[20:11:04] Hello. I need some advice on how to input a lifetime ban for a sportsperson (following a conviction for match fixing) [20:14:32] I have "convicted of: Match fixing, Penalty: Prohibition, Point of time: 6 June 2023, Authority: World Professional Billiards and Snooker Association, Duration: [here i want to add 'Lifetime'] but I cannot add anything but a number of years/months/weeks/ [20:16:06] Any advice or suggestions very welcome [20:25:37] Ok I think I have fixed it. Duration: 1 / unit: lifetime [20:27:19] :) [20:29:37] even better: punishment: life ban [20:29:51] no duration needed [20:31:09] Looks like that's only used twice so far, for two football referees' [[Property:P39]]. [20:31:10] 10[1] 10https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P39 [20:31:35] But also in the context of match fixing, so I guess it counts as precedent. [20:32:02] i have a few more to add - so i'd like to get it right [20:32:33] The item being discussed is [[Q557076]] for anyone else wanting to take a look at that. [20:32:34] 10[2] 10https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q557076 [20:39:30] While I am doing this I can't find a way to indicate a non-lifetime ban (i.e for a fixed period) (subclasses of Punishment [[Q186361]]): https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q557076 [20:39:31] 10[3] 10https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q186361 [20:40:35] I was just checking Stephen Lee, but his ban was never entered. [20:40:43] [[Q713683]] [20:40:44] 10[4] 10https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q713683 [20:41:19] ban [[Q621608]] - subclass of prohibition [20:41:19] 10[5] 10https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q621608 [20:42:24] Yeah, I don't think that's the right one. [20:50:24] I can't find any other examples of bans being recorded in WD. Not even the most widely known ones, like Tim Donaghy (match fixing) or Lance Armstrong (doping). [20:57:03] I noticed neither Lance Armstong nor Floyd Landis have their bans noted in Wikidata [21:21:17] Taking another look at the reference site for the Chinese snooker players ( https://wpbsa.com/wpbsa-statement-6-june-2023/ )  I think 'suspension' is a more accurate / legal term for the punishment. Not 'ban'. [21:29:22] 'Suspension' is what they used for the investigative time period. The reference explicitly calls it a 'ban' now. [21:29:47] For Liang Wenbo and Li Hang, that is. The others got suspensions, yeah. [21:30:13] I think Stephen Lee's 12-year sentence was also called a 'ban' at the time, but I can't find a first-hand reference. [21:34:42] There's [[Q1188533]] but that's related to employment. [21:34:43] 10[1] 10https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1188533 [21:35:52] The linked enwiki page includes a section on sports though. [21:41:30] So Life ban and suspension for a fixe time. seems to make sense. [21:41:49] Lee's was a 12-year ban, so not quite. :-) [21:42:57] ok - let me see what https://wpbsa.com/ says about Lee [21:44:23] Answer: nothing :)) [21:44:27] Found the original announcement: https://web.archive.org/web/20130928195436/http://www.worldsnooker.com/page/NewsArticles/0,,13165~3470459,00.html [21:44:46] That talks about a suspension, but the linked PDF talks about time-limited bans, too. [21:45:14] See points 12 and 13 on page 4 in particular. [21:45:20] How do these semantic conflicts get resolved? [21:47:47] I feel like 'suspension' and 'ban' can be considered synonyms after the definitive ruling. But the 'suspension' before that, while the investigation is ongoing, seems like a slightly different concept. [21:49:37] So I'd argue in favour of a single 'ban' item for the former with a 'suspension' alias, and a second 'suspension' item closely related to [[Q1188533]] for the investigation period if required. [21:49:37] 10[2] 10https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1188533 [21:50:26] But that's just my opinion, and I haven't even been here that long, so... [21:51:31] On the topic of finding this old stuff, yeah, a lot of things got lost when they transitioned from worldsnooker.com to wst.tv. :-/ [21:58:53] Yes - the unintended consequences of watching snooker on TV :) [22:05:09] :-) [22:20:51] Thanks for your helpful insights @JAA