[03:38:50] <DENelson83>	 Seems TABernacle on Toolforge is having some issues.
[03:45:58] <DENelson83>	 When I open a new TABernacle tab, the page takes a long time to recognize my OAuth token to grant me editing access, saying "log in to edit" if I try to edit something with it immediately upon loading.
[03:46:38] <DENelson83>	 Then when it finally sees my OAuth token and proceed to edit something, it takes a long time to acknowledge my edits.
[04:26:22] <DENelson83>	 And it now appears the problem has resolved itself.
[14:49:03] <andrewbogott>	 !log wikitextexp deleting shutdown Stretch VMs wikitextexp-base-1002 and wikitextexp-expt-1002
[14:49:05] <stashbot>	 Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Wikitextexp/SAL
[16:24:40] <wm-bb>	 <MaartenDammers> Who is Seyram Komla Sapaty and why is this person putting Phabricator tasks on my name (and other people) without consulting them? This is a direct violation of https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bug_management/Phabricator_etiquette .
[16:25:03] <komla>	 That's me
[16:26:25] <komla>	 Apologies for this. The intention was to create individual tickets for all tools still running on GridEngine. So that we can track their migration work to Kubernetes.
[16:27:19] <komla>	 I should have given the maintainers a heads up before proceeding with the ticket creation. 
[16:28:59] <wm-bb>	 <MaartenDammers> Not informing maintainers beforehand was the first mistake. No way to solve that now. You can correct the second mistake by going through https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T314664 and removing the assigned person
[16:32:36] <RhinosF1>	 I don't believe that's correct at all
[16:32:52] <RhinosF1>	 Most tools have a single owner so it's perfectly appropriate in this case
[16:33:16] <wm-bb>	 <MaartenDammers> Which part of "Only manually assign a task to someone if they have given their prior agreement. It is up to developers (or their product managers) what they plan to work on." is unclear to you? (re @wmtelegram_bot: <RhinosF1> Most tools have a single owner so it's perfectly appropriate in this case)
[16:33:48] <RhinosF1>	 There is only 1 person who can work on most tools though
[16:34:00] <RhinosF1>	 Common sense comes first
[16:34:51] <RhinosF1>	 And if you are going to be uptight about it, I'm quite happy to propose amending it
[16:41:28] <wm-bb>	 <MaartenDammers> Yes, I object to people dumping work on my plate especially if it's paid staff doing that. 
[16:41:29] <wm-bb>	 <MaartenDammers> It's not very respectful of you to call me uptight.
[16:43:09] <wm-bb>	 <MaartenDammers> In case anyone forgot, this channel is covered by https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct
[16:46:50] <andrewbogott>	 MaartenDammers, WMCS staff frequently 'assign' tasks to volunteers when necessary to comply with maintenance or security issues. I'm interested in your thoughts (and RhinosF1's) about if we should do that some way other than on phabricator...
[16:47:17] <RhinosF1>	 If you'd like me to remove you from the ones assigned to you (either as subscriber or assigned person), I'm happy to do that if komla doesn't have batch perms.
[16:47:55] <RhinosF1>	 andrewbogott: I guess you could email people on a per tool basis but personally phab is better than email. I get too many emails.
[16:48:39] <wm-bb>	 <MaartenDammers> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T319813 has multiple maintainers, why did it get assigned to me?
[16:48:39] <wm-bb>	 <MaartenDammers> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T320198 has a whole list, why did it get assigned to someone who is rarely active?
[16:49:02] <RhinosF1>	 Rarely active doesn't mean they aren't the only maintainer of something
[16:49:02] <JJMC89>	 Even the tasks for tools with multiple maintainers, were assigned to a random? maintainer. One was assigned to me, which I will not be doing anything with.
[16:49:30] <RhinosF1>	 I see the issue with tasks with more than 1 maintainer that random person isn't helpful
[16:49:52] <wm-bb>	 <MaartenDammers> You notify the maintainer. If for stuff for myself I only assign it when I start working on it (re @wmtelegram_bot: <andrewbogott> MaartenDammers, WMCS staff frequently 'assign' tasks to volunteers when necessary to comply with maintenance or s...)
