[19:11:40] lazyirc: do we have a backlog task to audit all of the packages we install on bastions once grid engine is removed? As I recall most of the bastion packages come from being a grid submit node. [19:21:58] bd808: in my head T314665 includes that, but I still neet work out how exactly to decide what to keep and what not to keep. there's likely some stuff in exec_environ that we still need and similarly things in shell_environ that are no longer useful [19:21:59] T314665: Toolforge: Introduce grid-less bookworm based bastion hosts - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T314665 [19:23:04] although I'm hoping to push that task to someone else so I should write my thoughts so far down I think. [19:45:56] taavi: +1 to brain dumps on task. and that is basically the task I was wondering about casually today. thanks [19:47:13] the what to keep question is I think the interesting one. Getting rid of lots of language runtime things seems like it will be a good thing and help actually reduce confusion about bastion vs container execution in the future. [19:55:23] This is a rare opportunity to uninstall a lot of packages and then wait for people to ask for specific things to come back, so maybe we should be picky about what we keep without asking for specific use cases. [19:58:26] yeah, agreed. the big question in my head is Python, since having venv and such installed is occasionally helpful for testing changes to the toolforge infra CLIs. but on the other hand not having it installed on the bastions would make it rather clear that you should not generally be running things on the bastion directly. [19:59:40] Isn't it still pretty much impossible to have a working Debian host without python? [20:00:46] you can have one without the 'venv' tool specifically. [20:01:02] ah, nod [20:02:00] I'd say it is worth trying to say "if you need a venv you need to run from a container" [20:02:21] `webservice python3.x shell` is easy enough to type [20:03:05] I guess that does make actions as me rather than as tool.N a tiny bit more awkward [20:03:45] I think I would personally be ok with that though