[00:03:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <hihello_what_are_you_doing_here> Afaik you yourself cannot block the IP of a user, you'd need a CVT member to do that and I believe they likely won't do anything unless the user has actually done something like vandalize the wiki
[00:03:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> What hi said
[00:03:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <chef_4092> I see, I see... is there a rollback feature, in case that _does_ happen, or should I back up my pages?
[00:03:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> Venue would be [[SR/CU]]
[00:03:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> <https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/SR/CU>
[00:04:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> If there is a history of vandalsim and a risk of recurrence
[00:04:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <chef_4092> There isn't, and I honestly doubt he _would_, I just like to be safe about these things. Call it paranoia, I suppose.
[00:05:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> Special:Nuke can help here, or you can engage the CVT team if it's too much to dispatch yourself
[00:05:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> #cvt for yhat
[00:05:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <chef_4092> Gotcha! If anything happens I'll go there. Thank you for the information! 😄 I appreciate you.
[00:06:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> All good, thanks for getting ahead of it and asking now before there's a problem needing solving
[00:10:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <hihello_what_are_you_doing_here, replying to notaracham> I think thats my first time being called Hi lol, most people deem Howdy to be the most name-like thing in my username and call me that bahaha
[00:11:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> I can see you and I gonna get along great. I am pretty lock-happy when it comes to pages that I feel may be easy vandalism
[00:15:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to hihello_what_are_you_doing_here> tbh I can't even decompose your name so I'd just call you hihellohowdy every time
[00:16:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> then again people latch onto the "WWR" part of my username so that's my name now ig
[00:19:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <hihello_what_are_you_doing_here, replying to thewwrnerdguy> That's fair bahaha, at least I use one of my short usernames in here
[00:20:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <hihello_what_are_you_doing_here> Can you imagine typing out hihellowhatareyoudoinghere every time you wanted to refer to me, I think that'd be awful :Laugh:
[00:21:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> see in my mind I can shorten that to hihello
[00:21:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> I find it weird that if I were trying to refer to your longer username it would be shorter than if I were trying to refer to your shorter usernam
[00:22:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> although knowing me I'd probably end up getting confused and typing hihellow
[00:23:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> I have no idea why I keep on misspelling hello as "hellow"
[00:23:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <hihello_what_are_you_doing_here> I do that to!! Idk how I keep doing it either
[00:38:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <oinite12> More of an editing question than anything, but what's a good way to present multi-line text as a single item in a list?
[00:39:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <hihello_what_are_you_doing_here> The handy dandy `<br>`
[00:40:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <hihello_what_are_you_doing_here> It forces a line break
[00:41:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> It's so nifty useful it's doesn't require a `/br`
[01:04:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <oinite12> oh yeah, that tag
[01:04:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <oinite12> thanks guys
[01:30:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dreamyskyhigh> /auth
[01:41:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to dreamyskyhigh> You can verify in #verify
[01:45:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <oinite12> Bucket question, how would you query data via JS?
[01:45:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dreamyskyhigh, replying to posix_memalign> Thank you. 🙏
[02:03:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology, replying to oinite12> https://meta.weirdgloop.org/w/Extension:Bucket/Api
[02:03:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <oinite12> ah, neat, thank you
[02:24:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dreamyskyhigh> [1/2] Quick question,
[02:24:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dreamyskyhigh> [2/2] would it be problematic if my wiki's name was 57 characters? If so, would a shortened version of 39 characters be okay?
[02:27:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology, replying to dreamyishere> [1/2] the wiki name is whatever
[02:27:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology, replying to dreamyishere> [2/2] if you're talking about the DB name or the subdomain then please think of something even shorter
[02:28:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dreamyishere> (The subdomain will be 5 characters.)
[02:28:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> awesome
[02:28:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> go crazy with the name
[02:35:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser> people who've used CSS (the extension) and TemplateStyles, how do they compare?
[02:36:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser> speaking of comparsions, is there one for Bucket vs Cargo?
[02:46:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to aliser> We have a [comparison of more options](https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Help:How_to_manage_structured_data), but not one specifically for Bucket vs Cargo.
[03:05:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser> [1/2] I'm having a brain fart rn but how do I turn this div into a link? I remember doing this but I forgor how, and putting images inside link element breaks it.
[03:05:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1488011172732211330/image.png?ex=69cb39e5&is=69c9e865&hm=1619198895a0d8a4d4489da3957bfa2440e7e8f0cd9f10e34a90e95ee615e7a6&
[03:05:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser> [1/2] the inside looks something like
[03:05:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1488011288604049459/image.png?ex=69cb3a01&is=69c9e881&hm=9be4c8c6619bf00cba84df0c00ea95b9a153c0d7bbcebdd63e52e07fa0743af2&
[03:07:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ccxtwf, replying to aliser> [1/2] `[https://... <div class="...">.../div]`
[03:07:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ccxtwf, replying to aliser> [2/2] encloses a div inside a `<a>` link.
[03:07:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser> how to access special pages? ik I can just go to the url but is there a link somewhere or ..?
[03:07:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ccxtwf, replying to aliser> Go to [[Special:SpecialPages\]]
[03:07:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser, replying to ccxtwf> I mean like a link on the front somewhere
[03:08:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser, replying to ccxtwf> can't put images inside tho
[03:08:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> There used to be a link in the toolbar but WMF removed it with 1.44 iirc
[03:08:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser> also the links are internal
[03:08:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser, replying to kockaadmiralac> bruh why
[03:08:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> just add it back via MediaWiki:Sidebar
[03:11:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow, replying to kockaadmiralac> Why did they do that
[03:12:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T333211
[03:13:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [1/2] Awesome image coming from WMF tbh
[03:13:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1488013146193920121/Screenshot_2023-11-04_150734.png?ex=69cb3bbc&is=69c9ea3c&hm=ca11445368a9751a03f895860e0f287c180bb9e8eac10e7c90f3b66b36cc89f8&
[03:13:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> ⭕ Special pages 🥳 <-------------------------- ❌ Special pages 😫
[03:13:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow, replying to kockaadmiralac> top ten images
[03:13:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow> wmf should start making more of those
[03:14:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <wickerbasket2540, replying to kockaadmiralac> Best image of  all farms.