[16:49:55] <RhinosF1>	 If anyone wants batch unassigns ran for them, I will help with that.
[16:50:05] <andrewbogott>	 I agree that that random assignee is a bit of an issue (a side effect of phab only allowing one assignee at a time)
[16:50:16] <andrewbogott>	 But IMO if you do not want to participate in maintenance of a tool or VPS project you should remove yourself as maintainer (and accept the fact that in that case the tool or project may change or be deleted in your absence).
[16:51:12] <wm-bb>	 <MaartenDammers> You seem to be mixing up subscriber and assignee. Maintainers should always be added as subscriber. The person who picks it up assigns it (re @wmtelegram_bot: <andrewbogott> But IMO if you do not want to participate in maintenance of a tool or VPS project you should remove yourself as m...)
[16:52:05] <andrewbogott>	 MaartenDammers, ok, yes, now I'm on the same page :)  If your only concern is with being marked as assignee (and you think that subscribee is fine) then I don't disagree.
[16:52:10] <andrewbogott>	 komla, does ^ make sense?
[16:52:14] <JJMC89>	 For me, I have access to the tool to help with debugging one specific item that is run from it. I have nothing with everything else the tool runs.
[16:52:55] <andrewbogott>	 JJMC89: that's a good point... in cloud-vps we have a concept of 'member' and 'projectadmin' as different roles, I guess we don't really have that in toolforge
[16:58:11] <komla>	 Yes, Andrew
[16:59:28] <wm-bb>	 <MaartenDammers> Haha, ok. I was confused by your initial response. I use subscribers all the time. (re @wmtelegram_bot: <andrewbogott> MaartenDammers, ok, yes, now I'm on the same page :)  If your only concern is with being marked as assignee (and ...)
[17:06:52] <wm-bb>	 <MaartenDammers> Did you consider making a docker image that supports pywikibot without venv out of the box?
[17:08:27] <wm-bb>	 <MaartenDammers> Or does https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Toolforge/Pywikibot need to be updated? I see we have https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/diffusion/ODIT/browse/master/python39-sssd/pwb/Dockerfile.template
[17:08:43] <andrewbogott>	 !log wikidocumentaries deleting long shutoff Stretch VMs hupu and roope
[17:08:45] <stashbot>	 Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Wikidocumentaries/SAL
[17:09:37] <andrewbogott>	 !log wikidata-history-query-service deleting long shutoff Stretch VM wdhqs-1
[17:09:37] <stashbot>	 Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Wikidata-history-query-service/SAL
[17:09:40] <taavi>	 yes, T249787. iirc the last time someone (bd808) was working on that I was concerned on how to manage the pywikibot version in a way that doesn't break anyones code without warning but still lets us offer an up-to-date versions
[17:09:41] <stashbot>	 T249787: Create Docker image for Toolforge that is purpose built to run pywikibot scripts - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T249787
[17:10:31] <andrewbogott>	 !log wikiapiary deleting long shutoff Stretch VM pub2
[17:10:31] <stashbot>	 Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Wikiapiary/SAL
[17:11:09] <andrewbogott>	 !log traffic deleting long shutoff Stretch VM traffic-ncredir
[17:11:10] <stashbot>	 Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Traffic/SAL
[17:12:12] <andrewbogott>	 !log search deleting long shutoff Stretch VMs relforge-search and wdsearch2
[17:12:13] <stashbot>	 Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Search/SAL
[17:12:54] <andrewbogott>	 !log sciencesource deleting long shutoff Stretch VM wikibase-scisrc
[17:12:55] <stashbot>	 Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Sciencesource/SAL
[17:13:00] <wm-bb>	 <MaartenDammers> Yes. That's an issue. You could link each image to a specific branch? (re @wmtelegram_bot: <taavi> yes, T249787. iirc the last time someone (bd808) was working on that I was concerned on how to manage the pywikibot vers...)
