodish with rgb [06:20:36] life is not roblox anymore [06:20:40] even i dont understand it [06:20:50] lol [06:22:55] looks like hex works [06:22:57] but not hsl [06:23:02] im perplexed by this. [06:32:38] i have an idea for this theme [06:34:12] this pitch black theme is called "void", and i want to make it so that when you switch to citizen's light mode, the name of the theme changes to the opposite of void [06:34:16] is that possible? [06:42:48] :root.skin-theme-clientpref-night [06:56:43] aight epic [06:57:04] also how do make it so that user groups cant edit pages and upload files [06:57:09] and do other stuff [06:57:37] i want to make it so that only admins can edit stuff and upload files, in the event some random user does something [06:58:32] Special:ManageWiki/permissions [06:59:21] i only see the option to prevent people editing [06:59:25] what about uploading files [07:02:20] did you check unassigned permissions ? [07:03:02] just checked it [07:03:36] thanks brah [07:48:33] [1/4] @notaracham I don't mean to bother -- this SR was marked as Done even though none of the changes were made.. [07:48:33] [2/4] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330443768779767820/image.png?ex=678dffd0&is=678cae50&hm=70a0a9d5684c70f77ac4852a29772971055b3d01ae79fa1b4f6c58573982f43c& [07:48:34] [3/4] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330443769018974240/image.png?ex=678dffd0&is=678cae50&hm=1cb18142dd7af0ae7304fb871a25e6d5c32792473705351101b74da0670d9ef7& [07:48:34] [4/4] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330443769446924319/image.png?ex=678dffd1&is=678cae51&hm=464fa81cc80d4f96207f7b4cb677987faf08d1b3dbeb8ee7eea6ddfcb0755b67& [07:51:30] It handled itself. 😄 [07:51:42] Some of the extensions sometimes take a hot second to recognize that they're installed [07:51:52] Sorry about that lol, I was a little confused for a sec [07:53:30] I do understand the guides but I was wondering if the team will ever create guides in simple English. [07:56:38] I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this? Are you referring to the guides written by the extension authors + community on mediawiki.org? [07:56:53] as I meant the Miraheze guides [07:57:17] I'm somehow better at English than Vietnamese but even I feel like they use a bit too much high-level and complex words [07:58:01] Man it's taking quite a long time 😅 Is it normal for the changes to not show in the managewiki log? [07:58:35] We don't really (for the most part) maintain user guides for specific extensions, but the complexity of mediawiki (and how to make it easier for new wiki admins) is something we're thinking about. [07:59:19] I also feel like there should be a comprehensive guide to basically everything that a new wiki admin actually needs [07:59:53] because fromy my experience guidess have like 99% useless specific and like 1% actually useful things [08:00:03] The initial thought behind miraheze was to simplify hosting, not the actual wiki management process. Initially it was geared very much towards veterans who didn't want to run their own hardware. [08:00:13] oh [08:00:42] The modern incarnation though def. has made strides towards approachability and ease of use for newcomers, though clearly more way to go on that front. [08:01:16] As overwhelming as it is, one-click installations/settings changes through managewiki are a huge game changer [08:01:45] may I ask if you have time rn? i need help with one single uselsss meta thing that some people I've talked to still haven't figured out [08:01:56] so we've been discussing what type of government Miraheze is [08:02:18] Once I do the initial enable change in managewiki, the rest is all silent backend stuff [08:02:34] we've come to a: federal semi-constitutional socialist democratic Mirahezian Confederation [08:02:35] I dont see the change in managewiki for some reason [08:03:39] I'd give it a bit, if you don't see everything working as intended, time to chat with tech about it on issue-tracker.miraheze.org [08:04:19] But yes, due to how those installs go, I wouldn't trust the managewiki logs on this one. [08:04:24] [1/6] Federal = wikis have their own ru,es [08:04:24] [2/6] Semi-constitutional = for the ToS but semi because some wikis as you know don't follow them [08:04:24] [3/6] Socialist = ex-steward said this made sense [08:04:25] [4/6] Democracy = the community votes for stuff [08:04:25] [5/6] Mirahezian = term I came up with to explain the volunteer system [08:04:25] [6/6] Confederation = We are sorta a confederation with the Stewards and whatnot as the Central Governmenf (sorta) while Wikis are member states [08:04:46] i was wondering if there were any changes possible to this [08:07:57] If you were to take further inspiration from historical examples, Stewards also function as a sort of village ealdorman role - we acquire our role through building community trust and proving quality of our judgement or some great service of benefit to our community, our inherent powers and claim to the title crumble when that trust is lost. [08:11:14] Ehh I think that's not gonna change much. Thank you for za help. [08:11:27] how do i make it so that a tooltip appears when an image has been hovered? tried `.mw-indicator img:hover .kindatooltip` but doesnt seem to work [08:12:23] now that I think about it in the future when AI is smart enough the questions channel is gonna be basically useless [08:27:02] this is resolved [08:27:58] No problem. It's late for me and I've been fighting a migraine for most of day. [08:30:24] One thing I think was missed is that Stewards/T&S have substantial leeway in evicting wikis from the platform when they veer