[03:17:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ccxtwf, replying to aliser> [1/3] you can force them to be external links by doing this:
[03:17:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ccxtwf, replying to aliser> [2/3] `[{{FULLURL:Main_Page}} <div class="custom">span/div]`
[03:17:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ccxtwf, replying to aliser> [3/3] Embedding multiple images in one anchor link feels rough tho, so I don't have any good advice on that front
[03:17:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser, replying to ccxtwf> why? does it work with external links?
[03:18:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ccxtwf, replying to aliser> `{{FULLURL:Main_Page}}` renders the full URL of [[Main Page\]]
[03:18:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ccxtwf> e.g. `https://sd.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page`
[03:18:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser, replying to ccxtwf> okay wait
[03:18:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser> all the links in the blocks are internal to the wiki
[03:18:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser> no external links
[03:19:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ccxtwf, replying to aliser> yeah you force the internal link [[some page\]] to be an external link by making them `[{{FULLURL:some page}} whatever is in this link]` instead
[03:20:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser, replying to ccxtwf> but WHY 😭
[03:20:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser> what would this achieve
[03:21:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ccxtwf> Doing `[[some page|<div>.../div]]` doesn't render a div inside the internal link
[03:24:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser, replying to ccxtwf> oh
[03:24:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser> and I guess the external icon can be just hidden with css
[03:24:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser> this might just work thank you!
[03:25:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ccxtwf, replying to aliser> do `<span class="plainlinks">[url something]/span`
[03:27:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser, replying to ccxtwf> you are a savior dude
[04:20:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sylphoid> [1/2] 1. does fandom automatically convert Mediawiki:Wikia.css into Mediawiki:Fandomdesktop.css? 
[04:20:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sylphoid> [2/2] 2. I'm working on https://battlenations.miraheze.org/ which appears to be in a time capsule from a decade ago and explains why some of the styling doesn't work as Wikia/Oasis DNE. If I remove Wikia.css, am I mostly ok? Or should I be removing things one at a time to not break anything?
[04:24:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <wickerbasket2540, replying to sylphoid> [1/2] 1) If I can recall, yes, they do.
[04:24:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <wickerbasket2540, replying to sylphoid> [2/2] 2) Removing it would be fine, since I had to nuke ImportJS when my wiki left Fandom for Miraheze, so none of the imports wouldn't work. Removing the page didn't cause any harm, though.
[04:28:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sylphoid> i'm sorry, did you want to nuke ImportJS so imports didn't work? or they just stopped working
[04:29:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <wickerbasket2540> They stopped working entirely due to ImportJS being Fandom-exclusive after we moved, so I deleted it entirely.
[04:30:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ccxtwf, replying to sylphoid> MediaWiki:ImportJS does nothing on Miraheze. You can delete it or not to the same effect.
[04:33:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sylphoid> ok perfect, i had just realized we still have that as i didn't even consider that
[04:34:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sylphoid> i just came across https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Help:Moving_from_Fandom 🤦 i should have just googled harder
[04:44:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reyvarie, replying to posix_memalign> cool page, but now I'm wondering about loading lua data using lua tables vs using JSON. When would you use json over lua?
[04:44:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kuurubizu81, replying to reyvarie> i am also curious about this
[04:45:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Loading JSON increases the expensive parser function count by 1 that's all I know
[04:46:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> (Undocumentedly at that)
[04:46:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology, replying to kockaadmiralac> i award you the prize of making it documentedly
[04:46:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to reyvarie> JSON is a lot easier to deal with because, for example, I can dump an object as JSON in python and then save the result on-wiki. For Lua tables I need to find a library that does this or write a Lua table serializer myself.
[04:48:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reyvarie> so basically it's for when you can get the source data externally already?
[04:49:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Yeah I think that's the main use case
[04:49:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> If you're editing the data module manually there's no difference between Lua and JSON
[04:49:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reyvarie> hmm ok
[04:51:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reyvarie> no like, parsing advantages with particular kinds of structures/queries?
[04:51:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I tried a while ago to benchmark the speed difference between mw.loadData and mw.loadJsonData and it was miniscule even with slightly larger JSON pages
[04:52:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Maybe my setup was off, you could try yourself for your particular use case
[04:54:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> But like, whether you store the data module in Lua or JSON you can still express the same kind of structures
[04:54:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reyvarie> mm okay
[04:55:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> e.g. no metatables or functions
[04:58:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac, replying to pskyechology> <https://www.mediawiki.org/w/?diff=8315618> ok I actually did it now
[04:58:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> [1/2] yay :D
[04:58:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> [2/2] thank youuuuu
[05:01:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reyvarie> Am I right in my understanding that every entry in bucket is tied to a template/module that is run on an existing wikipage, and thus you can't like, add (or remove) entries directly into bucket via a javascript form or something?
[05:01:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Every entry is tied to a page yeah
[05:02:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Not necessarily template or module but rather the page that the template or module is invoked from
[05:02:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reyvarie> got it
[05:03:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> That's why there's no explicit mechanism to delete something from a bucket, you just stop storing it and it disappears
[05:19:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to kockaadmiralac> Try using `require` to load the Lua table stored in another module. I think there was a 2x difference when I tried.
[05:20:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Isn't require slightly different than loadData
[05:21:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> <https://dev.fandom.com/wiki/Module:Sandbox/KockaAdmiralac> This was my setup
[05:22:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> [1/2] Yeah. I never tried loadData so I don't know what would cause the difference.
[05:22:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> [2/2] There might be some optimizations when you do a `require` at the start of a module.
[05:24:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac, replying to kockaadmiralac> It's a 120k JSON page and both p.i18n and p.i18n2 report about 0.02s of CPU utilization when I try them
[05:27:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> Wait I did use `mw.loadData`. It's a 390k Lua table that gets loaded many times on a page IIRC.
[05:27:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> Lemme test again
[05:28:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I didn't try with multiple loads because I assumed loadData keeps the table cached
[05:28:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Which like I guess is the main difference between loadData and require
[05:36:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> Hmm. require is actually slower when I tested it. I've no idea how I got my old results then.
[05:47:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> I removed the performance claim from the help page.
[06:17:36] <crystalite13>	 anyone have suggestions on [[Requests_for_Comment/User_close_policy_amendments_(2)]]?
[06:17:47] <crystalite13>	 Honestly I don't think I have much too say but 
[06:39:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser> [1/2] whoose flag did I make!
