[11:43:53] fyi. there's a widespread issue with puppet that is affecting puppet runs on VMs too, we are working on it (you can safely ignore alerts about puppet failures right now) [12:41:37] !log quarry 821283: Switch string and pipe | https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/analytics/quarry/web/+/821283 [12:41:39] Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Quarry/SAL [13:59:17] !log quarry 821344: api: return consistently | https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/analytics/quarry/web/+/821344 [13:59:20] Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Quarry/SAL [16:44:37] Can someone confirm this is a legitimate Wikimedia Foundation account https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/KHernandez-WMF [16:46:32] (I was able to do so via account creation log) [16:50:56] :/ [16:51:24] Was it created by ITS? [16:51:44] 15:40, 11 March 2022 User account KHernandez-WMF talk contribs was created by MRamirez (WMF) talk contribs and password was sent by email [16:52:16] (Is that what OIT is called now?) [16:52:31] Yeah, IT Services [16:52:42] Have we stopped using " (WMF)" suffixes? [16:53:14] Reedy: quite recently I've noticed it [16:53:19] iirc someone said yes since -WMF works better on RTL languages, but take that with a [citation needed] [16:53:32] I could believe that [16:53:42] LTR inside RTL does do some weird things from time to time [16:53:57] Though, I can't help wonder why we haven't renamed others to match too [16:54:57] from internal docs... [16:54:58] >People who work primarily on RTL language projects may choose to use "-WMF" instead of (WMF). [16:55:30] the docs also still seem to suggest " (WMF)" should be the default [16:56:16] I heard too that hyphen-WMF is way friendlier to RTL [16:57:07] I wonder why we're not defaulting to that then [16:57:41] That would make sense [17:40:33] I think ITS is now defaulting to -WMF, but the docs haven't been updated [17:41:02] I found this for OfficeWiki, I assume the same string is used for other wikis https://office.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=newusers [17:41:31] the default changed on Jan, 1st 2022 [17:46:05] this is an (incomplete) list for meta: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=newusers&user=MRamirez+(WMF) [17:47:45] still doesn't use the WMF user and is just fine with it because I never do "office actions" [17:48:05] and that was the only reason to create those.. but the collective memory forgot or so [17:48:24] then people assume they _have_ to use those.. [17:48:45] it's all a mess and has been since 2013 ;) [17:48:49] of course depends if they ever had a wiki user before they started being paid [17:50:04] even more messy is that other affiliates have followed the naming convention without also putting the blocks in place to disallow arbitrary account creation using their chosen suffixes [17:57:58] bd808: ha, that sounds bad! [17:58:23] I did find this policy on my first week, that at least was providing _some_ guidance https://office.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_account_policy [18:00:07] * taavi wonders why those policies are not public [18:00:11] dhinus: most folks in this channel cannot see things on officewiki [18:01:27] taavi: tl;dr is that many of them could be, but then things get goofy as to "which wiki do I document policy X on?" and also "which wiki should I look for a policy about X on" for Foundation staff. [18:01:29] yep I know, I was unsure if copy-pasting the relevant bits, but I'm not sure it's that interesting, so the link was mostly for you, if you had any comment :) [18:03:09] I think actually there's no reason why that policy couldn't live on a public wiki, as I imagine people outside the foundation might wonder "what is the purpose/significance of the -WMF accounts?" [18:04:38] Personally anything that doesn't have to be private should be public [18:05:58] I am pretty confident the only reason is that office wiki is the default for ITS. [18:06:45] if you split it into public and private you get an endless discussion which are the special cases that cant be public. but yea, what RhinosF1 said [18:07:00] Most of the ranting I do about (WMF), -WMF accounts is that we do not need that distinction to follow from the content wikis into technical spaces. The long ago reason for starting the split was the "staff" permissions group on wiki and confusion if an admin action was done via rights granted by that group vs rights granted to the actor by the community. [18:07:20] so docs could be either officewiki or wikitech.. but then for some reason stuff is being added to mediawiki.org instead [18:07:45] I never know what goes on wikitech v mw.org [18:07:50] even when no relation to mediawiki software [18:07:53] I normally end up looking at the wrong one [18:07:57] or meta! and then the realization that both wikitech and mw.o split out of meta at a point in the distant past [18:08:09] imho nothing goes to mediawiki.org unless it's ...well.. about MediaWiki [18:08:21] obviously others see that differently [18:08:33] I'm relieved I'm not the only one confused by too_many_wikis :D [18:08:38] But