off from content policy, though this is something we generally try to give opportunities for resolution on. [08:31:02] Which is to say, wikis are free to operate with rules beyond the global set, but if they run afoul of global rules, they may be asked to take themselves elsewhere. [08:33:05] Generally covered under the federal/confederation bullet points, but the reality is a touch less decentralized than that might imply to some folks [08:36:00] Cargo sure is taking it's time to enable... [08:36:16] There might be a problem tech-wise [08:36:27] It's been almost an hour since you enabled it [08:36:37] I could try toggling it to see if that makes a difference. [08:36:42] Go ahea [08:41:06] I wonder if it's being weird because of custom domain. Hmmm [08:41:12] Looks like it worked this time [08:41:26] [1/2] Showed up in the logs as well [08:41:26] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330457077079871558/image.png?ex=678e0c35&is=678cbab5&hm=5647326f77ab307049a2d7a5d97ddf7b8678d8f544349b556d23c9209b7899b1& [08:41:31] Alrighty, well working is better than not working [08:42:09] Alright, and now it shows in extension list too, great [08:42:26] With that, need to go to bed [08:42:31] same lmao [09:32:16] I tried forsaken and it's broken I got 18900exp with perfect and 12600exp with no perfect [09:44:25] Whaaat [10:04:51] like the roblox one ? [10:05:06] Yeah [10:05:52] havent tried forsaken but this isnt even the server for the game [12:06:09] [1/2] goddamn it 💀 [12:06:09] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330508595963629659/image.png?ex=678e3c30&is=678ceab0&hm=3d4038d8a89b2705aa1a83d38c31735ff9b4eb802362cbe247f18be5fd030e75& [12:06:40] [1/2] what [12:06:41] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330508728679796768/image.png?ex=678e3c50&is=678cead0&hm=770550cc904bde5d61735075771d495b36aa0aa99dd3e9cd230b2aa5159c3176& [12:06:53] was about to complain about the same [12:07:00] bad gateway [12:07:08] okay its fine now i think [12:07:09] here [12:07:12] gateways are misbehaving 👿 [12:07:14] 503 errors come back [12:07:36] its back!! [12:07:42] no nevermind its inconsistent [12:08:15] That's not supposed to happen [12:14:24] <0phiuchus.> 1d6chan.miraheze is also reporting 503 errors. I know it’ll be fixed when it’s fixed (we have huge faith) just letting you chaps know. [12:14:25] i’m getting bad gateway errors, just me or? [12:14:35] <0phiuchus., replying to eatyourglory> Not just you. [12:14:40] hi glory [12:14:51] hey there [12:15:11] generally i have to click again to get to page [12:15:14] I have a theory although not a good one [12:15:26] ants are eating the wires [12:15:42] [1/2] meta is running vector 1990 rn [12:15:43] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330511001644433459/image.png?ex=678e3e6e&is=678cecee&hm=f5905d53cd0d61706bc2ceabd4c8a8cf78f4f76e0f2c8095613ba1d1acc82938& [12:17:15] when nostalgia does styling better ^ [12:17:43] Everything looks generally grumpy tbh [12:17:59] one of those days [12:18:19] Yes definitely [12:18:39] I think something has got upset which is causing more pressure on other stuff so they get upset too [12:20:21] is that actually how vector looked like in 1990 lol [12:20:23] cloudfare errors? [12:20:38] okey [12:20:46] vector came out in 2002... [12:20:51] ohhh [12:20:53] look at c2.com [12:20:53] before vector was monobook [12:20:56] i thought it came out way earlier 💀 [12:20:57] again, have a glance at the nostalgia skin [12:21:03] except it at least does horizontal too [12:21:05] https://tenor.com/bDPsP.gif [12:21:45] non customised monobook does look truly old [12:22:15] the smash wiki uses monobook i think [12:22:33] bro doesnt know where wikipedia came from [12:22:49] they indeed do [12:22:50] i actually dont know [12:31:29] what the actual fuck is up with miraheze?? [12:31:29] @twink_fantasy Watch your language. [12:31:36] why is nothing loading? [12:31:42] look at announcements [12:31:46] 2 pints of patience will assist [12:31:50] ok [12:32:06] though right now it seems a bit longer than the hopeful 30 minutes mentioned [12:32:17] #announcements from overnight is not the same issue [12:32:30] then there should be a post for current known concern [12:32:43] I don't think anyone with access to the main one has arrived yet [12:32:45] if nothing else to note that it may be a while if no other information is available [12:32:53] im prettty sure the wiki i was on was alright at that time [12:32:56] Was about to come post. Wikis are up but it's extremely slow. [12:32:59] I pinged tech about 20 minutes ago [12:33:02] Like it too me 30s to load the home page. [12:33:12] also i keep getting errors [12:33:19] I guess using a major ping in the minor pings section could work [12:33:35] I suspect the underlying factors are probably the same but it's its own incident [12:33:40] but at this point the trouble finding people to announce stuff in a timely manner means we may as well open up the channel a bit more and include guidelines [12:33:56] mods and proper tech access with 'ok here's what to post and how' [12:34:14] [1/2] Maybe the default pings should change? I didn't get a ping in the announcements [12:34:14] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330515663793422440/image.png?ex=678e42c6&is=678cf146&hm=2bd7d7012d497bb04fdf2aa9429b4dfd1bccc8048de0174ec4ac21fb75df4e24& [12:34:24] there is a dedicated role for it [12:34:28] Oh. [12:34:40] see #info-and-rules [12:34:53] what was posted earlier didn't use that ping though [12:35:19] I'd say it should be the first stop for people wondering why something is wrong (in this case a bit of backreading too) but announcements can be sluggish