[06:39:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <aliser> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1488065073342582874/2026-03-30_16-35-25.mp4?ex=69cb6c18&is=69ca1a98&hm=a21ff052add9ced2c06a1b08a7b2257f920d9dfd602aca003e11fa7122635528&
[06:58:53] <RhinosF1>	 Someone tell crystalite if they come back to delete it
[06:59:01] <RhinosF1>	 It's been moved to the UCP talk page by Talk
[06:59:04] <RhinosF1>	 Tali
[06:59:09] <RhinosF1>	 They were supposed to say
[07:04:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <eytirth> [[Requests_for_Comment/User_close_policy]]
[07:04:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> <https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Requests_for_Comment/User_close_policy>
[07:12:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [1/2] Nice
[07:12:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1488073476475584633/image.png?ex=69cb73eb&is=69ca226b&hm=392280538fdec834c65c91247b5c3aeae9008fbed968d3b6c668e0eb50af1bab&
[07:13:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> flashbang
[07:24:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> There isn't yet an open issue for adding temp account support is there
[07:25:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> i dont think so, no
[07:25:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> do you have a phorge account
[07:31:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <huannengqizhaban> Why my js hasn't worked since unknown time but I don't change anything
[07:58:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <akarimiracle_04> hey there! i was wondering how i can get autoconfirmed on greatcharacters wiki since even tho it says to make 10 edits and be active for 4 days, it won’t let me edit anything
[07:58:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <akarimiracle_04> /genq
[08:01:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology, replying to akarimiracle_04> [1/2] someone gave you autopatrolled which doesn't come with edit rights lol
[08:01:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology, replying to akarimiracle_04> [2/2] you can try asking them for the confirmed group
[08:01:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <akarimiracle_04> thanks! i messed them some time ago and ima wait for a response~
[08:02:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> beyond that you can still make edits on your userpage
[08:02:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> so you could for example do drafts there
[08:02:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <akarimiracle_04> thats true! for some reason it won’t let me do sandboxes
[08:04:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <akarimiracle_04> probably for the same reason i can’t make pages in general
[08:13:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac, replying to pskyechology> https://issue-tracker.miraheze.org/T15150 Now I do
[08:15:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> you are now deep in the user to techie pipeline
[08:17:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> there is no escape once you are in the trusted contributors group
[08:19:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> A fate worse than death
[08:20:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> waiter waiter, more wiki rename requests please
[08:37:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <andersondavis0259> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1488094705525850213/IMG_1224.png?ex=69cb87b1&is=69ca3631&hm=af200bf80a219e748d75263b0b15de06d8fa37cfa33db87f4cd464b3e25ca7c9&
[08:37:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> @pskyechology
[08:37:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> murder this person
[08:39:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> i'll help the first 10 spambots start earning bans within a week but they'll have to reimburse me 10% of their bans
[09:10:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <clay_golemunova_89720> can we set up multilingual site in Miraheze?
[09:11:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <lucas639j> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1488103375617658970/1771342694527.jpg?ex=69cb8fc4&is=69ca3e44&hm=8d08f4ec784bf125225f7adc9ee0c9eb1a14b9dce4e4f8dc6b967effbd131dd0&
[09:12:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ccxtwf> @Discord Moderators
[09:12:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <eytirth> F...
[09:13:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <eytirth, replying to clay_golemunova_89720> You can use the translate add-on or even interwiki links bween a set of wikis
[09:14:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <clay_golemunova_89720> i see.
[09:27:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <elisapoly, replying to kockaadmiralac> oh hey! Welcome to slave trusted group \o/
[09:29:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Wait lmao Skye actually added me there I didn't realize
[09:31:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nyxxed> my sidebars are floating off the side of the screen and i can't figure out why LMFAO
[09:31:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nyxxed> i love css its so fun ! s
[09:35:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nyxxed> im sooo confused it was working fine earlier
[10:06:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nyxxed> hey can ayone else tell me if this page just isn't rendering right <https://acosaa.miraheze.org/wiki/Desdemona_Xanthus>
[10:10:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84, replying to nyxxed> works for me
[10:10:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> [1/2] aside from this at the bottom
[10:10:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1488118294094549124/image.png?ex=69cb9da9&is=69ca4c29&hm=54d479429f82534b9219926fda8ec7309c6526b0618fc84f2c893850bbd73814&
[10:11:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [1/8] You have some unclosed braces```hbs
[10:11:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [2/8] {{CharGalleryMain
[10:11:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [3/8] |title=Gallery
[10:11:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [4/8] |images=
[10:11:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [5/8] {{CharGallerySub|sub=Desdemona Icon.PNG}}|{{Tooltip|alt=Nyxxed on this website/ToyHou.se/ArtFight}}}}
[10:11:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [6/8] {{CharGallerySub|sub=FILE_NAME.png}}|{{Tooltip|alt=Nyxxed on this website/ToyHou.se/ArtFight)}}}}
[10:11:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [7/8] }}
[10:11:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [8/8] ```
[10:13:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I'm not entirely sure what are you trying here tbh what is that pipe doing after the CharGallerySub template
[10:13:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nyxxed> Oh my god 😩 also thats because I havent filled it out
[10:13:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> That pipe is terminating your `images` argument
[10:14:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nyxxed> Wait what r you talking about
[10:14:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [1/11] So it gets interpreted as```hbs
[10:14:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [2/11] {{CharGalleryMain
[10:14:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [3/11] |title=Gallery
[10:14:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [4/11] |images={{CharGallerySub|sub=Desdemona Icon.PNG}}
[10:14:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [5/11] |1={{Tooltip|alt=Nyxxed on this website/ToyHou.se/ArtFight}}
[10:14:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [6/11] }}
[10:14:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [7/11] {{CharGallerySub|sub=FILE_NAME.png}}
[10:14:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [8/11] |
[10:14:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [9/11] {{Tooltip|alt=Nyxxed on this website/ToyHou.se/ArtFight)}}
[10:14:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [10/11] }}
[10:14:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [11/11] }}```
[10:15:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Your second CharGallerySub is outside CharGalleryMain
[10:15:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nyxxed> Oh shit you're right
[10:16:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nyxxed> Now how the fuck did i do that HAHAHAHA
[10:18:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nyxxed> I have no idea why thats happening bc its formatted the exact same on my template page
[10:19:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nyxxed> <https://acosaa.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:CharGalleryMain>
[10:22:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nyxxed> Yeah idk whats going on there
[10:22:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nyxxed> Oh well. This is a later problem.
