[03:41:10] <wm-bot>	 Change on 12meta.wikimedia.org a page Wikidata was modified, changed by Minorax link https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=26209713 edit summary: [+8] 
[16:16:27] <Tom_>	 Heya, trying to understand https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Names
[16:16:47] <Tom_>	 How is https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q101352 family name (Q101352) populated?
[16:17:05] <Tom_>	 Why do some names show up and others don't?
[16:18:16] <Tom_>	 https://forebears.io/ << they claim to have 30M names. Q101352 has ~ 0.6M entries
[16:19:52] <Tom_>	 There's also https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q29042997 (Double names) but ~4K entries seems awfully few to me… 
[16:24:39] <Tom_>	 Also how are the national subclasses defined? Is Hamza or Vargas a "Ukranian surname" https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2635283 ? I'm sure there are Ukranian citizens of that name… Wouldn't that subclass require a full definition of national / cultural identity, which is highly contested?
[16:25:29] <phschafft>	 hm
[16:34:38] <Tom_>	 Also the list of national subcategories is not complete. I couldn't find Nepalese surnames. Why not include historical peoples? "Hunnic Surnames" seems reasonable to have, albeit equally or even more problematic to differentiate as modern national categories.
[16:41:22] * phschafft is not fully sure what Tom_ is trying to ask.
[16:43:50] <Tom_>	 I think multiple things: (1) Just what's the philosophy and ontology behind the categories of people's names and how they should be represented in WD? And (2) given the existing entries into those categories, how does any given name end up there.
[16:54:17] <Tom_>	 E.g. compare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ukrainian_people and https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%3Fitem%20%3FitemLabel%20%20WHERE%20%0A%7B%0A%20%20SERVICE%20bd%3Aslice%20%7B%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ2635283%20.%0A%20%20%20%20bd%3AserviceParam%20bd%3Aslice.offset%200%20.%20%23%20Start%20at%20item%20number%20%28not%20to%20be%20confused%20with%20QID%29%0A%20%20%20%20bd%3AserviceParam
[16:54:17] <Tom_>	 %20bd%3Aslice.limit%2030000%20.%20%23%20List%20this%20many%20items%0A%20%20%7D%0A%20%20SERVICE%20wikibase%3Alabel%20%7B%20bd%3AserviceParam%20wikibase%3Alanguage%20%22%5BAUTO_LANGUAGE%5D%2Cen%22.%20%7D%20%0A%7D
[16:54:38] <Tom_>	 shorter link https://w.wiki/98z8
[16:56:39] <Tom_>	 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimitry_Sydor << Sydor is a child of Category:Ukrainian_people, but doesn't have "Ukranian surname" https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2635283 >> Why?
[17:09:07] <phschafft>	 maybe just nobody added that relation yet?
[17:10:45] <Tom_>	 so there's no automation involved? people have been adding those 0.6M relations all by hand?
[17:12:19] <Tom_>	 And should I add the relation for hamza as a Ukranian surname? What about Putin? How do I know the boundary of the category?
[17:24:33] <Tom_>	 Or take the example Worobetz. en.wp only has https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Worobetz, who is Canadian of Ukranian origin. There's no noteworthy Ukranian citizen known with that name. Should that name be moved to "Canadian Surname", because Canada has the largest population with that name…? https://forebears.io/surnames/worobetz