to catch up with latest events [12:35:24] oh ffs its going through maintenance [12:35:54] maintenance 🙂‍↕️🙂‍↕️ [12:36:10] Well I guess I'll come back in 30 minutes [12:36:45] Looks like paladox has shown up [12:36:56] Probably circuit breaked it [12:37:41] Wait is it back online [12:38:35] don't expect it to be set for a little while yet [12:38:51] all too common might people see it snappy for a few seconds but the root issue is not dealt with [12:38:55] Not yet [12:39:02] "This wiki is temporarily unavailable" [12:39:10] It should be less cascading though [12:39:16] You're either down or up [12:40:36] its up ! [12:46:41] didn't we just have a short error earlier [12:46:48] the servers getting cooked [12:47:09] apparently it may be an offshoot of the previous issue if rhinos's estimation is correct [12:47:24] hopefully there will be some summary/'hey this is what happened' [12:47:44] how does the tech team fix stuff if it's a problem on-site [12:47:56] most problems are not literally on site ie physical [12:48:04] it's something server level that they remotely log in to figure out [12:48:10] oh [12:48:17] if [12:48:28] do we just send WTF people [12:48:31] the datacenter is called to handle because overwhelmingly that's going to be their problem [12:48:41] which has happened [12:48:49] so I'm confused [12:48:58] do the people running the data center get paid? [12:49:14] everyone using it pays the data center and the data center has staff from that, yes [12:49:47] and if they fuck something up it is an industry standard to expect them to fix it in a timely way [12:50:07] i may be dumb but is the money from the fundraiser used to pay them? [12:50:09] now if it's something software level that's none of their business then miraheze tech needs to log in and figure it out, which overwhelmingly happens in an off time where few people can address it [12:50:28] money from the fundraiser significantly goes to the datacenter to provide hosting yes [12:50:54] you could say miraheze is an abstraction that does all the software land stuff [12:50:57] where does the rest of the money go then? [12:51:00] savings? [12:51:07] *emergency [12:51:12] stored to pay for future bills basically [12:51:21] yep correct [12:51:33] what even are servers [12:51:36] is it just a card [12:51:37] some funds go to other matters like the email provider [12:51:41] servers are computers [12:51:45] or like PC computers [12:51:59] but without the screen oart [12:52:04] they're like PC computers but built where they shoot data all over the internet instead of being used by a person [12:52:21] they tend to do things for a whole heck of a lot of people at once [12:52:54] I believe miraheze has dedicated servers so we at least are the only ones doing anything with our drives and immediate resources, but we're still in a room with countless other computers being used for other people's stuff [12:52:56] what did the people up top even do for all the volunteers to turn into john cenas june-december 2023 [12:53:21] that was in good part my fault and what happened there is a bit long/extends before june [12:54:40] [1/2] there were a few events that laid groundwork, I think the first one was where there was an internal channel on this server used to discuss things and in it someone had said some mean words about a member on miraheze. Those messages were leaked out, people got mad about someone shooting around semi-confidential messages like that, other people didn't like the existence of a 'cabal' co [12:54:41] [2/2] nsisting of volunteers and some senior ex volunteers [12:55:26] at that point a steward quit, a tech at the time quit (who's now the chief of tech here), bad feelings mounted and the user who was talked about went off some more [12:56:06] where do i put that [12:56:34] (alr I gtg go shower you can keep talking) [12:56:34] I tried putting it at the bottom but it d idnt work [12:58:03] [1/2] most of may ended up being battles about that user, who could not be resolved with the usual tools. He was very good at skimming between the lines to not get sanctioned or to create an extreme fuss when he was. And a huge portion of volunteers including most stewards except one were 'involved' ie had a run in with him at some point that made them less than best to handle it. Basicall [12:58:03] [2/2] y mismanagement there and the user exploited it. Eventually I reached a point where I called him out and called every bluff, laid the situation out bluntly, and traded steward decorum for being the only person in the community who tackled him head on which of course he did not like. [12:58:34] God there's been so much traffic in here whilst i was eeping beep beep [13:00:05] [1/2] it escalated to a report to trust and safety alleging harassment; at the time T&S decided there was not harassment but recommended some terms I follow. I elected to resign as I'd been pissed off by how everything was handled including that investigation and lack of ability to deal with the problem with any other format. Then I told off someone for going over the line on an RfC to com [13:00:06] [2/2] munity ban that user, and that was taken as a breach of what were suddenly hard restrictions for which I was trust and safety banned. The time of this can be seen on my centralauth [13:03:30] [1/3] other stewards and tech very much did not like that and promptly resigned to go all in on wikitide, a farm intended to get around the horrible inefficiencies of miraheze. Miraheze at that point teetered on shutdown because most of the skilled labor was gone and who was left did not feel like handling it anymore, hence shutdown notices of the time. Labster and