[11:18:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to kockaadmiralac> There are no plans to enable temporary accounts at this time
[11:22:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> There are privacy and legal issues to agree on too
[11:23:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Aren't temp accounts like, more private
[11:26:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to kockaadmiralac> Yes
[11:27:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> But that's also fun because if we tell users their information is private
[11:27:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Who can we share it with
[11:27:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> And what info at what detail
[11:27:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I mean if you treat temp users as regular users
[11:27:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> When it comes to privacy
[11:27:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Because there's that UserInfo extension to allow you to share just general information but not full IPs
[11:28:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to kockaadmiralac> But do we, is that going to be too much work for CVT
[11:28:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Lots of questions
[11:28:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Does CVT not have CheckUser already
[11:28:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> That need answering by T&S and maybe referred to the board for a PP amendment to make it clear
[11:28:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to kockaadmiralac> Not all of CVT
[11:28:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Only Stewards get CU
[11:29:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I see
[11:29:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Only Stewards and T&S can see CU data
[11:29:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Technically Tech could but we don't
[12:16:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ivyanimations> [1/5] hi! does anyone know how i can change the font of h1, h2, and h3? it doesnt work when i try, heres my css
[12:16:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ivyanimations> [2/5] ```@import url('https://fonts.cdnfonts.com/s/14798/VCR_OSD_MONO_1.001[1].woff');
[12:16:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ivyanimations> [3/5] #firstHeading, .mw-page-title-main, h1, h2, h3 {
[12:16:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ivyanimations> [4/5]     font-family: 'VCR OSD Mono', monospace;
[12:16:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ivyanimations> [5/5] }```
[12:17:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ivyanimations> (it works for the title of the pages btw just not the headings)
[12:17:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <albany_prim0, replying to ivyanimations> vcr osd is peak font
[12:17:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ivyanimations> ikr
[12:18:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ivyanimations, replying to ivyanimations> which is rly weird i dont get what im doing wrong
[12:20:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reyvarie> [1/2] your rules for your regular headings are not specific enough, so they are being overridden by the default font. Try
[12:20:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reyvarie> [2/2] `.mw-body h1, .mw-body h2, .mw-body h3`
[12:20:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reyvarie> also having both `#firstHeading` and `.mw-page-title-main` is probably redundant
[12:21:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ivyanimations> which one should i use?
[12:22:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ivyanimations, replying to reyvarie> still doesnt work 🥀
[12:22:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ivyanimations> [1/2] headings stay this font
[12:22:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ivyanimations> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1488151477167067177/image.png?ex=69cbbc90&is=69ca6b10&hm=c4c5626bf8814c5b3e4c4c2d57a801642e8d71f0188e69707a22ff56a7150233&
[12:24:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reyvarie> if you're applying these to Common.css you may have to wait for like 15 mins for it to update. You can bypass this by adding `?debug=2` at the end of the URL (although this sometimes doesn't work in my experience, usually when you're updating an additional time)
[12:24:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reyvarie, replying to ivyanimations> hmm
[12:25:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reyvarie> actually you might not need to use either because .mw-body h1 should take care of it too
[12:25:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reyvarie, replying to reyvarie> Another way of testing changes is applying them to the page User:Yourusername/common.css
[12:26:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reyvarie> these changes show up immediately but are only visible to you
[12:29:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ivyanimations, replying to reyvarie> it updated instantly for the title
[12:31:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ivyanimations> nvm u were right it just takes a sec
[13:26:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [1/2] The Parsoid guy is roasting SMW on Gerrit
[13:26:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1488167630790459555/image.png?ex=69cbcb9b&is=69ca7a1b&hm=19ab878fd41a30efd97695495865283952ea40a6d9bdd2330f5a766f4fc3198f&
[13:33:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> Yeah...6 years ago
[13:34:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I don't know if this is more telling of Parsoid or SMW
[13:39:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dubuhasbeensnatched> um
[13:39:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dubuhasbeensnatched> can i ask smth here
[13:41:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dubuhasbeensnatched> [1/2] how to make the code editor is the default one instead of this one?
[13:41:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dubuhasbeensnatched> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1488171272629129488/Screenshot_2026-03-30-20-41-07-202_com.android.chrome.jpg?ex=69cbcf00&is=69ca7d80&hm=a6b7a50c07289101c31ac57bd7327fac0623f83e78a96ac7f2440ef618cfcc52&
[13:44:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dubuhasbeensnatched> cz usually ``?action=edit`` already give me the code source editor on other wiki (like wiki.gg and fandom)
[13:45:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dubuhasbeensnatched> but this one fallback into the same editor again and again...
[13:58:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to dubuhasbeensnatched> You can disable visualeditor iirc
[13:59:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd> Idk where but i think you can disable it for yourself or sitewide
[14:06:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gerbiil> [1/3] Hey, I recently made a wiki request and it's been put on hold for review by a second reviewer or a steward.
[14:06:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gerbiil> [2/3] I'm happy to wait and have no intention of being pushy (you're all volunteers after all and I'm super grateful for your work), but I just wondered if anyone has a rough timeframe for this kind of thing since I can't find much information on it?
[14:06:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gerbiil> [3/3] Thank you :)
[14:06:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dubuhasbeensnatched> tried to turn off the visual editor both on preferences and sitewide but it still load this editor...
[14:11:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jph2, replying to gerbiil> It depends on others' availability to review the request. Rest assured, it being "on hold" is better than it still being "in review". We appreciate your patience.
[14:11:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <_arawynn, replying to gerbiil> [1/2] Usually 3 to 5 days, though it might be longer if the topic of your wiki requires the opinion of a steward.
[14:11:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <_arawynn, replying to gerbiil> [2/2] Regardless, answering whatever question/topic the AI gave you would be helpful when somebody reviews your request
[14:12:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gerbiil> Ok, thank you both!