[17:13:48] <andrewbogott>	 !log packagist-mirror deleting long shutoff Stretch VM packagist-mirror1
[17:13:49] <stashbot>	 Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Packagist-mirror/SAL
[17:13:59] <wm-bb>	 <MaartenDammers> JF, didn't you something in this direction for one of the tools?
[17:14:42] <andrewbogott>	 !log osmit deleting long shutoff Stretch VM osmit-umap
[17:14:42] <stashbot>	 Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Osmit/SAL
[17:15:03] <taavi>	 PWB uses SemVer, right? I guess one option would be to offer images like python39-pwb7 for 7.x, -pwb8 for 8.x and so on
[17:15:12] <andrewbogott>	 !log mwstake deleting long shutoff Stretch VM mwstake
[17:15:12] <stashbot>	 Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Mwstake/SAL
[17:15:41] <andrewbogott>	 !log mix-n-match deleting long shutoff Stretch VM mixnmatch
[17:15:42] <stashbot>	 Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Mix-n-match/SAL
[17:16:30] <andrewbogott>	 !log getstarted deleting long shutoff Stretch VMs gitservices and webservices
[17:16:30] <stashbot>	 Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Getstarted/SAL
[17:17:02] <andrewbogott>	 !log extdist deleting long shutoff Stretch VM extdist-04
[17:17:03] <stashbot>	 Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Extdist/SAL
[17:17:38] <wm-bb>	 <MaartenDammers> And python39-pwb-stable / python39-pwb-current for the lazy maintainers? 😊 (re @wmtelegram_bot: <taavi> PWB uses SemVer, right? I guess one option would be to offer images like python39-pwb7 for 7.x, -pwb8 for 8.x and so on)
[17:17:57] <andrewbogott>	 !log discourse deleting long shutoff Stretch VM discuss-space
[17:17:57] <stashbot>	 Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Discourse/SAL
[17:18:44] <andrewbogott>	 !log commonsarchive deleting long shutoff Stretch VM commonsarchive-prod
[17:18:45] <stashbot>	 Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Commonsarchive/SAL
[17:18:53] <andrewbogott>	 OK, I think I'm done logging for a while, sorry about all the noise!
[17:21:54] <taavi>	 something like that, yeah
[17:22:11] <wm-bb>	 <MaartenDammers> Online equivalent of vacuuming I guess? Clean up needs to happen (re @wmtelegram_bot: <andrewbogott> OK, I think I'm done logging for a while, sorry about all the noise!)
[17:22:45] <andrewbogott>	 Yeah, trying to finish up with Stretch deprecation which is long overdue
[17:22:48] <taavi>	 mind if I copy this discussion to the phab task? it seems like Raymond was planning to work on that soon
[17:25:39] <wm-bb>	 <MaartenDammers> (not sure if that crosses the bridge, but fine with me)
[17:25:39] <wm-bb>	 <MaartenDammers> I'll leave comment on it too what my usage would be
[17:26:30] <AntiComposite>	 message reactions don't cross the bridge
[18:12:36] <wm-bb>	 <MaartenDammers> I left some comments on the task. Hope it's useful. I can test if you have a new image (re @wmtelegram_bot: <taavi> mind if I copy this discussion to the phab task? it seems like Raymond was planning to work on that soon)
[18:17:54] <wm-bot>	 !log tools.lexeme-forms <lucaswerkmeister> deployed a829f83124 (l10n updates: ca, hi, sh, sl)
[18:17:56] <stashbot>	 Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Tools.lexeme-forms/SAL
[21:15:31] <kindrobot>	 Hello friends,
[21:16:29] <kindrobot>	 I'm working with abstract wikipedia to set up end-to-end tests. Wikifunctions are both a mediawiki extension and a set of microservices.
[21:17:39] <kindrobot>	 My question is, if I want to set up a clean environment for e2e tests for each patch pushed to gerrit, would you recommend using the toolforge k8s cluster, a Cloud VPS project, or something else?
[21:59:43] <wm-bb>	 <MaartenDammers> That sounds more like the integration tests
[22:05:02] <wm-bb>	 <MaartenDammers> Like https://integration.wikimedia.org/ci/view/All/