zppix went wait wait wai [13:03:30] [2/3] t and put plans for an american takeover entity in the works, and that was in limbo till around december, where some poorly chosen words lead to owen (trust and safety director/one of two remaining board members) pressing the issue. At that same time wikitide offered to take over/reintegrate back into miraheze. It then became a vote to assimilate to wikitide, the miraheze foundation, [13:03:30] [3/3] something else I forgot about, or shut down. Wikitide succeeded including to bring in labster for a board role and the rest is history. A new T&S director was found who disagreed that my ban was substantive and lifted it [13:03:44] some time after was my third stewardship term and that's pretty much the gist [13:04:08] I went in some detail including the email I recieved in an essay which I will now dig up [13:05:07] [1/2] looking at that essay some details shift around but the gist holds up (for example after the blowback owen had resigned from trust and safety, leaving us without any until harej) [13:05:08] [2/2] [13:06:08] I should also remark that agent was T&S (the sole responder, not the director) at the time and did not support the decision, and indeed was one of the ones to leave [13:06:57] the Miraheze tea is spilling hot [13:07:29] it’s really cold tea if anything [13:07:42] miraheze has a long history and other events including different people and groups [13:07:52] that was not the first time john quit, but so far it was the last [13:08:06] john being the steward lost in the first bit [13:08:26] also a founder of the platform and the chief mind of tech at the time [13:10:18] who's john [13:11:15] John Wick [13:11:26] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330525026759213087/image0.gif?ex=678e4b7e&is=678cf9fe&hm=d34ffe62982bd825c9e6ed6b1c1d6bfb216f6ad824fb7ecd9435ca4963381e65& [13:11:42] https://tenor.com/view/still-water-water-abandoned-scare-phobia-gif-3310552605142978311 [13:35:06] Fascinating. I remembered social media was covering Miraheze being shutdown and then later being revived. [14:01:41] yeah, that whole thing was a roller coaster [16:32:47] how do I make the images in the slider show thing if that makes sense? [16:33:28] [1/3] I put ```World Map 1914 Wars.png|War Map Mode in the World 1914 Scenario [16:33:28] [2/3] World Map 1914 Alliances.png|Alliances Map Mode in the World 1914 Scenario [16:33:29] [3/3] World Map 1914 Puppets.png|Puppets Map Mode in the World 1914 Scenario/gallery``` and it js put 3 seperate images [16:37:11] No john Lewis [16:37:51] do yk how? [16:38:46] I’m barely awake and not of the mind to remember this [16:38:51] ok- [16:39:18] guys how do i disable the parser [16:39:45] What [16:40:06] my infoboxes broke after the parser just randomly enabled [16:40:56] Your message is unclear. The parser cannot be disabled, it is core to the running of MediaWiki. [16:41:15] (Conversely the parser is always running so confused about how it "randomly enabled") [16:41:24] it was working fine before [16:41:33] can you send a link of your broken infobox? [16:42:04] https://evolvethreed.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_creature [16:42:16] i made it using the portable infobox maker [16:42:21] or whatever its called [16:42:22] Enable the PortableInfobox extension. [16:43:10] i did it but its still broken [16:43:31] Fixed [16:44:14] [1/2] its still not rendering properly [16:44:14] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330578579209326633/image.png?ex=678e7d5e&is=678d2bde&hm=4964f800d3ecc3543e99d4abaac591e7e66b173a2ac1fe7b457306ae65c52915& [16:44:36] refresh [16:44:41] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330578691595440179/image.png?ex=678e7d79&is=678d2bf9&hm=5f4dc6dcef03779d6295c0c10d708e4e1a59087f6bb5a809cd75ee593f33b718& [16:44:48] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330578721618395198/image.png?ex=678e7d80&is=678d2c00&hm=06f225740e1c37b9ce857086346b05d96934c0aeb33cac70f8c4c2764848ae72& [16:45:03] [1/2] heres the source code [16:45:04] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330578785505902602/image.png?ex=678e7d8f&is=678d2c0f&hm=badd8f4cf33c2a434d1a021574f52d4a24bece11478084e36de7c8a116bbd1c1& [16:47:50] [1/2] This is an interesting file name [16:47:50] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330579482922193078/image.png?ex=678e7e35&is=678d2cb5&hm=0f02bb3bb2a164926914c4895db0a714fec4124b1ad9d7177a65ff282f292332& [16:47:54] ikr [17:10:38] <.guardianx.> [1/4] Anyone know how to associate images with the search box? [17:10:38] <.guardianx.> [2/4] I have them associated with the page [17:10:39] <.guardianx.> [3/4] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330585221388701737/image.png?ex=678e838d&is=678d320d&hm=55bef964bc420377c600d144ad88698a2d2bdf86a2ac5e6d13be0089ae5dbddf& [17:10:39] <.guardianx.