[14:27:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nyxxed, replying to reyvarie> I find it more effective to purge the common.css page ngl but thats just me
[14:28:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reyvarie> hmm
[14:28:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reyvarie> will try that the next time
[14:28:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <progeest, replying to nyxxed> I can confirm that this does help sometimes
[14:29:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nyxxed> Debug=2 has NEVER worked for me so
[14:29:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <progeest> I often purge common css, and then also the page that has to apply the css
[14:29:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> `?debug=2` works for me everywhere except for Miraheze lmao there's something with their setup that might be breaking it
[14:30:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nyxxed, replying to progeest> Purge and then hard refresh the page usually gets it working for me but common.css does just take a few minutes to apply sometimes
[14:42:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> I've never had any issues with `?debug=2` tbh
[14:47:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to kockaadmiralac> from what I know, definitely smw
[15:01:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nyxxed, replying to thewwrnerdguy> idk maybe its just a firefox thing but ive genuinely NEVER had it work
[15:02:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to nyxxed> I use firefox too, always worked for me
[15:02:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nyxxed> 🤷
[15:02:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nyxxed> no idea why it doesnt work for me
[15:15:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reyvarie> am on firefox too
[15:15:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reyvarie> debug=2 will work for the first update but not updates after that (until the cache catches up)
[15:25:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84, replying to reyvarie> ctrl shift R
[15:32:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <reyvarie> that one has never worked for me
[15:39:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nyxxed> same lmao
[15:39:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <nyxxed> my best bet is literally just purging pages
[16:01:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> [1/2] I just do `debug=2` every now and then since I guess it doesn't work 100% of the time if editing in quick succession.
[16:01:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> [2/2] -# I mean I guess that makes sense at least...
[16:02:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <albany_prim0> hello everyone
[16:02:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <albany_prim0> how does one do the
[16:02:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <albany_prim0> "This article is about XYZ, for the other thing, see XYZ (other thing)"?
[16:03:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> I like to think it's using a disambiguation template
[16:03:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> Just like Stub templates
[16:06:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <progeest, replying to daforest> Debug=2 actually sends me back to an older version of the wiki instead lol
[16:07:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <progeest, replying to progeest> It changes the background to the old one and the footer buttons as well
[16:07:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <albany_prim0, replying to daforest> And how about the "Bla bla bla this page is stub or incomplete..."
[16:07:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> You can find a stub page template to import
[16:07:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <progeest, replying to progeest> Oh nevermind not anymore I guess
[16:08:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> [1/2] <https://dev.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:Stub>
[16:08:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> [2/2] I don't know how to work the bot but here's a direct link to the dev wiki
[16:11:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to reyvarie> ah wait actually I once had an issue where a CSS page I imported wasn't updating with `?debug=2`. I fixed it by moving it to a gadget and eliminating all non-font imports
[16:42:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <progeest> [1/2] Oh my god I’m just accessing my wiki on chrome to test stuff… is the images not loading issue genuinely this bad??
[16:42:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <progeest> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1488216898473558026/IMG_4984.png?ex=69cbf97e&is=69caa7fe&hm=b0e9baf9356a563c6ad84766cc436b2d3c009a78b003b5333f2058b62890a194&
[16:43:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <progeest> Oh well it only happens when I add ?useskin=minerva to the link I guess
[16:43:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <honoka55> i met the same since just now
[16:44:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <albany_prim0> [1/2] Oh, what the hell, man?!
[16:44:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <albany_prim0> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1488217332651266230/image.png?ex=69cbf9e5&is=69caa865&hm=1b3920e22c848e94a0e2036d314b2048887e4bb9eab73251f62d943a156c7d64&
[16:44:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <honoka55> [1/2] ig csp is wrongly configurated
[16:44:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <honoka55> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1488217329757061280/image.png?ex=69cbf9e5&is=69caa865&hm=bfa6d6c1a719d7485604ff88a0b416f5daf4718f3214455a276e3a4da3d1f2ef&
[16:44:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> #minor-announcements
[16:45:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gilten> Yeah... All the pictures on our wiki are fucked at the moment.
[16:45:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <lightning789> same here
[16:46:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> we are aware
[16:46:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <garcideluna> Why has my logo suddenly disappeared again?
[16:46:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> we know
[16:46:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <garcideluna> oh
[16:46:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <garcideluna> 😇
[16:46:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> it should be restored
[16:52:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <honoka55, replying to rhinosf1> does this mean per-wiki csp review and whitelist will be available in the future?
[16:52:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to honoka55> it is available immediately
[16:53:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <honoka55> wikis can apply for csp within a wiki? would it then be less strict or the same as now?
[16:53:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to honoka55> still the same rules
[16:53:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <honoka55> still the same time consumption then
[16:54:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> @garcideluna @lightning789 @gilten @honoka55 are you still having issues?
[16:54:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <garcideluna> not that I am aware of
[16:54:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <honoka55> no it recovered
[16:54:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> good
[16:56:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gilten, replying to rhinosf1> Nope! Thanks for checking!
[16:57:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kotyk_ua> [1/2] Hello! My wiki request #78095 has been pending for a while, even though many newer requests have already been processed. Could someone please take a look at it or let me know if I need to provide more details? Thank you!
[16:57:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kotyk_ua> [2/2] Link: meta.miraheze.org
[16:57:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> cool
[16:57:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> I didn't blow too much up then
[16:58:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kotyk_ua, replying to rhinosf1> ?
[16:58:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to kotyk_ua> the messages above yours
[17:00:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <lightning789> Yeah I'm all good now
[17:00:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kotyk_ua, replying to kotyk_ua> https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:RequestWikiQueue/78095
[17:01:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> It's 7 hours old and has already had an automated response. Please be patient.
[17:01:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> @kotyk_ua
[17:01:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> A human will review it in due course
[17:01:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <_arawynn> the approved requests were most likely by the AI
[17:02:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kotyk_ua, replying to rhinosf1> So why did the newer ones react?
[17:02:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to kotyk_ua> The AI will review every request a single time.
[17:02:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Yours has been deffered to a human
[17:02:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kotyk_ua, replying to _arawynn> You don't allow AI yourselves, and you added it yourselves 💀
[17:03:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to kotyk_ua> what do you mean we don't allow it?
[17:03:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <_arawynn> Miraheze is not Wikipedia
[17:03:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kotyk_ua, replying to _arawynn> free mediawiki hosting
[17:04:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> Isn't MediaWiki just a software? It's used in thousands of websites
[17:05:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> Wikipedia has it's own policies as does Miraheze, just because they both use MediaWiki is irrelevant.
[17:05:24] <RhinosF1>	 yes
[17:06:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kotyk_ua, replying to daforest> Did I say anything about Wikipedia here?
[17:07:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> You said that Miraheze doesn't allow AI, despite it being used for wiki requests. And Wikipedia has recent updated their policies regarding AI, hence why they mentioned it
[17:11:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sailing> [1/4] it's possible they meant the part of the wiki request form that says:
[17:11:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sailing> [2/4] > Please do not use ChatGPT or any other AI model: They are rarely clear or relevant enough, and increases the chance you will be asked to rephrase or explain in specific.