then there's the fine line for all the non mediawiki stuff that support mediawiki [18:08:38] when I joined in 2013 all of the Foundation tech projects were using mw.o for docs [18:09:04] * TheresNoTime just flips a coin for mw v wikitech [18:09:19] possibly because of a belief at the time that all the code we wrote was related to MediaWiki? Not sure how that started honestly. [18:09:26] dhinus: I've been doing random stuff as a volunteer for 4/5 years and it's normally flip a coin and it'll be the wrong one [18:09:29] then when people realize the split between a handful of wikis.. the solution is to create a new portal page to link to all of them [18:09:50] meta-metawiki? :P [18:11:15] for me the mw/wikitech split is somewhat clear.. wikitech is for tech things specific to wikimedia, and wikitech is for all other tech stuff [18:11:36] hahaha [18:11:57] /me agrees with taavi assuming the second wikitech should be mediawiki :P [18:12:04] correct [18:12:57] https://bash.toolforge.org/quip/IIj1iIIBa_6PSCT9fIYz :p [18:12:58] I assume the Mediawiki foundation will be created and take over the mediawiki.org domain [18:13:05] works for me too, except when the tech stuff is actually end user documentation and the maybe meta :) [18:13:44] mutante: you mean the "Wikimedia Technical Foundation" (WTF) ;) [18:16:09] I honestly don't think that MediaWiki will ever split out into a distinct Foundation. I worked on things related to that in the past, but found it to be a misguided idea. The Wikimedia Foundation is not likely to relinquish control of the MediaWiki product roadmap in the meaningful way that would be needed to produce a truly independent FOSS project. [18:17:09] bd808: lol @ WTF :) [18:18:15] I'd love to take credit for that one, but I got it from eloquence circa 2015. :) [18:19:14] :) [18:30:27] @harej: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:KHernandez-WMF is no longer a redlink. I poked Karen after seeing your question here. [18:30:56] \o/ [18:31:53] * bd808 wonders if it would be useful to write a bot to look for Foundation staff accounts without user pages and send folks gentle nudges [18:32:07] +1 [18:32:38] thanks for volunteering TheresNoTime! ;) [18:32:51] ._. [18:33:22] wouldn't want to steal your thunder, you carry on :> [18:34:27] for accounts... on which wiki? :D [18:35:45] one assumes it'd just be meta [18:37:29] I'm seeing lots of these accounts [18:37:56] 477 [18:38:26] excluding locked accounts? [18:38:42] just user accounts with no user page [18:38:54] do you really want them to all start using those WMF accounts though.. or do you just want them to use wiki in general and separate office actions from regular edits [18:38:54] including "| Lila Tretikov and Jimbo Wales and Grawp and Meepsheep ON WHEELS!!!! (WMF) | [18:38:58] :P [18:39:25] haha [18:39:54] | Grawpy, Hermione, Lila Tretikov, and Hagger on Wheels (WMF) | [18:39:57] doinf it after their first edit seems like a reasonable start [18:40:00] | Hagger and Christophe Henner and Jimbo Wales on Wheels (WMF) | [18:40:53] * Platonides reruns with an editcount filter [18:41:36] 405 [18:41:47] but I wonder if it is correctly excluding those with a user page [18:42:07] Time to open 405 tabs and check? [18:43:01] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:XCollazo-WMF exists but gets listed [18:44:27] oh wait [18:44:50] maybe you can count the log lines in https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=User%3AXCollazo-WMF [18:45:03] * Platonides places brackets around the OR condition [18:45:11] down to 62 [18:45:27] what would also deserve an alert is "a (WMF) user that was not createad by another WMF user" [18:46:00] where was the paste service? [18:46:36] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/paste/ is one [18:46:52] I wasn't thinking on phab, but it works [18:48:27] if the 2FA lets me log in... [18:50:13] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/P32347 [19:10:54] I thought there were technical restrictions preventing that (re @wmtelegram_bot: what would also deserve an alert is "a (WMF) user that was not createad by another WMF user") [19:11:25] https://paste.toolforge.org/ (re @wmtelegram_bot: where was the paste service?) [19:11:53] that was the one I was expecting [19:12:04] had tried paste.wmflabs.org instead [19:51:31] `.*(WMF|WⅯF).* ` in https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Title_blacklist should prevent anyone without rights to bypass the deny list from creating an account with "WMF" anywhere in the name. [20:02:52] though unfortunately not every homoglyph is in antispoof yet still [20:14:43] shouldn't that be on https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mediwiki:Title_blacklist ? [20:19:54] no [20:21:43] that meta page applies globally, loginwiki title blacklist only applies to loginwiki account creations [20:25:25] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TitleBlacklist has a `$wgTitleBlacklistSources` that is used to make the page I linked from meta a source of title blocks on all Wikimedia wikis. (well, almost all we don't apply it to wikis marked as private or fishbowl) [20:27:57] oh right