> [4/4] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330585221925703835/image.png?ex=678e838d&is=678d320d&hm=2eeaf847ceac26c4b4797ed2681868f6f5a4716f6fbee017cdac72b863114f75& [17:14:38] disable parsoid [17:15:02] PageImages extension [17:15:16] Although it won't always select an image, but you can manually define one [17:20:48] how do i disable the parsoid [17:25:45] [1/2] either disable `wgParserMigrationEnableParsoidArticlePages` if you enabled it or disable the option seen in the image in your preferences [17:25:45] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330589024103960606/1280px-ParserMigration_extension_user_preferences.png?ex=678e8718&is=678d3598&hm=2dcea8084700504ceace34d0879bb4e13666617551ed7fc3fd106d360eeeb4b1& [17:27:13] thanks! [17:27:34] np [17:30:25] Sorry where do i apply to change the name of my wiki again? someone told me but i had to focus on real life and now i cant remember xD [17:33:14] If it doesn't entail a scope change (or you've already gotten one approved), you can file a domain change request on issue-tracker.miraheze.org [17:39:09] ive had a wiki for quite a while now, i just wanna change the domain name xD [17:39:28] that's the onlyp lace for it [17:39:44] unless all you want is to change the display name which is in managewiki [17:40:01] No, ive already done that, i just wanna change the adress [17:40:22] then again, [[phorge]] is the place [17:40:23] [17:40:34] which is the same as the address NA mentioned [17:40:45] "request configuration changes"? [17:40:52] i guess [17:41:01] that should do it yes [17:41:31] the account i login with should bve the same as i login with on my own wiki right? for some reason its not working [17:48:02] Mhm it seems my account doesnt work? o.o [17:49:30] Yup [17:49:34] What error do you get? [17:49:54] just that its not registered which is wierd because i use the same credentials on my own wiki [17:50:40] Have you used the login with mediawiki button @ladynanuia [17:50:45] You need to click that [17:52:51] Yep, use that button instead of trying to log in with your MH user and pass [17:53:08] oh [17:53:14] It'll briefly switch you over to miraheze meta to verify your credentials, then let you in [17:53:21] let me try that [17:55:07] okay i was able to login...trying to figure out how this thing works now xD [17:55:11] didn't we hide that form [17:55:22] No [17:55:22] so people would not be distracted by a contradicting login input [17:55:27] we should [17:56:51] I'm not sure we can [17:57:05] Right so [17:59:26] I very much hope we can try because that has long time been terrible ux [18:00:14] maybe im daft but i cannot navigate this thing at all lol [18:01:48] Daft is a good way to describe mediawiki [18:01:54] xD [18:02:00] so where the blazes do i go. [18:02:07] i logged in and im on the issue tracker front page [18:02:28] 3 lines and then Maniphest [18:02:50] Then click the arrow and you'll see a bunch of create options [18:03:17] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330598471807275081/image.png?ex=678e8fe5&is=678d3e65&hm=bd330899f2ce057af27e1be71c1445bb3d3e67147453973e6cb51198fe97978e& [18:03:19] i see Maniphest [18:03:20] xD [18:03:58] Click Maniphest [18:04:35] did [18:04:50] Do you see some options to create a task [18:04:57] yea [18:05:00] feature request etc [18:05:13] Click the create task option [18:05:35] Actually click feature request [18:06:04] i found a form 22 [18:06:10] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330599198202134662/image.png?ex=678e9092&is=678d3f12&hm=6c23a4a1db8f25f0ba861d0955aac745976eafe47442cf47b609a0f1aee165b0& [18:06:15] but [18:06:18] priority and assigned to? [18:06:22] and subscriberS? [18:06:25] man this is complicated xD [18:06:29] skip all those [18:06:49] another thing that would be nice to have in the form since it's usually people post-creation that will then triage [18:07:09] to mention/edit in the form I should say [18:07:10] Oh cool [18:07:16] so [18:07:19] do i check A or B? [18:07:20] Why we don't hide them on the forms I don't know [18:07:26] xD [18:07:32] That's a question for you [18:07:36] Is the scope changing [18:07:42] I believe that each image has to be on it's own line [18:07:55] its just a name change of the server its used for [18:07:56] basically [18:08:02] its a gaming server that we changed name on [18:08:04] the rest stays the same [18:08:20] so just A then i guess? [18:10:29] if the scope is not changing then A [18:10:47] B would be a change in the purpose of the wiki which would seek steward authorization [18:10:53] oh no [18:10:56] its the same server and everything [18:10:57] just the name [18:10:59] so A is fine then [18:11:00] so A [18:11:16] [1/2] so is this it then? [18:11:16] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330600480849793096/image.png?ex=678e91c3&is=678d4043&hm=b553ec7c41724ca49f6b27238743d93537a3bf78ea2de64e6c9ffbb697a95246& [18:11:21] update links and everything of course, let people know as there's no redirect to the new domain [18:11:22] i did submit and it took me there [18:11:34] it appears you are successful [18:11:44] You are yes [18:11:53] i guess it takes a while [18:11:56] 😄 [18:12:01] it will take a bit to be processed I expect [18:12:05] thats fine [18:12:09] at least ive done what i can then [18:12:11] thank you a bunch guys [18:12:12] truely [18:12:15] np [18:12:17] 💜 [18:12:28] it's not super intuitive and this reminds me of it [18:12:51] im not going to complain due to it being a free service [18:12:56] i know some people are entitled like that but [18:13:08] constructively can't hurt [18:13:16] yea but entitlement is rarely constructive [18:13:18] xD [18:13:20] of course, critique is best served with willingness to resolve the problem [18:13:27] but not everyone's a programmer so [18:13:28] as someone who runs a server for free [18:13:36] i was shocked at how entitled some people are [18:13:40] like, just wow xD [18:13:48] it can get ugly [18:13:55] but those cases aren't terribly common on miraheze [18:14:02] i understand that if people pay for a product [18:14:06] they have expectations and all that [18:14:09] for sure [18:14:19] but if something is free, why on earth would you complain [18:14:23] either use it, or dont [18:14:24] lol [18:15:13] in the case of miraheze, raise grievence, but either bring willingness to address the problem yourself (many many things would be nice but require people to volunteer for them, and few if any permissions are needed