[17:11:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sailing> [3/4] > 
[17:11:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sailing> [4/4] > Now, please tell us the topic & scope of your wiki in at least two sentences...
[17:12:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> Ah I see the confusion.
[17:13:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> I mean, the point of the Wiki AI is so not every wiki has to be reviewed by a person individually. Only when the scope and topic is complex enough to merit human intervention.
[17:14:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> -# Besides human to human is better than machine to machine, lol.
[17:15:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <_arawynn> quite likely, but sadly, there aren't enough human Wiki Reviewers to keep the queue at a reasonable length which is why the AI was implemented
[17:17:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> I suspected my wiki review might needed human intervention, so I wasn't too worried about waiting
[17:23:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kotyk_ua, replying to sailing> Yes, I was referring to the part where you create a wiki (request)
[17:25:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> [1/2] Because when folks use GPT to write their wiki requests, it's pretty consistently terrible and doesn't tell us what their project is actually about, and our AI reviewer can't accurately assess their project either.
[17:25:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> [2/2] Hearing from the person in their own words is the quickest way for us to understand what the project will be about and whether there are any potential concerns related to our content policies.
[17:26:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> [1/2] I would love if we could do away with the AI reviewer tomorrow, but there are currently 40 something requests in queue going back to the 23rd.
[17:26:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> [2/2] If we didn't have it, we'd be in the hundreds of pending requests and nearly a month backlog
[17:27:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kotyk_ua> Got it. Thanks for the great service 🫡!
[17:28:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <honoka55, replying to rhinosf1> it happened again
[17:29:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <honoka55> doesn't last long. fixed itself again now
[17:30:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kotyk_ua> The AI wrote:
[17:31:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kotyk_ua> The description provided focuses more on the server setup and its popularity rather than the specific content and purpose of the wiki itself. Please provide more details about the type of content that will be included on the wiki, such as specific topics or sections related to the Minecraft server, to ensure it aligns with Miraheze's Content Policy.
[17:32:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kotyk_ua> By the way, my website was acting up for some reason
[17:32:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to honoka55> Weird but it will just be cache
[17:32:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kotyk_ua> My CSS took a really long time to load
[17:33:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <_arawynn, replying to kotyk_ua> Please answer that, that way whoever will review your request might not need to ask for more details once it's your turn
[17:33:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> -# Shucks there's not that many reviewers, 15, eh? Pretty dedicated stuff.
[17:33:27] <Crystalite13>	 and some of them have extra hats
[17:33:35] <Crystalite13>	 like pix is a Reviewer but only really for reserve
[17:33:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <_arawynn, replying to daforest> I think there's more like 3 who regularly do reviews
[17:34:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <honoka55, replying to rhinosf1> it's really weird. it did recover and i'd been using the wiki it suddenly happened the same thing as half an hour ago and then fixes itself soon
[17:34:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to honoka55> Computers are weird
[17:34:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> "Hello. IT? Have you tried turning it off and on again?"
[17:35:38] <Crystalite13>	 i wonder why there's so many Steward wiki reviewers
[17:35:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <_arawynn> and yes, many have more volunteer positions in tech and as stewards which often times need to get higher priority
[17:35:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> We are WRs by default
[17:36:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> Speaking of which, probably time to prune for inactivity soon.
[17:36:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to daforest> It works quite often tbh
[17:36:31] <Crystalite13>	 I suppose, but if you have WR perms, why do you have the hat?
[17:36:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Tradition and so they appear in the list of those with the group automatically
[17:37:15] <Crystalite13>	 I see
[17:37:58] <Crystalite13>	 I actually have not seen a lot of these wiki reviewers
[17:38:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest, replying to rhinosf1> I would know, I'm an aspiring IT student.
[17:38:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> 8 of the 15 have pretty substantial other duties that means they rarely do reviews.
[17:38:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <x0nx> heya, are there still provisions for bulk importing pages from fandom?
[17:38:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to daforest> I'm paid for the fun of sometimes going easier to just blow the PC's OS up and rebuild it
[17:38:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> I did that today
[17:38:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to x0nx> Ye
[17:38:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <x0nx> another wiki (not mine, im already on mh) is about to get shut down and i wanna see if there's a quick way to get it ported here
[17:39:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to x0nx> Open a support thread and ping Digital
[17:39:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham> If fandom provides them with an XML dump (they usually will) they can either import it themselves here once their wiki is approved or open a request for import if the XML is fairly large
[17:39:56] <Crystalite13>	 tho subwayfares has been active in 2 months and doesn't have other roles
[17:40:02] <Crystalite13>	 but again it's prob contribs I don't see
[17:40:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <x0nx, replying to notaracham> copy will pass it on
[17:42:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <notaracham, replying to Crystalite13> Yep, it's also work that has a pretty high burnout rate, so a certain number of inactives is generally pretty par for course
[17:43:01] <Crystalite13>	 huh
[17:43:22] <Crystalite13>	 for some reason I don't think i'll ever get burnt out, though
[17:43:43] <Crystalite13>	 miraheze has been w/me for what (feels) like so long going without it would be like not using the internet!
[17:46:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> I don't have much of a relationship with Miraheze, I've only been here for 4 months. But I can say that my other wiki buraucrat loves it.
[17:46:45] <Crystalite13>	 I think the most rewarding part was introducing grace wiki to miraheze
[17:46:50] <Crystalite13>	 though I didn't join at the very beginning
[17:47:03] <Crystalite13>	 somehow they know me as the "miraheze guy"
[17:47:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> He'd always wanted a wiki of his fandom, soo... I'm glad that Miraheze was a viable choice.
[17:48:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <_arawynn> I've been at Mira for almost two years and like it very much though the first year was me mostly lurking and not doing much besides keeping my Wiki from getting closed XD
[17:48:33] <Crystalite13>	 and know you're up there!
[17:49:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> -# I always wondered how Wikipedia prevents wiki inactivity since I've always seen it get "updated" every few "hours" /j
[17:49:58] <Crystalite13>	 hmmmm yeah how does Wikipedia stay notable I wonder
[17:50:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> I mean... When you want quick information to cite off from you'd get a lot of traffic for it.
[17:55:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Wikipedia has more users across less wikis
[17:56:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> They also do have inactive wikis
[17:56:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> And do close things
[17:56:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tf2cutcontent.miraheze.org> Lol my diff bot is working so hard that my recent changes randomly hits a server timeout
[18:08:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ahappyoreo> [1/3] So, images seem borked on my wiki, but are fine on wikitide(?)