for many of them to proceed) or be understanding if you won't/can't [18:23:21] Oh? [18:23:37] well i run a gaming server for an old game [18:23:41] thats what my wiki is for xD [18:23:54] Hell yea [18:23:55] and since im not charging anyone [18:24:00] o7 [18:24:14] peoples entitlement can be pretty insane [18:24:17] most people are chill and good [18:24:21] but there are some..holy hell [18:24:25] We’ve seen a bit of that yeah [18:24:43] I’m thinking of a few people we’ve kicked out of here [18:24:52] but like 99% are good ppl honestly [18:24:57] yep [18:24:58] its just the 1% that are loud and toxic as fck [18:24:58] But there are also so many kind and awesome people in this community [18:25:01] its so polarising [18:25:04] the bad ones, are REALLY bad [18:25:09] like [18:25:11] it can be easy to get stuck on the worst [18:25:21] its never that someone is kinda toxic [18:25:25] they are either extremely or not at all [18:25:35] cough Nale [18:25:36] I've been guilty in getting caught up with the stressy stuff and that dominating pretty much my entire outlook/experience [18:25:43] that one was kinda special [18:25:54] if they're really really really problematic you can usually give them a smack and be on your way [18:26:02] Yeah [18:26:14] i nerfed something on my server and got death threats in DM xD [18:26:16] if they know how to toe the line and you have practice/procedure that ties your hands a bit and you're conflict averse, you get what happened there [18:26:18] thats a first for me [18:26:25] like see, I've gotten those, I just laugh at them [18:26:27] usually the toxic is just trashy and rude [18:26:33] but a death threat, this was a milestone for me [18:26:36] 🤣 [18:27:06] pretty insane behaviour like..youre using a product for free and theres a change you donjt like so you ..DM the owner with death threats? [18:27:06] I’m pleasantly surprised I haven’t gotten fire [18:27:06] but there's some really bad stuff that is saddening and unfortunately possible to encounter moderating at scale... or you get people who inch between the lines and are difficult to deal with [18:27:14] i cant even begin to comprehend the logic there [18:27:20] I barely even get messages on my talk page, let alone death threats [18:27:31] Maybe just the parts I interact with [18:27:33] also, there were several people in his defense until the end, who essentially shielded from consequence or discouraged taking more aggressive action [18:27:50] high profile volunteers [18:28:27] in the end they either flipped or abstained but it was the case until essentially after I was gobsmacked by TS [18:33:09] Logic is overrated [18:34:45] in todays Tiktok world i suppose so [18:34:46] 🤣 [18:34:56] Sigh [18:35:02] brainrot 2025 😄 [18:35:10] This is why I love the wiki world [18:35:22] Especially like Wikipedia [18:35:38] We built a culture around civility and discussion and consensus [18:35:43] i had someone ask me how i feel about Tiktok being banned in the US and how it will effect me and im like..who cares? xD [18:35:43] Around community [18:35:50] And the sillies at times [18:36:22] Sadly it’s probably have significant indirect effects [18:36:40] But i presume you don’t want to discuss politics and neither do i [18:36:43] Had similar questions for all sorts of thing and each time I was like "I'm in France, it doesn't touch me" and they couldn't comprehend in many cases [18:37:25] oh not at all, im just surprised how popular the damn thing is [18:37:26] xD [18:37:35] like i tried using it for a few minutes [18:37:47] i literally felt like my IQ was dropping [18:37:48] 😄 [18:38:07] not talking politics or anything [18:38:11] just why do people like it so much [18:38:17] i just dont get it ? [18:40:48] Idk [18:41:17] I scroll on YT shorts a bit but [18:46:38] Mayhaps best not to [18:46:50] I’ll just stick to wiki and fedi [18:47:24] Pix the Hard Wiki-er [18:47:45] Wiki-ing is verb now, deal with it 😛 [18:47:54] Always has been [18:48:17] To Wiki [18:48:17] I need to finish something and work on my slideshows for Wikipedia day next week [18:48:19] 😂 [18:48:48] Wiki is the closest thing to a job I have that’s not my job [18:49:12] I’ve certainly spent a lot more time on wiki then my job(I don’t get lots of hours tbf) [18:49:29] Still waiting on my boss to send out the call sheet [18:50:35] Wiki! [18:51:05] You at least have a job, not like me XD [18:51:22] Eh [18:51:35] It’s a part time thing at a local place I do when I do [18:51:46] Im still a high schooler after all [18:52:20] Yeah yeah.. I responded to many offers and yet still get blocked by "lack of experience" but no one gives any 😭 [18:53:17] Job market in 2025 alas [18:53:35] I think a lot of that is ignorant hr firms with inflated expectations tbh [18:53:59] Who knows maybe by the time I go apply for tech jobs my experience in miraheze and other stuff will spare me from the abyss [18:54:55] Best bet is probably to make a friend or otherwise be seen in the business itself; then you are a person, not a number [18:55:34] We also live in an age where some postings exist to harvest data [18:56:34] Sadly [18:56:38] https://tenor.com/view/sounds-simple-enough-lieutenant-commander-andy-billups-star-trek-lower-decks-that%27s-easy-enough-paramount-plus-gif-10527814680340080368 [19:02:55] Ha [19:26:54] learn php it will make you so employable!!! [19:26:57] _said nobody ever_ [19:32:18] [1/2] Hm, @robkam since I see you’ve been working on the how to guides quite a bit(big thanks a:hearts:), wanted to ask your opinion. I’ve been considering making a specific ‘how do I create a wiki’ page (partly to show in search results, planning on adding keywords with WikiSEO) since lots of the info is on the special page. Do you think that’s in scope to be in the how to pages, general [19:32:19] [2/2] help space, or main space? [19:32:40] @robkam (first ping failed) [19:34:06] the line between how to and help space is rather blurry [19:36:10] I was actually just thinking about that but I was going to make it a page on miraheze.org [19:38:14] it might be best to keep on meta, more maintainable and in line with other documentation imo [19:39:09] Yeah [19:39:14] We can protect if needed [19:39:27] Btw you know SEO right [19:39:37] my favorite spam [19:39:42] yes [19:39:43] oh, the other seo [19:40:04] yes but placing it on miraheze.org would result in better SEO and freer design [19:40:14] Think so? [19:40:15] not a how-to, more of a “Create a wiki” landing [19:40:22] there is plus and minus to both [19:40:40] if it's more for advert/awareness purposes I guess it would be fine especially if it can be complimented by a proper how to [19:40:58] Maybe make a non indexed page on wiki that we clone to landing [19:41:03] So we keep the anyone can edit [19:41:24] if it's not meant to get into the weeds much it would probably be fine [20:27:51] is using a miraheze wiki as a kind of blog and personal website allowed? [20:29:08] If only as a blog or personal website then no [20:29:23] A wiki having blog or personal pages are fine [20:43:30] what about a wiki for showcasing your “internet career” so to speak? [20:43:58] like a kind of internet curriculum vitae [20:44:48] I think of Help pages more like glossary pages/to explain the concepts while How-to guides are more like telling the reader how to get something specific achieved. [20:54:40] No idea but I think it's fine [20:56:16] Apparently personal wikis are allowed [20:59:21] Why a wiki and not like a blogsite? [20:59:44] I think you mean a "My wiki has been created. What do I do now?" that would be okay as a How-to guide, even a meta how-to guide, possibly text for the How-to guides page itself, more than just the list there now. [21:00:22] Thanks for the thanks 🙂 [21:01:15] No, i mean like https://community.fandom.com/wiki/Help:Start_a_new_community [21:02:54] as long as they have at least a bit of meat to them [21:03:04] imo a how to under a paragraph is a stub in desperate need of expansion [21:03:23] plus references for further information [21:10:32] Yes, most of the how tos need expansion, and should include some explanatory content. [21:13:43] 'How do I (successfully) request a wiki?' [21:15:10] wp:be bold [21:16:53] 'create a wiki' makes me think of Special:RequestWiki [21:24:31] hm? [21:39:08] above you wrote ‘how do I create a wiki’ - that's makes me think it's like the page at https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Meta:Wiki_creators%27_guide [21:41:01] only because of the word 'create' [21:42:12] part of why I like the change to 'reviewer' as a term [21:42:34] it's not perfect but it lets 'creator' remain in the vocabulary of the person who 'created' the wiki in the eyes of the wiki's users [21:52:17] imported wikis have been created outside of Miraheze [21:54:52] some of them are external and others are internal [21:54:56] there are quite a few origins [22:05:08] Yeah you created some really good ones today. Looked through them 🙂 [22:15:14] I really really need to know who Dave is [22:15:16] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:RequestWikiQueue/53794 [22:15:38] Dave sounds like a very interesting guy [22:22:11] I agree and also want to know more about dave [22:25:56] what are miraheze's pros and cons? [22:27:27] that can be a long story [22:27:38] depending which aspect is of interest [22:27:56] [1/3] pros: [22:27:57] [2/3] free [22:27:57] [3/3] cons: [22:30:10] Anyone familiar with the tabberneue extension? I'm trying to write a very simple template that lets me name the tabs, but it's just inputting literal `{{{tab1name}}}` instead of the argument of the template. [22:30:34] design-wise [22:31:53] pro [22:31:55] no ads [22:32:22] i don't care about ads honestly [22:32:47] I didn't think it was possible to see these words uttered [22:33:30] [1/2] the biggest parity I'd say is that miraheze is free in price, in its root code, and more so than many projects in liberty; it is designed to be by and for the community, and it is quite flexible. On the other side it lacks big money, is not terribly well coordinated, has no service guarantee necessarily, is utterly reliant on community give-back or it will struggle to provide, and it [22:33:30] [2/2] s flexibility has a sharp edge for people expecting a polished experience [22:34:03] I'd assume those are the biggest comparisons but there are other aspects [22:34:08] hmm [22:34:21] good enough for me [22:35:21] I would also add from a practical useage standpoint [22:35:27] customization and power [22:35:38] flexibility was meant to cover those [22:35:45] as well as project liberty [22:35:48] We offer more [[extensions]] then any other farm by far [22:35:48] [22:36:13] We’ve had some users write their own extensions to add features they want and request they be added [22:36:21] how i LOVE extensions [22:36:27] we can add any extensions really if it passes security review [22:36:31] Just takes a bit [22:36:42] You can also directly edit settings [22:36:47] Tons in [[ManageWiki]] [22:36:48] [22:36:57] [1/2] something you pay for or even something like fandom expects you to beat the crap out of it and give nothing; they're getting paid or they harvest your data with ads so it's fine, they're also backed by big dev teams paid for a baseline. Miraheze can be leeched on but will be less for it if constituents give