[18:08:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ahappyoreo> [2/3] - <https://wiki.avakot.org/Droptable>
[18:08:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ahappyoreo> [3/3] - <https://static.wikitide.net/soulframewiki/thumb/4/46/TopperLoot.png/300px-TopperLoot.png>
[18:13:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ahappyoreo> [1/2] Uhh...
[18:13:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ahappyoreo> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1488239815823589566/image.png?ex=69cc0ed6&is=69cabd56&hm=cfb942b9c58740f96c0f9873d63a26d33aa0c1af55b2b28ac0734979e138e001&
[18:16:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kai84, replying to ahappyoreo> might be to do with #minor-announcements  ?
[19:07:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ascendedone> [1/3] Why isn't a space between lines spawning in here?
[19:07:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ascendedone> [2/3] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1488253406383571197/image.png?ex=69cc1b7e&is=69cac9fe&hm=5f51de00d90b57b15dae54c3a7e7e2fad95f959940113e97ebe7352edcbd91e6&
[19:07:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ascendedone> [3/3] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1488253407025430728/image.png?ex=69cc1b7e&is=69cac9fe&hm=dc448faf23f78798bb239374b594d7c841e766971732fbd5865f217f556f6301&
[19:09:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <_arawynn> it doesn't translate to the text from soure editor. With <br> you force the text to go to a new line
[19:09:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ascendedone> Thanks
[19:11:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to Crystalite13> @crystalite13 kinda similar, although my current level of activity is definitely not something I can keep going indefinitely, and at some point in the future I'll probably have to cut some things out
[19:15:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ascendedone, replying to _arawynn> It doesn't seem like its matching my other instances of line spacing.
[19:15:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ascendedone> Like the spacing is a bit larger than I'm expecting.
[19:20:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tennisplayer4157> [1/4] It seems that I spontaneously get Lua errors with bucket like here:
[19:20:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tennisplayer4157> [2/4] https://battlecatsja.miraheze.org/wiki/%E3%81%A1%E3%81%B3%E3%83%8D%E3%82%B3
[19:20:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tennisplayer4157> [3/4] If you purge the page, you should see that the error resolves on its own, but as you can see at Pages with script errors, there are many other pages like that which were not showing up a few moments ago
[19:20:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tennisplayer4157> [4/4] https://battlecatsja.miraheze.org/wiki/%E3%82%AB%E3%83%86%E3%82%B4%E3%83%AA:%E3%82%B9%E3%82%AF%E3%83%AA%E3%83%97%E3%83%88%E3%82%A8%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E3%81%8C%E3%81%82%E3%82%8B%E3%83%9A%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8
[19:22:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tennisplayer4157> The errors are mostly `attempt to call field 'bucket' (a nil value)`
[19:26:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tennisplayer4157> [1/2] The syntax should just be like this, right?
[19:26:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tennisplayer4157> [2/2] ```mw.ext.bucket('cats').put({...})```
[19:29:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Just `bucket('cats').put({...})` should work too I think
[19:30:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tennisplayer4157> That's what I first used, but I changed it to `mw.ext.bucket` after noticing this problem
[19:30:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tennisplayer4157> Seems like it's irrelevant though
[19:31:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> What were the errors when you used just `bucket`
[19:31:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tennisplayer4157> I think they were identical
[19:33:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to ahappyoreo> Purged your wiki from the edge cache. Should be fixed.
[19:34:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tennisplayer4157, replying to kockaadmiralac> It doesn't seem to happen when I manually purge a page though
[19:34:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tennisplayer4157> Possibly it's happening when I null edit pages with pywikibot
[19:34:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mat2pl> [1/2] ye checks out, who messed with Content Security Policy and removed all of the cool pages from there?
[19:34:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mat2pl> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1488260267103097042/image.png?ex=69cc21e2&is=69cad062&hm=bd5bd7826fb8218d5c716fd5bc599f188943b8ecec8c95eed44524eef7a01b4a&
[19:35:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mat2pl> [1/2] i get it that my images are bad, but i cant even invoke/load things from mediawiki 🙈
[19:35:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mat2pl> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1488260451304472576/image.png?ex=69cc220e&is=69cad08e&hm=46e4b39dfadff6bfdcd9cdf4c0e03687c402d202fe1fa6554738e69843c5f51d&
[19:36:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Yeah everyone's having those
[19:36:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Ask Rhinos in #tech to clear the cache for your wiki
[19:36:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Or purge the pages that are broken
[19:37:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to mat2pl> Me
[19:37:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Hi
[19:37:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mat2pl> Hi 👋
[19:37:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mat2pl> :EpicFaceMH:
[19:38:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> I need to know which wiki
[19:38:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mudscape, replying to tennisplayer4157> is bucket maybe not properly loaded into the jobrunner?
[19:38:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mat2pl, replying to rhinosf1> https://shminer.miraheze.org/wiki/
[19:38:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to mat2pl> Done
[19:39:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mat2pl, replying to rhinosf1> cheers! ❤️
[19:39:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to mat2pl> No problem
[19:41:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mudscape, replying to tennisplayer4157> sorry I purged your example page
[20:26:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tennisplayer4157, replying to mudscape> that's fine, any page in the script error category that's in the main namespace and doesn't have a numerical id as a name is probably showing the same error
[20:30:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to tennisplayer4157> I think I've seen similar issues on other wikis. It's possibly a caching issue where whenever wikis enable an extension, the ManageWiki cache only gets purged on servers but not on job runners, so if you start using Bucket immediately after enabling it, anything involving the job queue will not work.
[20:33:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> [1/3] I'm observing symptoms of both of these tasks
[20:33:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> [2/3] https://issue-tracker.miraheze.org/T15144
[20:33:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> [3/3] https://issue-tracker.miraheze.org/T15145
[20:34:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <jph2, replying to gerbiil> Not sure which wiki request is yours; one that was on hold was approved and I've left some follow-up questions on the other. So you're either all set or please check the comments tab of the request to answer the questions in another comment. Thanks for your patience.
[20:35:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to posix_memalign> So on the wikitext side the symptom is `bucket` not found in Lua modules. On the backend mwtask* servers get `Invariant failed: Badtitle (特別:Badtitle/NS9592:Forms) in unknown namespace (9592)`
[20:36:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <linstarguy> How quickly are imports like this usually handled: https://issue-tracker.miraheze.org/T15143?