nothing back. It is not paid except by its users, it does not have industry s [22:36:58] [2/2] tandard predatory technology, it cannot give guarantees as seen with today's blips. It only offers the goodwill of people willing to do what everyone else does for money, for free [22:37:02] but if you need to make actual backend code changes, we do allow that [22:37:08] In limited ways [22:37:48] The users and community also have control [22:38:11] off-topic but, what is this 'anti-fandom' that i heard about? [22:38:25] Me and raidarr both have “power” in our roles(Discord Mod, global admin, formerly steward) as a direct result of the community granting it in an election [22:38:35] The website or sentiment? [22:38:39] do you mean the anti fandom alliance or [22:38:45] website [22:38:46] I think that's hosted on shoutwiki [22:38:53] no [22:38:58] anti wikia alliance is probably what I'm thinking [22:38:59] its an alternative frontent [22:39:05] the software is breezewiki [22:39:07] yeah, I was thinking of something else then [22:39:14] antifandom is one instance [22:39:26] just replacw any fandom url with antifandom.com [22:39:33] no ads, more privacy [22:39:39] ie uh [22:39:41] breezewiki is what I know that one as [22:39:48] Fandom's empire is slowly waning as more people get fed up with their ads, way of conduct, and predatory behaviors [22:39:54] [[fandom:stoneworksmc:Lux]] [22:39:54] [22:40:07] https://stoneworksmc.antifandom.com/wiki/Lux [22:40:12] and does it have more privacy [22:40:25] And its broken [22:40:25] antifandom was just rate limited it seems [22:40:36] well you’re not directly accessing fandom [22:40:44] So the trackers and ads arent there [22:40:56] with ublock origin, they are also generally not there [22:40:56] [1/2] that's a "nice" layout [22:40:56] [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1330668344050978886/Screenshot_20250119-194039.png?ex=678ed0f7&is=678d7f77&hm=4f55d047304e67405387b7cce46f1b314216fd6b51f7c22d825b0d51095955de& [22:41:05] ah [22:41:12] There's a thing on the internet called alternative frontend, and these stuff does enhance your privacy a lot [22:41:28] No mouse or touch tracking [22:41:29] there's alternative frontends for all kinds of things, reliability varies but some can be quite nifty [22:41:40] reddit, youtube, fandom, tiktok, more [22:41:41] Seems to be intended for desktop lol [22:42:01] RIP mobile users then [22:42:10] the snow looks so nice out [22:42:16] If that's a miraheze site, not sure why [22:42:21] Miraheze supports mobile ui [22:42:31] it's antifandom [22:42:34] Ah [22:42:56] out of the box miraheze has a mobile extension but you could also just deliberately say screw mobile and do something like vector 2010 default there [22:43:14] (and does it a lot more better than both AntiFANDOM and FANDOM itself) [22:43:14] which I'd prefer over minerva but I digress [22:43:26] I sometimes edit my wiki on the go so I'm glad for the mobile support [22:43:50] Although desktop will always reign supreme for wikis especially imo. [22:44:28] Wait, so is Anti-Fandom (the site) a wikifarm that's sole motivation is competing with Fandom? [22:45:13] Not a wiki farm, just a renderer [22:45:25] Interesting, never heard of it before [22:46:10] And since it was not a wiki farm, it wasn't competeting with Fandoom [22:46:48] Most results for it seem to be in a state of grave disrepair. [22:47:42] oh wait [22:47:51] I think I've seen these guys before [22:48:06] I was told if you put "anti" in a normal fandom link it removes ads and stuff [22:48:36] that would be it ye [22:48:37] Though I don't use fandom enough anymore to make much use of that lifehack [22:48:46] cool folks in my eyes though [22:48:49] my blockers make fandom tolerable enough that I've never used that [22:48:53] but yes, cool folks [22:48:59] I have ublock so yeah [22:49:04] it's mobile fandom that's hell [22:49:07] for me [22:49:08] and that pretty uch does the trick for most sites [22:49:14] fun fact, no reason to observe ads on mobile either [22:49:22] firefox + ublock is a viable mobile combination [22:49:30] Use Indie Wiki Buddy and redirect all Fandom links to either indie wikis or antifandom [22:49:37] Still can't believe Starwars, one of the biggest IPs ever, doesn't have its own official wiki [22:49:56] Startrek, Halo, Minecraft, and Terraria all have their own wikis [22:49:56] fandom did a good job capturing that market [22:50:05] But not ol Starwars [22:50:14] Halopedia is a miracle [22:50:38] A lot of video game wikis got shafted by gamepedia [22:50:51] Inluding Terraria and Fallout [22:51:00] Moving wiki is kinda hard, you will need to solve multiple wiki compability issues if you didn't use standard mediawiki [22:51:08] When gamepedia was bought by Fandom it was a sad day [22:51:16] if it doesn't go exceedingly well even a good forking effort is doomed [22:51:17] Cost is the biggest concern for most [22:51:23] Alon with publicity [22:51:33] cost, usurping in search, getting the editing community behind you, other stuff [22:51:39] Fandom does not respond kindly to advertising independent wikis [22:51:48] on their site [22:51:52] fandom takes steps on their end for sure [22:52:16] So you really need the blessing of the IP holders [22:52:38] So they can market the new wiki as the official one [22:52:47] and advertise it on their socials, etc [22:53:11] Otherwise it'll likely just remain another small independent offshoot [22:53:36] With smaller/less established fandoms it's also likelier to succeed. [22:53:52] Especially since Fandom puts up less of a fight for really small fandoms [22:54:01] hell, half of them aren't even moderated [22:58:08] I tend to agree