[20:38:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <gerbiil, replying to jph2> It's approved, thank you so much :)
[20:38:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1, replying to linstarguy> Whenever an engineer has time
[21:50:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <crystalite13> Yay for Geoffrey
[21:54:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to tennisplayer4157> yeah that's happened a few times on the main bc wiki too, but only for like the first few hours after enabling
[22:00:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to linstarguy> oh yeah I should probably stop messing around with bucket for a few minutes and actually do tech stuff
[22:00:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> although not right now
[22:02:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <dreamyishere> Hello! How are we doing today?
[22:24:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> What do I do when I get a MW error with unknown cause again <https://marginofthestrange.miraheze.org/wiki/File:ARG-Keys.mp3>
[22:24:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Does this need a Phorge ticket
[22:24:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to kockaadmiralac> Phorge or otherwise letting tech know
[22:24:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> Gimmi a bit I can pull up the error
[22:25:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> My bets are on TMH 🤞
[22:26:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Works fine when embedded btw it's just the file page that's wonky
[22:26:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <linstarguy> My friend is saying she's been IP-blocked from making a new Miraheze account. Is there a more specific group to reach out to than support?
[22:27:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to linstarguy> CVT
[22:28:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> [[Special:Contact/requestaccount]] also
[22:28:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> <https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:Contact/requestaccount>
[22:31:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <linstarguy> Thank you!
[22:39:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to linstarguy> Course
[22:39:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to kockaadmiralac> Mmm, @thewwrnerdguy nerd do we have a task for cosmos blowing something up
[22:39:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Lmao
[22:39:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> I am not familiar enough with graylog to tell if this is a known error lmfao
[22:40:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> (I have not been able to use my beta tech powers much alas so I haven’t pulled a trace from prod before)
[22:40:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> I can look if needed
[22:41:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to originalauthority> Would appreciate it. `stripos(): Argument #1 ($haystack) must be of type string, array given` is the thing that’s actually yelling
[22:41:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> In CosmosTemplate
[22:42:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> I’d send a link to the trace on GL for quick link but I’m accessing through 127.0.0.1 so
[22:42:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev> I think the trace is fine to make public but uuuuuuh
[22:43:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Something is is probably setting `class` to an array in content_actions?
[22:47:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Oh wait is it because of ca-timedtext
[22:48:21] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> oh I can't even get graylog to load
[22:48:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> i'm so sick of this proxy bullshit
[22:50:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Yep ['
[22:53:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to kockaadmiralac> [1/7] Here are the first few functions in the backtrace if it's helpful:
[22:53:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to kockaadmiralac> [2/7] ```
[22:53:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to kockaadmiralac> [3/7] from /srv/mediawiki/1.45/skins/Cosmos/includes/CosmosTemplate.php(1350)
[22:53:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to kockaadmiralac> [4/7] #0 /srv/mediawiki/1.45/skins/Cosmos/includes/CosmosTemplate.php(1350): stripos(array, string)
[22:53:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to kockaadmiralac> [5/7] #1 /srv/mediawiki/1.45/skins/Cosmos/includes/CosmosTemplate.php(955): MediaWiki\Skins\Cosmos\CosmosTemplate->buildActionButtons()
[22:53:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to kockaadmiralac> [6/7] #2 /srv/mediawiki/1.45/skins/Cosmos/includes/CosmosTemplate.php(859): MediaWiki\Skins\Cosmos\CosmosTemplate->buildArticleHeader()
[22:53:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to kockaadmiralac> [7/7] ```
[22:55:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Trying to find another wiki that has both Cosmos and TimedMediaHandler to see if they can reproduce
[22:55:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow, replying to pixldev> when is cosmic remaking cosmos
[22:57:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> ThemeDesigner when
[22:57:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> _but I already wrote that and lost it once)
[22:58:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> Full backtrace on [Phorge](https://issue-tracker.miraheze.org/T15155).
[22:59:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> <https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-TimedMediaHandler/commit/2ba612d268a5ed457d827c3501a6808bee2f248a> I think this is pretty much when it broke but this was back in 1.44
[23:00:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority> the problem is annoyingly that Cosmos is in gerrit control so alas a patch shall have to go through that turmoil
[23:00:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Wild
[23:00:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I wonder if this is a TimedMediaHandler bug or a Cosmos bug
[23:01:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Because from what I can tell the class is meant to be a string but TimedMediaHandler just ignores that
[23:02:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to originalauthority> [1/2] I think CA as the maintainer is less available recently but we do have a few other contributors who can +2 the fix. 
[23:02:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to originalauthority> [2/2] Unless you're referring to the patch submission process on gerrit which I concur is not the most intuitive.
[23:07:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> So apparently they added Html::addClass but not Html::hasClass
[23:07:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Sigh
[23:07:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I can probably write something up tomorrow
[23:08:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <originalauthority, replying to kockaadmiralac> do you have any faith anyone at the WMF has any idea what they're doing?
[23:09:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I want to believe 😔
[23:13:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow, replying to originalauthority> It kind of exists... but the script is very unstable
[23:20:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I also had another issue open for Cosmos so I could probably PR both of them
[23:20:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow, replying to kockaadmiralac> cosmos itself needs a big recoding
[23:21:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Though uh I don't have a local sandbox for it lmao
[23:21:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow> especially by removing the `body *` selector it used
[23:21:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> God
[23:21:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Fuck that srlector
[23:21:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow, replying to kockaadmiralac> i had found it
[23:21:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow> let me get link real quick
[23:21:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> No I know where it is
[23:21:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow> https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-skins-Cosmos/blob/3625f8e7a52b5b81b89563b054c191c2236dbc44/resources/skins.cosmos.styles/common.less#L1829-L1831
[23:22:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow> ah
[23:22:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I found it a couple days ago
[23:22:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow> PLEASE remove it
[23:22:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow> i have no idea on how to do that for now
[23:22:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I mean you can override just by adding * at the end of your selector
[23:22:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Like
[23:22:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow> it kind of like
[23:23:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow> messes with source editor
[23:23:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> <https://marginofthestrange.miraheze.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Cosmos.css#L-40>
[23:23:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> We have some of these fixes here
[23:24:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow> admins shouldn't be forced to do that themselves to be honest
[23:24:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Yeah
[23:24:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow> this also counts to H2s
[23:26:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow> I'm going to force myself to learn the coding style Cosmos uses